I think why this case has fascinated people for so many years, at least partly, is the way the body was bisected and posed. Also, Elizabeth was transient, at least in California, so that adds to the mystery.
This author has hardwood flooring. Some carpeting could neutralize her screeching. So glad to have to have some cotton to soften the auditory assaulting. She sounds like the lady who co-wrote the book about Rennes le Chateau and the Holy Grail stories.
It's the manner of her death and the way she was posed and ghoulish absence of blood . And the fact the murderer was never caught. That's what holds us now as well as then to this case.
@@silentwitness536I'm pretty sure the medical examiner determined she had been exsanguinated. The lack of blood wasn't just beacuse she had been moved. Her body must have been washed since the horrific bisection alone would have left her a bloody mess, not to mention all the other various wounds and lacerations all over her body and face. She should have been covered in blood head to toe.
Obviously. That was done elsewhere. My point is, no blood, means she wasnt killed there. She was killed elsewhere and dumped. I was replying to the "ghoulish" nature of it. She wasnted killed by ghouls, or some supernatural terror. She was killed by a smart person, most likely a doctor (perhaps Dr Walter Bayley), who drained her in his HOME SURGERY.@@stitcherywitchery8611
Yes! And why would the killer leave so much blood and feces, especially if he was known there and stayed there after? It makes no sense. Also, whoever killed Short was meticulous about scrubbing her body so no evidence was left on her body. Then why would the same person leave clothes, blood and feces? I love how only the men were "predators," according to Eatwell. Elizabeth Short was a pure, manipulative predator of men so she didn't have to work like a normal person.
@@MarilynFromTarotClarity There's the theory that she was part of Brenda Allen's prostitution ring. This explains why she never had a boyfriend, but managed to financially survive, while staying temporarily at many Men's apartments/hotel rooms. Or being driven around a lot by men she didnt date, as they were her security, driving her to a customer. Theres a strong theory she wasnt killed at the astor, she was killed at Allen's bungalow (brothel) on Catalina street, and customers were also taken to the nearby Ambassador hotel. Two police found a group of men covered in blood, but they were protected from up on high, and werent prosecuted or even brought in for questioning. Two of those men were Bugsy Seigel henchmen. Dillon and Astor hotel angle was just a red herring by corrupt police. These police were actual organised crime/homocide detectives and NOT the prostitution squad. Interesting.
I love that she says, "The London Ripper", rather than "Jack". This murder, methinks, in all my studies on it, was, in the killer's mind, a work of art. Sick.
No one mentions this but george hodell actually worked, when he was young, as a sort of crime scene reporter for a newspaper. he would attend them with police. He would describe the scene in ... a very artistic literary way ......
it was george hodel. i totally disagree with her, but that’s okay. i like thinking over theories. true crime is my heart, and this channel keeps it beating! so happy i came upon it last week
i think GH did it too. I think he performed an illegal bortion on her, or tried to fix her deformity "down there". he failed and his massive ego had to wipe away the error. He made it appear insane, to throw police off the scene that he, a respectable surgeon, wouldnt do that.
The Hodel books are really a bit threadbare on real evidence and dialled past 100 on the quack theory. I think he lost me the moment he implies you can cut out names in famous paintings that spell Hodel.... the two investigations are miles apart in terms of quality and aim.
Hodel is an interesting read. He was supposedly a police officer and ought to know that evidence should lead to an offender and not an offender being fitted to evidence. I do not think that his father did this crime.
@@MarilynFromTarotClarity The Black Dahlia was an historic murder and a closed case... Steve Hodel would've joined the LAPD at least 2 decades after the murder, so I'm sure he'd heard of it, but it makes sense he wouldn't've known many details...
I could understand what she was saying but what was off-putting was the bulldozing force of her speech, like someone who talks w/o reading the room or heeding the other person. If she ever stopped to draw breath, one could pose a question. She also restates what’s already known: people who come to this channel have some knowledge of the case. I lost interest; headache, trying to track where she was taking her points. A real shame, bc Most Notorious usually does a good job and posts interesting interviews with good authors.
Fascinating interview and I have to say for me case still not totally proven though I would say its either Dillan/Hansen or Hodel. What is convincing here is the Aster Hotel murder location. Ms Eatwell has conducted odd interviews and had strange people contact her, but then similar oddities have happened to author Hodel. Love your voice, Most Notorious!
I admit I didn't give this my full attention so have to listen again to give a valid opinion, but I agree that there were many oddities and coincidences in the Hodel case. It was difficult for me to understand what Ms Eatwell was saying at times because of the quality of the connection on her end. Most Notorious does have a great voice and asks good questions.
@@Catbooks it's hard to listen to. She never stops for a breath. Hodel has found out a lot more since his first book. John Gilmore also has a book worth reading.
Finder of Fact I think her theory is the most compelling, that Leslie Dillan was the killer, especially since he knew that the rose tattoo was cut out of Elizabeth Short and put elsewhere in her body, a horrific detail that only the police and true killer knew about.
When Ms. Eatwell was describing the “Gangster Squad” as part of the LAPD, she mentioned how they would take people out and throw or push them off cliffs. That visual gave me a flashback to the Nick Nolte movie, Mulholland Falls.I guess the “Falls” weren’t exactly accidental.
If Deriver came up with a profile for the Babes of Inglewood case, how can the Dahlia case be considered the second case, outside the Ripper, that a profile was established?
One question would be, why if these 3 were involved would they then send her belongings to the newspaper with the address book with Marc Hanson’s name on it?
