+Lunchguy Not all spiders in the game are considered beasts. (Haunt creeper tokens for example) Nerubians are sentient so they would not be considered beasts even if they were spiders.
It sucks so bad that Anub'arak is so weak, he is an iconic Blizz character, he deserves better. He can easily cost 8 mana or give him can't be silenced or tageted at 9 mana, then he is at least a consistent if bad win condition. But knowing Blizz he will suck forever, GG
+Darth Mortus I think you misunderstand why he is "bad." It isn't because he's weak, it's because he's slow. That's a metagame issue, if everyone else is trying to go fast (which they are) then anyone wanting to go slow has to figure out how to force the others to go their speed. If you can get them to go slow this is suddenly an amazing finisher, it's impossible to remove without silence or polymorphing and outvalues almost everything else. The problem then isn't that Anub'arak is bad but that rogues currently lack the tools to make people go slow enough for him to be good. If it were a warrior legend he would likely become a competitive staple overnight but until they give rogue more reliable AoE, taunt, heal or whatever else it's going to be difficult to make it work.
+The Message's Movies I completely agree with you. If you can somehow build a control Rogue deck without mill mechanics it can be unstoppable. Its a weak card for being too slow. But it can win you a topdeck war. I kinda don't understand why Krip thinks this deck sucks. Not sure how it will do against a pure aggro/face deck but it can take the upper hand against control decks. He also have some "filler" legendaries which might be throwing the theme away.
***** Yeah, I think the problem is that it doesn't fare well against aggro since if they get ahead even a little it can be difficult to catch up. Your only AoE options are Arcane Explosion 2.0, a mass backstab that requires a very specific group of targets, a two card combo that requires having a weapon out and a mass bounce that just delays the situation most of the time. Hypothetically you can resort to big taunts and the neutral quasi-AoE dudes like explosive sheep, doomsayer, baron geddon and so on to help make up for this weakness but that's not ideal. The good news is that this won't necessarily be a problem forever. Shaman lacked AoE and card draw until this expansion, warrior lacked a bolt alternative that could get around taunt, druids lacked aggressive tools and so on... unless they want to only print tempo cards and oddities like gang up in rogue forever for some reason we're eventually going to get the tools to make solid control rogues, it's just a matter of waiting for it. The super good news is that his enter the battlefield sound will be extra ominous when nobody has seen or even heard about the card in two years. "From the depths I rise!" "Oh fuck, what the hell is that? Did I lose? I just lost to whatever that thing is, didn't I?"
The Message's Movies Nah, he is legit really, really bad. Look at any streamer's review if you don't trust me. Imo the main issue is that his design is to grind out the opponent but a simple silence or poly-effect will take him out and if you built your deck around him (and actually you could, if he was unsilencable/untargetable) then it would just be GG. If you knew with certainty that once you put down Anub he would give guaranteed value (and keep giving it as long as the game goes on) then a deck would have a good chance of popping up around him. The reason he sucks super bad is because that isn't true and no consistent deck can be made. Worse yet when silenced Anub loses like 4 mana worth of value on the spot, as if he wasn't bad enough to begin with. The alternatives of dropping him by one mana *or* just giving him no-silence *or* non-targetable or some mix of those is a halfway point that would make him bad but maaaaaybe playable in some theoretical rogue control. As is this card will never ever see play, mark my words.
+Robotputty Yes it does. the ambush effect only activates when they draw the card so if they have 10 cards and discard ambush you don't get a 4/4 and they don't draw a card. At least I'm pretty sure it works that way.
+Robotputty If they draw it when they already have 10 cards in their hand, Ambush is burned and no other card is drawn. If they draw it with less than 10 cards, you're right. Burning Ambushes sucks though.
mad props to you for testing all of these things. i actually had a situation where anubarak helped me keep up with CW late game, but that was about all that it's done for me. Unfortunately, the meta will never slow down to a point where anubarak is good enough (unless there is some kind of combo with it in future expansions).
I will dance whole night the day that Kripp will post video that is not calculator quality, man this is your work, make sure you deliver good quality. Your 720p is like 360p
I've been playing and experimenting with Mill Rogue and it's really good actually. It gives the mill deck great flexibility. Sometimes you can't expect to mill all decks, especially aggressive decks or patron decks you don't want to mill and you want to go more control focused, it shines there. Against decks you see you are going to mill, you hold off on playing them untill later when they have few cards left then you draw several in a row and it's great. You have to time it with when you use your oracles/shadowstep combos. Also learned that Gang up is really great to switch up your game if the mill strategy isn't going to work. Beat a couple of hunters by ganging up their highmanes
Beneath the Ground works well when you draw cards for your opponent. So it's a card for milling rogue. And you do give cards to your opponent but whenever they draw "Ambush!" they draw another card so it's not negative synergy with milling.
The thing is: on a mill rogue, you DON'T want to play it on 3 versus control. You're gonna play it late game against a control deck and early against aggro or tempo. Midrange it depends if the opponent is holding a lot of cards or not. So, as a general rule, you want to start to mill hard. When opponent try to spend his cards, then you play "beneath the grounds". That's the strategy. Furthermore, it is awesome when played against an empty deck, for you get 3 4/4 right away. So, it's a fun card and can be very good if you play it on the right time.
Beneath the Grounds is a Mill Rogue card, it goes well with Gang Up + Coldlight Oracle. It's agressively costed, and I'm pretty sure we'll see more of Mill Rogue because of it.
Jeez, what the heck did they do to Anub'Arak's voice? He sounded so cool in Warcraft 3, Cold and calculating like the king he was, but still brutal in manner and combat... now he is just like a general villain really, and sounds way to much like another card - that I can't recall right now.
