Quick note on the power: many commenters note that exceeding 3A could be dangerous for the mount, so please keep that in mind and be less cavalier than I am to be safe! Also, it seems there is a Home setting feature in the app that could solve the issue with my dual scope, I will check it out! Buy the ZWO AM5N: bit.ly/3W3TWKe Without tripod: bit.ly/3XNxPZx Want something smaller? The AM3 should be good: bit.ly/4cAjxzQ Want something larger with more payload? The WarpAstron WD20 is for you! bit.ly/3wxNbGI You don't like red or prefer direct drive? the WarpAstron WD17 is here! bit.ly/4bsMOLF Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek
You can put on a power supply that can supply any level of current (amps), the devices will only take what they need. You can connect a 100 amp power supply and not have any issues, but do NOT exceed the maximum rated VOLTAGE.
@@PhilPassmore I've always thought this, and it should be the case for a well designed piece of electronics/electrical equipment, but I wonder if it is always true. Could there be a situation where a device relies on overcurrent protection in a power supply to prevent it from overheating eg. when powered up with a motor unable to rotate? Electronics get killed by high voltage, but motors and servos get killed by total power. Putting the protection in the approved power supply would be a janky way to do it, but does it get done?
@@hollo9571 you can only 'push' into a device by increasing the voltage. A power supply cannot 'push' current. For example, your mount will happily run off a 12 volt car battery, that CAN supply well upwards of 100 Amps, the device, no matter how badly designed, won't be flustered by the current available. That is why the expression is that the device 'draws' current, not that the power supply pushes it. The voltage however is a whole different ball game.
I’ve had the original AM5 for about 13 months now and am extremely pleased with it. Not so much so with the defective usb cables that came with it, but Simon at ZWO and then Agena helped me get that sorted. Going for the original AM5 was a big step for me because it was by far the most expensive piece of astrophotography equipment I ever purchased, but it has kept me in the hobby (I’m 74). It is working so well that it doesn’t make sense for me to upgrade to the N, but for someone who is seeking their first strain wave mount, the N would be a great choice. Again, another great review. And congratulations on passing the 50K milestone!
Thanks so much! Also really good feedback, I'm glad the AM5 is working out so well for you (and I agree, people who have the AM5 don't need to upgrade to the AM5N!)
Having owned an MI-250, A Gemini G-11 an AP-900, EQ-6 (old version) and currently a SA GTi I cannot wait to take delivery of the AM-5N I just ordered. At 58 lifting huge mounts is getting less enjoyable. I’m excited to see how it performs with my Starseeker 150, Tak E-180 and TMB 92SS. Another fantastic review Cuiv 👍🏻
Here another SA GTi owner and really, really thinking about ordering an AM5N. I am running into guiding issues with a Nikon D780 and 600mm Sigma lens. With the guide scope attached to the camera I am getting close to the SA GTi's limit (the combo weighs 4.3kg and the GTi can handle up to 5kg). Guiding is a bit of an issue with this combo. And since I was considering buying a ZWO FF80 scope I am now really thinking about going the AM5N route.
Regarding the 90degree rotation of the saddle, you can just mill those things out and you'll be happy. While ZWO could implement holes at 90degrees in the mount so the same saddle could be used for both configurations
I was able to order the AM5N in advance of the ZWO release from my local dealer, and took delivery in the first week of July. I am very happy with it so far, although I have only been able to image with my small refractor rig that weighs around 4.5 Kg all up. I have run it with both ASIAIR and the Mele Quieter 4C. It’s my first Strain Wave mount, and the experience has been seamless so far. I am very happy to hear that it handled your dual rig so well- I guess it shouldn’t even notice my C8 setup!
Hi, one thing I couldn't find (maybe I missed it), is how the USB-C on the saddle works. From others reports, its IN only, and a not a passthrough from the main USB-B input from the body. So to get the usb cable management right, you need to have a mini-pc on the scope. If you use a laptop or remote pc, there's really no advantage to the usb-c port (maybe a disadvantage, as it now rotates with dec also). Its fine for those using ASIAir/mini-pc on the scope, but if not, something to be aware of.
I love the 12v power port on the AM5. I really hope ZWO adds that feature to the AM3 if they decide to upgrade it as well. I was going to get one until I saw it didn’t have it.
Thanks for this update on the AM5. I have mine on order at Agena Astro and look forward to using it. Appreciate your insight on this and your many other great reviews and teaching videos.
Very interesting video, thanks. I brought my AN5 in USA brought it to the country of Panama to use with my oversupply of telescopes, you know we just keep getting more telescopes as we age. It’s all new to me on the use of the telescope mount and enjoy using your knowledge to help gain confidence. Keep up the good work.
I've used the original AM5 for 7 months now, the last 3 with a Meade 10" SCT on it. The SCT and other gear are 15kg so I do use a few kg counter weights. I've never had a problem with the mount, polar alignment is easy, and my guiding is typically between .4 and .7 arc-seconds. Based on this I'm not surprised with your results. It's a great mount.
@@michaeltaschuk7744 in which case can i ask what size autoguider you use. Looking for my own approach since the OAG really stops me using the AM5 on my 8”SCT … and i thought these scopes had real issues using autoguiders…
thanks so much for this. it's great to know that the am5n works well, and you'd probably be very happy with either the am5n or the wd-17 (similar payload capacities). i'll the am5n on the wishlist as it's cheaper than getting the wd-17 + tripod, unless maybe there's another lightweight tripod that comes out that's better for this strainwave mounts. also, more thanks for checking on that meridian issue. good to know for sure that it's not a problem anymore
Hi Cuiv I Got my AM5N about a month and had some bad nights for testing. It works - and everything is fine BUT.... One of the big "Hype Points" are that good guiding ic cause of the HD Gear - wich means it doesnt run smoother but act faster to corrections. I Read a lot about how the AM5N works and how to Guide. With all of my "normal old school stuff" i have a 30/120 or 40/160 guidescope and a 120mm mini - and exposure about 1,5 to 2 secs - and everything is good. Now i hear that the big pont of that HD Drive is that the Mount act a lot more direct to move orders so can firmly better outguide any issue. And - my 120 sucks at exposure of about 1 sec or les - and when i push the Gain.. everything get worth. In the ZWO Forum there is a very long Thread about the Guiding of the AM5N and how to master it - in special with dhe diagramm that came with the mount. I now have a 220mm for better / shorter exposures and hope for better guiding but cant test it because clouds. So i ask for a bit help. How do you set your Guiding parameters (in my case in Asiair) and i am sure you know the LONG Thread i talk about... so for a not native english speaking person thats a lot of "kauderwelsch" (German word for un-understandable talking). Can you summarize it. or even better: Do you plan to make a Vid for AM5N Guiding?! Thx a Lot :) Kai from Rhein-Main Astronomie
I love my AM5. I just had it out last night with a TOA-130 on it, by no means a light scope and guiding log was .37 for average over 2+ hours, that's ridiculous! (It is mounted to a tri-pier so that helps)
I solved the saddle wiring for a dual setup issue by using a Vixen plate with two Vixen clamps, one on an adjust for aiming the scope on that side. So I bolt a shorter Losmandy plate rotated 90 degrees. Walla! No need to rotate the saddle. Tightening the AM5N knobs was a little fussy, but using the attached wrenche to make them snug worked well.
I have one on order from Starizona (it’s local for me) and I’m anxiously waiting its delivery. My Edge HD8 shooting at F7 with an OAG and a 533MC has proven too heavy for my AVX mount. Cannot adequately balance and guiding is terrible. I’m hoping this will solve the issues as my OTA comes in at 9.5Kg or 21 pounds. Too heavy with the added counterweights. Thank you for reassuring me that I made the correct choice. Great video as always.
You could connect the mount to a 12v 40amp power supply and would do no harm. The mount and associated equipment will only draw the required current amperage from the available 40 amps. Having excess amperage available on you DC feed is fine, having insufficient could cause damage or malfunctions. I work with a lot of Radio equipment and the current draw principle is the same.