Hodel considered Hansen to be his business partner or minion, but when it came to this overwhelming guilt he was feeling about what he had done, he couldn't have given a flying fruit loop if Hansen became a suspect. he'd just have his goons inside the LAPD smooth things over. For all intensive purposes, George Hill Hodel Jr. was "Dr. Fu Manchu"... also when he went to transport the body parts, they were not in the trunk, but were in the back seat of his car, he heard her whispering to him and he got spooked and dumped the body not far from the crime scene... combine syphilis with LSD and severe alcoholism and then you will begin to understand Dr. Hodel's state of mind when he heard poor Betty Short's ghostly voice whispering to him from the backseat...
He is an interesting subject , if you believe the book Sever ed. I read it and enjoyed it. There's so many suspects it's hard to know who's got it right ✌️
Has it ever been recorded, from whose home did Betty Bersinger make her phone call to the police? I'm struck by the parallel to Minotaur by Man Ray. I've seen the Man Ray in an exhibition of his work and it's chillingly similar. What was Dillon's motivation for leaving her body in that specific location on Norton St? The Glasgow Smile on Ms Short's face makes me wonder if any of the suspects had ever been part of a Scotland gang, or familiar with that as a gang motif? Perhaps Ms Short seemed expendable, maybe the murderer was familiar with her as a transient and never expected her to be identified. Maybe that's why he congratulated the LAPD. It seems that the murderer was probably reasonably well educated, not just because he had surgical skill, but for having knowledge of the Minotaur and the Glascow Smile. I don't think anyone will ever solve this case, but I hope they don't give up. Maybe some day evidence will be presented that is indisputable.
I think she was promised a high paid photo shoot and all the game that goes with it, and I think this happened in front of a group of rich men who wanted to view someone being murdered ...it's all very staged and seems to be done for some visual performance poor love x
My thoughts exactly. Perhaps a snuff type photo shoot. And since all the suspects seem to know each other. Why is it not possible for them all to be involved?
@@scottgilbert4827 I think youre wrong. I think GH is most likely the culprit. Just because his son is slightly deranged, over reaches, doesnt mean he's wrong. In fact, his slight mental ilness might be genetic...
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Reading about this young lady she seems to have been a sponge knowing just how far to go with men. In any event she must of did somebody or somebody thought she did him dirt.
I have tried to listen to this twice, but Ms. Eatwell's loud, strident voice was an assault on my ears. I'll give it a go later, perhaps after a couple of glasses of wine. As to why this case was so sensational, how many of the other women murdered at that time were found in a public field, cut in half and grotesquely mutilated?
Really drove me up a wall that neither the interviewer or Piu Eatwell could explain why the Black Dahlia case got so much attention at the time the murder took place. Nor why the case has had the longevity in popularity and garnered all this attention after all these many years and has done so decade after decade. Or why it continues to do so. Her opinion that Elizabeth Short wasn't all that pretty compared to other women of her day just doesn't make any sense as she was a stunning beauty then and even now. Also hearing her speak drove me to distraction so much so I felt I was on the telephone during a customer service call with a representative from India who speaks just enough English that you need an interpreter to explain what the hell they are saying. It's extremely annoying. Her speaking in a continuous stream monotone voice without so much as a pause or hesitation doesn't help the matter. However, I do love her writing and would have preferred to read a transcript of the interview. I have the Eatwell book and read it right after it first came out. I believe she makes a strong case for the Dillon/Hansen connection to the actual crime and the Astor Motel as the primary crime scene. But as with each set of suspects presented by each and every theorist since the crime was committed back in 1947 there are unexplained things that just do not connect. Like one commenter here said, what about the huge laundry bill on the crucial day if the bloody sheets were actually burned? I can't really buy into the whole story she presents, but I can't help but wonder if maybe Dillon and Hansen were involved. The whole George Hodel scenario presented by Steve Hodel insisting that his father committed the crime is a stretch too. For one Hodel was not a trained surgeon. Surgery was not his thing. To say anyone with the knowledge to field dress a deer or cleaning a freshly caught trout could have committed the crime does not see the real picture presented in this case. The specific knowledge necessary to bisect Miss Short without using a saw or harming any vital organs or someone to bisect a human being without damaging the vital organs speaks to the expertise with a scalpel and medical training regarding knowledge of human anatomy possessed by the perpetrator who did that to her. The other lacerations and wounds inflicted all over her body were so non-professional one can only imagine the rage that produced those injuries while the bisection speaks to a cool, calm and collected professionally trained individual. It makes one wonder if there were two or more persons who carried out these atrocities or one homicidal maniac with schizophrenia and multiple personalities with just enough lack of empathy for their fellow man (or in this case, women) manifesting a sociopath and a psychopath under the same skin. Taken in their totality, the wounds and harm done to Miss Short while she was still alive combined with those carried out post-mortem (after her death) speak to the personal nature of the crime. Whoever did this to her, knew her and was very angry and upset at her to say the very least. They were personally invested in her either emotionally or financially and perhaps both given the horiffic nature and extent of her wounds. Someone felt betrayed or taken for granted and perhaps she had shrugged their feelings or generosity off. This was revenge and pay back. It was not just a killing to take up some boring hours on a slow Wednesday. Somebody was extremely pissed off at Elizabeth Short and they took their time torturing her and mutilating her nearly beyond recognition.
