Is This A FAKE Seagull 1963? An Investigation.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 сен 2021
- THE 'ORIGINAL' BY SEA-GULL IS TO BE FOUND HERE!
jomw.link/ali-sea-gull-1963
BUT THERE ARE PLENT OF OTHERS THAT LOOKS THE SAM EBUT FOR MUCH LESS MONEY HERE!
jomw.link/ali-seagull-1963
THE WORN AND WOUND ARTICLE IS HERE!
wornandwound.com/review/a-loo...
ALBERT KAMINSKY'S BLOG IS HERE!
kaminskyblog.com/
SEE MY SELECTION OF TOP VALUE WATCHES AND ACCESSORIES ON AMAZON!
jomw.link/amazon
USE THE CODE ‘JOMW10’ FOR 10% OFF ANY PHOIBOS!
jomw.link/phoibos
USE THE CODE ‘JOMW20’ FOR 20% OFF ANY XERIC!
jomw.link/xeric
YOU CAN NOW HELP OUT THE CHANNEL BY BECOMING A PATRON! THANKS!
jomw.link/patreon
(The Small Print: Some of the above links are affiliate links. I am an Amazon, Phoibos, Spinnaker, Xeric, eBay, Jomashop, Meranom, and AliExpress Associate. If you make a qualifying purchase, I am paid a small finder’s fee from the companies in question. You don’t pay any extra for the product. Thanks!)
A reupload as I took it down when the channel was deleted due to the nature of the content. As discussed in the video, I do not think these are fake watches at all. In fact, it seems like Sea-Gull only decided to call the others fakes when they realised they were late to the party and wanted a piece of the action (other than selling the movements in all the others, of course). Anyway, a fun vid, and maybe a career in investigative journalism awaits me after all. Cheers, Jody
Hellooooo! This is a reupload which you may have seen before. I pulled it the week that the channel got deleted and reinstated because it contained the word 'Fake' and I was paranoid! Time it made a comeback! Cheers, Jody
hi jody a shop on ali called flexfil has aquartz 1963 for 30 quid i kid you not...as well as a dubious longines heritage style watch also labelled seagull
Cheers 🍻
@@nickp97 its probably plated alloy and they claim its sapphire crystal which i doubt
It even comes in a bronze case now too.
I knew it was a reup, because I didn't hear the new intro :D
I tried to buy another of the genuine version of this watch directly from China via my Chinese friend! She actually reached out to all of the sellers in China and they are all "fake" in that the actual 1963 reissue ended years ago and there are essentially NO genuine 1963s on the market anymore!
The ones that ARE genuine costs around 1000 dollars!
All sellers she reached out to in China have told her that the 200-300 dollar versions that they sell are copies made with the ST19 movement of the genuine 1963 sourced from seagull and some are even made by Seagull themselves but they are not technically the genuine versions which was the official reissue!
Seagull also appears to have told watch manufacturers that they can copy this watch as long as they don't copy the back plate which are never see through on the actual reissue and has a three dimensional seagull logo on it!
similar story, I am trying to buy one from within China.
Yeah the official tianjin seagull mall chinese website only has one chronograph with same same dial which has a non see through back case and black leather strap and cost almost $700usd when converted from rmb; I believe they do sell the st19 movement and other manufacturers can use it to make their own watches
Do you think the 4k rmb one on taobao is legit to purchase? Im looking at it right now... thanks It costs alot compared to the 400dollar price...
And the irony fked up thing is, Seagull did it to sell movements. This is why I never had any interest in Chinese watch brands, they don't know how to protect their legacy.
Communists tend to not believe in intellectual property @@hinrei1986
Less than half price for sapphire and a display back for the most attainable mechanical chrono movement? Think I'll stick with the "unofficial" version.
Sapphire is not curved, the curved part is in steel on those versions.
It's a totally different and not pleasant design feature not many people seem to take into account, because of too much focus on sapphire.
@@H0kram It does sound nicer, but I don't know if it's worth an extra $250+. My main interest in the 1963 is the movement more than anything anyway.
That’s funny, the sapphire on mine at least is slightly domed, it’s a “red star” 1963 off Ali. Mind you, the movement can have issues (mine will run down if the chrono is started, then stopped but not reset, other people report other QC issues) but it’s a lovely watch, and the mechanical chronograph is so much more enjoyable than the various quartz ones I’ve used.
If someone made a higher quality Rolex Daytona, it's still a fake.
@@ashleymalamute the movement matters the most
I loved the change of presentation. You told me a wonderful story and I learned a lot. Thank you so much for the history lesson. I’ll always watch anything you have to say about my addiction to affordable watches!
