I doubt u are cause actual colorblind people see shades and have no need to complain. That or you are simply confusing your blindness with colorblind. In that case who told u he uses different colors?
Shawn Jones he said himself in the video that he used different colors. Why would you doubt he's colorblind? There are a lot of colorblind people, and there's many different types of colorblindness. You can't say that "A colorblind person should see shades of it" when everyone's different and even I didn't notice it was different colors at the start.
Pretty damn interesting using the ac system to make MORE power! In my f150 I turn on the ac as an impromptu "traction control" when it's raining because it bogs the engine so much that it reduces wheel spin on take off.
I saw something similar many years ago at the drag strip. The guy had a 1980's Buick Grand National 3.8L turbo car. He ran the intake air charge through another AC system Evaporator at the engine to further chill the intake air after the inter cooler. Yes, he raced with the AC compressor running. He had electric fans on the radiator also. The car did wheel stands. The added horsepower he got far exceeded what it took to run the AC compressor while racing. He had such a cool intake mixture , it made the engine think it was running in the winter air temps. I believe he also had metal intake air ducting wrapped with tubing that had the chilled refrigerant running through it and wrapped to insulate it creating more chilled surface area for the intake air to contact. A very clever setup. I'm not sure if he still had the original evaporator functional though but it was still in place. One of the things that I did on my own '82 Pontiac Grand Prix w/Chevy 350 in it was adding a DC water pump I got from Grainger Supply that was plumbed through the heater hoses so I could circulate the coolant through the engine while parked thereby cooling it down very quickly and preventing a heat soak condition. That car was NA and carburated. Didn't need the AC at all on that car. Headers all were heat sleeved as well to keep the heat out of the engine compartment. I don't think it ever ran more than 180 degrees on even the hottest days , had an over sized radiator and electric fans on that also.
ONLY if you run a sub 10 seccond (or is it 10.49?) pass, just because the car can, does not mean it always will, so you can't actually ban the car, but if you run faster than is allowed, you can then get kicked off.
This simply isnt the same thing. The water you get from A/C comes from cooling ambient air. It's basically dehumidifying the air. The component that does this is the cabin evaporator. The Demon's system is rerouting from the cabin evaporator to the power chiller. By not using the cabin evaporator, you're not 'leaking' anything.
It's called a Killer Chiller, made by Kincaid Performance. Ford lighting owners have been using it for a decade. Almost all Supercharged Tundra owners run one in the Middle East. It works in parallel with the cabin AC, lowering coolant fluid to about 10-15c. Using a valve solenoid separating the two lowers coolant fluid to below 0c. The Demon's knock-off is way behind in performance and functionality.
Neil Passage i would want the intake and fuel cooled as much as possible. We used to run cool cans back in the day, basically coiled copper fuel line in a cofgee can full of ice. This only works on drag cars because of ive melting so wuovkly
Turning the A/C off In most newer cars it probably won't make a huge difference anyway, every car I've owned since 2008 automatically turns off the A/C at full throttle, although sometimes only in Sport mode.
Turn the heater on the front windshield full blast, and throttle a little into the brake. As soon as its green stomp the gas and let off tbe brake, and shift out of 1st earlier than usual.
I remember reading a while back that Ford was experimenting with an F-150 Lightning using an a/c intercooler supercharged engine. Finally someone took on the task of putting such a system into production!
A buddy of mine did this to his 454 Nova. He claimed it made a difference, though I'm sure not as much of one as this system. He also bypassed the internal vents completely, so no more cool rides on a hot day. Still, it was fun to watch the looks on people's faces when he popped the hood.
what i did with my '79 RA40 Celica was to put an AC feed hose that runs on my Cold Air Intake Body that goes straight to the AC Vent... i also made an Air Funnel with ducting that redirects fresh air from the front grill towards the Intake Cone... so basically the colder air received by the cone is further cooled down by the injected AC Cold air in the middle of the Intake Body before it reached the carburator... i dont have number for HP gains but the engine feels happy and responsive with that setup... i also noticed better fuel economy somehow... so i guess that works
Indeed, if you want efficiency with forced induction you'll need a turbo with an intercooler and perhaps water injection and a water spray on the intercooler. That uses much less engine energy (turbo uses none) and you can get more power.
Turbochargers takes power to run as example a 62-62 @ 15 pounds of boost requires 5-10 hp~ i know the some of the math because I'm looking into jet powered ain't lag for my car you and me will not notice it as engine load once its spooled up and exhaust manifold pressure is driving it and not something like my ain't lag
MannyFresh1x so are you implying that turbochargers makes free boost with the engine off and putting a exhaust restrictions doesn't kill power?? With the engine on ??, Evan Jason said to make boost it takes power but if the added Engine capacity is greater than no boost you probably will not notice it as a load as a experiment try and use a turbocharger in a way that is a conventional load or see how much it takes to drive it to boost one way is to see how much fuel it's the same math equations as ice engines bsfc or look it up some of my math was helped by Borge Warner turbocharger company reputable source Cletus McFarlan with Leroy he's doing a turbocharger build and had to take the waste gates of to try fix the boost crepe the Dino monitor might even show it as load if you use logic and look closely
of course you can't run a 10 hp turbocharger for free lol, it's just you can make another 50 hp with that extra air(I'm making the numbers up), having a little 2 stroke running a turbo is a really cool anti lag, anti parasitic setup.
