Thanks to Aputure for providing the new lights for Adam's workshop! The lights we used are as follows: Amaran F22c: amzn.to/4c3KZWD Amaran T2c: amzn.to/3xogETJ Amaran T4c: amzn.to/3KJ0jvU Amaran 200x: amzn.to/45qDVB8 Aputure 60x: amzn.to/45IWWPv Aputure Nova P300c: amzn.to/3RuGUCW Disclosure: Tested may earn a commission on items purchased through the above links.
It was great to meet Joey, and I'm so glad Adam let Joey explain what they were doing. His expertise and enthusiasm really came across. I love hearing people discuss what they do with such passion, its why I follow Adam in the first place. I'd look forward to any updates as the team settles in, and starts to play around with the new system. I actually found this a lot more interesting than I expected to. Thanks, Adam, Joey, and the rest of the team!
@@EasyMac308 Great minds, as they say! It's precisely how I decided to store + dsplay my collection of antique anvils! A little bit of bailin' twine and some tie wire... and we're rockin' and rollin. Easy peasy.
I imagine all of these ideas (Knives, Bowling balls, Anvils, etc) make for great event spaces to host your kids parties. Just imagine their delight as they oww and aww at your collections so skillfully suspended over their heads. The neighborhood parents will be surprised with emotion when they review the photos after each event. 😅
LOL Joey's been on the team (and in front of the camera) for yeeeeeeears. It's just that since the lockdowns the format of Tested videos have changed to put Adam front in center of almost all, whereas it used to be Adam was in like 10% of the videos.
As a Hollywood set lighting technician, I am so happy that you let Joey do a full walkthrough of the lighting setup and describe the methods you used to make this happen. Excellent work to the whole team!
I think your biggest challenge will be Adam's impromptu moments of "Let me show you...". He has a beautifully chaotic and fluid way of moving around the cave that creates an organic authenticity to his videos. We really don't want to that lose that just because of lighting is too specific to the shot.
I love this sorta stuff and can listen to Joey's ideas on lighting all day. I was not expecting that and am 100% grateful for it. I too hate the discomfort of long hours in studio lighting and have fought this battle on the small scale with my personal streaming setup. It is not easy to balance what LOOKS good and what FEELS good when it comes to lighting a space for extended shoots.
Wow Joey is the man! He did a GREAT job explaining everything. As I get further into middle age, I've been finding myself headed down the rabbit hole of photography, so I found it rather interesting that I had some idea of what Joey was talking about and it wasn't all a foreign language. That means I've been learning new things, and this video confirmed it! Yay for me! And lets just say it now... Joey needs his own RUclips channel about something he's passionate about; whether that's photography and lighting, or anything else that excites him. He has an infectious enthusiasm that is important to a good RUclips channel.
Nicely done. There are those who will tell you with total confidence that good lighting is all about getting plenty of light spread evenly throughout the space. That's fine if you're recreating the atmosphere of a soviet era clinic. Good lighting is really about knowing where to put the shadows.
Really interesting to hear Joey's thought process when it comes to lighting setup, different factors for different cameras etc. Now I love watching Adam's videos, but listening to Joey I realise I'd also love to see some content, perhaps even in the members section, where the crew could add commentary to a video on what their processes were when it comes to editing, lighting, filming, music etc... Maybe not for every video, but for some of the bigger projects, special items or more difficult shoots....
Very cool to learn about lighting and the thoughts going into it. I hope that you bring Joey back and do a tutorial, take a little more time to explain the concepts, give us some demos of the effects he was talking about. He sounds Super knowledgeable and could teach us so much.
Ha! Love it...I did this in a much more lower scale in my 3rd NYC apartment - mine was a figure 8 in pvc pipe. And extremely less efficient ear singeing clip lights with old timey 100 watt bulbs above my easel
Anyone know the original lighting video he refers to at the beginning of this one? I can't find it on the channel and it's not linked in the description but I love watching shop infrastructure vids!
"Adams Confort".... I totallly agree with the ABC's of all things. In this case A - Always B - Be C - Comfortable So you are not having to fight your environment when you are doing highly skilled activities.
Great explanation, Joey. I appreciate all the detail that you described and how things are set up for lighting such an area for video shooting. Very informative. Cheers.
