F... the keyboard--- that's why we have WINDOWS and GUI's and MICe--- so we DON"T NEED to sit banging stupid keys and memorizing a bunch of bulls.. shortcuts.. and it's NOT "G"-Nome...... it's pronounced "NOM"-- period.
@@ambros470 No, it's not. You can drive an OS with good UX that's intuitive via point and click. Also, it's more friendly for all users of any age (and disabilities) via point and click versus memorizing keyboard shortcuts.
I hated Gnome at first because it felt very unfamiliar, but after trying window tiling managers for a while (which I love but felt somewhat limited), and trying to find a balance between TWMs and traditional desktops, the Gnome workflow actually has grown on me quite a bit and I actually quite like it now! I had to watch your video just to make sure I'm actually using this right. On one hand, I'm utilizing workspaces like I would on a TWM, opening apps via keyboard shortcuts, but also retaining a lot of the floating windows experience whenever I felt like it.
I actually don't like how gnome works, but I liked this video, it helped me to understand better how actually it should be used. I will try to use some of your tips when I need to use it again.
I hated Gnome Shell when it came out. On the other hand after 14 years I am tired of fighting with KDE to make it work the way I want. Your video has given me a better appreciation for the intent of Gnome and frankly after all these years I dont care about the desktop, I want to do work and I want the DE to stay the hell out of my way.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because of this video I entered the world of Linux, I always thought that Linux is complicated system , I tried more than once but I couldn't because I didn't understand the philosophy behind Gnome Workflow, to be honest I didn't know there was a workflow Philosophy, I thought Linux was just hard. and you in this video connect everything, thank you very much .
I'm confused. GNOME doesn't restrict you to one app per desktop. You can change window sizes or even tile to the left and right like in Windows or Mac.
Don't think Gnome developers have worked in a busy office where you are working on a document, taking IMs Keeping an eye on your calendar for the next meeting and responding to your bosses email. I wonder how many Gnome user install dash to panel lol
My office work is generally a PDF source material i need for citations, a word document, and email client open on one screen, Internet browser on the other with news or twitter. GNOME being built to have everything in different areas is just not how I work... if folks like it cool but it seems like one giant window extension rather than a true DE. I love Mate (and especially ubuntu mate offering different flavors within like pantheon)
Idk. The activities view is really useful for window management when I'm working. The only issue is the limited tiling (without extensions), where it is left and right only.
This is a great video on GNOME. I've been using it as my main DE, but with extensions. With this knowledge, I want to try using Gnome without extensions. The exception will be visual modifications.
I don't see as really about focus on task/program that much (although I remember that devs used to accent it early on; and GNOME indeed hides unnecessary things). The biggest difference between GNOME way of things and traditional DEs is the way to switch programs and to see what is open. I used GNOME for a very long time and switch to KDE recently just because of some bugs in java proprietary software on Wayland, but still in KDE I use a lot of workspaces and ALT+TAB, ALT+~ to switch between windows. I have muscle memory on which workspace is which task and it all becomes very easy and efficient. The only thing I miss is the GNOME's really good overview where it is so easy to manage all open windows and open new ones. The nicest thing is that in KDE I can have two rows of workspaces. Once you get used to just know where you usually open windows, switching with simple shortcuts is way easier than using traditional task-bar with icons.
Thank you for the video, as a new GNOME user this was really helpful. It does not have to be this complicated, though. I get having the dock hidden and having bigger real estate on your monitor, but not having minimize button is just weird to me. I want to clean up my desktop once I'm done working on something, but I want the apps loaded in RAM and ready when I need them again later. Minimizing a window is just way easier than moving it to another workspace.
I love this. I get overwhelmed very often by my Windows taskbar not only from me wanting to hide the labels for space and design, but I can get confused and click the wrong icon too often trying to back and forth with minimizing windows! This new ui that allows me to keep all my apps open and just scroll to the different workspaces is so much nicer than what Windows has! Plus I hate the new taskbar on Windows 11 and how it is literally IMMOVABLE. I will be learning to install Linux on my laptop so I can have this
@@folksurvival Why do you think they are better? None of them have Wayland support yet and thus no touchpad gestures either, which are quite useful when using a laptop or a touchscreen device ...
I love Gnome's L&F and robustness/reliability, but I have two issues with the Gnome philosophy overall. 1) I use my PC desktop in the same way I might at the office, where the tasks that I have to take care of are front-and-center in front of me, ready to be worked on. I don't use the desktop to launch apps, but I do use the desktop to put data files that are reminders for me to work on things. I believe that's a very strong reason NOT to remove the ability of putting files on the desktop. 2) As someone who prefers the mouse to keyboard (carpal tunnel, aging, etc.), the metaphor of using the keyboard to switch between apps/desktops, instead of just clicking on a minimize/maximize button is less effective and intuitive, and more work. I'd rather not have to memorize a bunch of shortcut buttons, but instead have the UX of the UI intuitively guide me (down arrow to minimize an app, etc.) so that I can keep my mind on other things.
@@folksurvival I've tried budgie before, and liked it, but currently I'm using kde. Having said that, it seems like everyone is congealing around using gnome as a 'standard', which is why I was speaking out, as I see it has some UX flaws that need addressing.
@@CosmicClericIt is possible to access the overview by clicking the activities button in the top left corner with the mouse, not just keyboard shortcuts ... You can use an extension to enable the possiblity to put icons on the desktop ... And there is also an extension to have a dock or a panel visible on the desktop, not just the overview. Oh, and you can use the GNOME tweak tool to enable the minimize and maximize buttons.
@@marasion0862 I'm aware of all that, I'm actually a software developer myself. The point I'm trying to make though is that the devs may be going in the wrong direction versus what their customer base wants in how they're designing something. If you have to radically change the UI/UX to meet your needs and if everyone is doing that then that signals a problem that needs addressing. A good UX should not require memorization, it should be intuitive and easy to figure out on the fly.
I know it's too late to comment on this, but I got this video recommendation now well saying that, I have been using the gnome environment as my daily driver on various different distributions for the past 2 years.The good part is they have a great Work centric philosophy. The bad part is, well it's my opinion. They use browsers as their pool to comment on extension. Well till now I personally have not found any issues.. Apart from that the ease of use is the go to .....
Good video, hopefully the gnome haters can get it and learn to, if not like, at least understand the whole idea behind the DE. Just a couple of quick notes though, I think some might get the impression from this video that gnome *wants* you to only use a single program window per workspace which isn't the case. You can have as many windows open on a workspace as you want, it's just that workspaces allow you to abstract and separate your work by any arbitrary criteria you like, which should help you mentally keep track of your tasks in the most effortless and comfortable _for you_ way. In fact, I'd presume most people really only use a handful of workspaces, I for one usually get by with only 3 the vast majority of the time. You really hit the nail when you mentioned that 'the default' view, or the starting point when you boot into gnome, is the activities overview, and it should give a hint as to how the DE works. I think the easiest (correct?) way to think about gnome is starting from the traditional desktop metaphor and abstracting it away into a sort of a virtualized meta-desktop. Essentially, you still have a desk, and its top surface, however it's more like a virtualized (or hell, call it even a magical) one, which allows you to instantly rearrange everything with the snap of your fingers. For example, in one instance you have some novel/work of fiction that you are reading, next to it a music player connected to your bluetooth speaker, something like an ipod or a walkman, and along with these a chess board - all of these you can call 'recreational activities'. Then you snap your fingers and now on the desk you have some schematic diagrams, a maths textbook, a notebook, the sort of stuff you might call 'work/school activities'. And you can always switch between these desk tops or, if necessary, invoke brand new ones for a different sort of work you may need to do, effortlessly, with just the snap of your fingers. This is also why you don't really need a minimize button. At the end of the day, the gnome's concept of the desktop is just _the space_ where a certain set of tasks are running, and not everything else a desk comes up with (no drawers, cabinets etc.). And you can always easily switch between these spaces or spawn more of them, however the space itself is completely irrelevant to the actual workflow beyond the very basic physical/spacial constraints it imposes (ie. how many windows can you juggle on a single workspace before it becomes impossible to navigate). And, very importantly, like every DE - or any piece of software in general, to get the most out of gnome, you should spend some time tweaking the default settings so that you can have a quick and intuitive workflow using _both_ keyboard and mouse. However, the one reason gnome is so popular and widely adopted by practically all commercial Linux systems - or _pushed_ as some like to think about it - is because it's really accessibility friendly and can be used exclusively with either mouse (touchscreen) or keyboard Also, out of curiosity, I just checked and I have 15 modified/added shortcuts, 3 installed extensions (clipboard history, weather o'clock and hot edge) and 2 modifications in tweaks (close button on left, layout switching with Alt+Tab). And there's a couple of other gnome settings I've modified, like app switching restricted only to apps from the current workspace, and scrolling settings. I can recreate all of these on a fresh vanilla install of gnome within half an hour, which is why this is my DE of choice. Because, even though I can work with all the other DEs (or OS shells), getting them to a comfortable configuration is always so tedious in my experience.
