Only one thing I am scared of is bem devs crumble under pressure of numerous fans demanding racing features in proper way cause there is so many big yt crators hyping fanbase up on this idea
Don't be, because from what I've been hearing, and from what I understand, they're gonna go full-sim on everything, including racing. So one day it will definitely be better at simulating racing.
I’ve been on team Beam for as long as I’ve been playing. The fact that a bump can ruin your alignment, your engine can blow up if you drive it too hard, brakes wear down with hard pressure, you can brake your driveshaft/transmission without clutching in a manual car is literally the recipe for a Sim Racer.
all beam is missing is official tire wear and damage sure you can puncture and pop them but you cant lose traction from wearing down the treads (though it can if they wanted to)
@@Ponlets I did not know this. If only it could get liscensed and put on consoles. Although I'm not sure why you need a liscense to put cars in a game in the first place if the cars are sold to the public and it's also free advertising. Like the reason I want a Mazda MX5 right now is cuz I grew up playing Gran Turismo 3
@@javianbrown8627 car companies just want to leech as much money as possible from companies,and it takes bribing to get them to even allow you to have a little bit of damage (hence why games with good crash physics rarely ever have licensed cars,with the years going by the car companies want less and less realistic crashes)
@@Damian-cilr2 that part I know. I don't know why a liscense is even needed to put a copy of a car in a game. If anything the companies should want to sponsor the game and give them money. Do that have movies pay to use their cars as well?
i remember watching a Le Mans lap guide by a driver and at some point he mentions "avoid this bump on the left side, you do that for 24 hours your floor is gone" and yeah sims don't have any of that. It's always eating kerbs for breakfast and driving 110% of the car with no managing
F1 games do that very well, at some point if you eat certain kerb too much the game tells you "ok mate so you've done that too much now your floor is damaged", and this is one of the biggest strength in F1 it is the possibility for the cars to actually have damage on kerbs, after hitting other cars etc.
missing bumps in karting is key too, i do my fair share of it and trust me in low to the floor cars your ass will feel the burn and if you hit it at the right angle, good luck having kids :)
also here's a PS: project cars 2 (god rest it's soul) had actual engine wear management for cars with high turbo settings. This was done differently from games like assetto corsa since the engine damage was displayed from 0-100% and you could calculate the turbo pressure and engine wear according to the number of laps. You could have a high turbo setting for a long race and do lifting and coasting before braking zones to avoid damages and etc
@@SilkCutJaguarXJR-I mean, that's not realistic either is it? High boost just means the engine is more likely to fail catastrophically. One of the big killers of high boost cars is stress on the rods whether it be through pushing past strength limits, rod cap bolt stretch killing the bottom end etc. and when they go the engine fails immediately and generally without warning. I guess you could say that maybe the engine wasn't built well and the valves are lifting under boost causing blow by and gradual loss of compression as the valves are burnt by exhaust, but in a racing car you can be damn sure the valve springs/head bolts are specced for the job. Take drag racing, where there are numerous cars built with junkyard LSs huffing a large turbo. Sometimes the engine will last three months of drag racing, others will blow immediately, there are some making 800hp completely stock that will just not blow up. High boost is a craps shoot. What I'm saying is that just because a game simulates *something* it doesn't mean it's done well or applies in the real world. Beams infamous/famous for crash damage, but in reality one of its most impressive features is its ability to model and act on engine process, something nothing else seems to be able to do. If I push an engine hard in Beam and it blows, I know why. Just having a scaled 'wear' counter ticking up is not quite the same thing.
i’m very in favor of mechanical sympathy being required in sims. it’s realistic, it teaches good habits, and it makes for more equal racing. nothing is more annoying than wondering why i’m so slow in GT7 online time trials then realizing you HAVE to slam the car down from 6th into 1st gear going into a corner to be competitive with all the top times that do the same, despite the fact that you’d blow your transmission or send a piston through your block doing it irl. weird abuses of the physics engine like this demotivate me from being “competitive” cuz that’s just not how ppl drive real cars.
I like the way assetto corsa does it. You can't abuse your car, but you can just a little. Makes the experience of learning a lot more fun and not as frustrating
I know I would be frustrated if miss shifts destroyed my engine in AC but the fact is that when I release the clutch pedal too soon are press it to late when shifting in BeamNG and it grinds the gears just slightly it makes me react very similarly to when I do the same in my actual car. The difference is that I wouldn't drive my actual car nowhere near as hard as in BeamNG so the damage is much smaller but still. It makes you care about your virtual car in a way.
Well but I a real car there is a kinda mechanical link between your shifter and the clutch (as long as there is load on the gears you will not move the shifter but starting to apply same force before you press the clutch so the shifter moves as soon as the clutch disconnects the engine that is sadly not possible But I would recommend to adjust the dedpoints on the clutch in Beam since Standard is the griping point stretched over the complete axis but at max I would us 10 to 20 % for that in the middle that feels more natural for me and it helps to not grind the gears 😅
This is one of many aspects in which F1 games are being underappreciated, as they do have a certain degree of that mechanical sympathy within their career mode. You have an allocation of engine parts that you need to manage. Parts are being worn with laps driven with them, and they lose performance below 50% of their condition. So, for example, you're going to switch to older, more worn parts for practice sessions, so your fresh parts are not being worn before competitive sessions. But not only that - parts can wear more or less depending on your driving. If you stay in too high revs or downshift too early - more wear. If you stick behind other car, have less cooling and overheat engine - more wear. If you crash or hit something, you can induce some extra wear as well. If your battery is under 10% charge or over 90% charge - it gets more wear. Brake fade is also simulated, although it's downtuned to the point it's incosequential - but you can make it more significant by modding the game files. There's actually quite a few simulation featuers in F1 games that are implemented, but downtuned for accessibility.
I learn this in RBR when I was a teen, one small bump in tree and your whole rally is gone for good. BTW some add-on in MSFS, like A2A or Maddogs require same level of mechanical care, overstress the engine or skip the weekly check on your oil lever will cause you major problem down the line.
agreed, a lot of people just don't know how to drive and be aware of the other drivers on the track and that's why i haven't been on any racing rooms with other people in a long time. it got old really fast having a 14 yr old screeching in his mic and damn near blowing my ear drums out.
There’s a certain level of justice in implementing this idea into racing sims. I’ve been rammed so many times that I’d just be happy to see the hyper aggressive drivers dnf themselves for trying to ram anyone else that actually drives faster than them
An AI-assisted ban system would be more effective than allowing bad actors to use damage to ruin their competitor's races... sure they'd wreck themselves too, but the mission is still accomplished - we see this in iRacing all the time.
Without proper stewards to handle penalties for the rammers, the rammers would just figure out how to "game" the damage physics model in order to take out another racer while minimizing damages to their own car. It's very easy to pit maneuver another car off the road while keeping your car mostly undamaged, cops do it on police chases when there's no risk for bystanders and other traffic cars.
Tbh i agree i feel like a driver should be frustrated or mad at themselves for destroying their own cars weather its a mishift flatspot gernading your own engine or anything else most pros know the feeling of destroying their own work
Love rock crawling in beam, you can feel when you've bent a rod or knocked the steering out of alignment, the shudder of the tyres fighting to grip, there's a lot or management that goes with mechanical sympathy and its managing that until everything comes together enough to lay down a monster lap
I play BeamNG with clutch and realistic gearbox mode, when I started doing my driving license the instructor thought I had driven before and thought I was a liar. Yes it was a 35+ years old car that ran on methane gas and you had to step on the gas halfway in order to start going. There is no such thing as learner's permit in my country, many people drive illegally at empty places and villages since parents don't believe in the driving school system.