These videos really do make you appreciate just how special and incredible internal combustion engines and their engineers are 🙏🏽 Non car enthusiasts should be watching these vids so hopefully they'll be more appreciative and have respect for this amazing car world
SaintChax Once you go electric, everything else is just too nonsensical. One stinks up the neighborhood while the other doesn't. One is silent, the other annoys the neighbors. My morning peace is always interrupted by free flow exhaust equipped vehicles starting up.
This technology has been out for years. Ford had something called the SuperCooler on the 2004 prototype Lightning. You can also buy a Killer Chiller from an aftermarket company for many different roots/twinscrew applications.
Wow, this is so cool to see! I've been thinking of doing exactly this so I can run a ~500 hp marine Detroit Diesel in my bus instead of the ~300 hp or so available from a non-marine, road going version. Aside from needing a very large radiator (in place of seawater cooling) the way they get to 500+ hp is with a seawater cooled intercooler. My thought was to go with an air to air intercooler first after the turbo, then use the chiller that normally supplies A/C for the entire coach to supply chilled water to the original intercooler to further cool the charge air to similar temperatures that would be found with the original seawater cooling. SO cool to see someone has already done it!
Nice explanation of how the system works. I thought FCA had moved their production cars to R1234yf instead of R134a. I could be wrong as all the details about this car haven't been given yet.
As complex and awesome as this is, it's the simple things that get me most. 7:33 Oddly fascinating.😲😍 Love that you've included this random clip of the Coriolis Effect and the Northern Hemi-sphere's counter-clockwise water rotation, Jason! As it turns out, my second favorite Hemi in this video, is the one in the Dodge.😜 Cheers!
In 1993 Ford had the Mustang Mach III concept, which is basically where the Terminator motor would eventually come from, that used what was known as a Supercooler which used the exact same concept Dodge is using to cool the Demon motor with. I never did understand why Ford never actually released a vehicle that utilized this technology. Anyway I think this is the most interesting aspect of the Demon and I'm happy Dodge is actually producing it.
I do love these in-depth detailed explanations on this channel; it's fascinating. But any of his engine videos, and especially this one, illustrate just how absurdly complex engines are getting just to eke out a few more HP (and usually at the expense of fuel efficiency). EVs, specifically the Model S, are amazing out of the box, but I can't wait to see what the gearhead world can get one to do once they start really tweaking them: different gear ratios, better cooling, maybe electromechanical flywheels to prevent battery overheating...
It may be the first time that exact way has been used, but it is a near copy of the supercharged/ AC intercooled Corvette Stingray! I like your videos, and am not out to correct you. The Corvette though has been doing it for years, and is pretty obvious the first modern American car to do so. The after run system isn't much different than a HKS turbo timer. With that; I have put a relay/delay in my legacy wired to fans, and parking lights. So after I drive it like I stole it, a quick flash of parking lights when I park runs fans for three minutes. Cost was under ten dollars, and has worked great for past two years; without extra noticeable switches!
Correct. This is a technology that was introduced on the 3rd generation concept Lightning, but the idea apparently was scrapped along with the truck itself. Kind of surprising Ford didn't carry it over onto the GT500s.
Now we have people saying the American flag doesn't exist. Amazing. The Internet really is a magical place. Corrupted blood magic, but magical nonetheless.
If you run the thermodynamic equations and you recover more energy than you spend running the A/C... it works. The same principle of every intercooler out there, but with a pump. Every thermal power plant uses those principles.
It sounds like overall this system is a net loss in power. However, since this is a drag strip the engines are producing a lot more heat than they can sustainably get rid of and refrigerating the intercooler (and its fluid) effectively gives you more room to store heat.
Not at all. I design these for much larger engines... 40k HP combustion power turbines spinning 45MW generators. We cool the inlet air with about 1.5MW of chiller load (2k cooling tons), which provides much more than that in added generation due to increased air density... 5-8 added MW. Google "turbine inlet air cooling".
Interesting. However, the system on this car still shuts off at high RPMs. Maybe it's not nearly as efficient as a utility scale system? Or maybe there's enough thermal lag that it's worth shutting off for the latter half for a run, even with it being a net gain of power.
For those short on time: bypass valve after expansion valve routes cold air from evaporator (passenger cooling) to a power chiller that feeds the intercooler. Very interesting. I wonder if this has been implemented before.
You very often have the best videos to explain what I am looking up, many thanks. I was just wondering if adding something like an intercooler to a non-supercharged car would give a little increase in power on very hot days.
Intercooler will not be effective on a car that doesn’t have forced induction. Just want to make sure it gets clean air from the front of the car rather than hot air from the engine bay.
Am about to install a supercharger on my acura and was thinking that it would be nice if someone figured out how to use the ac to help out the intercooler. Well here you go. Lol. Great explanation!
Interesting, I had this exact same idea back when I was in school over 10 years ago, was more of a thought experiment but the gains I imagined to be negligible.
The irony of briansmobile1 uploading "How-to Test for AC Compressor Clutch Function" at the same time as this! You Fix It Again Tony buyers may need to watch his video for future reference.
You cannself fabricate one. Im going to, and im gonna dyno it to see if its worth it. If it works ittle be much cheaper to build at home. Tho i doubt it will give more power than a water cooled intercooler will.