I appreciate the quality of this video and explanation, however I almost completely disagree with the premise that Gnome has somehow made improvements to a typical user's workflow. We've all been trained for many years by Apple and Microsoft (mostly) to see a computer screen as a visual representation of a desktop, and for most people that includes juggling multiple projects and tools ("pens, pencils and paper clips") in quick succession. For someone like myself, who needs to continually and quickly refer to and transfer information between a browser and spreadsheet, vanilla Gnome is a usability disaster that has to be functionally transformed to be useful. Change for change's sake is usually not a great idea.
Great video! One suggestion though, you use the term "desktop" to refer to what others (KDE, Win) call the desktop as well as what Gnome calls "workspaces". That might be confusing to s newbie. As you point out Gnome doesn't really have a *desktop* but places/spaces/areas where you do your work: *workspaces*.
Thanks! I've been using Cinammon on Mint for a couple of years now but I was thinking about trying something else on my work laptop. KDE was kinda intuitive but confusing a lot and looking like Windows. So wanted something else. But Gnome was a bit confusing too initially. Because I just didn't understand the idea behind it and how to use it. Yes, there are a few odd things but I started to like it and it makes using a computer easy again.
Nice how you explain the huge problem with Gnome: it expects you to work in a certain way and only works with a specific paradigm that does no necessarily fit to the actual work you have to do. Because how you work is not only depending on "how you're used to work for so long", but also on the actual work you have to do. Because we all of course know, that there is lots of work/tasks to do, for which you need several apps open at the same time and easily switch between them and always see where they are without needing to press a key, wait for an animation, just to see where things are, and then spend the time to get to that app. I mean, even only using a handful of different apps, I have to have several PDFs open to check sources and literature. And that not only in PDFs, but also in the web, and you need those because you are writing a paper and thus have a LaTeX editor or at least LibreWriter open ... and thus the entire way the Gnome developers think you should use the desktop, goes out the window. So yes, for everyday non-job related work at home, Gnome works fine, but if you have an actual office job and don't work as a developer, then you need at least the material-shell extension, that even more re-thinks how a desktop works while at the same time stay useful for any kind of work you have to do.
Hmmm...., Ambros just explained why Gnome is the way it is, and I think he made a very good explanation about it, btw in case you haven't noticed , you can have multiple apps/task on a single gnome desktop too.
i use windwos linux and mac almost everyweek and my my personal favorite is gnome worflow im fast im productive and just more fluent around my work, i dont know what people are talking about and why they hate it
isn't gnome like using android in the sense that the traditional desktop screen is gone? i feel some similarity with windows 8's approach then, but in a more less-flexible way.
Is there a video on various desktop environments. People mention what they have and like, but where do you get to see them and know them before deciding on purchas? Thanks for this video!
Thanks for that. I have been using KDE plasma on Manjaro, but I was thinking of switching to Debian for more stability. I think I'll give vanilla Gnome a proper try.
papervm is a pretty cool extension that transforms your desktops to a scroll based tiling manager, i can be laggy sometimes but it adds so much to the gnome expreience, it's like having desktops within your desktops, y'all should give it a try
I may have been misleading a bit. It's not so much about one window for one workspace, but more for one task for one workspace. I routinely have multiple windows open at a time on a single workspace depending on the task. The main thrust is discouraging people from minimizing windows to a bottom bar. If a program isn't needed it shouldn't be hidden, it should be closed. This decreases visual clutter on the desktop and creates a cleaner working environment for the tasks you actually need to complete.
@@ambros470 is there a way to limit alt+tab functionality to the windows in the current workspace? I find that when I try to switch I usually end up in another workspace instead which is very annoying
@@nunosdonato Yes there is, In settings under "Multitasking", on the bottom on the page there is a section "Application Switching", there you can choose that Alt-Tab only shows windows opened in the same workspace
I'm very confused. My job revolves around about 10 windows that I constantly need to swap around, like every two minutes, because infos from window 1 are read and used in window 2, then window 3 infos need to go into window 2 but on another file that is also opened... and I don't see how Gnome could make this more fluid than... Windows. Windows seems actually more functionnal, I can instantly swap between programs, see what is opened or not without altering my main view to access a menu to start a program, minimize them, right clic app shortcut to select a file to open which will allow me to have multiple sessions of the same app opened with different data... To mee, Gnome as you present it seems very monotasking, like very good for artists or people doing code. Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but I don't see how I could work with constant task interruptions in such an environnement.
The biggest frustration I have with gnome right now is their ethos and the intersection of ultra wide or dual monitors. For a single, 16:9 or less aspect ratio or around there screen, it's great. It breaks down real quick the moment you stray from it
A lot of hate towards some hypothetical "MacOS users" who are using their computer wrong all the time. I'm on Mac right now, my dock has 5 apps pinned, and it is always hidden unless I bring my mouse down. "Activities" in Gnome is just "Mission control" in MacOS, it looks exactly the same, the only difference here is that I only go there to rearrange my windows, to access them or switch between them I can just use the dock, where Gnome needs a separate action for it. MacOS also lets me minimize or hide windows I don't need currently, which Gnome also eliminated. And it also has the Stage Manager, that allows me to focus on one task and switch between windows with a single click every time. I was using Linux for the longest time, moved from gnome 2 to Unity to gnome shell and it distracted me constantly, I never got used to it. Switching from unity to windows to macos was absolutely effortless. Having an idea for organizing windows in a consistent, novel way doesn't automatically mean that it's a good idea. Gnome's idea isn't good.
It's a little weird at first. I came from using budgie for about 5 years. My suggestion is to learn the shortcuts. Gnome is very keyboard centric, but it doesn't really tell you. Also, the default workspace management shortcuts are a little obtuse, since they use arrow keys, so changing that is a big improvement
I love Gnome, especially after gnome 40. I just switched to Fedora from Ubuntu so I now have the "vanilla" Gnome experience for the first time ever. Also on Ubuntu I already adopted the vanilla workflow for the most part it seems (at least, I always just hit Super key, search for app and hit enter) and only had a minimal collection of apps pinned to the sidebar. The only thing I still need to get used to a little bit: the no minimize button. I still have to get in the habit of when I'm done with an app and need to do something else, I either need to move that app to a different workspace or just close it I often am like confused for a second on what to do with the app haha. Or the quickest way to get focus back to an already open app while both are maximized on the same workspace. Guess alt + tab is your friend here but on Ubuntu I just clicked on the sidebar. I really need to let go of some old habits still haha.
@ambros470 for the last point: how is your workflow regarding that? So multiple maximized apps on the same workspace and your need to quickly switch to another one. Alt + tab? Super + click on the app? Another elegant solution or just make sure to more effectively use workspaces so this rarely happens?
But isn't Windows like that where you're not distracted by the taskbar or other icons ? When your screen is open to the full text document, to you only see the taskbar with its icons when you when you move your mouse over it and it pops up.
Only thing I miss from Gnome, is a way to make a proper tiling desktop that resizes windows automagically and allows me to split or resize to percentages or pixels. This, and treat every screen as a separate desktop, and I would be a happy camper with Gnome. Ideal work case: When pressing super, I can then hjkl to navigate to the window I am looking for. Pressing w followed by r resizes the the width of a window to a percentage, e.g. w30r makes the window width (actually, entire current column) 30% of the screen. likewise, h30r resizes the window to 30% the size of the screen, and W300r resizes the Window to 300px width while H300r resizes the height to 300px. super or enter ends command mode. This type of heuristic makes it dead simple to do tiling.
i just wish it were more aesthetic. it's very flat, and grey. i could get used to the workflow, but i need to theme it and customise it to make it feel elegant, but as soon as that process starts, the whole environment quickly starts showing glitches and rough edges, particularly when transparency gets involved, rounded corners, etc. I'm not saying everybody has the same concerns, but it would be great if it would be more robust and accommodating as far as system theming goes, and/or offer some more controls and alternative and modern aesthetic choices that are polished and well implemented.
I feel, still to this day, just as I did years ago when GNOME 4 came out... The GNOME devs have never had to reference other documents while word processing or building something. This video is super pretentious. I hear "Legacy" when it comes to someone's workflow and it's just very obvious the person hasn't actually come up with a real solution to people's needs. Instead wanting to enforce their vision of how someone should work on them.
