Buy the ZWO AM5N: bit.ly/3W3TWKe Without tripod: bit.ly/3XNxPZx Want something smaller? The AM3 should be good: bit.ly/4cAjxzQ Want something larger with more payload? The WarpAstron WD20 is for you! bit.ly/3wxNbGI You don't like red or prefer direct drive? the WarpAstron WD17 is here! bit.ly/4bsMOLF Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek My friend Luke from the Lukomatico channel also got access to the AM5N! He plays spot the difference with the original AM5 here and it's fascinating , highly recommended! ruclips.net/video/vsD4JwoTPL0/видео.html Oh and by the way I used screenshots from a Japanese store since the Agena page for the AM5N didn't exist as I made this video!
I left my AM5 and setup outdoor during a rain one day, the wind is so strong that it blew away the telescope cover cloth that the AM5 got the rain hit for about 2 hours, I moved it back to room and thought: ok maybe that would be dead, and it is purely my bad, then I let it dry for 2 weeks, when I power it on, still worked, amazing quality ! till today, it is still my work horse
Agena Astro has been my go to stor in the USA and I am quite happy with all the purchases I made there. I hope they let you keep it, I want to purchase the AM5 and want to see more content with it going forward
Really great video Cuiv. ZWO should be honored to have such knowledgeable reviews. And you're right...it IS a great thing to see all this product competition. Just another part of this astronomy/astrophotography renaissance we're in right now.
The change to the power pass-through port and the addition of that USB-C port up on the saddle seems like it’s going to be amazing. Those would eliminate a whole lot of cable-snag concerns on my AM5. Great showcase Cuiv!
Great update, thanks. However, something you may not know. There *IS* a vital use for the autoguide port. I do solar time lapse videos and the only available solar guider (Hinode) uses the ST4 connection to the autoguide port. Until they release a USB version I’ll be using that port every clear day!
I understand you're hyped? :D But you should be thanking yourself for this as well. Your enthusiasm and excellent teaching got a lot of us into this hobby and kept us here. It's my opinion that without people like you, who make the complicated less complicated, the market would be smaller and these Chinese companies wouldn't be innovating as much and as fast. So give yourself a pat on the back too.
If I understand strain wave mounts, the counter weight is for nothing more than balance so that the rig doesn't tip over when on a tripod. If I am correct, this would not be necessary when using a permanent pier.
No I don't believe that's necessarily the case - the CW does seem to be used to "lighten" the load on the strain wave gears themselves, based on how the higher capacity mounts require them at payloads that already exceed the with-CW-payloads of the other mounts...
Thanks for the unboxing video on the new AM5 Cuiv. I’ve been using an EQ6R Pro for two years and want to get a SW mount in the near future. These upgrades should make the AM5 even better!
There was a recent firmware update that slowed max tracking speed down for use in very cold climates. Using that in regular temperatures was stated to allow a bit higher capacity also. I wonder if there really is a higher capacity or simply software new feature that achieves that? I have always though the original capacity was conservative. ZWO also said that they recommended staying to a max of 900m focal length. I often use longer focal lengths and know others that also do successfully. Finally... part of the reason for using a counter weight on heavier loads may be more to prevent the whole ting from toppling over. I place a heavier weight in the "hammock" but also don't have the CF tripod. I use a heavier duty tripod with a wider spread of the legs so no worries. I do use a 10# counterweight for my heaviest gear but mainly to eliminate any fears of overloading the gear train... but I am not convinced it is necessary.
No one mentions it, but I've noticed that the lower part of the harmonic equatorial mount for astrophotography tends to have similar short designs, which makes it very vulnerable to wind in order to extend the pillar. I think it would be better to design the lower part a bit longer so it doesn't interfere with the telescope. Recently, I saw such harmonic equatorial mounts without counterweights capable of handling 30 kilograms being made in China. It seems like they have longer lower parts like the traditional German style and appear to be resistant to wind, matching well with short height tripods. I've considered the HAE69, but I hope the AM7 adopts such a design.
The great thing is that both ZWO and iOptron really did well with their first generation SW offerings. It's nice to see improvements, but for the most part they seem like quality of life things that aren't going to have owners of previous models feeling that left out. I have an iOptron HEM15. The one downside for me is that it has a hand controller that needs to be connected (basically one extra needless wire as I've never actually pressed a single button on the hand controller). I imagine they'll release a model where the mount can be directly connected to your PC/Asiair/etc, but I can't imagine upgrading just for something like that as the hand controller weighs nothing and everything else works beautifully.
La pente est bien sûr très importante pour le guidage (le plus important pour le guidage réactif) mais avec une PE plus faible, j'espère voir moins de longer term oscillations dont la période de 220s filtre souvent dans les résultats de guidage (et l'algorithme PPEC fonctionnera peut-être mieux)
How do the knobs compare with the EM31pro for polar alignment? Is there a meaningful difference between them. With the lower price and known brand and support the the AM5N looks more compelling.
Looks look they finally add a pointer on the Dec. The triangle is a bit more accurate that sighting a round bolt through the side. Base looks larger than TC40 tripod. Maybe TC50 is next! Thanks for reviewing!
Hello Cuiv, sorry, is it possible to use an 8 inch F4 Newton with a cooled camera + guidescope on the AM5? Does that make sense for astrophotography? Best regards Chris from Germany
Hey Cuiv, could you please do a buying guide on these new trackers and cameras? Which would you recommend for use and price, ideal for beginners or not, etc. Maybe you could do a video like this once/twice a year?
Loving all these new strain-wave mounts coming on the market, not because I’m in the market for one but as people rush to swap to them the number of great value EQ6R’s and the like coming on the market for beginners/budget conscious is huge - bargains to be had 👊
Thanks Shirley! Since I already have the AM5, I won't be getting a new one, but it is clear ZWO raised the bar in this one (especially the improved PE). As usual, your video is well presented and useful. Looking forward to the review. One question: did you solve the funky star crosses one you Carbon 150? I haven't seen anything...
