Most of us can’t afford everything under the sun. The key is to simplify your goals and ask yourself about what kind of stuff means the most for you to collect. That’s what I did. Anyway, glad to see you addressing this, Adam!
My way of collecting is basically, to collect what I want to play only, which really helps to narrow down the scope and expense of it. Plus it also really stops me from getting games that would probably sit on the shelf indefinitely.
The current state of the used market for old games makes me a supporter of remasters and remakes. They help make older titles more accessible to gamers who weren’t around when those games were new and give those who were that at the time an opportunity to revisit them.
Also. I'm 37 years old and started collecting when I was young (think myretrolife). I had no regret selling my collection this last year because I realized recently that it is all just 'stuff'... stuff with memories... but nevertheless, those memories are there even without the physical items. Being alive, which is why I had medical bills, is far more important - since we can't take this stuff with us. I even sold it all at a huge loss, though I REALLY had to come up with the 16K for my bills. I had never planned on selling my private collection that I had been collecting since the late 80s... and I felt "icky' selling it for what I did (to a private collector... not reseller thankfully). What has sickened me about all this is the fact that at one time I had SEVERAL copies of Xenosaga III, Kuon, Haunting Grounds, Skies of Arcadia and Twin Snakes over a few years period (in the late 2000s).... and I sold them on a certain auction site for under $40 each (happily). I've been reselling games since 1996 and probably let go of nearly every rare or expensive game at one time for nothing (and probably bought them for nothing to begin with) - and as an ex-collector and reseller myself... I have become EXTREMELY sick of the 'modern' reseller market. But perhaps I have most become sick of the last 10+ years of 'Hidden Gem' RUclipsrs who have on mass, tricked younger and naive viewers, into thinking all this stuff is rarer than it actually is (and ever was) and convinced them it's worth gold. All while a whole bunch of people in the know are hoarding these titles and trickling them into the market to make it seem like there is a (manufactured) scarcity. Like the Graded Game Market... the Retro Game market is also currently propped up on over a decade of extremely wide-spread and engrained lies. A generation of middle-aged dudes who got back into gaming after 20 years away, and a bunch of 20-year-old kids... none of them aware of what has happened. Believing 'experts' who in reality are charlatans who only got into collecting themselves a decade ago (or less). They amassed massive collections in a short time when the prices where low to have a wall of games behind them in their videos - then later claim that they had 'always' been collecting. They then spew misinformation, and their new viewers over the decade come along and themselves create groups and channels and regurgitate the same stuff. Eventually most people believe the common lies and lies become truths. A few examples of high-profile people selling their games in an auction for a bunch of money - and suddenly Mr. Hidden Gems' 'beloved game collection created out of passion'.... is now an 'insured investment' toward his retirement. He is now the beneficiary of a new speculation market propped up by 'private investment' guys from outside gaming who come in and inflate a market they know nothing about, in hopes of a later windfall. The low-level collectors with expendable money, feed it naturally believing that spending $300 for a Megaman game is a great deal... and the viscous cycle is enforced. The snake eats itself. ...Until 20 years from now, when all of it has crashed to the ground like comic books, baseball cards, beanie babies, and humble figurines... and we find storage lockers and buildings full of these 'rare' games... the literal same unsealed/used/pre-owned copies that were freely circulating in mass, found easily at gamestops, flea markets, yard sales, vintage game site, pawnshops, mom and pops and auction sites - for relatively little money pre-2010.
I agree with most of that you said. But we buy stuff to enjoy as a hobby to distract ourselves from reality or whatever reason. Yes we don't take anything once we leave this world not even the clothes we're wearing. But there's a difference between hoarding and buying something for enjoyment. Regarding medical bills I truly understand how ridiculous expensive it is in the US. Reason as to why I left the US after 23 years and moved to a country with free to affordable medical care. I recommend you do the same if you can afford the move. Because the situation over there with bills and the increase of cost in living will get worse and worse. It won't ever change specially the medical care system.
COVID was definitely an additional factor for 6th gen prices to skyrocket, but it was also just time for them to hit their cycle. I'm lucky that I noticed this trend on my own so I started collecting for 360/PS3 about 4 years ago when they were dirt-cheap. At the moment it's definitely last call for 7th gen before you really start getting priced out in the coming few years. From what I've noticed, games will hit their absolute lowest roughly 12 years after the console first came out, and then start climbing. There's about a five-year window in there where everyone has purged their old stuff to get the shiny new console, but then in five years they'll get old enough to be nostalgic for the good old days and prices will shoot up. The quarter-life crisis as you described so eloquently. So if you want to collect for 8th gen, plan accordingly. :D
What also has to be put into perspective is how mainstream gaming as a hobby has become since that next generation, especially considering that OG Xbox and PS2 are still fairly reasonable while GameCube and Dreamcast certainly aren’t. Of course, availability of stock mixed with demand is what contributes to raised prices (hence why PS2 slims aren’t $25 like Wiis anymore whereas PS2 phat models are to be had for a just little more than the $50 they used to be). We’ll have to be another quarter century of the way through until 360 and PS3 become valuable, just look at how many variations have existed throughout the years (with the PS3 Super Slims and 360 E being about as available as the launch PS4’s and One in the current day) mixed with the fact that gaming as a whole imploys the same tactics from then while being far more driven for profit. If anything I feel the DSi will become quite a nostalgic juggernaut if the homebrewing scene better develops to allow easier installation of DSiWare so it’s more than just a self-booting flash cart when considering the fact so little DSi games were released on physical cartridge, there are many animators who made their beginning on Flipnote Studio for instance. Both the DS and Wii had so much shovelware, and were much more family friendly overall with lots of licensed titles in the mix, so it’s understandable why those haven’t hit their peak quite yet if you think in context of the Atari 2600 example used during the video
it's good to see another experienced collector explain this. I've been collecting since the early 2000s and was lucky enough to catch two transitions which allowed me to buy games that are worth 10-20x now. the final piece of the puzzle is to research libraries, make a list of what you want (or feel need to get before prices go up) and proceed from there. It's not hard to spot which $30 Switch games will be $100+ in a few years.
To all collectors: be willing to be patient, and be willing to buy lesser priced games here and there. Before you know it, you've built yourself a pretty decent collection.
I don't think nestoglia for the NES will ever die down completely. My nephews (8 and 11) have an NES, SNES, N64 and GBA. Not to mention a half dozen ways to emulate these machines. So when they grow up, they'll look back at things like the Switch, but also all the old systems too. They are also addicted to the 1st few gens of pokemon. So the 80s and 90s games will also be a part of their childhood.
This is a new trend exclusive only to Nintendo. I believe Nintendo has its own market. The price for NES systems, N64 systems , SNES and their games hasn’t been going down as opposed to Sega and Atari
Best thing about Retro Game Collecting is how many games are out there. Then you have to ask yourself what appeals to you? Once you find it, then you have to ask is it worth buying? Also being a Retro Collector you don't have to buy right now, it'll still be Retro a month or year from now, so if it's not in your budget now you can always get it later. Every time I think I'm done collecting for a console there is someone posting something on RUclips of a game I've never even heard of before & so the hunt continues.
I feel like the formula of waiting till something becomes old and irrelevant to buy may be changing since most people are more aware of this cycle and I don't think we'll see as many collectibles go through being completely worthless like we have in the past. Too many speculators and investors that have adopted collectibles as an alternative to stocks or real estate.
Yes! I agree with this. Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. Nobody buys anything "to have/keep" anymore. They buy with the intention of "what can I sell this for in 10+ years?"
i agree 100% too many speculators and also many collectors today, so the future is hard to predict on anything in this market. I feel like it was too soon to collect a wiiu fullset about 3-4 years ago. Too many collectors did that. Best time to slowly build that collection is still to come. So many collectors will sell their entire wiiu collection in 10years or sooner. prices will notexplode imo. With everything else i agree with Adam
It makes me sick. Buying retro games used to be about passion for the games themselves, now it’s all about maximizing profit and haggling and scalping, only to hoard games you’ll never play. It’s disgusting, and no one who truly wants to enjoy the game even has a reasonable chance to outside of emulation. I can’t wait until GameCube games go the way of the current NES market in 15 years. lol
Great points and explanation as to the why and when it happens. The ludicrous pricing has stopped me from going to certain gaming conventions. The saddest part is that I would look for these games to actually play them and experience them, while others will just keep them in a collection unused.
Adam is essentially rehashing a very covered topic but there's something about his presentation style that I've always appreciated over the years. It's like he's the little brother I never had that shares the same passion as his big bro. Coincidentally, I think he was born the same year as my younger brother. Even if he's not teaching this old dog a new trick it's still comforting to hear him talk for 20+ minutes about a topic he's very into. Thanks for the content over the years. Cheers dude.
Around 2000 my mom took me and my sister to trade in our Super Nintendo at a local used game shop. They offered us $25, so we would only get $12.50 each. We rejected the offer and I still have that bad boy now at age 34.
Great video, Adam! Can’t believe I missed it when you first uploaded it. I‘d like to add 2 things: 1. Opportunity cost. It may not actually be the wisest choice to buy games when they‘re super worthless, because you may just have it in your collection for 20 years before it appreciates in price. And sure, if you just want to own the game that‘s fine. But if you want to min-max the entire process a little, even in the most conservative index funds, that money will have more than doubled in 20 years. People like to focus on „I bought this game for $5 a decade ago and now it‘s $100! I am so good at this!“ sure, but what about the 100 games you bought that haven’t appreciated at all? You lost 4% on those each year to inflation alone, not even mentioning the money you could have made (and now used to buy other games) if you had just invested it in a more traditional asset. 2. I don‘t believe the whole „people are priced out of the hobby“ for one second. People just want the expensive stuff. I can go to eBay or a local store and buy absolute bangers on PS2 for less than 10€ each. Nobody is priced out of the hobby.
My thoughts: Talking about pricing people out of the market, blame the speculative investors and FOMO influencers. Demand also has a lot to do with it. Just because something's rare does not mean it's valuable. PS2 games from big name franchises (which in no way are rare) hold value because a lot of those franchises are either now dead, or nobody likes the newer entries as much. Why do think so many games get remastered now?
The cheapest consoles are always gonna be from the generation immediately before the current one. I've noticed that when game consoles become "grandfathered," meaning the successor of its successor is released, that's when it usually becomes an expensive collector's item. For example, NES stuff was cheap during the SNES era, but slowly became a collector's item during the N64 era. PS1 stuff was cheap during the PS2 era, but then the prices started climbing during the PS3 era.
Honestly this is very accurate. I got in late on collecting for my favorite console. But I was fortunate to grab a lot of the cheap stuff early.. so I'm just kind of buying my time. There's high-dollar stuff I'll never own so I'll just go with reproductions of those. But yeah in general being a retro gamer has never been better except for pricing.
Here is an example of the cycle using the oldest console, the Magnavox Odyssey, as an example. 1972 - 75: The console is commercially available 1976 - 78: It’s price dramatically drops 1979 - 89: Mostly cheap but remains stagnant and little demand for it 1990 - 98: Nostalgia renaissance, prices for it are booming 1999 - 2014: Prices dramatically decrease again as people now in their 30s move on and sell it and collectors buy it 2015 - Present: Resurgence as people in their 50s or 60s want to relive their childhood now that their kids have left and for retirement life Future: The kids who grew up in the 1970s will all be fully retired and already bought their childhood for their retirement. Prices will likely slowly go down again. Far Future: The Magnaox Odyssey is only being bought by people for historical reasons. However it is rarer than ever. I mean imagine it by its 100th anniversary in 2072.