I agree with you Beamg is brilliantly fun but I couldn't think anything more painful mixing this gem with iracing, oh my poor irating would take a beating 😢😅
Fun fact: an Automation/BeamNG youtube called Fillman86 did a 24hrs of LeMans race in BeamNG that was streamed some months ago, inviting numerous BeamNG video creators to create their LMH cars that would be competing, also building LMP2 cars for the drivers they selected for that team
I always thought the manufacturers wouldn't allow damage in the games due it "ruining" their brand or whatever. Like cmon, i know it's a porsche but you what happens when it goes into a wall at a buck eighty? The same thing that happens to every other car.
Its a lot more of an arcade game than a sim racer but this is one of the things that makes me love Wreckfest banger races so much. It not quite mechanical sympathy as most of the damage is done by others or yourself hitting each other but its something you have to deal with. Especially in the rowdier servers.
i would at least say this is important for any endurance related event. richard burns has a very hardcore damage model and its very important to your driving style
I would love a game that keeps track of all your wear on the car. Think it would be cool if you start the game with like $10,000 and work your way up and if you run out of money and need a motor rebuild well might be time to restart.
Check out Street Legal Racing: Redline. It's quite old but it does this very well. You'll find yourself crashing in the first few races & having to restart because you can't afford to repair or buy a new car lmao
Yeah so many parts on a car will wear if you drive them hard. I use my Mercedes SLK for all sorts of hooning and drifting, the engine mounts have had it now. All that constant beating on it, engine banging of the redline while doing some donuts, going from max throttle to max braking causing the engine to be suddenly loaded and unloaded over and over again eventually caused the engine mounts to go. The engine is tuned as well making quite a bit more than stock power, so those mounts have to hold quite some forces. I can replace them, but at this pace they'll probably need replacing again after a year. Same goes for the entire suspension. I totally expect having to replace bushings eventually from all the sideloading. And that's just how it is. When you use a car as a racecar, it's gonna wear like a racecar. Especially if it's one not designed to be beaten on continuously. I will with 100% confidence say that I don't think my SLK will make it one lap around the Ring without breaking down in it's current condition. I'd like to take it to drift events again, but last time I tried drifting it the play in the engine mounts was so much I tore the boost pipe off right at the the throttle body. It just wasn't flexible enough to cope with how much the engine could move.
Also, iRacing's NDM does model conrod stretch and oil thinning, but they also model individual component wear in the suspension, etc for most of the lineup. Not soft body physics of course though, but Maybe you should hop on and smash some stuff up for the fun of it :D
The whole time I was watching this video I was thinking “how does he not know he’s describing iracing??” And before anyone jumps on us with “iracing is too expensive” - sure, it may be too expensive for you and that’s FINE. But you have to acknowledge that when you’re sitting there wishing for features, wishing you weren’t in a race with a bunch of children playing bumper cars, wishing you could have good races outside of your weekly league night, you should still acknowledge that iRacing exists and solves those problems fora price.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad A single competitive weekend in spec Miata can easily cost you $2,500. iRacing is cheap AF considering it's basically a WoW subscription + individual car models that keep track of how much rotational inertia the flywheel has + you don't have to sit in a drivers meeting being lectured on how you almost killed the corner works last weekend.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad Glad I wasn't the only one thinking he's just describing iracing lol.. Sure I get its far from perfect but it's always done a good enough job of punishing car contact or hitting things giving you enough damage to effectively remove you from the race.
One of the best axamples of good mechanical damage was or maybe still is, Richard Burns Rally, i remember hitting a tree with about 10kmh, destroyed the cooling and hat a engine failure because of it a few kilometers after. I also remember you could damage every driveshaft if you slide into a rock or something solid, so i had a Car where only the front right and the rear left driveshaft were intact and i had to finish the stage that way. Or my codriver telling me at 140kmh downhill that the brake system is dead, so i crashed into the trees without brakes but i remember the E brake still working. Also a friend was doing a fance stage and killed the engine completely, but he was able to put it in N and rolled down the hill, finishing the stage. Another thing that was possible, if you crash, sometimes the gearbox got stuck in the gear it was at impact, so you have to fiddle around with the shifter to build a bit od torgue to get the car rolling again, driving the rest of the stage with 3 gear or so. I never saw a damage system as complex but simple at the same time, i mean it was all code, most things were visible but you felt whats wrong with the car so you drove with that in mind. And yes i wish that modern sim racing sould have a detailed damage system like that. Its sad that a rally sim from 2005ish does this better than anyting 18 years later.
While yeah, i would also like to see more mechanical simulation in sims, I also don’t think it’s top priority. I mean, do some formula races in iracing, the smallest contact already means it’s race over for you. Get hit from behind? Bye-bye rear wing, then you either slowly drag yourself around the track, risking spin-out and even more damage due to how you have no rear wing or tow back. Towing back takes about (depending on the track i suppose) 2:30, then fixing the wing takes a few minutes, in formula 3 about 6:30 (these are not timestamps even if youtube thinks thy are :)). If you have other damage, it’s another few minutes. You might as well forfeit by the time it’s done. You run into a wall? Say a heartfelt goodbye to a tire. Unfixable, you have to retire the car. Sure, it’s not soft body realistic damage, but the consequences are just as damning. I read it so often on reddit already that people stay away from open wheels due to how the smallest contact can end your race, so they race gt3 instead, because there you can bump and just go on. So while yeah, i would love to see more accurate damage simulation (i believe the flat spots are way too lenient in f3 in iracing, you can really abuse your tires without consequence). But let us have rain first pls. :) As for the other sims, lets get some useful multiplayer matchmaking systems first as besides iracing they all severely lack in that area unfortunately. :(
The lack of crash and mechanical damage has been the two things that have kept me being from being interested in racing games/simulators over the past 20 years
what is also important, what you can hear in realife is the engine sound. In Beamng, a real-time engine simulation with the engine simulator is expected to be added.
Beam is one of my favourite driving games. I was always a big fan of rally and used to play dirt rally non stop, but it always felt so cheap because in rally mechanical sympathy seems to be an absolutely huge part of the dicipline, and in that game you can just get away with abusing and crashing the car with barely any punishments. Beam doesnt have many real rally missions or any way to do rally with a codriver, yet in my eyes it still beats other rally games just due to how realistic it is. Every corner you are pushing hard but still trying to look after the car, trying not to damage suspension or alignment or the engine. That feeling is so much more fun than a game where i can hit a tree at 70 mph and it just lets me continue.
having gone to my first ever trackday, this is also immediately the first thing i realized. i didnt have to worry about cooling down my brakes and engine, and the fact that ive heat cycled my tires and now they are going to be 4 times louder now on the highway😂
Had you played dirt rally 2.0? It is really good when it comes to damage. Owerusage of handbrake? It will break. Hit a wall infront - radiator damage, owerheating, drop in power. Hit a ditch? Suspension damage. You need to take care of your car, so it will care for you
I was also discussing something similar to a friend, Its like a mix of sim racing and car mechanic simulator. Where you need the money to buy the upgrades and repairs for your vehicle. This way it will promote better and safer driving for everyone. Kinda like how safety rating is in iRacing.
I think sim racing would benefit of detailed damage models, especially from crashing or bumping into each other as this directly would penalize reckless driving. I often been surprised that after an hard impact there wasn't any or only minimal damage on the car, where in reality one could have just parked the car aside the track and walk back to the trailer park.