The music selection, editing, fades on Tested are absolutely the best I've ever heard on youTube. I have never heard a clip here that isn't something I might have chosen myself, regardless of genre.
I hope to see a video where viewers can see how the lighting changes enhance/improve the videos not only entertainment purposes but also how the lighting improves working conditions. While I don’t film my operations I often am concerned about how proper light could improve my work space. I
I always assumed the Cave was as densely packed to the rafters as it was at eye level. I bet the grid is going to end up supporting more things than lights.
Was I the only one giving an eye raise the moment that Joey popped on the screen? I was like…. Wait a minute…. And glanced to see what I had tapped. Lol… 😅
Cool. Now I want light panels for my workspace. Daylight coming from a single source can really mess lighting up. In the summer, the sun comes directly through the window on the side before it sets and it is basically impossible for me to see anything on the "shadow side" of things - Even with the ceiling lights turned on.
Unless the rig all raises once youve set it up, isnt it a bit low? It looks like the lights would be visible in camera when Adams filming.. They also look low enough that id be aware of them.. I wouldnt hit my head but theyd only be less than a foot above my head, and that would feel claustraphobic..
I appreciate you giving a warning about hanging stuff on the ceiling as I had a really close call when I was a kid. My dad built a winch to lift a pickup truck bed cover to the ceiling of his barn for storage. About 3/4 of the way up the cables slipped out of the clamps and it hit the ground 2 feet from where I was standing!! Very scary.
love it. I like the changeability, and customization aspects. The one thing I would say I'm not 100% on, the lights seem lower slung than I would like. It seems like walking in there would have more of a Set feeling. And when it comes to Adam's comfort, it might seem more "going to work" feeling. I get that you're trying to add light to that low ceiling area, but maybe there are other options... It might just be my perspective, I certainly own that. It looks like a great set up. Thanks for taking us along for the ride!
I think that as Adam is used to working on a set that after just a few days he will "not see" the lighting. Especially as the LD is sympathetic to Adams requirements of it being a work space. I found that when you first arrive on a set you look everywhere. Then when the work starts you concentrate on the job in hand and everything else is forgotten. Unless you are a boom op then your troubles begin.
Always a delight and an informative session with Joey-- I am surprised that there are not several motorized heads-- clusters along the north/south or east/west axis-- so that you could pour a lot of light on a particular table or work area. Even for some beauty shots of projects.
Motorized light movers incur a much much higher budget and need to invest in much more complicated control systems. Not nearly as simple and budget friendly as what you see here.
@@shadowshapers Well, sure-- and what you're seeing right then is not cheap. Like Joey, but with less presence, I don't care what it costs, I only care what it looks like. Maybe another partnership!
@@MrChief101 Call up Arri/Clay Packy and see if they want to sponsor putting their new Skypanel X motorized yoke in as a case study here! haha And a Chamsys lighting console programmer to set up a MagicQ console with some magic sheets programmed for easy use to boot!
Why can’t you attach white foam core between the ceiling joists and direct light up into it so that the light reflects down? Is that not a thing? Just curious as it seems like a way to add tons of light without the bulk of things hanging below the ceiling with the exception of strategically placed spotlights.
Kind of surprised that Adam doesn't have some sort of Marius Hornberger ceiling-rig-on-rails going on. Seems like the kind of 'use the vertical' gadget that he'd love.
I got given a heap of led tubes to go in the workshop and they're great, super bright and efficient for my off grid solar rig. They're creating a lot of shadows and can be a problem with glare/dazzle. Is there anything i can put over the twin tube fittings to soften the light and reduce the shadows? Not for filming, just for working and being able to see detailed things clearly without throwing shadow from being so bright. They're only 18w 1200mm 4000k tubes but there's a lot of them as i need to cover a lot of machines and work benches. They're up around 3.5m on the ceiling. Any constructive advice welcomed. Cheers!
Not to beat the proverbial comment horse here, but this is awesome content. Please keep the "in the weeds" deep dives coming, and great to see Joey take the helm!
Great video . Fantastic channel love the upgrades to your shop. I'm only suggesting not criticism but your machine shop has lots of roof space I wonder could a mezzanine be but there and you could turn that into a wood shop. Again fantastic channel all the best.
AAADDDAAAAAMMMMMM!!! ADAM ADAM ADAM!! I can't afford to be patreon but I have a very important question. I'm currently sitting in my little maker shop on a 5 gallon bucket of sealer. But MY BUTT DESERVES BETTER! Could you spend some time talking about the ins and outs of proper shop seating?!??