Despite what a lot of people claim, you can have 2 applications open at the same time. He has a web browser and word processor open at 6:23, which fulfils your "reference other documents while word processing" use case.
I was a Linux user back in the 90s (Slackware).. and decided to try Linux again. I am a VFX artist, and Windows has been great for that kind of work. When I installed Rocky 9.1, and installed Gnome. This was the desktop environment I was exposed to. Just like this video. I actually thought that I screwed up the installation and tried to installing again... obviously the same results. This is such a horrible experience, horrible workflow for me, I can't do it.. 30 secs is all it took for me to say NOPE!!!
The only thing that bothers me is when I'm shutting down. I'm used to pressing win/meta/super key and hitting the shutdown button. Also I'm used to opening home folder or folder using super key + e. Any tips?
Quick question, .. when I copy a file in desktop folder, does not appear in the desktop. ( am I doing something wrong?). So, why gnome still keep desktop folder if not in use?
I'm confused. You say MacOS is made for "aesthetics" and is inherently against productivity. But… GNOME Desktop pretty much looks like MacOS right after they introduced the "Mission Control" view. When I hide the dock in MacOS, Mission Control works exactly the way GNOME's overview does, and MacOS has been that way for longer than GNOME has. Most of the drawbacks you've mentioned (cluttered docks, etc.) are just user preference. Part of me wonders if the reasons why people don't "get" GNOME are the same as the reasons people don't "get" MacOS. Another part of me wonders how many people "get" the UI of their OS anyway. Most of the people I know using any of these environments (MacOS, Windows 10/11, GNOME, KDE) often use them inefficiently: tons of icons on the bar, dozens of windows on a single desktop, dozens of icons on the desktop, etc. They look at the way I use MacOS and Windows as though it were entirely foreign.
Mission Control and Gnome 3 were both introduced in 2011, but Gnome combines search and the apps grid into the Overview whereas Mission control does not have those, at least not in 2011. He said the information constantly visible at the bottom of the screen is fundamentally anti-productive. Mac has that by default, but Gnome hides it until the user needs it. When Gnome users are working, everything is out of the way, and when they are context-switching everything is brought into view by a single button.
I thought I do something wrong, but after watching this video I start to suspect the Gnome environment is somewhat out of touch with the users. I can live without a constantly visible drawer/tray/toolbar/docker, that's far from the issue here. 1) I would like to jump between my windows without spending time organizing them. I see that on your status bar or whatzit (the tray Gnome decided is not diatracting), you have your applications showing, which I do not have on Fedora 40. 2) The desktop is useless. It's an image background to organize your open windows. I would like to organize more than just open windows on them. Seems pretty intuitive to put files, applets and launchers on your desktop. Since they are hidden by open windows, I do not see how those would be distracting. I can't seem to have a file shirtcut for my documents on the desktop or the app drawer, which means I have to dig out my doc to start to work on it.
On second thought, my confusion with the Gnome environment is second to my confusion with why the most popular Linux distros are shipped with this clearly experimenting design by default. Are they really want to keep the normies out or something?
I don't know a reason to put files, applets and launchers on the desktop if they're going to be hidden by open windows. You'd have to move the windows to use the files etc. Gnome's Files app lets you "bookmark" special folders and "star" special files, making both quickly accessible. The notification panel has applets, though most developers don't use that, but it has weather, world time and calendar from the respective Gnome apps, and has media controls when media is playing. Launchers go in the dash/dock or the apps grid. Everything is in its right place, and very accessible. I think the thing you can't see in Fedora 40 is the dash - the bottom panel with app icons. Press the Windows key to reveal it, or fling the mouse to the top left corner, or swipe up on the touchpad with 3 fingers.
@@shaunpatrick8345 The fact that the windows have no heads to grab them, or that the content of inactive windows on the screen can be interacted with instantly goes against the idea that you are in control of your screen, so misclickable fixed desktop elements would be right at home for the sake of easier access. Meanwhile the requirement to pull up the window management and app selection interface every time I want to access my open window #69 or access my favorite app not only introduces a compoundling number of clicks, but causes real confussion as your content on screen shrinks or vanishes momentarily during that. This is super cobcentration breaking. All in all my current opinion is thaz the environment looks slick, but in functionality it is the worst of both worlds. I came to know the prevalence of Gnome in popular distros is at least partly due to the fact that it works well in a touchscreen environment. However I believe that tablet compability should not be built on the detriment of desktop utility.
so since everything is hidden when working on a task, is there a way how to pin the clock or timer, or do you have to go to activities to see the time?
Pantheon feels a bit dated to me to be honest. Also Elementary OS is mostly irrelevant at this point and last I tried it's pretty tough to get pantheon working well on Arch.
@@ambros470 I do really like the workflow and look of Pantheon honestly. Look wise I can definitely see how it looks “dated” to you but I quite enjoy it. I’m personally not a fan of Adwaita at all lol. Hopefully Elementary OS can survive even if for there to be a little more choice in the community. We have quite a few desktops that are trying to be Windows but not that many that are really trying to do their own thing (outside of the Window Manager space anyway) I do not have much negative to say about Pantheon but I do have quite a bit negative to say about Elementary. Not having flathub enabled by default being the big one, I am sure that has scared away a lot of casual users from them.
I used GNOME briefly. Then the garbage that was Unity. Then GNOME again. Then KDE. Of the choices available, MATE has been my preference for several years now.
Thanks for the explanation. One question - what are you doing when the pile with dots indicators pops up? I've never seen it on my Fedora 36 system, but it seems very handy
ctrl+alt+arrow key left/right. that's the shortcut to switch workspaces from keyboard only and the pile of dots represent the desktop/workspace u r switching to
It's why Ihave Gnome. I want the DE to get out of my way. My workflow is more efficient. I second everything you said. I am on a laptop and use 3 finger swipe to swich workspaces.
So....installing reapack and sws extensions in reaper..using gnome ? will gnome show me the resource folder so that i can drag and drop reapack into it...ir do I need to learn how to find the folder, find the file, move the file to the folder using command line?
While I get your explanation for Gnome's approach, and I think you explained it well, I don't think it's for me. Coming from the Mac I miss being able to spread icons on the desktop for the simple reason that icons let me think about documents. Gnome seems to require me to think about applications. I don't organize my workflow and thinking that way. And while your observation about the Mac dock getting overloaded with apps is correct, in practice, I'm not sure Mac power users even look at the dock that much. I keep mine hidden and launch apps either by double-clicking on a document, or by simply hitting command-spacebar and typing the first few letters of the app I want to launch. Due to RSI's I need to minimize mouse use, and much to my surprise I find I can drive the Mac interface more easily from the keyboard than I can Gnome's. Gnome is very pretty, though.
You can open a document in Gnome by typing the first few letters of its name in the overview screen. The Files app lets you bookmark important folders, such as those for projects you're working on. You can reorder the list of bookmarks to represent the priority of each project. So it can be document-centric if you want it to be.
THAT "theory" of gnomes about an empty desktop is NON- distracting is STUPID--- moving to each "tasK separately is STUPID.. the whole thing is IDIOTIC....NO ONE with a desk has everything hidden away so they have to open a da.... drawer to FIND a stapler or a pen- or ruller- or... they just don't.. the whole thing is STUPID.
I used to use an extension called Dock from Dash by fthx, which is basically autohide for the dock. But after a while I found it's easier just to use vanilla Gnome.
Guys can someone tell me how do I save multiple workspaces. Like for work it should save certain application in certian layout, for entertainment different application in different layout?? Are there any extension for this
The systray isn't there for aesthetics. It's there so I know specific background programs (for me, my VPN and the file sync client I use) are doing their job and to grant me immediate access to them if I need to alter something. Can I use gnome without extensions? In theory, sure. Will I use gnome a day after I lose access to functioning systray extension? No, probably not. Now to be fair, I don't need a lot of extensions and I largely enjoy gnome but I'd love for gnome advocates and developers to stop talking shit about systray. I will bastardize KDE or Cinammon into a second rate imitator of Gnome with a systray before I use Gnome without a systray.
@@exiledmystran it's been a while since I made this, I don't remember what I said specifically but I don't necessarily disagree with you at this moment. The problem isn't that systray is ugly. The problem is that systray is just bad design both from UX and accessibility points of view.