Hi Cuiv, Oops a frustrating unboxing! The camera angle hid my key interest in the case interior. I can't tell if there is still the possibility to cut the foam enough to accommodate the PegasusAstro puck and Powersaddle (8A), or if it's bigger knobs will fit into the unmodified lid (as is possible with the old softcase). And will we need to cut the wires two swap out the saddle now? Of course this is important because we still need a case, and we seem to need a grown-up power solution EVEN MORE now than before. Surely 3A OUT is a mere fig leaf? Or maybe it's a typo?? The original AM5 manual states "at least" three amps supply ( >=3A IN), and "up to" FIVE amps delivery (
I'll be testing the power out put for sure, and for my dual scope I will need to change the saddle angle so I'll see about wiring then! Sorry about the case interior, it's a pretty solid inside/not foam so I don't think it will be easy to cut up...
@@CuivTheLazyGeekNo worries, Lukomatico's vid gave me a glimpse, and I think your right! If you shell out for a power saddle for the AM5N, you'll very probably need another case now (its very tight for space). I easily hacked a slice out of my old AM5 soft case (needed because the power saddle sits ~10mm or so higher up), and the flex in the zips was enough that the lid could still close over saddle knobs. So we probably have an annoying niggling little minus point for the AM5N. On the output rerouting, to be honest I'm very ambivalent. On the one hand it is better this way. On the other hand the change has the smell of a cosmetic marketing 'checkbox' exercise that's likely to succeed in (mis-)selling a few more units, and will then disappoint those customers (when they run out of power budget as they try to feed all their equipment this way). At the same time its harder to recommend the Pegasus power saddle thanks to these AM5N changes.
Hello Cuiv Nice review. It seems that they took the upgrades the AM3 had over the AM5 and integrated them in the new version, in addition to the upgraded saddle and specifications. I am lucky enough to have both the AM3 and the old AM5 :-). By the way, there are 2 other differences between these 2 mounts, not obvious on the first look: - the front plate is plastic vs alu. - the az adjustment screws are bigger but shorter, which is a good thing since those on my AM5 are already slightly bent (I travel a lot with my mounts, not always carrying them in the case…) Have these modification been added to the new AM5 ? Best Damien
Thanks Damien, good to know! Yes the screws do look shorter now that you mention it - I think Luke has more details in his video (linked in description and pinned comment!)
I like it when companies step up their game without taking a bunch of shortcuts! Seems like this should be a good intermediate mount for a 'not too horrible' price when compared to the competition!
Got the Agena email about this a couple hours before your video posted. Good timing. I don't see many of the specs updated. Is the 12v output on the saddle still limited to 3A? If they bumped up to 5, we could (but just barely) use it to power cooled cameras when not slewing.
Unfortunately the 12V output is still limited to 3A (interestingly, I have powered both ASIAir and camera cooler via it in the past and it work even when slewing, but then I never use the cooler full blast!)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Hmm. This was a good time for them to improve that. With my setup, the asiair complains about power when the cooler is going and the mount is slewing, even with a 5A power supply. Maybe my power splitting cable is just not very good, but the 6200 is listed at 3 amps, and that's way too close even if the asiair did manage to not use much power.
Hi Cuiv, at the 4:54 mark you say that you should never ever use the autoguide port. Why is this? I plan on controlling the mount with N.I.N.A./PHD2 and a guide scope/camera as I do not have the ASIAir.
You need to recalibrate with each slew. Meridian flip can be an issue. Just burn that horrible ST-4 cable and connect to the mount via USB in PHD2. Also check my complete guide to guiding that I released a couple of weeks ago!
One obvious design choice they could have made on the original was to use M8x0.75 threads on the alt and az adjustment screws. Makes PA easier. Can you tell if they changed these screws to extra fine threads compared to the previous version? Re: weight the mount will support w/o a counterweight, I assumed the counterweight was to prevent the load from toppling over at extreme positions. The fact that they've reduced the P-P periodic error spec suggests they're using higher quality strain wave guides, but it's still the rate of change in error (slope of PE) that must be dealt with in guiding. The fact that it supports more weight (by providing more torque) plus the 500g increase in weight suggests a longer stepper than before? Why don't you take the face plate off and post a photo or three? I also feel like the connectors in the saddle are a little sketchy, especially if the power plug is only rated for 3A. I want my dew heaters and camera to be powered through the ASIAIR :( Does it still have the dual bubble levels? That was a head scratcher. Lastly, one should carefully read the return policy of _any_ vendor you buy from. You don't want to be hit with a hefty restocking fee if an expensive piece of kit does not meet your expectations.
All good stuff! - I don't see a difference on the adjustment screws (the knobs are better though) - Yep so it seems they may be using better motor and/or drives to get the full torque... Also you are right on the slope of the PE for short term guiding, but the lower PE overall should help with the 220s period that is usually left over in the guided results! - I want to first do a full review before I open it, just to make sure I review it in its pristine, untouched state :) But good idea! - Yeah 3A should be enough for OSC camera, focuser and filter wheel, but it should have been 5A... - no bubble levels at all!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good point regarding the 220s period. One school of thought is that variations in strain-wave gears of the same make and model are due to manufacturing tolerances. When you move to smaller strain-wave gears as in the AM3, everything is scaled down but the manufacturing tolerances remain the same. By this theory, the PE of the AM3 should be worse than the AM5. To my knowledge, nobody has compared the guiding performance of the AM3 and AM5, just obvious stuff like weight that one could get directly from the specs. Maybe a future video? Lastly, one thing that still confuses me is that I can 1) "home" a strain-wave mount, 2) perform PA to within a few arcsec using ASIAIR+'s plate solving, 3) home the mount again, and 4) run PA again. I always find PA at step 4 to be off by several arcmins. Do you have a theory or explanation for this? Keep up the informative videos! Great stuff.
The period on all the type 17 drive mounts I've tested was 220s. But 360s on the Type 20 drive mount I have. I assume Type 14 would have a different period (AM3) so it seems something to do with the SWG itself? Yes, you can do that PA thing - and the discrepancy is normal, the longer you take to achieve the PA in the first pass, the more imprecision you are gathering with time (especially if you use stars far from celestial pole). And the further away you were from the pole in the first place, the more imprecision there would be as well. It's better to do a two pass PA in that case!
Is it safe to power the AM5N running an ASIAIR, camera and focuser (from the mount head) with a 12V 10 amp power brick? Will the mount and mount head only draw as much current as needed?