Here's the simple version of this easy to understand video. You have three air components in your car. The intercooler, radiator, and air condenser (basically the air conditioning). The intercooler and radiator take in a bunch of air. If you run the car AC it will take air from the outside and make it cold. Basically the AC is the intercooler for the inside of the car. If you turn off the AC and send that air to the engine, the engine gets more air. The AC will be connected to the intercooler so that it can take in more air. The AC in the dodge demon is basically just a third source of air for the engine. XD
Fantastic! At 0:37 i paused the video to examine the chart and i figured it all out 😋 the ac basically acts as an auxiliary intercooler for the liquid flowing through the primary supercharger intercooler. Cooler intake air means more dense air which encourages the ecu to add more fuel for more power! Smart thinking dodge! But is that extra power worth the extra weight lol where do we draw the line?!
you can also use a supercharger cool pad to help with heat soak and cooling the air and fuel mixture that pad will suck the heat right out of the blower in between runs at the track
Always love your videos! Thing to make your future videos better: black and brown (and purple by a lesser degree) aren't easy to discern in a video like this. Use red/green/blue and the words in black next time :)
For some reason, I was thinking in the 80s-90s a Merc used a similar system but found it ultimately was unreliable (probably due to the refrigerants we had at the time)
I always find it confusing when people dislike factual videos. "I DISLIKE YOUR VIDEO BECAUSE IT TOO ACCURATELY DEPICTS HOW THINGS WORK. IT'S LESS MAGICAL AND I WANT MY STUFF TO BE MAGICAL!!!" Only reason I can come up with.
It seems to me that it would work better if the charge air bypasses the intercooler when not at full throttle, so it can store some coldness for when it's needed. Also bypass the radiator when liquid temperature is lower than ambient.
I have a 2500hd Duramax that loves to get +230 when towing up hill, I've always wondered why the GM engineers don't put a AC By-pass system to send the AC Coolant to the Turbo Intercooler during heavy engine loads? This would significantly lower the incoming air temperature. Or place a AC Radiator (cool) in front of the Radiator to cool the incoming air.
I agree that is smart engineering. But I always had that mentality that the more parts you add to a system, better the chances thay one of those part will break.
I had a similar idea to boost power on my Focus. Its relatively underpowered for how much weight shes carrying around. I wanted to use an electric motor to run the compressor so it doesn't take power away from the engine itself. Then it would be at matter of piping it into the intake. Maybe even a small electric air compressor to make a lil boost. Im not sure if it'd be worth all the trouble, it was just an idea I had while high and contemplating how to make more power without a turbo or blower. I thought about getting rid of the ac all together and putting a Rotrex in its place, but I live in Texas and the summers get hot AF.
Cool video. I wonder how this compares to the efficiency of using an additional injector at the front end of the supercharger for cooling the air charge. I know 90s Toyota used to do this and they called it the 7th injector and they just sprayed raw fuel inside of the supercharger to keep the fuel cool.
The NHRA should just build a separate drag strip with shade covering the 1/4 mile & foam padding on each side so Demon owners can race in comfort with a/c & Starbuck's
I always dream of a way to use the exhaust heat to run an absorption chiller . This has been used in gas turbine generation to cool hot ambient air to 55 degrees f to eliminate the loss of 1 megawatt due to hot entering air into a Cf6 size turbine
So? I got about 12 city and 16 highway in a heavily modified car, I love smoking cars that cost $100k+ more than a little gas mileage. I think I got about 3 or 4 mpg or less when on the drag strip!
manikdj123 me and friends also talked about it and i always said if i was by smokey yunicks " best damn garage on daytona" when he was there id talk to him about it but i was always awe struck when id get around smokey...
Hi Jason. Can you actually explain how the Power Chiller itself works? I'm assuming that the refrigerant cycles through that rectangle box like a radiator, and the intercooler coolant passes through it? I'd like to see a cutaway of that Power Chiller.
they were probably using R134a, which can really only get your air down to 0C at the lowest, but that would be with a 26C ambient temp. Given the size of the cooling unit, I would say that to drop any more than 10C using the AC would mean going to a different gas, something like R404, which can go way below 0C. Fine for a track car, but at what point do the gains become not worth it.
It would be fun to build a car with a giant compressed air tank in the trunk. You could get very cold intake air temps as the gas expanded out of the tank, and would not need a supercharger or intercooler, just a big-ass metering valve. Plus, you would be able to reduce flow work on the intake stroke, maybe even push down on the piston during intake like a compressed-air engine, at-least at low rpm.
You stated this is the first time this power chiller has been used in a production vehical, I have a chiller that looks very similar in my srt6 crossfire. I have had the car a couple months and was going to remove all the extras to save weight, and a tuner told me that this system is excellent at cooling the air. I can not find anything on the internet that explains it, can you help ? thank you for all the excellent videos, you are better than a college!
Autoline This Week (episode 2121) did an interview with Chris Cowland (Director of Advanced and SRT Powertrain at FCA) and he said that the idea to use the A/C system came from the Advanced engineering group (and not the SRT group) and they think that it *may* be a future technology to achieve better fuel efficiency in other types of ICEs that aren't meant just to chase power. How would that work?
gee that was a bit long-winded, you know how you compress the intake air with a turbo but bring it back to ambient with the "inter-cooler" to keep the air dense ? well now you go a step lower by actually refrigerating the air with an AC system to make the air even denser for the same pressure and so get even more air into the engine and more air/mix means a bigger bang and more power.
ive been using AC to try and make power since i was 18. took some hose and redirected the ac that would go to feet to my an enclosed box where my filter sat in. never tested it to see if it made power lil
Efficiency. Oil is expensive now, and climate change is upon us, so most people want efficient cars, even at the expense of performance. Complexity and cost can be a factor too. More moving parts mean higher maintenance costs, and lower reliability.