By the way, I would love to see you try iRacing. I've recently started my iRacing career and I've got to say that it's almost as good as AC, but the brakes feel more alive
I used to play iRacing religiously, but these days I renew my subscription, play for a few days and then forget about it lmao. You're right though, it is good!
I do really like the new mechanical damage simulation in AMS2. I was letting my friend try it and I had to remind him not to ride the clutch as it would eventually wear out. Some little quirks to be mindful of while racing.
I love the concept nothing more exciting that taking care of your car to win a race At the end of the race, the winners are the ones who made it to the end
Maybe just create game modes like other games do, for example, ranked. That way if people who buy said game can decide the type of experience they want to have. I love this idea but I am well aware there are a great bunch that may not be so appreciative if this was set to a norm.
great video! its a shame most people dont realize the accuracy and the potential of bemng because they dont know how it actually works in simulating every bit of the car
They had mechanical damage in Indy 500 on the Amiga and it was even better modeled in Grand Prix Legends for the PC, I have seen a camshaft fly out of a blown engine on that 1998 game. It's been around quite some time.
they should just give every racing sim a normal and hardcore mode so they can choose which to play, main issue normally is alot of official car manufacturers dont like their cars doing this
At 3:09-3:14 that is the east london circuit in South Africa. It hosted F1 very long ago. It also the place i learned to drive. And i remember going the opposite direction into that corner on the clip doing 80km/h and i was so scared and happy at the same time with my dad next to me laughing at he.
Personally, I find games like BeamNG more to my liking, as there is more at stake when you drive. However, when it comes to casuals, they don't tend to like games that have risk, consequences, or a state of permanence. These niche games are aimed at a hardcore player base, rather than games aimed at casuals.
See i take stuff like this the same way i take most game mechanic ideas and just say "make it an option, not an obligation" an option that can and probably would be used always by official racing orgs and for fans of that very real feeling of having to care about the vehicle while also not being in any serious danger because of it. And an option that people like me would just leave off most of the time and only use it every so often because of wanting to just race without sweating the details. It's a good idea to implement imo and it'd really up the stakes in sim racing leagues
totally agree half of the battle should be not pushing your car to hard and killing it like in real life, a lot of sim racers have not changed in ten years the least they can do is model temperature, racing on a dubai circuit in 45c weather should result in easy engine overheating and brake and tyre wear massively increased not to mention the lack of bhp due to the heat also
I once accidentally almost visited a ditch, then car started turning and hopped back in the road in a sideways four-wheel slide at 100km/h, first thing that came to my mind was "o Gran Turismo, save me" (that and instinctly countersteering and keep throttle pressed, so the Civic doesn't go on the oncoming lane). I haven't played that many actual sim racers, but even some less sim-oriented driving games give some understanding about what cars do in extreme situations :3 Also 1NSANE, BeamNG and developing crash physics for my own racing game have made me think more about the effects of having a high speed collision, so I tend to drive more cautiously ;>
Finally an educated, nuanced take on damage modeling that isn't just the cliche "Racing games need better damage!!" screaming you get from people who just want to smash things. One of the big roadblocks to having such a thing in sim racers is the plain, unshakable fact that licensed manufacturers either do not want their cars represented poorly with damage in the game, or simply won't provide the data for the game devs to spend time modeling every bit underneath. Multiply this effort across every car make and model in the game and you can see why they don't spend their time on it. BeamNG is able to be so in-depth because of its generic vehicles and totally unique physics engine that trades ordinary sim racing realism for a different kind of driving realism.
Great video. I do drifting mainly, not racing, but even though CarX offer you easy tamdems and stuff - a prefer drifting solo in BeanNG, its just such and exquisite game and it should stay it way, id pay to play like iRacing but for BeanNG just to stay authentic as it is now!
AMS2 will blow your motor, or spread your clutch all over the track in a thin film if you don't shift properly, or knock your car out of alignment if you bounce kerbs, that sort of thing, pretty good mechanical modelling.
I absolutely love the idea, but my fear would be devs implementing this as a live service and having virtual insurance you can pay real world money for on some kind of conversion.
I think the main thing holding back any devs from adding simulated damage in a big way is the casual player.. I know racing Sims aren't necessarily FOR a casual player. But a game developer wants as many people playing the game as possible, and they may think that adding those features might scare off the more casual players that don't want that level of realism. This is just my thoughts so I could be totally wrong, but I've seen it happen with other games. There are more casual gamers than hardcore race enthusiasts 🤷
true, but let's be honest: in sims like assetto corsa competizione there's a lack of 'fatal damages'. You can crash at 250km/h on a concrete wall, and you would have just some bad mechanical damage that still will allow you to continue to race, and repair in a 1 minute pitstop. That's justthe opposite of realistic. Looking at the classic lobbies on these kind of games, i can understand the reason of that, with so many people that just likes being a kamikaze in order to punish you for being faster than them, or for trying to let you stop the surpass with maneuvers that are a violation of the geneve convention. Still, this light level of damages issomething that i honestly don't like and kills a bit the thrill of the race, and kill the realism of the race that this kind of sims are trying so hard to achieve.
@@tritekk I believe that such feature makes more sense in a season/championship format, or even old cars. The randomness and lack of control over such feature is what drive people away of it, despite beign realistic.
When AC was developed Stefano streamed most the coding on youtube and he also spoke about why there is no visual or realistic mechanical damage; licensing for Cars ain't easy and most of the manufacturers just don't want their cars shown off as a wrecked mess.
The only issue with Racing Sims adopting BeamNG like physics and crash models is you'd only be able to have a few highly detailed cars running, it's why BeamDevs had to create lower quality cars for the Traffic cars when they introduced the traffic update, and why the max number of spawned traffic cars is capped off at a certain number. Too many cars with highly realistic damaging and physics bogs down even the higher end PCs at some point.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 Idk, as of right now with the recent updates after the 6 months since I posted my comment, I think it'll be possible. I can load into a heavy map like the C1 Loop mod up to 20 highly detailed non-Traffic specific vehicles. So it very well may be possible. If the dev's can conquer the Online Multiplayer aspect, along with better Tire Thermals and proper Aerodynamics we could have insane online racing.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 The Bolide saw some improvements, but without steer assist it's still pretty darn hard to control. The new 200bx is a lot better as well. I hope the keep the classic muscle cars as they are because they handle like cars of their respective era. The Sunburst has always been pretty good. Though it would be really cool to see cars with the aero-kits get sucked down as they gain speed. Sadly at a certain speed the aero kid of shots its self and the cars become floaty and lose traction.
On fsx A2 simulations planes had engine wear and damage and also frame and gear. That was more than 10y ago. I flew the comanche 250 all Over europe and didnt care about any other plane
I was trying to see just how much abuse the cars in Project cars and Dirt Rally 2.0 could take by trying to do things like Over Rev the engine or stay in the Red too long but the only way I could cause any actual mechanical damage in Project cars was to straight up money shift it.
I actually won my first race in iRacing because the leader, who was a few skill levels above us mere rookies, made a mistake at turn 1 on the last lap and shifted down too early and blew up the engine. But I quickly quit iRacing because it's so realistic it makes the escape from reality that gaming is too stressful... and it costs waaayyyy to much to get content and then have access to said content
racing's great in beam. even if people have minimal contact, after a few laps, most cars are wobbly and can't keep it straight perfectly because their alignment is dead.
Theses are the reasons that I call out people that praise racing sims all the time & the reasons I’d rather play games like Wreckfest. Because the sims don’t simulate real driving at all while small mistakes in other games will make you pay just like real life.