Ouf! 😅 I'm out of breath!
What a journey. Thanks for sharing Jody!
Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
What a great video Jody! I have been looking at this watch for sometime and all of this information was extremely informative. Thank you so much!
Hey Jody! I learned how to drive in a 1963 Bus! Thx for wearing the shirt and bringing back some good memories!
I decided to pick one up a while back and I was met with so many variations, case size, price, swan neck, no swan neck, acrylic, sapphire, display caseback, non display. My head was spinning like Linda Blair's. In the end it was too much and I bought something else 🤣
Same
@@robertsacknoff952 😂
Sapphire no swan
@@CybertroninfiniteOfficial is the swanneck ver better or the non swanneck ver better?
@@longminh2759 depends if you plan on adjusting it yourseld
Here for the re-upload because this is great content and learning material 👍🏻
I'd pay the extra for the "original" but for one thing. They don't do a display back and I want to be able to see that movement, It's gorgeous!
really useful - i've been through the pain of trying to work this out - great video.
By far the best intro to the Seagull 1963. The links are very helpful. Best compromise : the "official" seagull released in limited edition (5500 units) with a display case bought separately as Sea-gull does not supply them. But pricey...
So glad to see this one back up! Such a useful look into a really interesting watch. Horological history, business, politics and bit of intrigue! This videos has it all! Call me a nerd but this is one of my absolute favourite JOMW videos 🤓
Thanks Gareth! It took me 18 hours, so I was pissed of when I had to delete it 🤣
I'm with you Gareth. The Sino/Soviet split?, stolen swastika gold & swiss bank shenanigans, Sea-Gull v Seagull subterfuge & the simple ST19.
This story has everything!.. and lots and lots of "S's"!!!
In all seriousness though, it is a great little watch and the mov't itself is phenomenal.
✌🏼️
You are nerd.
💯 Same. Nerdy? If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right!
Thanks for making this. Interesting layers of info!
nice Tee Shirt Jodi the VW Bus is close to my heart and I know collectors that have gone down that rabbit hole.
This was a great video. Glad it’s back up😀
Without knowing the rich history/discussion around the watch, I fell in love with the look. I went through this rabbit-hole hole myself the past few days and have decided I will get one the HKED recreations. He seems to have the best rep for quality and the look of the watch is apparently closer to the true original design.
Great show Jody, for what it's worth I bought this off watching your show and really enjoy my Fake:)) keep up the great work!
Thanks mate appreciate the work that would have gone into this.
Great video. Very details & clear explaination. Thank you.
glad you are using my favorite background of yours!!!
the original watch was designed and conceived by government officials , and produced by state enterprise, so the design might be difficult to be copyrighted just like german flieger or british dirty dozen.
Take a drink for every time Jody says “Seagull 1963” as a fellow Scot I’ll happily down my drink and start a fresh before I start! 😂
OUF! What a journey! I'm out of breath after all that information 😅
Thanks for sharing.
I bought mine from Burnside Chrono in Australia and I'm happy-ish enough with it as a "homage" and/or "reissue". They tested it and made sure some of the QC problems they were having are ironed out. Mine is a Seagull 1963 ST1901 Venus 40mm Chronograph with a Sapphire crystal and Display Back. I think navigating the myriad options to buy the "original" was a bit too complicated for me and I just went with the one that made things easy.
i am in China. I saw the watch on another channel and immediately fell in love. I quickly clicked on one of the e-commerce sites here and ordered one for RMB900 (about US$150). I was so impressed and happy, thinking that it is cheap because I am in China. I went to another e-commerce platform (regarded as more reliable) and found the same watch for nearly RMB 4800 (about US$800). Huge price difference. I immediately cancelled my RMB900 purchase as I was thinking it is a fake. After inspecting both sites, the 900 watch's back is flat with some inscriptions on it whereas the 4800's back has some embellishments on it. So even here it is confusing. I hate wearing something I have to make an excuse for but also don't want to be an idiot who is being taken for a ride. Urgh...
Mine was $369.00 from Long Island Watch. Just like yours…Saphire both sides…..broken….chrono was in-op but Mark was great. He sent me a new one and it runs and looks great with 21 jewels, column wheel, swan’s neck, a lovely watch. Real enough!
Marc is THE MAN & I fully intend to get a SG1963 from him as well to allay any questions about authenticity... Just as soon as I get my Islander 38, and Islander 40 (in emerald 🤩) lol
Trying to work out if I want the closest to the original (38mm, acrylic crystal, 19 jewel etc) or a more practical but still beautiful one with the sapphire crystal (usually 21 jewel) maybe even with lume?