@CuivTheLazyGeek Apparently the saddle output should give out 12v @ 5amp, which is the required output for the ASIair. So if you supply the mount itself with a minimum of 10amps it will power the mount and output and still leave a 2amp margin.
Cuiv your results are pretty incredible! Normally you need an expensive mount with encoders to get that type of performance. But only for $2000USD? Wow I'm impressed. Way to go ZWO!
wow. Great video. I'm old school and have a EQ6 with ESQmod but the time it takes to set up is a lot as the weather here in Ireland is so bad. Am I right in thinking I could add my meade 127mm refractor, a ZWO autofocuser, ASIair and ZWO ASI2600MC Pro smart camera to this mount and it will pretty much auto polar align, with some tweaking, autofocus and goto objects and take great images? I basically want to carry out my kit, roughly point it north and then run back in and use a pad to do mst of the rest of the work without too much back and forth.
Thanks for the review Cuiv. Just places my order. Been fighting with my cgem dx for years now. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Changed both motors twice now over the 10 years ive had it. Most of all though, it weighs a ton and i find myself less and less apt to drag it out of the house if its not a 100% perfect night. Never got ascom to work properly with it either which was a real bummer after getting the 2600 duo (no phone jack for autoguiding).
Nice summary, cheers Cuiv. One of my minor bugbears is power in astro systems (I do a fair amount of electronics development in my line of work) and its over-use of 12v power systems (convenient though it is for portable/battery systems). I’d really have liked the AM5 to at least have a DC-DC converter inside so you can feed a higher voltage (which has lower power loss) and not have this damage the mount, but the two power jacks seem to be wired in parallel. Feed in 13v and you get 13v out of the secondary jack (and vice versa). I’m really not sure how one can be limited to 5A and the other 3A if they’re directly on the same power bus (unless they have independent fuses on the board: looking inside is not clear)… and without a proper schematic it’s impossible to tell! However, from the manual ZWO state that the mount can take 11-14v: important for lead-acid batteries as a full charge gives more like 12.9v and for some of the Lithium battery packs that state 12v output it is actually 11.1v - the cheaper ones are just three 3.7v cells wired in series. Enter a big slew or camera cooler set point and the extra current draw can cause the voltage to drop, and if it then goes below 11v the AM5 will complain and can even cause data connection issues. To guard against this I try to use ~13v for all my astronomy gear (plenty of options for well priced power supplies, particularly in the radio ham community) and then a bit of voltage drop between power supply and mount does not cause issues. Or, for those confident with a soldering iron, hook up a DC-DC converter that will regulate a wide input voltage (typically 9-18v input) to a fixed 12v output right at the pier (and adds another layer of short circuit protection). P.S. Tracking I measure 0.47A (at 12v, but this peaks at 1.75A during slew (say, setting it to the home using both axes) so having extra current capacity is important… if one connector (the one soldered directly on the board) is rated 5A and uses almost 2A that for tracking/slewing then I assume that’s why the other is set at “the difference” of 3A (or maybe it’s the rating of the cabling internally). Myself I would be wary of using the full 5A rating by using the secondary port to power the telescope gear. Better have the power come into a device such as the Stellarmate Pro (which I use) and send power from that to the mount, camera, etc. Or equivalent from pegasus, etc, or just make your own splitter…
Ive been in the Hobby since 2018. Back then I had no problems hauling the EQ6R out, attaching the Esprit 80 and then packing it all away... but now its a chore and I won't be able to do it for ever. I have also infected myself with Aperture Syndrome, but have not yet decided to get a larger refractor (increasing weight) or kink the learning curve and get a reflector of some sort. AM5N or WD20? Im not sure yet. But I am sure that when I watch your videos, I am getting a sound opinion based on informative reviews which has enabled me to make informed purchase decisions in the past. Not just product reviews either... understanding things like F Ratios, Pixel Scale, under/over sampling are so helpful... That's why I am subscribed to your channel. Thanks Cuiv
I could see the mild panic at giving too glowing of a review: "oh, no, this is so good people will think I'm shilling for the company". There are MANY shills on youtube; you show no indication of giving in to that temptation. I've bought a few things on your recommendation (filters, focusers, C6, etc.) and have yet to be disappointed. Keep it up
I just ordered it based on your video. I got it from highpoint, but that's mostly cause it had Bread financing with a slightly lower interest rate. But sorry I didn't use your link. I'll ask if it's not too late though.
You'll enjoy this mount a lot! Thanks for thinking of me! I think if you let them know, they can definitely manually link it to my affiliate account, thanks so much for making the effort!!
If it can hold its upper limit in kg and guiding is so precise at the same time, then a classic C11 at 12.5 kg is a piece of cake, and with all the imaging stuff it will be at a bit less than 15 kg, so yes, it seems it is the absolute harmonic mount. With counterweights, it could certainly guide a 12" LX200 OTA (16.5 kg) with the same results. Such a great mount it seems to be.
The unlimited rotation can be achieved using a electric swivel that is able to transfer energy and signal from the static part to the rotary part. I saw this approach in stabilized vsat antennas and offshore cranes.
I would be wary of using the saddle output to power the rest of the rig. Either use it for just the main camera or for everything else (mini PC, guide cam, dew heaters, focuser, filter wheel, etc.), but not everything at once. Sure, it might work ok for now, but the output is specced for 3A for a reason. And all that gear can and will draw more than 3A at some points, sometimes just in short spikes and sometimes for a longer sustained period (seconds or minutes). What happens then will depend on what sort of protections both the mount and your DC splitter (or AsiAIR or whatever else) uses. Might be just a harmless shutdown at best (though even that can lead to a wasted night) or at worst something might fry.
I agree with what you've said here, looking at the connectors they appear to be JST which have a limit of 1a per pin, i expect they are sharing the load over multiple pins in order to reach the 3a capacity, 6 pins would be enough for 3a. The wire also looked pretty thin, I'm guessing around 24awg, As you say it's quite possible to draw more current than rated without any "apparent" issues but things will be getting hot as a result, if the wire gets hot enough for the insulation to become soft there is a risk of them shorting together which could cause a lot of damage to the mounts power circuitry. Occasionally exceeding the 3a limit shouldn't be a problem as long as it is not prolonged bit it's definitely not advisable. I hope ZWO have included a fuse of some type in the power circuit to protect against this.
Thanks guys for the tip! I gotta say I've been guilty of running the rig multiple times again (and now the CarbonStar rig) on top of the AM5N with the power provided through the saddle, but this gives me second thoughts...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek you could use an Inline power meter to measure the current, i vaguely remember you using something like this to aid in polar alignment some time ago.
That's exactly what they are doing: it's a 4 pin connector internally: two used for ground and two for +ve (12v or whateven input you are using). And I dont see a fuse internally so always be sure you use a fused input (the cigarette style plugs usually have an 8A fuse). Yep, I am a bit paranoid.. I've blown up enough electrical stuff in my time...!
Thanks for the testing! I am on the wait list for an AM5N as it was almost immediately back ordered. Even though I have multiple AP mounts now, I want something that I can take to a dark site easily and there is no ‘easy’ when it comes to an AP mount. They are big, heavy and complicated. So going to give the AM5N a try along with an ASI AIR for a mobile setup. For star parties I’ll still bring an AP mount, but only one and have the AM5N there for a second mount.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks Cuiv, The truth of the matter is that while the mount is important for AP, most any mounts can be used to take fabulous images. A friend of mine has ‘3’ of these AM5 mounts and uses them simultaneously. His images are as good as anyone’s.
I think the only negative I could see was the focus of your face was losing lock constantly. 🤣🤣🤣 Sorry couldn’t help myself! It’s really great to hear that the technology is improving and new generation versions are better. I’ve heard that meridian flip issue so many times on Cloudy Nights!
Thanks for the update Cuiv. I'm getting ever closer to ordering one of these. I've been waiting to see what Sky Watchers new SWG mounts are like, but here in the UK they won't even announce a release date. I'll give them another month and if no news it will definitely be the AM5N.