I thought NetKar Pro had this at one point along with a full damage mode, hello 30 minute wait when I'm an idiot and total my FTarget by getting entirely out of line and trying to drill through a wall with the car. Took that 30 mins to walk the track and got back, then promptly stuck it in the pit wall coming out of the garage. Cue another wait while the timer ticked down. Was kind of humiliating really
To use another real life example of mechanical sympathy… one huge problem that a lot of street cars have are poorly baffled (or no baffles at all) oil pans. On reasonable tires this isn’t really an issue, but then you get the proper +width slicks, aero, and a suspension to match and now all that extra cornering force pushes the oil away from the pickup tube and woopsie doopsie a rod goes through the block because the oil pump became an air pump. Because I like my cars to last I put an overall limit on tire grip. I’d rather do track days in a car with less grip and less power than spend time and money dealing with a blown engine.
I think this is most important for rally games. Where's the fun, when you can't wreck your car beyond recognition? Or even better: finish the race with a car that looks barely drivable!
Dam I wish sim racing was around before I got my licence. Well sim racing was around but pretty much there was no force feed back it was bungee. And if u wanted force feedback it was a fortune. Even the bungee Logitech I had for GT it only lasted a day before it wouldn't work, same happened to my mate 2x and that was Logitech too. Just after I got my licence Logitech released the first 3 pedal gear shifter forcefeed back wheel. (If the g25 was the original it would have been that, if not the one before that. N they were like 300 bak then more than my weeks pay lol (im talking late 90s early 2000s)
@@TolmalionYou have not played BeamNG if you’re saying cars drive like shit. It’s the most realistic drive simulator out there. The driving physics are way better then in AC in almost every way. Prove me wrong.
"There's no reset button in real life" yea, and that's why we all play racing games. If I wanted to lose my livelihood (or my life) then I would enter into a real race with a real car. Since I like to live in a house (and just live in general) I want a game that doesn't realistically model everything about real life. If there existed a simulation that was so realistic that it was indistinguishable from real life, then you wouldn't need the game at all because you would have real life. Point being there are always concessions to realism that you make in a game. Two things specifically that will always be simulated are your life and money spent. Those are on the extreme side of the spectrum, sure. But it's to amplify the point that there is a place on the spectrum where a Sim sits; somewhere between real life and pong. And a sim will never be strictly on one side of that spectrum or the other. A Sim will always sit somewhere in between and the goal isn't to make it as close to one side of the spectrum as possible, but instead find the closest point to one side of the spectrum by which the game (which is what it is) is still fun for the most people possible.
I have to wonder if the lack of damage modeling in racing games has more to do with the online experience than anything else. Namely, the fact that racing would SUCK if there is no good way to properly weed out drivers that cause the most damage. If you want racing to be done in public lobbies where anyone can attend, the game would need to have a system to determine fault, severity, and possibly even whether an accident was caused by mistake or intent. If the system is too lenient, then bad drivers are just going to get mixed in with the good ones. If it's too strict though, good drivers who made an honest mistake could get bumped down way further than they should be. I'd imagine it's a hard balance to strike. It might be something really only feasible on games geared towards organized play, much like how high-level racing in real life isn't done by random people. It's a bit of a shame though, because I'd love to see it. With almost 1,000 hours in BeamNG.drive, one of my favorite things to do is just push a car to it's limits. Whether it be on busy streets, offroad or a rally setting, it is immensely satisfying to wreck when it's the one thing you're trying not to do. Witnessing the carnage from one simple mistake recontextualizes every moment where you're just barely keeping it together, lap after lap. Or put more simply: The risk makes it all the more rewarding.
I like playing beamng and maybe its the g29 being so budget but the cars just dont feel good to drive at all and i have fun doing a little bit of driving around but dont think i could race in the game.
As in, the force feedback? Keep in mind different steering systems with different kinds and levels of power assist are implemented, along with types and sizing of tires. And you can get way better driving and gripping cars by doing your own setups, alignments, etc
Racing sims should simulate you having to tow your car back to pits, loading onto the trailer, and working to pay off repairs when you crash or break down😂
Beam literally simulates basically everything about a car, hence the realism of the vehicles. Most people only play it for "funny crash simulator" and fail to see that basically every aspect of the car is simulated.
Please point me at the nicest open wheelers of the beamng and ac, granted i probably more like the high downforce, the 2007 mlenna (if thats how vrc spells it) around kyalami has been my favorite
I am on the opposite end of this argument - instead of giving Sim Racing artificial limitations to make it more like real driving, what we're missing in the industry is a sim that fully embraces the lack of "durability issues" to create an experience that would otherwise be impossible in real life. Cars and tracks that break the laws of physics, locations that we could never race in for comfort/safety reasons, etc.
I can't remember where I read this, or who is making it. But I heard that a pretty large sim development studio is making an off-world rally game where you race on different planets! (hopefully i'm not leaking something that's under NDA lol). I agree though, simulation driving games that aren't based in reality could be pretty popular.
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Only one thing I am scared of is bem devs crumble under pressure of numerous fans demanding racing features in proper way cause there is so many big yt crators hyping fanbase up on this idea
I have the firm belief that they will do whatever they want.
Don't be, because from what I've been hearing, and from what I understand, they're gonna go full-sim on everything, including racing. So one day it will definitely be better at simulating racing.
they wouldnt care
@@goobner420the fact that this game is still just costing 25 is INSANE
Beam could cost 100 and i would still be in line for it.
I’ve been on team Beam for as long as I’ve been playing. The fact that a bump can ruin your alignment, your engine can blow up if you drive it too hard, brakes wear down with hard pressure, you can brake your driveshaft/transmission without clutching in a manual car is literally the recipe for a Sim Racer.
all beam is missing is official tire wear and damage
sure you can puncture and pop them but you cant lose traction from wearing down the treads (though it can if they wanted to)
@@PonletsI agree, I’m sure it’s on there radar in a future update
@@Ponlets I did not know this. If only it could get liscensed and put on consoles. Although I'm not sure why you need a liscense to put cars in a game in the first place if the cars are sold to the public and it's also free advertising. Like the reason I want a Mazda MX5 right now is cuz I grew up playing Gran Turismo 3
@@javianbrown8627 car companies just want to leech as much money as possible from companies,and it takes bribing to get them to even allow you to have a little bit of damage (hence why games with good crash physics rarely ever have licensed cars,with the years going by the car companies want less and less realistic crashes)
@@Damian-cilr2 that part I know. I don't know why a liscense is even needed to put a copy of a car in a game. If anything the companies should want to sponsor the game and give them money. Do that have movies pay to use their cars as well?
i remember watching a Le Mans lap guide by a driver and at some point he mentions "avoid this bump on the left side, you do that for 24 hours your floor is gone" and yeah sims don't have any of that. It's always eating kerbs for breakfast and driving 110% of the car with no managing
Not iracing. Run over the wrong curb or bump in a car with weak suspension and you’ll break/bend all sorts of stuff!