I was a programmer before I became a tech journalist, and later a visual artist. I've worked as a UI designer for a few moons too when I was still in the industry. So I see the following problems: 1. It expects you to work the way it wants you to work. But the truth is, 99% of users only launch a browser. So why not allow users to have 1 such icon shortcut on the main bar, or the desktop? Why do we have to do 3-4 clicks instead of 1 to find the app we want from the app menu, while 99% of the time it's just the same app we load? Gnome seems to think that its environment is made for people who use 4-5 apps daily, and compartmentalize between them. In reality, the majority just use 1 app. Even in most businesses! 2. Virtual desktops/workspaces are not what people want. Mac OS X tried that. If that idea was to work with the public, it would have worked in 2004, when Steve Jobs was demoing it at the Apple Events in SF (I was there for some of them as a tech journalist back then) and he was jumping up and down with passion for that feature and its amazing animations. Guess what: normal users SHRUGGED at the feature after the initial enthusiasm, and today that feature is barely used by OSX users. 3. Windows and Mac also have shortcuts. 99% of users never learn anything more than the copy/paste shortcut. Why? Because they don't want to. People are lazy and busy with other things rather than having to memorize shortcuts. Forcing them to learn shortcuts in order to be faster than with the mouse, is just a futile exercise. People are VISUAL, not tactile. This is something that computer and OS manufacturers were learning hard in the 1980s. And here we have Gnome in the 2020s thinking it knows better. 4. What about people with a single arm? Are these expected to do multiple clicks with their one hand and mouse (since they can't do shortcuts) while it could have been simpler with fewer clicks? I know that Gnome traditionally has made a big deal about their accessibility support, but they only support it extraneously, not in a fundamental way. Finally, think of cellphones. They also have a single-app at a time interface, reminiscent to Gnome's "workspace" idea. And yet, their desktop is full of icon shortcuts, not an empty screen. And going from a virtual desktop to another is a flick away. Changing apps? also a matter of a few flicks. Instead, Gnome wants to base that experience into keyboard shortcuts that are fundamentally separated from the actual visual element of the screen. Basically, Gnome is trying to do something that requires a different input medium to feel optimized (I don't know, maybe thought-driven UI). But keystrokes ain't it. Ubuntu tries to remedy the gnome experience a bit, but it's still a weird interface. KDE is pure bloat, and the other smaller environments don't really matter at this point. The only one I've seen that is logical, is Linux Mint's Cinnamon. But that one doesn't support Wayland...
1. Why would you need to see a launch icon for the main app that's constantly open anyway? It's not like we shut down everything every day and reopen in the morning, usually it's just suspend, so you keep going from where you left. 2. I won't say for most users, but I see even my 12 yo son uses workspaces on his Mac, and I never taught him that, it's something he learned by himself. 3-4. Shortcuts are not mandatory, one can do everything with just mouse in gnome. Shortcuts are for geeks who love doing everything from their beloved keyboard.
I used pop os now and I kinda agree. I tried to use vanilla modern gnome (fedora) before and Its unusable without the dock, at least before this video is recommended I now see how it was supposed to be used. The way it is designed to be used is not obvious unlike windows / mac os, no even xfce is better. The best thing about gnome is the extensions, anyone could make it however they wanted. I do hope I could save my setup easily in a GUI like app so I could share my setup to everyone that wanted to (and it looks ok and usable imo).
@@thedeemon I've never seen anyone other than myself use workspaces. People act like I'm a magician when they see me using them. It's cool that your son uses them. That's cool. That still doesn't mean that people use workspaces. They don't. Not really.
If you use only 1 app, you don't need a taskbar taking up a chunk of the screen. If you only use 1 app, put it at position 1 in the dash and open it with Windows+1. But if you install web apps you can press the windows key and type the name of the app, and you can move them to different workspaces to group them by task. You don't have to do that, but you can. Nobody is forced to use shortcuts, and the workspaces can have more than one app in them. The video shows what _can_ be done, not what _has to_ be done. Phones have an apps grid under the apps, Gnome has one above the apps, so it doesn't need a messy desktop. Gnome's workspaces are a flick away if you use a mouse or touchpad, and that's as connected to the screen as you can get without actually using the screen. The experience is not limited to keyboard shortcuts, that's just the most efficient way to use it. If a phone had a keyboard it would be quicker to press a menu key and type an app's name than to scroll through the list of apps.
My problem with gnome in general is that it "wants". I don't need my computer to want, or feel, I need it to do what I tell it to do. The fact that their most popular add on: dash2dock isn't included with the DE as an optional toggle because gnome FEELS like you shouldn't want it really rubs the wrong way and makes me feel like the DE wasn't designed by people trying to make my life easier, but my some pretentious aholes with something to prove. KDE doesn't want to do anything other than what I want it to. I can make it look and feel just like gnome or windows and everything in between, it's my choice because it's my computer. KDE is everything I love about Linux, while gnome feels like everything I hate about mac and ios.
Yeah there are a few extensions that can get you there. The basic ones you'd need is arcmenu which has an option for a krunner style app launcher and popshell which functions as a twm.
I get the philosophy and it’s ok if you like to work in that way. My main complain is the way gnome organizes installed applications. I still like to have my software organized in a tree-like clear categories, easy to find using logic, not in a mobile-like bundle of boxes. I don’t see how this mobile paradigm is good for productivity…
The most productive way of opening apps is to type their name in the overview screen, or even just type a task or a category. When I type "diff" I am shown an icon for an app which displays differences between text files, and also an icon for one which shows differences between videos. Neither has "diff" in its name. When I type "spread" I get Calc, the Libreoffice spreadsheet app. "Email" gets Geary, "internet" gets several web browsers, etc.
Hell nah, hard disagree It is not just being "used to". I first thought that GNOME default was made with usability in mind but honestly it just looks like some naive purist's wet dream or something I constantly have to think more to do the same things. Conceptually it might sound neato and all that but in practice, it simply doesn't come through. And no, switching between different apps is not a "distraction". Never once did I ever feel that on Windows so that is either a misinterpretation or if that really was the spirit then it sounds unfounded imo
It's not the act of switching that is the distraction, it's the array of coloured buttons constantly visible at the bottom the screen which you keep there, taking up space, just so that you can switch without having to alt+tab. If you auto-hide them they become an annoyance rather than a distraction, when they pop up if your mouse hits the hot zone.
F... the keyboard--- that's why we have WINDOWS and GUI's and MICe--- so we DON"T NEED to sit banging stupid keys and memorizing a bunch of bulls.. shortcuts.. and it's NOT "G"-Nome...... it's pronounced "NOM"-- period.
A+ comment right here.
@@ambros470 the passion is real, but a good point is being made.
If you want to be slower and use that method that's a perfectly acceptable approach. And BTW, it is G-nome, just like G-NU.
@@CosmicCleric It's actually a terrible point. Memorizing "stupid shortcuts" is a necessary part of using any operating system effectively.
@@ambros470 No, it's not. You can drive an OS with good UX that's intuitive via point and click.
Also, it's more friendly for all users of any age (and disabilities) via point and click versus memorizing keyboard shortcuts.
Tip from me: Super+Scroll up/down allows to easily move between workspaces.
OMG this is huge. THANKS!
super + alt + arrow
@@ikytsu7822Windows + Ctrl + Arrow on Windows 11
use Microsoft PowerToys to change it to Alt instead of ctrl
I hated Gnome at first because it felt very unfamiliar, but after trying window tiling managers for a while (which I love but felt somewhat limited), and trying to find a balance between TWMs and traditional desktops, the Gnome workflow actually has grown on me quite a bit and I actually quite like it now! I had to watch your video just to make sure I'm actually using this right. On one hand, I'm utilizing workspaces like I would on a TWM, opening apps via keyboard shortcuts, but also retaining a lot of the floating windows experience whenever I felt like it.
Great video!
Actually, I wanted Gnome to be like KDE or Windows, but now I know that Gnome has a completely different approach. Thanks a lot.
I actually don't like how gnome works, but I liked this video, it helped me to understand better how actually it should be used. I will try to use some of your tips when I need to use it again.
I hated Gnome Shell when it came out. On the other hand after 14 years I am tired of fighting with KDE to make it work the way I want. Your video has given me a better appreciation for the intent of Gnome and frankly after all these years I dont care about the desktop, I want to do work and I want the DE to stay the hell out of my way.
There are other options than KDE and GNOME and many are better such as MATE, Cinnamon and Budgie.
Best explaining video on gnome I have ever seen.
Congrats
I was a gnome fan before watching this video. Now I like it even more. Thanks for the clarifications.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because of this video I entered the world of Linux, I always thought that Linux is complicated system , I tried more than once but I couldn't because I didn't understand the philosophy behind Gnome Workflow, to be honest I didn't know there was a workflow Philosophy, I thought Linux was just hard. and you in this video connect everything, thank you very much .
Thanks, that's a really good explanation of the idea behind Gnome, and it does give me some things to think about :)
As a person who usually eorks with at least 2-3 programms opened at the same time - the gnome's expectation seems really weird to me
I'm confused. GNOME doesn't restrict you to one app per desktop. You can change window sizes or even tile to the left and right like in Windows or Mac.