Hi Cuiv. Has Zwo released any info about how/why the new mount has higher capacity? Increasing from 13 to 15kg needs some mechanical justification :) Thx for the video Pd:I tried contacting EmcanAstro for the 31Pro but no answer so far (I asked for dealers in Europe)
I replaced my AM3 saddle with the Pegasus 10 amp one. It powers everything. The mount, the ASIAIR, the camera etc. 3amps is insufficient. Is this new saddle on the AM5 removeable so I can replace it with the Pegasus? If not, I will use the Pegasus Power box to power everything. I'll just Velcro it to the front of the mount!
Hey Cuiv, Just got my AM5N this morning and checked to see if the saddle was removable. It is not. There is a bundle of wires that go to the usb and power ports that I did not want to screw with. I'll use my Pegasus Power Box if amperage is not adequate.
Very tempting. I do like the new power and mount ports on the saddle; although I've never had cable issues. The old AM5 azimuth locks were tricky and had to be tightened slowly and simultaneously or they threw the azimuth off! The AM5 is a paradox. It is light weight/portable, but works so well on my Primaluce pier (with HEQ5 adapter) that I leave it bolted on the pier, remove the scope and cover with a 13 gallon plastic trash container when bad weather hits. Who needs an observatory?! A second AM5 or the AM3 is tempting, just to have a readily portable mount without having to unbolt the pier mounted one. Sigh
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good advice. I’m always cash and carry. I believe that affordability in this hobby is a matter of priorities. Many of us spend more on cars (than Astro gear) that give us far less joy. Perhaps we should flip the spend. ;)
Hi Cuiv, very nice review. I was lucky with my AM5 having PE of 8.2/2.6 Arc-Sec, so it's nice knowing the new spec is +/- 10. The re-location of the those 2 ports is a big plus, but one thing I seem to notice, with the 2 Azimuth locking screws gone, am I right in saying the 2 bubble levels are also gone (they are located on the latitude adjuster on the previous model) ?
These improvements are great and I’m especially a fan of the new ports on the saddle, but aren’t you not supposed to power the ASIAir through the dc out on the AM5? Perhaps the ASIAir by itself is fine, but what about when the Air is also powering your guide camera, main camera, EAF, etc.?
@@TheTbutterworth That’s one option, but any cables still have to deal with the dec axis though. Still better than running them from the ground up. But basically, to answer my question, you can’t power the AsiAir through the dc out on the am5 when it’s powering other stuff? To be specific, I have the am5 itself, eaf, and main and guide cams hooked up to my Air.
One change: the AM5N has dropped the pair of bubble levels from the original. Important for leveling especially in alt/az mode. I guess you could stick your own onto it, but, bummer.
I think they're expecting the ASIAir to sit on top of your scope, connected to the USB port and power on the saddle (since ASIAir and saddle are static relative to one another)
Wow Cuiv! Christmas in July 😂 ZWO really tries their best to be at the top! After all the mount issues I've had recently, I think if I were to purchase a new one it would be that new ZWO AM5N 🙂 Thanks for the video!
I want to see a true test. Use the mount like regular, then just add extra weights on top of it, in real time, to see the change in guiding when the mount is at its maximum weight capacitymof 44lbs. (You might jave to recalibrate when adding extra weight thou.)
Not sure I'll do that - I could have redcat and dual scope for both ends of the spectrum. Don't have a good way to add weights that I would trust myself with building
At first glance I really liked the AM5N, with the 12v 3 A connector on the dovetail, but after thinking more since it will supply 3 amps, then no way to power a ASI Air and the ZWO camera, focuser, filter wheel and someday the rotator, as that would be 6 or so amps. No way. Since the AM5N input is 12 volts 5 amp, then looks like ZWO is expecting a 2 amp load for the mount (on the safe side) then only outputs 3 amps. Maybe if ZWO had 2-5.5mm x 2.1mm ports (1 on the left & 1 on the right) as those can handle 5 amps each and then have an 5.5mm x 2.1mm additional input on the mount for powering a ZWO camera (so this would be for the camera only, and the other jack for ASI Air, focuser, filter wheel and the rotator). This would be the ideal solution in my thinking! This might have been the best upgrade? Now BT is great and so the PE, but how did they improve that, maybe they upgraded the stepper motors for the additional weight without counter weight... Looking for a teardown.. Just WISHED they offered a BT - Bluetooth user upgrade....
I'm not sure, I'll need to test - someone did the math on CN, and it seemed that for ASIAir + cooled camera + focuser + filter wheel it would work. The additional weight and torque and PE implies better motors and SWG drives, so I assume that's what happened! I'll do a teardown after my proper review!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have a AM5 and it is great. Is there an actual change to a more powerful motor, different gearing, etc I suspected the AM5 original is a bit conservative in capacity so perhaps that is the answer. My example has a low PE already compared to the maximum allowed. Like others mentioned.... I wish they had made the through ampacity to 5 amps instead of 3. Loss of those two bubble levels is not a big deal....easy to install your own and they would be easier to see. The AZI clamps were redundant before as they found on the AM3. I do prefer the older case on the AM5 though.
Spoiler alert on my first test under the stars, at max payload, guiding near the celestial equator (M16): 0.5" guiding performance, extremely consistent. PA was also quite good!
So the minor changes are really minor and to my eyes don't justify buying a new one when you already have one. The only thing however that could be significant is that better PE. AM5 already guides well but because of that better curve and slightly heavier weight, one might gain 0.2 - 0.4 RMS compared to an original AM5. I am personally more waiting for an AM1 or 2 that would be more portable :)
Excellent review, thanks. I have two already so better cut up my credit cards. Fortunately differences are probably insufficient to tempt me. Would have preferred minimum 5A supply to saddle and a proper usb3 pass through from the saddle to the body - I don’t put my ASIAIR or pc on the OTA. Rather I prefer to have a Pegasus powerbox on the OTA. Anyway good to see evolution in action. Cheers, Des
would love to know if you'd rather have the am5n or, for $400 more, get the wd-17, which for the most part is comparable spec wise. and i know it's been a long time, but has the am5 meridian flip issue been fixed? i remember it being a problem, but couldn't figure out if it was fixed or not. i assume the wd-17/20 works fine (once you get past the terminology differences). are there any other strain wave mounts with similar payload capacities to be aware of? watching all these astro videos makes me want to do astro again. too bad the weather has other plans. thanks for the info! can't wait to see the torture test
@@CuivTheLazyGeek The point is: Should you already have a ZWO AM5, are you going to buy the new AM5N?. My answer is not. Too expensive for the news advantages. I´d rather to buy a more technological advanced product. Said that, if you don´t have any harmonic equatorial mount then the new AM5N I´m sure is a very good product
The PE means not much unless you are trying to keep a star in the center of an eyepiece. ZWO shortenthe period of the mount a while back to make those graphs look better. You have to look at the slope of the sudden switches on the curve itself. The slope and number if those are more important during guiding and imaging. Please don't propagate those misconceptions.