F1 games do that very well, at some point if you eat certain kerb too much the game tells you "ok mate so you've done that too much now your floor is damaged", and this is one of the biggest strength in F1 it is the possibility for the cars to actually have damage on kerbs, after hitting other cars etc.
missing bumps in karting is key too, i do my fair share of it and trust me in low to the floor cars your ass will feel the burn and if you hit it at the right angle, good luck having kids :)
also here's a PS: project cars 2 (god rest it's soul) had actual engine wear management for cars with high turbo settings. This was done differently from games like assetto corsa since the engine damage was displayed from 0-100% and you could calculate the turbo pressure and engine wear according to the number of laps. You could have a high turbo setting for a long race and do lifting and coasting before braking zones to avoid damages and etc
@@SilkCutJaguarXJR-I mean, that's not realistic either is it? High boost just means the engine is more likely to fail catastrophically. One of the big killers of high boost cars is stress on the rods whether it be through pushing past strength limits, rod cap bolt stretch killing the bottom end etc. and when they go the engine fails immediately and generally without warning. I guess you could say that maybe the engine wasn't built well and the valves are lifting under boost causing blow by and gradual loss of compression as the valves are burnt by exhaust, but in a racing car you can be damn sure the valve springs/head bolts are specced for the job. Take drag racing, where there are numerous cars built with junkyard LSs huffing a large turbo. Sometimes the engine will last three months of drag racing, others will blow immediately, there are some making 800hp completely stock that will just not blow up. High boost is a craps shoot.
What I'm saying is that just because a game simulates *something* it doesn't mean it's done well or applies in the real world. Beams infamous/famous for crash damage, but in reality one of its most impressive features is its ability to model and act on engine process, something nothing else seems to be able to do. If I push an engine hard in Beam and it blows, I know why. Just having a scaled 'wear' counter ticking up is not quite the same thing.
i’m very in favor of mechanical sympathy being required in sims. it’s realistic, it teaches good habits, and it makes for more equal racing.
nothing is more annoying than wondering why i’m so slow in GT7 online time trials then realizing you HAVE to slam the car down from 6th into 1st gear going into a corner to be competitive with all the top times that do the same, despite the fact that you’d blow your transmission or send a piston through your block doing it irl.
weird abuses of the physics engine like this demotivate me from being “competitive” cuz that’s just not how ppl drive real cars.
Yup, look at the daily race at fuji this week and look at the top time, absolutely kills the transmission going into turn one
I like the way assetto corsa does it. You can't abuse your car, but you can just a little. Makes the experience of learning a lot more fun and not as frustrating
Play iracing, you can't abuse it, you can blow your engine
@@taddytee5677 i would if it wasn’t insanely expensive lol
@@censoredialogue Honestly, just pay what you wanna drive, focus on what you wanna do. Can save you mad bucks
I know I would be frustrated if miss shifts destroyed my engine in AC but the fact is that when I release the clutch pedal too soon are press it to late when shifting in BeamNG and it grinds the gears just slightly it makes me react very similarly to when I do the same in my actual car. The difference is that I wouldn't drive my actual car nowhere near as hard as in BeamNG so the damage is much smaller but still. It makes you care about your virtual car in a way.
Well but I a real car there is a kinda mechanical link between your shifter and the clutch (as long as there is load on the gears you will not move the shifter but starting to apply same force before you press the clutch so the shifter moves as soon as the clutch disconnects the engine that is sadly not possible
But I would recommend to adjust the dedpoints on the clutch in Beam since Standard is the griping point stretched over the complete axis but at max I would us 10 to 20 % for that in the middle that feels more natural for me and it helps to not grind the gears 😅
Muye: I dont have such a weakness
Mf grinds gears to dust despite having a mega expensive sim racing rig
I like how oliver tree just starts playing out of nowhere in the middle of the video lmao
it's got to be done
@@TSRB w
This is one of many aspects in which F1 games are being underappreciated, as they do have a certain degree of that mechanical sympathy within their career mode. You have an allocation of engine parts that you need to manage. Parts are being worn with laps driven with them, and they lose performance below 50% of their condition. So, for example, you're going to switch to older, more worn parts for practice sessions, so your fresh parts are not being worn before competitive sessions. But not only that - parts can wear more or less depending on your driving. If you stay in too high revs or downshift too early - more wear. If you stick behind other car, have less cooling and overheat engine - more wear. If you crash or hit something, you can induce some extra wear as well. If your battery is under 10% charge or over 90% charge - it gets more wear.
Brake fade is also simulated, although it's downtuned to the point it's incosequential - but you can make it more significant by modding the game files. There's actually quite a few simulation featuers in F1 games that are implemented, but downtuned for accessibility.
I learn this in RBR when I was a teen, one small bump in tree and your whole rally is gone for good.
BTW some add-on in MSFS, like A2A or Maddogs require same level of mechanical care, overstress the engine or skip the weekly check on your oil lever will cause you major problem down the line.
agreed, a lot of people just don't know how to drive and be aware of the other drivers on the track and that's why i haven't been on any racing rooms with other people in a long time. it got old really fast having a 14 yr old screeching in his mic and damn near blowing my ear drums out.
I think realism in crashes and mechanical failures would be insanely beneficial in the long run.
There’s a certain level of justice in implementing this idea into racing sims. I’ve been rammed so many times that I’d just be happy to see the hyper aggressive drivers dnf themselves for trying to ram anyone else that actually drives faster than them
An AI-assisted ban system would be more effective than allowing bad actors to use damage to ruin their competitor's races... sure they'd wreck themselves too, but the mission is still accomplished - we see this in iRacing all the time.
Without proper stewards to handle penalties for the rammers, the rammers would just figure out how to "game" the damage physics model in order to take out another racer while minimizing damages to their own car.
It's very easy to pit maneuver another car off the road while keeping your car mostly undamaged, cops do it on police chases when there's no risk for bystanders and other traffic cars.
Tbh i agree i feel like a driver should be frustrated or mad at themselves for destroying their own cars weather its a mishift flatspot gernading your own engine or anything else most pros know the feeling of destroying their own work
for me it was hard braking repeatedly on a downhill road that made me realise the importance of mechanical sympathy when the rotors began warping lmao
Crashes deliver a shock factor because most times i dont really expect them. I wish too they were done better
Love rock crawling in beam, you can feel when you've bent a rod or knocked the steering out of alignment, the shudder of the tyres fighting to grip, there's a lot or management that goes with mechanical sympathy and its managing that until everything comes together enough to lay down a monster lap
I play BeamNG with clutch and realistic gearbox mode, when I started doing my driving license the instructor thought I had driven before and thought I was a liar. Yes it was a 35+ years old car that ran on methane gas and you had to step on the gas halfway in order to start going. There is no such thing as learner's permit in my country, many people drive illegally at empty places and villages since parents don't believe in the driving school system.
I agree with you Beamg is brilliantly fun but I couldn't think anything more painful mixing this gem with iracing, oh my poor irating would take a beating 😢😅
you mean a beaming?
😂 a proper beaming
Fun fact: an Automation/BeamNG youtube called Fillman86 did a 24hrs of LeMans race in BeamNG that was streamed some months ago, inviting numerous BeamNG video creators to create their LMH cars that would be competing, also building LMP2 cars for the drivers they selected for that team
Wreckfest is pretty good for mechanical empathy.
I always thought the manufacturers wouldn't allow damage in the games due it "ruining" their brand or whatever. Like cmon, i know it's a porsche but you what happens when it goes into a wall at a buck eighty? The same thing that happens to every other car.
That what you see but to them they don't want too much damage in their car.
Its a lot more of an arcade game than a sim racer but this is one of the things that makes me love Wreckfest banger races so much. It not quite mechanical sympathy as most of the damage is done by others or yourself hitting each other but its something you have to deal with. Especially in the rowdier servers.
i would at least say this is important for any endurance related event. richard burns has a very hardcore damage model and its very important to your driving style
There is also a mod for beam that add tyre temp sims.
i love it for drifting on beam
I would love a game that keeps track of all your wear on the car. Think it would be cool if you start the game with like $10,000 and work your way up and if you run out of money and need a motor rebuild well might be time to restart.