I have a question. The term Kelvin was used to describe the lighting at a certain. It was said Adam likes the lighting at 3800 I think and that was warmer light then a setting in the 4000s. I know the Kelvin temperature scale and that a 3800 Kelvin is colder than 400 Kelvin. So I am guessing this is a different Kelvin scale. Can anyone clarify this for me?
This light setup will get into your field of view.. And that’s super annoying. Why not just bounce light up to the roof? Maybe paint it white? That should increase the ambient in an incredibly soft way. Then you can put large gridded box lights over the work surfaces. Which should have the secondary effect of bringing the foreground a stop higher.
Thanks to Aputure for providing the new lights for Adam's workshop! The lights we used are as follows:
Amaran F22c: amzn.to/4c3KZWD
Amaran T2c: amzn.to/3xogETJ
Amaran T4c: amzn.to/3KJ0jvU
Amaran 200x: amzn.to/45qDVB8
Aputure 60x: amzn.to/45IWWPv
Aputure Nova P300c: amzn.to/3RuGUCW
Disclosure: Tested may earn a commission on items purchased through the above links.
It was great to meet Joey, and I'm so glad Adam let Joey explain what they were doing.
His expertise and enthusiasm really came across.
I love hearing people discuss what they do with such passion, its why I follow Adam in the first place.
I'd look forward to any updates as the team settles in, and starts to play around with the new system.
I actually found this a lot more interesting than I expected to.
Thanks, Adam, Joey, and the rest of the team!
I'd like to meet the person who does the music-selection and editing. Every selection is a little gem, and the fade-ins/outs frame them superbly.
@@-danR Oh, each video contains who edited it in teh caption, and whoever edited picked the music. All videos are edited by Joey, Josh or Norm.
How lovely! Thank you!
I love hearing experts discuss their craft. Joey is clearly passionate about the lighting in this shop
I learned so much from this video! I'm using your exact method to hang my kitchen knife collection (1,500 sharpened pointy knives) from my ceiling.
I set up a grid to hang my collection of 16 pound bowling balls, it was a super helpful instructional video!
Project Farm just did a drop test with kitchen knives. You might want to check that out.
😂😂😂
@@EasyMac308 Great minds, as they say! It's precisely how I decided to store + dsplay my collection of antique anvils!
A little bit of bailin' twine and some tie wire... and we're rockin' and rollin. Easy peasy.
I imagine all of these ideas (Knives, Bowling balls, Anvils, etc) make for great event spaces to host your kids parties. Just imagine their delight as they oww and aww at your collections so skillfully suspended over their heads. The neighborhood parents will be surprised with emotion when they review the photos after each event. 😅
Haha! I read that quickly as “How Adam Savage get’s lit before his workshop filming builds” That would have also been an interesting video
lol they should change the title to "Let''s Get Lit!"
This is what I want to see!
He likes Bundaberg Ginger Beer, I wonder if he's a fan of Bundaberg Rum?
Can you IMAGINE the sort of bong that would come out of tested labs!?!?!
@@grahamwilliams7260 I'm imagining some steampunk-esqu contraption of steel, brass and wood.
Hey Adam, Joey was fun with passion and personality. Good job Joey and cudos to you Adam for taking the chance to put him in front of the camera.
LOL Joey's been on the team (and in front of the camera) for yeeeeeeears. It's just that since the lockdowns the format of Tested videos have changed to put Adam front in center of almost all, whereas it used to be Adam was in like 10% of the videos.
As a set lighting technician, this episode makes me very happy.
Hi, Joey! I was not expecting an American Cinematographer magazine-level of detail of the new lighting grid setup. Fantastic work, Adam and Joey!
Wow ceilings are much taller than I was expecting!
That man knows lights. I’ve never really put that much thought in lighting for filming before. Helped me view it as a true art form
As a Hollywood set lighting technician, I am so happy that you let Joey do a full walkthrough of the lighting setup and describe the methods you used to make this happen. Excellent work to the whole team!
I love seeing people talking about things they’re passionate about.
Great looking setup!
I would look at putting some lights on the bottom of workbenches and use the concrete to bounce some slight fill.