I think this was a good/accurate breakdown of how prices tend to go. There's one thing that might disrupt the pattern for some consoles, though: The unreliable media of generations 5 and 6. BluRay doesn't scratch easily. Cartridges may very well have a greater lifespan than a person... but man, I sure have been burned a lot by the Discs and DVDs in recent years. Especially PS1. The console itself is unreliable, but the discs seem to scratch easier than anything else I've ever played, too. I think it will become apparent in the next 10 years that collecting for PS1 is not sustainable if you want to actually play the games legitimately. The question is, how will people react? Will everyone just give up, driving the prices down? Or will the scarcity of working games bring the value up? Recently, I repurchased a couple of games for the Turbo/PC Engine Duo that I sold back in early 2020 (Before COVID truly spread everywhere). It cost me $100 less total than I sold them for. I'm still shocked at the deal I got, but it makes me wonder if it's the beginning of a trend. I sure hope so. Would love to start buying Sega CD games. :P
I will admit I'm not a hardcore collector or anything but I do like to collect certain games from my childhood, certain collectibles and toys and stuff from when I was a child. But to be like a hardcore collector I just don't have the money for it.
I had a feeling backwards compatible PS3s would go up in value when the RetroTink 4k comes out, and that's the reason I jailbroke my PS3 slim to play PS2 games. I also wish Sega would release Blood Will Tell on PC.
I'm literally already regretting this. I always wanted a new in box launch day PS3 and I've 100% missed the boat on getting that for anything close to a reasonable price.
I’m in the UK and started seeing GameCube, NES, PSOne and N64 stuff turn up in CEX. I think (in the UK any how) more and more people are trading in their game collections. But you’re right with the ebbs and flows. In the very early 90’s my uncle used to pick up bags full of original Star Wars toys and they were worthless. They raised in Value in the mid 90’s during the rerelease, then a bit more during the prequels. Dropped off a bit after, but now have steadily increased over the years. Most of the collector now are in their 40-50’s and after the top end stuff. Great video Adam.
This is why I buy what I play and keep what I play. Then emulate the older games I'm not gonna going to buy because the prices are too high and my space is limited. Great video as always Adam! I definitely learned a lot and it will help me in the future as I resale. :)
I too never sold any of my games or consoles as a kid because I knew as well that the offers were not in my favour. For me, that translated into only getting a new game on my birthday or Christmas. I did lose out experiencing some gems as they came out, but borrowing from friends and split screen co-op filled the gap! That and renting games.
man a couple of years ago i was so shocked when i saw prices for R-type Delta and many other rare retro games that i own. when we went to vacation i left my day1 ps1 and all the games i had in that house. this was 20years ago. i wish i can get my hands on those physical😉 memories, my uncle recently said that all of our old pc's and retro tech still exists, he put all that stuff into a storage locker because he tore down the old house. so maybe i will be lucky and get back my tech
This is a really fascinating insight to be honest. I'm only in my early 20s, so I've never really seen shifts like this before with demand and the factors that play into it simply due to being too young.
I don't collect games anymore but I do collect movies and the same stuff kinda applies. I think the hardest part going forward is trying to get new people into collecting. Once everything is majority digital, it's almost like you have to go out of your way to become a collector and I really don't know to appeal and promote it to new people.
Luckily I picked up on this trend a few years ago. Started picking up stuff at the bottom of depreciation about 12 years ago and took me till about 4-5 years ago to see the cycle it goes through. Of course there's outside factors and outliers, but almost all gaming stuff goes through it.
Like you said in the video the 7th generation of video game consoles is starting to hit it’s nostalgia renaissance just about now and will inevitably be even more so in a few years like the 6th generation is now. The 8th generation will likely start to hit it’s nostalgia renaissance around the early to mid 2030s and like you said in the video the Wii U will likely be the most expensive of the bunch by that time because it sold poorly and because of brand recognition on top of that among other reasons. I mean some Wii U stuff is already expensive as it is as more people are realizing how valuable it is and will be even more so in the future. The current generation, the 9th generation, won’t hit its nostalgia renaissance until the second half of the 2030s/early to mid 2040s so roughly 2 decades from now. It’s interesting to see what will happen to the very old consoles from the 1st & 2nd generations and where they are now as they are classified as antiques and the generation that grew up with them is now rebuying them again since their kids are moving out and their moving on to retirement.
Great vid and good points, but something I think that's worth considering is how the growing scarcity of physical media for new releases will affect the current initial wave of affordability. It's generally more likely that not only is a release known to be more limited, but the knowledge of that limit is spread fast due to spaces dedicated to monitoring these things online. It's still a great time to pick up Switch/PS4/XboxOne games, but you'll see weird spikes where release scarcity is a known factor. Also, the fact that many prints of a game will only contain a version 1.0 which may exclude content or even possess harmful bugs further complicates the situation. Still, collect physicals for games you care about. What's funny is that the PS4/PS5 gen may eventually become the most valuable ever since print numbers and access to games are becoming more and more restricted.
I was lucky I started buying "retro games" when it wasn't a thing. It's not like one day I woke up and said "I'm going to collect", it happened naturally. I wanted to play the games I never had as a kid, I had my own money, It was the time when people wanted to get rid of older consoles and games, so it was easy to find NES, SNES, Megadrive or N64 games very cheap. it was like making childhood dreams come true, "when I was 9 or 10 my parents would have never bought this for me, but now I have my own money and I can buy all the games I want and I'm going to play them all day!!! " hahaha.
One HUGE factor that is looming over this hobby moreso than other collectibles is how the digital distribution eventuality for every game console will affect the market. There's SO MANY GAMES that just hang in purgatory on consoles that will never get a re-release. That's very unlike anything for music or movie/TV related media, where that can be distributed online in an easier fashion, games require the IP rights holders to all be on the same page, development resources to actually put those games onto modern platforms. It's a really interesting situation on how the market reflects this when the only way to get games is either downloading or streaming. Something also to factor in, reselling has become A LOT more accessible in our lifetimes with the advent of sites like eBay, Amazon, Mercari, etc. 20 years ago it existed, but it wasn't the behemoth that it is today. Those companies driving that push also hasn't helped matters at all as they're trying to make as much money from these hobbies as possible. Outside economic factors also are going to take a part in this hobby as well. Right now, money is tight for a lot of people, things are more expensive than they ever have been especially in the ratio to income levels. I can totally see games dipping in value just because it's a non-necessity and people just can't afford it (kind of similar to what happened the years after 2008, deals were plentiful if you looked back then).
Games' combination of art and music makes many of them a nightmare when it comes to re-releases and remasters, for sure. More importantly though: Physical media is being deliberately driven to extinction and being replaced by predatory digital marketplaces. Many games we've been able to pick up for nothing in the last few years will be trapped in digital purgatory FOREVER here on out. I think physical media as a whole is incredibly undervalued looking forwards.
usually the best time to buy retoro games at least for me is the 2 generation backwards trend as that is usually when they are cheapest, take the PS3 games right now, most of them are at their cheapest as they are old enough that most people dont play em but not old enough for them yet to be retro or more harder to find, same thing for ps2 games when the ps4 was in the lead and ps3 in the lead for ps1. That is why right now im focusing on the PS3 era to collect.
This comment could get extraordinarily long, so apologies for that… I used to be an avid collector. I’ll never claim to have had the biggest or most valuable collection, but I had a collection that I was very proud of. I say “had” because I no longer have it. For context, I’m 32, grew up during the pinnacle of gaming - the late 90’s, early and mid 2000’s and there arguably was never a better time to be a kid-gamer than that timeframe. We were fortunate to have been gifted various consoles and handhelds throughout the years (but not every console) which only paved the road for my longtime love of gaming and collecting. Once I got a job as a freshman in high school, I started spending my measly $7 an hour on building a collection of SNES, GBA, DS, Genesis and GB games primarily. This was the late 2000’s and things were stupid cheap. I remember one of my first eBay purchases was a CIB Super Mario Land for $2.17. Not…kidding… When I graduated college in the mid-2010’s, started making real money, moved out and had expendable income, I really went crazy. I filled in a lot of important parts of my collection like some CIB Super Nintendo, N64 and Gameboy/GBA games and CIB consoles that I really wanted and I started building the collection that I would come to be really proud of. However, I also made some purchases that I am not quite as proud of. This was the height of the Game Chasers era, so I was buying stupid stuff like Little Samson (among other equally as stupid things) for several hundred dollars at the time and I also spent several hundred dollars on console boxes to accompany my loose consoles (I had a thing for console boxes…). At the end of the day, it was several hundred dollars spent on cardboard….cardboard… I’m not proud of any of this. Also, being proud of something means very little if you really have no one to share it with and when that’s the case, it makes you kind of take a step back and ask yourself “what is all of this for?” and the primary factor for asking yourself that question is not as much money as it is TIME! Two years after I graduated, I got married and now had to share a space with someone else and all of their stuff as well. At this point my collecting hobby had spiraled from collecting what I was really interested in and wanted to have in my collection to “shelf collecting”. I live in the upper mid-west. We have ZERO dedicated retro game stores in my entire state (that I’m aware of). Because of that, I had to order basically anything I wanted for retro gaming through eBay or eStarland, so I was having packages show up to the house in droves and it all became very overwhelming. I reached the point in 2020 during the pandemic, being constantly surrounded by the overflow of stuff that I had little-to-no time to use just rotting away on the shelves, that it was just time to wash my hands of it and move on. I decided in 2020 to significantly downsize my collection. Sure the inflating price of games in 2020 certainly aided in making the choice to sell much easier, but ultimately I chose to sell because I just didn’t need it, I no longer felt fulfilled by it, and due to focusing my attention on my wife, dogs and now a baby, I just don’t have the time to play as much as I’d like to, much less all of the random garbage that I accumulated through “shelf collecting”, things I’d never be interested in playing, so I let a bunch of it go. In 2022, I basically finished what I had started and got rid of a good portion of what I had left over. I went from 700 games in 2019 to about 125 today, most of which are just physical Switch games and things I still choose to play today when I do have a few minutes of time. If I’m being honest, though… I still have access to play most of the games that I no longer have physically. With modded NES, SNES, Genesis and PS1 classic editions, a hacked Vita for Vita and PSP games, an Everdrive for my N64, GCLoader in my GameCube, OpenFPGA on the Analogue Pocket, OpenPS2Loader on my PS2 Slim, a hacked new 3DS, and a hacked Wii U and vWii for my Wii U and Wii libraries, I no longer had a need to keep the physical libraries on the shelves. Because of this, I still have very modern and convenient ways to play these games if I choose to without the overwhelmingness of having it all on shelves….and I’m okay with that. Having a digital library doesn’t provide me with any more time to play than I’ve had, so that problem remains, but it’s just so much easier and I have all of these game libraries backed up on multiple external drives and SD cards to prevent risk of losing all of the games like the 3DS and Wii and Wii U games that I painstakingly ripped and converted one-by-one on my own. I definitely feel for anybody trying to get into collecting now. It’s insanely cost prohibitive. I know people want authentic experiences on authentic hardware, and to each their own, but there are a myriad of ways to accomplish playing games using original hardware. Take the GCLoader for example, your whole library on one SD card, no discs, no disc rot, no scratches and resurfacing, still uses the GameCube hardware, controller, memory cards, etc. If I’m playing Luigi’s Mansion or Mario Kart DD on my GameCube, using a Wavebird, I could care less whether there’s a disc spinning inside the console or not - same experience playing the game to me (though it does load marginally faster and obviously makes the already-quiet console that much quieter…). I think we as a gaming society need to stop putting so much emphasis on authenticity and stop frowning so much on the use of modern solutions to play games without needing the whole physical library on the shelf. I think if people feel less pressure about it, they’ll see that it’s okay to not spend thousands of unnecessary dollars just to get the same experience that you can get in other ways. Yes, as a lifelong gamer and collector, I’m advocating for emulation…it’s been a thing for 30 years, it’s hardly a secret anymore and shouldn’t be as taboo as people make it out to be. Not everyone can afford spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to play some of the best games on some of these retro consoles.
It’s why all the 6th generation consoles I DO have are modded in some way (aside from the Dreamcast which I use burned discs, since my model isn’t compatible with the GDEmu) FreeMCBoot, OG Xbox Hardmod, and PicoBoot on the GameCube.
