The Most Controversial Tutor in Magic! CEDH Podcast Episode 28: Rhystic Tutor
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- This week we talk about one of the most controversial tutors in Magic: Rhystic Tutor. This card has a built in ability that allows your opponents to stop you! There's no way this card can be good for CEDH... right?
Thank you to CEDH legend Sergio Navarro for this week's recommendation!
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I love it when my counterspell is stapled to my opponent's card.
I wonder if the heuristic of "Don't counter the tutor, counter what they tutor for" pushes veteran players to pay for this less often
I thought this too, but in this case you don't go down a card by paying, so I think it's probably best to counter the tutor?
@@eoy5006 pay the 2 to go down more mana than a regular counter costs most of the time in cEDH?
Half of the time I'm tutoring for protection for the next combo turn. Doesnt really matter which one you want to fight over honestly
@@davidreeves4165 fighting over the protection piece means you (often) can't retutor for it with another tutor. If it's just a counterspell, it's 1 less in the deck to worry about. If it's something more unique, it may be the only version of it in the deck to worry about .
Getting it countered makes it a little harder to access it, same goes for some combo pieces, so most people SHOULD let the tutor resolve and fight over the thing you tutored up.
This logic falls a bit short if they play breach.
They’ve put two cards into their graveyard if you let it resolve
Now THIS is a good card. T1 sol ring into T2 tutor plus any 1 drop you want in black. Grim Tutor can't do that. Absolutely busted.
I don't think it was mentioned, but this might be a kind of aggro card that one can try to mulligan for. Like getting a Gemstone in starting hand or a Leyline. A turn one with land, manacrypt into Rhystic Tutor where nobody can pay the 2 definitely sounds pretty good. Might be a dead card later on, but I suppose a random rite of flame on turn 7 might be considered a dead card too half the time. Might be just a turbo-y kind of all-in versus overall value argument.
@@DuhPoloc we touch on the adjacent idea to this: which leads to the same thing. Turbo loves this card, but nothing else really will.
Yea but other tutors exist so if you would mull for a hand with R tutor why not keep one with an other tutor?
Fringe positive, if you are playing this and someone decides to cast Oppo in response, you or another player can stop this for 2.
YO relevant!
Yea but first, who is going to Oppo this when they know that people are able to pay for it?
Second you just spend 5 mana for not doing anything and you are down a card. Third if you say well an opponent no gets to counter an opponents Oppo tuter take over you can also say well he would also have the answer (2 mana) without the Oppo so you wouldn’t have been able to tutor for anything anyway. This is just a 3 mana make an opponent pay 2 while you are going down a card if not played T1, even in a T1 hand I still would prefer just about any other tutor as they are either more safe to resolve or are less mana to cast. Not even fringe decks would want this card as those decks ain’t that desperate to maybe tutor.
No other player is paying 2 for the oppo that isn't paying it for the tutor already
I really wish this card was at least any one of the following:
1: one mana cheaper
2: an instant
3: having a better fail case (e.g. having it draw a card if they paid the {2} would be neat. Compare how something like Rhystic Shield has the worst case of giving +0/+1 if the enemy paid, rather than negating the effect completely).
The "Rhystic" cards and designs related to them are pretty interesting in e.g. how they effect a different evaluation of the board, so it's a shame most of the payoffs are not worth the risk embedded in the design (e.g. Rhystic Syphon is at-best Soul Feast but with an extra one life in each direction; while certainly it could work in a decent number of situations ({3} is a fair bit to pay) I'm not sure generally "2 extra life difference" is worth giving your opponent a card-less counterspell).
Agree with points 1 and 2, but point 3 is moot - if someone pays the 2 then the result is always terrible. You have to cast it at a time where no opponent is either willing or able or else it's an absolute fail.
@@damo9961 That's fair. The third point is more something that I think would make the design more interesting rather than something that would actually make it viable.
To tap down 2 lands from someone is potentially a downside. You could prevent someone to interact with the player after you, while a normal tutor into remora would have done everything you ever wanted.
I had to pull this from my decks because my opponents got sick of me asking if they pay the 2...
As long as grand abolisher effects hang around enough, I think just that + tutor is strictly better. But some decks might have a way to run this in addition to. I’m more excited to play it when people tap out in regular commander, as a poor-mans diabolic.
@@brendonford3838 abolisher+ anything is busted! …wait.. that just means abolisher is busted 😂
@@ThatsAGoodCard if we don’t play with busted cards, someone else will… 😮
Really entertaining chat between y'all. Subbed
Appreciate the love ❤️
Do Great Train Heist! I think people hyped up Return the Favor for Magda but ignored this card that is practically built for her. For 2 red, you can potentially double your treasures which is huge obv.
