That Everest himself thought that mountains should keep their original names, but ended up being the namesake of the renamed mountain that is LEAST likely to have its native name restored is the highest peak of irony.
Actually not especially, it’s just rude , period ! The fact that Everest opposed the practice of renaming mountains is just an anecdote, the important problem it’s still that them British people came and renamed the mountain like it was theirs or something ! Colonial Mentality ! Also renaming a mountain after someone who supported the keeping of the mountains native names , is like a huge fuck you to his legacy and the very idea of keeping the mountains native names unchanged !
I like how one of the names of a mountain in my home town of Bodø in Norway is called keiservarden after the German Kaiser Wilhelm II simply because he visited and "climbed" the mountain (not really a difficult hike)
Felipe Milton Santos he did not. France, Germany, Austria Hungary, Russia and Great Britain had all interest to start world war one. The war was started because of Austria Hungary and their invasion of Serbia, to say that Germany started world war one is an unreflective perspective of history.
Of course entity where something lies decides on official name, this is obvious. Though name(s) in use don't have to correspond with official names(nobody's using Federal Republic of Germany when they talk about Germany), so if natives want to use their word and rest of the world theirs, this is seriously a non-issue. I don't have a strong opinion either way however, but I think words are just words, if most people call bread "bread" then it's "bread", feel free to call it however you want for your own needs. Also imagine if citizens of Deutschland were mad at the rest of the for using exonyms. And even more, if for some reason people are obsessing to return something to first/native name I expect them to push for return of "kaiser-wilhelm peak", because of course they aren't picky hypocrites right
James L But Deutschland literally means people’s land, most native names generally refer to themselves as the humans, the talking ones, those that have breath, and the people. While foreigners are because not that, like not human, without breath, and not the people.
@@freddekl1102 There's a difference between "official diplomatic nomenclature" and what the people actually call it. Like, République Française versus just plain ol' France. Or when Czechia asked everyone to use Czechia as a colloquial name rather than Czech Replublic/Česká Republika. Exonyms are bad when endomyns exist and predate the exonym. K2 is fine because there was no endonym (because it's not visible from even the nearest villages and settlements in China and Pakistan).
@James L Technically the Chinese started calling Japan that. Since it's to the east of them and it's "day origin" or more freely "where the sun rises". A nifty name by Chinese explorers. Maybe we should ask some of the last remaining natives on the island of Hokkaido how we should call Japan...
This is the first time I heard the native name of mount Everest, but the Tibet name of it sounds exactly how I've known the mountain in my native language of Cantonese, you learn something new everyday I guessed
Well it would make sense, the Han Chinese have historically been in contact with the Tibetans for centuries. Thus the name of the tallest peak (which definitely would be important) would have been passed over from them.
Mandarin as well. "Zhu mu la ma feng" sounds very similar to the Tibetan name of Mount Everest. It's interesting how Chinese had preserved some of the native names of certain countries and places. For instance, Greece is officially "The Hellenic Republic" in Greek. In Mandarin, "Xi La", sounds very similar to hellas, the Greek name for Greece.
Puncak Jaya isn't event the true "native" name. It's named "Nemangkawi" in Papua, then changed to "Carstensz Pyramid" by the Dutch. In 1960s, the mountain is named "Puncak Soekarno" (after the first president) for a short time. After he was ousted, it's renamed "Puncak Jaya" to this day.
Huh, I didn't know mt. Everest was named after a person. I always figured it was ever-rest, as in eternal rest which I thought was a very metal name for a mountain. Sort of a poetic way of calling it mt. Death.
It would make sense when the English/western name is made known first. I had the same idea myself (eternal rest or like a throne, glorious), now I know it has a more localized name.
as a Kid with Mount Saint Helens famously going splodey, I assumed all Mountains were partly Volcanic... and that Everest was 'Everrest' as in they had no evidence of it going off for so long and it was "Ever at Rest'... once I learned of Plate Tectonics, and India Colliding with Asia to form it I never stopped to rethink my childhood theory
Isn't the most senseful thing to keep the "native" name in each language? It's never going to work having the same proper names for places etc in every language since they are all so different. Why would 8 different tribes in one area have to use one name?
I think it is as a matter of respect to the people living and revering the mountain in that area for centuries and their language/culture... After all people in the English speaking world don't really call Mont Blanc "White Mountain" so why the need to translate / rename the original names when it comes to other languages? Partly it stems from the (mis)perception of certain land, back from the age of exploration as 'Terra Nulius' or discovery doctrine, regarding many places as 'nobody's land' although people have lived in the area for tens of thousands of years.
Aditya C Yes of course, I was not referring to the colonial names but rather to the idea of having all surrounding tribes having a meeting to choose one name
@8:04, also an American hero and historical figure. His statue got vandalized in the DC unrest. He was a soldier and general in both Poland and the USA, an abolitionist who dedicated his estate to the education of slaves. Born into a noble family, but had been forced to and abandoned it due to circumstances. Learned English, contributed to the what little cavalry the American colonial rebels had.
It was rather the other Polish volunteer that helped establish the American cavalry - Kazimierz (better known as Casimir) Pułaski. Kościuszko was first and foremost a military engineer, building fortifications for example in West Point, although he also directly commanded troops in battle. He is also being considered a national hero by some Lithuanians and Belarusians.
@@Artur_M. One thing that the Union benefitted from was revolutionaries from the failed 1848 uprisings running to the USA, and many joined up with the Union Army, and continued their freedom fighting mission, just in a different place and context, but same general principle.
Wow, this is amazing, as I was just an hour ago having a discussion with some in a hiking group on FB which mountains in New Hampshire have native names vs. were named after some white guy. How timely!! Also, I think I suggested the seven summits awhile back (or maybe I just wanted to and never did?), but that's okay, I don't need the credit, I'm just so pleased you finally did the video. :-)
Given his video about mountains and their native names, you'd think he'd put at least a little effort into how these names are originally pronounced. Oh the irony! Haha
7:23 Wrong section. Puncak Jaya is not a native name. It's an Indonesian word imposed against the local's name for the mountain. In fact, the name is actually very political.