Darth Marr Well that's actually not that big of a deal, a lot of characters have similar lines. "From the depths I come" was also something the Naga Myrmidon said in the Frozen Throne.
+Otter They should have just rehired the same guy from WC3. He sounded a lot better back then. Now he just sounds like a less entertaining and charismatic KT.
I've been running G. Jouster in Combo Druid and I've been really happy with the results. I'm glad to see that someone noteworthy has similar feelings. =]
Anub'arak has single handedly managed to help me win alot of control games...especially against control warrior. Though i truly wish Anub'arak wasn't a rogue card, but a neutral
Except they draw again after the ambush like burrowing mine. Otherwise it would be OP af. Due to this, you're playing the same mil deck with a high chance to happen upon another win condition or at least stupid value.
+Terioth What you're describing would be a fatigue deck, where they actually draw the card, and your goal is to stay alive, NOT kill their cards (though it could be a good thing, dont get me wrong). If you're playin a MILL deck, when the ambush gets discarded (not drawn, there is a difference), you DO NOT get the minion, and they DO NOT draw a second card. Thus, if you MILL with ambushes, you are getting negative synergy like Kripp stated.
In any mil deck, way more cards are drawn than discarded and, hence, more ambushes are drawn than discarded. This means the highest chance occurrence of Beneath the Grounds is getting 2 of the 3 ambushes drawn which means my original statement is correct. It doesn't need to be a 12/12 for 3 to be OP. 8/8 is still very OP, especially when combo'd with other overbudgeted mil rogue cards like Deathbringer, Dancing Swords, and Mukla. You can take away slightly from one win condition to fully establish another. Any other way of thinking is functional fixedness.
+Terioth "You can take away slightly from one win condition to fully establish another" Finally someone who gets it! I have seen, in my own mill/fatigue deck, which runs two BtG's, that having just a ass ton of nerubians wins the game quite often... In my opinion, the risk & or dis-synergy of this card is far outweighed by the benefit and alternate win path it provides. .... I guess I think of it like this as well: If I mill the ambush I'm sad, but at least I'm able to mill and probably am winning (because I'm able to mill) if I'm not able to mill (perhaps for lack of combo pieces) I don't just auto-lose. I have another way to come back!
I've been tuning a deck that is something like this. A dragon base, but with 2x preps, saps and a few other spells. I had some hilarious games where they drew into 2-4 Ambushes directly in a row.
Beneath the Grounds doesn't interfere with mill rogue, it works like the mines in the iron juggernaut. After they are drawn they also draw the next card in the deck.
i had a deck of similar concept. I put molten giants zombie chow and fairy dragon instead of the legendaries/one drop and had a ton of fun with it. beneath the grounds wasnt as good as i expected, but the deck itself was pretty fun
I've actually been playing Mill Rogue with Beneath the Grounds and the Nerubians dont get burned when a player has a full hand, the Ambush activates and a new card is drawn, which is then burned. So drawing a Nerubian isn't actually the same draw mechanic as a normal draw, this also applies to fatigue damage. If your last card is an Ambush and you draw it, you will still take 1 fatigue damage. To conclude Beneath the Grounds is a very viable card in Mill Rogue.
@Kripparrian - Beneath the grounds doesn't make it harder to mill your opponent, those cards are drawn just like the mine from Juggernaut - it gets drawn, the effect triggers and then you draw another card.
+Kantrooo However if the card is burned, then no nerubian is summoned and it replaces the card burn. So it makes it harder to burn the cards + it isn't necessarily more likely that it will trigger. Or that is what kripp thinks.
Beneath the grounds is definitly good in a mill rogue. You just have to be careful since the ambush makes your opponent draw UNLESS the card get discared so the best things to do is to play it when you are not going to have any opportunity to discard a lot of cards, It always happen: turn one against a face hunter, when you reach fatigue against an handlock. Actually I play mill rogue a lot and you can still discard one or two ambush against a midrange and still win the game later, you are just going to draw one or two fatigue card
about beneth the ground: when ambush is drawn, a 4/4 is drawn AND new card is always drawn, So it actually doesnt at all factor in mill deck ( well, except that you get a semi-free body on board) so its actually ok if you make your oponent draw cards it actually combos, his actual drawing card potential is the same, and you have more probability to get a 4/4 if you make your oponent draw cards
other thing is that I'd put one beneath the grounds into tempo rogue, mainly because if you happen to have free board at any point in game it good to play this card without any repercussions, and getting 4/4 makes your oponent have to answer it most of the times ( since you can combo it easily with tinker oil), and that can shift tempo into your favor. Of course it is only viable if you dont have better card ( for me, i have it instead of thalnos, because that is 1200 dust cheaper :P )
Kripp, I hear the statistics talk alot on your streamers forums. The term you are looking for is the price of variance (known as the sharpe ratio in statistics) which is value per unit of variance. Its the added value you obtain for decreasing the consistency of the deck.
Beneath the Grounds could possibly work in a Warlock-heavy meta. Both Zoo and Handlock draw a crap ton of cards, and the 4/4's should be able to trade 2 for 1 in most cases, especially since your opponent won't expect when the Nerubian will be summoned so he won't have the right cards at the right moment to deal with them. The 4/4's might be slightly less impactful against Handlocks, but will still come in handy versus Giants, I think.