@@SpongeyBubby At the end of the day, time is the one thing you can’t get back, so you kind of have to decide, am I going to spend my time focusing on filling out the shelves, or am I going to spend the time gaming, and if you’re lost in filling the shelves, you have far less time focusing on playing the shelf content anyway… For me, having modded consoles was as much about reclaiming the already limited time I had to dedicate to gaming in any fashion as it was to reclaim the space in my house that was being swallowed. While I respect “authentic” gamers/collectors, I do applaud anybody that makes the leap to just say “I don’t need the stuff, I just want the experience of the games” in whatever form suits them best. Having modded consoles is one of the best decisions I made, and it was actually a really fun learning experience to dig into some of these modding projects, it really was a fun time. There are a lot of great guides on RUclips and the internet in general to keep your modding prowess going if you’re looking to get into more of it. And if you’re looking for something simpler, even something like an Everdrive for your cartridge-based consoles is a really good and easy entry point into the transition from needlessly filling the shelves! And new guides with more efficient methods for things like the 3DS and such are always hitting the web. I wish you all the luck in whatever that next step may be for you, and how ever you choose to play, just enjoy it!
The PlayStation Vita was my teacher for this phenomena. In the last several years the costs of PS Vita games have risen dramatically. The handhelds are still relatively affordable but the games have gone from $10 - $20 to well over $40 - $50 each on average.
@@TNVGAMING yeah, I've come to realize that with time, like Adam said, this is one of these instances where the device didn't have a big impact in the market, it dwindled down then years after Sony decided to pull the plug on it, people now started wanting it back, hence it's price has only creeped up
I collect only for certain systems ( starting with the N64 and ending with original Xbox when it comes to retro ) so I don’t need to hunt for everything ( only buy games I would actually want to play ). And just this week finally got Conker’s bad fur day for a good price. Now am after The Guy game for original Xbox. The funny thing is that there is a small voice in my head that sometimes tries to whisper: sell it all. And then a bigger voice instantly kicks in: don't you dare.
There seems to be a trend over the last few years of influential names in the scene "getting out" and selling off their collections or downsizing, and I hear that a lot from everyday collectors too, but I just seems like the prices are not reflecting that as much as one might suspect. I don't expect everything to become worthless, but a lot of these post-Covid prices are still holding on titles that were previously more low budget. Stuff that you just know is overpriced now, for what it is. If we just got back to pre-Covid, that would be awesome. Not every common B and C tier title justifies $20 - $30, or half of what they were at retail 30 years ago. I'm just not seeing a noteworthy decline for anything 90s era yet, in fact the peak was technically just a few years ago. If you check N64, the average value spiked back up a few months ago to 2020 levels. Idk if it's manipulation, but video game valuation is just weird. It never seems to lose anything.
I love old games i grew up on Sega mega drive, Gameboy,psone Xbox PS2 Ps3 Xbox 360 Nintendo Wii .... But money family and life means more ... I sold my playstation 1,2,3 consoles and games last year... I found here in the UK games just getting more and more expensive I can't have that value sitting around anymore i used the money for playstation 4&5 games and will have great memories of old games but realistically I'll probably just watch twitch or RUclips videos to remind me of them old classics
Very interesting that you brought up the “2nd wave” of people selling their stuff for cheap. I’m not 30 yet, just about to turn 26, but I just had my daughter not to long ago and I don’t have time for games anymore. Maybe 30 min a night throughout the week. Sometimes an hour. I do get a couple hours in on the weekend. Video-games are my lifelong passion but my family comes first before anything else. I refuse to sell my stuff for the same reason you said, I wanna retire and have all my stuff..but at the same time, who knows if any of these systems will work in 30 years from now. Everytime I see a Dreamcast for sale, they’re mostly dead and those lasers won’t last forever. Sad truth is, gaming on original hardware is gonna be very unlikely and the only way to play them, (and I hate to say it) is through emulation.
Pay attention to recessions and massive cost of living increases. Ever since coming out of the big C I've been finding WAAAAAAAAY more rare Sega games coming back onto the market and a lot more stock in general of everything else Sega. Today alone I was in a retro shop and bought up some great games, CiB, awesome condition. The person serving me said a collector had come in and pawned all his collection. I've ran into that scenario so many times since the big C has led to the massive cost of living increase. When things get back to normal, those collectors who sold off their stuff will be looking to get it back certainly. However, I am ENJOYING being able find all the stuff I wanted and had waited years for it to start showing up.
At this point all my original old consoles are faulty or just broken with age and being in storage for 20 years. I would be more inclined to pick up a all in one arcade machine with everything loaded on it that just works and gets the job done and uses HDMI. If game companies cared about old game I would have a option to buy them officially , but I don't so .....
You are spot on with your logic. I've always looked at game collectors being very close to car collectors. There's a time in which they can afford the cars they never could, then some sell, then some get back into it later. But when they die.... those cars die off too. At that point they are close to never seen outside of museums. This will probably happen with things like 2600s. In my mind it comes down to the things you loved as a child and couldn't afford.
Great lecture on when and how to collect! I've been buying lots of 5 and 6 dollar games for xbox, xbox one, 360. I'm mostly trying to buy up games that I'll wind up wanting to play later or have missed out on when they were new. Just recently bought my xbox 360e, xbox one, so I'm building on those libraries. As long as I have a decent representation of what each console was like is fine but mostly it is games I think I'll likely play. I never buys games based on whether I think they'll be worth money down the road.
Adam, you’re honestly my biggest inspiration for getting into and really being interested in retro gaming (there were other RUclipsrs that helped facilitate that but you’re numero uno, so I thank you). With that in mind, you said that WiiU stuff will likely peek in the next 10 years. I was building a collection, had about 1/3 of a complete US set before selling a bunch off over the last year because well… life unfortunately. Would it make sense for me to pick back up the hobby of collecting if I wanted to now or should I just wait for a nice long while? I had a decent strategy to collecting Wii U stuff although I wonder how well it would work now.
My rule is that I only 'collect' something if I have interest in it. If I'm not going to play it, I don't buy it. That dip you talked about with NES and N64 stuff is something I've noticed, and I've just been slowly picking up NES and N64 stuff because of it where it makes sense. I also think one thing that brand awareness will always play a factor in the value of a system. I notice Nintendo systems and games hold a lot more value generally than say the PlayStation or Genesis. The Genesis is an area I also like getting stuff for right now as well. So many games just as good as Nintendo stuff of the time, but people don't value it as highly because of brand awareness. One thing to point out is that some things never completely lose value. There's a reason certain classic/antique cars became highly valued, and will likely never slip below a certain baseline.
I got back into the stuff i grew up with (and stuff i never got a chance to play back in the day) right when the first boom happened during COVID. Thankfully there were ODEs and Flash Carts available since i wasn't interested in collecting just playing on the OG hardware. They were expensive but worth it compared to how much it would be to buy everything individually.
I never purged this stuff, it was just put into storage alongside the rest of my childhood for when I wanted to go back into it. Even stuff I decided to rebuy, it has this moldy sort of mildew scent that’s very reminiscent with the stuff I pull out those bins. Definitely people who have bought this stuff when it used to be commercially available for cheap within that console’s lifespan are now selling it off in order to pay for bills which come with an increased cost of living, and I only feel that trade-ins (besides of the games themselves after you got bored of a title) are more commonplace today as we’re seeing an uptick of with smartphones for instance due to that increased cost as mentioned. These consoles shape a turning point in videogame culture as a whole, innovation was at an all-time high and people are only now going back to the basics because there’s just nothing like it in the current market considering the prominence in lootboxes and microtransactions beyond mountain-loads of DLC and day one patches since you’re only really just paying for the “base price”. Nowadays, most forms of entertainment are only worried about rehashing past successful franchises to incorporate modern trends into with gaming being no different in that regard with how pushed into the mainstream it became. Like it or not, these games aren’t getting any younger so with Dreamcast games in particular being prone to delamination and GameCube games with chipping paint for the disc art, to consider their libraries as out-of-print media would be severely an understatement. Not to mention the current trend of videos speaking about how print media is slowly disappearing off store shelves and that you can’t necessarily sell off digital games unless it’s the entire account, which aren’t truly owned to begin with.
I’m starting to piece together a GameCube collection, but it is a very daunting task indeed. I waited too long. Games that used to be $40 are now $70, or similar scales upwards. I don’t know if I expect prices to go down at this point, so I’m not waiting on it. Dreamcast is another one I want to get into but it’s been going up somewhat, same with PS1 for a while. N64 is ironically more easily collectible than GameCube at this point. I can’t really collect everything at once, I tend to focus on one system at any given time, and it’s overwhelming when it takes so long due to cost alone. Wii U is going to be crazy in 10 years due to general hardware scarcity and disc rot being so prominent, but I don’t expect to invest in it because I don’t like the odds of reliability for the above reasons.
Really enjoyed this video and the breakdown with how this happens in the waves. The knowledge shared here is fantastic and very insightful for collectors and those who are potentially looking to get into it. As someone who's been collecting heavily these past few years I can definitely see the nostalgic factor as it's significantly affected my collecting habits. The 7th gen is where it's at right now, things are still relatively cheap but it's only a matter of time before that starts to climb. Heck, some PS3 games are pretty up there already.
I'm most certainly part of the flow. I'm out here getting all my childhood stuff back from 6th and 7th gen. I even have a specific list to look out for of games I had, and of course getting other stuff I never got to try. It's really interesting
Interesting video 👍 I agree with your perspective on timing buying/collecting. Right now is DEFINITELY the time to be buying PS3 & PS4 stuff because they're both still insanely cheap.
The weird thing throwing off the retro game market will ultimately be two factors: digital games and the fact games companies are doing better jobs at managing their back catalogues. There will be people who will bid up Xbox 360 games but they will have a far more difficult time with Xbox One games. There will be the further problem that the 2010s had a real shift towards PC gaming that, thanks to Steam, was far more digital-friendly than console. And since companies are doing a better job with their back catalogues, most of the games that people will want to buy will still be able to be purchased either in the original version or a remaster. There won't be people trying to bid up the price of Xbox 360 copies of Skyrim like people did with Super Mario Bros on the NES not because there are a ton of copies laying around, but because people can still buy the game new today.
Good video. This doesn't just apply to video games. I saw that happen with turn of the century Singer foot pedal sewing machines. Just wish I would have had the foresight to buy a lot of Atari, Coleco and Intellivision stuff in the mid to late eighties.
On a serious note, I think the rise in popularity and prices is a good thing. The more people involved the more advancements and improvements in retro tech. More people involved in the community. Things like everdrives and odes. Mister. Emulation. Retro bits licensed rereleases. Newer AV mods or adapters. New wireless controllers. Retro tinks. Etc etc. The amount of cool things coming out to enjoy retro games outweighs the price factor of classic games.
Physical media is bound to die out, or at least cease to be the norm, sooner or later. Gotta wonder how that will factor in to the price of physical games.
100% agreed on 'the best time is when its on its way out' between a ton of the late-era NES stuff that came out after the SNES launched, and yeah stuff like Panzer Dragoon Saga on Saturn, looking at what those go for now compared to then that's definitely the best advice IMHO. We may be in the market for 2600 stuff when the plus launches so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. and of course there's still the matter of the mrs. wanting a dreamcast, so if things line up that might be our christmas, haha.
Currently collecting the original Xbox, started a few months ago and already have the heavy hitters I wanted so moving forward every game is under $30.
I only buy games on PC, because they are usually cheap and I enjoy the benefits of online gaming and achievements. I don't have the space or money for physical games, even though I wish I could, and already have my plate full with collecting Blu Rays and DVDs, so, all I buy is consoles and accessories, if it's a newer console I will mod it, if it's older, I use a flashcart. For 8, 16 and some 32 bit games, I use a NES Classic Edition.
Yeah I grew up in the ps2- 360 era and I remember when the PS4/xone were announced it was when I decided to collect for 6th Gen stuff since it was so obviously cheap and people at the time were just throwing them away. It's been 10 years since but I've also similarly kept the mindset of "well that's. $5 game when in reality it's a $30 now and more." I've been priced out of my nostalgia and hobby now but I was able to take a step back and think about what I really wanted out of my collection despite buying most of it for dirt cheap back in the day and selling some of it off. For now I casually collect switch releases since that's the only platform I have time for but I will keep watch on it whenever the next Nintendo console comes out.