I thought he did mention that Puncak Jaya does have native name pre-Carstenz (although he didn't mention which name). I believe he is referring to Nemang kawi. Among other mountains known to have native names in the area such as Ngga-Pulu, Ngga Pilimsit, and Etiakup
There's this Belgian comic book series of Suske & Wiske/ Bob & Bobette where one of their books is called "Sagarmatha", which is about the Mt. Everest and its folklore. I always thought Sagarmatha to be a way mightier name than Everest!
@@abradolflincler726 "With the mountain lacking a local name, the name Mount Godwin-Austen was suggested, in honor of Henry Godwin-Austen, an early explorer of the area. While the name was rejected by the Royal Geographical Society,[14] it was used on several maps and continues to be used occasionally.[18][19] The surveyor's mark, K2, therefore continues to be the name by which the mountain is commonly known. It is now also used in the Balti language, rendered as Kechu or Ketu[17][20]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2#Name
As an Aussie I'll say that the name 'Uluru' is used far more in the circles I move in than Ayer's Rock is. Hearing the name it was given in the 19th Century sort of feels odd. I know for myself I've gotten used to referring to it by its name in the Aboriginal language of that area (there are more than 200 Aboriginal languages and dialects in Australia).
Where do you live? Growing up in Sydney in the 1990's, everyone called it Ayers Rock. Leyland Brothers World used the same name for its replica too. Most of us in school didn't even recognise the native word. That's changed now with the media forcing it on everybody but most English speaking Australians still call it Ayers Rock.
I am Polish and I didn't expect that an Australian mountain had a Polish name but as expected Name Explain and English-Speakers don't know how to pronounce Polish words. It isn't not "Kosciuszko" but "Kościuszko" as that was the correct spelling of the person the mountain was named after Tadeusz Kościuszko. A) "sz" is two letters that make 1 sound corresponding to the "sh" sound. B) All vowels have 1 distinct sound in Polish. It is a misconception that English has only 5 vowels. A vowel is a sound and English has too many vowels but English does have 5 letters that represent vowels. Basics of Polish vowels A = "ah", O = "oh", I = "ee", U = "oo" etc. C) The letter C represents the "ts" sound in Polish like the majority of Slavic languages. D) The Polish letter ś has a sound of "shi". So "Kościuszko" is meant to be pronounced "kohshi-tsoo-shkoh" no matter what the English-Speaking Australians pronounce it. Also Tadeusz is pronounced "Tah-de-oosh" if you needed to know.
I understand if you're angry, but polish isn't easy to pronounce and he's only trying to educate and entertain within his skill, he might not know how to pronounce it exactly right but he gave the information and tried his best, should he apologize after every word to the people if he pronounced it wrong
@@loganharpole137 I'm at least happy that a Polish name was given to an important landmark outside of Poland & former lands controlled by Poland (which are just Kaliningrad (Which was called Królewiec by the Poles before the Prussians/Germans took it) Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine & Russia (even Poland took Moscow when we where in a Commonwealth with Lithuania)).
I can confirm that english speakers dont know how to pronounce it. Kosciusko was a hero in American Revolution so his name can be found in various places here in America, and yep its often pronounced "koz-ee-os-ko" in "Kosh-oo-shko". Spelling wasnt very standardized back then either, so people just pronounced the names in newspapers the best they could and never got corrected.
for example, Imarivolanitra in Madagascar is known as Pic Boby because the French mountaineers said "we'll name it after the first person who's up first" and the dog was up first.
Fun Fact : Instead of Everest pronouncing as Everest, we should pronounce it as Eve-Rest (as in Evening). George Everest after whom it was given the name was always quick to point out that his surname was pronounced wrong
Current names' pronunciation not being butchered would be a good start. 😁 On a more serious note, it's a case by case situation. How do you pick which country's name for Everest to use? Etc.
I actually had no idea that Denali was officially called Mt. McKinley. I always knew it as Denali and didn't know it had another name until it was "renamed."
Here in Santiago, Chile, there's a hill that was named "Santa Lucía" by Spanish conquistador Pedro de Valdivia, but the native Mapuche people had already given it the name "Huelen", and many people are fighting for its original name to be back, specially now after the recent unrest.
No tenía idea que el cerro Santa Lucía se llamaba originalmente Huelen, TIL 😅, igual dudo que la gente lo llame de otra forma, ya esta arraigado el otro nombre 🤔
Mount Rainier's native name is Tahoma/Tacoma. It was also temporarily renamed "Mount Seattle Seahawks" for four days because of the Super Bowl, I wish I was making that up.
Two years ago a delegation of the Aboriginal Ngarigo people from Australia was invited to Cracow to take part in the celebrations of the bicentary of Kościuszko's death to discuss this issue and learn about Kościuszko. From what I've gathered they were rather pleased with this visit. Anyway, I think that both names having an equal official status is a good solution (at least in this case).
So an important lake in my region was renamed (from Lake Calhoun to Bde Maka Ska) and I personally whole heartedly agree with the change. It’s a show of respect for the people who on es inhabited or have always inhabited the area around a natural landmark and a way to start removing racist, colonial or bigot stains from our societies. Thanks for making this video, it’s an important aspect to highlight
Honestly, sometimes I'm not sure what to call them in order to be respectful, but I know I must do what's right ...sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti.
This is a great video, but I can't help but notice a bit of Anglo/Western-centrism, at least in the section about Mount Everest. That name is so called in the west, but I'm pretty certain that the countries that contain it all recognize one form or another of its non-European name as the official name. So this discrepancy begs the question: why are we considering the official English name over the official Chinese/Tibetan/Nepalese names to be the *actual* official name for the video? In my opinion, this mountain should fall under the category of mountains that always had their original names, because these names are and have always been recognized by the countries that contain it. (This critique could apply to other mountains on the list, but I don't know much about these other ones.) Still, very informative video!
If I remembered my quechuan classes, doens't sound like a quechua word. G is not use in that area unless is a loanword from spanish. Maybe you mean "kawak" or "qawa"
I think names definitely can be changed, and even if it’s difficult for older people to remember the new (old) names it will eventually become normal. I’m relatively young (20), so when Uluru came up I really had to think to remember that it was also called Ayers Rock. Same thing with Denali. I only know it was called McKinley as a piece of trivia rather than an alternative name.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Ararat mountain. We still don't know exactly if Ararat is a given name (from the bible) or a native name from armenians. But armenian people call it "Ararat Massis" or simply "Massis" -which is also a given first name for boys-. So we still don't really know. Now it's in Turkey, and they call is Agri Dagi, Agri comes from Ararat and Dagi meaning Mountain. Interesting fact, the region south of this mountain, the autonomous region of Nakhitchevan means "the place of the descent" in armenian, directly reffering to the descent of Noah from Ararat Mountains, with family and the animals after the great flood.