If you’re looking for an easy and quickly removable solution to the sideways saddle problem for side by side configurations I’ve found at least one: Get a secondary saddle of whatever size and style is your preference, and a short dovetail plate from ADM or someone reputable, and bolt them together back to back at 90 degrees to each another. Instant 90 degree saddle when you need it. I’ve got a photo but I guess attachments are not supported.
It's honestly quite good - since I now have multiple mounts though I ended up taking the Frankenscope apart (I needed to remove one of the primary mirrors to unfasten a little bit the clips but needed to remove the scope from the setup to be able to achieve this), and now the AM5N has a simple CarbonStar on top of it!
Apart from the mass the torque is important as well. Do you have any idea about the torque of the frankenscope? As a note, your scopes have a rather short focal length, I’m wondering how a SCT with 2000+mm FL (OAG) will perform. On the subject of power, running dew heaters seem out of the question with 3A, and those are not uncommon…
I'm not sure exactly how far from the axis of rotation the center of gravity of the scope is... An SCT would be lighter so it has that going for it, but I can't answer for sure! And I agree, dew heaters would be out of question...!
Very interesting! Rather than filing off those nubs, I wonder if there may perhaps be a good 3D printing solution that some enterprizing bystander could explore for a little fun and profit? Random thought. As always, thank you very much for the great work that you do!
hello Cuiv, thanks for the review. Have ever thought about similar compartive review among "low payload" armonic drive mount (AM3 vs.... ) ? it could be nice in particual for who wants to have an affordable, trustable, reliable, light setup to take photo outside.
So, for the dual scope, why didn't you simply mount the long dovetail to a second, short dovetail bar at 90 degrees instead of changing out the ZWO saddle?
It will be great to compare high-end equipment with mass-made equipment. For example, QHY scientific cameras, FLI, Chroma, AP, Tak, TEC, PlaneWave, Paramount versus ZWO, Orion, iOptron, Askars, Antlia, Optolong, etc. By the way, what is On-Step? Is it developed by ZWO, or highjacked from open source?
I have been waiting for this video Cuiv. Both of the AM5N videos provided a good review of the mount. The AM5N will likely be my next major purchase. I am waiting for a few more reviews on Cloudy Nights and RUclips. I am still unsure about the spring tensioning arrangement for the AZ base and the AZ adjustment. I would have liked to see an arrangement like Losmandy or Astro Physics uses to adjust the AZ on their mounts. The reduced PE is good but the RA periodic error plot that’s supplied with the mounts still looks random and not repeatable. I don’t think PHD2 Predictive PEC would work well with harmonic drive mounts. I would like to see testing with and without Predictive PEC in a future review. I still have concerns about the drive belt design. Can you please decrease the scale on the Y Axis so we can see more details on the PHD2 plots. It would also be nice if you can post PHD2 plots in the ‘Cloud’ so we can have a closer look.
Hi Cuiv. Great test! Thanks for letting me know about the cables. I don't think you missed anything. Its a great mount. I'd caution that an enthusiastic all clear on power is probably premature. I dont have this mount, and I thought I had addressed power "rigourously" on my AM5 and AM3 rigs (but STILL I missed a key point). I recently realised (by dint of a catastrophic failure) that my cigarette lighter power cables were only 3A (and one of them had cooked). I suspect this might have also fried my Celestron Powertank (I'll only know after testing when new cables are delivered). In any case I'm facing expensive consequences from a slightly 'happy go lucky' approach. Replacing a cable is one thing but you would not want this to happen in your mount. This was on my AM3 with only one dewstrap (likely off on that night) and a 2600MC duo @ -10C. But also my AM5 rig has a 13kg refractor slewing around (and two hungry dewstraps) on top of what your redcat had. So I think it is STILL an issue if unwary consumers are led to 'expect' something that mostly appears to work (ignoring the smallprint invalidating their guarantee). They could subsequently be disappointed, out of pocket, or troubleshooting instead of imaging, and unable to make a claim. BTW when I swapped in my Jackery it indicated that the AM3 rig was drawing 33W (only 2.75A) while idling along, - but slewing or other peaks probably pushed it too hard.
Thanks for the tip, and user name checks out! Yeah I would never add dew heaters to the through the mount saddle, I really hope ZWO have a fuse or similar in place...!
@CuivTheLazyGeek I know you are likely tired doing mount reviews, but frankly you do a very good job. I am wondering if you are going to look at the Sky-Watcher Wave 150i Strainwave Mount Head I'm interested in either the 150i or AM5N they are both targeted at the same price range. I'd like to know your comparative review of these two, or at least a base review including guiding quality of the Wave 150i thanks
Going to go for either the older AM5 or the new AM5N, but I need to run a dual scope setup similar to your Frankenscope. Can the AM5N saddle do it? I can hardly wait for your answer!!! Is there a performance difference that you can see in your images between the two?
I get similar results with my NYX-101. I use my Polemaster to get a good polar alignment. Then do my calibration on M12 as it too is near the celestial equator. And depending on the seeing I typically get between 0.8 and 0.5 arc seconds on my guiding. Sometimes I will drop into 0.48 area but that is somewhat rare for me. But I'm perfectly happy with the results I'm getting. I think the NYX-101 has similar type 17 motors. Very informative video. I'm going to recommend the AM5 to my nephew who is interested in getting into the hobby. ;0)
Those nubs are crazy... the original AM5 saddle doesn't have that. I've rotated the plate 90˚ and done dual scope setup with the AM5 no problem. Maybe it's because of the new electronics they decided to do that.
It seems to be a nice mount! As with everything, time will tell... I don't expect any real problems though. I won't upgrade yet. For the saddle problem zwo can easily spec just 1 more receiving hole for the little alignment nubs so it can be used 90 degrees rotation. (Or 2 holes to allow freedom to go either way.) No programming change needed to the mount, just a small change in the cnc master file. Or they can do that in the mount software and not make the modified hole. Myself, being in the trades for most of my life, would opt for the physical extra hole as being the most elegant and simple change. It must be a precise as the rest since it is an alignment hole and not just clearance which is easy because outlet use the already mounted tool in the cnc machine.
Oh wow, weird! I mean backlash in Alt is fine for me as long as the locks don't move the alignment - but if you want almost zero backlash in alt, the EM31Pro is the way to go
Haha sounds like zwo has knocked it out of the park with this mount. Still a shame that they are so apple like. But i think till i grow out of the "zwo sphere" but it seems to work well for someone a bit more... simple minded like myself. Haha. Great review cuiv. Always so excited to see your new videos
Yep, exactly - they definitely make good stuff, but the closed ecosystem bit (that is built on the top of open source software!) does rub me the wrong way!
I'm looking at a full 'big' rig and the new sk'ywatcher strainwaves are now released. Been trying to save for an AM5 .....But I'm thinking I'll wait until you, Luke, and Nico get to review the new toys!!
Great review! Sorry if I missed it in a previous video but curious what make/model of tripod you are using with the Frankenscope setup? (shown @ 1:40). Looks like the AM5/AM5N bolts directly to it without any adapters. Thanks Cuiv!
Given your experiences with multiple types of telescopes, and now you have had an opportunity to test this mount, would you recommend this mount for a C8 SCT with an OAG and ASI174mm mini guide camera, with focal lengths from 1400 to 2032mm? If you only had a SCT would you take a chance and purchase this mount? I've got less than a year's experience in this hobby. Thank you.
Difficult to say since I haven't tested directly with such a scope, but it seems it would work well - although the old AM5 specified something like "up to 900mm focal length". Maybe you need to wait for someone like Lukomatico to release his own review video, he does have SCTs to test with I believe!
The Mele Quieter 4C requires a power supply of at least 24 watts. At 12v, that’s up to 2 amps (amps = watts / volts) just for the PC. I would definitely reconcider your power supply/distribution situation.
My Quieter 4C is drawing nowhere near 24 watts with SharpCap, PHD2, and Stellarium controlling the mount via ASCOM device hub/ USB serial. I am typically seeing around 8-10 watts. I am using the standard power settings in the BIOS. I have been using the AM5N mount saddle power with my Mele, EAF, 533MC Pro, 585MC for guiding, and two dew heaters. I am also using a USB-C monitor powered from the Mele. At least with my setup, I can watch power consumption with my Bluetti battery, and I have seen a max of around 23 watts draw, including mount power, even when slewing.