Model Trains are a perfect example of the deadest point you reference. My best friends dad collected model trains from the 40’s/50’s , they’ve been worthless for awhile now
I'm about to turn 56 in January and I still have my original Sega Genesis,Sega CD,32X and a ton of games,two Sega Dreamcast with a bunch of games and my X-BOX 360,with a bunch of games.I had the Atari 2600,Colecovision,Intellivision,Nintendo 64,Game Cube,Playstation 2,but gave those consoles away to my Nieces and Nephews when they were young kids,unfortunately they don't have them anymore.I've been playing video games since the 70's,I haven't brought a new system since the 360 and I haven't played any games since maybe 2012.I still love video games though.
Great video. One thing that I am thinking about though is how the online aspect of games will change the equation. Day one patches, online multiplayer (or if you are unlucky, online single player), etc. It might be the case that some games are barely playable even with the disc and system in the future. That was not the case back in the day.
The ebbs & flows you describe is a great example of when nobody cares, to suddenly everybody wanting the same retro game & prices become stupid. I used to collect but stopped years ago when the hobby was becoming more expensive than it should be. In the late 2000s I stopped collecting N64 & PS1 stuff when the nostalgia really hit hard for those systems. Then I stopped collecting for PS2 in the early 2010s when the nostalgia was also starting to hit that, though not as bad as the pandemic prices but still noticed an increase. In the end I gave up retro collecting. I still buy for what I deem non-retro systems so far, such as PS3, PS4, etc... as the prices are the best I have seen but also know that nostlagia will also hit those systems at some point in the near future because I have learned my lessons from the past. Now anything retro I play is on flashcarts, emulators, remasters & re-released ports. Thankfully those options can keep me gaming retro when the original hardware & software is just too much to get.
I'm not sure how much 360 nostalgia is gonna affect they price of physical X360 copies, since people can still play a lot of the popular 360 games in their XSX and XSS, and gamepass contains a lot of those games, preventing your average joe from buying those games.
Just listened to the whole video on my way to work :) IMO i think games are going to permanently be more expensive, we are heading to an all digital future and i think that is going to push a lot of people to collect out of nostalgia reasons. Physical games will be such an archaeic form that most gamers will buy them to remember their childhood or the next generation of kids who will grow up on ps6 and xbox series gamepass streaming that they will get really unterested in how games used to work.
Very, very good points. I just want to add a few things: in my case, living in eastern Europe, the problem was that, at the time games were a niche product and didn't penetrate the market like in the western part of the world. Second problem, was that I was a kid, I had no money, and my parents struggled enough with daily life expenses, so spending money on games or hardware for gaming wasn't in the cards, even older generations, theoretical worthless ones. Also game collecting and nostalgia for such a hobby (games) wasn't even a thing back then. I feel that nowadays are way too many people more or less invested in this hobby and became a mainstream hobby instead of a niche one. Because it's cool. Back in the day, you were a nerd if you played video games, something to make fun of and not cool. When you have so many people interested in a thing like this, obviously the demand will exceed the offer. And that's how the price goes up. Adding to all of this, the ever present scalpers, that got into this not for the love of games, or the preservation aspect, but simple good ol' money. Many times, I've stopped friends or acquaintances from getting ripped off on ebay or whatnot. "I'll lend you the game, play it as much as you want, and when you're bored with it, bring it back. You keep your hard earned money and it doesn't collect dust on the shelf". Because a gamer primarily wants to play the game, collectors are entirely another subject. And for a gamer to pay and an arm and a leg just to enjoy an older game, in my book at least, it's outrageous. But if the price is right, and the space permits it, then sure, by all means buy yourself a copy. I found that the best plan, for me at least, was to get those 15 games I really loved, and nothing else. Got rid of everything else years ago, even if it's a really good game. Except my Game Gear and Dreamcast, and a few games for these systems, kept nothing. Keep doing these Adam, it's always a pleasure to hear you speak.
My friend's dad has a commodore 64 setup, which lines up perfectly with the empty nest phase you talked about. Kind of funny that way. Now is also a good time to get on those ps4 pro-xbox one x systems since the new systems are saturating the market, but they are still a great way to play some older 8th gen titles. That actually brings up another point, 8th gen doesn't seem like it's going to be affected by this pattern as much since compatibility is pretty universal now, and the games are all digital anyway. When 8th gen nostalgia hits it's peak, most people will probably just download that old game form the server onto a ps6, or old ps5 to get their nostalgia fix.
Piracy. Pirate them. Use ODEs on original hardware with HDMI mods or plugins. Use flash carts. The least impressive thing I see in retro game videos is the creator sat in front of a wall of NES gray.
Interesting discussion here Adam. The older I get and further we get away from the 1-5th generation of gaming systems, the more I think that Emulation/SD Card storage cartridges/ODEs, so basically using digital copies of games (I'm not condoning piracy, but you could make an arguement, not my point though) are the way of getting resonable access to these systems. The other issue is getting a good quality system to play these games on, whether it be a legit console, or an FPGA solution for a reasonable cost.. The wave analogy is dead on. And it will be interesting to see after the Atari 2600 people start passing on what happens to that era of games. And how they will be treated by those fols left behind. But if I were to say anything to anybody about getting these games. PLEASE make sure that a preserved copy of everything game you own is digitized. Because NOTHING PHYSICAL WILL LAST FOREVER unless properly cared for. It just frightens me the day that the it's only sold digitally only is coming up very soon. It's making piracy more and more necessary.
As someone with thousands of games I often daydream about a piece of kit I can just quickly wave a disc over and get a fully digitised copy. So much of that stuff is proprietary or full of anti-piracy measures. Copying Blu-Ray discs is even harder as the hardware to do it is ITSELF becoming scarce and outdated.
I've often wondered if the "premium" games in any generation will become more valuable when gamers realize they don't "own" their always online, drm riddled games. Maybe 10 years after Sony & Microsoft have printed their last disk.
"Don't touch a hot stove" syndrome - all the kids want digital goods but don't have the experience or the time frame to understand that all these companies will eventually rugpull you HARD, and digital-only people just won't listen. Until it affects them personally. And they realise their "collection" is subject to being revoked at any time. To me personally, games that are online-only and packed with DRM and that cannot be exchanged *simply hold no value*. None. They are just not worth anything at all. And that's why I can't justify spending more than pennies on any of them. The last generation of modern-ish games that are *complete on disc*, fully playable without patches, and that cannot be confiscated or revoked by fickle license holders are WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD, in my opinion. People just don't realise it yet. Physical media will be incredibly valuable for all kinds of reasons going forward.
Panzer Dragoon Saga was almost not available at release. Even specialty game shops didn't really carry it over here, or maybe just one copy. There are more examples of these types of games, but I agree on the base principal, that people generally have the change to buy something when it was new.
Funny you mention that: my girlfriend and I actually did get metal slug X on my NeoGeo; where it usually goes for five grand, I’ve got lucky and got it for $600. Yep; NeoGeo ain’t cheap. Getting lucky involves a trick called “vulturing”; and a little of the law of attraction never hurt either.
im buying early switch and xbox one stuff especially right now its very cheap to do so outside of like nintendos stuff just from the way the market works toward stuff that is around 8 to 10 years old vs it being over 20 years old
I remember picking up a Wii U back in fall of 2018 for about $80 CAD and regretting not getting the 32GB Model since the 8GB model I got only had about 3GB of usable space and I had to buy a flash card and hard drive. If only I had coughed up the extra $20-$30 I wouldn't have to worry so much about space issues. Nevertheless I'm still gratful I even got one so cheap in the first place especially since they arenow hard to come by. Additionally, I was shocked when a couple of years ago Gamestop decided to get rid of the their remaining inventory of Wii U games by pricing every used game they had for just $1 CAD. I immediately got Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Rayman Legends, Star Fox Zero and several other titles for less than the price of an annual subscription to Nintendo Switch Online which was just incredible. I remember regretting not just picking every game they had since it was just $1 but ultimately I chose not to because I didn't want to have a bunch of shovelware in my collection.
If I had to pinpoint the exact best time to buy a console and its games/accessories, it would be at the release of the "grandchild" generation; e.g. the best time to buy PS3 stuff (and same-gen like 360 & Wii) would have been right after PS5's release. You don't really want to buy PS3 stuff during PS4 era because there's still a mainstream used market at GameStop, pawn stores, etc. for people who can't afford the newest consoles and are still on the previous-gen (just like PS4 and XB1 stuff today). But by the time PS5 comes out, there's no longer a market for people still on PS3; sales for that generation are the lowest they will ever get. That's the time to pounce.
Great and interesting vid. I would love to see a kind of retrospective style series of vids of consoles/gens history/future predictions relating to when was/is the best time to buy. Just a thought
To me personally a little something that plays a part is also how well the system emulates. NES, SNES, MD, PS1 etc emulates pretty well on cheap handhelds now. Am I willing to pick up an original SNES, hook it up to the space-taking CRT (because it needs to be an old CRT) to play a very expensive cartridge (that I have to look up and pay and wait for) while plopping my ass down and being stationary when I can emulate it with no effort on the go AND get a bunch of upgrades to the gameplay? I will go with emulation personally (as someone with a pretty huge retro collection🙄). This is why I only bought the Switch as my first new console again since the original Xbox. I collect physical for it while that may not be economically sound (due to it being very possible to emulate as well). Maybe I just indirectly want to fund physical cartridges to let manufacturers see that it's viable (digital only SUCKS) idk. Also the cartridges are just so tasty... The heros to me now are the people who come up with the new emulation solutions (multiplayer on a handheld each for retro systems is pretty awesome) and the ones who preserve scans of old manuals and cartridges + indie creators. The big gaming companies obviously don't care anymore. Seems this time instead of a crash, those happened before I was around, it'll be more of a slow decline.
I remember I came across the Saturn complete in box for $50 then..got rid of it. Bought the entire Silent Hill series for $35 then..got it of them. Wish I had someone to tell me "Don't get rid of it, it's going to be hard to get and hard to fine later."
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Most of us can’t afford everything under the sun. The key is to simplify your goals and ask yourself about what kind of stuff means the most for you to collect. That’s what I did. Anyway, glad to see you addressing this, Adam!
No shame in emulating. And if you want to use orginal hardware, just get a man Everdrive or a multicart.
This is the best statement about the market and the buyer. Stay within income and set goals that can be obtained.
I just collect the games that I personally care for and call it a collection
My way of collecting is basically, to collect what I want to play only, which really helps to narrow down the scope and expense of it.
Plus it also really stops me from getting games that would probably sit on the shelf indefinitely.
same here, i'm not a shelf collector. Only games I want to play. nothing extra.
The current state of the used market for old games makes me a supporter of remasters and remakes. They help make older titles more accessible to gamers who weren’t around when those games were new and give those who were that at the time an opportunity to revisit them.
Yeah I noticed after those remasters that the price of the original games drop online.
Also. I'm 37 years old and started collecting when I was young (think myretrolife). I had no regret selling my collection this last year because I realized recently that it is all just 'stuff'... stuff with memories... but nevertheless, those memories are there even without the physical items. Being alive, which is why I had medical bills, is far more important - since we can't take this stuff with us. I even sold it all at a huge loss, though I REALLY had to come up with the 16K for my bills. I had never planned on selling my private collection that I had been collecting since the late 80s... and I felt "icky' selling it for what I did (to a private collector... not reseller thankfully).
What has sickened me about all this is the fact that at one time I had SEVERAL copies of Xenosaga III, Kuon, Haunting Grounds, Skies of Arcadia and Twin Snakes over a few years period (in the late 2000s).... and I sold them on a certain auction site for under $40 each (happily). I've been reselling games since 1996 and probably let go of nearly every rare or expensive game at one time for nothing (and probably bought them for nothing to begin with) - and as an ex-collector and reseller myself... I have become EXTREMELY sick of the 'modern' reseller market.
