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Gimli and Legolas friendship doesn't come out of the blue. It started at the door in Moria. When they realize you needed to speak "Friend" in elvish to enter. I was a reminder to both of them of the better times between their peaples.
Boromir made his intentions clear from the start---he wanted to use the ring to save his people. Galadriel didn't "push" him over the edge, she just held up a mirror to what he was thinking. From what I remember, his younger brother Faramir was mentally stronger and wanted to go to the Council of Elrond but Boromir went instead. Big mistake on his part.
Was it though? It’s obvious the hand of the divine has been nudging people and events for a long, long time. Bilbo spares Gollum, Gollum goes to Mordor, Sauron knows the ring is definitely back in play and begins his search for the Shire, the ring and the Hobbits win the race to Rivendale, the fellowship is formed with Baromir in it, Gollum catches up to the fellowship, and eventually Boromir attempts to take the ring and the orcs attack. It almost certainly HAD to be Boromir that was “destined” to be the brother that went to the council. Had the fellowship remained intact, it’s difficult to imagine a way for Frodo to have safely gotten the ring to Mt Doom. With the fellowship broken, and no one even sure where Frodo and the ring are, it frees them to turn their focus to Sauron’s more worldly machinations. Gollum was able to lead Frodo into Mordor. Sauron’s attention was drawn to the distractions of Saruman and Minas Tirith, and he is led to believe that Aragorn now has the ring. Frodo brings the ring right to the edge of the cracks of doom. Gollums final betrayal destroys the ring. A lot actually depended on Boromir giving in to his desire to claim the ring.
@@mattphoenix4702a similar attack with Faramir instead could plausibly have seen him follow the book end from the Mt Doom side, but with other consequences in Gondor.
I think it was less his decision than Denethor's. Faramir saw the vision about the importance of traveling to Elrond several times but Denethor refused to let him go. It was only when the vision was given to Boromir and he expressed an interesting in going that Denethor allowed him to go. As such it was obvious that whoever sent the visions - possibly the Valar? - wanted Faramir to go. What would have happened if he had is unclear, although one bonus is that Boromir wouldn't have been tempted by the ring and would be a strong commander aiding Gondor in resisting Mordor. Also one who Denethor might listen to. The Fellowship would have lacked Boromir's sheer strength and power but how Faramir, with his greater wisdom would have interacted with the council and then the fellowship is difficult to say. I suspect the Fellowship would still have split because of the desire that Aragorn and Farimir would have had to aid Gondor but the drive that might be mission is without Boromir's attempt to take the ring its doubtful that Frodo would have decided that he had to go alone to avoid the ring tempting others in the party and the temporary - at the time scattered this would have been more difficult for him. As I think it points out in the book the capture of Merry and Pippin was vital for a number of key events. It pulled Aragorn and the rest of the company - other than Sam who has realised what Frodo has decided - which might include Faramire westward on their pursuit of the orcs who have captured the two hobbits. Without this they wouldn't have met with Eomer and later Gandalf the White, or then have played a part in breaking wormtongue's hold over Theoden. This enabled the defeat of Sauraman's forces and hence Rohan being able to aid Gondor. Similarly without the hobbits managing to break free and meeting Treebeard the Ents wouldn't have played their own part in 1st breaking Isenguard and then playing an important role in finishing off his army. Similarly without all of this Aragorn wouldn't have gotten hold of the Palantir. By using it he revealed himself to Sauron, distracting him from the real threat of Frodo and Sam's silent approach to Mt Doom and also became aware of the threat from the Corsairs which prompted him to use the paths of the dead. This not only freed up forces from the southern fiefdoms to under his leadership play a vital role again in the defence of Minas Tirth but also along with Denethor's death helped cleared the way for him to be accepted as king. - If Faramir rather than Boromir had gone north and joined the Fellowship then I think the obvious choice would be to have Boromir fall in battle pushing Denethor into his suicide. However Tolkien decided it was better to send Boromir north. Possibly this was partly to show the fallibility of humanity in terms of a bad decision and partly to show that there may be many ways to achieve a desired outcome - i.e. the defeat and final destruction of Sauron. I think that would fit well with Tolkien's philosophical views.
Quite. Whatever Galadriel did, Boromir's fate was sealed the moment he saw the one ring an the Counsel of Elrond. Galadriel only made what might have been hidden or glossed over obvious.
The Hobbit didn't need 3 movies though. Maybe adding another hour or 2 to the extended edition would have made things better for fans, but I doubt it would have appealed to this wide an audience.
@@Hugh.ManateeAlternatively, instead of front-loading the first movie with newly created material from 80 years in the future and a fight/chase scene before reaching Rivendell the first movie was actually pretty well done and close to the text. Not so the next two movies! What could have been done is this first movie could have ended as they entered Mirkwood (perhaps), and it could conclude with a second movie-not three-that stuck to the text and didn’t fold on wildly inappropriate unrelated stories borrowed from other F&SF tales. Like converting sand worms into giant earth worms. Really? Ugh!
Galadriel's gift to Gimli has deeper meaning behind it, like most things in this movie & reflects the expanded lore of the middle earth universe. She is one of the 2-3 most powerful & wise elves remaining in Middle Earth since the time the land was young. She was born in a place called Valinor, or the Undying land... which is basically the place of residence of the Valar, the local pantheon, the local "gods" as you may call them. (Essentially the land that be untouched by Morgoth and where the holy ones still yet reside.) Back then, the world was not illuminated by the sun&moon, (only the stars, but rather by 2 trees of gold and silver, Telperion and Laurëlin that lit the world before the sun & moon were born from their last flower & fruit as they were basically killed by Melkor when he struck them with his Lance and Ungoliant the primordial Eldrich Terror vampirized the life force of the two trees. Ungoliant she was named by the Eldar/Elves). It is said that Galadriel's hair had enmeshed some of the shine and power of those two trees within her tresses. Her uncle Fëanor, who was a great king of the Elven people after his father Finwë was slain by Morgoth(Formally known as Melkor). Fëanor arguably was their greatest craftsman & warrior to ever live (besides the father of his wife Nerdanel who mentored him since he was born), asked if she could give him a lock of hair, so that he could use it to fashion 3 gems that would shine of the same light as the trees. Sensing his pride & a shadow that wasn’t exactly belonging to him brewing from within, she refused his request 3 times. He stopped asking and made the gems anyway, managing to complete the task he had set for himself even without her hair. Around these 3 gems, the possession of which became the driving force for many of the great events in the world, entire wars that lasted for centuries exploded, and other events. The gems actively shaped the fate of the races of middle earth to the point that the aforementioned Valar got involved directly. During these times, events surrounding the gems brought about the traditional enmity between Dwarves and Elves... the same enmity that Gimli still feels towards them. That enmity however does not survive his encounter with the wise Galadriel, whom Gimli basically falls platonically in love with. By giving him 3 of her hair, Galadriel is opening a door, offering an olive branch that might one day close the gap that divides these two races. Legolas, himself being an Elven prince and centuries old, knows of the story through his father Thranduil & grandfather Oropher, as it shaped the lives of all Elves, and his subtle smile is possibly the first act of acknowledgment and reconciliation. it is also a way for Peter Jackson, the director of the film, to give a nod to all of the fans who know these facts and backstories... a way to make us feel seen, and to make us appreciate just how deeply the makers of the film respect the books and larger universe created by Tolkien. The thing with the hair may seem weird, but there is a significance to it in real life as well as in the lore of the story. In real life, it was not uncommon for wives, fiancés, or even girlfriends to give their men (who were going off to war), a lock of their hair as a keepsake, particularly in WWI, which Tolkien fought in. The lore part of it comes into play in The Silmarillion, Tolkien's tales of the creation of Arda, the Undying Lands of Valinor, and Middle Earth. Galadriel is many, many thousands of years old, & was born in Valinor before the sun & moon were even created. At the time, the world was lit by two trees, one gold and one silver which would shine at different times from each other, but would shine together once a day when one would fade and the other brighten. Galadriel's hair was said to look like the light of the mingled light from the two trees, which may have inspired Feanor, a master craftsman and heir to the high king of the Ñoldor, to craft the Silmaril's which were three jewels that captured the light of the two trees, one golden light, one silver light, & one co-mingled light. Fëanor had a bit of a thing for Galadriel and begged her for her hair three different times, which she rejected because she could perceive the inner darkness of his heart and rejected him, which made them "un-friends" after that. There is a lot more to the lore than that, so this is the super crib-notes version. But the point is, it was VERY significant that she granted Gimli three of her hairs to a dwarf, when she would not to the son of her king (great uncle) over 20,000 thousand years ago of which she is related to all three kings who were brothers and Elu Thingol of Doriath was one of the brothers that didn’t stay in Valinor even though he was one of the elven ambassadors along with his three brothers and that king I mentioned was VERY close friends with Thingol.)
@jachyra9 Jesus Christ, what is it with assholes in the comments? Galadriel wasn't judging his actions; she was testing his heart, for her knowledge and for his. He was already being corrupted. She gave him a chance to recognize those problems and fix them. He failed to understand until after he tried to take the Ring from Frodo.
@@SuStel - "Jesus Christ, what is it with assholes in the comments?" I agree. I don't know who let you in here. Maybe there's a support group you can join that will help you deal with your lack maturity and manners and hopefully grow up one day. "He was already being corrupted." Nope. "She gave him a chance to recognize those problems and fix them." Is that what she did?
"And the dwarf hearing the names given in his own ancient tongue looked and met her eyes, and it seemed to him that looked suddenly into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding." One of my favorite lines in the book. I understand why Jackson removed the scouring of the Shire it gives that story a simpler ending and cuts down the run time of an already long movie but it also removes some key character moments for Sam.
It also removes THE KEY character moment for the four Hobbits. They had been trained to be leaders and this was the first instance of them doing so. They became great among their people.
@@dandiehm8414 This film trilogy was a tour de force, but I hated the ending. Peter Jackson could have cut out bits from Aragorn's coronation, and the assembly at the Grey Havens could have been simplified and shortened. It was a very mawkish and sentimental departure scene that could have been done better almost in silence. At dawn, people speak in near whispers, as they do at funerals. So a solemn procession on to the ship with quiet acknowledgments would have been much better. By then, everything had been said. The scouring of the Shire is more important. Boromir's sudden bid for the ring is quite subtly signalled at Lothlorien, but leaving it out makes his later change of character inexplicable. The film wastes time with Galadriel turning witchy when an increase in her relative size and change in perspective would have conveyed the danger more effectively.
Boromir is a classic tragic hero, I think. He is a good man, and noble, but with flaws. First, he believes that military might can prevail, even against Sauron. Second, he believes men to be incorruptible. The ring does seem to play on Boromir's desire for glory, but I think the other aspects of his character are stronger, both the flaws and his devotion to his people. Alas for poor Boromir.
Technically in the film legolas says "a balrog of morgoth" probably the only morgoth name drop in all 6 films.. so when you said "balrog of moria" it killed me a little inside
That technically makes Sam the ring bearer who bore the heaviest burden. “Of course you are (going alone) and I’m going with you!” I saw that the day I turned in my final university thesis, saying goodbye for the last time to many friends I’d made before moving overseas. Sam is the type of friend I strive to be.
@@TheCyzergy He takes the ring when he thought Shelob kill Frodo. He puts it on when he went to rescue Frodo. after finding out that he was paralyzed from the venom. The ring influenced giving him courage to fight the goblins until he reached Frodo. Sam was the only one who gave it willingly to Frodo.
I think it's a moot question whether Boromir would have fallen had he not seen his darkest desire. This plot point is a classic look into the abyss kinda story. The abyss is there whether you look or not. And there are just as many stories of people being overtaken by their own darkness because they didn't see it coming. Seeing your darkness is always better, in my opinion. If one were to explore Boromir's story further, one might say that, by seeing his darkest desire in advance, Boromir was given the necessary tools to see his folly immediately after he'd attempted his betrayal of Frodo. One might even conjecture that this glimpse into his dark desire wasn't the reason for his downfall, which was already coming, but the reason for his redemption, which had been by no means assured prior. After all, though we know he saw himself with the ring, and perhaps even defeating Sauron, we don't know how far that vision went. It isn't too far a leap of the imagination to suppose he saw the cost to his soul, and to his people, of that victory. And he was left weighing that cost against the fall of Gondor, a true devil's bargain. Of course, as these kinds of stories go, the choice between redemption and damnation was ultimately Boromir's, not Galadriel's.
“Hey! There’s that Ted Sandyman cutting down trees as he shouldn’t! Those trees didn’t ought to be felled, they shade the avenue to Bywater. I wish I could get to Ted and I’d fell him!” Don’t mess with Sam’s trees. 😂😂
In the book, we don't get to know much about what Galadriel offers each during her telepathic moment. We get a few hints, some more obscure than others. Sam falters in mid-sentence as he reveals his offer. As if he comes up with an alternative offer. He says: "She seemed to be looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with-with a bit of garden of my own." I've always wanted to see it as Galadriel actually offering him “… a nice little hole with a nice little wife (Rosie)”, but that he's too shy to admit it. Of course, I have no evidence for that. But I like the idea.
I don't think Galadriel put the 8 members to the "test" in order to guide them in either direction. She did it to find out which direction they wanted to go. I don't think it was a "test". It was more like an inquiry, or experiment. Naturally, she was interested in each of their inclinations. I wonder just how far Boromir's ambition would have had to been, for Galadriel to interfere with Boromir's continued presence in the Fellowship. She only mildly chastised him with words. Tolkien ALWAYS made the best choice, including this whole interaction. Jackson did not always make the best choices, even allowing for the absolutely necessary time constraints.
Galadriel also gives a bit of ring lore to Frodo as she explains to him that he must not try to expand his use of the ring to read others’ thoughts because the will to dominate another’s mind would destroy his mind.
@@archmage_of_the_aether There's a bit of analysis somewhere of Frodo saying something to Gollum and using the ring to bind him to a promise, something to the effect of 'if you break your promise and try to steal the precious again it will destroy you' and in the end he does and it does, so the analysis paints Frodo's use of words as an actual geas on Gollum rather than a simple promise 'on the precious'. I wish I could remember where I'd seen it, I would link it here if I could.
Since they removed the Scouring of the Shire from the films, I think removing Sam from this scene is fine. Though they could have shown Sam’s vision of Frodo asleep under a cliff, which foreshadows Frodo being captured by Shelob.
I really disliked the "crazy witch lady" visual of Galadriel. Her speech was powerfull enough by it self: "I will diminish and go West, and remain Galadriel...". Knowing her full storyline it gives you goosebumps.
Respect were your coming from but I disagree. Because that part shows the one ring exerting some influence over her directly. In that moment she was truly becoming tempted. To see how frightening a aspect someone as kinda and wise as her would become begs the questions how much worse would it be in Sauron won and got it back.
“I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?) She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity? Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance. But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed. (But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.) - • “Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible. First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today. Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor. Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths. Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth. Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad” (the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending. Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
I hate how Rings of Power destroyed the mighty Galadriel. They had her clumsily firing bows when she used her power alone to cast off Sauron and the Ringwraith's, even though only in the Hobbit movies.
I greatly enjoy your series. My own opinion of Jackson's work is that he set out with great love in his heart for the original material, and with the determination to do it justice. He was also possessed of the wisdom that, in order for his work to have mass appeal and a certain timeless quality, he was going to have to simplify it for the uninitiated, meanwhile keep it as true as possible to the original material to satisfy the avid fans. This means transferring lines to people who didn't necessarily speak them in the book, just to make sure sentiments were expressed and points made, in a economy of scenes and run-time. All in all, my opinion is that he absolutely nailed it, despite the scouring of "the scouring" from the movie. Even better, the movie convinced my son to read the books, and we now have discussions about it that I enjoy immensely. Keep up the good work.
I agree. In a sense I always viewed the films as a masterwork in balacing the story, action and quality. The films don't disappoint and they motivate people to read the books. Reading the books only enhances the love for the films.