The street I live on use to be called "spot". It's been renamed for some local historic figure for over a decade now, but people still use the name spot quite often.
Due to K2's unforgiving terrain, I propose that it be named "Fukyu." Not only would it make sense, but it would look exotic enough for the "decolonization" crowd
Nepal and Tibet were closed to westerners when the survey was completed so the surveyors had no native name for it. It was originally just Peak XV. It would have been interesting if George Everest had got his way and the naming was deferred until after a native name was found. Would it have been received its Tibetan or Nepali name or simply remained Peak XV as happened to K2.
@@TheCsel different languages can refer to mountains differently. While we should let the natives name their mountains for themselves, there's no point in ditching the "given" name.
4 года назад
In Venezuela we've got the "Waraira Repano" (The wave that came from afar) which is the mountain that defends Caracas from the Tropical tempest of the Caribean that the spaniards renamed: "El Ávila". Also, we've got the "Churum Meru" (Don't know what it means) which is the Tepuy that has the tallest fall of water in the world and that in the 20th century they baptized "Salto Angel" because Jimmy Angel, a gringo bandit, discover it while smugling
1. New Zealand has a good record of replacing western names with Maori ones. 2. Fun fact: Mt Kosciuszko only had the "z" added into its name about 20 years ago, to conform to the Polish spelling. (I noticed YT's autocorrect still doesn't have the "z".) 3. Far from being challenging to summit, there's a road onto the actual summit of Mt Kosciuszko which used to be open to the public many years ago. I have a photo of my father an I standing beside our car and the trig station on the top.
As an Aussie I meet many migrants who have names that the average Aussie finds difficult to pronounce/spell/remember. Due to this, they take on a more Anglicised name that's either similar to their actual name or something that they just like the sound of. I see the name of mountains as the same. Use the native name if you don't find it too difficult to say/spell/remember but, if you struggle with it, you should be able to call it what ever it was renamed as; without it being seen as rude. History is history.
The problem with Mt Kosciuszko is that the main proposed Aboriginal name is a bit controversial. Ngarigu is a nearly extinct language and the speakers of it have been arguing over whether Kunama Namadgi is, in fact, an authentic traditional name. Kunama can also be interpreted to mean faeces, and some of the Ngarigo want to consult more Indigenous groups of the area.
I admit, I would rate one name over the other soley based on their coolness sound. The second one is hard to decide between the death and other name based on my naming conventions.
Of course this was more focused on the tallest peaks, but Mount Rushmore is definitely up there when it comes to controversy. Not only was it renamed in honour of an American businessman, it got 4 US president faces carved into it.
The second tallest peak in Brazil is called "Pico da Bandeira" ("Peak of the Flag") and for most of history was thought as the highest mountain in Brazil, located in the triple border among Brazil's three most populous states. I have no idea if it was ever known by a native name.
There is even a c9ntroversy about a British mountain, of very modest height [only 3560ft] as to whether it should be called by its English name Snowdon or the Welsh Yr Wyddfa and the range it is in as Snowdonia or Eryri. It is in Wales, but there is also a mountain in England [near Horton in Ribblesdale, Yorkshire o be exact] which is called by the Welsh Pen-y-Ghent. As far I am aware there is no call to have this name translated.
I say do what the world has always done, and realize that exonyms and endonyms will always be used, and don't try to legalese your way into sweeping either under the rug.
So how would you choose which native people get to "officially" name The Artist Formerly Known As Everest? I'm not saying that is in and of itself an argument to keep Everest, but I wonder how you avoid a similar problem. Especially if the names being considered come from rival peoples.
The Nine Summits Denali . Tall/ Big Mount Blanc . White Mountain Elbrus . Like a 1,000 mountains Everest . George Everest Puncakjaya . Puncak Victorious Aconcagua . Summit other admired Kilimanjaro . Mountain of Greetings Vinson . Carl Vinson Kosciusko . Snow Mountain
Exonyms, when endonyms already exist, are bad. For example, K2 is fine because there were no endonyms due to the fact that it is not even visible from any nearby villages or settlements.
Not necessarily. Smaller summits on the sides of larger mountains may not be named by natives. For example, in Arizona the peak of the Pinaleño Mountains is known as Mount Graham but due to the fairly rounded ridgeline and overall small area of the range, the entire range is usually referred to as Mount Graham. To my knowledge, indigenous peoples in the area such as the Apache named the mountain in a similar way. So small, indistinct peaks in the range such as Heliograph Peak (which is basically just a rocky outcropping that the US army put a heliograph station on in the late 19th century) may never have been named by the indigenous people.
@@qwryzu K2 (the second highest mountain on Earth) doesn't have an endonym because it's also not visible from even the nearest inhabited village/settlement.
I see this similarly to how countries and cities are named. Sure, most places use the names that the people who lived there came up with, but even within Europe we have huge examples of "incorrect" names in other languages. The big examples are Germany vs Deuschland and even The Netherlands vs Holland to some degree. I do feel the English names should be related to their native names, but weirdness happens and it doesn't necessarily need to be changed if the peoples in question aren't reminded of western atrocities by the names. It's complex!
Cities and towns in Greece had their names changed from Turkish/Slavic/Albanian to Greek. Usually an 'ancient' sounding name was chosen. This happened to establish the myth of ethnic continuity with antiquity and I suspect has happened throughout the Balkans. It's a revisionist practice that completely disregards centuries of history to establish a connection with a 'cool' historic period, ignoring all that has happened before and after.
I think that mountains should retain their native names and on all official documents those native names be used. However, I don't have a problem with mountains having a "nickname" which foreigners can use. It just wouldn't be the official name. Kind of like how people have a legal name, but people are called by nicknames, too. Also, "Mother of the World" is the coolest name for a mountain ever!
