How to Steer Your Battleship When You Can’t See Where You’re Going
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- In this episode we're talking about the battleship's helicopter in 1983.
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As a qualified after-steering watchstander, you have it exactly right, Ryan.
Was going to ask Ryan, but you sound like the right person to ask… was after-steering always manned or just during combat ops? What were your other duties in after-steering?
So not sure exactly how the surface fleet does it, but I am sure it is quite similar to subs.
When I was in, I one of the watch stations I stood was Auxiliary Aft, basically responsible for all the auxiliary equipment in the engine room (and some of the stuff in AMR-2)
Part of qualifying that watch was knowing how to take local control of the rudder and stern planes (there is no after steering on a 726 class) in the event of a casualty to either system. If the problem is solvable in a relatively short time it is who ever is the current on watch aux-afts problem. If the problem can't be solved "mas rapido" then some other aux aft qualified person will be summoned to releave the on watch aux-aft to his normal watch standing duties. (Until he becomes the off going aux aft, and likely takes over on the local controls)
Was always manned. One helmsman, one engineer on my ship. Other duties. Regularly test and exercise the alternative command paths and power paths and monitor the health of the system. Clean up hydraulic oil leaks and seawater leaks through the rudder posts.
On a smaller ship (my experience was on a Knox-class frigate), after steering was only manned during evolutions like entering/leaving port, general quarters (“battle stations”), UNREP, or other restricted maneuvering situations. During routine operations, it wasn’t manned, but a designated team could be called away immediately if there was a steering casualty. Being a small ship, this team could be on station ready for rudder orders in a minute or two at most. We didn’t have the pointer system NJ has here-we relied on sound powered phones to relay rudder commands from the bridge to after steering.
@@billpaine6241 I qualified on an LKA (Gator Freighter) where it was manned 24/7 underway. We used the pointer system just like NJ (ship was built around 1970) and also sound powered phones on the same circuit as the lookouts. Usually the AS helmsman was from 4th (weapons) division and with either an EM or HT also assigned.
Stood many an aftersteering watch. 99% sheer boredom. Occasionally an officer would make an appearance to see who was awake. Not being awake was not good.
Many ways to control the rudders. Multiple command signal paths from multiple helm locations, dial up telephone, and sound powered phones. They could command rudder positions or tell you to steer by a gyro-compass repeater. Multiple power sources for multiple electric hydraulic pumps, and manually cranked hydraulic pumps if the is no power. If the actual hydraulic system failed, there was a ginormous chain fall to haul the rudder yokes around. Luckily, never had to try the last option.
Ryan, LCDR USNR (Ret) here. That machine at 9:55, I don't know what it's called, as I've never seen a ship with one, but I can tell exactly what it does. All those markings on the outer dial are steering commands from the conning officer to the helmsman, and the inner dial is transmitting the course to to be steered.
For example, say you are presently going due north (course 000) and want to change course left to due west (course 270). If you were in the conning tower with the helmsman, you would say, "Left 15 degrees rudder, steady course 270." That tells the helmsman to turn the wheel until the rudders are 15 degrees left, and hold that until the ship is on course 270.
But if you're on the 05 level (above the bridge), instead of shouting, you turn the outer pointer to left 15, then the inner dial to 270. The repeater in the conning tower dings and that lets the helmsman know what to do.
To explain the other commands:
Amid=rudder amidships
Meet her=use the rudder to stop the swing of the ship, but you're not steadying on a course.
Steady=steady as she goes. Note what the ship's heading is at the time of the command, and steady on that course.
Ease rudder=reduce the amount of rudder you are using (e.g. go from 15 degrees to 5 degrees)
Stand=standard rudder. This depends on the situation
Hard over=move the rudder over as far as it will go (emergency only, has a good chance of jamming the rudder)
I strongly suspect it would be called a rudder order telegraph, to complement the engine order telegraph
My old watch station! Stood MANY hours on watch in aft steering station. Most of the drills conducted were taking local control and following a designated coarse. Usually Port rudder would follow Starboard rudder. If my memory serves me correctly there was 5 methods of steering the ship, one of which was the use of chain falls.
During my time aboard the carrier USS John C. Stennis CVN-74, I was down in starboard after stirring during sea and anchor detail as we were leaving San Diego for a training mission. As we were being pulled away from the pier, the tugs took us too far and we went over a sandbar. We didn't go aground, but we got close enough that we sucked tons and tons of sand into our cooling water induction. We lost all power. We had no way of steering the ship except for an emergency steering engine that had to be hand started. The machinist mate and I worked for about 15 or so to get it going. Once we did, power was restored and lucky we didn't need it. I was sweating bullets the whole time. We went back to the pier and it was several days before all the sand was removed and we could go back out safely. That was definitely a nail biter.