This system uses engine power to increase the amount of fuel the engine can burn. That increases power, but decreases efficiency. Turbochargers are far more efficient, they use mostly the otherwise lost energy in the exhaust gas, and they have better thermal efficiency too. The boost in power allows a smaller, lighter engine, which is good for efficiency and more than offsets the energy loss of the turbo. That's why they are used on modern engines. For example my current car has a 1.4l twin charged engine, which is 35% more powerful, has 70% more torque, and still about 10% more efficient then my previous car's naturally aspirated 1.6l engine. The new 1.2l version has about the same performance as the old 1.6l one. But now this whole thing is irrelevant. If you want either power or efficiency, just go electric. The Tesla Model S P100D ludicrous+ is just a tiny bit slower, but it's a luxury car and it's engine has 1 moving part, and the whole powertrain has around 20. It's far superior in almost every way, probably the best car ever. Or if you don't have that much money, the Model 3 just came out at $35,000 (before incentives), and it still can beat most sport cars. The only issues is that the waiting list is so long, if you order one now, you won't get it before 2019.
Owning a 4cyl in the past, switching off the AC was like hitting a turbo button lol.
4DIYers that's how my sti is😂😂😂🤘
4DIYers Ive heard this joke before.
Adam Vulture Not exactly a joke. It does make a difference
Yep it's true lol... I used to switch off the ac when passing to make the most out of the engine.
Adam Vulture It aint no joke my man. it makes a world of difference in a 1.5l 4cyl. going up a damn mountain everyday.
As someone who is colorblind, I appreciate you using very different colors for your demonstration!
Farmerfrugal lmao
I doubt u are cause actual colorblind people see shades and have no need to complain.
That or you are simply confusing your blindness with colorblind. In that case who told u he uses different colors?
Shawn Jones hehe 😁
Shawn Jones he said himself in the video that he used different colors. Why would you doubt he's colorblind? There are a lot of colorblind people, and there's many different types of colorblindness. You can't say that "A colorblind person should see shades of it" when everyone's different and even I didn't notice it was different colors at the start.
I am not colorblind but I have reduced sensitivity to colors. For me engine and A/C section looks same ...
Pretty damn interesting using the ac system to make MORE power! In my f150 I turn on the ac as an impromptu "traction control" when it's raining because it bogs the engine so much that it reduces wheel spin on take off.
hahah that's awful and funny
That's hilarious!😂
I saw something similar many years ago at the drag strip.
The guy had a 1980's Buick Grand National 3.8L turbo car.
He ran the intake air charge through another AC system Evaporator at the engine to further chill the intake air after the inter cooler.
Yes, he raced with the AC compressor running.
He had electric fans on the radiator also.
The car did wheel stands.
The added horsepower he got far exceeded what it took to run the AC compressor while racing.
He had such a cool intake mixture , it made the engine think it was running in the winter air temps.
I believe he also had metal intake air ducting wrapped with tubing that had the chilled refrigerant running through it and wrapped to insulate it creating more chilled surface area for the intake air to contact.
A very clever setup.
I'm not sure if he still had the original evaporator functional though but it was still in place.
One of the things that I did on my own '82 Pontiac Grand Prix w/Chevy 350 in it was adding a DC water pump I got from Grainger Supply that was plumbed through the heater hoses so I could circulate the coolant through the engine while parked thereby cooling it down very quickly and preventing a heat soak condition.
That car was NA and carburated. Didn't need the AC at all on that car.
Headers all were heat sleeved as well to keep the heat out of the engine compartment.
I don't think it ever ran more than 180 degrees on even the hottest days , had an over sized radiator and electric fans on that also.
Texans are going nuts right now
Automobile Hunter
I live in Texas....what u mean by that ?
Mike Garcia we love two things: air-conditioning and POWAH
Automobile Hunter
Oh yea ! Lol
What about guns?
SkipThe Engineer That goes without saying!
A/C running is not permitted on NHRA sanctioned drag strips, because the water condensate that leaks onto the track is a safety hazard.
Isnt the Dodge Demon banned from those anyway because it doesnt have a full roll cage?
The Demon has a catch system to retain all the condensation so that it IS allowed to run AC on the strip, does not leak.
ONLY if you run a sub 10 seccond (or is it 10.49?) pass, just because the car can, does not mean it always will, so you can't actually ban the car, but if you run faster than is allowed, you can then get kicked off.
You'd fit a roll cage if so inclined.
This simply isnt the same thing. The water you get from A/C comes from cooling ambient air. It's basically dehumidifying the air. The component that does this is the cabin evaporator. The Demon's system is rerouting from the cabin evaporator to the power chiller. By not using the cabin evaporator, you're not 'leaking' anything.
Wow I didn't realize the supercharger pulled 90 hp from the engine. This system of "win some lose some" is pretty amazing though
thats why most use turbocharger.