Check out Street Legal Racing: Redline. It's quite old but it does this very well. You'll find yourself crashing in the first few races & having to restart because you can't afford to repair or buy a new car lmao
bmws would suck to drive because after a small session something catastrophic would go wrong 😂
@@TSRBI check this out cheers
Yeah so many parts on a car will wear if you drive them hard.
I use my Mercedes SLK for all sorts of hooning and drifting, the engine mounts have had it now. All that constant beating on it, engine banging of the redline while doing some donuts, going from max throttle to max braking causing the engine to be suddenly loaded and unloaded over and over again eventually caused the engine mounts to go. The engine is tuned as well making quite a bit more than stock power, so those mounts have to hold quite some forces.
I can replace them, but at this pace they'll probably need replacing again after a year. Same goes for the entire suspension. I totally expect having to replace bushings eventually from all the sideloading. And that's just how it is.
When you use a car as a racecar, it's gonna wear like a racecar. Especially if it's one not designed to be beaten on continuously. I will with 100% confidence say that I don't think my SLK will make it one lap around the Ring without breaking down in it's current condition.
I'd like to take it to drift events again, but last time I tried drifting it the play in the engine mounts was so much I tore the boost pipe off right at the the throttle body. It just wasn't flexible enough to cope with how much the engine could move.
My Summer Car sounds like a perfect match. One little thing: you have to build the entire car first.
Also, iRacing's NDM does model conrod stretch and oil thinning, but they also model individual component wear in the suspension, etc for most of the lineup. Not soft body physics of course though, but Maybe you should hop on and smash some stuff up for the fun of it :D
The whole time I was watching this video I was thinking “how does he not know he’s describing iracing??”
And before anyone jumps on us with “iracing is too expensive” - sure, it may be too expensive for you and that’s FINE. But you have to acknowledge that when you’re sitting there wishing for features, wishing you weren’t in a race with a bunch of children playing bumper cars, wishing you could have good races outside of your weekly league night, you should still acknowledge that iRacing exists and solves those problems fora price.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad A single competitive weekend in spec Miata can easily cost you $2,500.
iRacing is cheap AF considering it's basically a WoW subscription + individual car models that keep track of how much rotational inertia the flywheel has + you don't have to sit in a drivers meeting being lectured on how you almost killed the corner works last weekend.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad Glad I wasn't the only one thinking he's just describing iracing lol.. Sure I get its far from perfect but it's always done a good enough job of punishing car contact or hitting things giving you enough damage to effectively remove you from the race.
One of the best axamples of good mechanical damage was or maybe still is, Richard Burns Rally, i remember hitting a tree with about 10kmh, destroyed the cooling and hat a engine failure because of it a few kilometers after.
I also remember you could damage every driveshaft if you slide into a rock or something solid, so i had a Car where only the front right and the rear left driveshaft were intact and i had to finish the stage that way. Or my codriver telling me at 140kmh downhill that the brake system is dead, so i crashed into the trees without brakes but i remember the E brake still working. Also a friend was doing a fance stage and killed the engine completely, but he was able to put it in N and rolled down the hill, finishing the stage.
Another thing that was possible, if you crash, sometimes the gearbox got stuck in the gear it was at impact, so you have to fiddle around with the shifter to build a bit od torgue to get the car rolling again, driving the rest of the stage with 3 gear or so.
I never saw a damage system as complex but simple at the same time, i mean it was all code, most things were visible but you felt whats wrong with the car so you drove with that in mind. And yes i wish that modern sim racing sould have a detailed damage system like that.
Its sad that a rally sim from 2005ish does this better than anyting 18 years later.
BeamNG taught me mechanical sympathy, that game is soooo crazy about how easy you can destroy a car.
While yeah, i would also like to see more mechanical simulation in sims, I also don’t think it’s top priority. I mean, do some formula races in iracing, the smallest contact already means it’s race over for you. Get hit from behind? Bye-bye rear wing, then you either slowly drag yourself around the track, risking spin-out and even more damage due to how you have no rear wing or tow back. Towing back takes about (depending on the track i suppose) 2:30, then fixing the wing takes a few minutes, in formula 3 about 6:30 (these are not timestamps even if youtube thinks thy are :)). If you have other damage, it’s another few minutes. You might as well forfeit by the time it’s done. You run into a wall? Say a heartfelt goodbye to a tire. Unfixable, you have to retire the car. Sure, it’s not soft body realistic damage, but the consequences are just as damning. I read it so often on reddit already that people stay away from open wheels due to how the smallest contact can end your race, so they race gt3 instead, because there you can bump and just go on.
So while yeah, i would love to see more accurate damage simulation (i believe the flat spots are way too lenient in f3 in iracing, you can really abuse your tires without consequence). But let us have rain first pls. :)
As for the other sims, lets get some useful multiplayer matchmaking systems first as besides iracing they all severely lack in that area unfortunately. :(
5:00 and this is why i love nr2003, mechanical issues are an actual thing, your engine could die right at the start of a race
So good to see miatas and clios from the championship in video
The lack of crash and mechanical damage has been the two things that have kept me being from being interested in racing games/simulators over the past 20 years
iracing has it tap the wall too hard now your tire is flat/tie rod broke
Project cars 2 I had a horrible crash and my whole front 2 wheels fell off and couldn't move the car, and it was pretty well dented up
We just need to support Wreckfest so they can expand. they have amazing damage models and great physics.
@@beanteam848ifyWreckfest's damage model is far from realistic. The engine can be in the passenger seat and your car can still drive without issue.
what is also important, what you can hear in realife is the engine sound. In Beamng, a real-time engine simulation with the engine simulator is expected to be added.
Beam is one of my favourite driving games. I was always a big fan of rally and used to play dirt rally non stop, but it always felt so cheap because in rally mechanical sympathy seems to be an absolutely huge part of the dicipline, and in that game you can just get away with abusing and crashing the car with barely any punishments. Beam doesnt have many real rally missions or any way to do rally with a codriver, yet in my eyes it still beats other rally games just due to how realistic it is. Every corner you are pushing hard but still trying to look after the car, trying not to damage suspension or alignment or the engine. That feeling is so much more fun than a game where i can hit a tree at 70 mph and it just lets me continue.
there are some rally maps and codriver mods
How's Richard Burns on the mechanical sympathy department? It's been easily 7 to 10 years since I last played it.
Only thing i could rly miss is the skip barber
6:58 yeah I know something about it... still the Hyundai Elantra was a lot of fun 🙂
having gone to my first ever trackday, this is also immediately the first thing i realized. i didnt have to worry about cooling down my brakes and engine, and the fact that ive heat cycled my tires and now they are going to be 4 times louder now on the highway😂
Had you played dirt rally 2.0?
It is really good when it comes to damage. Owerusage of handbrake? It will break. Hit a wall infront - radiator damage, owerheating, drop in power. Hit a ditch? Suspension damage.
You need to take care of your car, so it will care for you
If Beams soft body physics were somehow combined with the new Arma engine, some serious magic could happen with a little elbow grease & some time.
I was also discussing something similar to a friend, Its like a mix of sim racing and car mechanic simulator. Where you need the money to buy the upgrades and repairs for your vehicle. This way it will promote better and safer driving for everyone. Kinda like how safety rating is in iRacing.
I think sim racing would benefit of detailed damage models, especially from crashing or bumping into each other as this directly would penalize reckless driving. I often been surprised that after an hard impact there wasn't any or only minimal damage on the car, where in reality one could have just parked the car aside the track and walk back to the trailer park.