Also, I will be getting that clear case back as the mechanism is just too beautiful to hide
I absolutely love the inclusion of cultural pieces from the years discussed. Amazing stuff.
very interesting video about the 1963, thank you so much for all the informations, in the final, I didn't quite understand if the movement(st1901) in the "not originals" 1963 variants, is original or just a different movement that is similiar to the st1901???
Thank your for the respond!!!
Hi mate
Have had both the domed acrylic and the sapphire crystal side-by-side? What would you suggest.
Great info Jody...I may have to watch this twice to take in all the information...I did take away that I can also just wait for the Pagani photocopier to fire up and pump this thing out for $45
It’s nice to hear the old theme music. Love your stuff.
I have the same style 1963 as you have there and I don't even care if it is original or not, I love it, it keeps excellent time it's pleasing to the eye and pleasing to wear, I realised it wouldn't be an original going into the purchase and after wearing it over the past year I would definitely purchase another
I'm interested in the ST19 movement without sporting the red star. I like the look of some of the Sugress offerings, particularly the Stardust and the Moonphase Master. My question is about quality. Are these good watches that will perform well and hold up over time? Any help in this regard is appreciated, thanks.
Thank you for this review!!!
Thanks for the re-upload JodyOMW!
It was good to see if again with a bit more experience under (the gut above) my belt.
I have a 38mm 1963 from Sugess. I was constantly having to re-zero the chrono hand... until it fell off. So I got a lemon. Didnt 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 bother me, as it's a bit small for my 8“+ wrist, so I bought a 40mm version from Seakoss. Love it. Great dial proportions, and the 40mm X 50mm case is 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑓𝑒𝑐𝑡. I've got a 38mm Pierre Paulin panda from Murkur, but again - bit small. Gonna flog that and grab a 40mm Panda from Sugess... again.
But I've got a Hemel Air League with the mov't too and will be buying a Poljot Strela with the ST19 rather than the Poljot 3133. I really dig the mov't.
I buy the swan neck regulator version (when possible) and always go Acrylic (also when possible).
In fact, after I significantly down size my collection I'm going to collect ST19 powered chrono's. They're great looking, reasonably reliable, in-expensive 𝑎𝑛𝑑 I have a spare mov't (without a chrono hand yeah, but easily fixed). That'll give me the freedom to buy & sell the ~$1K re-issue tool & military watches I love and still have some $ to collect something I really appreciate.
These mov'ts are special man, for those of us who dig retro chrono's but don't have the funds to fuck around with vintage or Swiss column wheel mov'ts, this is pretty much it.
Cheers and thanks bud.
May I ask why you prefer the acrylic over sapphire? Just for the vintage look?
I have the so called "Official" version, I have also owned two other "None Official" versions, including an HKED. I don't know if I was unlikely, but both of the unofficial watches suffered from a slight stutter on the stop watch function, where as the official version performs flawlessly.
The "Sea-Gull" 1963 is now up to $580. I just bought a quartz movement 40mm that's got a nice solid back, a plex domed crystal, and very good dial for $35. If original is solid back, I'd rather have the no-hassle quartz and an extra $545 in my pocket. :) Great video btw!
A quartz 1963 for 35 bucks? Where did you find that?
@@TheMarslMcFly AliExpress
How’s it holding up? I’m considering the quartz as well.
This video is exactly what I've been wanting to see about this watch!
Excellent video! I love my Seagull 1963 as it is the most charming watch I own. It is the 38mm version with display case back. Lovely movement to look at. I paid $138 and that included a second (and very nice) vintage leather strap.
Whered you get it
@@oak6302 Aliexpress. They have gone up a bit since 2021 but you can get one for around $150 on sale (I have the Red Star version and it is a great watch).
My 1963 is the 42mm, gold tone dial, sapphire crystal, display back, and 1901 movement with the swan neck regulator. I love the thing. What never shows up on the photos online of the 42mm is the side of the case has an amazing reverse curve on the side from the middle toward the case back. It's almost like a covetto/cove or something.
Hands down the best explanation about this watch on RUclips!
Thank you!!!
Many mamy thanks. I think this video is the best possible effort to understand the unuderstandable market of this watch and movement. Do you know something about the swan neck regulator version? And about the lume hands version? I thank you again and keep going
A really useful video - thanks!
Jody you tell great stories lol 😂 Great video mate 👊🏽
Great explanation Jody......can you tell us all that again? LOL.