Australia's Mount Kościuszko is the greatest naming prank Polish people have ever pulled off and now everyone has to deal with it. It's a shame they didn't go for ''Mount Brzęczyszczykiewicz''
I believe keeping the well-known name is important because language is about having shared knowledge and stripping that is not only potentially controversial in itself but also just impractical. But I believe making historical or alternative names of the sites readily available and advertised is only a good thing too. I also don’t see the problem to be honest, as I highly doubt any of the native population really use the foreign names so does it really matter? Different groups of people have different names for everything (that’s what language is) so I don’t really see any harm
@@wwoods66 it's not really that either; chinese and tibetan are part of the same language family and they've called the mountain Zhumalangma for centuries.
Apparently Mt Wilhelm in Papua New Guinea is also considered one of the '7 summits' given that Puncak Jaya is in Indonesia, which, as we all know, is part of Asia..
Thinks these 9 peaks should have had a tenth added. The 2nd highest mountain k2. And possibly an 11th, the biggest mountain (from base) the hawaiian shield volcano (muana loa/kea).
What's stopping these countries from calling their mountains whatever they like? lots of countries are called different names in different languages (Germany, Japan, Lithuania) I would figure the same convention would apply.
Puncak doesn't came from the surrounding region, It's an Indonesian word mean 'summit'. So the name Puncak Jaya would be meant "Victorious Summit" in Indonesian. The Papua region got its places' names changed during the sixties due to the Papua integration to Indonesia (whether or not the integration is lawful is up for debate and I don't want to open a pandora box). So the Indonesian government changed a few names like Papua -> Irian Jaya (Victorious Irian -> Irian is a acronym of 'Ikut Republik Indonesia Anti Nederland' which means "Join Republic of Indonesia and Anti-Dutch). The capital of West Papua at that time, Hollandia, was also renamed as Sukarnapura (Sukarno's Town) and then again renamed after the fall of Sukarno, to Jayapura (Victorious Town). Pura = Town/City, like the name Singapore -> Singapura -> Lion's City.
I am going to switch the conversation to rivers, I think most of the rivers in Britain have names which predate the Saxon invasion. Most mountains in Wales and some in England have Welsh names, but most people know Snowdon rather than yr Wyddfa.
Many times the English or American imperialists were successful BECAUSE they were an outsider, and were seen as a neutral party compared to local rivals. Additionally in many places in south Asia, Africa, Americas, there are many languages spoken, so it was more convenient to resort to the lingua franca, which was often english or french. Likewise in today's world, English is cemented as an international language of trade and culture, so it benefits locals and natives to use the well known english names. That said I think there should be an effort to use the native names alongside the english names, especially locally. It isn't that confusing for something to have multiple names, and tourists don't usually visit them for a t-shirt souvenir, they want to learn about the location, so should be open to learning about the native names and cultures once they get there.
Do you think we should be using the native names of mountains more often?
ya
Yes
I think we should use local/indiginous/native names for everything! I've always really wanted a map that had every countries local name on it.
Yes
I think we should use native names as much as possible, but people from the country at least should use the original names.
TIL Everest is named for a guy that didn't want mountains to be named for foreigners...the irony is amazing
We could rename it "Mount Irony"
That Everest himself thought that mountains should keep their original names, but ended up being the namesake of the renamed mountain that is LEAST likely to have its native name restored is the highest peak of irony.
peak of comedy.
Highest peak.
and the highest peak of the world
I think all mountains should be named after NameExplain patrons. That seems fair.
Not even a patron yet I still feel I have to agree.
Martians are very upset about humans having to name their mountains.
I hate it when humans call X’vhibżâe “Olympus Mons”
''...slowly and surely they drew their plans against us.''
This is a high quality comment, more like this pls.
Žüchałzhūæńēòúga Mountain
Angry?Deal with it
One thing’s for sure, Mountain Mama is the best
Take me home, country roads!
All my memories
To the place
Where I belong 🎵
West Virginia
It's really rude to name Sagarmāthā / Chomolungma after Everest, sepcialy since he didn't want it that way.
Actually not especially, it’s just rude , period ! The fact that Everest opposed the practice of renaming mountains is just an anecdote, the important problem it’s still that them British people came and renamed the mountain like it was theirs or something ! Colonial Mentality ! Also renaming a mountain after someone who supported the keeping of the mountains native names , is like a huge fuck you to his legacy and the very idea of keeping the mountains native names unchanged !
I think it's fine
@@SakiBlablabla them saying “especially” was saying that it is quite rude.
I like how one of the names of a mountain in my home town of Bodø in Norway is called keiservarden after the German Kaiser Wilhelm II simply because he visited and "climbed" the mountain (not really a difficult hike)
It sounds like they tried to insult him.
Oh look how great you are.
We should name it after your oh so great skill
I mean you have to consider that Wilhelm II was disabled. So every hike up a mountain is kind of an achievement.
Isn't he one of the guys that pushed the world into world war one? Maybe they should change the name idk
Felipe Milton Santos he did not. France, Germany, Austria Hungary, Russia and Great Britain had all interest to start world war one. The war was started because of Austria Hungary and their invasion of Serbia, to say that Germany started world war one is an unreflective perspective of history.
@@FelipeSantos-xq4tc nah, to say he was solely responsible for ww1 is inaccurate.
It should be up to the people who live there to decide what the mountain is officially called
Of course entity where something lies decides on official name, this is obvious.
Though name(s) in use don't have to correspond with official names(nobody's using Federal Republic of Germany when they talk about Germany), so if natives want to use their word and rest of the world theirs, this is seriously a non-issue.
I don't have a strong opinion either way however, but I think words are just words, if most people call bread "bread" then it's "bread", feel free to call it however you want for your own needs.
Also imagine if citizens of Deutschland were mad at the rest of the for using exonyms.
And even more, if for some reason people are obsessing to return something to first/native name I expect them to push for return of "kaiser-wilhelm peak", because of course they aren't picky hypocrites right
James L But Deutschland literally means people’s land, most native names generally refer to themselves as the humans, the talking ones, those that have breath, and the people. While foreigners are because not that, like not human, without breath, and not the people.
@@freddekl1102 There's a difference between "official diplomatic nomenclature" and what the people actually call it. Like, République Française versus just plain ol' France. Or when Czechia asked everyone to use Czechia as a colloquial name rather than Czech Replublic/Česká Republika.