It's not quite a misconception though, since right now, even after guiding, RA retains a sinusoidal pattern of period 220s (i.e. it's not fully guided over). Obviously the slope is what matters for the second-to-second guiding, but a lower overall PE should also help make that longer period sinusoidal less present in final results :)
Warning: ZWO support doesn't exists. Your warranty means nothing. My AM5 has major mechanical problems. ZWO has ghosted me after the initial "try this, try that " emails.
I think that's why in recent months they were giving away the tripod for free! But yeah I'd be annoyed if I had bought it recently, but such it is with tech...!
I'm going to wait a year before considering this type of mount. ZWO is getting bad about putting out new stuff so quick now, I'm going to wait a couple generations and see what they do with it. Astrophotography is getting as bad as cell phones. You buy something and companies release a better version before the new smell wears off lol
Buy the ZWO AM5N: bit.ly/3W3TWKe
Without tripod: bit.ly/3XNxPZx
Want something smaller? The AM3 should be good: bit.ly/4cAjxzQ
Want something larger with more payload? The WarpAstron WD20 is for you! bit.ly/3wxNbGI
You don't like red or prefer direct drive? the WarpAstron WD17 is here! bit.ly/4bsMOLF
Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG
My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek
My friend Luke from the Lukomatico channel also got access to the AM5N! He plays spot the difference with the original AM5 here and it's fascinating , highly recommended! ruclips.net/video/vsD4JwoTPL0/видео.html
Oh and by the way I used screenshots from a Japanese store since the Agena page for the AM5N didn't exist as I made this video!
Thank you for the review. Btw have you seen Toupteks Astrostation?😲 I’m super exited to try it,
I left my AM5 and setup outdoor during a rain one day, the wind is so strong that it blew away the telescope cover cloth that the AM5 got the rain hit for about 2 hours, I moved it back to room and thought: ok maybe that would be dead, and it is purely my bad, then I let it dry for 2 weeks, when I power it on, still worked, amazing quality ! till today, it is still my work horse
Woohoo! Now THAT is resilience!! Glad it was all OK!
Agena Astro has been my go to stor in the USA and I am quite happy with all the purchases I made there. I hope they let you keep it, I want to purchase the AM5 and want to see more content with it going forward
Thanks so much!
Don't call me Shirley ah a classic line that never gets old lol, great video as always clear skies.
Thanks so much! And yes there are so many lines in that movie that never get old, including this one :)
I love that movie. What a great show; a joke about every 15 seconds.
Small point, the 12V through the mount supply is rated at 3A but the ASIAIR is rated at 5A.
Thanks for the additional info! 3A is not quite enough but we'll see
Seems surprising if ZWO wants all their products used together?
I just bought the AM5... haven't even plugged it in yet. Now I'm behind the latest and greatest because the AM5-N looks like a really nice upgrade.
Try contacting your dealer, maybe you can ask for an exchange?
Really great video Cuiv. ZWO should be honored to have such knowledgeable reviews. And you're right...it IS a great thing to see all this product competition. Just another part of this astronomy/astrophotography renaissance we're in right now.
The change to the power pass-through port and the addition of that USB-C port up on the saddle seems like it’s going to be amazing. Those would eliminate a whole lot of cable-snag concerns on my AM5. Great showcase Cuiv!
Absolutely! Although the DC output being only 3A is a bit disappointing...
Excellent video mate!! Looking forward to seeing the torture test with your dual-rig haha!! :-D
Clear skies!
Cheers mate, your video is honestly better I hope people go watch it!! The torture test is going to be fun!
Saw your 'new AM5' video 1st Luke. 😂
@CuivTheLazyGeek I saw his video and watching yours now lol. I qas planning on it anyway, but since he mentioned it I went right to it.
Great update, thanks. However, something you may not know. There *IS* a vital use for the autoguide port. I do solar time lapse videos and the only available solar guider (Hinode) uses the ST4 connection to the autoguide port. Until they release a USB version I’ll be using that port every clear day!
oooh, thanks for letting me know! I had no idea! Also Hinode (sunrise in Japanese) is such a cool solar guider name!
I understand you're hyped? :D
But you should be thanking yourself for this as well. Your enthusiasm and excellent teaching got a lot of us into this hobby and kept us here. It's my opinion that without people like you, who make the complicated less complicated, the market would be smaller and these Chinese companies wouldn't be innovating as much and as fast.
So give yourself a pat on the back too.
Oh man, thanks so much for that, I needed it :) OK, giving myself one tentative pat on the back for now. Cheers!
If I understand strain wave mounts, the counter weight is for nothing more than balance so that the rig doesn't tip over when on a tripod. If I am correct, this would not be necessary when using a permanent pier.
No I don't believe that's necessarily the case - the CW does seem to be used to "lighten" the load on the strain wave gears themselves, based on how the higher capacity mounts require them at payloads that already exceed the with-CW-payloads of the other mounts...
I love my AM5! I would consider buying another one. Great video!
Great to hear! It is a good mount, and those are some good enhancements on top of it!
I use a William Optics Tri-Pier with my AM5, it's a great tripod that's a good fit for the AM5.
Sounds awesome!
Nice review thanks. I’m waiting for a strain wave mount with cabling to a part of the mount that doesn’t move like my CEM120.
I think the HAE69 by iOptron has that, but it isn't super well reviewed...
@@CuivTheLazyGeekwhat is your opinion of the HAE29EC versus HAE69 versus AM5N?
Thanks for the unboxing video on the new AM5 Cuiv. I’ve been using an EQ6R Pro for two years and want to get a SW mount in the near future. These upgrades should make the AM5 even better!
My pleasure Mark! Don't forget that if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Although yeah the updated AM5 looks quite nice :)
What was the wind speed when the guiding graph was shown? How does the mount perform with wind speeds from 15 - 20 kmph?