@@adonnen no, but it does push you toward that paradigm.
Great video, I just started using fedora on my laptop and it's really useful!
Don't think Gnome developers have worked in a busy office where you are working on a document, taking IMs Keeping an eye on your calendar for the next meeting and responding to your bosses email. I wonder how many Gnome user install dash to panel lol
My office work is generally a PDF source material i need for citations, a word document, and email client open on one screen, Internet browser on the other with news or twitter. GNOME being built to have everything in different areas is just not how I work... if folks like it cool but it seems like one giant window extension rather than a true DE. I love Mate (and especially ubuntu mate offering different flavors within like pantheon)
Idk. The activities view is really useful for window management when I'm working. The only issue is the limited tiling (without extensions), where it is left and right only.
Excellent video!! I used to hate gnome but once i spent some time with it i found i was way more productive. Thanks!!!!
This is a great video on GNOME. I've been using it as my main DE, but with extensions.
With this knowledge, I want to try using Gnome without extensions.
The exception will be visual modifications.
I don't see as really about focus on task/program that much (although I remember that devs used to accent it early on; and GNOME indeed hides unnecessary things).
The biggest difference between GNOME way of things and traditional DEs is the way to switch programs and to see what is open.
I used GNOME for a very long time and switch to KDE recently just because of some bugs in java proprietary software on Wayland, but still in KDE I use a lot of workspaces and ALT+TAB, ALT+~ to switch between windows. I have muscle memory on which workspace is which task and it all becomes very easy and efficient.
The only thing I miss is the GNOME's really good overview where it is so easy to manage all open windows and open new ones.
The nicest thing is that in KDE I can have two rows of workspaces. Once you get used to just know where you usually open windows, switching with simple shortcuts is way easier than using traditional task-bar with icons.
kde has overview now
Thanks, gnome is now making sense for me. I think I will finally feel at home in linux.
This should have been an official video from Gnome. It is a different work philosophy.
Thanks for this overview. I'm switching over to Bazzite with Gnome right now and am excited to have a simplified and elegant desktop experience
Finally I have something to link when people say "gNoMe iS uNuSaBlE wItHoUt ExTeNsIoNs"
As long as there's no dock on the desktop, it's unusable
@@priyanshusharma1812 no it's not, because Meta+number is faster anyway
@@nicktyrin4401 it isn't if you don't have your hands on the keyboard all the time
@@raidev_ wait, how? Meta+number is a keyboard shortcut
@@nicktyrin4401 sorry i meant isn't
Thank you for the video, as a new GNOME user this was really helpful. It does not have to be this complicated, though. I get having the dock hidden and having bigger real estate on your monitor, but not having minimize button is just weird to me. I want to clean up my desktop once I'm done working on something, but I want the apps loaded in RAM and ready when I need them again later. Minimizing a window is just way easier than moving it to another workspace.
I love this. I get overwhelmed very often by my Windows taskbar not only from me wanting to hide the labels for space and design, but I can get confused and click the wrong icon too often trying to back and forth with minimizing windows! This new ui that allows me to keep all my apps open and just scroll to the different workspaces is so much nicer than what Windows has! Plus I hate the new taskbar on Windows 11 and how it is literally IMMOVABLE. I will be learning to install Linux on my laptop so I can have this
For me that's the best GUI in linux period simple and very productive also the motion is very well done.
You can't even express yourself clearly (lack of commas). I see why a dumbed down desktop appeals to you.
The GNOME Desktop Environment is the best desktop environment in the World. Thanks Bro
Nah, MATE (fork of GNOME 2), Cinnamon (fork of GNOME 3) and Budgie (fork of GNOME 3) are all better.
@@folksurvival Why do you think they are better? None of them have Wayland support yet and thus no touchpad gestures either, which are quite useful when using a laptop or a touchscreen device ...
thank you, this was the video that catalyzed my shift to linux
I love Gnome's L&F and robustness/reliability, but I have two issues with the Gnome philosophy overall.
1) I use my PC desktop in the same way I might at the office, where the tasks that I have to take care of are front-and-center in front of me, ready to be worked on.
I don't use the desktop to launch apps, but I do use the desktop to put data files that are reminders for me to work on things.
I believe that's a very strong reason NOT to remove the ability of putting files on the desktop.
2) As someone who prefers the mouse to keyboard (carpal tunnel, aging, etc.), the metaphor of using the keyboard to switch between apps/desktops, instead of just clicking on a minimize/maximize button is less effective and intuitive, and more work.
I'd rather not have to memorize a bunch of shortcut buttons, but instead have the UX of the UI intuitively guide me (down arrow to minimize an app, etc.) so that I can keep my mind on other things.
Try MATE, Cinnamon, Budgie or XFCE.
@@folksurvival I've tried budgie before, and liked it, but currently I'm using kde.
Having said that, it seems like everyone is congealing around using gnome as a 'standard', which is why I was speaking out, as I see it has some UX flaws that need addressing.
@@CosmicClericIt is possible to access the overview by clicking the activities button in the top left corner with the mouse, not just keyboard shortcuts ... You can use an extension to enable the possiblity to put icons on the desktop ... And there is also an extension to have a dock or a panel visible on the desktop, not just the overview.
Oh, and you can use the GNOME tweak tool to enable the minimize and maximize buttons.
@@marasion0862 I'm aware of all that, I'm actually a software developer myself.
The point I'm trying to make though is that the devs may be going in the wrong direction versus what their customer base wants in how they're designing something.
If you have to radically change the UI/UX to meet your needs and if everyone is doing that then that signals a problem that needs addressing.
A good UX should not require memorization, it should be intuitive and easy to figure out on the fly.
I know it's too late to comment on this, but I got this video recommendation now well saying that, I have been using the gnome environment as my daily driver on various different distributions for the past 2 years.The good part is they have a great Work centric philosophy. The bad part is, well it's my opinion. They use browsers as their pool to comment on extension. Well till now I personally have not found any issues.. Apart from that the ease of use is the go to .....
Good video, hopefully the gnome haters can get it and learn to, if not like, at least understand the whole idea behind the DE.
Just a couple of quick notes though, I think some might get the impression from this video that gnome *wants* you to only use a single program window per workspace which isn't the case. You can have as many windows open on a workspace as you want, it's just that workspaces allow you to abstract and separate your work by any arbitrary criteria you like, which should help you mentally keep track of your tasks in the most effortless and comfortable _for you_ way. In fact, I'd presume most people really only use a handful of workspaces, I for one usually get by with only 3 the vast majority of the time.
You really hit the nail when you mentioned that 'the default' view, or the starting point when you boot into gnome, is the activities overview, and it should give a hint as to how the DE works. I think the easiest (correct?) way to think about gnome is starting from the traditional desktop metaphor and abstracting it away into a sort of a virtualized meta-desktop.
Essentially, you still have a desk, and its top surface, however it's more like a virtualized (or hell, call it even a magical) one, which allows you to instantly rearrange everything with the snap of your fingers. For example, in one instance you have some novel/work of fiction that you are reading, next to it a music player connected to your bluetooth speaker, something like an ipod or a walkman, and along with these a chess board - all of these you can call 'recreational activities'. Then you snap your fingers and now on the desk you have some schematic diagrams, a maths textbook, a notebook, the sort of stuff you might call 'work/school activities'. And you can always switch between these desk tops or, if necessary, invoke brand new ones for a different sort of work you may need to do, effortlessly, with just the snap of your fingers.
This is also why you don't really need a minimize button. At the end of the day, the gnome's concept of the desktop is just _the space_ where a certain set of tasks are running, and not everything else a desk comes up with (no drawers, cabinets etc.). And you can always easily switch between these spaces or spawn more of them, however the space itself is completely irrelevant to the actual workflow beyond the very basic physical/spacial constraints it imposes (ie. how many windows can you juggle on a single workspace before it becomes impossible to navigate).
And, very importantly, like every DE - or any piece of software in general, to get the most out of gnome, you should spend some time tweaking the default settings so that you can have a quick and intuitive workflow using _both_ keyboard and mouse. However, the one reason gnome is so popular and widely adopted by practically all commercial Linux systems - or _pushed_ as some like to think about it - is because it's really accessibility friendly and can be used exclusively with either mouse (touchscreen) or keyboard
Also, out of curiosity, I just checked and I have 15 modified/added shortcuts, 3 installed extensions (clipboard history, weather o'clock and hot edge) and 2 modifications in tweaks (close button on left, layout switching with Alt+Tab). And there's a couple of other gnome settings I've modified, like app switching restricted only to apps from the current workspace, and scrolling settings. I can recreate all of these on a fresh vanilla install of gnome within half an hour, which is why this is my DE of choice. Because, even though I can work with all the other DEs (or OS shells), getting them to a comfortable configuration is always so tedious in my experience.