😊
About Japanese harbor pilots. There is a day by day history of the USS Missouri in the Bremerton Public Library. Late August 1945 a Japanese harbor master brought charts of Tokyo Bay with minefields and safe routes mapped out to the wardroom of the Missouri. He showed all of this information and helped the officers plan the Surrender Ceremony set for September 2.
It's amazing that the pilot was so accommodating. It's totally understandable that some Americans may be concerned about their trustworthiness immediately after the ceasing of hostilities, but I'm glad they honoured it.
I enjoy these “mystery solving” episodes
Once, coming back from a firework patrol on the Detroit River, heading to the home marina on Lake Erie we hit bad weather. Came out of the Livingston Channel heading for the Detroit River Light. With the rain and spray, couldn't see it. Of course, most of the channel buoys were unlighted spar buoys. So with the radar tuned in, I drove the boat down the channel looking at the radar screen and the blips for the buoys, not like I could see anything out the windows anyway - other crew were doing more physical lookout.
Not quite the same, but I was running on instruments until we could see the light, get past the light, and then get on a compass heading back in. A little bit stressful, right there.
Very interesting. Can you tell us what kind of ship was that?
@@danubiosalas4231 Sounds to me like either a fire dept or police boat, considering he mentions firework patrol
I hope Ryan gets some kind of reward for the work he does to bring this historic ship to folks like me and my children who would never have a chance to come and experience it otherwise
Living on the other side of the world, i agree
Getting Paid?????
@@berryrijnbeek5938 That and a seat at the table in Valhalla.
@@berryrijnbeek5938just like most of us working people i think Ryan deserves more cash. I think he goes above and beyond his duties.
Pretty sure being a curator is Ryan’s dream job, and Ryan is BNJ’s dream curator. “If you do what you love, you’ll never work a day in your life.”
You should absolutely do a video on Japanese harbor pilots during the surrender. That sounds incredibly interesting.
Imagine fighting a nation and then guiding one of it's most powerful weapons at the end of the war!
I agree... a video on Japanese harbor pilots during the surrender is an excellent idea!
They got nuked twice. US basically became god
Loving the Taney jacket. Living in Annapolis it’s a huge Navy town and have been on the Taney and Torsk numerous times. Great ship and boat to visit in Baltimore.
4 steering positions, only two of which have a view ahead. The battleship is a menagerie of weird and wonderful things!
Lori ellis is wierd
I hundred percent agree @F-Man
Keep in mind that the helmsman is usually receiving rudder orders and course to steer from a conning officer, who is usually stationed in a place with more visibility. If not within easy hearing distance, the conning officer will use a voice tube, sound powered phone, or some other method (like the pointer system shown in this video) to communicate with the helmsman, wherever stationed.
@@billpaine6241 Cunning Conning Officer
As a after steering operator you are correct, also there are 2 cables port and starboard cables that were checked prior to sea and anchor detail or going alongside for unrep or vertrep, we would steering checks with my DIVO and slow the ship to 10 knots and roll the rudders to 35 degrees and then swing to other side to 35 degrees and time it, test using both port and starboard cables
The 80s recommissioning must have been pretty amazing from a technical point of view . You have all the computer and modern technology alongside 1930/40s equipment . Basic principles using coils to induce the information in the receiver . Just as challenging in its own way and developed to make it as reliable and survivable as possible . The fact that it was still usable bears testament to that . I love the way Ryan is still trying to discover things and he is encouraging others to do so.
Finally had a chance to visit the museum this past weekend and can't speak highly enough about how well she presents. Y'all do a great job!
Incredible how much redundancy is in this ship. A testament to its designers who learned from ships and situations that came before. Nothing like this still exists in modern ships.
Different design philosophy which Ryan has talked about. In the era of the battleship there’s no way to stop a 16 inch shell so you’re going to take hits. In modern combat with lower radar visibility, ECM and standard missiles capable of intercepting enemy missiles you aren’t supposed to be hit ergo you don’t need the redundancy. It’s like tank combat v infantry- one you can take hits and the other you can’t.
Battleship Texas needs a curator like yourself, Id be there everyday learning, like I do this channel!