There was a recent firmware update that slowed max tracking speed down for use in very cold climates. Using that in regular temperatures was stated to allow a bit higher capacity also. I wonder if there really is a higher capacity or simply software new feature that achieves that? I have always though the original capacity was conservative. ZWO also said that they recommended staying to a max of 900m focal length. I often use longer focal lengths and know others that also do successfully. Finally... part of the reason for using a counter weight on heavier loads may be more to prevent the whole ting from toppling over. I place a heavier weight in the "hammock" but also don't have the CF tripod. I use a heavier duty tripod with a wider spread of the legs so no worries. I do use a 10# counterweight for my heaviest gear but mainly to eliminate any fears of overloading the gear train... but I am not convinced it is necessary.
No one mentions it, but I've noticed that the lower part of the harmonic equatorial mount for astrophotography tends to have similar short designs, which makes it very vulnerable to wind in order to extend the pillar. I think it would be better to design the lower part a bit longer so it doesn't interfere with the telescope. Recently, I saw such harmonic equatorial mounts without counterweights capable of handling 30 kilograms being made in China. It seems like they have longer lower parts like the traditional German style and appear to be resistant to wind, matching well with short height tripods. I've considered the HAE69, but I hope the AM7 adopts such a design.
The great thing is that both ZWO and iOptron really did well with their first generation SW offerings. It's nice to see improvements, but for the most part they seem like quality of life things that aren't going to have owners of previous models feeling that left out.
I have an iOptron HEM15. The one downside for me is that it has a hand controller that needs to be connected (basically one extra needless wire as I've never actually pressed a single button on the hand controller). I imagine they'll release a model where the mount can be directly connected to your PC/Asiair/etc, but I can't imagine upgrading just for something like that as the hand controller weighs nothing and everything else works beautifully.
la facilité d'auto guidage ne viendra pas de la diminution de l'amplitude de l'erreur périodique mais bien de sa dérivée première et des harmoniques?
La pente est bien sûr très importante pour le guidage (le plus important pour le guidage réactif) mais avec une PE plus faible, j'espère voir moins de longer term oscillations dont la période de 220s filtre souvent dans les résultats de guidage (et l'algorithme PPEC fonctionnera peut-être mieux)
As far as added weight, quantity has a quality of its own
How do the knobs compare with the EM31pro for polar alignment? Is there a meaningful difference between them. With the lower price and known brand and support the the AM5N looks more compelling.
Excellent initial analysis, thanks Cuiv
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the update Cuiv, appreciated. How does this mount compare to the WA WD20 with PE?
Seems close - the PE of the WD20 is in that video, I remember it being close to that
Looks look they finally add a pointer on the Dec. The triangle is a bit more accurate that sighting a round bolt through the side. Base looks larger than TC40 tripod. Maybe TC50 is next! Thanks for reviewing!
TC50 would be nice!!
Hello Cuiv, sorry, is it possible to use an 8 inch F4 Newton with a cooled camera + guidescope on the AM5?
Does that make sense for astrophotography?
Best regards Chris from Germany
Hey Cuiv, could you please do a buying guide on these new trackers and cameras? Which would you recommend for use and price, ideal for beginners or not, etc. Maybe you could do a video like this once/twice a year?
I'll think on that, thanks for the idea! Something like "What mount to get in 2024", "What camera to get" etc.
Loving all these new strain-wave mounts coming on the market, not because I’m in the market for one but as people rush to swap to them the number of great value EQ6R’s and the like coming on the market for beginners/budget conscious is huge - bargains to be had 👊
Hahaha now that's another way to look at things!
Thanks Shirley! Since I already have the AM5, I won't be getting a new one, but it is clear ZWO raised the bar in this one (especially the improved PE). As usual, your video is well presented and useful. Looking forward to the review. One question: did you solve the funky star crosses one you Carbon 150? I haven't seen anything...
Thank you! :D I haven't fixed the star crosses on the CS150, but I haven't had the weather to test :p I'll get to it!
Hi Cuiv, Oops a frustrating unboxing! The camera angle hid my key interest in the case interior. I can't tell if there is still the possibility to cut the foam enough to accommodate the PegasusAstro puck and Powersaddle (8A), or if it's bigger knobs will fit into the unmodified lid (as is possible with the old softcase). And will we need to cut the wires two swap out the saddle now? Of course this is important because we still need a case, and we seem to need a grown-up power solution EVEN MORE now than before. Surely 3A OUT is a mere fig leaf? Or maybe it's a typo??
The original AM5 manual states "at least" three amps supply ( >=3A IN), and "up to" FIVE amps delivery (
I'll be testing the power out put for sure, and for my dual scope I will need to change the saddle angle so I'll see about wiring then! Sorry about the case interior, it's a pretty solid inside/not foam so I don't think it will be easy to cut up...
@@CuivTheLazyGeekNo worries, Lukomatico's vid gave me a glimpse, and I think your right! If you shell out for a power saddle for the AM5N, you'll very probably need another case now (its very tight for space). I easily hacked a slice out of my old AM5 soft case (needed because the power saddle sits ~10mm or so higher up), and the flex in the zips was enough that the lid could still close over saddle knobs. So we probably have an annoying niggling little minus point for the AM5N.
On the output rerouting, to be honest I'm very ambivalent. On the one hand it is better this way. On the other hand the change has the smell of a cosmetic marketing 'checkbox' exercise that's likely to succeed in (mis-)selling a few more units, and will then disappoint those customers (when they run out of power budget as they try to feed all their equipment this way). At the same time its harder to recommend the Pegasus power saddle thanks to these AM5N changes.
Thanks for the review.. these new mounts are so awesome... This would be perfect for trips to the house in Andros, Greece...
The Strain Wave Gear revolution is amazing for sure! And wow Andros, Greece.. you got a house in paradise :)
Hello Cuiv
Nice review. It seems that they took the upgrades the AM3 had over the AM5 and integrated them in the new version, in addition to the upgraded saddle and specifications. I am lucky enough to have both the AM3 and the old AM5 :-). By the way, there are 2 other differences between these 2 mounts, not obvious on the first look:
- the front plate is plastic vs alu.
- the az adjustment screws are bigger but shorter, which is a good thing since those on my AM5 are already slightly bent (I travel a lot with my mounts, not always carrying them in the case…)
Have these modification been added to the new AM5 ?