Galadriel’s Gift To Gimli part 2 - ever wondered how old Galadriel is during the War of the Ring? I have looked in many different sources and depending on where you look, she’s anywhere from 17,000-20,000 elf-years old. 6,000 seems too young as it would make her close in age to Elrond, who I know is much younger than her even though he’s 6000-8000 by the third age, which wouldn’t make sense for her at all even if she was (“690 elf-years older” as some kept repeating on the internet making 6960!)As she was around long before Elrond was even born and time was experience differently to say the LEAST as there is a lot to go into on that subject lol.) She was born during the Years of the Trees & back then the years were something like 9X longer than a solar year so I understand the math is hard, especially since she isn’t given an exact birth year. But it is said that Finarfin, her father, was born in Y.T. 1230, so I would assume she was born sometime within 1000 years of then (being generous). Basically, I’m wondering what the most accurate range is for her age during the events of Lord of the Rings. I’ll also add that Galadriel is was around before the ents even existed (of which Treebeard is 15,000 years old so she’s OLDER than Treebeard/Fangorn) or very close to when they were “created” by Yavannah and probably had much knowledge to do with such things and or direct knowledge of what happened. Probably through an early prototype of her mirror or simply another dream that made her long for middle earth all over again ontop of the yearning she already had to go there and explore. Nothing to do with Fëanor’s oath and all that jazz. (So by this current era in HUMAN solar years she’s like. 150,000 to 180,000 years old. Now that makes more sense if she’s going to be older than the sun and moon. Tolkien was always reiterating his manuscripts with the growing scientific discoveries.) though Treebeard/Fangorn in the deeper writings is older than Galadriel as he was one of first brought into life by Yavanna to help protect nature while it was put into enhanced hibernation by Yavanna to protect them from Morgoth’s Ring (the poisoning of the world itself which caused it to bleed its magic away over the ages called The Long Defeat by the elves.) Just going from the Appendices (and maybe Silmarillion) she would have to be at least 9000+ years older than Elrond, Elrond was born near the end of the First Age, Galadriel was adult before the destruction of the Trees. Actually, more than that: I just checked, and the Second Age ended in SA 3441. So an elf born literally at the end of the First Age (FA 590) is 3441+3018 = 6459 years old when Frodo leaves for Rivendell. Elrond was born in FA 532, so adds 58 years to get 6517. Elves are mature at 100, so Galadriel adds at leas 632 to Elrond's age, to be at least 7149, and possibly quite a bit more (as attested by other comments.) One fic had Maglor(Elrond’s Adoptive Father, Maedhros was also adoptive father alongside Maglor, they were the eldest sons of Fëanor) - One fic had as much older than Galadriel; I wondered how we knew, and it was pointed out to me that Maglor was the second oldest son of the first son of Finwë, while Galadriel is the youngest child of the third son of Finwë. So, yeah. Note that the second age was the LONGEST & again time was experienced very differently back then too aside from the internal clock of elves working very differently, she’s definitely older as far as the world and the other beings that age far faster around her. I also remind you all that she’s older than the sun and the moon and witnessed & most likely even helped in the Valar’s crafting what would be the vessels of the last fruit & flower of the two trees of Valinor. She was the most involved with learning everything possible from them and it was stated that she learned all there was to learn from ALL of the Valar that they could teach and she mastered all at a deep level. (Wow hey?) She’s 25th generation from Tata one of the elven forefathers to wake to the stars. Their birth was rather shrouded in mist. Only those of her grandfathers ilk have a chance of knowing the origins a bit better as they are closer to that culture that stemmed from the beginning. The Years of the Trees were the second of the three great time periods in Arda that followed the Years of the Lamps and preceded the Years of the Sun&Moon. They were known to be comprised of several Ages and lasted in total around 1500 Valian Years or 14,373 solar years. Time flowed differently back then and time flowed differently within them too for the elves live as long as the world does. Epic hey?❤❤ The Dúnedain said that Galadriel’s height was two rangar, or "man-high" - some 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm). However, Galadriel's most striking feature was her beautiful long silver-golden hair. The Elves of Tirion said it captured the radiance of the Two Trees Laurelin and Telperion themselves. Galadriel was said to be the tallest female in Middle Earth, at 6'4”. But then Thingol was the tallest elf ever to live, and he's estimated to be almost 9' (274 cm) Thingol was also a very very prominent figure within the Silmarillion and other books. He’s the great ancestor of Elrond+Arwen and through Aragorn being directly but distantly related to Elronds Twin Brother Elros it makes him loosely connected to Thingol as well. Let’s just say he died a tragic death long long ago. In a continent that doesn’t exist anymore. The events I spoke of in my earlier story of Elrond about his fathers deeds, which lead to the Valar helping with putting a Stop to Morgoth for good so to say and that War Of Wrath lasted 80 years straight and it left the landmass torn asunder from the clash of gods and the holy host of Vanyar elves that were closest to the Valar than all other elves so you can imagine what a bunch of mighty elves men and Maiar fighting a bunch of fowl creatures and beings for 80 years would do to a continent. It all fell into the sea. Galadriel barely made it over the mountain before that part of the story officially broke out.
Did Galadrial break Boromir? Yes, but Boromir breaking probably needed to happen sooner rather than later. The books give you the sense that everything happens in the only way it can happen for Frodo to succeed (Aru stepping in?). If Boromir hadn't broken when he did, worse things would've happened, perhaps it happens in a worse place or time or Boromir succeeds in getting the ring etc.
The amazing thing that is the Legolas and Gimli friendship (something not seen for thousands of years) is why I absolutely HATE the love shit in the Hobbit movies that just DETROY the friendships special meaning.
It ruins the fact that Gimli is the only dwarf allowed to journey to Valinor and travels with Legolas. it was a story that really hit ... and when looking at other fantasies with dwarves... like Felix and Gotrek,(Gotrek never respected Felix in the same manor and still held his prejudices). there is never that bond like Gimli and Legolas.. it was and is a rare thing and the hobbit movies just kind of made a mockery of it
I didn't even deign to consider any far-reaching consequences of that crapfest, it didn't deserve the effort. The "romance" felt like something from a PC game dialogue choice - first pick sexual innuendo, then switch to romantic talk about the moon, tadah! achievement star-crossed lovers unlocked, special power: healng aid obtained. But yeah, "it was real", sure.
@@irena4545 indeed. But most forget a huge amount of The Hobbit was created by Deltoro, the one that made all the weird shite. Peter & the original team came in to rescue everything from a burning nosedive after he ran away midway during production… Jackson wanted to scrap it all and take more time to start over from scratch. He was rushed.
With regard to the timeline, Sam determines later the Company of the Ring was in Lothlorien for about a month, but to the members of the Company it seemed only a few days.
If they’re in a hurry I don’t understand why they’d stay there for a whole month?! Unless Loth Lorien has some kind of magic affecting the sense of time ? I prefer Jackson’s changes of a day or couple days
@@ilovenycsomuch This is a bit complicated. Gibby’s statement about the Fellowship staying in Lothlorien for a whole month is inaccurate. The statement is true with regard to the calendar in the world around Lothlorien, but Time flows slower in Lothlorien itself because of the power of Galadriel’s ring. We learn that she’s the keeper of one of the “Three Rings for the Elven kings under the stars.” So from the Fellowship’s perspective, they were there for only a few days. It’s later, after they leave Lothlorien, that Sam realizes by the phases of the moon that their sojourn was longer. Jackson apparently chose (probably rightly) not to spend time and dialog on all this nuance. But with regard to the timeline of the narrative, the book and movie are essentially in step.
@@EjonAlmirson that would actually be really scary & upsetting to discover (it reminds me of time flying by in the movie Click) especially when you’re on a time-pressing mission. Are the elves in Lorien aware of this & just not care or have become so used to it, or is it something they rarely realize ?
@@ilovenycsomuch It’s my guess these elves care but are accustomed to it. The elves in this world are immortal, so what we experience as years would be almost like hours to them. Things like the beautiful trees of Lothlorien, from an elvish perspective, would whither and die rather quickly while the elves lived on. With the power of Galadriel’s Ring, she can slow down the ravages of Time, and the elves can enjoy the other living things around them longer. When Sam later realized the passage of time, I think he was amazed, but not alarmed because he had a particular reverence for the elves.
@@EjonAlmirson that’s true, time is already of little to them since they live forever, but that’s cool that her ring slows down time for the life around them to delay the trees’ death, thanks for the info!
Yes I agree with Jackson's rendering of the story since as it's been said before, the story had to be adapted for the theatres and the time in which it was released and also for the time allowed for the movie to be filmed. The changes makes more sense than what was originally there since it had to harmonize the fellowship with the little time it had to air in the movie. Those criticizing the changes have no clue as to what it takes to make a work of art as the trilogy turned out to be and therefore should value the results over any preferences they may have had. Peter Jackson not only did the best work possible with what he had to work with, he also gifted the world with a story that will live on through the ages. Lord of the Rings, that is all.
Peter Jackson wanted people to see the extended (uncut) versions in the theatres, but Harvey Weinstein stopped him. In fact, Harvey wanted just ONE movie in the threatres, not a trilogy. 5 years of court proceedings - and the 'harvey weinstein orc" in return of the king (made at Jackson's specific direction) was the result. Too many people don’t realize they are arguing in favour of a version of this movies that was only shown in theatres because of legal reasons - not for artistic reasons. - Peter Jackson’s passion project team was forced to not show their full content as it would cut into what the cinema CEOs literally called the theatrical edition to get more screen time in and more mulla for themselves. It’s a such a nasty business. 80 percent true that money be the root of all evil. It’s the reason the real pumped out the EE as fast as possible in DVD format before the second and third film hit theatres to get back at Harvey Weinstein, again, they wanted people to see the whole movie which invites feelings of completion in one’s heart. But he just announced that’s he found 1300 hours worth of footage from a warehouse he finally got access to so we will see more specially made super extended edition cinema extravaganzas that no cinema would pass on the opportunity to ride on his coattails again. The EE wasn’t just for fans. He literally was adapting the books to film as honestly as possible. the DVD documentaries showed that they didn’t want to cut anything. And weaselled around things to create the EE. (EE is extended edition by the way! ❤️). Without the extended for the next two films I always say “Good luck missing the Boromir backstory. Good luck explaining why the cloak turns into a rock. Good luck explaining the elves that had explained their current situation since the first film. It all ties together good luck skipping the gift scene with Galadriel and Celeborn and the extra scenes between Aragorn and Celeborn & Galadriel to Aragorn!” It’s seriously needed for the film worldbuilding and heightening the stakes. Also, I’d rather have faith people have the emotional and intellectual IQ high enoug to understand it or shall we have changed the title to something else same as how JK was forced to change the title in America to sorcerers stone instead of PHILOSPHER as Americans don’t even know what a Philospher is anymore these days which is sad (done on purpose to dumb down a population). Relating to that: Tolkien was very sad about people losing connection to their past and heritage etc!
It makes me wonder if at this point in history, we are living the Scouring of the Shire globally and if the seeds of wisdom are to be found in Samwise and the restoration of the Shire.
I never really cared for the nuclear Galadriel in this scene, but enjoyed Lothlórien overall. I also always have a 3yo giggle when Sam substitutes "silver showers" for the original "golden showers". 😂
In the book it feels to the fellowship that they have been in Lothlorien a couple of days, maybe a week. But when they leave they realise a month has passed outside. That discrepancy is a classic folk story trope of visits to fairy lands.
“I shall NOT be dark, all EVIL will despair” part 2 - All creatures whose flesh are nourished by the matter of Arda have a tendency towards Melkor AKA Morgoth, for greater or lesser. Since Melkor poured his evil power into the very existence and essence of the world(Morgoth’s Ring” book explains a lot including how and when he put a portion of his remaining power into the earth itself. Sure, Galadriel was born in the Undying Lands where there was supposed to be no evil (souls of the Elves are greatly less subject to making faulty decisions), but Galadriel & the rest of her father's kin were directly targeted by the Evil Lord himself. Melkor corrupted a decent portion of the Noldor, basically telling them things along the lines of “My Valarin kin are cooping you all up in Valinor.”, which wasn’t their ancestral homeland to begin with, like Middle Earth was, Some were affected little, most were affected to greater degrees, and Galadriel was the least affected woman by the lies of Melkor, which were “sweet but poisoned honey" as she’d call his words. Her natural pious tendency towards goodness & kindness as shown by her ability to read the hearts of everyone and all living beings around her which aids her to provide what anyone truly needs. Due to the magic bleeding from the world as the ages went on; thanks to Morgoth’s Ring poisoning the earth long ago; lead to a what if scenario in her mind as she’d be the only living creature left with the skills & power to even use the ring. She didn’t need her ring at all to block him out of her realm telepathically as well as read his mind from afar without him knowing. But there is a difference between good people who are a bit morally challenged and the evil people. The evil folk act upon their impulses and unlawful desires, while the good folk overcome such flaws within themselves (and for some not always they can masterfully do this). Galadriel WOULD NEVER listen to Melkor and tread the path of toxic pride and ambition. Galadriel has a Fëa spirit that’s only grown larger as the ages passed on and on. Enough to channel into an effect that threw down fortress walls, without tiring her at all. And with that much Fëa, she is capable of holding her own against Maiar for a good long while, much like her brother Finrod did against Sauron, or her uncle Fëanor did against Balrogs. Fëanor effectively lost all claim to the crown when he rebelled and dragged his entire house to Middle Earth. Where he promptly died a heroic death after slaying several Balrogs at the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; The Elves first encountered Lord Of Balrogs named Gothmog in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; (meaning “the battle fought under stars”) before the first rising of the Moon. In that battle, Fëanor's fury had caused him to draw forward of the main force of the Noldor, and so he came upon Gothmog with only a small guard left around him that rushed so deep into enemy territory. Fëanor slayed 2 or 3 balrogs at once & Gothmog slayed him after one bound him suddenly with its primordial flame whip when he was supposed to have an uninterrupted “one on one” duel with Gothmog but one wasn’t wanting to play fair. But he was fatally wounded and so his sons and host moved him away to a safe place where his body burned up from the fires of his own spirit. Even with a lesser ring like Nenya, Galadriel had enough of a boost in her Fëa(spirit) , that she could sustain an unassailable magical realm against Maiar and virtually anything on Middle-Earth. Only problem was when Sauron wore the one ring, she had to take off Nenya, and had to lose that Maia level Fëa spirit from the modernly termed “boosted power up” With the one ring, Galadriel would have such a boost in her Fëa spirit, that she’d literally become stronger than the foundations of the Earth. She never once is called queen or desires to be called such a thing, she and her husband Celeborn became the wiseman and wisewoman of that realm; after the previous elven lord Amroth died, (how he died is shown in a wonderful song by Tolkien that was brought to life by Brociliande) and his wife Nimrodel disappeared ontop of the fact Amroth’s Successor later died as well in the “Last Alliance” where Amdir died, (same battle shown in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring), All Evil Despairs at her presence let alone hearing her name on the wind. (They even founded Eregion together. she gracefully left after Annatar>Sauron sowed seeds of rebellion against anyone that had any level of lineage connected to the Noldor.) The Nazgûl themselves avoid her realm every chance they get to the point of choosing to go the long way around for over 100 miles just to avoid her. (So she’s definitely scary to foul entities that have turned away from Eru Îlluvatar the one AllFather.) She’s a totally good character. Aragorn even says to the Fellowship as they enter Lothlórien, “There is in her and this land no evil, unless a man bring it hither himself. Then let him beware!” If you’re going by her portrayal in the movies, you might think she has an evil element to her character, but that came from Peter Jackson’s portrayal of the addictive, coercive power of the Ring. When Frodo offered her the Ring, it presented her with visions of herself as the all-powerful Goddess of Middle-Earth. Luckily, she was smart & intuitive enough to realize that the Ring was totally evil, and despite the best of intentions, it would have turned her evil in the end-but she still would have appeared to be beautiful and good. I don’t agree with Jackson’s “drowned Galadriel” portrayal of her being tempted by the Ring-I think she’d have appeared as a supernatural being of divine beauty, and her regular appearance was close to that already, but how do you show that in a movie? Apparently, in her youth in Valinor, she was somewhat of a rebel, but that’s not necessarily evil. She certainly could have fallen into the same trap as her uncle Fëanor did, of thinking that everyone was entitled to her opinion-but she kept her ego in check. (If you’re not sure what I’m referring to there; please read The Silmarillion and “Unfinished Tales”.) No matter how noble her reason was to use the ring as a last resort, especially if said fellowship fell off the “edge of the knife” as she called it. she had a change of heart which happened in the middle of talking to Frodo. Galadriel left Valinor(The Undying Lands) for a reason - and it was different from most of the other elves. She wasn’t with her uncle Fëanor, who wished to make war against Morgoth and retrieve the Silmarils - she was not wishing to go to war, and had no interest in the Silmarils in which Melkor stole from Fëanor which was the surviving light of the two trees of Valinor within them that the only Fëanor; the master of all elven smiths could have accomplished but it could not be done a second time as is any pure creation of one’s heart, especially in regards to the elves and Valar alike. Though she traveled with her other uncle, Fingolfin, her goals were not aligned completely with his either despite her full support of her noble and regal uncle Fingolfin in general. - They both wished to keep an eye on Fëanor and make sure the Noldor were in good hands - Galadriel wasn’t interested in Fëanor and wanted her own realm. After spending some time in Doriath, Galadriel and her husband Celeborn passed to the east out of Beleriand and passed eastward through Eriador and over the Misty Mountains; to where she founded her own realm in what became renamed as Lothlórien. Her motivation and goal was to preserve her realm, possibly at any means necessary. With Sauron’s return in the Third Age, Galadriel was forced to ask herself how far she would go to preserve her realm. If Frodo failed, she must forsake her own ring & her realm. If he succeeds, her ring will lose power and her realm will fade. Would she seize the ring, taking Sauron’s power for her own, to save her realm? She decided she would not. She had decided to “test” the Fellowship, to find some flaw that would allow her to justify seizing the ring, and she did find a flaw - in herself. She stated to Frodo, that by telling her that he would offer her the ring if she asked, that she had come to test his heart, but found that he was testing hers. She had a change of heart, she would pass into the West, and remain Galadriel. Which one is better? Being born completely good and living your whole life without any evil inside, or having a character growth ?