Your white pointer indicator gives the helmsman what maximum rudder angle that sailor (helmsman) can use to achieve his/hers new course change /or/a course correction to maintain a given course previously ordered so that the ship can maintain that Heading
Ryan,
Down in Central Station there are switches forward of the steering console. They determine which steering cable is used (port/starboard) and which station is in control. Also, on the IC switchboard, you can turn off ant EOT, POT etc.
Great video Ryan. New Jersey's 05 instruments look a lot better than Missouri's. The polished brass and brighter dials look like they are well cared for.
I just visited the USS Iowa today! Loved it, didnt have time to go on a guided tour though. I need to go back and see if i can go on a thorough curators tour. I want to see every bit of that ship.
This was a terrific video, you look professional, and your presentation succinct.
Awesome video!
I had one of those dreams just last night.
Thanks guys !
God bless
Great video, thanks Ryan & Libby! Video description needs to be updated, refers to yesterday's helo video
There is an excellent Royal Navy video elsewhere on Utube entitled “Duties of the Helmsman 1941”. It’s a great lesson on steering a ship with no visibility..
I love that Taney jacket, wonder if it can be procured anywhere.
I love these mystery ship history investigations!
It would be neat if some of the instruments on the ship could be brought into functioning condition,, you could do simulation type exercises with visitors on overnight stays, I know there's likely lists of things being done.
Before, watching..Sir I want to thank you..I served on Subs during the 1980's. You reminded me of what we had, emergency positioning.. for our rudder and planes surfaces. It was VERY Hard to coordinate.
Thanking and praying to JESUS for your Health and everyone, the museum and all! Thank you ALL! For your service!!
Praying for our Nations and Israel🙏🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸
It's a good thing there is an ash tray within arms reach (at Ryan's left elbow) of the steering positions in after steering.
Drachinifel in one of his videos also mulled about the steering postion having a view outside. The Helmsman does not have to see outside he is not driving the ship the officer of the deck or officer of the watch in other navies is doing that. He tells the Helmsman what course to steam or what rudder to apply. In some Destroyers the Helm was buried deep in the guts of the ship for protection. Again all the helmsman needs is a gyro repeat and rudder indicator. Modern warships have the helm position on the bridge as matter of effective communication with the helmsman, not so that he can see where the ship is going. It was also another comment about the leg and transmitting home order. Whoever is navigating or conning the ship has to be working mentally ahead of the ship and give orders with sufficient lead time. In close in navigation you actually calculate the turn radius for a ship at a given speed and execute the orders based on this before the turn. During my career I was a watch officer on a AOR. In this case the steering position was on the bridge. If I had ever caught my Helmsman staring out the window and not paying close attention to the gyro repeat to maintain the course I would have kicked him off the bridge right then and there. That would never happen because the Helmsman is under the direct supervision of the Quartermaster. The quartermaster would have put his boot in the appropriate place if the Helmsman was not paying
I hope those dials on the open bridge are kept covered most of the time. The two to the left are already hard to read due to sun damage. It would be a shame to let it get worse or happen to the others.
THANK YOU !!!!! This is something I've been wondering about since you first started doing videos on steering positions!
Looks like Ryan has gotten his 10,000 steps in on filming day!
So Wise , Thank you
Great video!!
This is a great video thank you!
Behind Ryan, across the room, there appears to be a P-51 propeller spinner cap made of stainless steel. What is it, what is it's purpose, and why is it where it is? It just seems odd that ina room of brass and painted surfaces that a stainless steel object should stand out. I love this channel.
I would like to see a comparison of CIC and the bridge of Captain Kirk's USS Enterprise some day.❤
Looks to me like an aluminum ash tray (recepticle).
Excellent as always.
I was half expecting it to be just some stick protruding from some where with a white tip.
Mechanically pointing in the direction they want to go.
Have you taken high res photos of the indicator faces so they can be restored in the future?
Very cool.
Ryan, I must know... how many pairs of shoes have begun through as curator of the New Jersey? 😅 Considering the amount of walking you have to do around the ship, I'd imagine quite a few.
That's awesome.
If the open bridge is the source for sending steering commands to after steering because of battle damage, that seems like a rather exposed place to be. I can't imagine that damage that takes out the protected steering locations would leave the open bridge intact.
The threat isn't so much to the conning tower itself as it is to the electrical wiring that communicates up and down the ship, or the electronics that operate everything. Steering would likely have port and starboard communication lines at minimum, but if the whole electrical system is taken out you can use sound powered or the locally powered rudder order telegraph. Even today, modern warships don't rely on steering consoles or systems to be fail proof, so we have backups to backups to of duplicates of backups.