Thanks for the aspirational concept that is gnome....like others have said, the best explanation of its kind.
Very good explanation of how GNOME is supposed to be used!
I appreciate the quality of this video and explanation, however I almost completely disagree with the premise that Gnome has somehow made improvements to a typical user's workflow. We've all been trained for many years by Apple and Microsoft (mostly) to see a computer screen as a visual representation of a desktop, and for most people that includes juggling multiple projects and tools ("pens, pencils and paper clips") in quick succession. For someone like myself, who needs to continually and quickly refer to and transfer information between a browser and spreadsheet, vanilla Gnome is a usability disaster that has to be functionally transformed to be useful. Change for change's sake is usually not a great idea.
Great video! One suggestion though, you use the term "desktop" to refer to what others (KDE, Win) call the desktop as well as what Gnome calls "workspaces". That might be confusing to s newbie. As you point out Gnome doesn't really have a *desktop* but places/spaces/areas where you do your work: *workspaces*.
Thanks! I've been using Cinammon on Mint for a couple of years now but I was thinking about trying something else on my work laptop. KDE was kinda intuitive but confusing a lot and looking like Windows. So wanted something else. But Gnome was a bit confusing too initially. Because I just didn't understand the idea behind it and how to use it. Yes, there are a few odd things but I started to like it and it makes using a computer easy again.
Nice how you explain the huge problem with Gnome: it expects you to work in a certain way and only works with a specific paradigm that does no necessarily fit to the actual work you have to do. Because how you work is not only depending on "how you're used to work for so long", but also on the actual work you have to do.
Because we all of course know, that there is lots of work/tasks to do, for which you need several apps open at the same time and easily switch between them and always see where they are without needing to press a key, wait for an animation, just to see where things are, and then spend the time to get to that app.
I mean, even only using a handful of different apps, I have to have several PDFs open to check sources and literature. And that not only in PDFs, but also in the web, and you need those because you are writing a paper and thus have a LaTeX editor or at least LibreWriter open ... and thus the entire way the Gnome developers think you should use the desktop, goes out the window.
So yes, for everyday non-job related work at home, Gnome works fine, but if you have an actual office job and don't work as a developer, then you need at least the material-shell extension, that even more re-thinks how a desktop works while at the same time stay useful for any kind of work you have to do.
Hmmm...., Ambros just explained why Gnome is the way it is, and I think he made a very good explanation about it, btw in case you haven't noticed , you can have multiple apps/task on a single gnome desktop too.
i use windwos linux and mac almost everyweek and my my personal favorite is gnome worflow im fast im productive and just more fluent around my work, i dont know what people are talking about and why they hate it
isn't gnome like using android in the sense that the traditional desktop screen is gone? i feel some similarity with windows 8's approach then, but in a more less-flexible way.
I'm an Apple user but my bottom bar is relatively clean :D Commad+Space ftw
Thanks for this smart, clever and necessary video. Wel done. Il linked to my Cross-Platform Keyboard Shortcuts repo/howto
Is there a video on various desktop environments. People mention what they have and like, but where do you get to see them and know them before deciding on purchas? Thanks for this video!
This seems like a good idea, but... There are people who do just one thing at a time?
Very useful video to understand the thought process behind Gnome! Thanks for creating it, it really opened my mind.
Thanks for that. I have been using KDE plasma on Manjaro, but I was thinking of switching to Debian for more stability. I think I'll give vanilla Gnome a proper try.
papervm is a pretty cool extension that transforms your desktops to a scroll based tiling manager, i can be laggy sometimes but it adds so much to the gnome expreience, it's like having desktops within your desktops, y'all should give it a try
The idea of having a one to one relationship between a window and workspace desktop seems to be less than optimal to me.
I may have been misleading a bit. It's not so much about one window for one workspace, but more for one task for one workspace. I routinely have multiple windows open at a time on a single workspace depending on the task. The main thrust is discouraging people from minimizing windows to a bottom bar. If a program isn't needed it shouldn't be hidden, it should be closed. This decreases visual clutter on the desktop and creates a cleaner working environment for the tasks you actually need to complete.
@@ambros470 is there a way to limit alt+tab functionality to the windows in the current workspace? I find that when I try to switch I usually end up in another workspace instead which is very annoying
@@nunosdonato Yes there is, In settings under "Multitasking", on the bottom on the page there is a section "Application Switching", there you can choose that Alt-Tab only shows windows opened in the same workspace
@@nunosdonato also there is the default shortcut Alt+Esc, which circles trough windows in the current workspace only.
I'm very confused. My job revolves around about 10 windows that I constantly need to swap around, like every two minutes, because infos from window 1 are read and used in window 2, then window 3 infos need to go into window 2 but on another file that is also opened... and I don't see how Gnome could make this more fluid than... Windows.
Windows seems actually more functionnal, I can instantly swap between programs, see what is opened or not without altering my main view to access a menu to start a program, minimize them, right clic app shortcut to select a file to open which will allow me to have multiple sessions of the same app opened with different data...
To mee, Gnome as you present it seems very monotasking, like very good for artists or people doing code. Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but I don't see how I could work with constant task interruptions in such an environnement.
The biggest frustration I have with gnome right now is their ethos and the intersection of ultra wide or dual monitors. For a single, 16:9 or less aspect ratio or around there screen, it's great. It breaks down real quick the moment you stray from it
A lot of hate towards some hypothetical "MacOS users" who are using their computer wrong all the time. I'm on Mac right now, my dock has 5 apps pinned, and it is always hidden unless I bring my mouse down. "Activities" in Gnome is just "Mission control" in MacOS, it looks exactly the same, the only difference here is that I only go there to rearrange my windows, to access them or switch between them I can just use the dock, where Gnome needs a separate action for it. MacOS also lets me minimize or hide windows I don't need currently, which Gnome also eliminated. And it also has the Stage Manager, that allows me to focus on one task and switch between windows with a single click every time.
I was using Linux for the longest time, moved from gnome 2 to Unity to gnome shell and it distracted me constantly, I never got used to it. Switching from unity to windows to macos was absolutely effortless. Having an idea for organizing windows in a consistent, novel way doesn't automatically mean that it's a good idea. Gnome's idea isn't good.
Helpful. Coming to Gnome from Cinnamon, taking a bit of getting used to but going to persevere for a while.
It's a little weird at first. I came from using budgie for about 5 years. My suggestion is to learn the shortcuts. Gnome is very keyboard centric, but it doesn't really tell you. Also, the default workspace management shortcuts are a little obtuse, since they use arrow keys, so changing that is a big improvement
Wow, musescore, I respect that!
Is it possible to have the same window open on more than one desktop/workspace?
I love Gnome, especially after gnome 40. I just switched to Fedora from Ubuntu so I now have the "vanilla" Gnome experience for the first time ever. Also on Ubuntu I already adopted the vanilla workflow for the most part it seems (at least, I always just hit Super key, search for app and hit enter) and only had a minimal collection of apps pinned to the sidebar.
The only thing I still need to get used to a little bit: the no minimize button. I still have to get in the habit of when I'm done with an app and need to do something else, I either need to move that app to a different workspace or just close it I often am like confused for a second on what to do with the app haha. Or the quickest way to get focus back to an already open app while both are maximized on the same workspace. Guess alt + tab is your friend here but on Ubuntu I just clicked on the sidebar. I really need to let go of some old habits still haha.
@ambros470 for the last point: how is your workflow regarding that? So multiple maximized apps on the same workspace and your need to quickly switch to another one. Alt + tab? Super + click on the app? Another elegant solution or just make sure to more effectively use workspaces so this rarely happens?
The various WORKSPACES above the icon list - can you customize the backgrounds to different images or colors or etc?
Today, when I am back home from the office, I will try it on my computer.
10/10 video thanks
But isn't Windows like that where you're not distracted by the taskbar or other icons ?
When your screen is open to the full text document, to you only see the taskbar with its icons when you when you move your mouse over it and it pops up.
Never used gnome,
but now I understand why it's hated,
and I also think gnome would be productive for me.
Only thing I miss from Gnome, is a way to make a proper tiling desktop that resizes windows automagically and allows me to split or resize to percentages or pixels.
This, and treat every screen as a separate desktop, and I would be a happy camper with Gnome.
Ideal work case: When pressing super, I can then hjkl to navigate to the window I am looking for. Pressing w followed by r resizes the the width of a window to a percentage, e.g. w30r makes the window width (actually, entire current column) 30% of the screen. likewise, h30r resizes the window to 30% the size of the screen, and W300r resizes the Window to 300px width while H300r resizes the height to 300px. super or enter ends command mode.