😳
Have to admit, Sea-Gull have some nice looking watches after a good browse through their website! (I bought a 1963 after watching your original upload, and not an original)
I got very confused from your video but not because of your video. It is very well detailed. I guess the bottom line is for me is the movement, i bought mine just for the movement so I opted for the cheaper model with the 2 lines of text and the signed crown.
Compared with that limited edition bronze case, this one is gorgeous! I WOULD LOVE ONE!
I watched this video a number of times and a few years ago, it helped me buy a Sea-Gull watch made from the original factory. As you mentioned, that was just a personal choice. Love the watch and your channel/videos... If you ever find yourself in California, let's have lunch.
Lol , just sniped the 38 mm Sapphire on eBay for $ 48 & it's brand new & running great ! Didn't even know what version it was until it arrived. 😁
Great history here on this watch…thanks mate…!!!
Very informative. The "big question" is ; if the official Tianjin factory which made Sea Gull "1963's" no longer makes them - what does the factory actually currently make ? Has it been closed down ? Is it still manufacturing watches or is it a watch factory that no longer makes watches ? So instead, does it make parts for lawnmowers ? Why operate and keep running a watch factory which doesn't make its most famous and popular product ?
Thanks for this 😊 it helped.
Thank you !! It made it clear for me !!!
Either way it's a mighty fine looking watch and the muddy waters that surround this watchay be confusing but part of that I think is to blame on Sea-gull itself. I'll definately be picking one of these up in the near future and once again great video. Thanks for..... kind of...... clearing that up lol.
I remember seeing on their official websites saying the 399 version is actually based on one of the designs that was not used back then.
Thanks for the explanation . I ended up buying one from Sea-Gull official store. My thought is that the design is named Seagull 1963. If you cannot tell me what is the name of your brand or factory, then it is not official
Maybe some are Seagulls, some are Sea-Gulls, some are Oyster Catchers, Ferry Terns etc, (not to mention the ocean going Duck), which would mean the 42mm version is an Albatross.
REALLY interesting video and brief interesting history into a company many of us rarely (if ever) think about. I've always looked at this watch adn never pulled the trigger because I became confused by how many places it was available, colors, sizes, options, etc., and never knew what I was getting. Real, fake, homage, clone, etc. The $400usd doesn't scare me a bit but I'm still not sure if I'm going to pull the trigger just yet. But Thank you again Jody, for another brilliant video, and for taking your valuable time to do the research and share it with us all. Keep up the good work.
Is nearly 700 usd now price rose almost double in a year 😳
I was wondering the same thing recently. However it really doesn't matter because it's still a disposable watch anyway.
You’re correct there’s a whole industry of non original “seagulls” out there
I was wondering where this video went, been looking for it for a while now, thanks for the re-upload Jody!
The real Sea-Gull factory has loaded up their Ali page with tons of "information" and it all looks very much like an attempt to re-claim a lost spot. The telling bit is where they say someone looked again at the docs 50 years later... So what I think happened is someone else (HKED?) started making 1963 copies in the 2000s and Sea-Gull probably were not too interested. Some years later, and late to the party, Sea-Gull realized the market had run away with something they declined and they wanted to get back in the action. So Sea-Gull realized their own copy/homage and tried to shout to all concerned that theirs was the "official" "proper" "real" one.
Hmmm, yeah well maybe. Maybe they can pull it off. One thing I do know is that Western values of copyright and trademarks don't apply 100% in China. They have their own values, different from Anglo-Saxon ones. Besides, as some other poster mentioned it was designed and made by state enterprise, so everyone's claim to anything is murky, even Sea-Gull's.
Let the market decide. Quality should win out.
Great comment, good observations.
So who has the best quality? Is it HKED or Sea-Gull?
@@justinnicholson8372 I've not seen a Sea-Gull but I can attest to the finish of my HKed 38mm domed acrylic version is impeccably finished, and is very accurate. Tested against my Junghans Mega RC, I've not adjusted the HKed over 3weeks continous running and the minute hand has not yet reached 1 minute fast.
I've read that he returns movements that don't reach his (higher) standards and by weeding out the poorer performing movements it really does look like he is able to offer a superior product, and whilst not the cheapest version of the watch, it is less than that charged by Sea-Gull themselves.
The "originals" were a side project by a Hong Kong seagull employee. Hong Kong seagull used to cater to 3rd party "own branders" who would work with them to design and manufacture watches in Seagull factories. The guy sold a handful of batches of them through various watch forums (if you have the patience to trawl through watch-u-seek
It wasn't sanctioned by Seagull, wasn't an official model, but had "Tianjin Seagull Watch Factory" on the dial.