I always think that leaving the movies the way the books were is important. But sometimes considering time restraints, it is not logical to tell the story the same way. So long as fundamentals aren't involved, I think retelling is ok and still honours the book. Because if the movies ended up sucking due to storytelling, it wouldn't do the books justice. Instead what you have is a wonderful book, and separately wonderful movies, just told differently.
I guess, by that moment he believed that the Ring was the only hope for Minas Tirith, and without its help, his city would eventually fall. This was a really heavy burden, and it wasn't surprising that the Ring found its way to undermine his will and, at the right time, made him try to take the Ring by force. I don't think that Galadriel's temptation added anything significant to that burden, as it had already been sufficient to create a crack that the Ring could use.
Pretty sure that the meeting happened in a building on a platform in the tree rather than carved into the tree itself. Other than pedantic detail, you were spot on with your analysis. :)
I have always felt (for no good reason) that Galadriel only brought it to the front of Boromir's mind that the ring was the answer. In the book the ring has almost 7 weeks to work on Boromir, to ignite the burning desire to have the ring.
Does Galadriel show Boromir what will happen if he were to take the Ring, or does she show him his hearts desire, which happens to be taking the Ring and saving Gondor? He knows firsthand that Gondor is losing the war of attrition against the growing forces of Mordor and he ventured far to Rivendell searching for hope. As the Fellowship ventures south, he sees the folly of their plan to deliver the Ring to Mount Doom and imagines its “better” uses. While he does not desire the power of the Ring to rule over all, he does want the power to save his homeland. It’s impossible to ascertain how things would have progressed if Boromir had not seen this vision, but I don’t think it showed Boromir anything he hadn’t already contemplated.
That’s thought provoking! I think we should remember that Galadriel (like Gandalf) is fundamentally wise and good. But being “good“ is not the same as being perfect. I am sure that in her dealings with Boromir she saw his peril and sought to help him. But wanting to be helpful does not mean that what we do is actually helpful. We should also remember that Boromir is fundamentally a good man. But he was suspicious of Galadriel and therefore she may not have been able to help him. A short time after the meeting with Galadriel he did two “stupid things” - firstly, he tried to take the ring from Frodo, and secondly he tried to take on a party of 100 Orcs. It has been said that his motivation for trying to take the ring was love for his country combined with pride. Perhaps his attempt to deal with 100 Orcs was also motivated by love for Merry and Pippin and pride (perhaps he really thought he could win?). But perhaps both were motivated, simply by love for the other; perhaps that is why both actions played a huge part in the salvation of middle earth. People always have mixed motives, and no one is perfect! I believe that Galadriel did her best to help Boromir and Frodo. And ultimately, the actions of both were redemptive.
I also think Boromir wanted to take the Ring, but there was no later. He failed to convince the Fellowship that the Ring should go to Minas Tirith. His attempt to take the Ring was a last ditch effort.
I don't think there is room for that "later." AFAIR, both Boromir and Aragorn were meant to leave the Fellowship and head to Gondor around that time - if the Fellowship chose not to go to Minas Tirith, that is.
If Galadriel hadn't shown Boromir his vision the Ring would have done so. She may have been the one who really set his mind upon it's traitorous course, but if she hadn't the Ring would've gotten him anyway. And it was fortunate that the fellowship broke when it did, for the Ring would've taken everyone but Sam and Frodo long before they reached Orodruin.
@@theholyinquisition389 this is why in the books Legolas permanently kept himself at a far distance from Frodo and Sam. He and Aragorn would easily resist. Same with Gimli as his blood ancestor is Dúrin the deathless after all. First of 7 to be created from the earth itself by Aulë, one of the main Valar. ❤️
Part 1 - “I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?) She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity? Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance. But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed. (But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.) - • “Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible. First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today. Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor. Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths. Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth. Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad” (the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending. Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
“I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?) She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity? Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance. But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed. (But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.) - • “Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible. First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today. Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor. Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths. Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth. Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad” (the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending. Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
Y’all love the full scene with Frodo+Sam &Galadriel the great Peter Jackson & team didn’t seem to include.. which all this little stuff lead to that scene in the movies which gave it more meaning; & the”one who has seen the eye” thing was a mistake by the team. It gave the wrong message and was not needed as it lead some reactors to be like “so creepy lol” which diminishes how much farther that well done scene could have gone especially in the extended to do it properly as in the books that lays it out perfectly.: •[Frodo] stepped back shaking all over & looked at the Lady. “I know what it was that you last saw”, she said; 'for that is also in my mind. Do not be afraid! But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!' She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Evenstar had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood. 'Yes,' she said, divining his thought, 'it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper. 'He suspects, but he does not know - not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.' Frodo bent his head. 'And what do you wish?' he said at last. 'That what should be shall be,' she answered. 'The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged. Yet they will cast all away rather than submit to Sauron: for they know him now. For the fate of Lothlórien you are not answerable but only for the doing of your own task. Yet I could wish, were it of any avail, that the One Ring had never been wrought, or had remained for ever lost.' 'You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel,' said Frodo. 'I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it. It is too great a matter for me.' Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. 'Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,' she said, 'yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest? 'And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!' She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad. 'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.' They stood for a long while in silence. At length the Lady spoke again. 'Let us return!' she said. 'In the morning you must depart for now we have chosen, and the tides of fate are flowing.' 'I would ask one thing before we go,' said Frodo, 'a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them?' 'You have not tried,' she said. 'Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight has grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring?' she asked turning again to Sam. 'No, Lady,' he answered. 'To tell you the truth, I wondered what you were talking about. I saw a star through your finger. But if you'll pardon my speaking out, I think my master was right. I wish you'd take his Ring. You'd put things to rights. You'd stop them digging up the gaffer and turning him adrift. You'd make some folk pay for their dirty work.' 'I would,' she said. 'That is how it would begin. But it would not stop with that, alas! We will not speak more of it. Let us go!' When at last all that [Galadriel] had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the peaceful rule of Middle-earth which she had dreamed... her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it.... Meaning definitely by now it’s become trivial to her. Even back in the day he couldn’t find her or pierce her mind and whenever he went looking for her presence he boils t find her ALL AT THE SAME TIME AS HER BEING ABLE TO READ HIS OWN MIND WITHOUT HIM KNOWING! Often times even from a great distance. That’s power. Just one calm look from her is all it takes to send even the Nazgûl run away from her. They even avoid her realm entirely, opting to travel hundreds of miles around her realm; both because of its own power as well as they know exactly who she is and her exact lineage through themselves being very old. 4000+years old. Especially the WitchKing(head Nazgûl). Remember Númenorean men are not like other average men. They were known to be rather superhuman & very tall. Between 6-8 feet.
I always felt for Boromir since reading the books as a child. One of the best in the world in battle, able to slay enemies by the dozen but knows he cannot defeat Sauron and his hordes alone. Tries a different method, becomes corrupted and in the end goes back to what he does best. Dies going forward in a futile effort to save those weaker than himself. Very working man ending.
Boromir was probably my favorite character from the movies. I find him so interesting because his faults sorta boil down to that he was a realist, there's nothing inherently wrong with his way of thinking, other than that he was a realist in a fantasy novel. A powerful weapon existed that could defeat Sauron, he felt it was better that they had it than to walk it right to Sauron's doorstep (quite a smart decision in my mind). I know in Tolkien's world it's not meant to be questioned whether or not the ring can really corrupt a person or not, it's nailed home pretty hard that it corrupts everyone it comes near, but in our world it's totally legit to question some item that people claim are "cursed", and so as a viewer nothing Boromir does or says really comes across as unreasonable. Ok, well he does turn on Frodo and try to kill him, and well okay I can't defend that, but I mean he was the tragic hero, he was meant to fail and to fall, but other than that...
That's cruel as hell. Showing him a vision where his personal plan succeeds is kinda like showing someone a future in which alcohol solves all their problems. You give someone a vision like that, no matter what their own plans were and they'll think that the gods are saying they should go through with their plans.
1. The exact contents of Galadriel's "temptation" of Boromir are not revealed in the book. We are told that everyone in the Fellowship is given the choice between going on with the mission or receiving what they would most desire. Boromir refuses to say what he was offered, only that he refused (of course). I think we can surmise from all of the descriptions in the text that Boromir is less interested in the salvation of Gondor than his own role as its savior. Perhaps that is what he had to choose between: his own glory and the fulfillment of the quest. The movie made Boromir more noble and likeable than Tolkien's presentation. 2. Galadriel does NOT say that Sam can't turn back. She says he cannot turn back without abandoning Frodo. Presumably he could have returned to the Shire at this point -- a tough journey, but he's about to make a tougher one. It's a decisive moment for the character that is completely left out of the movie.
Giladriel was trying to give him wise advice, trying to make him aware of the path he was treading. Boromirs failings were his own, exacerbated by the power of the ring. One by one, it would've happened to each of the fellowship. Even Gimli.
My interpretation of what may have been intended by Galadriel turning into her “witch lady” form was to represent what the elves were first like when they came over from Valinor. Keep in mind, the Noldor are not supposed to be in middle earth and when they first came over they were strong enough individually to slay balrogs - or at least the greatest of the Noldor were, which Galadriel was one of. I see this scene, a scene representing Galadriel being tempted by the ring’s power, was to show a glimpse back in time to the power and yet the folly of the original Noldor who crossed the sea. This is Galadriel being tempted with her greatest desire, but overcoming it. Metaphorically representing the spiritual and ethical maturity she and the Noldor broadly have developed. They will diminish and return to be humbled before the Valar and ask forgiveness.
The only reason Saruman attempted the scouring of the Shire is because he didn't know Sam. If he did, he would stay the hell away. Nobody wants that smoke, LOL
I know Tolkien (as also is friend Lewis did) hated the "what if . . " thoughts, but I believe Boromir would say exactly what his father Denethor says many pages ahead, it is that he don't want the ring to use it "but in the extreme situation" and that possibility is what finally corrupts them.
Denethor = done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & even now was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher Faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he was reminded of his wife over & over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
i feel like the movie made borimir look weak compared to everyone else, while the book added him to explain how strong the ring was toward everyone else and why frodo resisting it was so important.
Charitably, Galadriel hastened the fellowship to positions they would have arrived at on their own, with enough time. But when comparing the visions of Sam and Boromir it does seem a bit harsh. Comparable tests would have either both using the ring to save their lands, or neither. But, you could argue that Boromir was already thinking of using the ring, and Sam just wanted well rid of the whole thing. Galadriel just made it happen sooner, so there would be more time to recover from betrayal or abandonment.
well, she wanted Aragorn on the throne of Gondor and her own granddaughter Arwen as his queen, as such Galadriel for sure had the motive to get rid of Boromir...
@@Chociewitka Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien! Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces. Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: ‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices. To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever). Plus there is the scene in Lorien, where Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar, which went from Galadriel to Celebrian to Arwen and then back to Galadriel in order that she give it as a gift to Aragorn. Again it speaks to me as a collaborative act, and part of Galadriel helping bring the two together: And Aragorn answered: “Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it.” “Yet maybe this will lighten your heart,' said Galadriel; for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.” Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring. “This stone I gave to Celebrían my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!” From LOTR FOTR BOOK Remember this as well: Their children will now have the blood of all top tier elven clans bloodlines as well as have the blood of a Maia spirit. All of this reinvigorates mankind with the ability to have a higher sway towards goodly godly ness and to better harmonize with the world around them. The elves were meant to stay in middle earth and mentor mankind into becoming the next stewards of the world until it’s remaking together with the Ainur. ❤️
@@Chociewitka Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien! Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces. Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: ‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices. To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever). Plus there is the scene in Lorien, where Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar, which went from Galadriel to Celebrian to Arwen and then back to Galadriel in order that she give it as a gift to Aragorn. Again it speaks to me as a collaborative act, and part of Galadriel helping bring the two together: And Aragorn answered: “Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it.” “Yet maybe this will lighten your heart,' said Galadriel; for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.” Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring. “This stone I gave to Celebrían my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!” From LOTR FOTR BOOK
@@Chociewitka Remember this as well: Their children will now have the blood of all top tier elven clans’ bloodlines as well as have the blood of a Maia spirit. All of this reinvigorates mankind with the ability to have a higher sway towards goodly godlyness and to better harmonize with the world around them. The elves were meant to stay in middle earth and mentor mankind into becoming the next stewards of the world until it’s remaking together with the Ainur. ❤️
@@Chociewitka part 1 - Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien! Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces. Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: ‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices. To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever).
Boromir was broken by his father as his father began using a palentir and slowly came under the enthrall of Saron. Through this he fell under an evil depression and this effected his sons. Boromir was the favored son and Faramir lessor. But where Boromir bore the weight of being favored by a slowly corrupted father whom he could not help. Faramir bore the weight of never being good enough for his father. Ironically both Denathor and Faramir loved Boromir most of all. Perhaps Boromir, too felt he could not live up to their feelings for him. This is a tragic story indeed.
Denethor = done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & even now was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher Faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he was reminded of his wife over & over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
Sir, before anything else, please let me complement your work on this video; this may be your best yet. As far as removing Sam's vision from the movie, IMO it would have been redundant; I'm certain that even the new fans - the ones who went to the cinema having no knowledge of the characters or story - understood EXACTLY who Sam was by the time this scene rolled. Your theory of Galadriel accidentally harming Boromir is really fascinating, especially since Movie-Boromir had already possessed the Ring - if only very, very briefly - and had given it back to Frodo of his own free will. While I would not equate this with what Bilbo, Frodo and Sam were able to accomplish, it showed that Boromir COULD resist the Ring under the correct circumstances. If true, it adds yet another layer of tragedy to Boromir's story; he may never have quite achieved Turin- or Maeglin-levels of "...doomed from the start..." but it's still poignant IMO. The rest of the changes... meh. FotR was already a long movie for its day and IMO some time-compression was necessary. I'm annoyed that the Gandalf / Durin's Bane magic duel was replaced by the never-ending stairway collapse, and I'm VERY annoyed that Gimli very eloquently asking for a lock of Galadriel's hair (and only because she demanded he do so) was deleted, but, on the other hand, it's fine that Celeborn's most inhospitable moments were deleted.
*BOOK/Elrond:* 'This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.' *MOVIE/Galadriel:* 'Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.' Just one of many examples of Team Jackson's love for not only stealing dialogue but for taking beautiful, eloquent sentiment and turning it into banal, greeting card mush. The Hallmark Channel must love these movies.
@@keithtorgersen9664 - It's okay. Didn't you know that you could totally take out the Witch King with a gender reveal and an assist by Charlie from LOST and his trusty not-enchanted blade of Westernesse?
The light reflecting from Gladriel's eyes looks different from the rest. The light from one of the Two Trees is reflected there. At least, that's what it looks like to me.
About removing scenes. PJ would have had many more opportunities for character development etc. if he had cut the action sequences to match the books. I know, I know, he had to do it because he did do it. The books won international acclaim and near universal love by the way it was written. PJ would have done well to keep the personalities that Tolkien wrote and used much more character development
I think Peter Jackson and the screenwriters have done a really good job here. It would be strange to follow Boromir and Galadriel's telepathic dialogue. Instead, they have given Boromir a different arc of charactor throughout the film. Other times (e.g. the ring in the snow on the mountain), Boromir is tempted to go over the edge and become corrupted in a convincing way, and yet/thus they are indirrectly true to the book. I also think the change at the mirror of Galadriel is relevant and better for a movie. More focus is on Frodo and his interaction with Galadriel. That's important because Frodo has had a rather vage personality compared to the book so far. That the film uses the Scouring of the Shire in Frodo's view as a reminder of his responsibility, I think is a neat solution. And like Boromir, the film has instead given Sam alternative events that help strengthen his determination and maturity, for example Gandalf's words "Don't you leave him, Sam" which are significantly stronger in the film than in the book, Sam's bigger conflicts with Frodo and Gollum, etc. Screenplays have to deviate from the originals sometimes. Now and then it gets bad in several movies. Here I think Jackson has done really well to streamline and improve the film. Finally: I follow your entire series of analyses. I have made many points and comments, and it may appear that I am critical. On the contrary! I admire your dedication and find this book/movie analysis series to be by far the best and most rewarding I've seen. Many thanks! I am impatiently looking forward to the comming parts
"It would be strange to follow Boromir and Galadriel's telepathic dialogue." Yet we were forced to follow Galadriel's and Elrond's telepathic dialogue. "More focus is on Frodo and his interaction with Galadriel." "the film uses the Scouring of the Shire in Frodo's view..." Tolkien included Sam here because he is and has always been instrumental to understanding Frodo's character. If the focus is just on Frodo, we don't understand Sam's importance. Which probably doesn't matter since there is no such scouring of the Shire in the films. "Gandalf's words "Don't you leave him, Sam" which are significantly stronger in the film than in the book" This isn't stronger. It's just different. Which, like a lot of occasions in the films, makes the change unnecessary and impotent dramatically. "Sam's bigger conflicts with Frodo and Gollum, etc." Such as Frodo inexplicably and uncharacteristically believing Gollum, not trusting Sam and sending him home? We all this this is stupid and nonsensical.