The steering system is a pretty complex electrical system. It's vulnerable to damage from shock, physical damage, electrical surge or power failure, environmental damage, or simple maintenance failings. Sound powered phones and conning order telegraphs are, short of physical damage to the equipment and wiring, bomb proof.
Thanks!
I was half expecting the white pointer was a magnetic compass needle.
I'd like to know what "Meet Her" means.
maigretus1 explained that very well in a previous comment.
@@j_taylor Thanks!
Funny you mention the nightmare thing. When I was taking drivers ed and doing all the tests and studying I started to get those dreams. I would be driving and then suddenly I would be in the back seat and the car would become impossibly long proportionate to the amount I struggled to get to the wheel. I would always wake up when I crashed. When I drove the car in class as a practical test the dreams went away.
Needless to say, I would NOT want to drive BNJ 2 steps removed. That would be reliving that nightmare 😆
My version of that nightmare was that I was seatbelted in the back seat but had long arms and legs and so could always reach the wheel and pedals. It was a driving test so I was forever having to parallel park into the tightest space imaginable with the car suddenly becoming the size of a bus. Dream ended when I went over the curb into failsville.
I think I have had that dream too, except I was in the front passenger seat and somehow having to drive from there. Strange this is a common thing...
The only answer to that question is.....EXCEPTIONAL TEAMWORK.
If the bridge takes a good hit, wouldn't the inside bridge steering and the flying bridge be knocked out? There must be another location for steering or at least for sending aft steering commands. Perhaps down in the citadel or near the cic areas? As a last resort I remember hearing about, I think a carrier, where aft steering was completely cut off and the men trapped but continued to operate the steering gear manually with orders by phone, their only connection to the outside world, from somewhere right up to the end.
Nice ashtray, when was that installed?
There's nothing for the steering telegraph in the conning tower? I guess if you're in the tower you don't want to be on top of that platform exposed.
Those engine telegraphs look pretty sad, I wonder why all the others faired so much better?
I'm trying to get to see one of the Iowa's but I haven't gotten a chance yet!
How much of this still works? ALso, are the telegraphs using mechanical cables, or selsyns?
I'm curious how it got the data down below. Electrical? Hydraulic? Pneumatic? "Other"? And can this be controlled from multiple locations? What if that location has been destroyed by the enemy. How else would you steer the ship? I'm assuming there would probably also be electric as well as sound powered phones.
Also, why does the description talk about helicopters from 1983?
Hunh? So the guys in the very last resort steering position in the very bowels of the ship have to get their directions from an open exposed position outside the ship? Seems like if you've taken enough damage that you have to resort to aft steering that position above the bridge is going to be gone. Is there another position commands can be sent from?
thats quite a point to make
sometimes its a shame you can't power up individual systems like this to find out what they're doing
It's electrical... right. Does it use voltage or pulses or something?
"Have you ever had nightmares..." 🤣🤣🤣
Sound powered phones are my guess to transmit what course to steer down to aft steering, simple and it works from lots of places aboard ship ...... remember you said elect power is off line. Soooo, if you can't see outside how do you steer when yer outta of sight of land or in fog??? I love it when landlubers ask this question about submarines.
Will there be a video on the scrapping of usns hiddensee
I noticed the upper station also has a crank handle to ring the bells below.
I'd think all the none electrical stuff would still work.
would y'all be able to talk about the sudden and unannounced scrapping of the hiddensee by battleship cove?
What???? They scrapped the Russian Corvette ???? That sucks it was a unique piece of history for real.
Wiki entry notes a lack of funds and poor material condition as the reason for scraping it. I would not be surprised if that's the facts.
It was there in June 2023. My thought, at the time, was scrap it and put the funds (always tight for museums) into the BB.
Does one steering station have priority or can they override each other?
Do you ever turn the rudders to keep bearing lubricated?
😮 I want to know too!
The rudders are welded in place with reinforcements to keep them from moving while in mothballs or otherwise in a long term dock like as a museum ship. Without being allowed to power up the onboard engineering equipment they would have no way to move the rudders, or reposition them when they inevitably drift
@@jasonmurawski5877 The room that he was in with the two brass pointers and brass wheels, are the manual controls for the rudders. If there is no electrical power, those wheels drive the rudder linkage directly with human power.