@@Dannyrod4573 added to the rec list! I wonder if Do has considered this..
The term casual cedh is very amusing to hear
The difference between cEDH and tcedh is becoming very real
@@ThatsAGoodCard If I may ask, what does 'tcedh' mean?
Tournament cedh
@@christopherpatricklizares5306 so there’s become a distinction where cEDH refers to the highest level you can push a “good” deck to. No issues with power level as you’re expecting to face the best of the best decks. tCEDH has risen in popularity as a way to describe the tournament CEDH meta: where you see a lot of the same decks that are considered the best: Blue Farm, Rog/Si, Sissay, etc
@@ThatsAGoodCard Oh! Thaaanks!
Speaking of politcal 3-mana cards. Act of Authority overperforms in casual, is it a good card?
I’m wondering if Stax decks consider this. I’ve personally never played against it in cEDH. Seems interesting.
It’s a very cool card. 3 mana sorcery speed is gonna keep it out of cedh id say
Love the content, keep it up!
Thanks for the support!!
Its currently in the Zain Cabal RogSi list. Been there for a month now
I'm thinking that you guys just wait until it's Do's turn to pull out the really fringe cards
@@TarzantheNinja the super fringe cards are Do’s specialty!
If ur willing to pay 3. And ur not 4/5color. Just play Grim Tutor lol
I think even 3 color can struggle to cast grim tutor in early turns. Especially t1
If you are playing 4/5 colors the card quality just doesn’t match and below 3 there are just no de ka I can think of THIS desperate for an extra tutor. In 3c i could see some RogSi deck play this and maybe some wild krark//Tymna lists.
Lmaoooooo mtghotdog so hyped rn
I actually have this card! Never really considered using it but maybe I should lol
Here’s some homework: cast this card 10 times and note down how many times out of 10 someone paid for it. Please come back and share with the class 😁
@@ThatsAGoodCard As soon as I get Exquisite Blood and Phyrexian Obliterator. I'll try it with Sheoldred the Apocalypse... Might skew the results. Everyone at my LGS draws tons of extra cards. I will definitely be the arch-enemy. Pretty sure everyone will want to pay every time lol
@dustinfindsrocks I wish you best of luck!
This card vs Lively Dirge, go
In a reanimator deck I’m rocking dirge all day.
I mean... why would I ever play this card? I don't get your arguements at all.
"It's taxing" no it isn't. It costs exactly as much as a counterspell. The difference: They don't have to trade 1:1 with their counterspell. They just pay 2 mana. Do you gain information? Sure, but you can say that about anything anytime an opponent has to make a choice.
Also, why would I ever pay 2 if I have interaction in my hand? I'll just counter whatever you're looking for.
And having 3 mana surplus is kinda rare in my experience at least. Sure when you're infinite but when your infinite you can do whatever you want really.
Thanks for joining the discussion! Let me play the favor for it against your points:
Regarding the information gained, since your opponents will collectively decide who they think should pay, you may get more information than if it were a linear thought process. When player A is squabbling with player B and saying they don’t have XYZ, you’re gaining valuable information.
There is a risk that comes with not paying the 2 if you don’t have exactly force of will or a blanket counter all. If you only have a fierce in hand and they tutor for a dockside, you’re going to have a bad time. Nevertheless,the fact that you said you would never pay the 2 is actually a positive for this card. If this card is resolving without anyone stopping it, you’re getting a tutor to hand which is incredibly powerful.
Lastly, the 3 mana is actually not too hard to attain since two of it is colorless pips. Unlike a grim tutor or beseech the mirror, you can find yourself casting this turn 1 with just a mana crypt and a land.
Thanks for putting on your devils advocate hat! We appreciate the support!
People don't play grim tutor.
But my reccomendation for a card is Loot, the key to Everything
To edit this
A single mana crypt or sol ring counters this for effectively free.
3 mana for 1 of your opponents lose 2 mana is very bad. Just really bad.
Plus, Only RogSi plays grim tutor.
So you either go t1 and you have a crypt and is slightly worse demonic tutor.
Or, you paid 3 whole mana to discard a card.
The tempo argument is really bad.
The card selection of a tutor and card advantage of countering it for free is better than a single thrasios card.
There are so many worlds where this just gets countered for free.
And if you go the political angle, why are you trying to pull so many levels in order to earn a bad tutor.
Thanks for the rec! Grim tutor’s downfall is it’s hard to play T1 due to double black pips. Rhystic Tutor can be casted easier on t1 thanks to all the fast colorless rocks we have access to in cEDH.
Another comment, I believe if you have grand abolisher, then this is just 2B tutor
Tempting Apple
Added to the rec list!
I get the idea but no deck is hungry enough for a tutor that is as bad as this one
Turbo lists are always hungry for tutors!