But perhaps I have most become sick of the last 10+ years of 'Hidden Gem' RUclipsrs who have on mass, tricked younger and naive viewers, into thinking all this stuff is rarer than it actually is (and ever was) and convinced them it's worth gold. All while a whole bunch of people in the know are hoarding these titles and trickling them into the market to make it seem like there is a (manufactured) scarcity.
Like the Graded Game Market... the Retro Game market is also currently propped up on over a decade of extremely wide-spread and engrained lies. A generation of middle-aged dudes who got back into gaming after 20 years away, and a bunch of 20-year-old kids... none of them aware of what has happened. Believing 'experts' who in reality are charlatans who only got into collecting themselves a decade ago (or less). They amassed massive collections in a short time when the prices where low to have a wall of games behind them in their videos - then later claim that they had 'always' been collecting. They then spew misinformation, and their new viewers over the decade come along and themselves create groups and channels and regurgitate the same stuff. Eventually most people believe the common lies and lies become truths.
A few examples of high-profile people selling their games in an auction for a bunch of money - and suddenly Mr. Hidden Gems' 'beloved game collection created out of passion'.... is now an 'insured investment' toward his retirement. He is now the beneficiary of a new speculation market propped up by 'private investment' guys from outside gaming who come in and inflate a market they know nothing about, in hopes of a later windfall.
The low-level collectors with expendable money, feed it naturally believing that spending $300 for a Megaman game is a great deal... and the viscous cycle is enforced. The snake eats itself.
...Until 20 years from now, when all of it has crashed to the ground like comic books, baseball cards, beanie babies, and humble figurines... and we find storage lockers and buildings full of these 'rare' games... the literal same unsealed/used/pre-owned copies that were freely circulating in mass, found easily at gamestops, flea markets, yard sales, vintage game site, pawnshops, mom and pops and auction sites - for relatively little money pre-2010.
I agree with most of that you said. But we buy stuff to enjoy as a hobby to distract ourselves from reality or whatever reason. Yes we don't take anything once we leave this world not even the clothes we're wearing. But there's a difference between hoarding and buying something for enjoyment.
Regarding medical bills I truly understand how ridiculous expensive it is in the US. Reason as to why I left the US after 23 years and moved to a country with free to affordable medical care. I recommend you do the same if you can afford the move. Because the situation over there with bills and the increase of cost in living will get worse and worse. It won't ever change specially the medical care system.
@@shazmanbound1496True. There’s too much profit for it or change.
COVID was definitely an additional factor for 6th gen prices to skyrocket, but it was also just time for them to hit their cycle. I'm lucky that I noticed this trend on my own so I started collecting for 360/PS3 about 4 years ago when they were dirt-cheap. At the moment it's definitely last call for 7th gen before you really start getting priced out in the coming few years. From what I've noticed, games will hit their absolute lowest roughly 12 years after the console first came out, and then start climbing. There's about a five-year window in there where everyone has purged their old stuff to get the shiny new console, but then in five years they'll get old enough to be nostalgic for the good old days and prices will shoot up. The quarter-life crisis as you described so eloquently. So if you want to collect for 8th gen, plan accordingly. :D
Mostly cause of reseller, too. Even cds have been skyrocketing in price, too. I see people scanning games to see if it's worth money.
@@ancientmariner6042because of the quality reducing by the year on discs for disc rot is real and how became unplayable too
I got a bunch of Dreamcast and Saturn games at The Exchange right before COVID and man am i happy i did. lol
What also has to be put into perspective is how mainstream gaming as a hobby has become since that next generation, especially considering that OG Xbox and PS2 are still fairly reasonable while GameCube and Dreamcast certainly aren’t. Of course, availability of stock mixed with demand is what contributes to raised prices (hence why PS2 slims aren’t $25 like Wiis anymore whereas PS2 phat models are to be had for a just little more than the $50 they used to be). We’ll have to be another quarter century of the way through until 360 and PS3 become valuable, just look at how many variations have existed throughout the years (with the PS3 Super Slims and 360 E being about as available as the launch PS4’s and One in the current day) mixed with the fact that gaming as a whole imploys the same tactics from then while being far more driven for profit. If anything I feel the DSi will become quite a nostalgic juggernaut if the homebrewing scene better develops to allow easier installation of DSiWare so it’s more than just a self-booting flash cart when considering the fact so little DSi games were released on physical cartridge, there are many animators who made their beginning on Flipnote Studio for instance. Both the DS and Wii had so much shovelware, and were much more family friendly overall with lots of licensed titles in the mix, so it’s understandable why those haven’t hit their peak quite yet if you think in context of the Atari 2600 example used during the video
it's good to see another experienced collector explain this. I've been collecting since the early 2000s and was lucky enough to catch two transitions which allowed me to buy games that are worth 10-20x now. the final piece of the puzzle is to research libraries, make a list of what you want (or feel need to get before prices go up) and proceed from there. It's not hard to spot which $30 Switch games will be $100+ in a few years.
To all collectors: be willing to be patient, and be willing to buy lesser priced games here and there. Before you know it, you've built yourself a pretty decent collection.
Very good advice.
Yup, at least where I live, prices are all over the place. With patience it’s not expensive at all
I don't think nestoglia for the NES will ever die down completely.
My nephews (8 and 11) have an NES, SNES, N64 and GBA. Not to mention a half dozen ways to emulate these machines.
So when they grow up, they'll look back at things like the Switch, but also all the old systems too.
They are also addicted to the 1st few gens of pokemon. So the 80s and 90s games will also be a part of their childhood.
This is a new trend exclusive only to Nintendo. I believe Nintendo has its own market. The price for NES systems, N64 systems , SNES and their games hasn’t been going down as opposed to Sega and Atari
Best thing about Retro Game Collecting is how many games are out there. Then you have to ask yourself what appeals to you? Once you find it, then you have to ask is it worth buying? Also being a Retro Collector you don't have to buy right now, it'll still be Retro a month or year from now, so if it's not in your budget now you can always get it later. Every time I think I'm done collecting for a console there is someone posting something on RUclips of a game I've never even heard of before & so the hunt continues.
I feel like the formula of waiting till something becomes old and irrelevant to buy may be changing since most people are more aware of this cycle and I don't think we'll see as many collectibles go through being completely worthless like we have in the past. Too many speculators and investors that have adopted collectibles as an alternative to stocks or real estate.
Yes! I agree with this. Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. Nobody buys anything "to have/keep" anymore. They buy with the intention of "what can I sell this for in 10+ years?"
i agree 100%
too many speculators and also many collectors today, so the future is hard to predict on anything in this market. I feel like it was too soon to collect a wiiu fullset about 3-4 years ago. Too many collectors did that. Best time to slowly build that collection is still to come. So many collectors will sell their entire wiiu collection in 10years or sooner. prices will notexplode imo. With everything else i agree with Adam
It makes me sick. Buying retro games used to be about passion for the games themselves, now it’s all about maximizing profit and haggling and scalping, only to hoard games you’ll never play. It’s disgusting, and no one who truly wants to enjoy the game even has a reasonable chance to outside of emulation. I can’t wait until GameCube games go the way of the current NES market in 15 years. lol
Great points and explanation as to the why and when it happens. The ludicrous pricing has stopped me from going to certain gaming conventions. The saddest part is that I would look for these games to actually play them and experience them, while others will just keep them in a collection unused.
Adam is essentially rehashing a very covered topic but there's something about his presentation style that I've always appreciated over the years. It's like he's the little brother I never had that shares the same passion as his big bro. Coincidentally, I think he was born the same year as my younger brother. Even if he's not teaching this old dog a new trick it's still comforting to hear him talk for 20+ minutes about a topic he's very into. Thanks for the content over the years. Cheers dude.
The trick to getting cheap games is by trading with turtles. They are very reasonable.
I prefer trading with beaver pelts 😅
Around 2000 my mom took me and my sister to trade in our Super Nintendo at a local used game shop. They offered us $25, so we would only get $12.50 each. We rejected the offer and I still have that bad boy now at age 34.
Great video, Adam! Can’t believe I missed it when you first uploaded it.
I‘d like to add 2 things:
1. Opportunity cost. It may not actually be the wisest choice to buy games when they‘re super worthless, because you may just have it in your collection for 20 years before it appreciates in price. And sure, if you just want to own the game that‘s fine. But if you want to min-max the entire process a little, even in the most conservative index funds, that money will have more than doubled in 20 years. People like to focus on „I bought this game for $5 a decade ago and now it‘s $100! I am so good at this!“ sure, but what about the 100 games you bought that haven’t appreciated at all? You lost 4% on those each year to inflation alone, not even mentioning the money you could have made (and now used to buy other games) if you had just invested it in a more traditional asset.
2. I don‘t believe the whole „people are priced out of the hobby“ for one second. People just want the expensive stuff. I can go to eBay or a local store and buy absolute bangers on PS2 for less than 10€ each. Nobody is priced out of the hobby.
My thoughts:
Talking about pricing people out of the market, blame the speculative investors and FOMO influencers.
Demand also has a lot to do with it. Just because something's rare does not mean it's valuable. PS2 games from big name franchises (which in no way are rare) hold value because a lot of those franchises are either now dead, or nobody likes the newer entries as much. Why do think so many games get remastered now?
The cheapest consoles are always gonna be from the generation immediately before the current one. I've noticed that when game consoles become "grandfathered," meaning the successor of its successor is released, that's when it usually becomes an expensive collector's item.
For example, NES stuff was cheap during the SNES era, but slowly became a collector's item during the N64 era. PS1 stuff was cheap during the PS2 era, but then the prices started climbing during the PS3 era.
I was priced out years ago. Luckily, I already had everything I really wanted. I don’t call what I have a “collection” though. I call it a library.
Honestly this is very accurate. I got in late on collecting for my favorite console. But I was fortunate to grab a lot of the cheap stuff early.. so I'm just kind of buying my time. There's high-dollar stuff I'll never own so I'll just go with reproductions of those. But yeah in general being a retro gamer has never been better except for pricing.
Lmaoo “buying my time”….guy, its “biding my time”.
Here is an example of the cycle using the oldest console, the Magnavox Odyssey, as an example.
1972 - 75: The console is commercially available
1976 - 78: It’s price dramatically drops
1979 - 89: Mostly cheap but remains stagnant and little demand for it
1990 - 98: Nostalgia renaissance, prices for it are booming
1999 - 2014: Prices dramatically decrease again as people now in their 30s move on and sell it and collectors buy it
2015 - Present: Resurgence as people in their 50s or 60s want to relive their childhood now that their kids have left and for retirement life
Future: The kids who grew up in the 1970s will all be fully retired and already bought their childhood for their retirement. Prices will likely slowly go down again.
Far Future: The Magnaox Odyssey is only being bought by people for historical reasons. However it is rarer than ever. I mean imagine it by its 100th anniversary in 2072.
I think this was a good/accurate breakdown of how prices tend to go. There's one thing that might disrupt the pattern for some consoles, though: The unreliable media of generations 5 and 6. BluRay doesn't scratch easily. Cartridges may very well have a greater lifespan than a person... but man, I sure have been burned a lot by the Discs and DVDs in recent years. Especially PS1. The console itself is unreliable, but the discs seem to scratch easier than anything else I've ever played, too. I think it will become apparent in the next 10 years that collecting for PS1 is not sustainable if you want to actually play the games legitimately. The question is, how will people react? Will everyone just give up, driving the prices down? Or will the scarcity of working games bring the value up?
Recently, I repurchased a couple of games for the Turbo/PC Engine Duo that I sold back in early 2020 (Before COVID truly spread everywhere). It cost me $100 less total than I sold them for. I'm still shocked at the deal I got, but it makes me wonder if it's the beginning of a trend. I sure hope so. Would love to start buying Sega CD games. :P
I will admit I'm not a hardcore collector or anything but I do like to collect certain games from my childhood, certain collectibles and toys and stuff from when I was a child. But to be like a hardcore collector I just don't have the money for it.