It's called a Killer Chiller, made by Kincaid Performance. Ford lighting owners have been using it for a decade. Almost all Supercharged Tundra owners run one in the Middle East. It works in parallel with the cabin AC, lowering coolant fluid to about 10-15c. Using a valve solenoid separating the two lowers coolant fluid to below 0c. The Demon's knock-off is way behind in performance and functionality.
So the a/c runs all the time cooling the engine, then cooling the cabin when you switch it on? Wow!
Thanks.
177SCmaro it's not a pre-intercooler it is the intercooler. There are a few companies that make the same setup for use on various applications.
This is correct. It is called charge air.
Neil Passage i would want the intake and fuel cooled as much as possible. We used to run cool cans back in the day, basically coiled copper fuel line in a cofgee can full of ice. This only works on drag cars because of ive melting so wuovkly
Is this the first production vehicle to use this? Seems like a pretty good concept
😕 my 03 540 has a air system to boost it at idle mainly
That's weird to think because I always turn off my AC before I race someone at the light.
Absolutely. Matter of fact I turn the heat on (especially after running hard, before shutdown)!
Turning the A/C off In most newer cars it probably won't make a huge difference anyway, every car I've owned since 2008 automatically turns off the A/C at full throttle, although sometimes only in Sport mode.
Turn the heater on the front windshield full blast, and throttle a little into the brake. As soon as its green stomp the gas and let off tbe brake, and shift out of 1st earlier than usual.
I remember reading a while back that Ford was experimenting with an F-150 Lightning using an a/c intercooler supercharged engine. Finally someone took on the task of putting such a system into production!
I gotta say this channel is awesome. It gives a much clearer view of how everything is working. Keep up the good work. 👌
Brilliant job of articulating and illustrating an extremely complex system in to layman's terms in under 8 minutes. Thank you.
A buddy of mine did this to his 454 Nova. He claimed it made a difference, though I'm sure not as much of one as this system. He also bypassed the internal vents completely, so no more cool rides on a hot day. Still, it was fun to watch the looks on people's faces when he popped the hood.
what i did with my '79 RA40 Celica was to put an AC feed hose that runs on my Cold Air Intake Body that goes straight to the AC Vent... i also made an Air Funnel with ducting that redirects fresh air from the front grill towards the Intake Cone... so basically the colder air received by the cone is further cooled down by the injected AC Cold air in the middle of the Intake Body before it reached the carburator... i dont have number for HP gains but the engine feels happy and responsive with that setup... i also noticed better fuel economy somehow... so i guess that works
Indeed, if you want efficiency with forced induction you'll need a turbo with an intercooler and perhaps water injection and a water spray on the intercooler. That uses much less engine energy (turbo uses none) and you can get more power.
Ted Schoenling OEMs try to use turbos first. They revert to supercharging when packaging or cost doesn’t allow them to.
Turbochargers takes power to run as example a 62-62 @ 15 pounds of boost requires 5-10 hp~ i know the some of the math because I'm looking into jet powered ain't lag for my car you and me will not notice it as engine load once its spooled up and exhaust manifold pressure is driving it and not something like my ain't lag
No it doesn't... Turbos run off of otherwise wasted exhaust gasses. Making them non parasitic.
MannyFresh1x so are you implying that turbochargers makes free boost with the engine off and putting a exhaust restrictions doesn't kill power?? With the engine on ??, Evan Jason said to make boost it takes power but if the added Engine capacity is greater than no boost you probably will not notice it as a load as a experiment try and use a turbocharger in a way that is a conventional load or see how much it takes to drive it to boost one way is to see how much fuel it's the same math equations as ice engines bsfc or look it up some of my math was helped by Borge Warner turbocharger company reputable source Cletus McFarlan with Leroy he's doing a turbocharger build and had to take the waste gates of to try fix the boost crepe the Dino monitor might even show it as load if you use logic and look closely
of course you can't run a 10 hp turbocharger for free lol, it's just you can make another 50 hp with that extra air(I'm making the numbers up), having a little 2 stroke running a turbo is a really cool anti lag, anti parasitic setup.
These videos really do make you appreciate just how special and incredible internal combustion engines and their engineers are 🙏🏽
Non car enthusiasts should be watching these vids so hopefully they'll be more appreciative and have respect for this amazing car world
ZAIN AKBAR Useless convoluted machinery only to be beaten by a much simpler electric vehicle.
difflocktwo mabye a tesla can win short distance but thats it
difflocktwo just appreciate both
Greenespirit If Dodge put any engineering effort into making an EV, it would out perform this engine with all its crutches attached to it.
SaintChax Once you go electric, everything else is just too nonsensical. One stinks up the neighborhood while the other doesn't. One is silent, the other annoys the neighbors. My morning peace is always interrupted by free flow exhaust equipped vehicles starting up.
This technology has been out for years. Ford had something called the SuperCooler on the 2004 prototype Lightning. You can also buy a Killer Chiller from an aftermarket company for many different roots/twinscrew applications.
Zachary Brown shouldn't you be playing country music with your band?
I quit the band to troll RUclips.
Lol. Good info on the lightning, didn't know that. So ford designed a similar system and dodge had the balls to put it on a car
Wow, this is so cool to see! I've been thinking of doing exactly this so I can run a ~500 hp marine Detroit Diesel in my bus instead of the ~300 hp or so available from a non-marine, road going version. Aside from needing a very large radiator (in place of seawater cooling) the way they get to 500+ hp is with a seawater cooled intercooler. My thought was to go with an air to air intercooler first after the turbo, then use the chiller that normally supplies A/C for the entire coach to supply chilled water to the original intercooler to further cool the charge air to similar temperatures that would be found with the original seawater cooling. SO cool to see someone has already done it!