Exonyms are bad when endomyns exist and predate the exonym. K2 is fine because there was no endonym (because it's not visible from even the nearest villages and settlements in China and Pakistan).
@James L Technically the Chinese started calling Japan that. Since it's to the east of them and it's "day origin" or more freely "where the sun rises". A nifty name by Chinese explorers. Maybe we should ask some of the last remaining natives on the island of Hokkaido how we should call Japan...
But which people? Mountains are big. As NE said, Denali had 6 competing names until Denali won out.
This is the first time I heard the native name of mount Everest, but the Tibet name of it sounds exactly how I've known the mountain in my native language of Cantonese, you learn something new everyday I guessed
Well it would make sense, the Han Chinese have historically been in contact with the Tibetans for centuries. Thus the name of the tallest peak (which definitely would be important) would have been passed over from them.
Mandarin as well. "Zhu mu la ma feng" sounds very similar to the Tibetan name of Mount Everest. It's interesting how Chinese had preserved some of the native names of certain countries and places. For instance, Greece is officially "The Hellenic Republic" in Greek. In Mandarin, "Xi La", sounds very similar to hellas, the Greek name for Greece.
Puncak Jaya isn't event the true "native" name. It's named "Nemangkawi" in Papua, then changed to "Carstensz Pyramid" by the Dutch.
In 1960s, the mountain is named "Puncak Soekarno" (after the first president) for a short time. After he was ousted, it's renamed "Puncak Jaya" to this day.
I love how he says tadeusz kościuszko.
Idk why
"Kuzicusko" 😂
Most Australians (i) pronounce it kozzee-oss'-ko, and (ii) have only a vague idea how to spell it. :-)
@@peterwilliams6289
Kościuszko=Kosh'chuu'shko
Huh, I didn't know mt. Everest was named after a person. I always figured it was ever-rest, as in eternal rest which I thought was a very metal name for a mountain. Sort of a poetic way of calling it mt. Death.
It would make sense when the English/western name is made known first. I had the same idea myself (eternal rest or like a throne, glorious), now I know it has a more localized name.
as a Kid with Mount Saint Helens famously going splodey, I assumed all Mountains were partly Volcanic... and that Everest was 'Everrest' as in they had no evidence of it going off for so long and it was "Ever at Rest'... once I learned of Plate Tectonics, and India Colliding with Asia to form it I never stopped to rethink my childhood theory
The word "Puncak" in Puncak Jaya means summit, so it's roughly translated to Victorious Summit or Summit of Glory
Isn't the most senseful thing to keep the "native" name in each language? It's never going to work having the same proper names for places etc in every language since they are all so different. Why would 8 different tribes in one area have to use one name?
I think it is as a matter of respect to the people living and revering the mountain in that area for centuries and their language/culture... After all people in the English speaking world don't really call Mont Blanc "White Mountain" so why the need to translate / rename the original names when it comes to other languages?
Partly it stems from the (mis)perception of certain land, back from the age of exploration as 'Terra Nulius' or discovery doctrine, regarding many places as 'nobody's land' although people have lived in the area for tens of thousands of years.
Aditya C Yes of course, I was not referring to the colonial names but rather to the idea of having all surrounding tribes having a meeting to choose one name
@8:04, also an American hero and historical figure. His statue got vandalized in the DC unrest. He was a soldier and general in both Poland and the USA, an abolitionist who dedicated his estate to the education of slaves. Born into a noble family, but had been forced to and abandoned it due to circumstances. Learned English, contributed to the what little cavalry the American colonial rebels had.
It was rather the other Polish volunteer that helped establish the American cavalry - Kazimierz (better known as Casimir) Pułaski. Kościuszko was first and foremost a military engineer, building fortifications for example in West Point, although he also directly commanded troops in battle.
He is also being considered a national hero by some Lithuanians and Belarusians.
@@Artur_M. Finding information on these two is hard, in part because I cannot type their names out.
@@ilikedota5 I completely understand. :)
It's nice that you are taking an interest in them.
@@Artur_M. One thing that the Union benefitted from was revolutionaries from the failed 1848 uprisings running to the USA, and many joined up with the Union Army, and continued their freedom fighting mission, just in a different place and context, but same general principle.
Wow, this is amazing, as I was just an hour ago having a discussion with some in a hiking group on FB which mountains in New Hampshire have native names vs. were named after some white guy. How timely!!
Also, I think I suggested the seven summits awhile back (or maybe I just wanted to and never did?), but that's okay, I don't need the credit, I'm just so pleased you finally did the video. :-)
You pronounce the "c" in Indonesian as "ch". So it should be like Punchack Jaya
c in Indonesian is pronounced like ch, just like in Italian
I could write something similar about his pronunciation of ,,mount Kościuszko" but I wouldn't even know where to start
@@jojo.s_bekaar_adventures In Italian, c is pronounced like ch when appearing next to i or e, while pronounced as k when appearing next to a, o or u.
Given his video about mountains and their native names, you'd think he'd put at least a little effort into how these names are originally pronounced. Oh the irony! Haha
7:23 Wrong section. Puncak Jaya is not a native name. It's an Indonesian word imposed against the local's name for the mountain. In fact, the name is actually very political.
I thought he did mention that Puncak Jaya does have native name pre-Carstenz (although he didn't mention which name). I believe he is referring to Nemang kawi.
Among other mountains known to have native names in the area such as Ngga-Pulu, Ngga Pilimsit, and Etiakup
I think you misheard the information XD
There's this Belgian comic book series of Suske & Wiske/ Bob & Bobette where one of their books is called "Sagarmatha", which is about the Mt. Everest and its folklore. I always thought Sagarmatha to be a way mightier name than Everest!
What's in a name? That which we call an Everest
By any other name would still be hard AF to climb.
K2 is reputed to be even harder to climb ... and doesn't really have a name at all.
It does (godwin austen)
@@abradolflincler726 "With the mountain lacking a local name, the name Mount Godwin-Austen was suggested, in honor of Henry Godwin-Austen, an early explorer of the area. While the name was rejected by the Royal Geographical Society,[14] it was used on several maps and continues to be used occasionally.[18][19]
The surveyor's mark, K2, therefore continues to be the name by which the mountain is commonly known. It is now also used in the Balti language, rendered as Kechu or Ketu[17][20]"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2#Name
Sāgaramātha is not only Nepali, but seems like it comes from Sanskrit.