Oh wow, including the dew heaters??? I really hope the AM5N has an internal fuse though, I don't think I'd dare use dew heaters via that output port on the saddle!
Hey Cuiv, thanks for the review. I just sold a EQ6R-Pro and im in the market for a new mount for the edgehd8. AM5N seems like a good option. Can you reccommend a reasonable (price and stability) tripod? I do not like the stock zwo one, it seems clunky, but i never had it on hand. Thanks!
the best thing would be to have the mount plate with 2 extra holes at 90 degrees angle to have it fit perfectly and snugly. That could be another update in design for ZWO, not a hard one to accomplish
One question about the saddle port I haven't seen an answer to - is the USB-C port only a device port for controlling the mount from a host riding the telescope, or can you use it as a hub port directly to the camera, with the host connected to the front USB-B port? Obviously in the latter case you wouldn't have USB3 between the host and camera but that's ok if you're not taking video.
So I can use the AM5N to power my AsiAir Mini which is supplying power to my 533mc pro, eaf, and 120mm mini? That would be the main reason for me to upgrade to this from the former version, as I *really* want a cable snag-free setup. According to this video, I should be able to. But I see people also say you can’t, or rather, shouldn’t do that.
Yeah in my tests it seems to be fine, and at least one other has tried with scope dew heaters as well and seen it worked fine (I wouldn't dare). My own experience says yes (I have also tested with my CarbonStar and other cameras on top, power from the mount) - but others than me are more knowledgeable... That's all I can say for sure! That said the AsiAir Mini, 533MC and 120MM+EAF should be eating less than 3A at all times I would assume, so I do think it's fine!
Great review! Thank you. Curious to know if the performance is the same with the ASIAIR Plus/Mini?! I am very happy with my AM3, which seems to be very similar to the AM5N. What are your guiding settings in EKOS?
This could just be me but, I think zwo will adjust the mount saddle so you can spin it 90deg. I'm guessing it may have been something that was over looked then they designed this version, lets face it all they need to do is add another two small holes
Where do you get this guiding log. I have guiding logs but it’s only text file with a whole lot of numbers. I want it to be like yours showing me a graph and total guiding accuracy.
The saddle issue can be resolved if ZWO just drilled a third hole under the saddle, so that the "bumps" will still have two holes to sit in when it is turned for an array setup.👍 Send ZWO an email and tell them that I said to just do it. 😁
It seems they advertize the same payload without CW, but more (25kg) with CW! And it seems to have better through the mount cabling - but I haven't tested it yet, can't say for sure!
Somebody is pacing impatiently outside Cuiv's room. Anyway, my question is: should I ditch my AM5 mount, and get AM5N instead ? Currently, I am using it as Alt-Az for EAA.
@@l.m2517 i think zwo upped the payload on original am5 by magic, er i mean software er might be worth checking. The powered usb saddle makes envious but then im envious of the original am5
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Indeed, my largest gripe with the AM5 mount is that they use simplified algorithm for multi-star alignment. Apparently, they do polynomial inerpolation of the stars positions, instead of aligning their internal coordinates with the real coordinates. The most vocal person about it is the user "w7ay" on the zwoastro forum. I had a Celestron AZ mount which was very precise. AM5N is likely to be the same as AM5. I better look into the latest Celestron mounts or maybe SkyWatcher wave 100i or 150i.
I like the AM3, using it with the Carbonstar and getting < .5" guiding. Easy mode compared to my older mount! Since I already purchased the AM3 my bet is the AM3N isn't too far away.
* * * I have first light, with my "old" AM5, wow i'm guiding 0.45-0.65 arcseconds with NINA (YOU are such an influencer!), with 10kg++ of quattro 200/800, and I know that there is a beta firmware HDR for IMX585. But with only some hours of guiding, I will wait for a full night for a real test with multiple target.
I have not seen any SW mounts tested with counterweights, it is like a conspiracy :) So, if you perfectly balance the mount, can you guide even better?
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Well, RedCat did better than the FrankenScope, naturally perfectly balanced system should do even better (into 0.3" area?). I hope you try the counterweights one day. Thanks.
Quick note on the power: many commenters note that exceeding 3A could be dangerous for the mount, so please keep that in mind and be less cavalier than I am to be safe! Also, it seems there is a Home setting feature in the app that could solve the issue with my dual scope, I will check it out!
Buy the ZWO AM5N: bit.ly/3W3TWKe
Without tripod: bit.ly/3XNxPZx
Want something smaller? The AM3 should be good: bit.ly/4cAjxzQ
Want something larger with more payload? The WarpAstron WD20 is for you! bit.ly/3wxNbGI
You don't like red or prefer direct drive? the WarpAstron WD17 is here! bit.ly/4bsMOLF
Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG
My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek
you should see our eastern european rigs, car batteries or amazon bare batteries put into a plastic box with cheap wiring
@@astroslap I can smell the jank and I love it!!
You can put on a power supply that can supply any level of current (amps), the devices will only take what they need. You can connect a 100 amp power supply and not have any issues, but do NOT exceed the maximum rated VOLTAGE.
@@PhilPassmore I've always thought this, and it should be the case for a well designed piece of electronics/electrical equipment, but I wonder if it is always true. Could there be a situation where a device relies on overcurrent protection in a power supply to prevent it from overheating eg. when powered up with a motor unable to rotate? Electronics get killed by high voltage, but motors and servos get killed by total power. Putting the protection in the approved power supply would be a janky way to do it, but does it get done?
@@hollo9571 you can only 'push' into a device by increasing the voltage. A power supply cannot 'push' current. For example, your mount will happily run off a 12 volt car battery, that CAN supply well upwards of 100 Amps, the device, no matter how badly designed, won't be flustered by the current available. That is why the expression is that the device 'draws' current, not that the power supply pushes it. The voltage however is a whole different ball game.
I’ve had the original AM5 for about 13 months now and am extremely pleased with it. Not so much so with the defective usb cables that came with it, but Simon at ZWO and then Agena helped me get that sorted. Going for the original AM5 was a big step for me because it was by far the most expensive piece of astrophotography equipment I ever purchased, but it has kept me in the hobby (I’m 74). It is working so well that it doesn’t make sense for me to upgrade to the N, but for someone who is seeking their first strain wave mount, the N would be a great choice. Again, another great review. And congratulations on passing the 50K milestone!
Thanks so much! Also really good feedback, I'm glad the AM5 is working out so well for you (and I agree, people who have the AM5 don't need to upgrade to the AM5N!)
Having owned an MI-250, A Gemini G-11 an AP-900, EQ-6 (old version) and currently a SA GTi I cannot wait to take delivery of the AM-5N I just ordered. At 58 lifting huge mounts is getting less enjoyable. I’m excited to see how it performs with my Starseeker 150, Tak E-180 and TMB 92SS. Another fantastic review Cuiv 👍🏻
Hope you enjoy it!
Yep. I'm 57 and have a bad back. I swapped over to a strain wave mount and haven't looked back!
Here another SA GTi owner and really, really thinking about ordering an AM5N. I am running into guiding issues with a Nikon D780 and 600mm Sigma lens. With the guide scope attached to the camera I am getting close to the SA GTi's limit (the combo weighs 4.3kg and the GTi can handle up to 5kg). Guiding is a bit of an issue with this combo. And since I was considering buying a ZWO FF80 scope I am now really thinking about going the AM5N route.
Regarding the 90degree rotation of the saddle, you can just mill those things out and you'll be happy. While ZWO could implement holes at 90degrees in the mount so the same saddle could be used for both configurations
Agree! For now though things are fine :)
I was able to order the AM5N in advance of the ZWO release from my local dealer, and took delivery in the first week of July. I am very happy with it so far, although I have only been able to image with my small refractor rig that weighs around 4.5 Kg all up. I have run it with both ASIAIR and the Mele Quieter 4C. It’s my first Strain Wave mount, and the experience has been seamless so far. I am very happy to hear that it handled your dual rig so well- I guess it shouldn’t even notice my C8 setup!