This is awesome. I've always asked myself if it was possible and wondered why others didn't do it.
Added weight, added complexity, added cost.
Because it isn't possible. This thing is a hoaxt and should be treated like one.
Nice explanation of how the system works. I thought FCA had moved their production cars to R1234yf instead of R134a. I could be wrong as all the details about this car haven't been given yet.
Ford had a prototype lighting with a system like this back in 2003 I thought it was really cool. I glad to see that such a cool idea hasn't died
Heard the launch procedure is cool, can u do video on that too ?? Nice video btw
As complex and awesome as this is, it's the simple things that get me most. 7:33 Oddly fascinating.😲😍 Love that you've included this random clip of the Coriolis Effect and the Northern Hemi-sphere's counter-clockwise water rotation, Jason! As it turns out, my second favorite Hemi in this video, is the one in the Dodge.😜 Cheers!
In 1993 Ford had the Mustang Mach III concept, which is basically where the Terminator motor would eventually come from, that used what was known as a Supercooler which used the exact same concept Dodge is using to cool the Demon motor with. I never did understand why Ford never actually released a vehicle that utilized this technology.
Anyway I think this is the most interesting aspect of the Demon and I'm happy Dodge is actually producing it.
I do love these in-depth detailed explanations on this channel; it's fascinating. But any of his engine videos, and especially this one, illustrate just how absurdly complex engines are getting just to eke out a few more HP (and usually at the expense of fuel efficiency). EVs, specifically the Model S, are amazing out of the box, but I can't wait to see what the gearhead world can get one to do once they start really tweaking them: different gear ratios, better cooling, maybe electromechanical flywheels to prevent battery overheating...
It may be the first time that exact way has been used, but it is a near copy of the supercharged/ AC intercooled Corvette Stingray!
I like your videos, and am not out to correct you. The Corvette though has been doing it for years, and is pretty obvious the first modern American car to do so. The after run system isn't much different than a HKS turbo timer. With that; I have put a relay/delay in my legacy wired to fans, and parking lights. So after I drive it like I stole it, a quick flash of parking lights when I park runs fans for three minutes. Cost was under ten dollars, and has worked great for past two years; without extra noticeable switches!
This is similar to Ford's SVT Lightning SuperCooler technology. But don't think it made its way to production.
Mr OneT oh. I read the first half and was about to tell my friend how to speed up his lightning . XD
Correct. This is a technology that was introduced on the 3rd generation concept Lightning, but the idea apparently was scrapped along with the truck itself. Kind of surprising Ford didn't carry it over onto the GT500s.
Scott Lambeth what year did ford start designs on the supercooled tech?
They took the idea of the "Killer Chiller" for the Cobra's and GT500's. The Demon seems like a hell of a car, I would like to drive one.
This car should be on the american flag
Mike Mr305 American flag... brain damage Is strong with this one
mazzaram its a joke bud
But there is no such thing as an American flag.
Eww !!
Now we have people saying the American flag doesn't exist.
Amazing. The Internet really is a magical place. Corrupted blood magic, but magical nonetheless.
Hey, that was my idea to put a/c evaporator in filter box, ... but they did much more, great!
If you run the thermodynamic equations and you recover more energy than you spend running the A/C... it works. The same principle of every intercooler out there, but with a pump. Every thermal power plant uses those principles.
I would love to have this type of engineering done to my Honda Civic. IAT's during the summer where I live are ludicrous!!!
Hey I have a question. You said that under 4500 rpm, the chiller works. What about beyond 4500 rpm. Is the chiller system always working?
The A/C pump probably turns off to save parasitic loss
1xxrecar But shouldn't it be on since higher rpms lead to more heat.
It sounds like overall this system is a net loss in power. However, since this is a drag strip the engines are producing a lot more heat than they can sustainably get rid of and refrigerating the intercooler (and its fluid) effectively gives you more room to store heat.
Not at all. I design these for much larger engines... 40k HP combustion power turbines spinning 45MW generators. We cool the inlet air with about 1.5MW of chiller load (2k cooling tons), which provides much more than that in added generation due to increased air density... 5-8 added MW. Google "turbine inlet air cooling".
Interesting. However, the system on this car still shuts off at high RPMs. Maybe it's not nearly as efficient as a utility scale system? Or maybe there's enough thermal lag that it's worth shutting off for the latter half for a run, even with it being a net gain of power.
For those short on time: bypass valve after expansion valve routes cold air from evaporator (passenger cooling) to a power chiller that feeds the intercooler. Very interesting. I wonder if this has been implemented before.
You very often have the best videos to explain what I am looking up, many thanks. I was just wondering if adding something like an intercooler to a non-supercharged car would give a little increase in power on very hot days.
Intercooler will not be effective on a car that doesn’t have forced induction. Just want to make sure it gets clean air from the front of the car rather than hot air from the engine bay.
@@EngineeringExplained Thank you !
Love the technology in the DEMON! Thanks for the explanation.
Am about to install a supercharger on my acura and was thinking that it would be nice if someone figured out how to use the ac to help out the intercooler. Well here you go. Lol. Great explanation!
