I have used refractory cement mixed with steel fibers consolidated with a vibrating table made from an old van tyre and a cheap bench grinder motor with an offset balance shaft .three years of use and the refractory panells are like new No spalling or degrading .
If refractory cement is anything like regular as far as curing is concerned, a slow cure would make it stronger, i.e. keep it damp (e.g. damp sacking over the top if it dries too fast) rather than allow air movement. That is how ferrocement construction is strengthened.
I took them out of the forms after the first day. I not sure I remember, but I think I left them cure for a day or more before testing... I would have to look at the directions on the bucket again.
Maybe one can also add micro-balloons/glass bubbles. These are used as an additive to resins. They are microscopic glass balloons, very high volume to weight ratio and insulating. I'd also might add a bit of waterglass to the cement mix, maybe some sand too. Best results to have as little cavities between the granulate as possible ?
@@doubleMinnovations True. I've seen some guy in Australia tried a mix with only perlite and waterglass, which gave a somewhat brittle mixture, but held its form. In an open structure the binding between the granulate is minimal, so idealy one would fill the gaps with a finer granulate, or increase the bonding agent. Waterglass can be made at home cheap, but will complicate the process, or buy it from the shelf and pay way more. Cheers !
The only way to go is aircrete. 1 part portland 1 part water 6 parts foam Stir and pour. Been working with aircrete for years R factor for 1 inch is R6
Do you think this is equivalent to water glass material ?? I totally agree with you on costs. Everything seems to cost double minimum cost from a year ago. Just crazy for sure.
Water glass can be expensive too, and difficult and hazardous to use. Water glass is about the same as that 'ridgidizer' I used on the on the riser tube for the rocket stove water heater. If it was used with perlite, I think it would take quite a bit to fill in the voids...
@@doubleMinnovations What you said is so true. I found a cheaper way for waterglass. Some cat litter uses this as its main ingredient. About twenty five bucks for thirty pounds or so. The negative part is that it has colored beads mixed in that change color to tell the cat owner what problems the cats are having with a color change of the litter. I picked them out before I used the material years ago. That is all I remember Double M. That was long ago.
I can tell you Sir that the clear cat litter with small different color beads work perfect and cost about thirty dollars a large bag for WATERGLASS. All you have to do is remove the colored beads. Other people have not even removed that impurity beads. This is a buy of the century fella. Worked for me and withstands way hotter temperature than the bricks you are making fella. Sorry for the bad news on product information DM as I did not share my discovery with you. Worked for me beautifier Sir. @@doubleMinnovations
I think that's something that you would have to experiment with to find out. I would probably start with maybe 50% vermiculite... Trial and error to get to a good mix...
I'm wondering and guessing silica glass, whether store bought or DIY kitty litter and toilet pure lye cleaner method, might work better? Not related, though some of those forges methods might have some ideas and I'll share this if you ever get into microwaves... since the YT channel "Shake The Future" video titled "Diy Microwave Kiln - OUTDATED - New Video Coming October 2022" seems to be the best design for those microwave kilns. Anyways, a lot seem to use silica glass for the refractory adhesive in DIY bricks is common with perlite where some add plaster of paris or sand or clay or koa wool to the mixture. Higher temp firings refractory brick looks like they use alumina that is fired to sinter with like pool sand. I haven't looked into in a while since plans had changed to not focus on the pottery, forge and heat treating kiln work just yet. Though figured I'd share what came to memory and I can find on the net. Have a good day.
Thanks for sharing. I'm using the materials I'm familiar with, and pretty sure will have a good outcome. The Infrared coating is new to me, and am curious how that will work.
@@doubleMinnovations That infrared coating seems like a great idea as well. We'd use "kiln wash" which is like a white wash if you're familiar with basic masonary coatings or at least the ones I used on a short term mission trip in Ecuador where is like a quicklime paint. Not the same ingredients, though seems like both help reflect heat as well as protect. When I used to run the pottery kilns during my undergraduate program, we'd use the kiln wash to coat the carbide shelves, floor and seems like if I remember correct on the big gas kiln, the walls of the kiln to help reflect heat and prevent glaze bonding to the more expensive whats coated refractory surface. So yeah, that infrared coating is a great idea. I was actually thinking of you recently when watching a video on the masonary wood stoves and thinking adding a route above the burn chamber to go over a metal roof for a lower burn chamber double burn section before the upper "bread oven" top burn chamber. Was thinking might be more efficient along with adding the kao wool on the upper burn chamber top to help reflect more heat back down. Seem the infrared coating might be an easier way now you mention.