Glad to hear you've been having such a good experience! Enjoy your first SWG mount, I think they are revolutionary!
You don't need to remove the saddle to adjust home position, you can customize saddle home positioning with the ZWO AM5 app.
May I ask, when the AM5N is rotated 90 degrees to the home position, does the wiring inside the saddle get disconnected or cut?
Congrats on the passing 50k subscribers. Another great video.
Thanks so much Marvin!!
Hi, one thing I couldn't find (maybe I missed it), is how the USB-C on the saddle works. From others reports, its IN only, and a not a passthrough from the main USB-B input from the body.
So to get the usb cable management right, you need to have a mini-pc on the scope. If you use a laptop or remote pc, there's really no advantage to the usb-c port (maybe a disadvantage, as it now rotates with dec also).
Its fine for those using ASIAir/mini-pc on the scope, but if not, something to be aware of.
I love the 12v power port on the AM5. I really hope ZWO adds that feature to the AM3 if they decide to upgrade it as well. I was going to get one until I saw it didn’t have it.
Thanks for this update on the AM5. I have mine on order at Agena Astro and look forward to using it. Appreciate your insight on this and your many other great reviews and teaching videos.
It's a really good mount, you'll enjoy it for sure!
Very interesting video, thanks. I brought my AN5 in USA brought it to the country of Panama to use with my oversupply of telescopes, you know we just keep getting more telescopes as we age. It’s all new to me on the use of the telescope mount and enjoy using your knowledge to help gain confidence. Keep up the good work.
I've used the original AM5 for 7 months now, the last 3 with a Meade 10" SCT on it. The SCT and other gear are 15kg so I do use a few kg counter weights. I've never had a problem with the mount, polar alignment is easy, and my guiding is typically between .4 and .7 arc-seconds. Based on this I'm not surprised with your results. It's a great mount.
Can i ask if you use OAG at that Focal Length? No issues with using a strainwave mount? Thx
@@chrislee8886no I have a separate guide scope on the SCT.
No issues at all with the mount as long as I had the correct counterweight.
@@michaeltaschuk7744 in which case can i ask what size autoguider you use. Looking for my own approach since the OAG really stops me using the AM5 on my 8”SCT … and i thought these scopes had real issues using autoguiders…
Thanks Cuiv. What about testing with counterweights and a heavier payload?
I actually don't have the heavier payload nor the counterweight shaft, maybe in the future!
thanks so much for this. it's great to know that the am5n works well, and you'd probably be very happy with either the am5n or the wd-17 (similar payload capacities). i'll the am5n on the wishlist as it's cheaper than getting the wd-17 + tripod, unless maybe there's another lightweight tripod that comes out that's better for this strainwave mounts.
also, more thanks for checking on that meridian issue. good to know for sure that it's not a problem anymore
Yep, I think either mount will work quite well!
Hi Cuiv
I Got my AM5N about a month and had some bad nights for testing. It works - and everything is fine BUT....
One of the big "Hype Points" are that good guiding ic cause of the HD Gear - wich means it doesnt run smoother but act faster to corrections.
I Read a lot about how the AM5N works and how to Guide.
With all of my "normal old school stuff" i have a 30/120 or 40/160 guidescope and a 120mm mini - and exposure about 1,5 to 2 secs - and everything is good.
Now i hear that the big pont of that HD Drive is that the Mount act a lot more direct to move orders so can firmly better outguide any issue.
And - my 120 sucks at exposure of about 1 sec or les - and when i push the Gain.. everything get worth.
In the ZWO Forum there is a very long Thread about the Guiding of the AM5N and how to master it - in special with dhe diagramm that came with the mount.
I now have a 220mm for better / shorter exposures and hope for better guiding but cant test it because clouds.
So i ask for a bit help. How do you set your Guiding parameters (in my case in Asiair) and i am sure you know the LONG Thread i talk about... so for a not native english speaking person thats a lot of "kauderwelsch" (German word for un-understandable talking). Can you summarize it. or even better:
Do you plan to make a Vid for AM5N Guiding?!
Thx a Lot :)
Kai from Rhein-Main Astronomie
Impressive reporting and results. Thanks for your hard work, Cuiv.
I love my AM5. I just had it out last night with a TOA-130 on it, by no means a light scope and guiding log was .37 for average over 2+ hours, that's ridiculous! (It is mounted to a tri-pier so that helps)
Hahaha that's so nice! I'm so happy we're getting those really well performing SWG mounts :)
I solved the saddle wiring for a dual setup issue by using a Vixen plate with two Vixen clamps, one on an adjust for aiming the scope on that side. So I bolt a shorter Losmandy plate rotated 90 degrees. Walla! No need to rotate the saddle. Tightening the AM5N knobs was a little fussy, but using the attached wrenche to make them snug worked well.
I have one on order from Starizona (it’s local for me) and I’m anxiously waiting its delivery. My Edge HD8 shooting at F7 with an OAG and a 533MC has proven too heavy for my AVX mount. Cannot adequately balance and guiding is terrible. I’m hoping this will solve the issues as my OTA comes in at 9.5Kg or 21 pounds. Too heavy with the added counterweights. Thank you for reassuring me that I made the correct choice. Great video as always.
You could connect the mount to a 12v 40amp power supply and would do no harm. The mount and associated equipment will only draw the required current amperage from the available 40 amps. Having excess amperage available on you DC feed is fine, having insufficient could cause damage or malfunctions. I work with a lot of Radio equipment and the current draw principle is the same.
Yep, agree - here the risk is having too little on the saddle output... (I think)
@CuivTheLazyGeek Apparently the saddle output should give out 12v @ 5amp, which is the required output for the ASIair. So if you supply the mount itself with a minimum of 10amps it will power the mount and output and still leave a 2amp margin.
Cuiv your results are pretty incredible! Normally you need an expensive mount with encoders to get that type of performance. But only for $2000USD? Wow I'm impressed. Way to go ZWO!
Thanks Dave! Yeah, ZWO knocked it out of the park here as far as I can tell... I wish they have made the saddle DC output 5A though :p
wow. Great video. I'm old school and have a EQ6 with ESQmod but the time it takes to set up is a lot as the weather here in Ireland is so bad. Am I right in thinking I could add my meade 127mm refractor, a ZWO autofocuser, ASIair and ZWO ASI2600MC Pro smart camera to this mount and it will pretty much auto polar align, with some tweaking, autofocus and goto objects and take great images? I basically want to carry out my kit, roughly point it north and then run back in and use a pad to do mst of the rest of the work without too much back and forth.
Thanks for the review Cuiv. Just places my order. Been fighting with my cgem dx for years now. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Changed both motors twice now over the 10 years ive had it. Most of all though, it weighs a ton and i find myself less and less apt to drag it out of the house if its not a 100% perfect night. Never got ascom to work properly with it either which was a real bummer after getting the 2600 duo (no phone jack for autoguiding).
Thank you for the review! I hope you will be able to test skywatcher wave 150i when it is out
Don't hold your breath though unless someone like Agena sends a review sample to me... I've never managed to get in tough with SW!
Nice summary, cheers Cuiv. One of my minor bugbears is power in astro systems (I do a fair amount of electronics development in my line of work) and its over-use of 12v power systems (convenient though it is for portable/battery systems). I’d really have liked the AM5 to at least have a DC-DC converter inside so you can feed a higher voltage (which has lower power loss) and not have this damage the mount, but the two power jacks seem to be wired in parallel. Feed in 13v and you get 13v out of the secondary jack (and vice versa). I’m really not sure how one can be limited to 5A and the other 3A if they’re directly on the same power bus (unless they have independent fuses on the board: looking inside is not clear)… and without a proper schematic it’s impossible to tell! However, from the manual ZWO state that the mount can take 11-14v: important for lead-acid batteries as a full charge gives more like 12.9v and for some of the Lithium battery packs that state 12v output it is actually 11.1v - the cheaper ones are just three 3.7v cells wired in series. Enter a big slew or camera cooler set point and the extra current draw can cause the voltage to drop, and if it then goes below 11v the AM5 will complain and can even cause data connection issues. To guard against this I try to use ~13v for all my astronomy gear (plenty of options for well priced power supplies, particularly in the radio ham community) and then a bit of voltage drop between power supply and mount does not cause issues. Or, for those confident with a soldering iron, hook up a DC-DC converter that will regulate a wide input voltage (typically 9-18v input) to a fixed 12v output right at the pier (and adds another layer of short circuit protection).