Ocean Monastery? Surely not.
@@inregionecaecorum the words may have changed meaning, but could still have origins in Sanskrit
Sagar means ocean and matha is head so its head pf the oceans
@@Symphing12 You are partially correct my friend. "Sagar" is a Sanskrit word meaning sky but mathā is a Nepali word
I grew up in the mountains. So cool! ^^
I grew up at the very base of the Appalachian mountains
I love how you twist your tongue to pronounce Mt. Kościuszko :,-)
And yet Aussies pronounce it Kozi-Oz-koe
As an Aussie I'll say that the name 'Uluru' is used far more in the circles I move in than Ayer's Rock is. Hearing the name it was given in the 19th Century sort of feels odd. I know for myself I've gotten used to referring to it by its name in the Aboriginal language of that area (there are more than 200 Aboriginal languages and dialects in Australia).
Where do you live? Growing up in Sydney in the 1990's, everyone called it Ayers Rock. Leyland Brothers World used the same name for its replica too. Most of us in school didn't even recognise the native word. That's changed now with the media forcing it on everybody but most English speaking Australians still call it Ayers Rock.
@@Ggdivhjkjl I live in Melbourne, but I grew up in Adelaide in the 1990s. I would rarely expect to hear it called Ayers Rock by people in Melbourne.
Grew up in the NT and regional NSW, it was always Uluru except in nearing retirement.
There has been a long dispute over that volcano that can be seen from Seattle: Native name is either Tahoma or Tacoma, but is called Rainier.
I am Polish and I didn't expect that an Australian mountain had a Polish name but as expected Name Explain and English-Speakers don't know how to pronounce Polish words.
It isn't not "Kosciuszko" but "Kościuszko" as that was the correct spelling of the person the mountain was named after Tadeusz Kościuszko.
A) "sz" is two letters that make 1 sound corresponding to the "sh" sound.
B) All vowels have 1 distinct sound in Polish. It is a misconception that English has only 5 vowels. A vowel is a sound and English has too many vowels but English does have 5 letters that represent vowels. Basics of Polish vowels A = "ah", O = "oh", I = "ee", U = "oo" etc.
C) The letter C represents the "ts" sound in Polish like the majority of Slavic languages.
D) The Polish letter ś has a sound of "shi".
So "Kościuszko" is meant to be pronounced "kohshi-tsoo-shkoh" no matter what the English-Speaking Australians pronounce it. Also Tadeusz is pronounced "Tah-de-oosh" if you needed to know.
I understand if you're angry, but polish isn't easy to pronounce and he's only trying to educate and entertain within his skill, he might not know how to pronounce it exactly right but he gave the information and tried his best, should he apologize after every word to the people if he pronounced it wrong
@@loganharpole137
I'm at least happy that a Polish name was given to an important landmark outside of Poland & former lands controlled by Poland (which are just Kaliningrad (Which was called Królewiec by the Poles before the Prussians/Germans took it) Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine & Russia (even Poland took Moscow when we where in a Commonwealth with Lithuania)).
I can confirm that english speakers dont know how to pronounce it. Kosciusko was a hero in American Revolution so his name can be found in various places here in America, and yep its often pronounced "koz-ee-os-ko" in "Kosh-oo-shko". Spelling wasnt very standardized back then either, so people just pronounced the names in newspapers the best they could and never got corrected.
for example, Imarivolanitra in Madagascar is known as Pic Boby because the French mountaineers said "we'll name it after the first person who's up first" and the dog was up first.
Fun Fact : Instead of Everest pronouncing as Everest, we should pronounce it as Eve-Rest (as in Evening). George Everest after whom it was given the name was always quick to point out that his surname was pronounced wrong
It was pronounced something like eevrest or something.
/ˈiːvrɪst/ as in Eve and wrist...
Current names' pronunciation not being butchered would be a good start. 😁 On a more serious note, it's a case by case situation. How do you pick which country's name for Everest to use? Etc.
Never heard of Ayers rock, I've always know it as Uluru rock.
Mount Paektu was always called Paektu. We refuse to call it Changbai
Wasn't it Ayers rock instead of Ayres rock?
Interesting. Thanks for uploading!
I actually had no idea that Denali was officially called Mt. McKinley. I always knew it as Denali and didn't know it had another name until it was "renamed."
Cognates bianco = blanc = alBUS (latin) = blank (English)
Here in Santiago, Chile, there's a hill that was named "Santa Lucía" by Spanish conquistador Pedro de Valdivia, but the native Mapuche people had already given it the name "Huelen", and many people are fighting for its original name to be back, specially now after the recent unrest.
No tenía idea que el cerro Santa Lucía se llamaba originalmente Huelen, TIL 😅, igual dudo que la gente lo llame de otra forma, ya esta arraigado el otro nombre 🤔
Mount Rainier's native name is Tahoma/Tacoma. It was also temporarily renamed "Mount Seattle Seahawks" for four days because of the Super Bowl, I wish I was making that up.
I'm an American born in the mid-1990s. I knew Urulu had a different name, but I didn't know what it was. I hope this made an Australian happy today.
Uluru
Two years ago a delegation of the Aboriginal Ngarigo people from Australia was invited to Cracow to take part in the celebrations of the bicentary of Kościuszko's death to discuss this issue and learn about Kościuszko. From what I've gathered they were rather pleased with this visit. Anyway, I think that both names having an equal official status is a good solution (at least in this case).
So an important lake in my region was renamed (from Lake Calhoun to Bde Maka Ska) and I personally whole heartedly agree with the change. It’s a show of respect for the people who on es inhabited or have always inhabited the area around a natural landmark and a way to start removing racist, colonial or bigot stains from our societies. Thanks for making this video, it’s an important aspect to highlight
Honestly, sometimes I'm not sure what to call them in order to be respectful, but I know I must do what's right ...sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti.