When I built my first rocket stove, I put a white refractory coating on the inside of riser tube. I don't remember what is was, but it didn't last long. It flaked off... I think the expanding and contracting with changing temps broke it apart.
@@doubleMinnovations it would be sweet if someone had a mold cast for a Batch Stove and then we could use your magic mix to just pour into the mold casting. Then just add a door and stove pipe. The issue of course is not just insulation but also the thermal mass set up. I saw someone pointing out in their experience bricks never explode - they just crack. So for thermal mass it seems like normal brick and clay and lime or something with sand. There is that Batch rocket stove channel but his vids are more like chat sessions without real DIY nuts and bolts. Then he sells his building design using the too expensive ceramic fiber. I didn't realize that the price had shot up but that is not surprising with all the FED pandemic money that bloated the "debt deflation." With my ceramic fiber hack to the wood stove - it has to be cold enough outside for me to get good draft. Otherwise the baffle was creating back smoke when I reload wood and the burn chamber was smaller - so I had to reload wood more. So I ended up taking out about half of the ceramic fiber.
I have used refractory cement mixed with steel fibers consolidated with a vibrating table made from an old van tyre and a cheap bench grinder motor with an offset balance shaft .three years of use and the refractory panells are like new No spalling or degrading .
If refractory cement is anything like regular as far as curing is concerned, a slow cure would make it stronger, i.e. keep it damp (e.g. damp sacking over the top if it dries too fast) rather than allow air movement. That is how ferrocement construction is strengthened.
I took them out of the forms after the first day. I not sure I remember, but I think I left them cure for a day or more before testing... I would have to look at the directions on the bucket again.
Maybe one can also add micro-balloons/glass bubbles. These are used as an additive to resins.
They are microscopic glass balloons, very high volume to weight ratio and insulating.
I'd also might add a bit of waterglass to the cement mix, maybe some sand too.
Best results to have as little cavities between the granulate as possible ?
I imagine a person could try all kinds of mixtures, to find the best. But you do want to keep it as simple and inexpensive as possible. Thanks
@@doubleMinnovations True. I've seen some guy in Australia tried a mix with only perlite and waterglass, which gave a somewhat brittle mixture, but held its form.
In an open structure the binding between the granulate is minimal, so idealy one would fill the gaps with a finer granulate, or increase the bonding agent. Waterglass can be made at home cheap, but will complicate the process, or buy it from the shelf and pay way more.
Cheers !
many thanks for doing this! I looked at the ceramic fiber board....wow
I thought it was high priced when I bought it. But now, oh brother!
Nice ideas there. Thanks for sharing. Keep us posted. I’ll be watching with anticipation.
Thanks for the comment!
The only way to go is aircrete.
1 part portland
1 part water
6 parts foam
Stir and pour.
Been working with aircrete for years
R factor for 1 inch is R6
Do you think this is equivalent to water glass material ?? I totally agree with you on costs. Everything seems to cost double minimum cost from a year ago. Just crazy for sure.
Water glass can be expensive too, and difficult and hazardous to use. Water glass is about the same as that 'ridgidizer' I used on the on the riser tube for the rocket stove water heater. If it was used with perlite, I think it would take quite a bit to fill in the voids...
@@doubleMinnovations What you said is so true. I found a cheaper way for waterglass. Some cat litter uses this as its main ingredient. About twenty five bucks for thirty pounds or so. The negative part is that it has colored beads mixed in that change color to tell the cat owner what problems the cats are having with a color change of the litter. I picked them out before I used the material years ago. That is all I remember Double M. That was long ago.