Best
Damien
Thanks Damien, good to know! Yes the screws do look shorter now that you mention it - I think Luke has more details in his video (linked in description and pinned comment!)
I like it when companies step up their game without taking a bunch of shortcuts! Seems like this should be a good intermediate mount for a 'not too horrible' price when compared to the competition!
Exactly! And I think they felt the pressure from WarpAstron and Proxisky, etc. Competition for the win!
Wi-Fi is still in remote! I don’t see side tighteners might be easier to polar align. Super exciting! Now let’s get an AM3N or even AM4 or AM6 mounts.
For now polar alignment was very smooth!
I wish ZWO would quit making such tasty stuff. I can't afford to keep up with this. Surely you agree. (Loved the reference to the Airplane movie)
Glad you got the reference Marvin! 😄 Yeah that thing looks tasty for sure but remember, what you have already works! 😉
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I am selling my iOptron GEM28. Probably won't get much for it but once I had the AM5 I seldom used the GEM.
Yep it makes sense :) hope you do get some for it though!
is there still this 900mm focal length limit with this new version?❤
I have no idea! I'll need to look at the details!
The new version looks really good and can't wait for your torture test! PS - Agena needs to also send you the Duo filters to test.
Got the Agena email about this a couple hours before your video posted. Good timing.
I don't see many of the specs updated. Is the 12v output on the saddle still limited to 3A? If they bumped up to 5, we could (but just barely) use it to power cooled cameras when not slewing.
Unfortunately the 12V output is still limited to 3A (interestingly, I have powered both ASIAir and camera cooler via it in the past and it work even when slewing, but then I never use the cooler full blast!)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Hmm. This was a good time for them to improve that. With my setup, the asiair complains about power when the cooler is going and the mount is slewing, even with a 5A power supply. Maybe my power splitting cable is just not very good, but the 6200 is listed at 3 amps, and that's way too close even if the asiair did manage to not use much power.
I figured when they had the 'mega sale' they were going to bring out something newer.
Now I want it. Previously AM5 was not capable enough (my rig is 32 lbs).
Still at the limit of the payload, but I'll be testing that :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Nice, looking forward to seeing the results.
quick question: how easy is to reach those usb-c and dc power ports once you put the OTA on top of the saddle? Are they covered by the tube?
Can't wait for the review! Excellent content!
Clear skies first haha :D
Hi Cuiv, at the 4:54 mark you say that you should never ever use the autoguide port. Why is this? I plan on controlling the mount with N.I.N.A./PHD2 and a guide scope/camera as I do not have the ASIAir.
You need to recalibrate with each slew. Meridian flip can be an issue. Just burn that horrible ST-4 cable and connect to the mount via USB in PHD2. Also check my complete guide to guiding that I released a couple of weeks ago!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks Cuiv, Can't wait for AM5N to arrive.
And now we have the touptech device too. will wonders never cease
One obvious design choice they could have made on the original was to use M8x0.75 threads on the alt and az adjustment screws. Makes PA easier. Can you tell if they changed these screws to extra fine threads compared to the previous version?
Re: weight the mount will support w/o a counterweight, I assumed the counterweight was to prevent the load from toppling over at extreme positions. The fact that they've reduced the P-P periodic error spec suggests they're using higher quality strain wave guides, but it's still the rate of change in error (slope of PE) that must be dealt with in guiding. The fact that it supports more weight (by providing more torque) plus the 500g increase in weight suggests a longer stepper than before? Why don't you take the face plate off and post a photo or three?
I also feel like the connectors in the saddle are a little sketchy, especially if the power plug is only rated for 3A. I want my dew heaters and camera to be powered through the ASIAIR :(
Does it still have the dual bubble levels? That was a head scratcher.
Lastly, one should carefully read the return policy of _any_ vendor you buy from. You don't want to be hit with a hefty restocking fee if an expensive piece of kit does not meet your expectations.
All good stuff!
- I don't see a difference on the adjustment screws (the knobs are better though)
- Yep so it seems they may be using better motor and/or drives to get the full torque... Also you are right on the slope of the PE for short term guiding, but the lower PE overall should help with the 220s period that is usually left over in the guided results!
- I want to first do a full review before I open it, just to make sure I review it in its pristine, untouched state :) But good idea!
- Yeah 3A should be enough for OSC camera, focuser and filter wheel, but it should have been 5A...
- no bubble levels at all!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good point regarding the 220s period. One school of thought is that variations in strain-wave gears of the same make and model are due to manufacturing tolerances. When you move to smaller strain-wave gears as in the AM3, everything is scaled down but the manufacturing tolerances remain the same. By this theory, the PE of the AM3 should be worse than the AM5. To my knowledge, nobody has compared the guiding performance of the AM3 and AM5, just obvious stuff like weight that one could get directly from the specs. Maybe a future video?
Lastly, one thing that still confuses me is that I can 1) "home" a strain-wave mount, 2) perform PA to within a few arcsec using ASIAIR+'s plate solving, 3) home the mount again, and 4) run PA again. I always find PA at step 4 to be off by several arcmins. Do you have a theory or explanation for this?
Keep up the informative videos! Great stuff.
The period on all the type 17 drive mounts I've tested was 220s. But 360s on the Type 20 drive mount I have. I assume Type 14 would have a different period (AM3) so it seems something to do with the SWG itself?
Yes, you can do that PA thing - and the discrepancy is normal, the longer you take to achieve the PA in the first pass, the more imprecision you are gathering with time (especially if you use stars far from celestial pole). And the further away you were from the pole in the first place, the more imprecision there would be as well. It's better to do a two pass PA in that case!
Is it safe to power the AM5N running an ASIAIR, camera and focuser (from the mount head) with a 12V 10 amp power brick? Will the mount and mount head only draw as much current as needed?
Can you plug your imaging camera USB cable into the saddle and then have it connect through the USB port on the base to a PC?
No! This is only to control the mount!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Skywatcher it is then. :)
Hi Cuiv. Has Zwo released any info about how/why the new mount has higher capacity? Increasing from 13 to 15kg needs some mechanical justification :)
Thx for the video
Pd:I tried contacting EmcanAstro for the 31Pro but no answer so far (I asked for dealers in Europe)
I believe higher quality SWG drives, and likely an RA stepper with better torque (and thus heavier, I assume this justifies the 500g more)
I replaced my AM3 saddle with the Pegasus 10 amp one. It powers everything. The mount, the ASIAIR, the camera etc. 3amps is insufficient. Is this new saddle on the AM5 removeable so I can replace it with the Pegasus? If not, I will use the Pegasus Power box to power everything. I'll just Velcro it to the front of the mount!