That's frigging (bad pun alert) Cool
so I thought this up like 20 yrs ago..and theyre finally doing it? Nice.
That's actually really cool. Can't wait until that system becomes more common in the automotive market.
Interesting, I had this exact same idea back when I was in school over 10 years ago, was more of a thought experiment but the gains I imagined to be negligible.
The irony of briansmobile1 uploading "How-to Test for AC Compressor Clutch Function" at the same time as this!
You Fix It Again Tony buyers may need to watch his video for future reference.
I wonder if that system can be implemented to current models like turbocharged cars? Aftermarket kit or something like that?
If your intercooler is the air-water type then yes, otherwise you wouldn't get much benefit.
You cannself fabricate one. Im going to, and im gonna dyno it to see if its worth it. If it works ittle be much cheaper to build at home. Tho i doubt it will give more power than a water cooled intercooler will.
Should have a collection tank from the cabin evaporator to collect the condensation from the air and then use it in a water injection system too.
Here's the simple version of this easy to understand video. You have three air components in your car. The intercooler, radiator, and air condenser (basically the air conditioning). The intercooler and radiator take in a bunch of air. If you run the car AC it will take air from the outside and make it cold. Basically the AC is the intercooler for the inside of the car. If you turn off the AC and send that air to the engine, the engine gets more air. The AC will be connected to the intercooler so that it can take in more air. The AC in the dodge demon is basically just a third source of air for the engine. XD
Fantastic! At 0:37 i paused the video to examine the chart and i figured it all out 😋 the ac basically acts as an auxiliary intercooler for the liquid flowing through the primary supercharger intercooler. Cooler intake air means more dense air which encourages the ecu to add more fuel for more power! Smart thinking dodge! But is that extra power worth the extra weight lol where do we draw the line?!
As usual you do an awesome job at explaining how technology works.
I always wondered if this was a feasible method of basically supercooling the intake air. I guess it is. Cool.
Ford used a similar system in their Ford F-150 Lightning supercharged a few years back.
Seeing that "R134a" on the board remembers me of those Thermodynamics classes xD
Liked for the engine cooling propeller.
you can also use a supercharger cool pad to help with heat soak and cooling the air and fuel mixture that pad will suck the heat right out of the blower in between runs at the track
You know it's going to be a good video when you learn something just by reading the title
Jason deserves way more subs
Always love your videos! Thing to make your future videos better: black and brown (and purple by a lesser degree) aren't easy to discern in a video like this. Use red/green/blue and the words in black next time :)
TL;DR
AC cools intercooler, denser air+more fuel = more bang
That's cool. Our hybrid buses do the same thing to cool the battery packs on the roof.
Very nice explanation with a straightforward diagram :D
Great job yet again!
For some reason, I was thinking in the 80s-90s a Merc used a similar system but found it ultimately was unreliable (probably due to the refrigerants we had at the time)
I always find it confusing when people dislike factual videos. "I DISLIKE YOUR VIDEO BECAUSE IT TOO ACCURATELY DEPICTS HOW THINGS WORK. IT'S LESS MAGICAL AND I WANT MY STUFF TO BE MAGICAL!!!" Only reason I can come up with.
You can do the samething with compressed air. :) no parasitical losses from the ac compressor.
Killer Chiller has been offering this technology for well over a decade.
It seems to me that it would work better if the charge air bypasses the intercooler when not at full throttle, so it can store some coldness for when it's needed. Also bypass the radiator when liquid temperature is lower than ambient.
I tried something like this on my Impala, ran a hose from my vent through the firewall to the air cleaner. Needless to say it didn't work at all.
Probably one of my favorite videos
Would like a video on how to make a supercharger more efficient if possible - taking 90hp to drive that thing is unreal.
I have a 2500hd Duramax that loves to get +230 when towing up hill, I've always wondered why the GM engineers don't put a AC By-pass system to send the AC Coolant to the Turbo Intercooler during heavy engine loads? This would significantly lower the incoming air temperature. Or place a AC Radiator (cool) in front of the Radiator to cool the incoming air.
My Thermodynamics class finally paid off! I know what R134-a is and states of liquid and gas. Them huge tables of values.
This will probably be used as an aftermarket performance part at some point in the future.
Use your mega board for engine diagrams!
Your annotations look squished!
❤️🔰🇯🇵
I agree that is smart engineering. But I always had that mentality that the more parts you add to a system, better the chances thay one of those part will break.
I had a similar idea to boost power on my Focus. Its relatively underpowered for how much weight shes carrying around.
I wanted to use an electric motor to run the compressor so it doesn't take power away from the engine itself. Then it would be at matter of piping it into the intake. Maybe even a small electric air compressor to make a lil boost.
Im not sure if it'd be worth all the trouble, it was just an idea I had while high and contemplating how to make more power without a turbo or blower.
I thought about getting rid of the ac all together and putting a Rotrex in its place, but I live in Texas and the summers get hot AF.
How do they prevent moisture build up from condensation? Or is it just that hot that they don't have to worry about condensation getting in? :P
The Dodge SRT team has outdone everyone, and I love it. MoPaR or no car baby.
Nice diagram! Good explanation- thank you.
Could have sworn older northstar engines used ac to cool the air for the intake years ago.
great video. thought I think next time you need to use more distinct marker colors, those colors are too similar.