I'm going to point out that BTG works better in Mill Rogue than you would think. Mill falters against aggressive decks because it lacks board presence and drawing cards for the opponent is really bad; BTG solves both those problems. Second, it doesn't actually add cards to their deck, because when they draw Ambush, they also draw one of their own cards. Now it's true that it fails when you mill off the Ambushes, but you can't win 'em all. I had a hilarious match where I used Prep+BTG on turn 1, then my Hunter opponent drew two Ambushes on his turn 1. He conceded.
it is in theor for Oil Rogue... its a one card slot to get three minions that can attack on your turn and mkes your opponent have to del with something extra or face the oil burst.
FYI Kripp, I'm pretty sure that Beneath the Grounds Makes the opponent draw another card after the Nerubian is summoned, so the effect on a mill deck is still null.
I think beneath the grounds fits into some kind of a stax type deck with things like mana wraith and naru'abar weblord, if something like that is evening build able in hearthstone. Probably not enough taxing effects yet to make it work.
You know the little button that allows you to skip youtube commercial's after 5 seconds ? I suggest adding a similar option to all of the kripp's video, allowing people to avoid the kripp and to save their life... Btw, 7:29 to skip the kripp
I think Prep -> Beneath the Grounds is pretty good. If it's early in the game, you should always play something else on turn 3, but if you can prep it, it's fine early, if not then leave it for later. It's high RNG, but if you get 3 4/4s for 3 mana, that's ridiculous. You just need a very good control deck and I think the card is decent. Kripp is too obsessed with immediate value. He was highly critical of Gang Up for the same reason - you get nothing when it's played, but you get 3 copies of a card of your choice for 2 mana, which is insane. and why the card is so common now.
+QuantumBraced I think, i might have encountered mill rogue once in early BRM. So, it might actually be not that common. And dealing 2 damage to the enemy's face for 0 mana + getting a Card back to your Hand also sounds pretty good, but headcrack is still a crappy Card. As it turns out prepping almost everything else is much better.And immediate value is very important, since snowballing is a very common Thing in Hearthstone. So you pay a big Investment of 3 mana. Usually you would break even at the first nerubian, but since you already fell behind it actually doesn't. And the later your Investment profits, the bigger the Profit has to be and that's just not the case with this Card.
Beneath the grounds is a win condition for mill rogue when they have no cards late assuring victory if they don't have ten cards in their hands or they have lethal but u know it just keeps drawing so if used right gains immediate value
chillmaw should freeze anything that survives. also beneath the grounds should put 2 ambushes in opponent's deck and just straight up spawn a 4/4 for you on your side of the board, or at least an egg
erm i believe that when they draw an ambush that doesn't count as they draw fro that turn, they still draw another card, so its not like your giving your opponent and extra three cards, and if they draw it with a full hand it doesn't get discarded, you still get your 4/4 and the card they draw after the ambush get discarded. blizz obviously would have thought about mill rogue when they designed the card.
A rogue tried to run this kind of deck on me in constructed against my warrior and I only drew one Nerubian that was quickly dispatched by what was already on the board. He tried playing draw cards but drew the mines I put into his deck instead from my Iron Juggernaut/Youthful Brewmaster combo.
Yesterday i drafted a rogue deck using HearthArena for experimental purposes. HA managed to decline good tempo cards and build a slow "control" deck with a high card quality. It also took Anub'arak over Van Cleef himself. I decided "why not, let's see how good it is". Literally all it did in 11 games i played with the deck was eating a Polymorph, even though the deck was slow. Never again.
This is a mechanism that blizzard needs to fix. Normal draw phase = Draw a card then put it into your hand. Otherwise it's draw a card and discard if your hand exceeds 10 cards. When your hand is not full and you "draw" the ambush you never put it into your hand. So by blizzard's logic, you shouldn't even get a 4/4 when the opponent draws the card, because you don't actually draw it, but discard it.
I don't know why but my RNG with beneath the grounds is insane, I've never had a game where ambush isn't been top decked at least once the turn I play it, but I can understand why it's considered bad, but to me it's amazing cause my RNG with that card is freaking nuts
Give Anub'arak COMBO: Charge (Since he's 9, you'll need low level spells or minions to trigger it so it should be a good prerequisite) and make Beneath the ground not make them draw after drawing it or make it cost less since it's big RNG.
You've got to support Arashi for not conceding after his Mana Tide + Elemental Destruction combo (unless it was just a flashy way to destroy the card).
Hey Kripp, I love to mess around with shitty decks and experience the fun moments, like you said, learn why they're bad and become better. I suggest trying out DivineShield/Taunt on Paly, and +1/+1 with Paly too
+Nate Puterbaugh It is sadly a true statement about how Rogues everywhere got bitchslapped and have to work with their old tools still. Well, hope that changes when Naxxramas comes out.
Beneath the grounds works with mill. Even if they have a full hand and draw an ambush you still get a 4/4. Just search for a mill rogue deck and see it for yourself.
+maurits meijers "And beneath the grounds delivers board presence which isnt a mill rogue´s purpose" this is literally the stupidest thing i have seen today. think of each creature like a 4 damage kill spell, and removal magnet. and a fatigue deck rather than a mill deck is what this card's made for, i think an agro/fatigue deck would be best.
OMG Always when i'm watching his videos i thinking what he says at the end "and see you guys....what?" pls answer, is killing me X'D (sorry for my english yup)
*having played gang-up mill rogue with beneath the grounds I can say this :* Having the card milled in mill rogue does in fact defuse the entire card. However since you will mill around 7 cards it usually ends up destroying only one spiderbro, so its not like this card is completely bad. The real reason its bad is because its another situational card in a deck full of situational cards. And its an anti-tempo card in a deck where tempo is key. It's just a dead card too often. The only real use this card has in mill rogue, is to play it as soon as fatigue sets in, at which case it is a guaranteed 12/12 total stats that might die to their AOE that they havent played yet because you don't have anything else worth AOEing in their deck. Finally, its also kinda a win-more lose-more card. If you have trouble getting things rolling with mill-rogue (the deck will F you over about half the games you play..) , then that will only increase the chance you don't get spiderbros as well.