@@jachyra9 I think you're confusing "not faithful to canon" with constructive filmmaking. You are of course free to think what you want. And we may think differently. I also don't like how the movies treat Frodo and Sam's relationship in the third movie. But now I am only analyzing how a film script can tell a partially different story to achieve the same specific goal. I hate Frodo's rejection of Sam, but at the same time I realize that it is a way of telling how Sam matures, becomes stronger and remains faithful. What Tolkien thought (Sam at the mirror, among other things) is therefore subordinate to my analysis right now. I analyze how the film production makes constructive choices to bring about a desirable result in its film narrative. And right here I think it's beneficial to leave Sam out, the same way it's beneficial to leave Bilbo out of Elrond's council for several reasons, even though it goes against what Tolkien wrote.
@@raimat66 - "I think you're confusing "not faithful to canon" with constructive filmmaking." I'm not. I don't see anything constructive about the filmmaking. And never place quotation marks around words or phrases when you're not directly quoting someone. "You are of course free to think what you want." Thanks. "And we may think differently." Probably. "But now I am only analyzing how a film script can tell a partially different story to achieve the same specific goal." Except that the changes made don't result in the same specific goal. "I hate Frodo's rejection of Sam, but at the same time I realize that it is a way of telling how Sam matures, becomes stronger and remains faithful." This makes no sense. Because it doesn't do that at all. Sam doesn't change in the films from start to finish. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Sam was mature, strong and faithful from the beginning. There was no need to test his character with some fabricated nonsense. "What Tolkien thought (Sam at the mirror, among other things) is therefore subordinate to my analysis right now." A justification. "I analyze how the film production makes constructive choices to bring about a desirable result in its film narrative." But they don't. "And right here I think it's beneficial to leave Sam out, the same way it's beneficial to leave Bilbo out of Elrond's council for several reasons, even though it goes against what Tolkien wrote." Considering that there were individuals present in the film's council who had no identity and no speaking parts, why on earth would it have been beneficial to exclude Bilbo?
@@jachyra9 My quotation marks enclose a concept I wanted to emphasize, not a quote. That's how you can do it in Swedish. If it works differently in English, it's understandable if you react. A bit picky, maybe. Well, well... Now comes a quote: "Except that the changes made don't result in the same specific goal." It is written as a statement, but by all accounts it is an opinion.. I like to discuss opinions, but find it difficult when opinions are "dressed" in the guise of assertions. You keep talking about how it is, but by all accounts it's your opinions that you're expressing. It becomes too difficult to interpret partly if it is an opinion, partly to contradict it. Or rather: I'd rather stop at "we seem to think differently" than enter into a, as I perceive it, pointless dialogue about how different we think. We have already established that. I don't just mean Bilbo's physical presence, but his interaction. And I think there is a point in moving his first glimpse of the ring to the scene where he gives the sword and mail shirt to Frodo. And therefore, in my opinion, there is a point in him not attending the council, and that he has not seen the ring before that.
@@raimat66 - "My quotation marks enclose a concept I wanted to emphasize, not a quote. That's how you can do it in Swedish. If it works differently in English, it's understandable if you react. A bit picky, maybe. Well, well..." The language doesn't matter. It's always wrong. If you want to emphasize a word, you use italics. Like this: _italics_ "It is written as a statement, but by all accounts it is an opinion.." No. It's written as a statement because it is a statement, not an opinion. "I like to discuss opinions, but find it difficult when opinions are "dressed" in the guise of assertions." Doing it again. "You keep talking about how it is, but by all accounts it's your opinions that you're expressing." No. I'm comparing and contrasting what's on the screen with what's on the page. That's not a matter of opinion. "I don't just mean Bilbo's physical presence, but his interaction. And I think there is a point in moving his first glimpse of the ring to the scene where he gives the sword and mail shirt to Frodo." Yes. The point is to indulge in a cheap jump scare. Just one of Jackson's many shlock horror movie ticks. "And therefore, in my opinion, there is a point in him not attending the council, and that he has not seen the ring before that." Confirmation bias.
its not Galadriel that breaks Boromir, its Aragorn. Movie- "your people" -aragorn in Rivendell. "I will not let the white city fall, nor Our people fail".-Aragorn as Boromir dies "Our people" "our people"-boromirs last words. The sword scenes and their changes in the extended versions are key to making it very clear. book version is not as clear. Boromir is expressly thinking of his people and says so. Aragorn does also commit to protecting Minas Tirith, but does not expressly admit they are his people here. "They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his eyes closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again. 'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.' 'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!' Boromir smiled. 'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn. But Boromir did not speak again." Boromirs problem was ALWAYS Aragorn denying his humanity, and the crown.
I see Boromir as a noble but flawed and at the end broken man. He is never evil but rather breaking to inner weakness. I do think it entirely possible that the full break comes from the testing from Galadriel but don’t see that in anyway making her the cause of or responsible for his failure. Even if she is the trigger or catalyst, I think he breaks from within. I could even see her doing so for strategic reasons since he failed to take the ring. By trying to do so when he did he set other things in motion that might have gone far worse if he had been free to try to take the ring later than he did. Her influence may even have been intended to make him more self aware and less self assured, throwing him off balance and increasing his chance of failing to get the ring. Again I think the movie makes him seem like a villain when he is more a noble warrior who becomes a tragic character in his fall. This also gives weight and sense to Aragon’s interactions with him before his death. And it’s another area that Galadriel’s keen regal nature tends to be underrated.
I have never liked Galadriel. She's straight up creepy. And I think she made him face how weak to temptation he is,, which is a hard pill to swallow. No one likes to have to come face to face with their flaws.
No.....the ring was going to work on all of them...even Sam.....in time....His beloved Gondor being in trouble was his breaking point. He wanted to use the ring long before he may the lady
Maybe that's your opinion. And it can be influenced by the film's narrative. They say so in the movie. In the book it is never pointed out and nothing shows that it is about to happen either. Bilbo had the ring during his adventure without it affecting any of the dwarves, even though they traveled together much longer than Frodo and Boromir.
with all the changes from the original book...why did lotr fans love the movies and didn't freak out and rage over the changes/omissions? was it does so visually impressively that it gained for itself some wiggle room to remain in their good graces? to all adaptations have this wiggle room but some go too far?
Peter Jackson wanted people to see the extended (uncut) versions in the theatres, but Harvey Weinstein stopped him. In fact, Harvey wanted just ONE movie in the threatres, not a trilogy. 5 years of court proceedings - and the 'harvey weinstein orc" in return of the king (made at Jackson's specific direction) was the result. Too many people don’t realize they are arguing in favour of a version of this movies that was only shown in theatres because of legal reasons - not for artistic reasons. - Peter Jackson’s passion project team was forced to not show their full content as it would cut into what the cinema CEOs literally called the theatrical edition to get more screen time in and more mulla for themselves. It’s a such a nasty business. 80 percent true that money be the root of all evil. It’s the reason the real pumped out the EE as fast as possible in DVD format before the second and third film hit theatres to get back at Harvey Weinstein, again, they wanted people to see the whole movie which invites feelings of completion in one’s heart. But he just announced that’s he found 1300 hours worth of footage from a warehouse he finally got access to so we will see more specially made super extended edition cinema extravaganzas that no cinema would pass on the opportunity to ride on his coattails again. The EE wasn’t just for fans. He literally was adapting the books to film as honestly as possible. the DVD documentaries showed that they didn’t want to cut anything. And weaselled around things to create the EE. (EE is extended edition by the way! ❤️). Without the extended for the next two films I always say “Good luck missing the Boromir backstory. Good luck explaining why the cloak turns into a rock. Good luck explaining the elves that had explained their current situation since the first film. It all ties together good luck skipping the gift scene with Galadriel and Celeborn and the extra scenes between Aragorn and Celeborn & Galadriel to Aragorn!” It’s seriously needed for the film worldbuilding and heightening the stakes. Also, I’d rather have faith people have the emotional and intellectual IQ high enoug to understand it or shall we have changed the title to something else same as how JK was forced to change the title in America to sorcerers stone instead of PHILOSPHER as Americans don’t even know what a Philospher is anymore these days which is sad (done on purpose to dumb down a population). Relating to that: Tolkien was very sad about people losing connection to their past and heritage etc!
I can’t even watch the Jackson trilogy. It is not that they are not good movies. It is just because they are not the story that Tolkien wrote. There are people set in Middle Earth with the same names but certainly NOT the same characters. Jackson changed so much of the original Tolkien story that it is almost unrecognizable. The thing that is most unacceptable about the changes is the fact that Jackson disagreed with the “goodness” of Tolkien’s heroes. They were “too good” according to Jackson. So he made Frodo turn into a total jerk. Frodo was the ring bearer BECAUSE he was the only one kind hearted enough to hold out against the ring’s influence until the last moment. Jackson made Aragorn into a wimpy cry baby that had disdain for his ancestors! Tolkien’s Aragorn had been told by Elrond that he could only marry his daughter if he was king of both realms! Aragorn was greatly motivated from childhood to be king. Elrond, who Tolkien described as being, “as kind as summer” was made into a possessive argumentative jerk as well. Even Theoden King was made into a sad cowardly figure. Jackson even had to soil the name of Faramir, the most kind of all the heroes! Jackson’s years as a horror film director seem to have twisted his thinking or he already was bent toward preferring monster movies which is what he tried to make LOTR into. He cut out huge parts of the story to put in battle scenes that are just a small part of the book. Helms Deep took up most of the Two Towers in the movies e but was a part of a chapter in the book. Of course some of the story had to be cut out but he cut out even more just to add his own made up story. They were rewriting that story right up to the day of shooting….they were so uninvolved with the actual book. Galadriel held each one of the characters in her gaze and actually read their motivations when the travelers arrived. I don’t think that had anything to do with what Boromir was going to do. He was motivated to use the ring to win the war from when he first saw the ring at the Council of Elrond when he first saw it. He tried to resist but by the time that they were getting near to his homeland he was being powerfully affected by the ring. The ring had the most influence on people with wrong motivations so poor Boromir never stood a chance. Even back in Moria the rings power was growing. Boromir who had a very powerful personality and desire to defend his land was most powerfully drawn by the ring. Sam was always dedicated to Frodo. He had promised to stick by Frodo and he was not going to back down at any time. Even seeing the shire being destroyed did not change his mind for long.
The good news about Jackson's Boromir is that he's portrayed by Sean Bean, who I feel does a great job conveying that this character is a complex and conflicted man, but ultimately a hero. The bad news about Jackson's Boromir is that, like virtually every other character, he's still a puppet in Jackson's melodramatic, telenovela sword and sorcery version of The Lord of the Rings: like all of Jackson's male characters, his behavior that of a modern female than a male found in those old, epic tales that Tolkien loved so much.
Something that bothers me about the films is that they cannot unilaterally present both strong male and female characters. The man seem to have to be doubtful, reluctant characters who have trouble asserting themselves to allow for the female characters to show themselves as strong and resilient. It shouldn’t have to be that way, they both can embody strength.
@@keithtorgersen9664 - I submit without a shred of substantiation that Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, being females who grew up in semi-rural New Zealand, probably didn't have the best experience with males. So in all the other ways in which they didn't understand The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's males, displaying a wide spectrum of nobility, decency and goodness, simply didn't track with them. Ironically, they also didn't get Eowyn, and turned her into a modern female as well.
I think Galadriel gave that vision ton Boromir Hoping he would betray Frodon because she saw it would result in the greater good of Frodo going on his own and all that led to the ultimate destruction of the Ring.
Galadriel says, "I PASS the test"...not "I passed the test!". The test is not for her, it is for the Ring-Bearer, who is Frodo. This is a common misreading...
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Gimli and Legolas friendship doesn't come out of the blue. It started at the door in Moria. When they realize you needed to speak "Friend" in elvish to enter. I was a reminder to both of them of the better times between their peaples.
Nice.
Boromir made his intentions clear from the start---he wanted to use the ring to save his people. Galadriel didn't "push" him over the edge, she just held up a mirror to what he was thinking. From what I remember, his younger brother Faramir was mentally stronger and wanted to go to the Council of Elrond but Boromir went instead. Big mistake on his part.
Was it though? It’s obvious the hand of the divine has been nudging people and events for a long, long time. Bilbo spares Gollum, Gollum goes to Mordor, Sauron knows the ring is definitely back in play and begins his search for the Shire, the ring and the Hobbits win the race to Rivendale, the fellowship is formed with Baromir in it, Gollum catches up to the fellowship, and eventually Boromir attempts to take the ring and the orcs attack.
It almost certainly HAD to be Boromir that was “destined” to be the brother that went to the council. Had the fellowship remained intact, it’s difficult to imagine a way for Frodo to have safely gotten the ring to Mt Doom. With the fellowship broken, and no one even sure where Frodo and the ring are, it frees them to turn their focus to Sauron’s more worldly machinations.
Gollum was able to lead Frodo into Mordor. Sauron’s attention was drawn to the distractions of Saruman and Minas Tirith, and he is led to believe that Aragorn now has the ring. Frodo brings the ring right to the edge of the cracks of doom. Gollums final betrayal destroys the ring.
A lot actually depended on Boromir giving in to his desire to claim the ring.
@@mattphoenix4702a similar attack with Faramir instead could plausibly have seen him follow the book end from the Mt Doom side, but with other consequences in Gondor.
I think it was less his decision than Denethor's. Faramir saw the vision about the importance of traveling to Elrond several times but Denethor refused to let him go. It was only when the vision was given to Boromir and he expressed an interesting in going that Denethor allowed him to go.
As such it was obvious that whoever sent the visions - possibly the Valar? - wanted Faramir to go. What would have happened if he had is unclear, although one bonus is that Boromir wouldn't have been tempted by the ring and would be a strong commander aiding Gondor in resisting Mordor. Also one who Denethor might listen to.
The Fellowship would have lacked Boromir's sheer strength and power but how Faramir, with his greater wisdom would have interacted with the council and then the fellowship is difficult to say. I suspect the Fellowship would still have split because of the desire that Aragorn and Farimir would have had to aid Gondor but the drive that might be mission is without Boromir's attempt to take the ring its doubtful that Frodo would have decided that he had to go alone to avoid the ring tempting others in the party and the temporary - at the time scattered this would have been more difficult for him.
As I think it points out in the book the capture of Merry and Pippin was vital for a number of key events. It pulled Aragorn and the rest of the company - other than Sam who has realised what Frodo has decided - which might include Faramire westward on their pursuit of the orcs who have captured the two hobbits. Without this they wouldn't have met with Eomer and later Gandalf the White, or then have played a part in breaking wormtongue's hold over Theoden. This enabled the defeat of Sauraman's forces and hence Rohan being able to aid Gondor. Similarly without the hobbits managing to break free and meeting Treebeard the Ents wouldn't have played their own part in 1st breaking Isenguard and then playing an important role in finishing off his army. Similarly without all of this Aragorn wouldn't have gotten hold of the Palantir. By using it he revealed himself to Sauron, distracting him from the real threat of Frodo and Sam's silent approach to Mt Doom and also became aware of the threat from the Corsairs which prompted him to use the paths of the dead. This not only freed up forces from the southern fiefdoms to under his leadership play a vital role again in the defence of Minas Tirth but also along with Denethor's death helped cleared the way for him to be accepted as king. - If Faramir rather than Boromir had gone north and joined the Fellowship then I think the obvious choice would be to have Boromir fall in battle pushing Denethor into his suicide. However Tolkien decided it was better to send Boromir north.
Possibly this was partly to show the fallibility of humanity in terms of a bad decision and partly to show that there may be many ways to achieve a desired outcome - i.e. the defeat and final destruction of Sauron. I think that would fit well with Tolkien's philosophical views.
Quite. Whatever Galadriel did, Boromir's fate was sealed the moment he saw the one ring an the Counsel of Elrond. Galadriel only made what might have been hidden or glossed over obvious.
From what I remember faramir is the only human to touch the ring and not be overtaken by it.
If The Hobbit needed three films, LotR needed at least nine.
and the fall of gondolin, children of hurin, lost tales, beren and luthien... infinite material.
The Hobbit didn't need 3 movies though.
Maybe adding another hour or 2 to the extended edition would have made things better for fans, but I doubt it would have appealed to this wide an audience.
@@Hugh.ManateeAlternatively, instead of front-loading the first movie with newly created material from 80 years in the future and a fight/chase scene before reaching Rivendell the first movie was actually pretty well done and close to the text. Not so the next two movies! What could have been done is this first movie could have ended as they entered Mirkwood (perhaps), and it could conclude with a second movie-not three-that stuck to the text and didn’t fold on wildly inappropriate unrelated stories borrowed from other F&SF tales. Like converting sand worms into giant earth worms. Really? Ugh!