Is this ship suitable to be an above ground blast/ fallout shelter for the upcoming emergency ?
She is not nuclear tight. She's barely rain water tight
The steering device shown says Left and Right, not Port or Starboard. I wonder why?
There is the rudder angle indicator to tell someone in after steering where to put the rudder, and there is a gyro repeater to tell them what course the ship is on, but where do they see what course to steer?
Whoever is sending the orders is setting the course. They just need to follow the rudder commands.
If you are big enough - you do not care to where you go!
On classical British ships (Vampire in Sydney for example) helmsman intentionaly does not see anything at all. He has compass repeater and phone to receive commands from the bridge, GO! His room is steel box with tiny 10cm port window under the ceiling, deep inside superstructure. And its destroyer, designed to direct attack, high speed maneuvering and so on! Moreover, even battle bridge (enclosed) has no visibility, only radars, compasses, other instruments and big captains chair in the middle. Officers can not see anything and can not steer from there by themselves, only watch their instruments and give commands to steerman.
Commercial ships got rid of all this 100 years ago (as soon it became possible to steer with small knob and mechanical power, not to rotate helm with all available force manually) to reduce unnecessary crew, but navy did not.
On that console on the op-ed bridge what did the signal meet her mean?
The US military could use a couple of Iowa Class Battleships to project power with the Carrier strike groups in the Middle east.
Did Inerial Navigation exist back in World War 2?
no, they had and used gyrocompasses. inertial navigations sets were worked on in the 60's, and implemented in the early 80's. there's at least one video ryan did where you can see the AN-WSN 5 inertial navigation set. im a bit of a nerd on that stuff, as i was a wsn2/5 tech.
Any plans for celebrity guests, like Cher, for the river ride to or from drydock?
😂 😂 😂
If they could only turn back time…
DON'T PANIC - we have brass instrumentation!
Well looks like your analogue gyro repeaters haven't changed one bit. Most everything else has gone computerized/ digital
What are the chances of getting a video in one of the main battery directors?
"I'm just getting it full in the face"
-Ryan Szimanski
What happens if the open bridge is shot away? If you’re directing above the conning tower, by the time the bridge helm is inoperable or destroyed, surely the open bridge is destroyed too.
Ideally the conning tower is intact but controls are damaged. But if even that is gone, you could in theory sail by gyro-compass and dead reckoning. It'd be a bit like driving your car with blacked out windows using a compass and the speedometer, but that's more or less how ships figured out where they were on the ocean in the first place, so assuming someone with navigational training is still alive you'd be fine until you hit something.
@@wyattroncin941or also likely the conning tower is intact but the crew inside are concussed to hell due to a shell hitting the 17 inch thick armor around them in which case it’s not the equipment than the operators that are the problem. It’s faster to switch steering to damage control or after steering than get a non-concussed crew up to the tower
@@wyattroncin941 yeah but you’d still have to be able to communicate with after steering. Would you just have a runner going back and forth between after steering and wherever your commander is located to be able to send commands down?
@@jasonmurawski5877 in the event that the conning tower controls are disabled, you'd use a ship's phone or a sound powered (different sort of emergency phone, like an old school rural party line) to communicate with aft steering. If that is also taken out or command is forced to relocate to a position without comms, you might have to use a team of relays that communicate orders to the nearest phone.
I've seen/been similar relays done for drill on the ships I've sailed on, playing telephone with a 5,000 ton frigate while you have no steering really reinforces the purpose of clear, concise and correct conning orders.
That gauge at 3:26 says Henschel, that's a german company. How is that possible.
A good who Dunnit. Did anyone guess it was Captain Mustard on the 05 Level with the White Pointer? 😀
Missouri does not get everything Ryan. Because they don’t have you and we are so glad they don’t!!!
So is the MEET HER setting for steering the ship to the port where the captain's girlfriend is located?
The ship is so huge that it reacts very slowly, all these delays between command and response, sometimes through several relaying stations, do not matter much.
Seeing you face to the stern and ask how do I know where to steer immediately make me think that clearly you need a coxswain
Could not see a time in the deck log but there is a good chance this was a drill.
Hope you're on a different channel because You tube is going to block anyone with an adblocker.
I imagine it's easier to steer with helper tugs than trying to dock my 21ft cuddy in 25mph winds on the lake.
Watch out for icebergs
What is the Missouri Ohio State we were operates. We finally
51st, 17 October 2023
Two words " follow orders"....
Hair is for women and children. Embrace the bald my brother.