The m1 garand can handle all modern commercial loads under 175g as long as you grease the op rod and parts correctly don't use oil lubricant you need grease.
The M1 is just fine with commercial ammo. keep bullet weights at or below 180 grain and you will be just fine with off the shelf ammo. Even says so in your CMP manual. The M1 was designed around the M1 ball ammo. M2 reduced pressure ammo was introduced a year AFTER the M1 rifle was adopted. the 30-06 cartridge was developed at 50,000 CUP, its still at 50,000 CUP. A properly maintained M1 will survive just fine on box ammo. been shooting Gold Medal Match 168g Federal out of mine since the 70's and havent destroyed an OP rod yet. I replace recoil springs at 500 rounds and properly grease my rifle. Proper maintenance is more important than reducing pressures in the ammunition.
Thanks for the comment. This video was mainly directed at reloading for the M1. There are several 30-06 loads that produce 60,000 CUP with 168 gr. bullets and these should be avoided in my opinion.
Makes you wonder just how many rifles were damaged over the years by guys getting them, running to Walmart and buying a couple boxes of hunting ammo and then after shooting a box or two, screaming about the rifle being a piece of junk?
It take a lot to bend an oprod, m2 ball was training ammo, the garand was set up for ww1 m1 ball that's 174 grain and higher pressure, I don't recall the numbers but no commercial ammo 180 gr or under will bend your op rod.
@@williambadding6160absolutely. I run plenty of commercial ammo. It works just fine. I also got a hollow gas plug. Not the posted one but one that has extra space in the gas cylinder that supposedly lets you shoot even heavy ammo with higher pressures that are higher than 180. I got it just in case but I’m kinda in a just send it mode with my m1.
Greek ammo is safe . I use it and use the brass. I have military documentation that the used 50 grains of IMR 4895. I personally use 46.5 with my rifle . The grouping is best. Always work your loads low to high and watch your primers for any high pressure signs. Garands like oil
One point. Almost every gun that comes from the CMP has an NM oprod. Its not national match. Its New Manufacture. From the late 30’s until mid 40’s the military was using up the 173 gr M1 ball originally loaded for the springfield. They came out with M2 ball in 38. The garand was “tuned” for M2 but they shot a lot of M1 ball. And they had a lot of oprod failures. The old oprod had sharp corners in the dogleg. They failed frequently requiring oprod replacement. Then in 1944 they figured it out. They made oprods with rounded corners AND stopped using M1 ball. They used it all up and only made M2 from then on. So the oprods with rounded corners are marked NM so the armorers could easily spot guns needing the oprod replaced. Thats why.
@@kyfirearms My pleasure. I have two CMP M1’s. Mine that I got in 82. And Dads when he passed in 2012. One other point. You may get stuck were commercial ammo is all you have. There are replacement “adjustable” gas plugs that you can tune for some ammo or another. By bleeding gas. So. You want to hunt with hot 220gr ammo? Remove the gas plug. Put it in the but trap or other safe place. Shoot away. Any safe 06 load. The gun wont cycle. The op rod will not bend. You have a straight pull rifle until you get some M2 ball. Then pop the gas plug in and go to shooting. Not good for war. Works fine hunting.
In the vid when you are showing the load info on the back of the targets you have a 147 grain bullet with 45.5 gr of 4895. Then you show the 168 grain bullet with the same 45.5 grain charge. Kind of new to this but is that ok? I guess I was figuring that the heavier bullet would require less powder charge to keep it at safe pressures? Again not questioning you, just new to this and want to learn. Thanks
Yes, in theory that is more or less the case. Always use good, published load data, which is what I do. Hornady has a section dedicated to M1 Garard load data. Some of the charge ranges will overlap between different bullet weights. Load data 168gr for IMR 4895 is from 39.6 to 47.1 grains. I was still well below the max charge for the 168gr and 147 bullets. It is a fun hobby and there are no bad questions as I am not an expert in ballistics. Hope this helps, Thanks for the comment.
Get rather tired of all the "Your not suppose to go over or under xxx bullet weight with an M1" that you constantly hear. I have been shooting 190 gr HPBT Match kings with 41.0 gr IMR 4895 for a VERY long time. At that loading is is very slow and the pressure is at 35k which is slightly lower than M2 ball. On the op rod, pressure is the key. Yes you have to be able to shoot and account for trajectory. I shoot them primarily because I ended up with MANY thousands of them. I also shoot this round in my original 1895 Winchester 30-03 which I do not want to stress too much.
Sorry if you thought I was beating you up I just wanted to make sure you knew what powder to use and what grain bullet on the grand again I apologize if you think I was beating you up
No, not at all. I totally understand why you commented and really appreciate it. I felt like I needed to clarify the other video and I don't want to be the reason someone messes up their rifle. I appreciate your comments and hopefully they will help people who watch that video. Hope you are well and everything is good for you.
I wish someone would build an oprod jig to sell. I heard there was a guy at the camp perry match that has the only one in existence. Those bends are pretty crucial to that rifle working right.
Regarding the weight and hence the volume of the brass, going back to 1968 which is when I started loading for the 30/06, we used H-110 powder to measure the volume. It is SUPPOSED to be the same as water for the volume that may be stated as so many grains of water, etc. So I used new brass, ironed out a used primer and seated it backwards , measured case length as a standard control and used H110 to fill the case and weigh it to compare the various cases. Lake City Match was about equal to Remington BACK THEN. Don't know about recent production of either. Winchester was always thinner and showed lower pressures with equal charges and bullets. As for powders I always used IMR 4895. Period. 165, 168, 172 grain bullets. The Government loaded the Match bullets to 2640 fps so that was what I loaded for. Ten inch twist. Of course there are much higher velocities possible but the object is to put the bullet into the target, not scare it off with muzzle blast. Or shoot the throat out of the rifle. By the way, last I heard H-4895 used to be made at Radway Green Factory ammunition plant in UK. Used for 7.62x51MM. Definitely not interchangeable with IMR 4895.