Kripp why isn't beneath the grounds good in mill rouge? When they draw an ambush the opponent draws a card after that. If they didn't you wouldn't be able to get two ambushes in a row. So in effect it's the same as not adding cards to their deck with respect to milling them.
Just because Beneath The Grounds doesn't take the place of other cards in your opponent's deck... It doesnt mean there's negative synergy. When an ambush is drawn, it it automatically played, and then a second card is drawn to replace it.
+Master Austin Kripp thinks (other contests this, I don't know), that if an ambush is burned, the ambush is burned instead of the opponents card cancelling the effect. In other words beneath the grounds makes it harder to burn your opponents deck, and doesn't necessarily provide more nerubians in a mill deck.
so a couple days after tgt's release I put in gadzcan jouster in my no combo ramp druid, lots of big drops though it would work great and late game zombie chows had screwed me over more than once. LITERALLY first four times I played the card I pulled the other jouster and lost.Got so salty I took it out, haven't played it since. true story.
![[Hearthstone] Everyone Get Outta Here!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pr8jfkbqD1c/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] Everyone Get Outta Here!](/img/tr.png)
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heyguyshowsitgoingkripparrianhere
+BadNewsBrod So accurate it hurts.
+BadNewsBrod heyguyshowsit ? animalcompanionhere
+Mr Waffles always huffer.
Is this the fishing tournament?
No it's the grand tournament Kappa
+Packfoundev No this is Patrick
+Packfoundev I can wait and fish AAAALLL day!
+Packfoundev I've been fishin' on this 'ere spot since mornin', son, sun went up and down again, but I pulled nothin' but those damn scary spiders.
+Packfoundev no, THIS IS SPAAAAARTAAAA!
I saved 17 people's live last time! Can I save more live's? Skipp da Kripp 7:29
Someone already beat yah to it bud.
+Brendan Marcus Magkasi no fack you xD
Cool story bro!
That long? Dang!
7:28
you're welcome
That was quick
+Dustin Breakey forgot to type skip kripp but I get what you implied still it is a novelty tradition that shouldn't be forgotten.
All hail our savior , may your childen always be fed, and may your balls never be dry
Ty mate I owe you my family
+Dustin Breakey You are a real hero.
Still wonder how he does put that head throught that hole in the shirt... KAPPA
+Matěj Plachta zipper in the back :v
Still wondered if people bring this old joke... Well, not anymore
+Matěj Plachta hhahahahahahaha ive just realised
+Matěj Plachta he jumps in
+Matěj Plachta He puts his shirts on like pants, his legs and waste are smaller around then his head too KAPPA
WHY
THE HECK
IS THIS DECK
NOT CALLED SPIDEROUGE?!?!
+Callie Because Nerubians aren't spiders. If they were, they would be considered beasts.
because the class is rogue not rouge hehe
+Lunchguy Not all spiders in the game are considered beasts. (Haunt creeper tokens for example) Nerubians are sentient so they would not be considered beasts even if they were spiders.
+Jack Kimball Actually, the haunted creeper tokens aren't actually spiders anymore. They're spectrals. So technically, they're ghosts.
ARACHNOLOGIST ALERT!
ALL TAKE COVER FROM THE SPIDER SCIENTISTS!
(I had to search Google for that word, I need a shower now)
It sucks so bad that Anub'arak is so weak, he is an iconic Blizz character, he deserves better. He can easily cost 8 mana or give him can't be silenced or tageted at 9 mana, then he is at least a consistent if bad win condition.
But knowing Blizz he will suck forever, GG
+Darth Mortus I think you misunderstand why he is "bad." It isn't because he's weak, it's because he's slow. That's a metagame issue, if everyone else is trying to go fast (which they are) then anyone wanting to go slow has to figure out how to force the others to go their speed. If you can get them to go slow this is suddenly an amazing finisher, it's impossible to remove without silence or polymorphing and outvalues almost everything else.
The problem then isn't that Anub'arak is bad but that rogues currently lack the tools to make people go slow enough for him to be good. If it were a warrior legend he would likely become a competitive staple overnight but until they give rogue more reliable AoE, taunt, heal or whatever else it's going to be difficult to make it work.
+The Message's Movies I completely agree with you. If you can somehow build a control Rogue deck without mill mechanics it can be unstoppable. Its a weak card for being too slow. But it can win you a topdeck war. I kinda don't understand why Krip thinks this deck sucks. Not sure how it will do against a pure aggro/face deck but it can take the upper hand against control decks. He also have some "filler" legendaries which might be throwing the theme away.
*****
Yeah, I think the problem is that it doesn't fare well against aggro since if they get ahead even a little it can be difficult to catch up. Your only AoE options are Arcane Explosion 2.0, a mass backstab that requires a very specific group of targets, a two card combo that requires having a weapon out and a mass bounce that just delays the situation most of the time. Hypothetically you can resort to big taunts and the neutral quasi-AoE dudes like explosive sheep, doomsayer, baron geddon and so on to help make up for this weakness but that's not ideal.
The good news is that this won't necessarily be a problem forever. Shaman lacked AoE and card draw until this expansion, warrior lacked a bolt alternative that could get around taunt, druids lacked aggressive tools and so on... unless they want to only print tempo cards and oddities like gang up in rogue forever for some reason we're eventually going to get the tools to make solid control rogues, it's just a matter of waiting for it.