@@lilacsunshine3044 I don't believe whoever did it did it alone. They must have had an accomplice and someone else probably helped cover it up which isn't a stretch considering how corrupt the LAPD and the LA County Sheriff's Office both were. Money people protect money people and people connected politically act with impunity. I am inclined to believe that someone in LE may have been involved if not in the actual committing of the horrendous crime then possibly in the cover up. The more I read and hear about GH the less I believe he had anything to do with it. I think Steve is reaching for his 15 seconds of fame even if it's at the expense of his deceased father. We will probably never know the truth. My dad was living in the LA area during the immediate post WWII years playing music in bands that played in nightclubs and dancehalls. I remember he always said that the crime would never be solved based on the scuttlebutt and talk on the streets he was privy to. If she had not been dismembered and left splayed out like she was in death left cut in half in among weeds and trash in a vacant lot in a residential district to be found by a mother pushing a baby stroller the case might have received no more than a brief blurb in the newspaper. Countless women were found dead with little evidence of how they died or who took their lives and nobody heard much about the cases. Much less getting coverage these days. Sadly, there's just too much missing information that was collected during the initial investigation that has been concealed, lost or gone missing, accidentally or purposefully destroyed. If GH was involved she knew something on him and he had others take care of her off the books for him and the cops looked the other way. Strangely she knew a lot of weird people from many walks of life, movers and shakers, posers and fakers, and many powerful people. Innocent people die when they get connected with those kind of people just because they see or hear something. Mafia corruption was very real at the time in LA and it was a BIG thing - they had their fingers on the pulse of city and county politics business, entertainment, cops, and the usual stuff: gambling, drugs, guns, prostitution and whatever else they could control. She probably got in the way and they made an example of her. Whoever it was they were very angry with her because her wounds were horrific and it was very personal matter. They wanted her to suffer and they wanted those who found her to get the message loud and clear. One reason nobody has talked all these years.
George Hodel excelled at surgery when he was in Medical School. He was a trained surgeon. However opening a VD Clinic that treated the Hollywood Elite was a lot less work and a lot more profitable than being a surgeon at a hospital. I'm also pretty sure he performed abortions for the right price too. And surgery was the only safe method for abortion back then. (now most women take an abortion pill, or get a shot that induces a miscarriage, if it is an early term abortion. women who get "Late Term" abortions get them because the fetus has died and it needs to be removed so the mother won't get a life threatening infection, or the mother's life is in danger, or the fetus has a condition that is incompatible with life. Like he/she doesn't have a heart or a brain. A late term "abortion" is a serious, heartbreaking , risky surgery. Women don't get abortions, particularly late term abortions; because they were too lazy or too stupid to use birth control)
@Alex Moldoveanu His so-called surgical skills acquired in medical school were not of the caliber to entitle him to work as a surgeon where the REAL money was instead of pimping aspirin and splinting bones, or his usual fare of back street variety of shade tree abortions conducted in el-cheapo motels. The truth is he wasn't good enough to work in the medical examiner's office or the morgue - much less a gig at a mortuary. One person who knew him said his skills were so low GH couldn't get a job at a local butcher shop. A LOT of people have received medical degrees that they paid for from medical schools they actually were enrolled in but that does not make them a surgeon. I doubt he could have gotten a part in one of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre style slasher films. The guy simply did not have what it takes.
Women were old fashioned back then and didnt over eat so she had a normal body size. I think youre comparing her to the fact that 80% of American Women are overweight, which would make Miss Short's body stunning now.
It's not the yelling that's annoying me, it's the "I'm a woman and I'm doing a list' intonation + cadence pattern that she uses at least a dozen times during the course of the interview. I couldn't be a woman, I'd have to listen to female friends listing things way too often. Before my son was born we decided if 'it' was a girl we'd call her Ellie... nice name Thank God he's Ryan and he rarely makes lists.
Thank you for that. I will read Piu's book. I saw a TV program in the Mysteries and Scandals series with A J Benza in which Benza said that Elizabeth Short had genitalia that had not properly matured so that she could not have normal sexual intercourse. Is this correct? If it is correct it might give a clue to the motivation behind her murder.
That idea was based on a mostly fictional book called “Severed”. She had a slightly smaller uterus, which may have been a problem for child bearing, but there is not evidence whatsoever to back up the “small genitalia” myth.
Read Donald Wolf’s book- he was a young boy and maps out an incredible theory with Lucky Luciano, which explains why she was posed and left where she was!
This is a terrible case.This case and Jack the Ripper always annoyed me because the killer didn’t face justice after causing so much pain.. I always thought the biggest clue was the area Elizabeth’s body was found and the manner of the display of the body..Why display the body in such a way.?Why not just bury it he body out of town or some other discreet way?But it wasn’t a dumped body,it was displayed..Some see this as some sort of dark art as the body seems posed..I think the body was posed but for the reason to send a message not to pose as dark art.Though the killer/killers wanted this body seen..So my tuppence worth view of this vile murder is..Sending a message to someone in the area or to all in the area. There was another murder in the area,as I understand..A lady was attacked and stamped to death..The words ‘F#ck you B.D’,was wrote in the victims lipstick across her body..Forgive me,as I can not remember this poor victims name.I believe the lady worked in real estate..But the ‘B.D’,in the crazed writing left on her body could,as others theory that the ‘B.D’,was ‘Black Dahlia’..This murder was carried out by two male attackers that were never caught..I agree with those who see a connection between the two murders.. The other big question that bothers me and is similar to Jack the Ripper is..Why did the killer/killers then just stop killing.?..I think they probably didn’t but moved on after taunting the police and press..Or wiped themselves out.Or was wiped out by others..Finally,did the killer/killers know Elizabeth before.?.There seems a revenge angle to this case..They might have known Elizabeth or knew of her..But this question,like so many other questions on this case is up for speculation and go on speculating.. Thank you Erik for your interviews.All the best to you and all from Blighty🇬🇧🇺🇸👍
She’s not pronouncing the name of the area correctly, the emphasis is on the second syllable not the first. Leimert park. LeiMERT Park not LEEmert Park.