I think your biggest challenge will be Adam's impromptu moments of "Let me show you...". He has a beautifully chaotic and fluid way of moving around the cave that creates an organic authenticity to his videos. We really don't want to that lose that just because of lighting is too specific to the shot.
I love this sorta stuff and can listen to Joey's ideas on lighting all day. I was not expecting that and am 100% grateful for it. I too hate the discomfort of long hours in studio lighting and have fought this battle on the small scale with my personal streaming setup. It is not easy to balance what LOOKS good and what FEELS good when it comes to lighting a space for extended shoots.
Wow Joey is the man! He did a GREAT job explaining everything. As I get further into middle age, I've been finding myself headed down the rabbit hole of photography, so I found it rather interesting that I had some idea of what Joey was talking about and it wasn't all a foreign language. That means I've been learning new things, and this video confirmed it! Yay for me! And lets just say it now... Joey needs his own RUclips channel about something he's passionate about; whether that's photography and lighting, or anything else that excites him. He has an infectious enthusiasm that is important to a good RUclips channel.
Thanks Joey. I didnt realize how involved this show was behind the scenes. Nice work.
Nicely done. There are those who will tell you with total confidence that good lighting is all about getting plenty of light spread evenly throughout the space. That's fine if you're recreating the atmosphere of a soviet era clinic. Good lighting is really about knowing where to put the shadows.
The more I learn about the video production tech, the more invested I am in watching how you guys pull it off every day. pretty cool. XO
Really interesting to hear Joey's thought process when it comes to lighting setup, different factors for different cameras etc.
Now I love watching Adam's videos, but listening to Joey I realise I'd also love to see some content, perhaps even in the members section, where the crew could add commentary to a video on what their processes were when it comes to editing, lighting, filming, music etc... Maybe not for every video, but for some of the bigger projects, special items or more difficult shoots....
Not just distributed - redundant one might say! Makes me happy on the inside!
this was fascinating to watch and hear the behind the scenes of lighting!! greatly enjoyed. that seems soo interesting and fun to play with
Good to see a overall view of Adam's cave.
I love the Sidus Link app. It lets me set my lighting while I’m at my table and on camera. Great for a 1 man shop!
Very cool to learn about lighting and the thoughts going into it. I hope that you bring Joey back and do a tutorial, take a little more time to explain the concepts, give us some demos of the effects he was talking about. He sounds Super knowledgeable and could teach us so much.
Oh, there are lots of videos on Tested featuring Joey ... Perhaps we need to do a playlist!
@@tested Really? That's Fantastic NEWS... Yes Please!
I would just like to take a moment to appreciate the periodic table of tools
i was looking for a way to hang a running chainsaw. thanks for the tips!
Great to see Joey in the video he has some great energy and is engaging.
Ha! Love it...I did this in a much more lower scale in my 3rd NYC apartment - mine was a figure 8 in pvc pipe. And extremely less efficient ear singeing clip lights with old timey 100 watt bulbs above my easel
Looks great, but.... where's the spotlights on the disco ball?!?
I'm currently doing the same thing in mine. Which is only about 16 by maybe 8. Just have to finish the sheet rock ceiling.
Anyone know the original lighting video he refers to at the beginning of this one? I can't find it on the channel and it's not linked in the description but I love watching shop infrastructure vids!
What it takes, to make it look easy. Great job Joey and Adam.
"Adams Confort".... I totallly agree with the ABC's of all things.
In this case
A - Always
B - Be
C - Comfortable
So you are not having to fight your environment when you are doing highly skilled activities.
More Joey on Tested 🥳 He is such a positive person
I have my workspace dialed in about 4400k. It's a nice happy medium.
Great explanation, Joey. I appreciate all the detail that you described and how things are set up for lighting such an area for video shooting. Very informative. Cheers.
Alot of RUclips channels i watch say "this is not a how to channel this is a How we are doing it channel" .. i think its a good saying for YT
A little insight & behind the scenes at the cave. At the risk of sounding a little punny, I now feel illuminated. Thanks for the share. :)
Always good to see Joey in The Cave.
"I just realized something I need to worry about" could be my motto in life lol
Happy to catch a video this quickly after posting!! Looking forward to this look into production :)
What an amazing spot to create! Fantastic!
Daayum, the music choices in even just the first 5 minutes of this vid! Stellar! There's some damm effective non-royalty stuff out there!