The super good news is that his enter the battlefield sound will be extra ominous when nobody has seen or even heard about the card in two years. "From the depths I rise!" "Oh fuck, what the hell is that? Did I lose? I just lost to whatever that thing is, didn't I?"
+Darth Mortus The video has shown how Anub'arak works:)
The Message's Movies
Nah, he is legit really, really bad. Look at any streamer's review if you don't trust me.
Imo the main issue is that his design is to grind out the opponent but a simple silence or poly-effect will take him out and if you built your deck around him (and actually you could, if he was unsilencable/untargetable) then it would just be GG. If you knew with certainty that once you put down Anub he would give guaranteed value (and keep giving it as long as the game goes on) then a deck would have a good chance of popping up around him. The reason he sucks super bad is because that isn't true and no consistent deck can be made.
Worse yet when silenced Anub loses like 4 mana worth of value on the spot, as if he wasn't bad enough to begin with. The alternatives of dropping him by one mana *or* just giving him no-silence *or* non-targetable or some mix of those is a halfway point that would make him bad but maaaaaybe playable in some theoretical rogue control. As is this card will never ever see play, mark my words.
1:53 uggghhh FailFish kripp it draws a normal card from their deck after the ambush. it doesn't interfere with mill rouge...
+Robotputty This Guy Legend EleGiggle
+Robotputty Yes it does. the ambush effect only activates when they draw the card so if they have 10 cards and discard ambush you don't get a 4/4 and they don't draw a card. At least I'm pretty sure it works that way.
Borjan peovski let somebody make it a mill rouge gang up deck see if it actually works..
+Robotputty If they draw it when they already have 10 cards in their hand, Ambush is burned and no other card is drawn. If they draw it with less than 10 cards, you're right. Burning Ambushes sucks though.
+Robotputty No Kripp is right, it is bad in mill rogue because when it gets discarded you do not get the 4/4 minion.
24:24 That Nerubian into MCTech into stealing the best minion was hilarious
mad props to you for testing all of these things. i actually had a situation where anubarak helped me keep up with CW late game, but that was about all that it's done for me. Unfortunately, the meta will never slow down to a point where anubarak is good enough (unless there is some kind of combo with it in future expansions).
I will dance whole night the day that Kripp will post video that is not calculator quality, man this is your work, make sure you deliver good quality. Your 720p is like 360p
I've been playing and experimenting with Mill Rogue and it's really good actually. It gives the mill deck great flexibility. Sometimes you can't expect to mill all decks, especially aggressive decks or patron decks you don't want to mill and you want to go more control focused, it shines there. Against decks you see you are going to mill, you hold off on playing them untill later when they have few cards left then you draw several in a row and it's great. You have to time it with when you use your oracles/shadowstep combos. Also learned that Gang up is really great to switch up your game if the mill strategy isn't going to work. Beat a couple of hunters by ganging up their highmanes
It belongs in a fatigue rogue that doesn't aim to mill, just draw through the deck and stay alive.
+Brendan Beckett When you are playing fatigue you want to mill your opponent. Except in fatigue mage but it's not the same type of deck.
Lord Jaraxxus That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
+Brendan Beckett it belongs to a museum
ϨρϘɌξ lol nice one xd
+Lord Jaraxxus Fatigue and Mill aren't the same things. When you want to mill your opponent, you're playing a mill deck, not a fatigue one.
Beneath the Ground works well when you draw cards for your opponent. So it's a card for milling rogue. And you do give cards to your opponent but whenever they draw "Ambush!" they draw another card so it's not negative synergy with milling.
this video shows me why i love ur content so much, i wished that kind of card presentation i was missing when i played magic back then, Thumbs Up!
Enemy draws two nerubians in a row at very low odds each, complains about rng when losing a 1 in 4. Typical saltarrian
I love this deck the combination of the cards work together so well
The thing is: on a mill rogue, you DON'T want to play it on 3 versus control. You're gonna play it late game against a control deck and early against aggro or tempo. Midrange it depends if the opponent is holding a lot of cards or not. So, as a general rule, you want to start to mill hard. When opponent try to spend his cards, then you play "beneath the grounds". That's the strategy.
Furthermore, it is awesome when played against an empty deck, for you get 3 4/4 right away.
So, it's a fun card and can be very good if you play it on the right time.
No nerubian egg? You disappoint me Kripparino Dissapointerino
That Nerubian Egg + Backstab combo opportunity
+Steven meh, thats 2 cards for a 4/4. Pretty bad really.Good for turn 2, but if you get out valued, you will be topdecking the rest of the game.
+diskausity thx captain obvious
Beneath the Grounds is a Mill Rogue card, it goes well with Gang Up + Coldlight Oracle. It's agressively costed, and I'm pretty sure we'll see more of Mill Rogue because of it.
Jeez, what the heck did they do to Anub'Arak's voice? He sounded so cool in Warcraft 3, Cold and calculating like the king he was, but still brutal in manner and combat... now he is just like a general villain really, and sounds way to much like another card - that I can't recall right now.
+Otter Anub'arak also says ''From the depths I come'' similliar with Voidcaller ''from the void i come''
Darth Marr Well that's actually not that big of a deal, a lot of characters have similar lines.
"From the depths I come" was also something the Naga Myrmidon said in the Frozen Throne.
+Otter They should have just rehired the same guy from WC3. He sounded a lot better back then. Now he just sounds like a less entertaining and charismatic KT.