This type of heuristic makes it dead simple to do tiling.
Same here i do not like gnome, yet this video is awesome.
i just wish it were more aesthetic. it's very flat, and grey. i could get used to the workflow, but i need to theme it and customise it to make it feel elegant, but as soon as that process starts, the whole environment quickly starts showing glitches and rough edges, particularly when transparency gets involved, rounded corners, etc. I'm not saying everybody has the same concerns, but it would be great if it would be more robust and accommodating as far as system theming goes, and/or offer some more controls and alternative and modern aesthetic choices that are polished and well implemented.
Do I always have to click on activities to access a program???
No, you can double tap the super key (windows key) or you can use the hot corner.
thanks for talking to us like we are stupid! I bet you have so many friends.
I feel, still to this day, just as I did years ago when GNOME 4 came out... The GNOME devs have never had to reference other documents while word processing or building something. This video is super pretentious. I hear "Legacy" when it comes to someone's workflow and it's just very obvious the person hasn't actually come up with a real solution to people's needs. Instead wanting to enforce their vision of how someone should work on them.
Despite what a lot of people claim, you can have 2 applications open at the same time. He has a web browser and word processor open at 6:23, which fulfils your "reference other documents while word processing" use case.
@@shaunpatrick8345 What if I want them side by side at 50:50 ratio with both windows active?
@@chetan_naik you can use window snapping for that, with either mouse or keyboard.
I was a Linux user back in the 90s (Slackware).. and decided to try Linux again. I am a VFX artist, and Windows has been great for that kind of work. When I installed Rocky 9.1, and installed Gnome. This was the desktop environment I was exposed to. Just like this video. I actually thought that I screwed up the installation and tried to installing again... obviously the same results. This is such a horrible experience, horrible workflow for me, I can't do it.. 30 secs is all it took for me to say NOPE!!!
The only thing that bothers me is when I'm shutting down. I'm used to pressing win/meta/super key and hitting the shutdown button. Also I'm used to opening home folder or folder using super key + e. Any tips?
Quick question, .. when I copy a file in desktop folder, does not appear in the desktop.
( am I doing something wrong?).
So, why gnome still keep desktop folder if not in use?
You'll have to use the GNOME extension 'gtk4 desktop icons ng'
I'm confused. You say MacOS is made for "aesthetics" and is inherently against productivity. But… GNOME Desktop pretty much looks like MacOS right after they introduced the "Mission Control" view. When I hide the dock in MacOS, Mission Control works exactly the way GNOME's overview does, and MacOS has been that way for longer than GNOME has. Most of the drawbacks you've mentioned (cluttered docks, etc.) are just user preference. Part of me wonders if the reasons why people don't "get" GNOME are the same as the reasons people don't "get" MacOS. Another part of me wonders how many people "get" the UI of their OS anyway. Most of the people I know using any of these environments (MacOS, Windows 10/11, GNOME, KDE) often use them inefficiently: tons of icons on the bar, dozens of windows on a single desktop, dozens of icons on the desktop, etc. They look at the way I use MacOS and Windows as though it were entirely foreign.
Mission Control and Gnome 3 were both introduced in 2011, but Gnome combines search and the apps grid into the Overview whereas Mission control does not have those, at least not in 2011.
He said the information constantly visible at the bottom of the screen is fundamentally anti-productive. Mac has that by default, but Gnome hides it until the user needs it. When Gnome users are working, everything is out of the way, and when they are context-switching everything is brought into view by a single button.
Makes sense to me. I hate extraneous items on my desktop.
Make totally sense your point of view!
I thought I do something wrong, but after watching this video I start to suspect the Gnome environment is somewhat out of touch with the users. I can live without a constantly visible drawer/tray/toolbar/docker, that's far from the issue here.
1) I would like to jump between my windows without spending time organizing them. I see that on your status bar or whatzit (the tray Gnome decided is not diatracting), you have your applications showing, which I do not have on Fedora 40.
2) The desktop is useless. It's an image background to organize your open windows. I would like to organize more than just open windows on them. Seems pretty intuitive to put files, applets and launchers on your desktop. Since they are hidden by open windows, I do not see how those would be distracting. I can't seem to have a file shirtcut for my documents on the desktop or the app drawer, which means I have to dig out my doc to start to work on it.
On second thought, my confusion with the Gnome environment is second to my confusion with why the most popular Linux distros are shipped with this clearly experimenting design by default. Are they really want to keep the normies out or something?
I don't know a reason to put files, applets and launchers on the desktop if they're going to be hidden by open windows. You'd have to move the windows to use the files etc. Gnome's Files app lets you "bookmark" special folders and "star" special files, making both quickly accessible. The notification panel has applets, though most developers don't use that, but it has weather, world time and calendar from the respective Gnome apps, and has media controls when media is playing. Launchers go in the dash/dock or the apps grid. Everything is in its right place, and very accessible.
I think the thing you can't see in Fedora 40 is the dash - the bottom panel with app icons. Press the Windows key to reveal it, or fling the mouse to the top left corner, or swipe up on the touchpad with 3 fingers.
@@shaunpatrick8345 The fact that the windows have no heads to grab them, or that the content of inactive windows on the screen can be interacted with instantly goes against the idea that you are in control of your screen, so misclickable fixed desktop elements would be right at home for the sake of easier access.
Meanwhile the requirement to pull up the window management and app selection interface every time I want to access my open window #69 or access my favorite app not only introduces a compoundling number of clicks, but causes real confussion as your content on screen shrinks or vanishes momentarily during that. This is super cobcentration breaking.
All in all my current opinion is thaz the environment looks slick, but in functionality it is the worst of both worlds. I came to know the prevalence of Gnome in popular distros is at least partly due to the fact that it works well in a touchscreen environment. However I believe that tablet compability should not be built on the detriment of desktop utility.
so since everything is hidden when working on a task, is there a way how to pin the clock or timer, or do you have to go to activities to see the time?
How do you feel about something like Pantheon that is somewhere in the middle between like Gnome and MacOS?
Pantheon feels a bit dated to me to be honest. Also Elementary OS is mostly irrelevant at this point and last I tried it's pretty tough to get pantheon working well on Arch.
@@ambros470 I do really like the workflow and look of Pantheon honestly.
Look wise I can definitely see how it looks “dated” to you but I quite enjoy it. I’m personally not a fan of Adwaita at all lol.
Hopefully Elementary OS can survive even if for there to be a little more choice in the community. We have quite a few desktops that are trying to be Windows but not that many that are really trying to do their own thing (outside of the Window Manager space anyway)
I do not have much negative to say about Pantheon but I do have quite a bit negative to say about Elementary. Not having flathub enabled by default being the big one, I am sure that has scared away a lot of casual users from them.
I used GNOME briefly. Then the garbage that was Unity. Then GNOME again. Then KDE. Of the choices available, MATE has been my preference for several years now.
Thanks for the explanation. One question - what are you doing when the pile with dots indicators pops up? I've never seen it on my Fedora 36 system, but it seems very handy
ctrl+alt+arrow key left/right. that's the shortcut to switch workspaces from keyboard only and the pile of dots represent the desktop/workspace u r switching to
This video reminds me of Steve Jobs saying people didn't how to hold their phones.
It's why Ihave Gnome. I want the DE to get out of my way. My workflow is more efficient. I second everything you said.
I am on a laptop and use 3 finger swipe to swich workspaces.
So....installing reapack and sws extensions in reaper..using gnome ? will gnome show me the resource folder so that i can drag and drop reapack into it...ir do I need to learn how to find the folder, find the file, move the file to the folder using command line?
While I get your explanation for Gnome's approach, and I think you explained it well, I don't think it's for me. Coming from the Mac I miss being able to spread icons on the desktop for the simple reason that icons let me think about documents. Gnome seems to require me to think about applications. I don't organize my workflow and thinking that way. And while your observation about the Mac dock getting overloaded with apps is correct, in practice, I'm not sure Mac power users even look at the dock that much. I keep mine hidden and launch apps either by double-clicking on a document, or by simply hitting command-spacebar and typing the first few letters of the app I want to launch. Due to RSI's I need to minimize mouse use, and much to my surprise I find I can drive the Mac interface more easily from the keyboard than I can Gnome's. Gnome is very pretty, though.
You can open a document in Gnome by typing the first few letters of its name in the overview screen. The Files app lets you bookmark important folders, such as those for projects you're working on. You can reorder the list of bookmarks to represent the priority of each project. So it can be document-centric if you want it to be.