This is a great video, but I can't help but notice a bit of Anglo/Western-centrism, at least in the section about Mount Everest. That name is so called in the west, but I'm pretty certain that the countries that contain it all recognize one form or another of its non-European name as the official name. So this discrepancy begs the question: why are we considering the official English name over the official Chinese/Tibetan/Nepalese names to be the *actual* official name for the video? In my opinion, this mountain should fall under the category of mountains that always had their original names, because these names are and have always been recognized by the countries that contain it. (This critique could apply to other mountains on the list, but I don't know much about these other ones.) Still, very informative video!
I have to mention Seven of Nine from ST:Voyager.
If I remembered my quechuan classes, doens't sound like a quechua word. G is not use in that area unless is a loanword from spanish. Maybe you mean "kawak" or "qawa"
I think names definitely can be changed, and even if it’s difficult for older people to remember the new (old) names it will eventually become normal. I’m relatively young (20), so when Uluru came up I really had to think to remember that it was also called Ayers Rock. Same thing with Denali. I only know it was called McKinley as a piece of trivia rather than an alternative name.
I'm always in favor of using native names for things. Like, "Uluru" is a much cooler name than "Ayer's Rock."
Nothing about "endonyms" vs "exonyms"?
alaskans were calling Denali Denali as far back as the 80's. i'm surprised it wasn't official until 2015
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Ararat mountain.
We still don't know exactly if Ararat is a given name (from the bible) or a native name from armenians. But armenian people call it "Ararat Massis" or simply "Massis" -which is also a given first name for boys-.
So we still don't really know.
Now it's in Turkey, and they call is Agri Dagi, Agri comes from Ararat and Dagi meaning Mountain.
Interesting fact, the region south of this mountain, the autonomous region of Nakhitchevan means "the place of the descent" in armenian, directly reffering to the descent of Noah from Ararat Mountains, with family and the animals after the great flood.
The street I live on use to be called "spot". It's been renamed for some local historic figure for over a decade now, but people still use the name spot quite often.
Due to K2's unforgiving terrain, I propose that it be named "Fukyu." Not only would it make sense, but it would look exotic enough for the "decolonization" crowd
Nepal and Tibet were closed to westerners when the survey was completed so the surveyors had no native name for it. It was originally just Peak XV. It would have been interesting if George Everest had got his way and the naming was deferred until after a native name was found. Would it have been received its Tibetan or Nepali name or simply remained Peak XV as happened to K2.
Apparently K2 doesn't really have a native name, or at least one that's widely used.
@@sydhenderson6753 Yeah, it can't really be seen from any populated areas.
Native names are also given names, no nation is the only one in history to rule its land.
we should refer to everything as their geo-coordinates. " Ah yes, 27.9881° N, 86.9250° E is lovely this time of year, I plan to climb it next summer"
@@TheCsel different languages can refer to mountains differently. While we should let the natives name their mountains for themselves, there's no point in ditching the "given" name.
In Venezuela we've got the "Waraira Repano" (The wave that came from afar) which is the mountain that defends Caracas from the Tropical tempest of the Caribean that the spaniards renamed: "El Ávila".
Also, we've got the "Churum Meru" (Don't know what it means) which is the Tepuy that has the tallest fall of water in the world and that in the 20th century they baptized "Salto Angel" because Jimmy Angel, a gringo bandit, discover it while smugling
1. New Zealand has a good record of replacing western names with Maori ones.
2. Fun fact: Mt Kosciuszko only had the "z" added into its name about 20 years ago, to conform to the Polish spelling. (I noticed YT's autocorrect still doesn't have the "z".)
3. Far from being challenging to summit, there's a road onto the actual summit of Mt Kosciuszko which used to be open to the public many years ago. I have a photo of my father an I standing beside our car and the trig station on the top.
8:52 I can’t believe Jacksfilms is Mount Everest
So interesting. Thank you for sharing
As an Aussie I meet many migrants who have names that the average Aussie finds difficult to pronounce/spell/remember. Due to this, they take on a more Anglicised name that's either similar to their actual name or something that they just like the sound of. I see the name of mountains as the same. Use the native name if you don't find it too difficult to say/spell/remember but, if you struggle with it, you should be able to call it what ever it was renamed as; without it being seen as rude. History is history.
Reminds me of the Haida Gwaii Islands, formerly the Queen Charlotte Islands
The problem with Mt Kosciuszko is that the main proposed Aboriginal name is a bit controversial. Ngarigu is a nearly extinct language and the speakers of it have been arguing over whether Kunama Namadgi is, in fact, an authentic traditional name. Kunama can also be interpreted to mean faeces, and some of the Ngarigo want to consult more Indigenous groups of the area.
I admit, I would rate one name over the other soley based on their coolness sound. The second one is hard to decide between the death and other name based on my naming conventions.
Of course this was more focused on the tallest peaks, but Mount Rushmore is definitely up there when it comes to controversy. Not only was it renamed in honour of an American businessman, it got 4 US president faces carved into it.
The second tallest peak in Brazil is called "Pico da Bandeira" ("Peak of the Flag") and for most of history was thought as the highest mountain in Brazil, located in the triple border among Brazil's three most populous states. I have no idea if it was ever known by a native name.
What about Pico da Neblina?
9:24 *mountains'
Really enjoy your channel mate!
Fyi Pitjantjatjara is pronounced more like: pigeon jaara or pitjinjarra.
There is even a c9ntroversy about a British mountain, of very modest height [only 3560ft] as to whether it should be called by its English name Snowdon or the Welsh Yr Wyddfa and the range it is in as Snowdonia or Eryri. It is in Wales, but there is also a mountain in England [near Horton in Ribblesdale, Yorkshire o be exact] which is called by the Welsh Pen-y-Ghent. As far I am aware there is no call to have this name translated.
I say do what the world has always done, and realize that exonyms and endonyms will always be used, and don't try to legalese your way into sweeping either under the rug.
So how would you choose which native people get to "officially" name The Artist Formerly Known As Everest?
I'm not saying that is in and of itself an argument to keep Everest, but I wonder how you avoid a similar problem. Especially if the names being considered come from rival peoples.
0:00 I'm guessing the oh-so-considerately named Squaw Tit Mountain will be making an appearance.
The Nine Summits
Denali . Tall/ Big
Mount Blanc . White Mountain
Elbrus . Like a 1,000 mountains
Everest . George Everest
Puncakjaya . Puncak Victorious
Aconcagua . Summit other admired
Kilimanjaro . Mountain of Greetings
Vinson . Carl Vinson
Kosciusko . Snow Mountain
Exonyms, when endonyms already exist, are bad. For example, K2 is fine because there were no endonyms due to the fact that it is not even visible from any nearby villages or settlements.