+Otter yep, its bothering me as well :/
+Otter I know dem feels. This would've been my first legendary craft if they didn't fuck up the voice.
watching the Ebola back and forth on stream and now on youtube is still funny both times lol
I've been running G. Jouster in Combo Druid and I've been really happy with the results. I'm glad to see that someone noteworthy has similar feelings.
=]
Anub'arak has single handedly managed to help me win alot of control games...especially against control warrior. Though i truly wish Anub'arak wasn't a rogue card, but a neutral
This is why I watch Kripp. I get to see new cards and new decks. Meanwhile, over at Trump - "Let me put in 2 new cards into Handlock and try hard."
Except they draw again after the ambush like burrowing mine. Otherwise it would be OP af. Due to this, you're playing the same mil deck with a high chance to happen upon another win condition or at least stupid value.
+Terioth What you're describing would be a fatigue deck, where they actually draw the card, and your goal is to stay alive, NOT kill their cards (though it could be a good thing, dont get me wrong).
If you're playin a MILL deck, when the ambush gets discarded (not drawn, there is a difference), you DO NOT get the minion, and they DO NOT draw a second card. Thus, if you MILL with ambushes, you are getting negative synergy like Kripp stated.
In any mil deck, way more cards are drawn than discarded and, hence, more ambushes are drawn than discarded. This means the highest chance occurrence of Beneath the Grounds is getting 2 of the 3 ambushes drawn which means my original statement is correct. It doesn't need to be a 12/12 for 3 to be OP. 8/8 is still very OP, especially when combo'd with other overbudgeted mil rogue cards like Deathbringer, Dancing Swords, and Mukla. You can take away slightly from one win condition to fully establish another. Any other way of thinking is functional fixedness.
+Terioth "You can take away slightly from one win condition to fully establish another" Finally someone who gets it! I have seen, in my own mill/fatigue deck, which runs two BtG's, that having just a ass ton of nerubians wins the game quite often... In my opinion, the risk & or dis-synergy of this card is far outweighed by the benefit and alternate win path it provides. .... I guess I think of it like this as well: If I mill the ambush I'm sad, but at least I'm able to mill and probably am winning (because I'm able to mill) if I'm not able to mill (perhaps for lack of combo pieces) I don't just auto-lose. I have another way to come back!
I've been tuning a deck that is something like this. A dragon base, but with 2x preps, saps and a few other spells. I had some hilarious games where they drew into 2-4 Ambushes directly in a row.
Beneath the Grounds doesn't interfere with mill rogue, it works like the mines in the iron juggernaut. After they are drawn they also draw the next card in the deck.
otherwise you'd deny card draw and that'd be way to OP
He couldn't think of one 4 mana taunt lol TASDINGOOOO ANYBODY??
Love you Kripp!
i had a deck of similar concept. I put molten giants zombie chow and fairy dragon instead of the legendaries/one drop and had a ton of fun with it. beneath the grounds wasnt as good as i expected, but the deck itself was pretty fun
I've actually been playing Mill Rogue with Beneath the Grounds and the Nerubians dont get burned when a player has a full hand, the Ambush activates and a new card is drawn, which is then burned. So drawing a Nerubian isn't actually the same draw mechanic as a normal draw, this also applies to fatigue damage. If your last card is an Ambush and you draw it, you will still take 1 fatigue damage. To conclude Beneath the Grounds is a very viable card in Mill Rogue.
"4 mana taunt... can't think of one"... Nice one Kripp
Taz'dingo
@Kripparrian - Beneath the grounds doesn't make it harder to mill your opponent, those cards are drawn just like the mine from Juggernaut - it gets drawn, the effect triggers and then you draw another card.
+Kantrooo
However if the card is burned, then no nerubian is summoned and it replaces the card burn.
So it makes it harder to burn the cards + it isn't necessarily more likely that it will trigger.
Or that is what kripp thinks.
Beneath the grounds is definitly good in a mill rogue. You just have to be careful since the ambush makes your opponent draw UNLESS the card get discared so the best things to do is to play it when you are not going to have any opportunity to discard a lot of cards, It always happen: turn one against a face hunter, when you reach fatigue against an handlock. Actually I play mill rogue a lot and you can still discard one or two ambush against a midrange and still win the game later, you are just going to draw one or two fatigue card
about beneth the ground: when ambush is drawn, a 4/4 is drawn AND new card is always drawn, So it actually doesnt at all factor in mill deck ( well, except that you get a semi-free body on board) so its actually ok if you make your oponent draw cards it actually combos, his actual drawing card potential is the same, and you have more probability to get a 4/4 if you make your oponent draw cards
other thing is that I'd put one beneath the grounds into tempo rogue, mainly because if you happen to have free board at any point in game it good to play this card without any repercussions, and getting 4/4 makes your oponent have to answer it most of the times ( since you can combo it easily with tinker oil), and that can shift tempo into your favor. Of course it is only viable if you dont have better card ( for me, i have it instead of thalnos, because that is 1200 dust cheaper :P )
Kripp, I hear the statistics talk alot on your streamers forums. The term you are looking for is the price of variance (known as the sharpe ratio in statistics) which is value per unit of variance. Its the added value you obtain for decreasing the consistency of the deck.
Beneath the Grounds could possibly work in a Warlock-heavy meta. Both Zoo and Handlock draw a crap ton of cards, and the 4/4's should be able to trade 2 for 1 in most cases, especially since your opponent won't expect when the Nerubian will be summoned so he won't have the right cards at the right moment to deal with them. The 4/4's might be slightly less impactful against Handlocks, but will still come in handy versus Giants, I think.
I'm going to point out that BTG works better in Mill Rogue than you would think. Mill falters against aggressive decks because it lacks board presence and drawing cards for the opponent is really bad; BTG solves both those problems. Second, it doesn't actually add cards to their deck, because when they draw Ambush, they also draw one of their own cards.