I'll have to check it out! Also since there is a homing sensor I'll also need to rotate the saddle 90 degrees so I'll see whether this is possible!
Hey Cuiv,
Just got my AM5N this morning and checked to see if the saddle was removable. It is not. There is a bundle of wires that go to the usb and power ports that I did not want to screw with. I'll use my Pegasus Power Box if amperage is not adequate.
With the reduction in periodic error will longer focal lengths OTA be suitable with this mount? Thanks
Can't tell without testing!
Can hardly wait for you to get your hands on the new ASIAIR “competitor” apparently it’s compatible with all hardware.
Yep, I really hope I can get my hands on one soon!
Hi Cuiv, I would be honored if you would take a look to my cheap DIY harmonic equatorial mount!
Very tempting. I do like the new power and mount ports on the saddle; although I've never had cable issues. The old AM5 azimuth locks were tricky and had to be tightened slowly and simultaneously or they threw the azimuth off! The AM5 is a paradox. It is light weight/portable, but works so well on my Primaluce pier (with HEQ5 adapter) that I leave it bolted on the pier, remove the scope and cover with a 13 gallon plastic trash container when bad weather hits. Who needs an observatory?! A second AM5 or the AM3 is tempting, just to have a readily portable mount without having to unbolt the pier mounted one. Sigh
Just don't buy stuff you can't afford ;)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good advice. I’m always cash and carry. I believe that affordability in this hobby is a matter of priorities. Many of us spend more on cars (than Astro gear) that give us far less joy. Perhaps we should flip the spend. ;)
Hi Cuiv, very nice review. I was lucky with my AM5 having PE of 8.2/2.6 Arc-Sec, so it's nice knowing the new spec is +/- 10. The re-location of the those 2 ports is a big plus, but one thing I seem to notice, with the 2 Azimuth locking screws gone, am I right in saying the 2 bubble levels are also gone (they are located on the latitude adjuster on the previous model) ?
Yes you are correct, the two bubble levels are gone... I had never used them so didn't even notice that!
These improvements are great and I’m especially a fan of the new ports on the saddle, but aren’t you not supposed to power the ASIAir through the dc out on the AM5? Perhaps the ASIAir by itself is fine, but what about when the Air is also powering your guide camera, main camera, EAF, etc.?
I'm going to Velcro a Pegasus Power box to the front of the mount and run 10 amps from there!
@@TheTbutterworth That’s one option, but any cables still have to deal with the dec axis though. Still better than running them from the ground up. But basically, to answer my question, you can’t power the AsiAir through the dc out on the am5 when it’s powering other stuff? To be specific, I have the am5 itself, eaf, and main and guide cams hooked up to my Air.
Yep that becomes a bit dodgy, although people on CN have done the math and apparently it could be just enough? I'll definitely test!
One change: the AM5N has dropped the pair of bubble levels from the original. Important for leveling especially in alt/az mode. I guess you could stick your own onto it, but, bummer.
Good point, I hadn't even noticed even though it's so obvious...
Super jealous about the periodic error refinement.
Where do they encourage you to mount the AsiAir though?
I think they're expecting the ASIAir to sit on top of your scope, connected to the USB port and power on the saddle (since ASIAir and saddle are static relative to one another)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thst makes sense, thank you
Thanks for the info. It's nice to see the improvements ZWO has made.
My pleasure - definitely good to see improvements there
Waiting for them to ditch the belts for direct drive and switch to servo motors 😀
Wow Cuiv! Christmas in July 😂 ZWO really tries their best to be at the top! After all the mount issues I've had recently, I think if I were to purchase a new one it would be that new ZWO AM5N 🙂 Thanks for the video!
Cheers Dave! I think any of the current gen SWG mounts, be it this one or another would be better than the one you have/had
Ooooo - i just wanted to order a counterweight for my AM5, but it seems I need to buy a new AM5 :) thanks for the video Cuiv!
If you've stumbled on an infinite money glitch, why not? :D But otherwise just adding a counterweight seems like the reasonable thing to do 😂
@@CuivTheLazyGeek i think i Will sell my other mount ( Maybe you remember you suggested my first gear for which I am very grateful)…
I want to see a true test. Use the mount like regular, then just add extra weights on top of it, in real time, to see the change in guiding when the mount is at its maximum weight capacitymof 44lbs. (You might jave to recalibrate when adding extra weight thou.)
Not sure I'll do that - I could have redcat and dual scope for both ends of the spectrum. Don't have a good way to add weights that I would trust myself with building
Has the price changed? Defiently some nice upgrades.
Seems to be the same price!
At first glance I really liked the AM5N, with the 12v 3 A connector on the dovetail, but after thinking more since it will supply 3 amps, then no way to power a ASI Air and the ZWO camera, focuser, filter wheel and someday the rotator, as that would be 6 or so amps. No way. Since the AM5N input is 12 volts 5 amp, then looks like ZWO is expecting a 2 amp load for the mount (on the safe side) then only outputs 3 amps. Maybe if ZWO had 2-5.5mm x 2.1mm ports (1 on the left & 1 on the right) as those can handle 5 amps each and then have an 5.5mm x 2.1mm additional input on the mount for powering a ZWO camera (so this would be for the camera only, and the other jack for ASI Air, focuser, filter wheel and the rotator). This would be the ideal solution in my thinking! This might have been the best upgrade? Now BT is great and so the PE, but how did they improve that, maybe they upgraded the stepper motors for the additional weight without counter weight... Looking for a teardown.. Just WISHED they offered a BT - Bluetooth user upgrade....
I'm not sure, I'll need to test - someone did the math on CN, and it seemed that for ASIAir + cooled camera + focuser + filter wheel it would work.
The additional weight and torque and PE implies better motors and SWG drives, so I assume that's what happened! I'll do a teardown after my proper review!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have a AM5 and it is great. Is there an actual change to a more powerful motor, different gearing, etc I suspected the AM5 original is a bit conservative in capacity so perhaps that is the answer. My example has a low PE already compared to the maximum allowed. Like others mentioned.... I wish they had made the through ampacity to 5 amps instead of 3. Loss of those two bubble levels is not a big deal....easy to install your own and they would be easier to see. The AZI clamps were redundant before as they found on the AM3. I do prefer the older case on the AM5 though.
tu crois qu'il est possible d'alimenter une power astro pegasus avec le nouveau port 12v ?