Please make a video about Audio Music / production on Linux
THAT "theory" of gnomes about an empty desktop is NON- distracting is STUPID--- moving to each "tasK separately is STUPID.. the whole thing is IDIOTIC....NO ONE with a desk has everything hidden away so they have to open a da.... drawer to FIND a stapler or a pen- or ruller- or... they just don't.. the whole thing is STUPID.
Gnome Desktop is great.
Phenomenal and very informative video! thx
Hot edge at the bottom would solve 90% of my need for dash to dock!
I used to use an extension called Dock from Dash by fthx, which is basically autohide for the dock. But after a while I found it's easier just to use vanilla Gnome.
Thanks for the Video
Guys can someone tell me how do I save multiple workspaces. Like for work it should save certain application in certian layout, for entertainment different application in different layout?? Are there any extension for this
Oh! So that’s how it should work...
The systray isn't there for aesthetics. It's there so I know specific background programs (for me, my VPN and the file sync client I use) are doing their job and to grant me immediate access to them if I need to alter something. Can I use gnome without extensions? In theory, sure. Will I use gnome a day after I lose access to functioning systray extension? No, probably not. Now to be fair, I don't need a lot of extensions and I largely enjoy gnome but I'd love for gnome advocates and developers to stop talking shit about systray. I will bastardize KDE or Cinammon into a second rate imitator of Gnome with a systray before I use Gnome without a systray.
@@exiledmystran it's been a while since I made this, I don't remember what I said specifically but I don't necessarily disagree with you at this moment. The problem isn't that systray is ugly. The problem is that systray is just bad design both from UX and accessibility points of view.
I was a programmer before I became a tech journalist, and later a visual artist. I've worked as a UI designer for a few moons too when I was still in the industry. So I see the following problems:
1. It expects you to work the way it wants you to work. But the truth is, 99% of users only launch a browser. So why not allow users to have 1 such icon shortcut on the main bar, or the desktop? Why do we have to do 3-4 clicks instead of 1 to find the app we want from the app menu, while 99% of the time it's just the same app we load? Gnome seems to think that its environment is made for people who use 4-5 apps daily, and compartmentalize between them. In reality, the majority just use 1 app. Even in most businesses!
2. Virtual desktops/workspaces are not what people want. Mac OS X tried that. If that idea was to work with the public, it would have worked in 2004, when Steve Jobs was demoing it at the Apple Events in SF (I was there for some of them as a tech journalist back then) and he was jumping up and down with passion for that feature and its amazing animations. Guess what: normal users SHRUGGED at the feature after the initial enthusiasm, and today that feature is barely used by OSX users.
3. Windows and Mac also have shortcuts. 99% of users never learn anything more than the copy/paste shortcut. Why? Because they don't want to. People are lazy and busy with other things rather than having to memorize shortcuts. Forcing them to learn shortcuts in order to be faster than with the mouse, is just a futile exercise. People are VISUAL, not tactile. This is something that computer and OS manufacturers were learning hard in the 1980s. And here we have Gnome in the 2020s thinking it knows better.
4. What about people with a single arm? Are these expected to do multiple clicks with their one hand and mouse (since they can't do shortcuts) while it could have been simpler with fewer clicks? I know that Gnome traditionally has made a big deal about their accessibility support, but they only support it extraneously, not in a fundamental way.
Finally, think of cellphones. They also have a single-app at a time interface, reminiscent to Gnome's "workspace" idea. And yet, their desktop is full of icon shortcuts, not an empty screen. And going from a virtual desktop to another is a flick away. Changing apps? also a matter of a few flicks. Instead, Gnome wants to base that experience into keyboard shortcuts that are fundamentally separated from the actual visual element of the screen. Basically, Gnome is trying to do something that requires a different input medium to feel optimized (I don't know, maybe thought-driven UI). But keystrokes ain't it.
Ubuntu tries to remedy the gnome experience a bit, but it's still a weird interface. KDE is pure bloat, and the other smaller environments don't really matter at this point. The only one I've seen that is logical, is Linux Mint's Cinnamon. But that one doesn't support Wayland...
1. Why would you need to see a launch icon for the main app that's constantly open anyway? It's not like we shut down everything every day and reopen in the morning, usually it's just suspend, so you keep going from where you left.
2. I won't say for most users, but I see even my 12 yo son uses workspaces on his Mac, and I never taught him that, it's something he learned by himself.
3-4. Shortcuts are not mandatory, one can do everything with just mouse in gnome. Shortcuts are for geeks who love doing everything from their beloved keyboard.
I used pop os now and I kinda agree. I tried to use vanilla modern gnome (fedora) before and Its unusable without the dock, at least before this video is recommended I now see how it was supposed to be used. The way it is designed to be used is not obvious unlike windows / mac os, no even xfce is better. The best thing about gnome is the extensions, anyone could make it however they wanted. I do hope I could save my setup easily in a GUI like app so I could share my setup to everyone that wanted to (and it looks ok and usable imo).
@@thedeemon I've never seen anyone other than myself use workspaces. People act like I'm a magician when they see me using them. It's cool that your son uses them. That's cool. That still doesn't mean that people use workspaces. They don't. Not really.
If you use only 1 app, you don't need a taskbar taking up a chunk of the screen.
If you only use 1 app, put it at position 1 in the dash and open it with Windows+1. But if you install web apps you can press the windows key and type the name of the app, and you can move them to different workspaces to group them by task. You don't have to do that, but you can.
Nobody is forced to use shortcuts, and the workspaces can have more than one app in them. The video shows what _can_ be done, not what _has to_ be done.
Phones have an apps grid under the apps, Gnome has one above the apps, so it doesn't need a messy desktop. Gnome's workspaces are a flick away if you use a mouse or touchpad, and that's as connected to the screen as you can get without actually using the screen. The experience is not limited to keyboard shortcuts, that's just the most efficient way to use it. If a phone had a keyboard it would be quicker to press a menu key and type an app's name than to scroll through the list of apps.
My problem with gnome in general is that it "wants". I don't need my computer to want, or feel, I need it to do what I tell it to do. The fact that their most popular add on: dash2dock isn't included with the DE as an optional toggle because gnome FEELS like you shouldn't want it really rubs the wrong way and makes me feel like the DE wasn't designed by people trying to make my life easier, but my some pretentious aholes with something to prove. KDE doesn't want to do anything other than what I want it to. I can make it look and feel just like gnome or windows and everything in between, it's my choice because it's my computer. KDE is everything I love about Linux, while gnome feels like everything I hate about mac and ios.
Can you make your workflow completely keyboard centric like you would when using i3+rofi?
Yeah there are a few extensions that can get you there. The basic ones you'd need is arcmenu which has an option for a krunner style app launcher and popshell which functions as a twm.
@@ambros470 thank you brother. Once you get used to a twm you fly but I've been meaning to change things a bit. I'll give it's try
What about multi-monitor?
NIce video.🙂
Thank you!
GNOME is what Windows 8 failed to do.
Introducing a mobile like environment for PC users that felt made for a PC.
I get the philosophy and it’s ok if you like to work in that way. My main complain is the way gnome organizes installed applications. I still like to have my software organized in a tree-like clear categories, easy to find using logic, not in a mobile-like bundle of boxes. I don’t see how this mobile paradigm is good for productivity…
The most productive way of opening apps is to type their name in the overview screen, or even just type a task or a category. When I type "diff" I am shown an icon for an app which displays differences between text files, and also an icon for one which shows differences between videos. Neither has "diff" in its name. When I type "spread" I get Calc, the Libreoffice spreadsheet app. "Email" gets Geary, "internet" gets several web browsers, etc.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
It's cute how you try to spin lacking basic functionality into a feature.
Hell nah, hard disagree
It is not just being "used to".
I first thought that GNOME default was made with usability in mind but honestly it just looks like some naive purist's wet dream or something
I constantly have to think more to do the same things.
Conceptually it might sound neato and all that but in practice, it simply doesn't come through.
And no, switching between different apps is not a "distraction". Never once did I ever feel that on Windows so that is either a misinterpretation or if that really was the spirit then it sounds unfounded imo
It's not the act of switching that is the distraction, it's the array of coloured buttons constantly visible at the bottom the screen which you keep there, taking up space, just so that you can switch without having to alt+tab. If you auto-hide them they become an annoyance rather than a distraction, when they pop up if your mouse hits the hot zone.
It looks like reinventing of the wheel to me, very unintuitive. This is for niche users not for the larger audience.
gnome has never worked for me, buggy, broken store, hard to use ui, and why do I have to install many extensions to fix it
... it's very awkward to press Alt, Control and Shift with one hand and mouse on the other hand unless you are a multi-limb alien then you're okay...