Galadriel's gift to Gimli has deeper meaning behind it, like most things in this movie & reflects the expanded lore of the middle earth universe. She is one of the 2-3 most powerful & wise elves remaining in Middle Earth since the time the land was young. She was born in a place called Valinor, or the Undying land... which is basically the place of residence of the Valar, the local pantheon, the local "gods" as you may call them. (Essentially the land that be untouched by Morgoth and where the holy ones still yet reside.)
Back then, the world was not illuminated by the sun&moon, (only the stars, but rather by 2 trees of gold and silver, Telperion and Laurëlin that lit the world before the sun & moon were born from their last flower & fruit as they were basically killed by Melkor when he struck them with his Lance and Ungoliant the primordial Eldrich Terror vampirized the life force of the two trees. Ungoliant she was named by the Eldar/Elves).
It is said that Galadriel's hair had enmeshed some of the shine and power of those two trees within her tresses. Her uncle Fëanor, who was a great king of the Elven people after his father Finwë was slain by Morgoth(Formally known as Melkor).
Fëanor arguably was their greatest craftsman & warrior to ever live (besides the father of his wife Nerdanel who mentored him since he was born), asked if she could give him a lock of hair, so that he could use it to fashion 3 gems that would shine of the same light as the trees. Sensing his pride & a shadow that wasn’t exactly belonging to him brewing from within, she refused his request 3 times. He stopped asking and made the gems anyway, managing to complete the task he had set for himself even without her hair.
Around these 3 gems, the possession of which became the driving force for many of the great events in the world, entire wars that lasted for centuries exploded, and other events. The gems actively shaped the fate of the races of middle earth to the point that the aforementioned Valar got involved directly. During these times, events surrounding the gems brought about the traditional enmity between Dwarves and Elves... the same enmity that Gimli still feels towards them.
That enmity however does not survive his encounter with the wise Galadriel, whom Gimli basically falls platonically in love with. By giving him 3 of her hair, Galadriel is opening a door, offering an olive branch that might one day close the gap that divides these two races. Legolas, himself being an Elven prince and centuries old, knows of the story through his father Thranduil & grandfather Oropher, as it shaped the lives of all Elves, and his subtle smile is possibly the first act of acknowledgment and reconciliation.
it is also a way for Peter Jackson, the director of the film, to give a nod to all of the fans who know these facts and backstories... a way to make us feel seen, and to make us appreciate just how deeply the makers of the film respect the books and larger universe created by Tolkien.
The thing with the hair may seem weird, but there is a significance to it in real life as well as in the lore of the story. In real life, it was not uncommon for wives, fiancés, or even girlfriends to give their men (who were going off to war), a lock of their hair as a keepsake, particularly in WWI, which Tolkien fought in.
The lore part of it comes into play in The Silmarillion, Tolkien's tales of the creation of Arda, the Undying Lands of Valinor, and Middle Earth. Galadriel is many, many thousands of years old, & was born in Valinor before the sun & moon were even created.
At the time, the world was lit by two trees, one gold and one silver which would shine at different times from each other, but would shine together once a day when one would fade and the other brighten. Galadriel's hair was said to look like the light of the mingled light from the two trees, which may have inspired Feanor, a master craftsman and heir to the high king of the Ñoldor, to craft the Silmaril's which were three jewels that captured the light of the two trees, one golden light, one silver light, & one co-mingled light.
Fëanor had a bit of a thing for Galadriel and begged her for her hair three different times, which she rejected because she could perceive the inner darkness of his heart and rejected him, which made them "un-friends" after that. There is a lot more to the lore than that, so this is the super crib-notes version.
But the point is, it was VERY significant that she granted Gimli three of her hairs to a dwarf, when she would not to the son of her king (great uncle) over 20,000 thousand years ago of which she is related to all three kings who were brothers and Elu Thingol of Doriath was one of the brothers that didn’t stay in Valinor even though he was one of the elven ambassadors along with his three brothers and that king I mentioned was VERY close friends with Thingol.)
Galadriel doesn't push Boromir over the edge. She shows him that he's already going over the edge as a chance to redeem himself.
Redeem himself from what exactly? He hasn't done anything wrong up to that point.
@jachyra9 From the corrupting influence of the Ring. By this point, he has begun to fall.
@@SuStel - But he hasn't been corrupted yet, so he doesn't need to be redeemed. You should look up the meaning of words before you use them.
@jachyra9 Jesus Christ, what is it with assholes in the comments?
Galadriel wasn't judging his actions; she was testing his heart, for her knowledge and for his. He was already being corrupted. She gave him a chance to recognize those problems and fix them. He failed to understand until after he tried to take the Ring from Frodo.
@@SuStel - "Jesus Christ, what is it with assholes in the comments?"
I agree. I don't know who let you in here. Maybe there's a support group you can join that will help you deal with your lack maturity and manners and hopefully grow up one day.
"He was already being corrupted."
Nope.
"She gave him a chance to recognize those problems and fix them."
Is that what she did?
"And the dwarf hearing the names given in his own ancient tongue looked and met her eyes, and it seemed to him that looked suddenly into the heart of an enemy and saw there love and understanding." One of my favorite lines in the book.
I understand why Jackson removed the scouring of the Shire it gives that story a simpler ending and cuts down the run time of an already long movie but it also removes some key character moments for Sam.
It also removes THE KEY character moment for the four Hobbits. They had been trained to be leaders and this was the first instance of them doing so. They became great among their people.
@@dandiehm8414 This film trilogy was a tour de force, but I hated the ending. Peter Jackson could have cut out bits from Aragorn's coronation, and the assembly at the Grey Havens could have been simplified and shortened. It was a very mawkish and sentimental departure scene that could have been done better almost in silence. At dawn, people speak in near whispers, as they do at funerals. So a solemn procession on to the ship with quiet acknowledgments would have been much better. By then, everything had been said. The scouring of the Shire is more important. Boromir's sudden bid for the ring is quite subtly signalled at Lothlorien, but leaving it out makes his later change of character inexplicable. The film wastes time with Galadriel turning witchy when an increase in her relative size and change in perspective would have conveyed the danger more effectively.
Boromir fell to wanting to keep his people safe. It is that same wish that made him repent so fast after the Ring was taken away from his presence.
Boromir is a classic tragic hero, I think. He is a good man, and noble, but with flaws. First, he believes that military might can prevail, even against Sauron. Second, he believes men to be incorruptible. The ring does seem to play on Boromir's desire for glory, but I think the other aspects of his character are stronger, both the flaws and his devotion to his people.
Alas for poor Boromir.
@@andrewbesso4257 Aragorn had it right. At least he triumphed even in his defeat.
Technically in the film legolas says "a balrog of morgoth" probably the only morgoth name drop in all 6 films.. so when you said "balrog of moria" it killed me a little inside
"Then let's get rid of it", "Come on Mr. Frodo, I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you".... and the waterworks begin.
That technically makes Sam the ring bearer who bore the heaviest burden.
“Of course you are (going alone) and I’m going with you!”
I saw that the day I turned in my final university thesis, saying goodbye for the last time to many friends I’d made before moving overseas. Sam is the type of friend I strive to be.
in the book Sam puts on the ring.
@@TheCyzergy He takes the ring when he thought Shelob kill Frodo. He puts it on when he went to rescue Frodo. after finding out that he was paralyzed from the venom. The ring influenced giving him courage to fight the goblins until he reached Frodo. Sam was the only one who gave it willingly to Frodo.
I think it's a moot question whether Boromir would have fallen had he not seen his darkest desire. This plot point is a classic look into the abyss kinda story. The abyss is there whether you look or not. And there are just as many stories of people being overtaken by their own darkness because they didn't see it coming. Seeing your darkness is always better, in my opinion. If one were to explore Boromir's story further, one might say that, by seeing his darkest desire in advance, Boromir was given the necessary tools to see his folly immediately after he'd attempted his betrayal of Frodo. One might even conjecture that this glimpse into his dark desire wasn't the reason for his downfall, which was already coming, but the reason for his redemption, which had been by no means assured prior. After all, though we know he saw himself with the ring, and perhaps even defeating Sauron, we don't know how far that vision went. It isn't too far a leap of the imagination to suppose he saw the cost to his soul, and to his people, of that victory. And he was left weighing that cost against the fall of Gondor, a true devil's bargain.
Of course, as these kinds of stories go, the choice between redemption and damnation was ultimately Boromir's, not Galadriel's.
“Hey! There’s that Ted Sandyman cutting down trees as he shouldn’t! Those trees didn’t ought to be felled, they shade the avenue to Bywater. I wish I could get to Ted and I’d fell him!” Don’t mess with Sam’s trees. 😂😂
In the book, we don't get to know much about what Galadriel offers each during her telepathic moment. We get a few hints, some more obscure than others.
Sam falters in mid-sentence as he reveals his offer. As if he comes up with an alternative offer. He says:
"She seemed to be looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with-with a bit of garden of my own."
I've always wanted to see it as Galadriel actually offering him “… a nice little hole with a nice little wife (Rosie)”, but that he's too shy to admit it.
Of course, I have no evidence for that. But I like the idea.
No, I think you are spot-on with this.
I don't think Galadriel put the 8 members to the "test" in order to guide them in either direction. She did it to find out which direction they wanted to go. I don't think it was a "test". It was more like an inquiry, or experiment. Naturally, she was interested in each of their inclinations. I wonder just how far Boromir's ambition would have had to been, for Galadriel to interfere with Boromir's continued presence in the Fellowship. She only mildly chastised him with words. Tolkien ALWAYS made the best choice, including this whole interaction. Jackson did not always make the best choices, even allowing for the absolutely necessary time constraints.
Galadriel also gives a bit of ring lore to Frodo as she explains to him that he must not try to expand his use of the ring to read others’ thoughts because the will to dominate another’s mind would destroy his mind.
And.. does this foreshadow something in book 3? Did Frodo not try, a few times in a sense?
Not in the way you’re thinking. Frodo never tried to focus his mind on dominating anyone’s will, he was already so weary from bearing the ring.
@@keithtorgersen9664 not sure about that.
@@archmage_of_the_aether There's a bit of analysis somewhere of Frodo saying something to Gollum and using the ring to bind him to a promise, something to the effect of 'if you break your promise and try to steal the precious again it will destroy you' and in the end he does and it does, so the analysis paints Frodo's use of words as an actual geas on Gollum rather than a simple promise 'on the precious'. I wish I could remember where I'd seen it, I would link it here if I could.
@@jenevastorme a geas, or a conditional curse. I like the idea that the Ring can deliver a Hags Curse.
Since they removed the Scouring of the Shire from the films, I think removing Sam from this scene is fine. Though they could have shown Sam’s vision of Frodo asleep under a cliff, which foreshadows Frodo being captured by Shelob.
I really disliked the "crazy witch lady" visual of Galadriel. Her speech was powerfull enough by it self: "I will diminish and go West, and remain Galadriel...". Knowing her full storyline it gives you goosebumps.
Respect were your coming from but I disagree. Because that part shows the one ring exerting some influence over her directly. In that moment she was truly becoming tempted. To see how frightening a aspect someone as kinda and wise as her would become begs the questions how much worse would it be in Sauron won and got it back.
It was really powerful when read in the book. Jackson did a great job with the movie but I'm pleased that I knew the book first.
It’s actually not crazy when you learn what an elf lord revealed in wrath is.
“I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?)
She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity?
Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance.
But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed.
(But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.)
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“Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible.
First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today.
Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor.
Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths.
Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth.
Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad”
(the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending.
Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
I’d you seen the extended edition you’ll see just Ho great she is
I hate how Rings of Power destroyed the mighty Galadriel. They had her clumsily firing bows when she used her power alone to cast off Sauron and the Ringwraith's, even though only in the Hobbit movies.
I greatly enjoy your series. My own opinion of Jackson's work is that he set out with great love in his heart for the original material, and with the determination to do it justice. He was also possessed of the wisdom that, in order for his work to have mass appeal and a certain timeless quality, he was going to have to simplify it for the uninitiated, meanwhile keep it as true as possible to the original material to satisfy the avid fans. This means transferring lines to people who didn't necessarily speak them in the book, just to make sure sentiments were expressed and points made, in a economy of scenes and run-time. All in all, my opinion is that he absolutely nailed it, despite the scouring of "the scouring" from the movie. Even better, the movie convinced my son to read the books, and we now have discussions about it that I enjoy immensely.
Keep up the good work.
I agree. In a sense I always viewed the films as a masterwork in balacing the story, action and quality. The films don't disappoint and they motivate people to read the books. Reading the books only enhances the love for the films.
Galadriel’s Gift To Gimli part 2 - ever wondered how old Galadriel is during the War of the Ring? I have looked in many different sources and depending on where you look, she’s anywhere from 17,000-20,000 elf-years old. 6,000 seems too young as it would make her close in age to Elrond, who I know is much younger than her even though he’s 6000-8000 by the third age, which wouldn’t make sense for her at all even if she was (“690 elf-years older” as some kept repeating on the internet making 6960!)As she was around long before Elrond was even born and time was experience differently to say the LEAST as there is a lot to go into on that subject lol.)
She was born during the Years of the Trees & back then the years were something like 9X longer than a solar year so I understand the math is hard, especially since she isn’t given an exact birth year. But it is said that Finarfin, her father, was born in Y.T. 1230, so I would assume she was born sometime within 1000 years of then (being generous).
Basically, I’m wondering what the most accurate range is for her age during the events of Lord of the Rings.
I’ll also add that Galadriel is was around before the ents even existed (of which Treebeard is 15,000 years old so she’s OLDER than Treebeard/Fangorn) or very close to when they were “created” by Yavannah and probably had much knowledge to do with such things and or direct knowledge of what happened.
Probably through an early prototype of her mirror or simply another dream that made her long for middle earth all over again ontop of the yearning she already had to go there and explore. Nothing to do with Fëanor’s oath and all that jazz.
(So by this current era in HUMAN solar years she’s like. 150,000 to 180,000 years old. Now that makes more sense if she’s going to be older than the sun and moon. Tolkien was always reiterating his manuscripts with the growing scientific discoveries.)
though Treebeard/Fangorn in the deeper writings is older than Galadriel as he was one of first brought into life by Yavanna to help protect nature while it was put into enhanced hibernation by Yavanna to protect them from Morgoth’s Ring (the poisoning of the world itself which caused it to bleed its magic away over the ages called The Long Defeat by the elves.)
Just going from the Appendices (and maybe Silmarillion) she would have to be at least 9000+ years older than Elrond, Elrond was born near the end of the First Age, Galadriel was adult before the destruction of the Trees.
Actually, more than that: I just checked, and the Second Age ended in SA 3441. So an elf born literally at the end of the First Age (FA 590) is 3441+3018 = 6459 years old when Frodo leaves for Rivendell.
Elrond was born in FA 532, so adds 58 years to get 6517. Elves are mature at 100, so Galadriel adds at leas 632 to Elrond's age, to be at least 7149, and possibly quite a bit more (as attested by other comments.)
One fic had Maglor(Elrond’s Adoptive Father, Maedhros was also adoptive father alongside Maglor, they were the eldest sons of Fëanor) - One fic had as much older than Galadriel; I wondered how we knew, and it was pointed out to me that Maglor was the second oldest son of the first son of Finwë, while Galadriel is the youngest child of the third son of Finwë. So, yeah.
Note that the second age was the LONGEST & again time was experienced very differently back then too aside from the internal clock of elves working very differently, she’s definitely older as far as the world and the other beings that age far faster around her.
I also remind you all that she’s older than the sun and the moon and witnessed & most likely even helped in the Valar’s crafting what would be the vessels of the last fruit & flower of the two trees of Valinor.
She was the most involved with learning everything possible from them and it was stated that she learned all there was to learn from ALL of the Valar that they could teach and she mastered all at a deep level. (Wow hey?)
She’s 25th generation from Tata one of the elven forefathers to wake to the stars. Their birth was rather shrouded in mist. Only those of her grandfathers ilk have a chance of knowing the origins a bit better as they are closer to that culture that stemmed from the beginning.
The Years of the Trees were the second of the three great time periods in Arda that followed the Years of the Lamps and preceded the Years of the Sun&Moon. They were known to be comprised of several Ages and lasted in total around 1500 Valian Years or 14,373 solar years.
Time flowed differently back then and time flowed differently within them too for the elves live as long as the world does. Epic hey?❤❤
The Dúnedain said that Galadriel’s height was two rangar, or "man-high" - some 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm). However, Galadriel's most striking feature was her beautiful long silver-golden hair.
The Elves of Tirion said it captured the radiance of the Two Trees Laurelin and Telperion themselves. Galadriel was said to be the tallest female in Middle Earth, at 6'4”. But then Thingol was the tallest elf ever to live, and he's estimated to be almost 9' (274 cm)
Thingol was also a very very prominent figure within the Silmarillion and other books. He’s the great ancestor of Elrond+Arwen and through Aragorn being directly but distantly related to Elronds Twin Brother Elros it makes him loosely connected to Thingol as well. Let’s just say he died a tragic death long long ago.