P.S. Tracking I measure 0.47A (at 12v, but this peaks at 1.75A during slew (say, setting it to the home using both axes) so having extra current capacity is important… if one connector (the one soldered directly on the board) is rated 5A and uses almost 2A that for tracking/slewing then I assume that’s why the other is set at “the difference” of 3A (or maybe it’s the rating of the cabling internally). Myself I would be wary of using the full 5A rating by using the secondary port to power the telescope gear. Better have the power come into a device such as the Stellarmate Pro (which I use) and send power from that to the mount, camera, etc. Or equivalent from pegasus, etc, or just make your own splitter…
Ive been in the Hobby since 2018. Back then I had no problems hauling the EQ6R out, attaching the Esprit 80 and then packing it all away... but now its a chore and I won't be able to do it for ever. I have also infected myself with Aperture Syndrome, but have not yet decided to get a larger refractor (increasing weight) or kink the learning curve and get a reflector of some sort. AM5N or WD20? Im not sure yet. But I am sure that when I watch your videos, I am getting a sound opinion based on informative reviews which has enabled me to make informed purchase decisions in the past. Not just product reviews either... understanding things like F Ratios, Pixel Scale, under/over sampling are so helpful... That's why I am subscribed to your channel.
Thanks Cuiv
I could see the mild panic at giving too glowing of a review: "oh, no, this is so good people will think I'm shilling for the company". There are MANY shills on youtube; you show no indication of giving in to that temptation. I've bought a few things on your recommendation (filters, focusers, C6, etc.) and have yet to be disappointed. Keep it up
Hahaha you absolutely read my mind!! 🤣
I just ordered it based on your video. I got it from highpoint, but that's mostly cause it had Bread financing with a slightly lower interest rate. But sorry I didn't use your link. I'll ask if it's not too late though.
You'll enjoy this mount a lot! Thanks for thinking of me! I think if you let them know, they can definitely manually link it to my affiliate account, thanks so much for making the effort!!
Greate video. I would like to see the PHD2 analysis and Guiding Assistant run on the AM5N mount including the DEC backlash graph.
If it can hold its upper limit in kg and guiding is so precise at the same time, then a classic C11 at 12.5 kg is a piece of cake, and with all the imaging stuff it will be at a bit less than 15 kg, so yes, it seems it is the absolute harmonic mount. With counterweights, it could certainly guide a 12" LX200 OTA (16.5 kg) with the same results. Such a great mount it seems to be.
Yeah I hope Lukomatico will test it with an SCT!
The unlimited rotation can be achieved using a electric swivel that is able to transfer energy and signal from the static part to the rotary part. I saw this approach in stabilized vsat antennas and offshore cranes.
Another great overview, Cuiv. Not having those locking levers could be worth the price of entry...
I would be wary of using the saddle output to power the rest of the rig. Either use it for just the main camera or for everything else (mini PC, guide cam, dew heaters, focuser, filter wheel, etc.), but not everything at once.
Sure, it might work ok for now, but the output is specced for 3A for a reason. And all that gear can and will draw more than 3A at some points, sometimes just in short spikes and sometimes for a longer sustained period (seconds or minutes). What happens then will depend on what sort of protections both the mount and your DC splitter (or AsiAIR or whatever else) uses. Might be just a harmless shutdown at best (though even that can lead to a wasted night) or at worst something might fry.
I agree with what you've said here, looking at the connectors they appear to be JST which have a limit of 1a per pin, i expect they are sharing the load over multiple pins in order to reach the 3a capacity, 6 pins would be enough for 3a. The wire also looked pretty thin, I'm guessing around 24awg,
As you say it's quite possible to draw more current than rated without any "apparent" issues but things will be getting hot as a result, if the wire gets hot enough for the insulation to become soft there is a risk of them shorting together which could cause a lot of damage to the mounts power circuitry. Occasionally exceeding the 3a limit shouldn't be a problem as long as it is not prolonged bit it's definitely not advisable. I hope ZWO have included a fuse of some type in the power circuit to protect against this.
Thanks guys for the tip! I gotta say I've been guilty of running the rig multiple times again (and now the CarbonStar rig) on top of the AM5N with the power provided through the saddle, but this gives me second thoughts...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek you could use an Inline power meter to measure the current, i vaguely remember you using something like this to aid in polar alignment some time ago.
That's exactly what they are doing: it's a 4 pin connector internally: two used for ground and two for +ve (12v or whateven input you are using). And I dont see a fuse internally so always be sure you use a fused input (the cigarette style plugs usually have an 8A fuse). Yep, I am a bit paranoid.. I've blown up enough electrical stuff in my time...!
Thanks for the testing! I am on the wait list for an AM5N as it was almost immediately back ordered. Even though I have multiple AP mounts now, I want something that I can take to a dark site easily and there is no ‘easy’ when it comes to an AP mount. They are big, heavy and complicated. So going to give the AM5N a try along with an ASI AIR for a mobile setup. For star parties I’ll still bring an AP mount, but only one and have the AM5N there for a second mount.
I think the AM5N is a great choice for that - hope you get it soon!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks Cuiv, The truth of the matter is that while the mount is important for AP, most any mounts can be used to take fabulous images. A friend of mine has ‘3’ of these AM5 mounts and uses them simultaneously. His images are as good as anyone’s.
I think the only negative I could see was the focus of your face was losing lock constantly. 🤣🤣🤣 Sorry couldn’t help myself! It’s really great to hear that the technology is improving and new generation versions are better. I’ve heard that meridian flip issue so many times on Cloudy Nights!
Sorry about that!
Thanks for the update Cuiv. I'm getting ever closer to ordering one of these. I've been waiting to see what Sky Watchers new SWG mounts are like, but here in the UK they won't even announce a release date. I'll give them another month and if no news it will definitely be the AM5N.
At least my sample of the AM5N is excellent - and I'm sure Luke will soon publish a review as well... let's see if SW gives us any updates!
If you’re looking for an easy and quickly removable solution to the sideways saddle problem for side by side configurations I’ve found at least one:
Get a secondary saddle of whatever size and style is your preference, and a short dovetail plate from ADM or someone reputable, and bolt them together back to back at 90 degrees to each another.
Instant 90 degree saddle when you need it.
I’ve got a photo but I guess attachments are not supported.
Oh right! I see what you mean! Good idea!
Thanks Cuiv. I still worry about the 3 amps. Running dew heaters alone can use up a significant portion of that
Agree - I wouldn't use dew heaters on top of that...
I'm sold! Glad they improved on it with version 2 (N). Hopefully with your testing with the Frankenscope, version 3 will have an improved saddle.
It's honestly quite good - since I now have multiple mounts though I ended up taking the Frankenscope apart (I needed to remove one of the primary mirrors to unfasten a little bit the clips but needed to remove the scope from the setup to be able to achieve this), and now the AM5N has a simple CarbonStar on top of it!
Apart from the mass the torque is important as well. Do you have any idea about the torque of the frankenscope? As a note, your scopes have a rather short focal length, I’m wondering how a SCT with 2000+mm FL (OAG) will perform. On the subject of power, running dew heaters seem out of the question with 3A, and those are not uncommon…
I'm not sure exactly how far from the axis of rotation the center of gravity of the scope is... An SCT would be lighter so it has that going for it, but I can't answer for sure! And I agree, dew heaters would be out of question...!