Sorry... Not being mean, but if she had actually been beautiful, then she must have also been one of the most non-photogenic women in history. Beauty; just does not show in her photos; the poor lady looked quite odd to me.
Wasn't conventionally beautiful? Beauty is in the eye of beholder? Lauren Bacall? Ingrid. She should have come up will better examples. BTW, how does interviewer look?
I think the interviewer was correct in saying Elizabeth Short not being a conventional beauty. But she certainly used what she had to look mysterious and extremely attractive. Her hair was black and she had pale skin, which looked really exotic. She also wore almost exclusively black clothing which wasn’t the norm for the 1940s. I don’t think the author meant it as an insult to Elizabeth Short. Marilyn Monroe was a pretty girl/woman. But she wasn’t considered terribly special looking until she had platinum blonde hair and had extensive plastic surgery (nose job, chin implant, brow lift that created the look to her eyelids of being sort of half closed.) Her makeup, though it looked to most people like she just had black eyeliner, mascara and red lipstick, was actually quite elaborate. And it really accented her features so she looked really gorgeous. Hollywood Beauty was not about natural beauty at all. Dita Von Teese wrote a book about how she was a natural blonde and was from Michigan and wasn’t especially pretty growing up. It wasn’t until she dyed her hair black, and styled herself as a 1940’s pinup, that people suddenly took notice of her. The book is called “Your Beauty Mark: The Ultimate Guide to Eccentric Beauty”. And also has contributions from other people who also recreated themselves and natural, conventional beauty had nothing to do with it.
@@katrinaolsen2444 Katrian i disagree. I think Norma Jean before she became MM was very beautiful. She was seen working in a factory and picture taken, She had reddish curly hair and was absolutely lovely, I think in sie ways better than the glamorous movie star she became,.ES was very pretty,,,,,,,.If these two women arent considered beautiful I don't know who would be,
It couldn't be George Hodel...he had no guts for doing that He and his dreams for beeing evil.. It was just fancy imagination. Leslie Dillon was one of them no doubt...
According his son and former Los Angeles Police Officer/Detective Steve Hodel and his daughter Tamar: he was Sadist. George Hodel was also arrested and went on trial for raping and molesting his daughter, Tamar. He was acquitted, because one of the witnesses to him raping/molesting Tamar recanted her statement. And his defense attorney convinced the jury that Tamar was just "seeking attention" and made up the whole thing. (Like any girl would "seek attention", particularly in the 1940s by falsely claiming her father raped her repeatedly) George Hodel was also close friends with famed Surrealist Photographer, Man Ray. Who was also a known sadist. After George Hodel was acquitted of raping his daughter, Tamar, he immediately moved to the Philippines for the next 40 years. (1950-1990). Why would a wealthy doctor, who lived in an architecturally significant house, who had rich and famous friends; flee the country? And stay away for 40 years? His friends didn't desert him when he was charged with raping his daughter. He had succeeded in making her look like an attention seeking liar. Whoever cut Elizabeth Short in half, had to be a skilled surgeon. A Hemicorporectomy ( the official name of what cutting a human body in half, surgically) isn't easily done. George Hodel had excelled in surgery before he decided that there was better money and less work involved in opening a VD Clinic for the Hollywood Elite.
This woman has an irritating voice, personality and world view, as well as probably being wrong about this case.....this episode of the podcast should be a skip to anyone reading the comments before listening.
I couldn't understand a word she said not one word. When ever you have these British authors on their you need subtitles nobody can understand that crap! Damnation!
I think why this case has fascinated people for so many years, at least partly, is the way the body was bisected and posed. Also, Elizabeth was transient, at least in California, so that adds to the mystery.
The most convoluted version I have ever heard. Why would the motel have a huge laundry bill on the crucial day if the bloody sheets were burned?
This author has hardwood flooring. Some carpeting could neutralize her screeching. So glad to have to have some cotton to soften the auditory assaulting.
She sounds like the lady who co-wrote the book about Rennes le Chateau and the Holy Grail stories.
am hooked on this channel
It's the manner of her death and the way she was posed and ghoulish absence of blood . And the fact the murderer was never caught. That's what holds us now as well as then to this case.
lack of blood simply denotes movement of the body from somewhere else.
@@silentwitness536I'm pretty sure the medical examiner determined she had been exsanguinated. The lack of blood wasn't just beacuse she had been moved. Her body must have been washed since the horrific bisection alone would have left her a bloody mess, not to mention all the other various wounds and lacerations all over her body and face. She should have been covered in blood head to toe.
Obviously. That was done elsewhere. My point is, no blood, means she wasnt killed there. She was killed elsewhere and dumped. I was replying to the "ghoulish" nature of it. She wasnted killed by ghouls, or some supernatural terror. She was killed by a smart person, most likely a doctor (perhaps Dr Walter Bayley), who drained her in his HOME SURGERY.@@stitcherywitchery8611
As for the murder occurring at the Aster, wouldn't the brutal torture of a woman in a cheap motel have been overheard through thin walls?
Yes! And why would the killer leave so much blood and feces, especially if he was known there and stayed there after? It makes no sense.
Also, whoever killed Short was meticulous about scrubbing her body so no evidence was left on her body. Then why would the same person leave clothes, blood and feces?
I love how only the men were "predators," according to Eatwell. Elizabeth Short was a pure, manipulative predator of men so she didn't have to work like a normal person.