Cool video. I wonder how this compares to the efficiency of using an additional injector at the front end of the supercharger for cooling the air charge. I know 90s Toyota used to do this and they called it the 7th injector and they just sprayed raw fuel inside of the supercharger to keep the fuel cool.
This idea is good to cool my transmission fluid
Don't much care for a Challenger but that's a hell of a system!
The NHRA should just build a separate drag strip with shade covering the 1/4 mile & foam padding on each side so Demon owners can race in comfort with a/c & Starbuck's
Isn't that how you do it? I know I do. But you forgot to mention that I'm also listening to the radio and eating a Slim Jim.
I always dream of a way to use the exhaust heat to run an absorption chiller . This has been used in gas turbine generation to cool hot ambient air to 55 degrees f to eliminate the loss of 1 megawatt due to hot entering air into a Cf6 size turbine
Would a water injection unit do the same thing as the A/C? Or is water injection just better for turbo engines?
You will get about 8 mpg street 11 highway lol
So? I got about 12 city and 16 highway in a heavily modified car, I love smoking cars that cost $100k+ more than a little gas mileage. I think I got about 3 or 4 mpg or less when on the drag strip!
Noah cross i drive a 550 hp Cammed Escalade that runs only on 93 octane, i don't think prius would interest me. Nice try tho
Noah cross because........ That's why.
Noah cross yeah it wasn't meant to be argued.
0.1mpg on the drag strip...
I had this idea years ago 😂
manikdj123 me and friends also talked about it and i always said if i was by smokey yunicks " best damn garage on daytona" when he was there id talk to him about it but i was always awe struck when id get around smokey...
Hi Jason. Can you actually explain how the Power Chiller itself works?
I'm assuming that the refrigerant cycles through that rectangle box like a radiator, and the intercooler coolant passes through it? I'd like to see a cutaway of that Power Chiller.
they were probably using R134a, which can really only get your air down to 0C at the lowest, but that would be with a 26C ambient temp. Given the size of the cooling unit, I would say that to drop any more than 10C using the AC would mean going to a different gas, something like R404, which can go way below 0C. Fine for a track car, but at what point do the gains become not worth it.
It would be fun to build a car with a giant compressed air tank in the trunk. You could get very cold intake air temps as the gas expanded out of the tank, and would not need a supercharger or intercooler, just a big-ass metering valve. Plus, you would be able to reduce flow work on the intake stroke, maybe even push down on the piston during intake like a compressed-air engine, at-least at low rpm.
Jess Stuart weight might negate the power advantages though
You stated this is the first time this power chiller has been used in a production vehical, I have a chiller that looks very similar in my srt6 crossfire. I have had the car a couple months and was going to remove all the extras to save weight, and a tuner told me that this system is excellent at cooling the air. I can not find anything on the internet that explains it, can you help ? thank you for all the excellent videos, you are better than a college!
This is a crazy system
the A/C system = power chiller is a DENSO system FYI. Also, A/C system are not as parasitic as they used to be, most systems are now very efficient!
Can you do a video on how a trans brake works?
Autoline This Week (episode 2121) did an interview with Chris Cowland (Director of Advanced and SRT Powertrain at FCA) and he said that the idea to use the A/C system came from the Advanced engineering group (and not the SRT group) and they think that it *may* be a future technology to achieve better fuel efficiency in other types of ICEs that aren't meant just to chase power. How would that work?
gee that was a bit long-winded, you know how you compress the intake air with a turbo but bring it back to ambient with the "inter-cooler" to keep the air dense ? well now you go a step lower by actually refrigerating the air with an AC system to make the air even denser for the same pressure and so get even more air into the engine and more air/mix means a bigger bang and more power.
Not new, this has existed for a long time.
Your videos and explanations are awesome, thank you.
ive been using AC to try and make power since i was 18. took some hose and redirected the ac that would go to feet to my an enclosed box where my filter sat in. never tested it to see if it made power lil
I've always wondered why street cars don't do this more often. I just assumed it was due to extra cost.
Marshall+ and the reliability penalty of making the car more complex
Efficiency. Oil is expensive now, and climate change is upon us, so most people want efficient cars, even at the expense of performance. Complexity and cost can be a factor too. More moving parts mean higher maintenance costs, and lower reliability.
This system uses engine power to increase the amount of fuel the engine can burn. That increases power, but decreases efficiency. Turbochargers are far more efficient, they use mostly the otherwise lost energy in the exhaust gas, and they have better thermal efficiency too. The boost in power allows a smaller, lighter engine, which is good for efficiency and more than offsets the energy loss of the turbo. That's why they are used on modern engines. For example my current car has a 1.4l twin charged engine, which is 35% more powerful, has 70% more torque, and still about 10% more efficient then my previous car's naturally aspirated 1.6l engine. The new 1.2l version has about the same performance as the old 1.6l one.
But now this whole thing is irrelevant. If you want either power or efficiency, just go electric. The Tesla Model S P100D ludicrous+ is just a tiny bit slower, but it's a luxury car and it's engine has 1 moving part, and the whole powertrain has around 20. It's far superior in almost every way, probably the best car ever. Or if you don't have that much money, the Model 3 just came out at $35,000 (before incentives), and it still can beat most sport cars. The only issues is that the waiting list is so long, if you order one now, you won't get it before 2019.