Don’t all mountains technically have native names? If you use the native language that is
Not necessarily. Smaller summits on the sides of larger mountains may not be named by natives. For example, in Arizona the peak of the Pinaleño Mountains is known as Mount Graham but due to the fairly rounded ridgeline and overall small area of the range, the entire range is usually referred to as Mount Graham. To my knowledge, indigenous peoples in the area such as the Apache named the mountain in a similar way. So small, indistinct peaks in the range such as Heliograph Peak (which is basically just a rocky outcropping that the US army put a heliograph station on in the late 19th century) may never have been named by the indigenous people.
@@qwryzu K2 (the second highest mountain on Earth) doesn't have an endonym because it's also not visible from even the nearest inhabited village/settlement.
I love your videos Patrick, but would it kill ya to learn the IPA
I see this similarly to how countries and cities are named. Sure, most places use the names that the people who lived there came up with, but even within Europe we have huge examples of "incorrect" names in other languages. The big examples are Germany vs Deuschland and even The Netherlands vs Holland to some degree. I do feel the English names should be related to their native names, but weirdness happens and it doesn't necessarily need to be changed if the peoples in question aren't reminded of western atrocities by the names. It's complex!
The Matterhorn in Switzerland also is known as Mont Cervin in French and Monte Cervino in Italian.
Nice video✌️✌️
Sir Edmund Hillary was offered the New Zealand governorship but was passed over for the post
Cities and towns in Greece had their names changed from Turkish/Slavic/Albanian to Greek. Usually an 'ancient' sounding name was chosen. This happened to establish the myth of ethnic continuity with antiquity and I suspect has happened throughout the Balkans.
It's a revisionist practice that completely disregards centuries of history to establish a connection with a 'cool' historic period, ignoring all that has happened before and after.
I think that mountains should retain their native names and on all official documents those native names be used. However, I don't have a problem with mountains having a "nickname" which foreigners can use. It just wouldn't be the official name. Kind of like how people have a legal name, but people are called by nicknames, too.
Also, "Mother of the World" is the coolest name for a mountain ever!
Actually in China, we call it Mt.Qumulangma, according to the traditional Tibetan name.
Australia's Mount Kościuszko is the greatest naming prank Polish people have ever pulled off and now everyone has to deal with it. It's a shame they didn't go for ''Mount Brzęczyszczykiewicz''
The Polish language is drunk look at the spelling
I believe keeping the well-known name is important because language is about having shared knowledge and stripping that is not only potentially controversial in itself but also just impractical. But I believe making historical or alternative names of the sites readily available and advertised is only a good thing too.
I also don’t see the problem to be honest, as I highly doubt any of the native population really use the foreign names so does it really matter? Different groups of people have different names for everything (that’s what language is) so I don’t really see any harm
Use both with a slash. Like Uluru/Ayres.
I’m for native names, but I like how odd of a name Kosciusko is for an Australian mountain. I love it.
I'm going to call Mt. McKinley "Mt. Dickey".
Everest's Mandarin name is the same as its Tibetan name but I think the pronunciation is a bit different, kinda like a Mont Blanc kinda thing.
It's not as though the Chinese _had_ a "native name" for it. Presumably after they invaded Tibet they asked somebody, "what do you call that one?"
@@wwoods66 it's not really that either; chinese and tibetan are part of the same language family and they've called the mountain Zhumalangma for centuries.
on the point of changing colonial names, India has a changed a lot of city names such as Bombay to Mumbai and Madras to Chennai .
Sagarmatha sounds rad!
It's worth noting Everest's shortened Chinese name of Zhufeng/Zhushan as well. The Tibetan name wont be given status, I assure you that.
Sagamatha? Did you find Samantha for olaf?
Apparently Mt Wilhelm in Papua New Guinea is also considered one of the '7 summits' given that Puncak Jaya is in Indonesia, which, as we all know, is part of Asia..
Thinks these 9 peaks should have had a tenth added. The 2nd highest mountain k2. And possibly an 11th, the biggest mountain (from base) the hawaiian shield volcano (muana loa/kea).
What's stopping these countries from calling their mountains whatever they like? lots of countries are called different names in different languages (Germany, Japan, Lithuania) I would figure the same convention would apply.
I still think it should still be called mount McKinley because it’s named in memory of someone and also it’s in the majority language of the country.
Puncak doesn't came from the surrounding region, It's an Indonesian word mean 'summit'. So the name Puncak Jaya would be meant "Victorious Summit" in Indonesian. The Papua region got its places' names changed during the sixties due to the Papua integration to Indonesia (whether or not the integration is lawful is up for debate and I don't want to open a pandora box). So the Indonesian government changed a few names like Papua -> Irian Jaya (Victorious Irian -> Irian is a acronym of 'Ikut Republik Indonesia Anti Nederland' which means "Join Republic of Indonesia and Anti-Dutch). The capital of West Papua at that time, Hollandia, was also renamed as Sukarnapura (Sukarno's Town) and then again renamed after the fall of Sukarno, to Jayapura (Victorious Town). Pura = Town/City, like the name Singapore -> Singapura -> Lion's City.
I am going to switch the conversation to rivers, I think most of the rivers in Britain have names which predate the Saxon invasion. Most mountains in Wales and some in England have Welsh names, but most people know Snowdon rather than yr Wyddfa.
Renaming Everest would be like renaming Constantinople :P
Many times the English or American imperialists were successful BECAUSE they were an outsider, and were seen as a neutral party compared to local rivals. Additionally in many places in south Asia, Africa, Americas, there are many languages spoken, so it was more convenient to resort to the lingua franca, which was often english or french. Likewise in today's world, English is cemented as an international language of trade and culture, so it benefits locals and natives to use the well known english names. That said I think there should be an effort to use the native names alongside the english names, especially locally. It isn't that confusing for something to have multiple names, and tourists don't usually visit them for a t-shirt souvenir, they want to learn about the location, so should be open to learning about the native names and cultures once they get there.
Is it true the Grand Tetons in Wyoming were named so because the looked like really big teets?