Not if she was drugged.
@@silentwitness536 Chilling thought. You're right.
@@MarilynFromTarotClarity There's the theory that she was part of Brenda Allen's prostitution ring. This explains why she never had a boyfriend, but managed to financially survive, while staying temporarily at many Men's apartments/hotel rooms. Or being driven around a lot by men she didnt date, as they were her security, driving her to a customer. Theres a strong theory she wasnt killed at the astor, she was killed at Allen's bungalow (brothel) on Catalina street, and customers were also taken to the nearby Ambassador hotel. Two police found a group of men covered in blood, but they were protected from up on high, and werent prosecuted or even brought in for questioning. Two of those men were Bugsy Seigel henchmen. Dillon and Astor hotel angle was just a red herring by corrupt police. These police were actual organised crime/homocide detectives and NOT the prostitution squad. Interesting.
I love that she says, "The London Ripper", rather than "Jack". This murder, methinks, in all my studies on it, was, in the killer's mind, a work of art. Sick.
No one mentions this but george hodell actually worked, when he was young, as a sort of crime scene reporter for a newspaper. he would attend them with police. He would describe the scene in ... a very artistic literary way ......
WONDERFUL interview
thank you
it was george hodel. i totally disagree with her, but that’s okay. i like thinking over theories. true crime is my heart, and this channel keeps it beating! so happy i came upon it last week
Steve Hodel is full of crap.
@@scottgilbert4827 Why?I think it prob was GH.
i think GH did it too. I think he performed an illegal bortion on her, or tried to fix her deformity "down there". he failed and his massive ego had to wipe away the error. He made it appear insane, to throw police off the scene that he, a respectable surgeon, wouldnt do that.
What about the police bugs in the walls of Hodel's house?
I have read the same and spending time listing to Hodel's conversation sure indicates that the authorities considered him a prime person of interest.
Lucille Ball's daughter, Lucy Arnaz, looked like Elizabeth Short.
The Hodel books are really a bit threadbare on real evidence and dialled past 100 on the quack theory. I think he lost me the moment he implies you can cut out names in famous paintings that spell Hodel.... the two investigations are miles apart in terms of quality and aim.
Hodel is an interesting read. He was supposedly a police officer and ought to know that evidence should lead to an offender and not an offender being fitted to evidence. I do not think that his father did this crime.
Exactly. Steve Hodel seems to be under the impression that every death in California from the 40s to the 60s was perpetrated by his father.
@@scottgilbert4827 LOL. I agree. Next he'll come out with a book on how is father was also Jack the Ripper.
How could SH claim he knew nothing of the case of he had been an LA cop? Doesn't make sense.
@@MarilynFromTarotClarity The Black Dahlia was an historic murder and a closed case... Steve Hodel would've joined the LAPD at least 2 decades after the murder, so I'm sure he'd heard of it, but it makes sense he wouldn't've known many details...
I could understand what she was saying but what was off-putting was the bulldozing force of her speech, like someone who talks w/o reading the room or heeding the other person. If she ever stopped to draw breath, one could pose a question. She also restates what’s already known: people who come to this channel have some knowledge of the case. I lost interest; headache, trying to track where she was taking her points. A real shame, bc Most Notorious usually does a good job and posts interesting interviews with good authors.
Fascinating interview and I have to say for me case still not totally proven though I would say its either Dillan/Hansen or Hodel. What is convincing here is the Aster Hotel murder location. Ms Eatwell has conducted odd interviews and had strange people contact her, but then similar oddities have happened to author Hodel. Love your voice, Most Notorious!
I admit I didn't give this my full attention so have to listen again to give a valid opinion, but I agree that there were many oddities and coincidences in the Hodel case. It was difficult for me to understand what Ms Eatwell was saying at times because of the quality of the connection on her end. Most Notorious does have a great voice and asks good questions.
@Shirley Bailey What holes? Can you point me to a RUclips that clearly outlines the problems with the Hodel theory?
@@Catbooks it's hard to listen to. She never stops for a breath. Hodel has found out a lot more since his first book. John Gilmore also has a book worth reading.
Finder of Fact
I think her theory is the most compelling, that Leslie Dillan was the killer, especially since he knew that the rose tattoo was cut out of Elizabeth Short and put elsewhere in her body, a horrific detail that only the police and true killer knew about.
@Shirley Bailey What would lead you to leap to the silly assumption I had?
????? So why was she killed like this.??? This is the most all over theory ever.and so much invention
you're talking obout how this murder was different from the murders of other girls during this time...um...she was freakin' cut in half!!!
When Ms. Eatwell was describing the “Gangster Squad” as part of the LAPD, she mentioned how they would take people out and throw or push them off cliffs. That visual gave me a flashback to the Nick Nolte movie, Mulholland Falls.I guess the “Falls” weren’t exactly accidental.
Exactly right. I remember the movie well.
Pacific Beach, San Diego, California, January 1947.
If Deriver came up with a profile for the Babes of Inglewood case, how can the Dahlia case be considered the second case, outside the Ripper, that a profile was established?
One question would be, why if these 3 were involved would they then send her belongings to the newspaper with the address book with Marc Hanson’s name on it?
Diversion?
Hodel considered Hansen to be his business partner or minion, but when it came to this overwhelming guilt he was feeling about what he had done, he couldn't have given a flying fruit loop if Hansen became a suspect. he'd just have his goons inside the LAPD smooth things over. For all intensive purposes, George Hill Hodel Jr. was "Dr. Fu Manchu"... also when he went to transport the body parts, they were not in the trunk, but were in the back seat of his car, he heard her whispering to him and he got spooked and dumped the body not far from the crime scene... combine syphilis with LSD and severe alcoholism and then you will begin to understand Dr. Hodel's state of mind when he heard poor Betty Short's ghostly voice whispering to him from the backseat...