In a continent that doesn’t exist anymore. The events I spoke of in my earlier story of Elrond about his fathers deeds, which lead to the Valar helping with putting a Stop to Morgoth for good so to say and that War Of Wrath lasted 80 years straight and it left the landmass torn asunder from the clash of gods and the holy host of Vanyar elves that were closest to the Valar than all other elves so you can imagine what a bunch of mighty elves men and Maiar fighting a bunch of fowl creatures and beings for 80 years would do to a continent. It all fell into the sea.
Galadriel barely made it over the mountain before that part of the story officially broke out.
Did Galadrial break Boromir? Yes, but Boromir breaking probably needed to happen sooner rather than later. The books give you the sense that everything happens in the only way it can happen for Frodo to succeed (Aru stepping in?). If Boromir hadn't broken when he did, worse things would've happened, perhaps it happens in a worse place or time or Boromir succeeds in getting the ring etc.
The amazing thing that is the Legolas and Gimli friendship (something not seen for thousands of years) is why I absolutely HATE the love shit in the Hobbit movies that just DETROY the friendships special meaning.
It ruins the fact that Gimli is the only dwarf allowed to journey to Valinor and travels with Legolas. it was a story that really hit ... and when looking at other fantasies with dwarves... like Felix and Gotrek,(Gotrek never respected Felix in the same manor and still held his prejudices). there is never that bond like Gimli and Legolas.. it was and is a rare thing and the hobbit movies just kind of made a mockery of it
I didn't even deign to consider any far-reaching consequences of that crapfest, it didn't deserve the effort. The "romance" felt like something from a PC game dialogue choice - first pick sexual innuendo, then switch to romantic talk about the moon, tadah! achievement star-crossed lovers unlocked, special power: healng aid obtained. But yeah, "it was real", sure.
@@irena4545 indeed. But most forget a huge amount of The Hobbit was created by Deltoro, the one that made all the weird shite. Peter & the original team came in to rescue everything from a burning nosedive after he ran away midway during production… Jackson wanted to scrap it all and take more time to start over from scratch. He was rushed.
With regard to the timeline, Sam determines later the Company of the Ring was in Lothlorien for about a month, but to the members of the Company it seemed only a few days.
If they’re in a hurry I don’t understand why they’d stay there for a whole month?! Unless Loth Lorien has some kind of magic affecting the sense of time ? I prefer Jackson’s changes of a day or couple days
@@ilovenycsomuch This is a bit complicated. Gibby’s statement about the Fellowship staying in Lothlorien for a whole month is inaccurate. The statement is true with regard to the calendar in the world around Lothlorien, but Time flows slower in Lothlorien itself because of the power of Galadriel’s ring. We learn that she’s the keeper of one of the “Three Rings for the Elven kings under the stars.” So from the Fellowship’s perspective, they were there for only a few days. It’s later, after they leave Lothlorien, that Sam realizes by the phases of the moon that their sojourn was longer. Jackson apparently chose (probably rightly) not to spend time and dialog on all this nuance. But with regard to the timeline of the narrative, the book and movie are essentially in step.
@@EjonAlmirson that would actually be really scary & upsetting to discover (it reminds me of time flying by in the movie Click) especially when you’re on a time-pressing mission. Are the elves in Lorien aware of this & just not care or have become so used to it, or is it something they rarely realize ?
@@ilovenycsomuch It’s my guess these elves care but are accustomed to it. The elves in this world are immortal, so what we experience as years would be almost like hours to them. Things like the beautiful trees of Lothlorien, from an elvish perspective, would whither and die rather quickly while the elves lived on. With the power of Galadriel’s Ring, she can slow down the ravages of Time, and the elves can enjoy the other living things around them longer. When Sam later realized the passage of time, I think he was amazed, but not alarmed because he had a particular reverence for the elves.
@@EjonAlmirson that’s true, time is already of little to them since they live forever, but that’s cool that her ring slows down time for the life around them to delay the trees’ death, thanks for the info!
Yes I agree with Jackson's rendering of the story since as it's been said before, the story had to be adapted for the theatres and the time in which it was released and also for the time allowed for the movie to be filmed. The changes makes more sense than what was originally there since it had to harmonize the fellowship with the little time it had to air in the movie. Those criticizing the changes have no clue as to what it takes to make a work of art as the trilogy turned out to be and therefore should value the results over any preferences they may have had. Peter Jackson not only did the best work possible with what he had to work with, he also gifted the world with a story that will live on through the ages. Lord of the Rings, that is all.
Peter Jackson wanted people to see the extended (uncut) versions in the theatres, but Harvey Weinstein stopped him. In fact, Harvey wanted just ONE movie in the threatres, not a trilogy. 5 years of court proceedings - and the 'harvey weinstein orc" in return of the king (made at Jackson's specific direction) was the result.
Too many people don’t realize they are arguing in favour of a version of this movies that was only shown in theatres because of legal reasons - not for artistic reasons.
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Peter Jackson’s passion project team was forced to not show their full content as it would cut into what the cinema CEOs literally called the theatrical edition to get more screen time in and more mulla for themselves. It’s a such a nasty business. 80 percent true that money be the root of all evil. It’s the reason the real pumped out the EE as fast as possible in DVD format before the second and third film hit theatres to get back at Harvey Weinstein, again, they wanted people to see the whole movie which invites feelings of completion in one’s heart.
But he just announced that’s he found 1300 hours worth of footage from a warehouse he finally got access to so we will see more specially made super extended edition cinema extravaganzas that no cinema would pass on the opportunity to ride on his coattails again.
The EE wasn’t just for fans. He literally was adapting the books to film as honestly as possible. the DVD documentaries showed that they didn’t want to cut anything. And weaselled around things to create the EE. (EE is extended edition by the way! ❤️).
Without the extended for the next two films I always say “Good luck missing the Boromir backstory. Good luck explaining why the cloak turns into a rock. Good luck explaining the elves that had explained their current situation since the first film.
It all ties together good luck skipping the gift scene with Galadriel and Celeborn and the extra scenes between Aragorn and Celeborn & Galadriel to Aragorn!”
It’s seriously needed for the film worldbuilding and heightening the stakes. Also, I’d rather have faith people have the emotional and intellectual IQ high enoug to understand it or shall we have changed the title to something else same as how JK was forced to change the title in America to sorcerers stone instead of PHILOSPHER as Americans don’t even know what a Philospher is anymore these days which is sad (done on purpose to dumb down a population). Relating to that: Tolkien was very sad about people losing connection to their past and heritage etc!
I love Andy serkis’ audible version of the lord of the rings
@@flamesniper126 almost on par with the immersive mastery of Phil Dragash. Some didn’t even know if was all voiced by the same guy throughout. ❤️
It makes me wonder if at this point in history, we are living the Scouring of the Shire globally and if the seeds of wisdom are to be found in Samwise and the restoration of the Shire.
I never really cared for the nuclear Galadriel in this scene, but enjoyed Lothlórien overall.
I also always have a 3yo giggle when Sam substitutes "silver showers" for the original "golden showers". 😂
@@TheWanderingFire check for my main Galadriel comments below this video. Part one and two! I’ll post another two parter soon too!
In the book it feels to the fellowship that they have been in Lothlorien a couple of days, maybe a week. But when they leave they realise a month has passed outside. That discrepancy is a classic folk story trope of visits to fairy lands.
“I shall NOT be dark, all EVIL will despair” part 2 - All creatures whose flesh are nourished by the matter of Arda have a tendency towards Melkor AKA Morgoth, for greater or lesser. Since Melkor poured his evil power into the very existence and essence of the world(Morgoth’s Ring” book explains a lot including how and when he put a portion of his remaining power into the earth itself.
Sure, Galadriel was born in the Undying Lands where there was supposed to be no evil (souls of the Elves are greatly less subject to making faulty decisions), but Galadriel & the rest of her father's kin were directly targeted by the Evil Lord himself. Melkor corrupted a decent portion of the Noldor, basically telling them things along the lines of “My Valarin kin are cooping you all up in Valinor.”, which wasn’t their ancestral homeland to begin with, like Middle Earth was, Some were affected little, most were affected to greater degrees, and Galadriel was the least affected woman by the lies of Melkor, which were “sweet but poisoned honey" as she’d call his words.
Her natural pious tendency towards goodness & kindness as shown by her ability to read the hearts of everyone and all living beings around her which aids her to provide what anyone truly needs. Due to the magic bleeding from the world as the ages went on; thanks to Morgoth’s Ring poisoning the earth long ago; lead to a what if scenario in her mind as she’d be the only living creature left with the skills & power to even use the ring.
She didn’t need her ring at all to block him out of her realm telepathically as well as read his mind from afar without him knowing. But there is a difference between good people who are a bit morally challenged and the evil people.
The evil folk act upon their impulses and unlawful desires, while the good folk overcome such flaws within themselves (and for some not always they can masterfully do this). Galadriel WOULD NEVER listen to Melkor and tread the path of toxic pride and ambition.
Galadriel has a Fëa spirit that’s only grown larger as the ages passed on and on. Enough to channel into an effect that threw down fortress walls, without tiring her at all. And with that much Fëa, she is capable of holding her own against Maiar for a good long while, much like her brother Finrod did against Sauron, or her uncle Fëanor did against Balrogs.
Fëanor effectively lost all claim to the crown when he rebelled and dragged his entire house to Middle Earth. Where he promptly died a heroic death after slaying several Balrogs at the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; The Elves first encountered Lord Of Balrogs named Gothmog in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; (meaning “the battle fought under stars”) before the first rising of the Moon.
In that battle, Fëanor's fury had caused him to draw forward of the main force of the Noldor, and so he came upon Gothmog with only a small guard left around him that rushed so deep into enemy territory.
Fëanor slayed 2 or 3 balrogs at once & Gothmog slayed him after one bound him suddenly with its primordial flame whip when he was supposed to have an uninterrupted “one on one” duel with Gothmog but one wasn’t wanting to play fair. But he was fatally wounded and so his sons and host moved him away to a safe place where his body burned up from the fires of his own spirit.
Even with a lesser ring like Nenya, Galadriel had enough of a boost in her Fëa(spirit) , that she could sustain an unassailable magical realm against Maiar and virtually anything on Middle-Earth. Only problem was when Sauron wore the one ring, she had to take off Nenya, and had to lose that Maia level Fëa spirit from the modernly termed “boosted power up”
With the one ring, Galadriel would have such a boost in her Fëa spirit, that she’d literally become stronger than the foundations of the Earth.
She never once is called queen or desires to be called such a thing, she and her husband Celeborn became the wiseman and wisewoman of that realm; after the previous elven lord Amroth died, (how he died is shown in a wonderful song by Tolkien that was brought to life by Brociliande) and his wife Nimrodel disappeared ontop of the fact Amroth’s Successor later died as well in the “Last Alliance” where Amdir died, (same battle shown in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring), All Evil Despairs at her presence let alone hearing her name on the wind.
(They even founded Eregion together. she gracefully left after Annatar>Sauron sowed seeds of rebellion against anyone that had any level of lineage connected to the Noldor.)
The Nazgûl themselves avoid her realm every chance they get to the point of choosing to go the long way around for over 100 miles just to avoid her. (So she’s definitely scary to foul entities that have turned away from Eru Îlluvatar the one AllFather.)
She’s a totally good character. Aragorn even says to the Fellowship as they enter Lothlórien, “There is in her and this land no evil, unless a man bring it hither himself. Then let him beware!” If you’re going by her portrayal in the movies, you might think she has an evil element to her character, but that came from Peter Jackson’s portrayal of the addictive, coercive power of the Ring. When Frodo offered her the Ring, it presented her with visions of herself as the all-powerful Goddess of Middle-Earth.
Luckily, she was smart & intuitive enough to realize that the Ring was totally evil, and despite the best of intentions, it would have turned her evil in the end-but she still would have appeared to be beautiful and good. I don’t agree with Jackson’s “drowned Galadriel” portrayal of her being tempted by the Ring-I think she’d have appeared as a supernatural being of divine beauty, and her regular appearance was close to that already, but how do you show that in a movie? Apparently, in her youth in Valinor, she was somewhat of a rebel, but that’s not necessarily evil.
She certainly could have fallen into the same trap as her uncle Fëanor did, of thinking that everyone was entitled to her opinion-but she kept her ego in check. (If you’re not sure what I’m referring to there; please read The Silmarillion and “Unfinished Tales”.)
No matter how noble her reason was to use the ring as a last resort, especially if said fellowship fell off the “edge of the knife” as she called it. she had a change of heart which happened in the middle of talking to Frodo.
Galadriel left Valinor(The Undying Lands) for a reason - and it was different from most of the other elves.
She wasn’t with her uncle Fëanor, who wished to make war against Morgoth and retrieve the Silmarils - she was not wishing to go to war, and had no interest in the Silmarils in which Melkor stole from Fëanor which was the surviving light of the two trees of Valinor within them that the only Fëanor; the master of all elven smiths could have accomplished but it could not be done a second time as is any pure creation of one’s heart, especially in regards to the elves and Valar alike.
Though she traveled with her other uncle, Fingolfin, her goals were not aligned completely with his either despite her full support of her noble and regal uncle Fingolfin in general.
- They both wished to keep an eye on Fëanor and make sure the Noldor were in good hands -
Galadriel wasn’t interested in Fëanor and wanted her own realm. After spending some time in Doriath, Galadriel and her husband Celeborn passed to the east out of Beleriand and passed eastward through Eriador and over the Misty Mountains; to where she founded her own realm in what became renamed as Lothlórien. Her motivation and goal was to preserve her realm, possibly at any means necessary.
With Sauron’s return in the Third Age, Galadriel was forced to ask herself how far she would go to preserve her realm. If Frodo failed, she must forsake her own ring & her realm. If he succeeds, her ring will lose power and her realm will fade. Would she seize the ring, taking Sauron’s power for her own, to save her realm? She decided she would not. She had decided to “test” the Fellowship, to find some flaw that would allow her to justify seizing the ring, and she did find a flaw - in herself. She stated to Frodo, that by telling her that he would offer her the ring if she asked, that she had come to test his heart, but found that he was testing hers.
She had a change of heart, she would pass into the West, and remain Galadriel.
Which one is better? Being born completely good and living your whole life without any evil inside, or having a character growth ?
I always think that leaving the movies the way the books were is important. But sometimes considering time restraints, it is not logical to tell the story the same way. So long as fundamentals aren't involved, I think retelling is ok and still honours the book. Because if the movies ended up sucking due to storytelling, it wouldn't do the books justice. Instead what you have is a wonderful book, and separately wonderful movies, just told differently.
I guess, by that moment he believed that the Ring was the only hope for Minas Tirith, and without its help, his city would eventually fall. This was a really heavy burden, and it wasn't surprising that the Ring found its way to undermine his will and, at the right time, made him try to take the Ring by force. I don't think that Galadriel's temptation added anything significant to that burden, as it had already been sufficient to create a crack that the Ring could use.
I always thought when Boromir says, but I cannot see it, it was still Galadriel saying he cannot see it...because he's about to die
Interesting! Never thought of it thought way.
Woah.
Pretty sure that the meeting happened in a building on a platform in the tree rather than carved into the tree itself. Other than pedantic detail, you were spot on with your analysis. :)
Boromir's father false expectations broke him
I have always felt (for no good reason) that Galadriel only brought it to the front of Boromir's mind that the ring was the answer. In the book the ring has almost 7 weeks to work on Boromir, to ignite the burning desire to have the ring.
Does Galadriel show Boromir what will happen if he were to take the Ring, or does she show him his hearts desire, which happens to be taking the Ring and saving Gondor? He knows firsthand that Gondor is losing the war of attrition against the growing forces of Mordor and he ventured far to Rivendell searching for hope. As the Fellowship ventures south, he sees the folly of their plan to deliver the Ring to Mount Doom and imagines its “better” uses. While he does not desire the power of the Ring to rule over all, he does want the power to save his homeland. It’s impossible to ascertain how things would have progressed if Boromir had not seen this vision, but I don’t think it showed Boromir anything he hadn’t already contemplated.
That’s thought provoking!
I think we should remember that Galadriel (like Gandalf) is fundamentally wise and good. But being “good“ is not the same as being perfect. I am sure that in her dealings with Boromir she saw his peril and sought to help him. But wanting to be helpful does not mean that what we do is actually helpful.
We should also remember that Boromir is fundamentally a good man. But he was suspicious of Galadriel and therefore she may not have been able to help him.
A short time after the meeting with Galadriel he did two “stupid things” - firstly, he tried to take the ring from Frodo, and secondly he tried to take on a party of 100 Orcs.
It has been said that his motivation for trying to take the ring was love for his country combined with pride.
Perhaps his attempt to deal with 100 Orcs was also motivated by love for Merry and Pippin and pride (perhaps he really thought he could win?).
But perhaps both were motivated, simply by love for the other; perhaps that is why both actions played a huge part in the salvation of middle earth.