Definitely been priced out of the hobby for the most part. I only pick up specific games here and there that I always wanted to play/have.
I had a feeling backwards compatible PS3s would go up in value when the RetroTink 4k comes out, and that's the reason I jailbroke my PS3 slim to play PS2 games. I also wish Sega would release Blood Will Tell on PC.
How well does a jailbroken PS3 slim play PS2 games?
@@thatssomegoodpie It depends on the game, but I would recommend keeping your PS2 for compatibility issues.
I'm literally already regretting this. I always wanted a new in box launch day PS3 and I've 100% missed the boat on getting that for anything close to a reasonable price.
I’m in the UK and started seeing GameCube, NES, PSOne and N64 stuff turn up in CEX. I think (in the UK any how) more and more people are trading in their game collections.
But you’re right with the ebbs and flows. In the very early 90’s my uncle used to pick up bags full of original Star Wars toys and they were worthless.
They raised in Value in the mid 90’s during the rerelease, then a bit more during the prequels. Dropped off a bit after, but now have steadily increased over the years. Most of the collector now are in their 40-50’s and after the top end stuff.
Great video Adam.
Around 6-7 years ago when I was 11 the Wii U was getting phased out I sold my entire Wii U and 3ds collection for a Xbox one…
This is why I buy what I play and keep what I play. Then emulate the older games I'm not gonna going to buy because the prices are too high and my space is limited. Great video as always Adam! I definitely learned a lot and it will help me in the future as I resale. :)
I too never sold any of my games or consoles as a kid because I knew as well that the offers were not in my favour. For me, that translated into only getting a new game on my birthday or Christmas. I did lose out experiencing some gems as they came out, but borrowing from friends and split screen co-op filled the gap! That and renting games.
man a couple of years ago i was so shocked when i saw prices for R-type Delta and many other rare retro games that i own. when we went to vacation i left my day1 ps1 and all the games i had in that house. this was 20years ago. i wish i can get my hands on those physical😉 memories, my uncle recently said that all of our old pc's and retro tech still exists, he put all that stuff into a storage locker because he tore down the old house. so maybe i will be lucky and get back my tech
This is a really fascinating insight to be honest. I'm only in my early 20s, so I've never really seen shifts like this before with demand and the factors that play into it simply due to being too young.
It’s funny when you hear Adam “ sorry if you hear sirens, gunshots, prostitutes screaming “, life in the hood,lol.
I don't collect games anymore but I do collect movies and the same stuff kinda applies. I think the hardest part going forward is trying to get new people into collecting. Once everything is majority digital, it's almost like you have to go out of your way to become a collector and I really don't know to appeal and promote it to new people.
Luckily I picked up on this trend a few years ago. Started picking up stuff at the bottom of depreciation about 12 years ago and took me till about 4-5 years ago to see the cycle it goes through. Of course there's outside factors and outliers, but almost all gaming stuff goes through it.
Like you said in the video the 7th generation of video game consoles is starting to hit it’s nostalgia renaissance just about now and will inevitably be even more so in a few years like the 6th generation is now. The 8th generation will likely start to hit it’s nostalgia renaissance around the early to mid 2030s and like you said in the video the Wii U will likely be the most expensive of the bunch by that time because it sold poorly and because of brand recognition on top of that among other reasons. I mean some Wii U stuff is already expensive as it is as more people are realizing how valuable it is and will be even more so in the future. The current generation, the 9th generation, won’t hit its nostalgia renaissance until the second half of the 2030s/early to mid 2040s so roughly 2 decades from now. It’s interesting to see what will happen to the very old consoles from the 1st & 2nd generations and where they are now as they are classified as antiques and the generation that grew up with them is now rebuying them again since their kids are moving out and their moving on to retirement.
Great vid and good points, but something I think that's worth considering is how the growing scarcity of physical media for new releases will affect the current initial wave of affordability. It's generally more likely that not only is a release known to be more limited, but the knowledge of that limit is spread fast due to spaces dedicated to monitoring these things online. It's still a great time to pick up Switch/PS4/XboxOne games, but you'll see weird spikes where release scarcity is a known factor. Also, the fact that many prints of a game will only contain a version 1.0 which may exclude content or even possess harmful bugs further complicates the situation.
Still, collect physicals for games you care about. What's funny is that the PS4/PS5 gen may eventually become the most valuable ever since print numbers and access to games are becoming more and more restricted.
Great video... I think it would be awesome to see prices go lower but with all the companies teasing us with online gaming...
I was lucky I started buying "retro games" when it wasn't a thing. It's not like one day I woke up and said "I'm going to collect", it happened naturally. I wanted to play the games I never had as a kid, I had my own money, It was the time when people wanted to get rid of older consoles and games, so it was easy to find NES, SNES, Megadrive or N64 games very cheap.
it was like making childhood dreams come true, "when I was 9 or 10 my parents would have never bought this for me, but now I have my own money and I can buy all the games I want and I'm going to play them all day!!! " hahaha.
Ima just let you know, this is one of your all time best videos 💯 not just the topic, but because it was good analysis👍🏻
One HUGE factor that is looming over this hobby moreso than other collectibles is how the digital distribution eventuality for every game console will affect the market. There's SO MANY GAMES that just hang in purgatory on consoles that will never get a re-release. That's very unlike anything for music or movie/TV related media, where that can be distributed online in an easier fashion, games require the IP rights holders to all be on the same page, development resources to actually put those games onto modern platforms. It's a really interesting situation on how the market reflects this when the only way to get games is either downloading or streaming.
Something also to factor in, reselling has become A LOT more accessible in our lifetimes with the advent of sites like eBay, Amazon, Mercari, etc. 20 years ago it existed, but it wasn't the behemoth that it is today. Those companies driving that push also hasn't helped matters at all as they're trying to make as much money from these hobbies as possible.
Outside economic factors also are going to take a part in this hobby as well. Right now, money is tight for a lot of people, things are more expensive than they ever have been especially in the ratio to income levels. I can totally see games dipping in value just because it's a non-necessity and people just can't afford it (kind of similar to what happened the years after 2008, deals were plentiful if you looked back then).
Games' combination of art and music makes many of them a nightmare when it comes to re-releases and remasters, for sure. More importantly though: Physical media is being deliberately driven to extinction and being replaced by predatory digital marketplaces. Many games we've been able to pick up for nothing in the last few years will be trapped in digital purgatory FOREVER here on out. I think physical media as a whole is incredibly undervalued looking forwards.
even in my mid 20s and into my 30s, i’m never going to get rid of my switch games, i’m going to hold onto those for as long as i can
I started my retro gaming collection in 2013; one of the best investments i’ve made for sure.
You can also buy storage units that sometimes have whole giant collections in them
yea but thats a gamble tho unless you know whats already in there.
usually the best time to buy retoro games at least for me is the 2 generation backwards trend as that is usually when they are cheapest, take the PS3 games right now, most of them are at their cheapest as they are old enough that most people dont play em but not old enough for them yet to be retro or more harder to find, same thing for ps2 games when the ps4 was in the lead and ps3 in the lead for ps1. That is why right now im focusing on the PS3 era to collect.
This comment could get extraordinarily long, so apologies for that…
I used to be an avid collector. I’ll never claim to have had the biggest or most valuable collection, but I had a collection that I was very proud of. I say “had” because I no longer have it. For context, I’m 32, grew up during the pinnacle of gaming - the late 90’s, early and mid 2000’s and there arguably was never a better time to be a kid-gamer than that timeframe. We were fortunate to have been gifted various consoles and handhelds throughout the years (but not every console) which only paved the road for my longtime love of gaming and collecting. Once I got a job as a freshman in high school, I started spending my measly $7 an hour on building a collection of SNES, GBA, DS, Genesis and GB games primarily. This was the late 2000’s and things were stupid cheap. I remember one of my first eBay purchases was a CIB Super Mario Land for $2.17. Not…kidding…
When I graduated college in the mid-2010’s, started making real money, moved out and had expendable income, I really went crazy. I filled in a lot of important parts of my collection like some CIB Super Nintendo, N64 and Gameboy/GBA games and CIB consoles that I really wanted and I started building the collection that I would come to be really proud of. However, I also made some purchases that I am not quite as proud of. This was the height of the Game Chasers era, so I was buying stupid stuff like Little Samson (among other equally as stupid things) for several hundred dollars at the time and I also spent several hundred dollars on console boxes to accompany my loose consoles (I had a thing for console boxes…). At the end of the day, it was several hundred dollars spent on cardboard….cardboard… I’m not proud of any of this. Also, being proud of something means very little if you really have no one to share it with and when that’s the case, it makes you kind of take a step back and ask yourself “what is all of this for?” and the primary factor for asking yourself that question is not as much money as it is TIME!
Two years after I graduated, I got married and now had to share a space with someone else and all of their stuff as well. At this point my collecting hobby had spiraled from collecting what I was really interested in and wanted to have in my collection to “shelf collecting”. I live in the upper mid-west. We have ZERO dedicated retro game stores in my entire state (that I’m aware of). Because of that, I had to order basically anything I wanted for retro gaming through eBay or eStarland, so I was having packages show up to the house in droves and it all became very overwhelming. I reached the point in 2020 during the pandemic, being constantly surrounded by the overflow of stuff that I had little-to-no time to use just rotting away on the shelves, that it was just time to wash my hands of it and move on. I decided in 2020 to significantly downsize my collection. Sure the inflating price of games in 2020 certainly aided in making the choice to sell much easier, but ultimately I chose to sell because I just didn’t need it, I no longer felt fulfilled by it, and due to focusing my attention on my wife, dogs and now a baby, I just don’t have the time to play as much as I’d like to, much less all of the random garbage that I accumulated through “shelf collecting”, things I’d never be interested in playing, so I let a bunch of it go. In 2022, I basically finished what I had started and got rid of a good portion of what I had left over. I went from 700 games in 2019 to about 125 today, most of which are just physical Switch games and things I still choose to play today when I do have a few minutes of time.
If I’m being honest, though… I still have access to play most of the games that I no longer have physically. With modded NES, SNES, Genesis and PS1 classic editions, a hacked Vita for Vita and PSP games, an Everdrive for my N64, GCLoader in my GameCube, OpenFPGA on the Analogue Pocket, OpenPS2Loader on my PS2 Slim, a hacked new 3DS, and a hacked Wii U and vWii for my Wii U and Wii libraries, I no longer had a need to keep the physical libraries on the shelves. Because of this, I still have very modern and convenient ways to play these games if I choose to without the overwhelmingness of having it all on shelves….and I’m okay with that. Having a digital library doesn’t provide me with any more time to play than I’ve had, so that problem remains, but it’s just so much easier and I have all of these game libraries backed up on multiple external drives and SD cards to prevent risk of losing all of the games like the 3DS and Wii and Wii U games that I painstakingly ripped and converted one-by-one on my own.
I definitely feel for anybody trying to get into collecting now. It’s insanely cost prohibitive. I know people want authentic experiences on authentic hardware, and to each their own, but there are a myriad of ways to accomplish playing games using original hardware. Take the GCLoader for example, your whole library on one SD card, no discs, no disc rot, no scratches and resurfacing, still uses the GameCube hardware, controller, memory cards, etc. If I’m playing Luigi’s Mansion or Mario Kart DD on my GameCube, using a Wavebird, I could care less whether there’s a disc spinning inside the console or not - same experience playing the game to me (though it does load marginally faster and obviously makes the already-quiet console that much quieter…).
I think we as a gaming society need to stop putting so much emphasis on authenticity and stop frowning so much on the use of modern solutions to play games without needing the whole physical library on the shelf. I think if people feel less pressure about it, they’ll see that it’s okay to not spend thousands of unnecessary dollars just to get the same experience that you can get in other ways. Yes, as a lifelong gamer and collector, I’m advocating for emulation…it’s been a thing for 30 years, it’s hardly a secret anymore and shouldn’t be as taboo as people make it out to be. Not everyone can afford spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to play some of the best games on some of these retro consoles.