Aggie Underwood is my hero!!
Why isn't Piu Eatwell a dietitian?
hee hee
Why? Are you suffering from obesity or something?
this comment is underappreciated.
That cant be her real name surely. If it is, I'll eat my hat. Just not my pui.
What about Jack Anderson Wilson?
He is an interesting subject , if you believe the book Sever ed. I read it and enjoyed it. There's so many suspects it's hard to know who's got it right ✌️
Elizabeth was found in a field not on a sidewalk.
Has it ever been recorded, from whose home did Betty Bersinger make her phone call to the police? I'm struck by the parallel to Minotaur by Man Ray. I've seen the Man Ray in an exhibition of his work and it's chillingly similar. What was Dillon's motivation for leaving her body in that specific location on Norton St? The Glasgow Smile on Ms Short's face makes me wonder if any of the suspects had ever been part of a Scotland gang, or familiar with that as a gang motif? Perhaps Ms Short seemed expendable, maybe the murderer was familiar with her as a transient and never expected her to be identified. Maybe that's why he congratulated the LAPD. It seems that the murderer was probably reasonably well educated, not just because he had surgical skill, but for having knowledge of the Minotaur and the Glascow Smile. I don't think anyone will ever solve this case, but I hope they don't give up. Maybe some day evidence will be presented that is indisputable.
Confusing and not very informative
I think she was promised a high paid photo shoot and all the game that goes with it, and I think this happened in front of a group of rich men who wanted to view someone being murdered ...it's all very staged and seems to be done for some visual performance poor love x
very good point!
My thoughts exactly.
Perhaps a snuff type photo shoot.
And since all the suspects seem to know each other.
Why is it not possible for them all to be involved?
can you fit more ads in this,
Yes, room for lots more, I'm sure. But I'm not Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade by a long shot.
It was George Hodel
Wrong. I've read his books in the Black Dahlia case. Way too many holes in his "facts".
@@scottgilbert4827 I think it was prob him.
@@scottgilbert4827 I think youre wrong. I think GH is most likely the culprit. Just because his son is slightly deranged, over reaches, doesnt mean he's wrong. In fact, his slight mental ilness might be genetic...
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It's more than obvious why this case has mythic status and ridiculous to say there's no reason it did.
Reading about this young lady she seems to have been a sponge knowing just how far to go with men. In any event she must of did somebody or somebody thought she did him dirt.
She did not deserve that.
She certainly did.
I have tried to listen to this twice, but Ms. Eatwell's loud, strident voice was an assault on my ears. I'll give it a go later, perhaps after a couple of glasses of wine. As to why this case was so sensational, how many of the other women murdered at that time were found in a public field, cut in half and grotesquely mutilated?
Interesting but this is very hard to listen to.
I thought it was just me. The fact that she sounds like she’s in a tin can doesn’t help.
Really drove me up a wall that neither the interviewer or Piu Eatwell could explain why the Black Dahlia case got so much attention at the time the murder took place. Nor why the case has had the longevity in popularity and garnered all this attention after all these many years and has done so decade after decade. Or why it continues to do so. Her opinion that Elizabeth Short wasn't all that pretty compared to other women of her day just doesn't make any sense as she was a stunning beauty then and even now.
Also hearing her speak drove me to distraction so much so I felt I was on the telephone during a customer service call with a representative from India who speaks just enough English that you need an interpreter to explain what the hell they are saying. It's extremely annoying. Her speaking in a continuous stream monotone voice without so much as a pause or hesitation doesn't help the matter. However, I do love her writing and would have preferred to read a transcript of the interview.
I have the Eatwell book and read it right after it first came out. I believe she makes a strong case for the Dillon/Hansen connection to the actual crime and the Astor Motel as the primary crime scene. But as with each set of suspects presented by each and every theorist since the crime was committed back in 1947 there are unexplained things that just do not connect. Like one commenter here said, what about the huge laundry bill on the crucial day if the bloody sheets were actually burned?
I can't really buy into the whole story she presents, but I can't help but wonder if maybe Dillon and Hansen were involved.
The whole George Hodel scenario presented by Steve Hodel insisting that his father committed the crime is a stretch too. For one Hodel was not a trained surgeon. Surgery was not his thing. To say anyone with the knowledge to field dress a deer or cleaning a freshly caught trout could have committed the crime does not see the real picture presented in this case. The specific knowledge necessary to bisect Miss Short without using a saw or harming any vital organs or someone to bisect a human being without damaging the vital organs speaks to the expertise with a scalpel and medical training regarding knowledge of human anatomy possessed by the perpetrator who did that to her.
The other lacerations and wounds inflicted all over her body were so non-professional one can only imagine the rage that produced those injuries while the bisection speaks to a cool, calm and collected professionally trained individual.
It makes one wonder if there were two or more persons who carried out these atrocities or one homicidal maniac with schizophrenia and multiple personalities with just enough lack of empathy for their fellow man (or in this case, women) manifesting a sociopath and a psychopath under the same skin.
Taken in their totality, the wounds and harm done to Miss Short while she was still alive combined with those carried out post-mortem (after her death) speak to the personal nature of the crime. Whoever did this to her, knew her and was very angry and upset at her to say the very least. They were personally invested in her either emotionally or financially and perhaps both given the horiffic nature and extent of her wounds. Someone felt betrayed or taken for granted and perhaps she had shrugged their feelings or generosity off. This was revenge and pay back. It was not just a killing to take up some boring hours on a slow Wednesday. Somebody was extremely pissed off at Elizabeth Short and they took their time torturing her and mutilating her nearly beyond recognition.