People always have mixed motives, and no one is perfect! I believe that Galadriel did her best to help Boromir and Frodo. And ultimately, the actions of both were redemptive.
I think Boromir would have tried to take the ring anyways, possibly later, causing problems if all of the Fellowship went to Mordor
True! Might have been more detrimental later.
I also think Boromir wanted to take the Ring, but there was no later. He failed to convince the Fellowship that the Ring should go to Minas Tirith. His attempt to take the Ring was a last ditch effort.
I don't think there is room for that "later." AFAIR, both Boromir and Aragorn were meant to leave the Fellowship and head to Gondor around that time - if the Fellowship chose not to go to Minas Tirith, that is.
@@aleksandrh.4251 oh thats right
If Galadriel hadn't shown Boromir his vision the Ring would have done so. She may have been the one who really set his mind upon it's traitorous course, but if she hadn't the Ring would've gotten him anyway. And it was fortunate that the fellowship broke when it did, for the Ring would've taken everyone but Sam and Frodo long before they reached Orodruin.
@@theholyinquisition389 this is why in the books Legolas permanently kept himself at a far distance from Frodo and Sam. He and Aragorn would easily resist. Same with Gimli as his blood ancestor is Dúrin the deathless after all. First of 7 to be created from the earth itself by Aulë, one of the main Valar. ❤️
@@Makkaru112 There's no way anyone but Frodo and Sam (and maybe Merry and Pippin) could've resisted the Ring inside Mordor.
Part 1 - “I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?)
She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity?
Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance.
But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed.
(But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.)
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“Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible.
First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today.
Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor.
Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths.
Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth.
Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad”
(the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending.
Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
Funny how Rings Of Power Galadriel would have failed even worse than Boromir
“I shall NOT be Dark. (All evil) will despair”, The elves (Galadriel especially is one of the few remaining that existed before the sun & moon. They pre-existed day & night.) How utterly, completely terrifying do you think it would be for your whole world to irrevocably change in a matter of an hour? For the thousands of years of (what you would come to know as twilight to be abruptly ended in a profundity of genuinely painful light and an infinity of colour? Of the joy, wonder and terror of distinguishing the difference between green and blue for the very first time in your whole life?)
She is talking about the immediate, majestic sublimity of reality that one experiences in it's totality for the very first time. How on earth could that not be so terrifying as to threaten one's sanity?
Galadriel with the ring would be exactly as beautiful and horrifying. I personally would not know whether to weep bitterly and perfectly, or claw my eyes out through the sheer, unutterable terror of her being in such a circumstance.
But know this: she was showing Frodo what would happen if someone else got the ring. She wasn’t tempted at all. Gandalf tells. Galadriel shows. See the difference now. Two sides of the same coin. Both were needed.
(But yes there was a more fluid beauty full of colour before the rise of the sun. Her uncle, Fingolfin, whilst in middle earth beheld the first rising of the sun and to see this wide field before him in even more definition than before while he was in Middle Earth. This was also the beginning of the dominion of men.)
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•
“Beautiful & Terrible as the dawn” Galadriel was quite correct to call the morning and night both “beautiful and terrible…”. In truth the physical and metaphysical natures of morning and night were both by turns beautiful and terrible.
First the morning. Physically the morning is the result of the golden fruit of Laurëlin, transformed into a vessel by Aulë’s craftsmen, hallowed by Varda and piloted by the fiery Maiarin spirit Arien. The sun was so terrifyingly powerful that its radiance instilled fear even into Melkor’s heart and defied the assault of his minions. She literally gave up her physical form to take her original form and enveloped the sun; becoming its flames we see today.
Physically the sun is a beautiful golden orb yet it is simultaneously terrifying in its intensity and cannot be observed directly for more than an instant without pain. Metaphysically the morning is beautiful because it diminishes the evil power of those creatures who haunt the night, gives strength to the righteous and because it illuminates the serene loveliness of Valinor and Middle-earth. Metaphysically the morning is terrible because it obscures the light of the stars and sheds light on the ugly reality of Arda Marred, whose very substance is corrupted by the power of Melkor.
Last the night. The night is the Void surrounding the globe of Arda, which existed even before the creation of the Ainur at the beginning of time itself. Physically the beauty of the night lies in the fact . Physically the terror of the night is that it conceals the beauty of Arda and limits the senses of the elves and gives strength to the creatures of evil such as orcs, trolls and the Ringwraiths.
Metaphysically the night is beautiful because it is during the hours of darkness that the stars of Varda, the most beloved creations for the elves, shine most brightly. Metaphysically the terror of the night for elves, who are irretrievably bound to the world of Arda, is that the Void represents the interstellar coldness which is the prison of Morgoth.
Terrible in its more original archaic form didn’t always mean “bad”
(the sun stuff was to move it into a place where Melkor couldn’t go by virtue of how the Valar and Maiar are bound to the world until it’s ending; (which isn’t the true end either. It’s deep stuff. There ends up another song of creation which all kindreds take part in and working with the powers of that long ago past of our world to rebuild everything. Even the Mountains too, healing it after Dagor Dagorath, Also known as the final battle, the worlds ending.
Becoming the greater version of the original form before Melkor’s discord into the first music and so forth which dictated eventually what all ended up ensuing when they entered the world the first time which also was interesting because when they entered it after seeing the complete version it hadn’t been done yet so that was millions of years of work which lead to Middle Earth and the other lands being the remnants of it. Including Valinor being the only remnant of an even older world. At that time of building and tending to the world when the world was young.)
Y’all love the full scene with Frodo+Sam &Galadriel the great Peter Jackson & team didn’t seem to include.. which all this little stuff lead to that scene in the movies which gave it more meaning; & the”one who has seen the eye” thing was a mistake by the team. It gave the wrong message and was not needed as it lead some reactors to be like “so creepy lol” which diminishes how much farther that well done scene could have gone especially in the extended to do it properly as in the books that lays it out perfectly.: •[Frodo] stepped back shaking all over & looked at the Lady. “I know what it was that you last saw”, she said; 'for that is also in my mind. Do not be afraid! But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!'
She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Evenstar had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood.
'Yes,' she said, divining his thought, 'it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper.
'He suspects, but he does not know - not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.'
Frodo bent his head. 'And what do you wish?' he said at last.
'That what should be shall be,' she answered. 'The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged. Yet they will cast all away rather than submit to Sauron: for they know him now. For the fate of Lothlórien you are not answerable but only for the doing of your own task. Yet I could wish, were it of any avail, that the One Ring had never been wrought, or had remained for ever lost.'
'You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel,' said Frodo. 'I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it. It is too great a matter for me.'
Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. 'Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,' she said, 'yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest?
'And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!'
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.'
They stood for a long while in silence. At length the Lady spoke again. 'Let us return!' she said. 'In the morning you must depart for now we have chosen, and the tides of fate are flowing.'
'I would ask one thing before we go,' said Frodo, 'a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them?'
'You have not tried,' she said. 'Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight has grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring?' she asked turning again to Sam.
'No, Lady,' he answered. 'To tell you the truth, I wondered what you were talking about. I saw a star through your finger. But if you'll pardon my speaking out, I think my master was right. I wish you'd take his Ring. You'd put things to rights. You'd stop them digging up the gaffer and turning him adrift. You'd make some folk pay for their dirty work.'
'I would,' she said. 'That is how it would begin. But it would not stop with that, alas! We will not speak more of it. Let us go!'
When at last all that [Galadriel] had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the peaceful rule of Middle-earth which she had dreamed... her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it....
Meaning definitely by now it’s become trivial to her. Even back in the day he couldn’t find her or pierce her mind and whenever he went looking for her presence he boils t find her ALL AT THE SAME TIME AS HER BEING ABLE TO READ HIS OWN MIND WITHOUT HIM KNOWING! Often times even from a great distance. That’s power. Just one calm look from her is all it takes to send even the Nazgûl run away from her. They even avoid her realm entirely, opting to travel hundreds of miles around her realm; both because of its own power as well as they know exactly who she is and her exact lineage through themselves being very old. 4000+years old. Especially the WitchKing(head Nazgûl). Remember Númenorean men are not like other average men. They were known to be rather superhuman & very tall. Between 6-8 feet.
I just gotta give it up to the person who made your little pixelated hobbit it's so cute 🥰
I always felt for Boromir since reading the books as a child. One of the best in the world in battle, able to slay enemies by the dozen but knows he cannot defeat Sauron and his hordes alone. Tries a different method, becomes corrupted and in the end goes back to what he does best. Dies going forward in a futile effort to save those weaker than himself. Very working man ending.
Boromir was probably my favorite character from the movies. I find him so interesting because his faults sorta boil down to that he was a realist, there's nothing inherently wrong with his way of thinking, other than that he was a realist in a fantasy novel. A powerful weapon existed that could defeat Sauron, he felt it was better that they had it than to walk it right to Sauron's doorstep (quite a smart decision in my mind). I know in Tolkien's world it's not meant to be questioned whether or not the ring can really corrupt a person or not, it's nailed home pretty hard that it corrupts everyone it comes near, but in our world it's totally legit to question some item that people claim are "cursed", and so as a viewer nothing Boromir does or says really comes across as unreasonable. Ok, well he does turn on Frodo and try to kill him, and well okay I can't defend that, but I mean he was the tragic hero, he was meant to fail and to fall, but other than that...
That's cruel as hell. Showing him a vision where his personal plan succeeds is kinda like showing someone a future in which alcohol solves all their problems. You give someone a vision like that, no matter what their own plans were and they'll think that the gods are saying they should go through with their plans.
Since Peter Jackson didn't intend to include the Scouring of the Shire it makes sense to also not include Sam's vision foretelling those events.
1. The exact contents of Galadriel's "temptation" of Boromir are not revealed in the book. We are told that everyone in the Fellowship is given the choice between going on with the mission or receiving what they would most desire. Boromir refuses to say what he was offered, only that he refused (of course). I think we can surmise from all of the descriptions in the text that Boromir is less interested in the salvation of Gondor than his own role as its savior. Perhaps that is what he had to choose between: his own glory and the fulfillment of the quest. The movie made Boromir more noble and likeable than Tolkien's presentation.
2. Galadriel does NOT say that Sam can't turn back. She says he cannot turn back without abandoning Frodo. Presumably he could have returned to the Shire at this point -- a tough journey, but he's about to make a tougher one. It's a decisive moment for the character that is completely left out of the movie.
Giladriel was trying to give him wise advice, trying to make him aware of the path he was treading. Boromirs failings were his own, exacerbated by the power of the ring. One by one, it would've happened to each of the fellowship. Even Gimli.
My interpretation of what may have been intended by Galadriel turning into her “witch lady” form was to represent what the elves were first like when they came over from Valinor.
Keep in mind, the Noldor are not supposed to be in middle earth and when they first came over they were strong enough individually to slay balrogs - or at least the greatest of the Noldor were, which Galadriel was one of.
I see this scene, a scene representing Galadriel being tempted by the ring’s power, was to show a glimpse back in time to the power and yet the folly of the original Noldor who crossed the sea. This is Galadriel being tempted with her greatest desire, but overcoming it. Metaphorically representing the spiritual and ethical maturity she and the Noldor broadly have developed. They will diminish and return to be humbled before the Valar and ask forgiveness.
just came across your channel - great video to start off, great work
Boromir was like, Frodo lend me the ring, and Frodo NO NO NO, and then he pulled his last trick, come on Frodo im Boromir, not Stealomir!
Eru Illuvatar wears the same robe as the statue 🗽 of Liberty which also wields the flame imperishable.
The only reason Saruman attempted the scouring of the Shire is because he didn't know Sam. If he did, he would stay the hell away. Nobody wants that smoke, LOL
I know Tolkien (as also is friend Lewis did) hated the "what if . . " thoughts, but I believe Boromir would say exactly what his father Denethor says many pages ahead, it is that he don't want the ring to use it "but in the extreme situation" and that possibility is what finally corrupts them.
Denethor = done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & even now was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time.
So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher Faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way!
He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he was reminded of his wife over & over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife.
But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil.
Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
i feel like the movie made borimir look weak compared to everyone else, while the book added him to explain how strong the ring was toward everyone else and why frodo resisting it was so important.
I'd like some pancakes. Whipped cream, butter, bacon, bananas and maple syrup. Yum!
Charitably, Galadriel hastened the fellowship to positions they would have arrived at on their own, with enough time. But when comparing the visions of Sam and Boromir it does seem a bit harsh. Comparable tests would have either both using the ring to save their lands, or neither. But, you could argue that Boromir was already thinking of using the ring, and Sam just wanted well rid of the whole thing. Galadriel just made it happen sooner, so there would be more time to recover from betrayal or abandonment.
Peter Jackson removed a lot from the original story, and he added stuff that was not in the books.
well, she wanted Aragorn on the throne of Gondor and her own granddaughter Arwen as his queen, as such Galadriel for sure had the motive to get rid of Boromir...
@@Chociewitka Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien!
Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces.
Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen:
‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices.
To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever).
Plus there is the scene in Lorien, where Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar, which went from Galadriel to Celebrian to Arwen and then back to Galadriel in order that she give it as a gift to Aragorn. Again it speaks to me as a collaborative act, and part of Galadriel helping bring the two together:
And Aragorn answered: “Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it.”
“Yet maybe this will lighten your heart,' said Galadriel; for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.” Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring.
“This stone I gave to Celebrían my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!” From LOTR FOTR BOOK
Remember this as well: Their children will now have the blood of all top tier elven clans bloodlines as well as have the blood of a Maia spirit. All of this reinvigorates mankind with the ability to have a higher sway towards goodly godly ness and to better harmonize with the world around them. The elves were meant to stay in middle earth and mentor mankind into becoming the next stewards of the world until it’s remaking together with the Ainur. ❤️
@@Chociewitka guess my comment disappeared
@@Chociewitka Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien!
Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces.
Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen:
‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices.
To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever).
Plus there is the scene in Lorien, where Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar, which went from Galadriel to Celebrian to Arwen and then back to Galadriel in order that she give it as a gift to Aragorn. Again it speaks to me as a collaborative act, and part of Galadriel helping bring the two together:
And Aragorn answered: “Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it.”
“Yet maybe this will lighten your heart,' said Galadriel; for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.” Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring.
“This stone I gave to Celebrían my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!” From LOTR FOTR BOOK
@@Chociewitka Remember this as well: Their children will now have the blood of all top tier elven clans’ bloodlines as well as have the blood of a Maia spirit. All of this reinvigorates mankind with the ability to have a higher sway towards goodly godlyness and to better harmonize with the world around them. The elves were meant to stay in middle earth and mentor mankind into becoming the next stewards of the world until it’s remaking together with the Ainur. ❤️
@@Chociewitka part 1 - Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while both both visited in Lothlorien!
Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces.
Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen:
‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices.
To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever).
Boromir was broken by his father as his father began using a palentir and slowly came under the enthrall of Saron. Through this he fell under an evil depression and this effected his sons. Boromir was the favored son and Faramir lessor. But where Boromir bore the weight of being favored by a slowly corrupted father whom he could not help. Faramir bore the weight of never being good enough for his father. Ironically both Denathor and Faramir loved Boromir most of all. Perhaps Boromir, too felt he could not live up to their feelings for him.
This is a tragic story indeed.
Nope. Denethor was NOT. It was just a foolish movie thing.
Denethor = done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & even now was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time.
So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher Faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way!
He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he was reminded of his wife over & over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife.
But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil.
Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
for the fact that they never have the sacking of the shire in return of the king removing Sam wasn't a bad move seeing as that never happens
Sir, before anything else, please let me complement your work on this video; this may be your best yet.
As far as removing Sam's vision from the movie, IMO it would have been redundant; I'm certain that even the new fans - the ones who went to the cinema having no knowledge of the characters or story - understood EXACTLY who Sam was by the time this scene rolled.
Your theory of Galadriel accidentally harming Boromir is really fascinating, especially since Movie-Boromir had already possessed the Ring - if only very, very briefly - and had given it back to Frodo of his own free will. While I would not equate this with what Bilbo, Frodo and Sam were able to accomplish, it showed that Boromir COULD resist the Ring under the correct circumstances. If true, it adds yet another layer of tragedy to Boromir's story; he may never have quite achieved Turin- or Maeglin-levels of "...doomed from the start..." but it's still poignant IMO.
The rest of the changes... meh. FotR was already a long movie for its day and IMO some time-compression was necessary. I'm annoyed that the Gandalf / Durin's Bane magic duel was replaced by the never-ending stairway collapse, and I'm VERY annoyed that Gimli very eloquently asking for a lock of Galadriel's hair (and only because she demanded he do so) was deleted, but, on the other hand, it's fine that Celeborn's most inhospitable moments were deleted.
I think Galadriel's test preventer boromir from falling later in the mission when it would have proved ruinous.
Jackson did fine👍
Either what we got
For break up fellowship into 2 movies 🤔
The passage of time is different in Lothlorien to the outside world.
*BOOK/Elrond:* 'This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.'
*MOVIE/Galadriel:* 'Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.'