By the way, I would love to see you try iRacing. I've recently started my iRacing career and I've got to say that it's almost as good as AC, but the brakes feel more alive
I used to play iRacing religiously, but these days I renew my subscription, play for a few days and then forget about it lmao. You're right though, it is good!
I do really like the new mechanical damage simulation in AMS2. I was letting my friend try it and I had to remind him not to ride the clutch as it would eventually wear out. Some little quirks to be mindful of while racing.
I love the concept nothing more exciting that taking care of your car to win a race
At the end of the race, the winners are the ones who made it to the end
Maybe just create game modes like other games do, for example, ranked. That way if people who buy said game can decide the type of experience they want to have. I love this idea but I am well aware there are a great bunch that may not be so appreciative if this was set to a norm.
great video! its a shame most people dont realize the accuracy and the potential of bemng because they dont know how it actually works in simulating every bit of the car
They had mechanical damage in Indy 500 on the Amiga and it was even better modeled in Grand Prix Legends for the PC, I have seen a camshaft fly out of a blown engine on that 1998 game. It's been around quite some time.
I’d like a big old rallycross pit that I can create my own tracks on using cones and barriers
they should just give every racing sim a normal and hardcore mode so they can choose which to play, main issue normally is alot of official car manufacturers dont like their cars doing this
At 3:09-3:14 that is the east london circuit in South Africa. It hosted F1 very long ago. It also the place i learned to drive. And i remember going the opposite direction into that corner on the clip doing 80km/h and i was so scared and happy at the same time with my dad next to me laughing at he.
Project Cars 2 has mechanical Failure option in Career settings and GRID has realistic crash damage and Rally games have realistic damage
Personally, I find games like BeamNG more to my liking, as there is more at stake when you drive. However, when it comes to casuals, they don't tend to like games that have risk, consequences, or a state of permanence. These niche games are aimed at a hardcore player base, rather than games aimed at casuals.
I hope one day there will be a vr mod for beamng
graphic requirements: 6090ti
@@TSRBi have 7800 xt. That good?
VR is currently in the game.
ur talking about my dream game. its mxbikes but u drive to the track in ur beamng truck and trailor, or u drive ur bassboat to the lake
See i take stuff like this the same way i take most game mechanic ideas and just say "make it an option, not an obligation" an option that can and probably would be used always by official racing orgs and for fans of that very real feeling of having to care about the vehicle while also not being in any serious danger because of it. And an option that people like me would just leave off most of the time and only use it every so often because of wanting to just race without sweating the details. It's a good idea to implement imo and it'd really up the stakes in sim racing leagues
totally agree half of the battle should be not pushing your car to hard and killing it like in real life, a lot of sim racers have not changed in ten years the least they can do is model temperature, racing on a dubai circuit in 45c weather should result in easy engine overheating and brake and tyre wear massively increased not to mention the lack of bhp due to the heat also
the closest I remember to mechanical failures in mainstream games was blowing up your engine at Drag Races in NFS Underground
I once accidentally almost visited a ditch, then car started turning and hopped back in the road in a sideways four-wheel slide at 100km/h,
first thing that came to my mind was "o Gran Turismo, save me" (that and instinctly countersteering and keep throttle pressed, so the Civic doesn't go on the oncoming lane).
I haven't played that many actual sim racers, but even some less sim-oriented driving games give some understanding about what cars do in extreme situations :3
Also 1NSANE, BeamNG and developing crash physics for my own racing game have made me think more about the effects of having a high speed collision, so I tend to drive more cautiously ;>
Finally an educated, nuanced take on damage modeling that isn't just the cliche "Racing games need better damage!!" screaming you get from people who just want to smash things. One of the big roadblocks to having such a thing in sim racers is the plain, unshakable fact that licensed manufacturers either do not want their cars represented poorly with damage in the game, or simply won't provide the data for the game devs to spend time modeling every bit underneath. Multiply this effort across every car make and model in the game and you can see why they don't spend their time on it. BeamNG is able to be so in-depth because of its generic vehicles and totally unique physics engine that trades ordinary sim racing realism for a different kind of driving realism.
We just need to support Wreckfest so they can expand. they have amazing damage models and great physics.
Great video. I do drifting mainly, not racing, but even though CarX offer you easy tamdems and stuff - a prefer drifting solo in BeanNG, its just such and exquisite game and it should stay it way, id pay to play like iRacing but for BeanNG just to stay authentic as it is now!
AMS2 will blow your motor, or spread your clutch all over the track in a thin film if you don't shift properly, or knock your car out of alignment if you bounce kerbs, that sort of thing, pretty good mechanical modelling.
I absolutely love the idea, but my fear would be devs implementing this as a live service and having virtual insurance you can pay real world money for on some kind of conversion.
F1 2006, hold my V10
*The engine becomes a torch if you go in reverse for too long, you can't even drive 1 kilometer (0.6 miles)*
The radiators are basically useless in reverse
I think the main thing holding back any devs from adding simulated damage in a big way is the casual player.. I know racing Sims aren't necessarily FOR a casual player. But a game developer wants as many people playing the game as possible, and they may think that adding those features might scare off the more casual players that don't want that level of realism. This is just my thoughts so I could be totally wrong, but I've seen it happen with other games. There are more casual gamers than hardcore race enthusiasts 🤷
true, but let's be honest: in sims like assetto corsa competizione there's a lack of 'fatal damages'. You can crash at 250km/h on a concrete wall, and you would have just some bad mechanical damage that still will allow you to continue to race, and repair in a 1 minute pitstop. That's justthe opposite of realistic. Looking at the classic lobbies on these kind of games, i can understand the reason of that, with so many people that just likes being a kamikaze in order to punish you for being faster than them, or for trying to let you stop the surpass with maneuvers that are a violation of the geneve convention. Still, this light level of damages issomething that i honestly don't like and kills a bit the thrill of the race, and kill the realism of the race that this kind of sims are trying so hard to achieve.
5:28
Those people would hate My Summer Car.
AMS2 do have something like that. Look it up.
its still a bit too forgiving imo
@@tritekk I believe that such feature makes more sense in a season/championship format, or even old cars.
The randomness and lack of control over such feature is what drive people away of it, despite beign realistic.
When AC was developed Stefano streamed most the coding on youtube and he also spoke about why there is no visual or realistic mechanical damage; licensing for Cars ain't easy and most of the manufacturers just don't want their cars shown off as a wrecked mess.
The only issue with Racing Sims adopting BeamNG like physics and crash models is you'd only be able to have a few highly detailed cars running, it's why BeamDevs had to create lower quality cars for the Traffic cars when they introduced the traffic update, and why the max number of spawned traffic cars is capped off at a certain number. Too many cars with highly realistic damaging and physics bogs down even the higher end PCs at some point.
That'll only be an issue if you're racing with more than 12 people at once.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 Idk, as of right now with the recent updates after the 6 months since I posted my comment, I think it'll be possible. I can load into a heavy map like the C1 Loop mod up to 20 highly detailed non-Traffic specific vehicles. So it very well may be possible. If the dev's can conquer the Online Multiplayer aspect, along with better Tire Thermals and proper Aerodynamics we could have insane online racing.
@@AFellowDoktuh The game does have decent aero on some cars, but others do need to be adjusted, yeah.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 The Bolide saw some improvements, but without steer assist it's still pretty darn hard to control. The new 200bx is a lot better as well. I hope the keep the classic muscle cars as they are because they handle like cars of their respective era. The Sunburst has always been pretty good. Though it would be really cool to see cars with the aero-kits get sucked down as they gain speed. Sadly at a certain speed the aero kid of shots its self and the cars become floaty and lose traction.