Je dois dire, aucune idee, mais le 3A est assez limite quand meme...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek d'accord merci, par contre trop dèg ils sont déjà en rupture chez agena astro ...
Wonderful review, as always!
I saw this after selling my am5 to move. Wow, maybe I need this.
Spoiler alert on my first test under the stars, at max payload, guiding near the celestial equator (M16): 0.5" guiding performance, extremely consistent. PA was also quite good!
Looks like the AM-5 is on my shortlist now... The decision is getting tougher every week! 😅
So many SWG mounts are available now, right?? We're entering the realm of Analysis Paralysis haha
Is the old am5 going to be on sale?
Doesn't look like it, looks like it's a full replacement
So the minor changes are really minor and to my eyes don't justify buying a new one when you already have one.
The only thing however that could be significant is that better PE. AM5 already guides well but because of that better curve and slightly heavier weight, one might gain 0.2 - 0.4 RMS compared to an original AM5.
I am personally more waiting for an AM1 or 2 that would be more portable :)
Oh yeah absolutely! No need to buy a new AM5 if you already got one, really minor changes!
Good usb/power on seat… wonder the max power🎉
Still 3A output...
Excellent review, thanks. I have two already so better cut up my credit cards. Fortunately differences are probably insufficient to tempt me. Would have preferred minimum 5A supply to saddle and a proper usb3 pass through from the saddle to the body - I don’t put my ASIAIR or pc on the OTA. Rather I prefer to have a Pegasus powerbox on the OTA. Anyway good to see evolution in action. Cheers, Des
Ha! Finally.. an unboxing video from the lazy geek...
I've done unboxings in the past haha - but true these days I've often jumped straight into the review :)
would love to know if you'd rather have the am5n or, for $400 more, get the wd-17, which for the most part is comparable spec wise.
and i know it's been a long time, but has the am5 meridian flip issue been fixed? i remember it being a problem, but couldn't figure out if it was fixed or not. i assume the wd-17/20 works fine (once you get past the terminology differences).
are there any other strain wave mounts with similar payload capacities to be aware of?
watching all these astro videos makes me want to do astro again. too bad the weather has other plans.
thanks for the info! can't wait to see the torture test
I'll need to test that new AM5 first! I think they fixed the meridian flip issue, but I'll definitely check!
This is on my wish list. Anybody want to buy an Esprit 100ED Triplet scope?
Hahaha the Esprit 100ED is supposed to be a great scope, don't sell it ;)
they forcing the tripod on ya any way to exclude that $300 don't need to throw in closet LOL
I found the page without tripod and added it to the links!
Hi- For when a ZWO AM5N vs WARP ASTRON WD20 0r 17?????????- Thanks for your videos
I'll have to think on it :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek The point is: Should you already have a ZWO AM5, are you going to buy the new AM5N?. My answer is not. Too expensive for the news advantages. I´d rather to buy a more technological advanced product. Said that, if you don´t have any harmonic equatorial mount then the new AM5N I´m sure is a very good product
can it handle a 8 inch sct
Will require testing - weight wise no issue at all
"Soft spot for soft cases." Very funny!!!!
Glad you noticed 😃
Schimmel Extension
Oh I appreciate the Airplane reference 😂 perhaps the new version may make the previous version cheaper so that I can afford it 😂 surely….
I love that movie :D And I'm sure there will be a lot of "standard" AM5 on classifieds lol
Already have the AM5, opening my wallet and it looks empty :(
You don't need to upgrade, so leave that wallet alone!
The PE means not much unless you are trying to keep a star in the center of an eyepiece. ZWO shortenthe period of the mount a while back to make those graphs look better. You have to look at the slope of the sudden switches on the curve itself. The slope and number if those are more important during guiding and imaging. Please don't propagate those misconceptions.
It's not quite a misconception though, since right now, even after guiding, RA retains a sinusoidal pattern of period 220s (i.e. it's not fully guided over). Obviously the slope is what matters for the second-to-second guiding, but a lower overall PE should also help make that longer period sinusoidal less present in final results :)
Warning: ZWO support doesn't exists. Your warranty means nothing. My AM5 has major mechanical problems. ZWO has ghosted me after the initial "try this, try that " emails.
The price looks the same as the existing AM5 so I suspect current AM5 owners will be angry if there is no free upgrade.
I think that's why in recent months they were giving away the tripod for free! But yeah I'd be annoyed if I had bought it recently, but such it is with tech...!
I already posted the link in CN haha
Nice!! Thank you :) 😊 I'm terrible at self promotion so in general I don't leave links to my own videos on forums, etc...
Nice.
Indeed!
Kautzer Crescent
finally decide to move forward and of course they are out of Stock LOL
Nooooo! But you may want to reserve yours, it's still being really good for me at least!
I'm going to wait a year before considering this type of mount. ZWO is getting bad about putting out new stuff so quick now, I'm going to wait a couple generations and see what they do with it. Astrophotography is getting as bad as cell phones. You buy something and companies release a better version before the new smell wears off lol
*** *** *** I don't have already my first light with my new AM5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And between ZWO put into market a new mount!!!! ARGH!
Maybe try contacting your dealer? And gently ask whether you could exchange? :p
I never liked the soft cases, they're quite fragile and feels a bit cheap, especially for a mount which costs a few grand.
I understand the feeling!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek It makes sense for the Seestar, but for this, should be a hard plastic case.
Stoltenberg Drives
👍👍
Madalyn Freeway
Brakus Hills
it isnt a bluetooth indicator
What isn't? The blue LED beneath the button you press to confirm Bluetooth connection? Is it another bluetooth related role?
Darwin Rapid
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
If anyone in the UK who will be selling their old AM5 for the new one, let me know .
I’m currently selling mine on eBay! Practically new. However I’m in the US.
Hahaha I'm sure there's a market now!
$4200 AUD with tripod yeah nah there is no competition at all seriously disappointed with ZWO
Unchanged priced as far as I can tell, not sure about other regions... But UMi is clearly pushing for lower prices :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I hope they can make it easier to buy downunder