GH may have had help,I suspect he was involved but may have had people help him,
@@lilacsunshine3044 I don't believe whoever did it did it alone. They must have had an accomplice and someone else probably helped cover it up which isn't a stretch considering how corrupt the LAPD and the LA County Sheriff's Office both were. Money people protect money people and people connected politically act with impunity. I am inclined to believe that someone in LE may have been involved if not in the actual committing of the horrendous crime then possibly in the cover up. The more I read and hear about GH the less I believe he had anything to do with it. I think Steve is reaching for his 15 seconds of fame even if it's at the expense of his deceased father. We will probably never know the truth. My dad was living in the LA area during the immediate post WWII years playing music in bands that played in nightclubs and dancehalls. I remember he always said that the crime would never be solved based on the scuttlebutt and talk on the streets he was privy to. If she had not been dismembered and left splayed out like she was in death left cut in half in among weeds and trash in a vacant lot in a residential district to be found by a mother pushing a baby stroller the case might have received no more than a brief blurb in the newspaper. Countless women were found dead with little evidence of how they died or who took their lives and nobody heard much about the cases. Much less getting coverage these days. Sadly, there's just too much missing information that was collected during the initial investigation that has been concealed, lost or gone missing, accidentally or purposefully destroyed. If GH was involved she knew something on him and he had others take care of her off the books for him and the cops looked the other way. Strangely she knew a lot of weird people from many walks of life, movers and shakers, posers and fakers, and many powerful people. Innocent people die when they get connected with those kind of people just because they see or hear something. Mafia corruption was very real at the time in LA and it was a BIG thing - they had their fingers on the pulse of city and county politics business, entertainment, cops, and the usual stuff: gambling, drugs, guns, prostitution and whatever else they could control. She probably got in the way and they made an example of her. Whoever it was they were very angry with her because her wounds were horrific and it was very personal matter. They wanted her to suffer and they wanted those who found her to get the message loud and clear. One reason nobody has talked all these years.
George Hodel excelled at surgery when he was in Medical School. He was a trained surgeon. However opening a VD Clinic that treated the Hollywood Elite was a lot less work and a lot more profitable than being a surgeon at a hospital. I'm also pretty sure he performed abortions for the right price too. And surgery was the only safe method for abortion back then. (now most women take an abortion pill, or get a shot that induces a miscarriage, if it is an early term abortion. women who get "Late Term" abortions get them because the fetus has died and it needs to be removed so the mother won't get a life threatening infection, or the mother's life is in danger, or the fetus has a condition that is incompatible with life. Like he/she doesn't have a heart or a brain. A late term "abortion" is a serious, heartbreaking , risky surgery. Women don't get abortions, particularly late term abortions; because they were too lazy or too stupid to use birth control)
@Alex Moldoveanu His so-called surgical skills acquired in medical school were not of the caliber to entitle him to work as a surgeon where the REAL money was instead of pimping aspirin and splinting bones, or his usual fare of back street variety of shade tree abortions conducted in el-cheapo motels. The truth is he wasn't good enough to work in the medical examiner's office or the morgue - much less a gig at a mortuary. One person who knew him said his skills were so low GH couldn't get a job at a local butcher shop. A LOT of people have received medical degrees that they paid for from medical schools they actually were enrolled in but that does not make them a surgeon. I doubt he could have gotten a part in one of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre style slasher films. The guy simply did not have what it takes.
Women were old fashioned back then and didnt over eat so she had a normal body size. I think youre comparing her to the fact that 80% of American Women are overweight, which would make Miss Short's body stunning now.
Why is she yelling?!
It's not the yelling that's annoying me, it's the "I'm a woman and I'm doing a list' intonation + cadence pattern that she uses at least a dozen times during the course of the interview. I couldn't be a woman, I'd have to listen to female friends listing things way too often. Before my son was born we decided if 'it' was a girl we'd call her Ellie... nice name Thank God he's Ryan and he rarely makes lists.
Thank you for that. I will read Piu's book. I saw a TV program in the Mysteries and Scandals series with A J Benza in which Benza said that Elizabeth Short had genitalia that had not properly matured so that she could not have normal sexual intercourse. Is this correct? If it is correct it might give a clue to the motivation behind her murder.
That is a myth.
That idea was based on a mostly fictional book called “Severed”. She had a slightly smaller uterus, which may have been a problem for child bearing, but there is not evidence whatsoever to back up the “small genitalia” myth.
@@pontius2000 Thank you for clearing that up.
Read Donald Wolf’s book- he was a young boy and maps out an incredible theory with Lucky Luciano, which explains why she was posed and left where she was!
This is a terrible case.This case and Jack the Ripper always annoyed me because the killer didn’t face justice after causing so much pain..
I always thought the biggest clue was the area Elizabeth’s body was found and the manner of the display of the body..Why display the body in such a way.?Why not just bury it he body out of town or some other discreet way?But it wasn’t a dumped body,it was displayed..Some see this as some sort of dark art as the body seems posed..I think the body was posed but for the reason to send a message not to pose as dark art.Though the killer/killers wanted this body seen..So my tuppence worth view of this vile murder is..Sending a message to someone in the area or to all in the area.