It’s why all the 6th generation consoles I DO have are modded in some way (aside from the Dreamcast which I use burned discs, since my model isn’t compatible with the GDEmu) FreeMCBoot, OG Xbox Hardmod, and PicoBoot on the GameCube.
@@SpongeyBubby At the end of the day, time is the one thing you can’t get back, so you kind of have to decide, am I going to spend my time focusing on filling out the shelves, or am I going to spend the time gaming, and if you’re lost in filling the shelves, you have far less time focusing on playing the shelf content anyway… For me, having modded consoles was as much about reclaiming the already limited time I had to dedicate to gaming in any fashion as it was to reclaim the space in my house that was being swallowed. While I respect “authentic” gamers/collectors, I do applaud anybody that makes the leap to just say “I don’t need the stuff, I just want the experience of the games” in whatever form suits them best. Having modded consoles is one of the best decisions I made, and it was actually a really fun learning experience to dig into some of these modding projects, it really was a fun time. There are a lot of great guides on RUclips and the internet in general to keep your modding prowess going if you’re looking to get into more of it. And if you’re looking for something simpler, even something like an Everdrive for your cartridge-based consoles is a really good and easy entry point into the transition from needlessly filling the shelves! And new guides with more efficient methods for things like the 3DS and such are always hitting the web. I wish you all the luck in whatever that next step may be for you, and how ever you choose to play, just enjoy it!
The PlayStation Vita was my teacher for this phenomena.
In the last several years the costs of PS Vita games have risen dramatically. The handhelds are still relatively affordable but the games have gone from $10 - $20 to well over $40 - $50 each on average.
I've never seen a PS Vita for under $100, I've seen them as expensive as $200 and I'm like holy crap nope not the time to get one
@@BMR86 it’s only going to keep climbing.
@@TNVGAMING yeah, I've come to realize that with time, like Adam said, this is one of these instances where the device didn't have a big impact in the market, it dwindled down then years after Sony decided to pull the plug on it, people now started wanting it back, hence it's price has only creeped up
I collect only for certain systems ( starting with the N64 and ending with original Xbox when it comes to retro ) so I don’t need to hunt for everything ( only buy games I would actually want to play ). And just this week finally got Conker’s bad fur day for a good price. Now am after The Guy game for original Xbox. The funny thing is that there is a small voice in my head that sometimes tries to whisper: sell it all. And then a bigger voice instantly kicks in: don't you dare.
There seems to be a trend over the last few years of influential names in the scene "getting out" and selling off their collections or downsizing, and I hear that a lot from everyday collectors too, but I just seems like the prices are not reflecting that as much as one might suspect. I don't expect everything to become worthless, but a lot of these post-Covid prices are still holding on titles that were previously more low budget. Stuff that you just know is overpriced now, for what it is. If we just got back to pre-Covid, that would be awesome. Not every common B and C tier title justifies $20 - $30, or half of what they were at retail 30 years ago. I'm just not seeing a noteworthy decline for anything 90s era yet, in fact the peak was technically just a few years ago. If you check N64, the average value spiked back up a few months ago to 2020 levels. Idk if it's manipulation, but video game valuation is just weird. It never seems to lose anything.
I love old games i grew up on Sega mega drive, Gameboy,psone Xbox PS2 Ps3 Xbox 360 Nintendo Wii .... But money family and life means more ... I sold my playstation 1,2,3 consoles and games last year... I found here in the UK games just getting more and more expensive
I can't have that value sitting around anymore i used the money for playstation 4&5 games and will have great memories of old games but realistically I'll probably just watch twitch or RUclips videos to remind me of them old classics
Very interesting that you brought up the “2nd wave” of people selling their stuff for cheap.
I’m not 30 yet, just about to turn 26, but I just had my daughter not to long ago and I don’t have time for games anymore. Maybe 30 min a night throughout the week. Sometimes an hour. I do get a couple hours in on the weekend. Video-games are my lifelong passion but my family comes first before anything else.
I refuse to sell my stuff for the same reason you said, I wanna retire and have all my stuff..but at the same time, who knows if any of these systems will work in 30 years from now. Everytime I see a Dreamcast for sale, they’re mostly dead and those lasers won’t last forever. Sad truth is, gaming on original hardware is gonna be very unlikely and the only way to play them, (and I hate to say it) is through emulation.
Pay attention to recessions and massive cost of living increases. Ever since coming out of the big C I've been finding WAAAAAAAAY more rare Sega games coming back onto the market and a lot more stock in general of everything else Sega. Today alone I was in a retro shop and bought up some great games, CiB, awesome condition. The person serving me said a collector had come in and pawned all his collection. I've ran into that scenario so many times since the big C has led to the massive cost of living increase.
When things get back to normal, those collectors who sold off their stuff will be looking to get it back certainly. However, I am ENJOYING being able find all the stuff I wanted and had waited years for it to start showing up.
At this point all my original old consoles are faulty or just broken with age and being in storage for 20 years. I would be more inclined to pick up a all in one arcade machine with everything loaded on it that just works and gets the job done and uses HDMI. If game companies cared about old game I would have a option to buy them officially , but I don't so .....
You are spot on with your logic. I've always looked at game collectors being very close to car collectors. There's a time in which they can afford the cars they never could, then some sell, then some get back into it later. But when they die.... those cars die off too. At that point they are close to never seen outside of museums. This will probably happen with things like 2600s. In my mind it comes down to the things you loved as a child and couldn't afford.
When should you buy retro games? Twenty-five years ago.
Enjoying these discussion videos Adam, please keep them up!
Great lecture on when and how to collect! I've been buying lots of 5 and 6 dollar games for xbox, xbox one, 360. I'm mostly trying to buy up games that I'll wind up wanting to play later or have missed out on when they were new. Just recently bought my xbox 360e, xbox one, so I'm building on those libraries. As long as I have a decent representation of what each console was like is fine but mostly it is games I think I'll likely play. I never buys games based on whether I think they'll be worth money down the road.
Adam, you’re honestly my biggest inspiration for getting into and really being interested in retro gaming (there were other RUclipsrs that helped facilitate that but you’re numero uno, so I thank you).
With that in mind, you said that WiiU stuff will likely peek in the next 10 years. I was building a collection, had about 1/3 of a complete US set before selling a bunch off over the last year because well… life unfortunately.
Would it make sense for me to pick back up the hobby of collecting if I wanted to now or should I just wait for a nice long while? I had a decent strategy to collecting Wii U stuff although I wonder how well it would work now.
My rule is that I only 'collect' something if I have interest in it. If I'm not going to play it, I don't buy it.
That dip you talked about with NES and N64 stuff is something I've noticed, and I've just been slowly picking up NES and N64 stuff because of it where it makes sense.
I also think one thing that brand awareness will always play a factor in the value of a system. I notice Nintendo systems and games hold a lot more value generally than say the PlayStation or Genesis. The Genesis is an area I also like getting stuff for right now as well. So many games just as good as Nintendo stuff of the time, but people don't value it as highly because of brand awareness.
One thing to point out is that some things never completely lose value. There's a reason certain classic/antique cars became highly valued, and will likely never slip below a certain baseline.
I got back into the stuff i grew up with (and stuff i never got a chance to play back in the day) right when the first boom happened during COVID. Thankfully there were ODEs and Flash Carts available since i wasn't interested in collecting just playing on the OG hardware. They were expensive but worth it compared to how much it would be to buy everything individually.
I never purged this stuff, it was just put into storage alongside the rest of my childhood for when I wanted to go back into it. Even stuff I decided to rebuy, it has this moldy sort of mildew scent that’s very reminiscent with the stuff I pull out those bins. Definitely people who have bought this stuff when it used to be commercially available for cheap within that console’s lifespan are now selling it off in order to pay for bills which come with an increased cost of living, and I only feel that trade-ins (besides of the games themselves after you got bored of a title) are more commonplace today as we’re seeing an uptick of with smartphones for instance due to that increased cost as mentioned. These consoles shape a turning point in videogame culture as a whole, innovation was at an all-time high and people are only now going back to the basics because there’s just nothing like it in the current market considering the prominence in lootboxes and microtransactions beyond mountain-loads of DLC and day one patches since you’re only really just paying for the “base price”. Nowadays, most forms of entertainment are only worried about rehashing past successful franchises to incorporate modern trends into with gaming being no different in that regard with how pushed into the mainstream it became. Like it or not, these games aren’t getting any younger so with Dreamcast games in particular being prone to delamination and GameCube games with chipping paint for the disc art, to consider their libraries as out-of-print media would be severely an understatement. Not to mention the current trend of videos speaking about how print media is slowly disappearing off store shelves and that you can’t necessarily sell off digital games unless it’s the entire account, which aren’t truly owned to begin with.
I’m starting to piece together a GameCube collection, but it is a very daunting task indeed. I waited too long. Games that used to be $40 are now $70, or similar scales upwards. I don’t know if I expect prices to go down at this point, so I’m not waiting on it. Dreamcast is another one I want to get into but it’s been going up somewhat, same with PS1 for a while. N64 is ironically more easily collectible than GameCube at this point. I can’t really collect everything at once, I tend to focus on one system at any given time, and it’s overwhelming when it takes so long due to cost alone. Wii U is going to be crazy in 10 years due to general hardware scarcity and disc rot being so prominent, but I don’t expect to invest in it because I don’t like the odds of reliability for the above reasons.
Really enjoyed this video and the breakdown with how this happens in the waves. The knowledge shared here is fantastic and very insightful for collectors and those who are potentially looking to get into it. As someone who's been collecting heavily these past few years I can definitely see the nostalgic factor as it's significantly affected my collecting habits. The 7th gen is where it's at right now, things are still relatively cheap but it's only a matter of time before that starts to climb. Heck, some PS3 games are pretty up there already.
I'm most certainly part of the flow. I'm out here getting all my childhood stuff back from 6th and 7th gen. I even have a specific list to look out for of games I had, and of course getting other stuff I never got to try. It's really interesting
Interesting video 👍 I agree with your perspective on timing buying/collecting. Right now is DEFINITELY the time to be buying PS3 & PS4 stuff because they're both still insanely cheap.
Great video Adam. I know there are many jumping into collecting and could use guidance.
The weird thing throwing off the retro game market will ultimately be two factors: digital games and the fact games companies are doing better jobs at managing their back catalogues. There will be people who will bid up Xbox 360 games but they will have a far more difficult time with Xbox One games. There will be the further problem that the 2010s had a real shift towards PC gaming that, thanks to Steam, was far more digital-friendly than console.
And since companies are doing a better job with their back catalogues, most of the games that people will want to buy will still be able to be purchased either in the original version or a remaster. There won't be people trying to bid up the price of Xbox 360 copies of Skyrim like people did with Super Mario Bros on the NES not because there are a ton of copies laying around, but because people can still buy the game new today.
Good video. This doesn't just apply to video games. I saw that happen with turn of the century Singer foot pedal sewing machines. Just wish I would have had the foresight to buy a lot of Atari, Coleco and Intellivision stuff in the mid to late eighties.
On a serious note, I think the rise in popularity and prices is a good thing. The more people involved the more advancements and improvements in retro tech. More people involved in the community. Things like everdrives and odes. Mister. Emulation. Retro bits licensed rereleases. Newer AV mods or adapters. New wireless controllers. Retro tinks. Etc etc. The amount of cool things coming out to enjoy retro games outweighs the price factor of classic games.
Physical media is bound to die out, or at least cease to be the norm, sooner or later. Gotta wonder how that will factor in to the price of physical games.
Yeah, big box PC games are mostly a thing of the past.
Yes, even MiSTer FPGA has gone waaay up since I first got into it.
100% agreed on 'the best time is when its on its way out' between a ton of the late-era NES stuff that came out after the SNES launched, and yeah stuff like Panzer Dragoon Saga on Saturn, looking at what those go for now compared to then that's definitely the best advice IMHO. We may be in the market for 2600 stuff when the plus launches so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. and of course there's still the matter of the mrs. wanting a dreamcast, so if things line up that might be our christmas, haha.