I can tell you Sir that the clear cat litter with small different color beads work perfect and cost about thirty dollars a large bag for WATERGLASS. All you have to do is remove the colored beads. Other people have not even removed that impurity beads. This is a buy of the century fella. Worked for me and withstands way hotter temperature than the bricks you are making fella. Sorry for the bad news on product information DM as I did not share my discovery with you. Worked for me beautifier Sir. @@doubleMinnovations
Thanks for sharing, great stuff as always. Cheers.
Thank you! Cheers!
Can you refuse them insulation from an old good water heater or other unit
Great ideas and suggestions! Thank you! I enjoy your videos!
Thanks for the kind comment JR!
👀 Glad i stumbled across your channel, very interesting!
Thanks for coming
Hi sir , I have a question , If I use vermiculite , refractory cement and clay pubble , what should be my volume ration of each ?
I think that's something that you would have to experiment with to find out. I would probably start with maybe 50% vermiculite... Trial and error to get to a good mix...
Perlite does not absorb water. It is glass. Could reinforce with basalt fiber mesh by wrapping all sides.
Nope; perlite doesn't absorb water. One reason I use it for high temp insulation.
I'm wondering and guessing silica glass, whether store bought or DIY kitty litter and toilet pure lye cleaner method, might work better? Not related, though some of those forges methods might have some ideas and I'll share this if you ever get into microwaves... since the YT channel "Shake The Future" video titled "Diy Microwave Kiln - OUTDATED - New Video Coming October 2022" seems to be the best design for those microwave kilns. Anyways, a lot seem to use silica glass for the refractory adhesive in DIY bricks is common with perlite where some add plaster of paris or sand or clay or koa wool to the mixture. Higher temp firings refractory brick looks like they use alumina that is fired to sinter with like pool sand. I haven't looked into in a while since plans had changed to not focus on the pottery, forge and heat treating kiln work just yet. Though figured I'd share what came to memory and I can find on the net. Have a good day.
Thanks for sharing. I'm using the materials I'm familiar with, and pretty sure will have a good outcome. The Infrared coating is new to me, and am curious how that will work.
@@doubleMinnovations That infrared coating seems like a great idea as well. We'd use "kiln wash" which is like a white wash if you're familiar with basic masonary coatings or at least the ones I used on a short term mission trip in Ecuador where is like a quicklime paint. Not the same ingredients, though seems like both help reflect heat as well as protect. When I used to run the pottery kilns during my undergraduate program, we'd use the kiln wash to coat the carbide shelves, floor and seems like if I remember correct on the big gas kiln, the walls of the kiln to help reflect heat and prevent glaze bonding to the more expensive whats coated refractory surface. So yeah, that infrared coating is a great idea. I was actually thinking of you recently when watching a video on the masonary wood stoves and thinking adding a route above the burn chamber to go over a metal roof for a lower burn chamber double burn section before the upper "bread oven" top burn chamber. Was thinking might be more efficient along with adding the kao wool on the upper burn chamber top to help reflect more heat back down. Seem the infrared coating might be an easier way now you mention.
When I built my first rocket stove, I put a white refractory coating on the inside of riser tube. I don't remember what is was, but it didn't last long. It flaked off... I think the expanding and contracting with changing temps broke it apart.
@@doubleMinnovations it would be sweet if someone had a mold cast for a Batch Stove and then we could use your magic mix to just pour into the mold casting. Then just add a door and stove pipe. The issue of course is not just insulation but also the thermal mass set up. I saw someone pointing out in their experience bricks never explode - they just crack. So for thermal mass it seems like normal brick and clay and lime or something with sand. There is that Batch rocket stove channel but his vids are more like chat sessions without real DIY nuts and bolts. Then he sells his building design using the too expensive ceramic fiber. I didn't realize that the price had shot up but that is not surprising with all the FED pandemic money that bloated the "debt deflation." With my ceramic fiber hack to the wood stove - it has to be cold enough outside for me to get good draft. Otherwise the baffle was creating back smoke when I reload wood and the burn chamber was smaller - so I had to reload wood more. So I ended up taking out about half of the ceramic fiber.
should use a plasticiser in the water to reduce it
I’m listening!
I will be continuing. Thanks