Now it's true that it fails when you mill off the Ambushes, but you can't win 'em all. I had a hilarious match where I used Prep+BTG on turn 1, then my Hunter opponent drew two Ambushes on his turn 1. He conceded.
Holy shit i just thought about if kripp already tried beneath the grounds and suddenly this video pops up in my subscriptions
it is in theor for Oil Rogue... its a one card slot to get three minions that can attack on your turn and mkes your opponent have to del with something extra or face the oil burst.
FYI Kripp, I'm pretty sure that Beneath the Grounds Makes the opponent draw another card after the Nerubian is summoned, so the effect on a mill deck is still null.
Kripp the ambush is great in mill because it does make them draw when they draw it so it cycles through their deck.
I love that card solely for it's quote "AAAAHOOOOBLIVION AWAITS YOU!"
I think beneath the grounds fits into some kind of a stax type deck with things like mana wraith and naru'abar weblord, if something like that is evening build able in hearthstone. Probably not enough taxing effects yet to make it work.
actually getting value from dark iron skulker, god damn dude you really are a legend
Was just sitting here, waiting for this exact video to come out :P
Beneath the grounds actually makes them draw another card, so you still mill them just as well.
beneath the ground works fine with mill rogue because the nerubian card they draw makes them draw an extra card
You know the little button that allows you to skip youtube commercial's after 5 seconds ? I suggest adding a similar option to all of the kripp's video, allowing people to avoid the kripp and to save their life...
Btw, 7:29 to skip the kripp
I believe that Beneath the Grounds would work well in a mill hybrid.
I think Prep -> Beneath the Grounds is pretty good. If it's early in the game, you should always play something else on turn 3, but if you can prep it, it's fine early, if not then leave it for later. It's high RNG, but if you get 3 4/4s for 3 mana, that's ridiculous. You just need a very good control deck and I think the card is decent. Kripp is too obsessed with immediate value. He was highly critical of Gang Up for the same reason - you get nothing when it's played, but you get 3 copies of a card of your choice for 2 mana, which is insane. and why the card is so common now.
+QuantumBraced I think, i might have encountered mill rogue once in early BRM. So, it might actually be not that common. And dealing 2 damage to the enemy's face for 0 mana + getting a Card back to your Hand also sounds pretty good, but headcrack is still a crappy Card. As it turns out prepping almost everything else is much better.And immediate value is very important, since snowballing is a very common Thing in Hearthstone. So you pay a big Investment of 3 mana. Usually you would break even at the first nerubian, but since you already fell behind it actually doesn't. And the later your Investment profits, the bigger the Profit has to be and that's just not the case with this Card.
Ambush is awesome in fatigue rouge because you can be sure your opponet draws it
Beneath the grounds is a win condition for mill rogue when they have no cards late assuring victory if they don't have ten cards in their hands or they have lethal but u know it just keeps drawing so if used right gains immediate value
the Gadgetzan Jouster can also tell you what deck your opponent is using as well
28:53 HufferNudes has come online LMAO!
30:10 You heard it here first guys, Anub'Arak is the ultimate grindr card.
26:20 - Pretty insane Dark Iron Skulker.
Actually, when someone draws an ambush, they draw an additional card, so it doesn't really affect the deck size.
chillmaw should freeze anything that survives. also beneath the grounds should put 2 ambushes in opponent's deck and just straight up spawn a 4/4 for you on your side of the board, or at least an egg
12:07 that voice crack
its ability to create decks and amazing
Kripp could make just about any obscure card somewhat competitive.
It doesn't have negative synergy with mill. If you're opponent is in fatigue you get 3-6 Nerubians guaranteed, it's a great finisher for mill.
Crafting golden Anub'arak today he's so op I mean come on look at that endless Nerubian play he is so fun and awesome
I was waiting for this video ever since that small blunder in the TGT card reveal vid. xD
Alright, you did it. You made the already bad control rogue even worse by putting in dragon synergies!
Yaaay!
Dat Skulker in game 3 tho Kreygasm.
Suddenly, Anub'Arak doesn't suck, now does he?
erm i believe that when they draw an ambush that doesn't count as they draw fro that turn, they still draw another card, so its not like your giving your opponent and extra three cards, and if they draw it with a full hand it doesn't get discarded, you still get your 4/4 and the card they draw after the ambush get discarded. blizz obviously would have thought about mill rogue when they designed the card.
A rogue tried to run this kind of deck on me in constructed against my warrior and I only drew one Nerubian that was quickly dispatched by what was already on the board. He tried playing draw cards but drew the mines I put into his deck instead from my Iron Juggernaut/Youthful Brewmaster combo.
Yesterday i drafted a rogue deck using HearthArena for experimental purposes. HA managed to decline good tempo cards and build a slow "control" deck with a high card quality. It also took Anub'arak over Van Cleef himself. I decided "why not, let's see how good it is". Literally all it did in 11 games i played with the deck was eating a Polymorph, even though the deck was slow. Never again.
yeah it seems like dark iron skulker is a pretty good card now since there are lot of token creatures now, flood the board is the new meta
This is a mechanism that blizzard needs to fix.
Normal draw phase = Draw a card then put it into your hand.
Otherwise it's draw a card and discard if your hand exceeds 10 cards.
When your hand is not full and you "draw" the ambush you never put it into your hand. So by blizzard's logic, you shouldn't even get a 4/4 when the opponent draws the card, because you don't actually draw it, but discard it.