There was another murder in the area,as I understand..A lady was attacked and stamped to death..The words ‘F#ck you B.D’,was wrote in the victims lipstick across her body..Forgive me,as I can not remember this poor victims name.I believe the lady worked in real estate..But the ‘B.D’,in the crazed writing left on her body could,as others theory that the ‘B.D’,was ‘Black Dahlia’..This murder was carried out by two male attackers that were never caught..I agree with those who see a connection between the two murders..
The other big question that bothers me and is similar to Jack the Ripper is..Why did the killer/killers then just stop killing.?..I think they probably didn’t but moved on after taunting the police and press..Or wiped themselves out.Or was wiped out by others..Finally,did the killer/killers know Elizabeth before.?.There seems a revenge angle to this case..They might have known Elizabeth or knew of her..But this question,like so many other questions on this case is up for speculation and go on speculating..
Thank you Erik for your interviews.All the best to you and all from Blighty🇬🇧🇺🇸👍
Dillon, when interviewed and asked about the woman that was recently murdered asked "Oh you mean the woman that was stomped to death"?......
She’s not pronouncing the name of the area correctly, the emphasis is on the second syllable not the first. Leimert park. LeiMERT Park not LEEmert Park.
Her voice is literally giving me a headache, the inflection she puts on her words is so high and harsh sounding that I can't finish listening.....
Sorry...
Not being mean, but if she had actually been beautiful, then she must have also been one of the most non-photogenic women in history.
Beauty; just does not show in her photos; the poor lady looked quite odd to me.
I think she was very pretty.
Wasn't conventionally beautiful? Beauty is in the eye of beholder? Lauren Bacall? Ingrid. She should have come up will better examples. BTW, how does interviewer look?
There is a reason I do audio podcasts only and not video. 😂
i was gonna say the same thing!
I think the interviewer was correct in saying Elizabeth Short not being a conventional beauty. But she certainly used what she had to look mysterious and extremely attractive. Her hair was black and she had pale skin, which looked really exotic. She also wore almost exclusively black clothing which wasn’t the norm for the 1940s. I don’t think the author meant it as an insult to Elizabeth Short. Marilyn Monroe was a pretty girl/woman. But she wasn’t considered terribly special looking until she had platinum blonde hair and had extensive plastic surgery (nose job, chin implant, brow lift that created the look to her eyelids of being sort of half closed.) Her makeup, though it looked to most people like she just had black eyeliner, mascara and red lipstick, was actually quite elaborate. And it really accented her features so she looked really gorgeous. Hollywood Beauty was not about natural beauty at all. Dita Von Teese wrote a book about how she was a natural blonde and was from Michigan and wasn’t especially pretty growing up. It wasn’t until she dyed her hair black, and styled herself as a 1940’s pinup, that people suddenly took notice of her. The book is called “Your Beauty Mark: The Ultimate Guide to Eccentric Beauty”. And also has contributions from other people who also recreated themselves and natural, conventional beauty had nothing to do with it.
I thnk ES was beautiful.
@@katrinaolsen2444 Katrian i disagree. I think Norma Jean before she became MM was very beautiful. She was seen working in a factory and picture taken, She had reddish curly hair and was absolutely lovely, I think in sie ways better than the glamorous movie star she became,.ES was very pretty,,,,,,,.If these two women arent considered beautiful I don't know who would be,
It couldn't be George Hodel...he had no guts for doing that
He and his dreams for beeing evil.. It was just fancy imagination.
Leslie Dillon was one of them no doubt...
According his son and former Los Angeles Police Officer/Detective Steve Hodel and his daughter Tamar: he was Sadist. George Hodel was also arrested and went on trial for raping and molesting his daughter, Tamar. He was acquitted, because one of the witnesses to him raping/molesting Tamar recanted her statement. And his defense attorney convinced the jury that Tamar was just "seeking attention" and made up the whole thing. (Like any girl would "seek attention", particularly in the 1940s by falsely claiming her father raped her repeatedly) George Hodel was also close friends with famed Surrealist Photographer, Man Ray. Who was also a known sadist. After George Hodel was acquitted of raping his daughter, Tamar, he immediately moved to the Philippines for the next 40 years. (1950-1990). Why would a wealthy doctor, who lived in an architecturally significant house, who had rich and famous friends; flee the country? And stay away for 40 years? His friends didn't desert him when he was charged with raping his daughter. He had succeeded in making her look like an attention seeking liar. Whoever cut Elizabeth Short in half, had to be a skilled surgeon. A Hemicorporectomy ( the official name of what cutting a human body in half, surgically) isn't easily done. George Hodel had excelled in surgery before he decided that there was better money and less work involved in opening a VD Clinic for the Hollywood Elite.
The author makes a very strong case for Leslie Dillon.
This woman has an irritating voice, personality and world view, as well as probably being wrong about this case.....this episode of the podcast should be a skip to anyone reading the comments before listening.
Nah, you're just a standard-issue doofus Republican.
I imagine there's a whole lot of people out there that don't like your voice , personality, or world views either. 😯
@@scottgilbert4827 But he's not on a podcast wanting people to hear his theories is he?
@@brainsareus Stop it,
@@lilacsunshine3044 Exactly. Sounds like a very young, brash fool when he uses the word "nah" and seems to need to attach this to politics.
I couldn't understand a word she said not one word. When ever you have these British authors on their you need subtitles nobody can understand that crap! Damnation!
No. You Americans need to learn actual English. Aussies and Kiwis and Canadians understand her fine.
@@silentwitness536 thank God I'm not one of them
@@mistervacation23 enjoy your minimum wage jobs, less than what we pay 15 year olds here.
@@silentwitness536 I got news for you I retired two years ago I don't need a job