Currently collecting the original Xbox, started a few months ago and already have the heavy hitters I wanted so moving forward every game is under $30.
I only buy games on PC, because they are usually cheap and I enjoy the benefits of online gaming and achievements. I don't have the space or money for physical games, even though I wish I could, and already have my plate full with collecting Blu Rays and DVDs, so, all I buy is consoles and accessories, if it's a newer console I will mod it, if it's older, I use a flashcart. For 8, 16 and some 32 bit games, I use a NES Classic Edition.
Yeah I grew up in the ps2- 360 era and I remember when the PS4/xone were announced it was when I decided to collect for 6th Gen stuff since it was so obviously cheap and people at the time were just throwing them away. It's been 10 years since but I've also similarly kept the mindset of "well that's. $5 game when in reality it's a $30 now and more." I've been priced out of my nostalgia and hobby now but I was able to take a step back and think about what I really wanted out of my collection despite buying most of it for dirt cheap back in the day and selling some of it off.
For now I casually collect switch releases since that's the only platform I have time for but I will keep watch on it whenever the next Nintendo console comes out.
The sirens outside: wiiu wiiu wiiu wiiu wiiu wiiu
Model Trains are a perfect example of the deadest point you reference. My best friends dad collected model trains from the 40’s/50’s , they’ve been worthless for awhile now
1:04 It's me, I'm that guy.
I'm about to turn 56 in January and I still have my original Sega Genesis,Sega CD,32X and a ton of games,two Sega Dreamcast with a bunch of games and my X-BOX 360,with a bunch of games.I had the Atari 2600,Colecovision,Intellivision,Nintendo 64,Game Cube,Playstation 2,but gave those consoles away to my Nieces and Nephews when they were young kids,unfortunately they don't have them anymore.I've been playing video games since the 70's,I haven't brought a new system since the 360 and I haven't played any games since maybe 2012.I still love video games though.
Great video. One thing that I am thinking about though is how the online aspect of games will change the equation. Day one patches, online multiplayer (or if you are unlucky, online single player), etc. It might be the case that some games are barely playable even with the disc and system in the future. That was not the case back in the day.
Shoutout to all the parents who gave us a lecture on not trading in our old games and consoles when we were kids. ❤️
The ebbs & flows you describe is a great example of when nobody cares, to suddenly everybody wanting the same retro game & prices become stupid. I used to collect but stopped years ago when the hobby was becoming more expensive than it should be. In the late 2000s I stopped collecting N64 & PS1 stuff when the nostalgia really hit hard for those systems. Then I stopped collecting for PS2 in the early 2010s when the nostalgia was also starting to hit that, though not as bad as the pandemic prices but still noticed an increase. In the end I gave up retro collecting. I still buy for what I deem non-retro systems so far, such as PS3, PS4, etc... as the prices are the best I have seen but also know that nostlagia will also hit those systems at some point in the near future because I have learned my lessons from the past. Now anything retro I play is on flashcarts, emulators, remasters & re-released ports. Thankfully those options can keep me gaming retro when the original hardware & software is just too much to get.
I'm not sure how much 360 nostalgia is gonna affect they price of physical X360 copies, since people can still play a lot of the popular 360 games in their XSX and XSS, and gamepass contains a lot of those games, preventing your average joe from buying those games.
Just listened to the whole video on my way to work :) IMO i think games are going to permanently be more expensive, we are heading to an all digital future and i think that is going to push a lot of people to collect out of nostalgia reasons. Physical games will be such an archaeic form that most gamers will buy them to remember their childhood or the next generation of kids who will grow up on ps6 and xbox series gamepass streaming that they will get really unterested in how games used to work.
Very, very good points. I just want to add a few things: in my case, living in eastern Europe, the problem was that, at the time games were a niche product and didn't penetrate the market like in the western part of the world. Second problem, was that I was a kid, I had no money, and my parents struggled enough with daily life expenses, so spending money on games or hardware for gaming wasn't in the cards, even older generations, theoretical worthless ones. Also game collecting and nostalgia for such a hobby (games) wasn't even a thing back then. I feel that nowadays are way too many people more or less invested in this hobby and became a mainstream hobby instead of a niche one. Because it's cool. Back in the day, you were a nerd if you played video games, something to make fun of and not cool. When you have so many people interested in a thing like this, obviously the demand will exceed the offer. And that's how the price goes up. Adding to all of this, the ever present scalpers, that got into this not for the love of games, or the preservation aspect, but simple good ol' money. Many times, I've stopped friends or acquaintances from getting ripped off on ebay or whatnot. "I'll lend you the game, play it as much as you want, and when you're bored with it, bring it back. You keep your hard earned money and it doesn't collect dust on the shelf". Because a gamer primarily wants to play the game, collectors are entirely another subject. And for a gamer to pay and an arm and a leg just to enjoy an older game, in my book at least, it's outrageous. But if the price is right, and the space permits it, then sure, by all means buy yourself a copy.
I found that the best plan, for me at least, was to get those 15 games I really loved, and nothing else. Got rid of everything else years ago, even if it's a really good game. Except my Game Gear and Dreamcast, and a few games for these systems, kept nothing.
Keep doing these Adam, it's always a pleasure to hear you speak.
My friend's dad has a commodore 64 setup, which lines up perfectly with the empty nest phase you talked about. Kind of funny that way. Now is also a good time to get on those ps4 pro-xbox one x systems since the new systems are saturating the market, but they are still a great way to play some older 8th gen titles.
That actually brings up another point, 8th gen doesn't seem like it's going to be affected by this pattern as much since compatibility is pretty universal now, and the games are all digital anyway. When 8th gen nostalgia hits it's peak, most people will probably just download that old game form the server onto a ps6, or old ps5 to get their nostalgia fix.
Piracy. Pirate them. Use ODEs on original hardware with HDMI mods or plugins. Use flash carts. The least impressive thing I see in retro game videos is the creator sat in front of a wall of NES gray.
Interesting discussion here Adam. The older I get and further we get away from the 1-5th generation of gaming systems, the more I think that Emulation/SD Card storage cartridges/ODEs, so basically using digital copies of games (I'm not condoning piracy, but you could make an arguement, not my point though) are the way of getting resonable access to these systems. The other issue is getting a good quality system to play these games on, whether it be a legit console, or an FPGA solution for a reasonable cost..
The wave analogy is dead on. And it will be interesting to see after the Atari 2600 people start passing on what happens to that era of games. And how they will be treated by those fols left behind.
But if I were to say anything to anybody about getting these games. PLEASE make sure that a preserved copy of everything game you own is digitized. Because NOTHING PHYSICAL WILL LAST FOREVER unless properly cared for. It just frightens me the day that the it's only sold digitally only is coming up very soon. It's making piracy more and more necessary.
As someone with thousands of games I often daydream about a piece of kit I can just quickly wave a disc over and get a fully digitised copy. So much of that stuff is proprietary or full of anti-piracy measures. Copying Blu-Ray discs is even harder as the hardware to do it is ITSELF becoming scarce and outdated.
@@ichrismoku Anything past the 6th gen is gonna be real tough to perserve. Kinda scary to think about all the games we're gonna loose.
As others have stated collect what is important to you. BUT always remember it's NOT an investment.
I've often wondered if the "premium" games in any generation will become more valuable when gamers realize they don't "own" their always online, drm riddled games. Maybe 10 years after Sony & Microsoft have printed their last disk.
"Don't touch a hot stove" syndrome - all the kids want digital goods but don't have the experience or the time frame to understand that all these companies will eventually rugpull you HARD, and digital-only people just won't listen. Until it affects them personally. And they realise their "collection" is subject to being revoked at any time.
To me personally, games that are online-only and packed with DRM and that cannot be exchanged *simply hold no value*. None. They are just not worth anything at all. And that's why I can't justify spending more than pennies on any of them.
The last generation of modern-ish games that are *complete on disc*, fully playable without patches, and that cannot be confiscated or revoked by fickle license holders are WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD, in my opinion. People just don't realise it yet. Physical media will be incredibly valuable for all kinds of reasons going forward.
Panzer Dragoon Saga was almost not available at release. Even specialty game shops didn't really carry it over here, or maybe just one copy. There are more examples of these types of games, but I agree on the base principal, that people generally have the change to buy something when it was new.
This is the same conversation Adam had at PRGE. Very interesting and good to know. Thanks for sharing for those who couldn't come to PRGE!
Yes sir! Thanks for coming to the panel.
Funny you mention that: my girlfriend and I actually did get metal slug X on my NeoGeo; where it usually goes for five grand, I’ve got lucky and got it for $600. Yep; NeoGeo ain’t cheap. Getting lucky involves a trick called “vulturing”; and a little of the law of attraction never hurt either.
im buying early switch and xbox one stuff especially right now its very cheap to do so outside of like nintendos stuff just from the way the market works toward stuff that is around 8 to 10 years old vs it being over 20 years old
It makes me glad I got a massive load of Dreamcast stuff when I did.
Nice pic in front of the Bend Blockbuster. Hope you enjoyed your time out there. Super pretty area
I remember picking up a Wii U back in fall of 2018 for about $80 CAD and regretting not getting the 32GB Model since the 8GB model I got only had about 3GB of usable space and I had to buy a flash card and hard drive. If only I had coughed up the extra $20-$30 I wouldn't have to worry so much about space issues. Nevertheless I'm still gratful I even got one so cheap in the first place especially since they arenow hard to come by. Additionally, I was shocked when a couple of years ago Gamestop decided to get rid of the their remaining inventory of Wii U games by pricing every used game they had for just $1 CAD. I immediately got Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Rayman Legends, Star Fox Zero and several other titles for less than the price of an annual subscription to Nintendo Switch Online which was just incredible. I remember regretting not just picking every game they had since it was just $1 but ultimately I chose not to because I didn't want to have a bunch of shovelware in my collection.
If I had to pinpoint the exact best time to buy a console and its games/accessories, it would be at the release of the "grandchild" generation; e.g. the best time to buy PS3 stuff (and same-gen like 360 & Wii) would have been right after PS5's release. You don't really want to buy PS3 stuff during PS4 era because there's still a mainstream used market at GameStop, pawn stores, etc. for people who can't afford the newest consoles and are still on the previous-gen (just like PS4 and XB1 stuff today). But by the time PS5 comes out, there's no longer a market for people still on PS3; sales for that generation are the lowest they will ever get. That's the time to pounce.
Great and interesting vid. I would love to see a kind of retrospective style series of vids of consoles/gens history/future predictions relating to when was/is the best time to buy. Just a thought
To me personally a little something that plays a part is also how well the system emulates. NES, SNES, MD, PS1 etc emulates pretty well on cheap handhelds now. Am I willing to pick up an original SNES, hook it up to the space-taking CRT (because it needs to be an old CRT) to play a very expensive cartridge (that I have to look up and pay and wait for) while plopping my ass down and being stationary when I can emulate it with no effort on the go AND get a bunch of upgrades to the gameplay? I will go with emulation personally (as someone with a pretty huge retro collection🙄). This is why I only bought the Switch as my first new console again since the original Xbox. I collect physical for it while that may not be economically sound (due to it being very possible to emulate as well). Maybe I just indirectly want to fund physical cartridges to let manufacturers see that it's viable (digital only SUCKS) idk. Also the cartridges are just so tasty...
The heros to me now are the people who come up with the new emulation solutions (multiplayer on a handheld each for retro systems is pretty awesome) and the ones who preserve scans of old manuals and cartridges + indie creators. The big gaming companies obviously don't care anymore. Seems this time instead of a crash, those happened before I was around, it'll be more of a slow decline.
I remember I came across the Saturn complete in box for $50 then..got rid of it.
Bought the entire Silent Hill series for $35 then..got it of them.
Wish I had someone to tell me "Don't get rid of it, it's going to be hard to get and hard to fine later."
I like the new thumbnail game. The title’s a little easier to read.