The music selection, editing, fades on Tested are absolutely the best I've ever heard on youTube. I have never heard a clip here that isn't something I might have chosen myself, regardless of genre.
@@-danR Wow, again, thank you for your comment@ Most kind!
Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know! We appreciate it.
I hope to see a video where viewers can see how the lighting changes enhance/improve the videos not only entertainment purposes but also how the lighting improves working conditions. While I don’t film my operations I often am concerned about how proper light could improve my work space. I
It will be interesting to see the ambient choices of different video topics or formats.
I always assumed the Cave was as densely packed to the rafters as it was at eye level. I bet the grid is going to end up supporting more things than lights.
Was I the only one giving an eye raise the moment that Joey popped on the screen? I was like…. Wait a minute…. And glanced to see what I had tapped. Lol… 😅
I really liked this video! I absolutely love how the shop looks with the party mode on. Makes me want to improve my own work space lighting!
Woah, this never happens, Hello Adam and TESTED Team!!! Cheers and have a great day!
We already know your workshop is lit AF.
There's no need to brag.
This episode was ............. wait for it ............. enlightening. 😁🤘
The music in this was great. It felt very much like The Thomas Crown Affair.
Very nice addition. So we now expect even more awesome stuff. Let’s go. Chop. Chop. 😂. I always love your content Adam.
Cheers.
Adum your are the best person from the discovery show mythBusters hope everything’s doing well for you and your own independent studio
Cool. Now I want light panels for my workspace. Daylight coming from a single source can really mess lighting up. In the summer, the sun comes directly through the window on the side before it sets and it is basically impossible for me to see anything on the "shadow side" of things - Even with the ceiling lights turned on.
I like working in the dark. It adds drama to my life.
Unless the rig all raises once youve set it up, isnt it a bit low? It looks like the lights would be visible in camera when Adams filming..
They also look low enough that id be aware of them.. I wouldnt hit my head but theyd only be less than a foot above my head, and that would feel claustraphobic..
I wonder how long it will take Adam to get used to the rails hanging there so he doesn't smack them with tall stuff he's carrying around? :-).
Those rails did seem awfully low to me. Kind of in your face.
I'll be honest. I thought the beginning was brighter than normal.
Plus the cave is WAY brighter then Pre-2020 when it was really dark.
I appreciate you giving a warning about hanging stuff on the ceiling as I had a really close call when I was a kid. My dad built a winch to lift a pickup truck bed cover to the ceiling of his barn for storage. About 3/4 of the way up the cables slipped out of the clamps and it hit the ground 2 feet from where I was standing!! Very scary.
So impressive Joey. How much formal training vs. "trial by error/home schooled"?
Only Adam could have an upside down head with tentacles from i think the film Thing hanging up , Brilliant just brilliant .
How do you not run into those clamps!?!
Love the show and setup. Why Adam makes the big bucks with face tracking 7:00 😂❤
Really informative video on set lighting. Great! Thanks! 😊
I always try hang stuff by myself and it never goes well but I seem unable to learn my lesson and get help when doing it.
love it. I like the changeability, and customization aspects. The one thing I would say I'm not 100% on, the lights seem lower slung than I would like. It seems like walking in there would have more of a Set feeling. And when it comes to Adam's comfort, it might seem more "going to work" feeling. I get that you're trying to add light to that low ceiling area, but maybe there are other options... It might just be my perspective, I certainly own that. It looks like a great set up. Thanks for taking us along for the ride!
I think that as Adam is used to working on a set that after just a few days he will "not see" the lighting. Especially as the LD is sympathetic to Adams requirements of it being a work space.
I found that when you first arrive on a set you look everywhere. Then when the work starts you concentrate on the job in hand and everything else is forgotten. Unless you are a boom op then your troubles begin.
Always a delight and an informative session with Joey-- I am surprised that there are not several motorized heads-- clusters along the north/south or east/west axis-- so that you could pour a lot of light on a particular table or work area. Even for some beauty shots of projects.
Motorized light movers incur a much much higher budget and need to invest in much more complicated control systems. Not nearly as simple and budget friendly as what you see here.
@@shadowshapers Well, sure-- and what you're seeing right then is not cheap. Like Joey, but with less presence, I don't care what it costs, I only care what it looks like. Maybe another partnership!