The guy left but continued to make and sell watches. Seagull continued to make the "fakes" at their factories for own branders, the success and popularity of the model saw lots of different sellers flood the market.
Seagull has sold a few "official" airforce watches throughout this time, but until 2016 none of these were identical to the "replicas". When they did make a "real" one, they retroactively laid claim to the original Hong Kong batches as "real" reissues.
The panda one with a second hand, with a star counter weight, is a gorgeous piece
Jody, where do you get those funky T-shirts from?
Such an interesting vidéo !!!!
This is a perfect example of a watch brand don't know how to protect their legacy.
So, what is a Sugess offered on aliexpress with and w/o gooseneck? 40mm, sapphire crystal etc.. Another from 'Turbillon Watch 0fficial Store' offers a version only described as a 'seagull movement' watch, looks very good, no name. ($30 cheaper). I had decided that this chronograph was going to be my next watch. Which one to choose? Please. Can you do a followup video with further thoughts as in, are they all equal quality etc.?
do you still have the watch? how is it now? issues?
2:34 I'm sorry but why isn't the red second marker moving?
I've got the Seagull 1962 limited to 650.
Great watch with all official papers and leather box. But don't expect great accuracy, even from the original Seagull company. Lol
Since I'm not getting the Sea-Gull Seagull, I'll probably get an HKED version.
There's a version I really like EXCEPT for the hammer+sickle second hand.
Спасибо огромное, удивительно приятный интересный и информативный экскурс в историю! Thanks a lot, very interesting!
Jodie, What of the "1963" Watches, that use a "Swan Neck" regulator ? As I see that; Not as a "feature", but a Benefit. As It will be easier to regulate the Movement to it's full potential. I would base my decision on that capability. All the other factors, Size, Dial Color, the Hands, the Caseback - Display Back or Not, etc. etc. - to me are secondary.
It's $630 now! Wow ...
Wow!! Are the quality same?
Now i get it, several manufacturers of these pieces... My 1963 has the holes in the lugs drilled super close to the case. A nato strap are in most cases to tick if you get it on it might force the pins loose. Bloody anoying !
What about sugess? They seem to be pretty established on aliexpress selling the same thing
Is the swan neck version worth it? What does it do
Why are some of these numbered differently on the dial like zuan 19 or 21?
interesting to see that these are now £439 - thats quite a jump since September
There should be definetly a channel that focuses only on fake vs real...all / most brands
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
Was 399 dollars now almost 700 dollars a year later on date 7oct 2022 from same official store. How do they get away with price rises that much 😳
Where did u get your VW T-shirt?
A great subject and highly interesting history.
That said I'm pretty sure the one I own is fake as it cost £21 and has a quartz movement in it ;)
Are there any automatic versions?
you should compare both, the sad thing is they're selling the original for almost 700 now
Very nice watch - I'm pretty keen on it as it's my birth year - first and last time I will be owning up to that. (Not sure why they insist on putting a nato strap on a watch designed to show off its rotor-less movement though)
🙄🧐🥸 perhaps the watch should
be worn upside down .
Saw this for the second time. After the first time and went on and bought an official Seagull 1963. As a collector I believe the limited editions might make a good investment. Had it for almost one year now and I love. The only problem is that the movement is loud AF
Loud???? Mine is not.
I noticed the same thing when I started searching for a Seagull 1963 and just gave up because I thought that they were all fakes and I'm not about to spend serious money for a fake watch.
Bought a 'Red Star' 42 mm with caseback and sapphire glass, from a German importer.
Is it an original Seagull? Guess not.... But it makes me smile to be wearing it.
So what about the ones from AD's that cost $400 like long island watch? Are those the real deal?
Anyone have any idea which company produces the Moon Phase 1963's? That's the one I've really got my eye on!
Interesting stuff. Bit of a minefield really isn’t it! Either way I love both my 38mm and 42mm “Seagulls” whether they’re “Seagulls” or not!
Isn't one of the big differences between an original and a replica the Venus 175 caliber movement vs the new ST19?
Dam this is a very Informative video jody 😲⌚👌
I think it really depend which value do you seek for these watch. It's kind like the situation of Rolex and it's homage. Someone like the feeling of the brand value, others just like the design and quality. It's just like in the movie when they ask Saladin "What is Jerusalem worth?" and he answer "Nothing. Everything."
I Got the cheapest 1963 I could find on Aliexpress, $133 after the back to school discount, and I opted with the mineral Crystal since I wanted the supper domed Crystal and a but more durability, and so far I am very happy with it I even checked it on the time grapher it was running 4sec/day which is really good. I can't stop wearing it!