I don't know why but my RNG with beneath the grounds is insane, I've never had a game where ambush isn't been top decked at least once the turn I play it, but I can understand why it's considered bad, but to me it's amazing cause my RNG with that card is freaking nuts
Give Anub'arak COMBO: Charge (Since he's 9, you'll need low level spells or minions to trigger it so it should be a good prerequisite) and make Beneath the ground not make them draw after drawing it or make it cost less since it's big RNG.
I tried this deck out and it's not that bad for me + love the nerubians
You've got to support Arashi for not conceding after his Mana Tide + Elemental Destruction combo (unless it was just a flashy way to destroy the card).
Enyoj the games
:))))))
And I'll see you guys tomorrow. - My favourite part in every kripp video
Yo Kirpp, when are you going to bump up the shit quality on these videos? Why 720?
+B0st0nBru1ns Not like 1080p or higher would change much.
He hit legend, 720p is the legend quality
+B0st0nBru1ns I agree, he needs to just sharpen up the image quality a touch :)
60fps hearthstone pls
plz 4K 120 fps tetris next tiem
omg i made this same deck -a few cards... but youre right kripp, it sucks... but its fun.
Hey Kripp, I love to mess around with shitty decks and experience the fun moments, like you said, learn why they're bad and become better. I suggest trying out DivineShield/Taunt on Paly, and +1/+1 with Paly too
I'm still convinced Rogue didn't get a single card that isn't a niche gimmick in the entire TGT set
+Nate Puterbaugh It is sadly a true statement about how Rogues everywhere got bitchslapped and have to work with their old tools still.
Well, hope that changes when Naxxramas comes out.
+Nate Puterbaugh Buccaneer isn't bad.
+Nate Puterbaugh well, even in wow all blizzard did was nerf rogues, why change that with hearthstone?
+John Smith because rogues are soooooo fun to play against 4Head
+Nate Puterbaugh Pirate decks are ALMOST viable right now, at least.
coldlight oracle plus beneath the ground. nuff said
this card works perfectly in oil rogue
I put it in Mill rogue... but play it when they have less than 5 cards left... next turn I typically get at least one. I've gotten all 3 before.
I honestly think beneath the grounds has POSITIVE synergy with Mill Rogue, at least the way i'm playing it. Everyone has their own opinions though.
Beneath the grounds works with mill. Even if they have a full hand and draw an ambush you still get a 4/4. Just search for a mill rogue deck and see it for yourself.
nope, I played against one and drew a ambush card with a full hand, it just disappeared and they didn't get anything
+ZCPL17 i played against a rogue and he milled one of the ambushes. He didn't get the 4/4.
+ZCPL17 Burrowing mines don't work if milled, why would these?
+ZCPL17 y u lie to us. It's already been proven that it doesn't work
+maurits meijers "And beneath the grounds delivers board presence which isnt a mill rogue´s purpose"
this is literally the stupidest thing i have seen today. think of each creature like a 4 damage kill spell, and removal magnet.
and a fatigue deck rather than a mill deck is what this card's made for, i think an agro/fatigue deck would be best.
I heard there was a decent Oil rouge with beneath the grounds in it.
"chat said it's ebola" sums up twitch in 4 words :))) god damn it i love it tho' , i laughed so many times because of twitch chat :))
OMG Always when i'm watching his videos i thinking what he says at the end "and see you guys....what?" pls answer, is killing me X'D
(sorry for my english yup)
anub'rak plus kel'thuzad would be interesting
*having played gang-up mill rogue with beneath the grounds I can say this :*
Having the card milled in mill rogue does in fact defuse the entire card. However since you will mill around 7 cards it usually ends up destroying only one spiderbro, so its not like this card is completely bad.
The real reason its bad is because its another situational card in a deck full of situational cards. And its an anti-tempo card in a deck where tempo is key. It's just a dead card too often.
The only real use this card has in mill rogue, is to play it as soon as fatigue sets in, at which case it is a guaranteed 12/12 total stats that might die to their AOE that they havent played yet because you don't have anything else worth AOEing in their deck.
Finally, its also kinda a win-more lose-more card. If you have trouble getting things rolling with mill-rogue (the deck will F you over about half the games you play..) , then that will only increase the chance you don't get spiderbros as well.
I'm going to play this deck, OP!
Kripp why isn't beneath the grounds good in mill rouge? When they draw an ambush the opponent draws a card after that. If they didn't you wouldn't be able to get two ambushes in a row. So in effect it's the same as not adding cards to their deck with respect to milling them.
Should have added the game where his opponent draws gets 3 nerubians on Kripp's turn then the next turn 2 more.
Just because Beneath The Grounds doesn't take the place of other cards in your opponent's deck... It doesnt mean there's negative synergy. When an ambush is drawn, it it automatically played, and then a second card is drawn to replace it.
In that sense, your opponent does not have more cards. It automatically cycles, even if your opponent does not want it to.
I can't see why it wouldn't become a great mill rouge card.
+Master Austin
Kripp thinks (other contests this, I don't know), that if an ambush is burned, the ambush is burned instead of the opponents card cancelling the effect.
In other words beneath the grounds makes it harder to burn your opponents deck, and doesn't necessarily provide more nerubians in a mill deck.
Kripparrian, you're wrong... When a neburian is drawn, you put out a 4/4 and draw a new card.
This was fun!
At 20.20 there is a mechanical spider behind kripp
so a couple days after tgt's release I put in gadzcan jouster in my no combo ramp druid, lots of big drops though it would work great and late game zombie chows had screwed me over more than once. LITERALLY first four times I played the card I pulled the other jouster and lost.Got so salty I took it out, haven't played it since. true story.