@@MrChief101 Call up Arri/Clay Packy and see if they want to sponsor putting their new Skypanel X motorized yoke in as a case study here! haha And a Chamsys lighting console programmer to set up a MagicQ console with some magic sheets programmed for easy use to boot!
Why can’t you attach white foam core between the ceiling joists and direct light up into it so that the light reflects down? Is that not a thing? Just curious as it seems like a way to add tons of light without the bulk of things hanging below the ceiling with the exception of strategically placed spotlights.
Enjoyed watching it was enlightening ! Ty for sharing
Ah, well done.
Some of the low ceiling areas remind me of close-quarters industrial areas of space craft from several films.
Adam's shop is lit
Kind of surprised that Adam doesn't have some sort of Marius Hornberger ceiling-rig-on-rails going on. Seems like the kind of 'use the vertical' gadget that he'd love.
I got given a heap of led tubes to go in the workshop and they're great, super bright and efficient for my off grid solar rig.
They're creating a lot of shadows and can be a problem with glare/dazzle.
Is there anything i can put over the twin tube fittings to soften the light and reduce the shadows?
Not for filming, just for working and being able to see detailed things clearly without throwing shadow from being so bright.
They're only 18w 1200mm 4000k tubes but there's a lot of them as i need to cover a lot of machines and work benches.
They're up around 3.5m on the ceiling.
Any constructive advice welcomed.
Cheers!
Oh, and 1600lm per tube
Not to beat the proverbial comment horse here, but this is awesome content. Please keep the "in the weeds" deep dives coming, and great to see Joey take the helm!
Appreciate that -- thank you!
Adam will you be doing incognito costume walk at the Denver fan expo in July?
Great video . Fantastic channel love the upgrades to your shop. I'm only suggesting not criticism but your machine shop has lots of roof space I wonder could a mezzanine be but there and you could turn that into a wood shop. Again fantastic channel all the best.
Anyway to make sections through ceiling box displays for your spacecrafts?
I don't think I've ever fully grasped just how high that ceiling is 😅
Delightful build and very illuminating. Place for you all to shine. P
Is there any reason why you did not install a drop ceiling/mezzanine for extra storage then directly mount the light. Seems like a 2 story space.
When did you build that Model Plane? Does it really fly? Is it an RC plans? Is there a video about it?
So I'm assuming that the roof is wood with tar on top? Do you ever get leaks considering the age of the building?
AAADDDAAAAAMMMMMM!!! ADAM ADAM ADAM!! I can't afford to be patreon but I have a very important question. I'm currently sitting in my little maker shop on a 5 gallon bucket of sealer. But MY BUTT DESERVES BETTER! Could you spend some time talking about the ins and outs of proper shop seating?!??
That is a LOT of Z-axis!
I have not yet seen a single sprinkler line on the ceiling.... I really hope its just not visible, but in good working order and in place.
Who knew lighting was so complicated 😮
Right? And yet.
Love this video. Super informative. Thanks, Joey!
The workshop is lit ,well.
i just wonder how long until they are covered in dust and and dirt
Those District 9 guns hanging on the ceiling.... Did you work on those props?! AWESOME!!!!
No, those are acquisitions -- Adam did not work on that film-- he was filming MythBusters when it came out.
That is a nice big ladder.
Hell yeah buddy great job!
So with the Aluminum ceiling frame can you also attach cameras for some new shooting angles?
Definitely possible!
I would have just put led strips across all the beams and called it there. XD you wanna get fancy, you could use addressable, and go disco inferno.
So I have a question for Joey, Kristen, Norm, etc all. How is Adam to work for? (Please be honest).
I have a question. The term Kelvin was used to describe the lighting at a certain. It was said Adam likes the lighting at 3800 I think and that was warmer light then a setting in the 4000s. I know the Kelvin temperature scale and that a 3800 Kelvin is colder than 400 Kelvin. So I am guessing this is a different Kelvin scale. Can anyone clarify this for me?
This really is lit!
Adam! Keep the crap❣️ It makes the overhead interesting. 🙏🏼
This light setup will get into your field of view.. And that’s super annoying.
Why not just bounce light up to the roof? Maybe paint it white? That should increase the ambient in an incredibly soft way.
Then you can put large gridded box lights over the work surfaces. Which should have the secondary effect of bringing the foreground a stop higher.