Very interesting! Rather than filing off those nubs, I wonder if there may perhaps be a good 3D printing solution that some enterprizing bystander could explore for a little fun and profit? Random thought. As always, thank you very much for the great work that you do!
hello Cuiv, thanks for the review. Have ever thought about similar compartive review among "low payload" armonic drive mount (AM3 vs.... ) ? it could be nice in particual for who wants to have an affordable, trustable, reliable, light setup to take photo outside.
So, for the dual scope, why didn't you simply mount the long dovetail to a second, short dovetail bar at 90 degrees instead of changing out the ZWO saddle?
It will be great to compare high-end equipment with mass-made equipment. For example, QHY scientific cameras, FLI, Chroma, AP, Tak, TEC, PlaneWave, Paramount versus ZWO, Orion, iOptron, Askars, Antlia, Optolong, etc.
By the way, what is On-Step? Is it developed by ZWO, or highjacked from open source?
Dew heaters for the main scope and guide scope added to what you described in your power demand might push the 3 amp limit.
Oh yes I would never attempt to add dew heaters directly from the saddle output, that would definitely be too much!
I have been waiting for this video Cuiv. Both of the AM5N videos provided a good review of the mount. The AM5N will likely be my next major purchase. I am waiting for a few more reviews on Cloudy Nights and RUclips. I am still unsure about the spring tensioning arrangement for the AZ base and the AZ adjustment. I would have liked to see an arrangement like Losmandy or Astro Physics uses to adjust the AZ on their mounts. The reduced PE is good but the RA periodic error plot that’s supplied with the mounts still looks random and not repeatable. I don’t think PHD2 Predictive PEC would work well with harmonic drive mounts. I would like to see testing with and without Predictive PEC in a future review. I still have concerns about the drive belt design. Can you please decrease the scale on the Y Axis so we can see more details on the PHD2 plots. It would also be nice if you can post PHD2 plots in the ‘Cloud’ so we can have a closer look.
Hi Cuiv. Great test! Thanks for letting me know about the cables. I don't think you missed anything. Its a great mount. I'd caution that an enthusiastic all clear on power is probably premature. I dont have this mount, and I thought I had addressed power "rigourously" on my AM5 and AM3 rigs (but STILL I missed a key point). I recently realised (by dint of a catastrophic failure) that my cigarette lighter power cables were only 3A (and one of them had cooked). I suspect this might have also fried my Celestron Powertank (I'll only know after testing when new cables are delivered). In any case I'm facing expensive consequences from a slightly 'happy go lucky' approach. Replacing a cable is one thing but you would not want this to happen in your mount. This was on my AM3 with only one dewstrap (likely off on that night) and a 2600MC duo @ -10C. But also my AM5 rig has a 13kg refractor slewing around (and two hungry dewstraps) on top of what your redcat had.
So I think it is STILL an issue if unwary consumers are led to 'expect' something that mostly appears to work (ignoring the smallprint invalidating their guarantee). They could subsequently be disappointed, out of pocket, or troubleshooting instead of imaging, and unable to make a claim. BTW when I swapped in my Jackery it indicated that the AM3 rig was drawing 33W (only 2.75A) while idling along, - but slewing or other peaks probably pushed it too hard.
Thanks for the tip, and user name checks out! Yeah I would never add dew heaters to the through the mount saddle, I really hope ZWO have a fuse or similar in place...!
@CuivTheLazyGeek I know you are likely tired doing mount reviews, but frankly you do a very good job.
I am wondering if you are going to look at the Sky-Watcher Wave 150i Strainwave Mount Head
I'm interested in either the 150i or AM5N they are both targeted at the same price range. I'd like to know your comparative review of these two, or at least a base review including guiding quality of the Wave 150i thanks
Going to go for either the older AM5 or the new AM5N, but I need to run a dual scope setup similar to your Frankenscope. Can the AM5N saddle do it? I can hardly wait for your answer!!! Is there a performance difference that you can see in your images between the two?
I get similar results with my NYX-101. I use my Polemaster to get a good polar alignment. Then do my calibration on M12 as it too is near the celestial equator. And depending on the seeing I typically get between 0.8 and 0.5 arc seconds on my guiding. Sometimes I will drop into 0.48 area but that is somewhat rare for me. But I'm perfectly happy with the results I'm getting. I think the NYX-101 has similar type 17 motors. Very informative video. I'm going to recommend the AM5 to my nephew who is interested in getting into the hobby. ;0)
All those new SWG mounts are really amazing - I don't see myself buying any traditional GEM now...
Those nubs are crazy... the original AM5 saddle doesn't have that. I've rotated the plate 90˚ and done dual scope setup with the AM5 no problem. Maybe it's because of the new electronics they decided to do that.
do we know what ZWO changed in the AM5N to reduce the PEC from +/- 20 to 10 arcsecs?
One can only assume higher quality SWG drives, but it's only an assumption...
They reduced the period. It's all about marketing. They did the same thing with the 2nd production run of the original AM5.
It seems to be a nice mount! As with everything, time will tell... I don't expect any real problems though. I won't upgrade yet. For the saddle problem zwo can easily spec just 1 more receiving hole for the little alignment nubs so it can be used 90 degrees rotation. (Or 2 holes to allow freedom to go either way.) No programming change needed to the mount, just a small change in the cnc master file. Or they can do that in the mount software and not make the modified hole. Myself, being in the trades for most of my life, would opt for the physical extra hole as being the most elegant and simple change. It must be a precise as the rest since it is an alignment hole and not just clearance which is easy because outlet use the already mounted tool in the cnc machine.
Yep, fully agree there, makes sense to have those additional holes instead!
About power, the problem of certain specks is that they should give watts +voltage…
Allowing for easy battery power bank calculations…
interesting you experience of P.A ... I find the alt/az adjustment to be terrible with a huge amount of backlash particularly Alt!
Oh wow, weird! I mean backlash in Alt is fine for me as long as the locks don't move the alignment - but if you want almost zero backlash in alt, the EM31Pro is the way to go
Haha sounds like zwo has knocked it out of the park with this mount. Still a shame that they are so apple like. But i think till i grow out of the "zwo sphere" but it seems to work well for someone a bit more... simple minded like myself. Haha. Great review cuiv. Always so excited to see your new videos
Yep, exactly - they definitely make good stuff, but the closed ecosystem bit (that is built on the top of open source software!) does rub me the wrong way!
In the light of these great results, I wonder if an AM3N is in the wings.
I'm not sure! My guess is that the AM5N incorporated some enhancements put in the AM3, but time will tell!
I'm looking at a full 'big' rig and the new sk'ywatcher strainwaves are now released. Been trying to save for an AM5 .....But I'm thinking I'll wait until you, Luke, and Nico get to review the new toys!!
Not sure I'll get to review the SW mounts - I've never managed to get in contact with them!
Cuiv, I believe you can set a custom home position using the app for the mount.
I'll have to check, thanks for the tip Mike!
Great review!
Sorry if I missed it in a previous video but curious what make/model of tripod you are using with the Frankenscope setup? (shown @ 1:40).
Looks like the AM5/AM5N bolts directly to it without any adapters.
Thanks Cuiv!
It's this one, unfortunately not available outside of Japan: ruclips.net/video/2uuzA-NRtV4/видео.html
Great review sir, thank you.
Thank you!
are you powering your cameras via the power from the mount, or separately?
Hello, I would like to ask for your advice on how to choose between the EM31 Pro and the AM5N?
May I ask you which type of tripod did you use in your interesting test?
Given your experiences with multiple types of telescopes, and now you have had an opportunity to test this mount, would you recommend this mount for a C8 SCT with an OAG and ASI174mm mini guide camera, with focal lengths from 1400 to 2032mm? If you only had a SCT would you take a chance and purchase this mount? I've got less than a year's experience in this hobby. Thank you.
Difficult to say since I haven't tested directly with such a scope, but it seems it would work well - although the old AM5 specified something like "up to 900mm focal length". Maybe you need to wait for someone like Lukomatico to release his own review video, he does have SCTs to test with I believe!
If I remember correctly, you can set a new home position in the App. Wouldn't that be an option for your use case?
I'll have to check, thanks for the tip!