Just one of many examples of Team Jackson's love for not only stealing dialogue but for taking beautiful, eloquent sentiment and turning it into banal, greeting card mush. The Hallmark Channel must love these movies.
“Begone, if you be not deathless! For whether living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him!”
“I am no man.”
🤦♂️
@@keithtorgersen9664 - It's okay. Didn't you know that you could totally take out the Witch King with a gender reveal and an assist by Charlie from LOST and his trusty not-enchanted blade of Westernesse?
Troll
The light reflecting from Gladriel's eyes looks different from the rest. The light from one of the Two Trees is reflected there. At least, that's what it looks like to me.
About removing scenes. PJ would have had many more opportunities for character development etc. if he had cut the action sequences to match the books. I know, I know, he had to do it because he did do it.
The books won international acclaim and near universal love by the way it was written. PJ would have done well to keep the personalities that Tolkien wrote and used much more character development
Look for my Galadriel comments here. Click the button that shows most recent comments. Add to the conversation!
I believe that Boromir would have eventually broken. Galadriel just brought it to the surface sooner.
It was more like putting heat on a boil. Brings the thing to a head so Boromir could do less damage over time as a hidden wedge.
The Radio4 adaption preserves Gimli's dialogue with Galadriel. It's a lovely moment
FYI. It is not called telepathy but an actual power of the elves called Osanwe. It is canon. Tolken actually writes about it .
I think Peter Jackson and the screenwriters have done a really good job here. It would be strange to follow Boromir and Galadriel's telepathic dialogue. Instead, they have given Boromir a different arc of charactor throughout the film.
Other times (e.g. the ring in the snow on the mountain), Boromir is tempted to go over the edge and become corrupted in a convincing way, and yet/thus they are indirrectly true to the book.
I also think the change at the mirror of Galadriel is relevant and better for a movie. More focus is on Frodo and his interaction with Galadriel. That's important because Frodo has had a rather vage personality compared to the book so far. That the film uses the Scouring of the Shire in Frodo's view as a reminder of his responsibility, I think is a neat solution.
And like Boromir, the film has instead given Sam alternative events that help strengthen his determination and maturity, for example Gandalf's words "Don't you leave him, Sam" which are significantly stronger in the film than in the book, Sam's bigger conflicts with Frodo and Gollum, etc.
Screenplays have to deviate from the originals sometimes. Now and then it gets bad in several movies. Here I think Jackson has done really well to streamline and improve the film.
Finally: I follow your entire series of analyses. I have made many points and comments, and it may appear that I am critical. On the contrary! I admire your dedication and find this book/movie analysis series to be by far the best and most rewarding I've seen. Many thanks! I am impatiently looking forward to the comming parts
"It would be strange to follow Boromir and Galadriel's telepathic dialogue."
Yet we were forced to follow Galadriel's and Elrond's telepathic dialogue.
"More focus is on Frodo and his interaction with Galadriel." "the film uses the Scouring of the Shire in Frodo's view..."
Tolkien included Sam here because he is and has always been instrumental to understanding Frodo's character. If the focus is just on Frodo, we don't understand Sam's importance. Which probably doesn't matter since there is no such scouring of the Shire in the films.
"Gandalf's words "Don't you leave him, Sam" which are significantly stronger in the film than in the book"
This isn't stronger. It's just different. Which, like a lot of occasions in the films, makes the change unnecessary and impotent dramatically.
"Sam's bigger conflicts with Frodo and Gollum, etc."
Such as Frodo inexplicably and uncharacteristically believing Gollum, not trusting Sam and sending him home? We all this this is stupid and nonsensical.
@@jachyra9
I think you're confusing "not faithful to canon" with constructive filmmaking. You are of course free to think what you want. And we may think differently. I also don't like how the movies treat Frodo and Sam's relationship in the third movie. But now I am only analyzing how a film script can tell a partially different story to achieve the same specific goal.
I hate Frodo's rejection of Sam, but at the same time I realize that it is a way of telling how Sam matures, becomes stronger and remains faithful.
What Tolkien thought (Sam at the mirror, among other things) is therefore subordinate to my analysis right now. I analyze how the film production makes constructive choices to bring about a desirable result in its film narrative. And right here I think it's beneficial to leave Sam out, the same way it's beneficial to leave Bilbo out of Elrond's council for several reasons, even though it goes against what Tolkien wrote.
@@raimat66 - "I think you're confusing "not faithful to canon" with constructive filmmaking."
I'm not. I don't see anything constructive about the filmmaking. And never place quotation marks around words or phrases when you're not directly quoting someone.
"You are of course free to think what you want."
Thanks.
"And we may think differently."
Probably.
"But now I am only analyzing how a film script can tell a partially different story to achieve the same specific goal."
Except that the changes made don't result in the same specific goal.
"I hate Frodo's rejection of Sam, but at the same time I realize that it is a way of telling how Sam matures, becomes stronger and remains faithful."
This makes no sense. Because it doesn't do that at all. Sam doesn't change in the films from start to finish. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Sam was mature, strong and faithful from the beginning. There was no need to test his character with some fabricated nonsense.
"What Tolkien thought (Sam at the mirror, among other things) is therefore subordinate to my analysis right now."
A justification.
"I analyze how the film production makes constructive choices to bring about a desirable result in its film narrative."
But they don't.
"And right here I think it's beneficial to leave Sam out, the same way it's beneficial to leave Bilbo out of Elrond's council for several reasons, even though it goes against what Tolkien wrote."
Considering that there were individuals present in the film's council who had no identity and no speaking parts, why on earth would it have been beneficial to exclude Bilbo?
@@jachyra9
My quotation marks enclose a concept I wanted to emphasize, not a quote. That's how you can do it in Swedish. If it works differently in English, it's understandable if you react. A bit picky, maybe. Well, well...
Now comes a quote:
"Except that the changes made don't result in the same specific goal."
It is written as a statement, but by all accounts it is an opinion..
I like to discuss opinions, but find it difficult when opinions are "dressed" in the guise of assertions.
You keep talking about how it is, but by all accounts it's your opinions that you're expressing. It becomes too difficult to interpret partly if it is an opinion, partly to contradict it. Or rather: I'd rather stop at "we seem to think differently" than enter into a, as I perceive it, pointless dialogue about how different we think. We have already established that.
I don't just mean Bilbo's physical presence, but his interaction. And I think there is a point in moving his first glimpse of the ring to the scene where he gives the sword and mail shirt to Frodo. And therefore, in my opinion, there is a point in him not attending the council, and that he has not seen the ring before that.
@@raimat66 - "My quotation marks enclose a concept I wanted to emphasize, not a quote. That's how you can do it in Swedish. If it works differently in English, it's understandable if you react. A bit picky, maybe. Well, well..."
The language doesn't matter. It's always wrong. If you want to emphasize a word, you use italics. Like this: _italics_
"It is written as a statement, but by all accounts it is an opinion.."
No. It's written as a statement because it is a statement, not an opinion.
"I like to discuss opinions, but find it difficult when opinions are "dressed" in the guise of assertions."
Doing it again.
"You keep talking about how it is, but by all accounts it's your opinions that you're expressing."
No. I'm comparing and contrasting what's on the screen with what's on the page. That's not a matter of opinion.
"I don't just mean Bilbo's physical presence, but his interaction. And I think there is a point in moving his first glimpse of the ring to the scene where he gives the sword and mail shirt to Frodo."
Yes. The point is to indulge in a cheap jump scare. Just one of Jackson's many shlock horror movie ticks.
"And therefore, in my opinion, there is a point in him not attending the council, and that he has not seen the ring before that."
Confirmation bias.
Except for every scene with Bernard Hill, Sean Beans had my favourites.
Splendid video! Have a sub.
its not Galadriel that breaks Boromir, its Aragorn. Movie- "your people" -aragorn in Rivendell. "I will not let the white city fall, nor Our people fail".-Aragorn as Boromir dies "Our people" "our people"-boromirs last words.
The sword scenes and their changes in the extended versions are key to making it very clear.
book version is not as clear. Boromir is expressly thinking of his people and says so. Aragorn does also commit to protecting Minas Tirith, but does not expressly admit they are his people here.
"They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken
them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them.' He paused and his eyes
closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again.
'Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.'
'No!' said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have
conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall
not fall!'
Boromir smiled.
'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn.
But Boromir did not speak again."
Boromirs problem was ALWAYS Aragorn denying his humanity, and the crown.
I see Boromir as a noble but flawed and at the end broken man. He is never evil but rather breaking to inner weakness. I do think it entirely possible that the full break comes from the testing from Galadriel but don’t see that in anyway making her the cause of or responsible for his failure. Even if she is the trigger or catalyst, I think he breaks from within. I could even see her doing so for strategic reasons since he failed to take the ring. By trying to do so when he did he set other things in motion that might have gone far worse if he had been free to try to take the ring later than he did. Her influence may even have been intended to make him more self aware and less self assured, throwing him off balance and increasing his chance of failing to get the ring. Again I think the movie makes him seem like a villain when he is more a noble warrior who becomes a tragic character in his fall. This also gives weight and sense to Aragon’s interactions with him before his death. And it’s another area that Galadriel’s keen regal nature tends to be underrated.
I have never liked Galadriel. She's straight up creepy. And I think she made him face how weak to temptation he is,, which is a hard pill to swallow. No one likes to have to come face to face with their flaws.
No.....the ring was going to work on all of them...even Sam.....in time....His beloved Gondor being in trouble was his breaking point. He wanted to use the ring long before he may the lady
Maybe that's your opinion. And it can be influenced by the film's narrative. They say so in the movie. In the book it is never pointed out and nothing shows that it is about to happen either. Bilbo had the ring during his adventure without it affecting any of the dwarves, even though they traveled together much longer than Frodo and Boromir.
with all the changes from the original book...why did lotr fans love the movies and didn't freak out and rage over the changes/omissions? was it does so visually impressively that it gained for itself some wiggle room to remain in their good graces? to all adaptations have this wiggle room but some go too far?
I liked the movie, but I love(d) the books. Perhaps if the reading (a few times) hadn't preceded the movie I'd have a different take.
I wonder how many movies and how long total the storey would have been if Peter Jackson didn't omit as much as he did.
He didn’t do the omitting. Shocker!😮😅
Peter Jackson wanted people to see the extended (uncut) versions in the theatres, but Harvey Weinstein stopped him. In fact, Harvey wanted just ONE movie in the threatres, not a trilogy. 5 years of court proceedings - and the 'harvey weinstein orc" in return of the king (made at Jackson's specific direction) was the result.
Too many people don’t realize they are arguing in favour of a version of this movies that was only shown in theatres because of legal reasons - not for artistic reasons.
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Peter Jackson’s passion project team was forced to not show their full content as it would cut into what the cinema CEOs literally called the theatrical edition to get more screen time in and more mulla for themselves. It’s a such a nasty business. 80 percent true that money be the root of all evil. It’s the reason the real pumped out the EE as fast as possible in DVD format before the second and third film hit theatres to get back at Harvey Weinstein, again, they wanted people to see the whole movie which invites feelings of completion in one’s heart.
But he just announced that’s he found 1300 hours worth of footage from a warehouse he finally got access to so we will see more specially made super extended edition cinema extravaganzas that no cinema would pass on the opportunity to ride on his coattails again.
The EE wasn’t just for fans. He literally was adapting the books to film as honestly as possible. the DVD documentaries showed that they didn’t want to cut anything. And weaselled around things to create the EE. (EE is extended edition by the way! ❤️).
Without the extended for the next two films I always say “Good luck missing the Boromir backstory. Good luck explaining why the cloak turns into a rock. Good luck explaining the elves that had explained their current situation since the first film.
It all ties together good luck skipping the gift scene with Galadriel and Celeborn and the extra scenes between Aragorn and Celeborn & Galadriel to Aragorn!”
It’s seriously needed for the film worldbuilding and heightening the stakes. Also, I’d rather have faith people have the emotional and intellectual IQ high enoug to understand it or shall we have changed the title to something else same as how JK was forced to change the title in America to sorcerers stone instead of PHILOSPHER as Americans don’t even know what a Philospher is anymore these days which is sad (done on purpose to dumb down a population). Relating to that: Tolkien was very sad about people losing connection to their past and heritage etc!
Was just a fun thought and Q.
I'm aware of the history behind the movies.
She defo pushed him over the edge
No, but she did foresee it. She gives him a golden belt (typical for funerals) so that he would have a funerary outfit. She knew he would die…
I swear the thumbnail has changed at least four times already...
I can’t even watch the Jackson trilogy. It is not that they are not good movies. It is just because they are not the story that Tolkien wrote. There are people set in Middle Earth with the same names but certainly NOT the same characters. Jackson changed so much of the original Tolkien story that it is almost unrecognizable. The thing that is most unacceptable about the changes is the fact that Jackson disagreed with the “goodness” of Tolkien’s heroes. They were “too good” according to Jackson. So he made Frodo turn into a total jerk. Frodo was the ring bearer BECAUSE he was the only one kind hearted enough to hold out against the ring’s influence until the last moment.
Jackson made Aragorn into a wimpy cry baby that had disdain for his ancestors! Tolkien’s Aragorn had been told by Elrond that he could only marry his daughter if he was king of both realms! Aragorn was greatly motivated from childhood to be king.
Elrond, who Tolkien described as being, “as kind as summer” was made into a possessive argumentative jerk as well. Even Theoden King was made into a sad cowardly figure. Jackson even had to soil the name of Faramir, the most kind of all the heroes!
Jackson’s years as a horror film director seem to have twisted his thinking or he already was bent toward preferring monster movies which is what he tried to make LOTR into. He cut out huge parts of the story to put in battle scenes that are just a small part of the book. Helms Deep took up most of the Two Towers in the movies e but was a part of a chapter in the book.
Of course some of the story had to be cut out but he cut out even more just to add his own made up story. They were rewriting that story right up to the day of shooting….they were so uninvolved with the actual book.
Galadriel held each one of the characters in her gaze and actually read their motivations when the travelers arrived. I don’t think that had anything to do with what Boromir was going to do. He was motivated to use the ring to win the war from when he first saw the ring at the Council of Elrond when he first saw it. He tried to resist but by the time that they were getting near to his homeland he was being powerfully affected by the ring. The ring had the most influence on people with wrong motivations so poor Boromir never stood a chance. Even back in Moria the rings power was growing. Boromir who had a very powerful personality and desire to defend his land was most powerfully drawn by the ring.
Sam was always dedicated to Frodo. He had promised to stick by Frodo and he was not going to back down at any time. Even seeing the shire being destroyed did not change his mind for long.
Absolutely agree, especially about Jackson.
Jackson's editing leaves a lot to be desired.
Fact of Fantasy
just from a book to movie standpoint, who cares if they change it from a month to less than a day, its a movie. it would be boring otherwise
Why is Galadriel's hair so important?
Long story, but I explain some of it in the following episode. 👀
@@factorfantasyweekly Thx
The good news about Jackson's Boromir is that he's portrayed by Sean Bean, who I feel does a great job conveying that this character is a complex and conflicted man, but ultimately a hero. The bad news about Jackson's Boromir is that, like virtually every other character, he's still a puppet in Jackson's melodramatic, telenovela sword and sorcery version of The Lord of the Rings: like all of Jackson's male characters, his behavior that of a modern female than a male found in those old, epic tales that Tolkien loved so much.
Something that bothers me about the films is that they cannot unilaterally present both strong male and female characters. The man seem to have to be doubtful, reluctant characters who have trouble asserting themselves to allow for the female characters to show themselves as strong and resilient. It shouldn’t have to be that way, they both can embody strength.
@@keithtorgersen9664 - I submit without a shred of substantiation that Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, being females who grew up in semi-rural New Zealand, probably didn't have the best experience with males. So in all the other ways in which they didn't understand The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's males, displaying a wide spectrum of nobility, decency and goodness, simply didn't track with them. Ironically, they also didn't get Eowyn, and turned her into a modern female as well.
I suggest you redo the movie trilogy and this time follow the book word by word
I would love to see a book accurate set of films or television series.
I think Galadriel gave that vision ton Boromir Hoping he would betray Frodon because she saw it would result in the greater good of Frodo going on his own and all that led to the ultimate destruction of the Ring.
Gimli was sad not because of the loss of Gandalf but of Balin.
Algorithm
It's the eye of Lucifer which is Eru
The light bringer. Non evil. Satan just means the enemy. Win the battle within. Your greatest enemy is yourself.
@@Makkaru112 ok but he did trick me in the past Lucifer did
@@Makkaru112 Melkor is the statue of Liberty 🗽 but Eru isn't good either
@@Makkaru112 ok yes bàby
🤠👍
Galadriel was messed up, I always blamed her for Boromir's fall . She seemed like a semi-evil character and a creep.
Galadriel says, "I PASS the test"...not "I passed the test!". The test is not for her, it is for the Ring-Bearer, who is Frodo. This is a common misreading...
Errr ... nope. Declining the Ring demonstrates she has finally attained humility and can return to Valinor.