On fsx A2 simulations planes had engine wear and damage and also frame and gear. That was more than 10y ago. I flew the comanche 250 all Over europe and didnt care about any other plane
I was trying to see just how much abuse the cars in Project cars and Dirt Rally 2.0 could take by trying to do things like Over Rev the engine or stay in the Red too long but the only way I could cause any actual mechanical damage in Project cars was to straight up money shift it.
I actually won my first race in iRacing because the leader, who was a few skill levels above us mere rookies, made a mistake at turn 1 on the last lap and shifted down too early and blew up the engine. But I quickly quit iRacing because it's so realistic it makes the escape from reality that gaming is too stressful... and it costs waaayyyy to much to get content and then have access to said content
racing's great in beam. even if people have minimal contact, after a few laps, most cars are wobbly and can't keep it straight perfectly because their alignment is dead.
BTW vr support for beam has been added
Likely never gonna happen in a sim with licensed cars as manufacturers won't allow that much damage.
Theses are the reasons that I call out people that praise racing sims all the time & the reasons I’d rather play games like Wreckfest. Because the sims don’t simulate real driving at all while small mistakes in other games will make you pay just like real life.
I thought NetKar Pro had this at one point along with a full damage mode, hello 30 minute wait when I'm an idiot and total my FTarget by getting entirely out of line and trying to drill through a wall with the car.
Took that 30 mins to walk the track and got back, then promptly stuck it in the pit wall coming out of the garage. Cue another wait while the timer ticked down. Was kind of humiliating really
To use another real life example of mechanical sympathy… one huge problem that a lot of street cars have are poorly baffled (or no baffles at all) oil pans. On reasonable tires this isn’t really an issue, but then you get the proper +width slicks, aero, and a suspension to match and now all that extra cornering force pushes the oil away from the pickup tube and woopsie doopsie a rod goes through the block because the oil pump became an air pump.
Because I like my cars to last I put an overall limit on tire grip. I’d rather do track days in a car with less grip and less power than spend time and money dealing with a blown engine.
dude i've been sweating hard trying to setup proper offline ai races in beam for the past few days
I think this is most important for rally games. Where's the fun, when you can't wreck your car beyond recognition? Or even better: finish the race with a car that looks barely drivable!
Dam I wish sim racing was around before I got my licence. Well sim racing was around but pretty much there was no force feed back it was bungee. And if u wanted force feedback it was a fortune. Even the bungee Logitech I had for GT it only lasted a day before it wouldn't work, same happened to my mate 2x and that was Logitech too. Just after I got my licence Logitech released the first 3 pedal gear shifter forcefeed back wheel. (If the g25 was the original it would have been that, if not the one before that. N they were like 300 bak then more than my weeks pay lol (im talking late 90s early 2000s)
The F1 sponsor puns are godlike
Try Race Driver Grid, it may not be a true sim racing but the damage models are awesome
beamng for simulation can be compared to AC and iracing, beamng is the ultimate simulator
It drives like shit compared to AC.
@@TolmalionYou have not played BeamNG if you’re saying cars drive like shit. It’s the most realistic drive simulator out there. The driving physics are way better then in AC in almost every way. Prove me wrong.
"There's no reset button in real life" yea, and that's why we all play racing games. If I wanted to lose my livelihood (or my life) then I would enter into a real race with a real car. Since I like to live in a house (and just live in general) I want a game that doesn't realistically model everything about real life. If there existed a simulation that was so realistic that it was indistinguishable from real life, then you wouldn't need the game at all because you would have real life. Point being there are always concessions to realism that you make in a game. Two things specifically that will always be simulated are your life and money spent. Those are on the extreme side of the spectrum, sure. But it's to amplify the point that there is a place on the spectrum where a Sim sits; somewhere between real life and pong. And a sim will never be strictly on one side of that spectrum or the other. A Sim will always sit somewhere in between and the goal isn't to make it as close to one side of the spectrum as possible, but instead find the closest point to one side of the spectrum by which the game (which is what it is) is still fun for the most people possible.
The only thing sim racers need is proximity voice chat. Just imagine the insanity lmao.
I have to wonder if the lack of damage modeling in racing games has more to do with the online experience than anything else.
Namely, the fact that racing would SUCK if there is no good way to properly weed out drivers that cause the most damage.
If you want racing to be done in public lobbies where anyone can attend, the game would need to have a system to determine fault, severity, and possibly even whether an accident was caused by mistake or intent. If the system is too lenient, then bad drivers are just going to get mixed in with the good ones. If it's too strict though, good drivers who made an honest mistake could get bumped down way further than they should be.
I'd imagine it's a hard balance to strike. It might be something really only feasible on games geared towards organized play, much like how high-level racing in real life isn't done by random people.
It's a bit of a shame though, because I'd love to see it. With almost 1,000 hours in BeamNG.drive, one of my favorite things to do is just push a car to it's limits. Whether it be on busy streets, offroad or a rally setting, it is immensely satisfying to wreck when it's the one thing you're trying not to do. Witnessing the carnage from one simple mistake recontextualizes every moment where you're just barely keeping it together, lap after lap. Or put more simply: The risk makes it all the more rewarding.
Beamng is the ultimate sim IMO it's come a very long way. Nothing really gives you the feeling that beamng does
I like playing beamng and maybe its the g29 being so budget but the cars just dont feel good to drive at all and i have fun doing a little bit of driving around but dont think i could race in the game.
As in, the force feedback? Keep in mind different steering systems with different kinds and levels of power assist are implemented, along with types and sizing of tires. And you can get way better driving and gripping cars by doing your own setups, alignments, etc
When I picked up Forza motorsport 6 I started a habit if redtarting for the smallest of bumps not matter whT
Racing sims should simulate you having to tow your car back to pits, loading onto the trailer, and working to pay off repairs when you crash or break down😂
You forgot to mention AMS 2 which is a sim that makes you deal with mechanical sympathy. Not as much as Beam ofc but more than the ones you listed
i dont play that sim so it doesnt count
Beam literally simulates basically everything about a car, hence the realism of the vehicles. Most people only play it for "funny crash simulator" and fail to see that basically every aspect of the car is simulated.
Please point me at the nicest open wheelers of the beamng and ac, granted i probably more like the high downforce, the 2007 mlenna (if thats how vrc spells it) around kyalami has been my favorite
SRB uploading a Beam video, oh boy lmao
Gran turismo should partner up with beamng drive for gt8 and give it good crash physics
Apart from flat spots which are not simulated in BeamNG, what else is missing to be considered a racing sim?
1:42 is that a ford ka cup car please tell em how to get it. Been wanting to drive it in assetto for months.
acclubracing.wordpress.com/2023/01/29/enduroka-beta-now-available/
@@TSRB Thank you so much you are a legend.
What's the song at 3:30? I've been through your (awesome) playlist but didn't hear it?
I am on the opposite end of this argument - instead of giving Sim Racing artificial limitations to make it more like real driving, what we're missing in the industry is a sim that fully embraces the lack of "durability issues" to create an experience that would otherwise be impossible in real life. Cars and tracks that break the laws of physics, locations that we could never race in for comfort/safety reasons, etc.
I can't remember where I read this, or who is making it. But I heard that a pretty large sim development studio is making an off-world rally game where you race on different planets! (hopefully i'm not leaking something that's under NDA lol). I agree though, simulation driving games that aren't based in reality could be pretty popular.