The Mele Quieter 4C requires a power supply of at least 24 watts. At 12v, that’s up to 2 amps (amps = watts / volts) just for the PC. I would definitely reconcider your power supply/distribution situation.
My Quieter 4C is drawing nowhere near 24 watts with SharpCap, PHD2, and Stellarium controlling the mount via ASCOM device hub/ USB serial. I am typically seeing around 8-10 watts. I am using the standard power settings in the BIOS. I have been using the AM5N mount saddle power with my Mele, EAF, 533MC Pro, 585MC for guiding, and two dew heaters. I am also using a USB-C monitor powered from the Mele. At least with my setup, I can watch power consumption with my Bluetti battery, and I have seen a max of around 23 watts draw, including mount power, even when slewing.
Well, you can’t argue with direct measurements. Sounds like 3 amps will work just fine.
Oh wow, including the dew heaters??? I really hope the AM5N has an internal fuse though, I don't think I'd dare use dew heaters via that output port on the saddle!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek , at least with my setup, the total draw from the port is well under 3 amps, including the dew heaters.
I’m looking to buy a mount. Would you recommend a used AM5 and save $$$ or buy a new AM5n?
Cuiv are you not going to test the Touptek Astrostation ?
Hey Cuiv, thanks for the review. I just sold a EQ6R-Pro and im in the market for a new mount for the edgehd8. AM5N seems like a good option. Can you reccommend a reasonable (price and stability) tripod? I do not like the stock zwo one, it seems clunky, but i never had it on hand. Thanks!
Great summary and review, Cuiv! By the way, what tripod are you using there for the new AM5N?
Thanks so much Tom! You can check it out here: ruclips.net/video/2uuzA-NRtV4/видео.html . Unfortunately it can't be bought abroad...
the best thing would be to have the mount plate with 2 extra holes at 90 degrees angle to have it fit perfectly and snugly. That could be another update in design for ZWO, not a hard one to accomplish
Yep, agreed!
Nice work
Does it include a "Cloud dispersal" app, here in the North East of England we could do with it!...
If you find the app, send it to the noth west, cheers.
And North Wales!
@@KevinRudd-w8sand Australia
I'm told they're working on it, maybe a firmware update? :p
One question about the saddle port I haven't seen an answer to - is the USB-C port only a device port for controlling the mount from a host riding the telescope, or can you use it as a hub port directly to the camera, with the host connected to the front USB-B port? Obviously in the latter case you wouldn't have USB3 between the host and camera but that's ok if you're not taking video.
No, it's unfortunately only for control of the mount, it can't be used as a USB hub
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Well, thanks for clarifying anyway
So I can use the AM5N to power my AsiAir Mini which is supplying power to my 533mc pro, eaf, and 120mm mini?
That would be the main reason for me to upgrade to this from the former version, as I *really* want a cable snag-free setup.
According to this video, I should be able to. But I see people also say you can’t, or rather, shouldn’t do that.
Yeah in my tests it seems to be fine, and at least one other has tried with scope dew heaters as well and seen it worked fine (I wouldn't dare). My own experience says yes (I have also tested with my CarbonStar and other cameras on top, power from the mount) - but others than me are more knowledgeable... That's all I can say for sure! That said the AsiAir Mini, 533MC and 120MM+EAF should be eating less than 3A at all times I would assume, so I do think it's fine!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good enough for me! Thanks for the reply and I guess I’ll be looking forwards to getting my AM5N once it’s out of backorder!
Great review! Thank you. Curious to know if the performance is the same with the ASIAIR Plus/Mini?! I am very happy with my AM3, which seems to be very similar to the AM5N. What are your guiding settings in EKOS?
I was using PHD2 but I would assume the performance is the same in the ASIAIR, since it also uses a lightweight version of PHD2!
ZWO cold make a 45 degree adaptor for it? and you wood still keep the power ports.
Yep! Or maybe there's another workaround I'm not aware of!
This could just be me but, I think zwo will adjust the mount saddle so you can spin it 90deg. I'm guessing it may have been something that was over looked then they designed this version, lets face it all they need to do is add another two small holes
We'll see! It's not very complex indeed!
Where do you get this guiding log. I have guiding logs but it’s only text file with a whole lot of numbers. I want it to be like yours showing me a graph and total guiding accuracy.
Which tripod do you use ? :)
Is it possible to use without a computer?
Maybe they offer different plates for different purposes in the future - I hope. 🙂
The saddle issue can be resolved if ZWO just drilled a third hole under the saddle, so that the "bumps" will still have two holes to sit in when it is turned for an array setup.👍
Send ZWO an email and tell them that I said to just do it. 😁
Isn’t SW 150i better in payload? Still deciding between these two.
It seems they advertize the same payload without CW, but more (25kg) with CW! And it seems to have better through the mount cabling - but I haven't tested it yet, can't say for sure!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek thank you. Will wait for review before pulling the trigger on any of these two
Is it true, that there is no bubble level on the mounthead of the AM5N? How do you level it?
Amazon sells a pack of ten bubble levels for $5. I used double sided adhesive tape to mount them in the same location as the AM5
Could tell me if the old AM5 saddle had the same issue? It didnt have cables but was it possible to rotate ir 90o? Or the same issue was present?
I'm not sure sorry!
Hello. Do You have the link of your eaf adaptor tô redcat51? I have had some issues with my 3D printed model.
Yes! www.etsy.com/shop/SmartComponents
You are probably drawing more than 3 amps. So probably power rating is conservative or the cables are getting pretty hot internally
Somebody is pacing impatiently outside Cuiv's room. Anyway, my question is: should I ditch my AM5 mount, and get AM5N instead ? Currently, I am using it as Alt-Az for EAA.
No
@@l.m2517 mind if i ask what was wrong with am5 v1 ?
@@l.m2517 i think zwo upped the payload on original am5 by magic, er i mean software er might be worth checking. The powered usb saddle makes envious but then im envious of the original am5
No, if the AM5 works for you there is no need to switch! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Indeed, my largest gripe with the AM5 mount is that they use simplified algorithm for multi-star alignment. Apparently, they do polynomial inerpolation of the stars positions, instead of aligning their internal coordinates with the real coordinates. The most vocal person about it is the user "w7ay" on the zwoastro forum. I had a Celestron AZ mount which was very precise. AM5N is likely to be the same as AM5. I better look into the latest Celestron mounts or maybe SkyWatcher wave 100i or 150i.
So, is the new AM5N guiding better than the old AM5?
It does seem to be a little better, though how much better I'm not sure!
Yes please
Cuiv, how is the noise of the mount while slewing?
Same as the AM5 as far as I can tell, definitely some noise but not horrible
I like the AM3, using it with the Carbonstar and getting < .5" guiding. Easy mode compared to my older mount! Since I already purchased the AM3 my bet is the AM3N isn't too far away.
Probably true. ZWO has to stop doing this: I can’t afford it! I sold my AM5 for the AM3 and couldn’t be happier (especially my back)!
I get the feeling the AM5N was following the AM3 improvements compared to the AM5, so not sure if that's so close! But time will tell for sure!
Frankenscope? This is Godzilla, paired with King Kong! 😂
* * * I have first light, with my "old" AM5, wow i'm guiding 0.45-0.65 arcseconds with NINA (YOU are such an influencer!), with 10kg++ of quattro 200/800, and I know that there is a beta firmware HDR for IMX585.
But with only some hours of guiding, I will wait for a full night for a real test with multiple target.
Happy to see you're having success with your "old" AM5! I've had multiple nights with the AM5N since and it's been just as reliable!
I have not seen any SW mounts tested with counterweights, it is like a conspiracy :) So, if you perfectly balance the mount, can you guide even better?
I don't even have the counterweight shaft :p Based on the results with the RedCat, I don't think it would guide much better... SWG seem to not care!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Well, RedCat did better than the FrankenScope, naturally perfectly balanced system should do even better (into 0.3" area?). I hope you try the counterweights one day. Thanks.
I do not know what this costs - but my Pegasus NYX101 is amazing. Based on this review, it seems like it is still better than this one.
Neat.
First one :) greeting from Athens/Greece
Well done! Cheers!