I shoot the 147 gr without any problems, it isn't the most accurate. I use them to fawl the barrel after cleanings. It is best not to mix headstamp of brass when shooting, you are correct, different brass reacts differently and that affects accuracy in your groupings. IMR 4895 or H-4895 I believe to give the best results and overall function of the rifle, IMR 4064 is a little too slow for the garand in my opinion with a bit of higher pressure being forced onto the bolt, they will function properly, but you take a risk on ware and tare on the bolt lug areas over time. One of the main things above all when loading is properly sizing your brass, you do not want a out of battery fire, that usually destroys the rifle. also puts the shooter/bystanders at risk of serious injury at the same time. I have seen it. you don't want that to happen to you. Good follow up video.-Dave
I see this video was posted when covid was really going. Lately though M1 spec ammo has been more available. There's a couple sites that have it for around .50/rd If it shoots well it might be worth the trouble to pull one apart and try to duplicate it.
I know this video is 2 years old but I’m glad I watched forgotten weapons RUclips channel of gas plugs for them1 Garand. I found out that there are technically 4 types maybe more but the main 2 were the schuster and the Garand gas plug. Both had their purposes of redistributing the gas pressure to ease the op rod. In the video they tested surplus up to 200 grain 3006. Both gas plugs did their jobs however each had their own pros and cons. With surplus ammo sadly almost gone and if you find any it’s extremely expensive I now devoted my time and money into reloading.
Hello KFW, one thing you should do is check the velocities of Military M2 ball ammo, then you will have some reference not to go over. You cannot go wrong with IMR 4064 or 4895. Enjoy shooting
Thank you for the comment. I did purchase some Greek HXP and have been trying to emulate it's velocity and accuracy. This gun shoots lights out with that HXP, but it's pretty scarce these days. Thanks again.
Get a Garand Gear gas plug and you can forget about your gas port pressure problems as long as you keep your pills relatively small (180 or under) My favorite load so far is 51 grains of imr 4064 under a 150 grain Hornady interlock. WLR primer. Mixed brass. FL resized.
@@kyfirearms No problem, I used a Chrono on this load and was getting 2778 fps out of my m-1 (48F 70% humidity). Obviously work up your loads from lower power charges...but these numbers are close to m2 ball specs and with the Garand gear gas plug it shoots noticeably smoother in my opinion.
Since max book of 55.3gr of 2520 is 59,703cup or about 10,000cup over the M1 Garand Spec. 150gr of 2520 is 2.7x as much as will fit in the case with a drop tube compressed. So lets say you get 66.8gr max compressed into the case and seat a 150gr Hdy FMJ-BT. You are pushing 92,043cup. Nearly 2x the SAAMI standard is just slightly outside of my safety margins...And I don't think an Op Rod earring would look very good with the bolt embedded in your forehead.
The m1 garand can handle all modern commercial loads under 175g as long as you grease the op rod and parts correctly don't use oil lubricant you need grease.
The myth of the fragile M1 op rod will never die.
@@paulseeley7913 well it weeds out the sheep from the wolfs
The M1 is just fine with commercial ammo. keep bullet weights at or below 180 grain and you will be just fine with off the shelf ammo. Even says so in your CMP manual. The M1 was designed around the M1 ball ammo. M2 reduced pressure ammo was introduced a year AFTER the M1 rifle was adopted. the 30-06 cartridge was developed at 50,000 CUP, its still at 50,000 CUP. A properly maintained M1 will survive just fine on box ammo. been shooting Gold Medal Match 168g Federal out of mine since the 70's and havent destroyed an OP rod yet. I replace recoil springs at 500 rounds and properly grease my rifle. Proper maintenance is more important than reducing pressures in the ammunition.
Thanks for the comment. This video was mainly directed at reloading for the M1. There are several 30-06 loads that produce 60,000 CUP with 168 gr. bullets and these should be avoided in my opinion.
Makes you wonder just how many rifles were damaged over the years by guys getting them, running to Walmart and buying a couple boxes of hunting ammo and then after shooting a box or two, screaming about the rifle being a piece of junk?
Unfortunately, it probably happened quite a bit.
It take a lot to bend an oprod, m2 ball was training ammo, the garand was set up for ww1 m1 ball that's 174 grain and higher pressure, I don't recall the numbers but no commercial ammo 180 gr or under will bend your op rod.
@@williambadding6160absolutely. I run plenty of commercial ammo. It works just fine. I also got a hollow gas plug. Not the posted one but one that has extra space in the gas cylinder that supposedly lets you shoot even heavy ammo with higher pressures that are higher than 180. I got it just in case but I’m kinda in a just send it mode with my m1.
My girl pissed me off so I strapped her to a chair and made her watch this video, she is no longer with us.......
Greek ammo is safe . I use it and use the brass. I have military documentation that the used 50 grains of IMR 4895. I personally use 46.5 with my rifle . The grouping is best. Always work your loads low to high and watch your primers for any high pressure signs. Garands like oil
Great information. Thank you, I really appreciate it.
oil and grease!
@@maxi5482 For me just oil..... I use to use grease but not anymore... I use syntetic mobil 5-20wt. It stays there even after weeks.
If it rotates- oil it
If it slides- grease it
One point. Almost every gun that comes from the CMP has an NM oprod. Its not national match. Its New Manufacture. From the late 30’s until mid 40’s the military was using up the 173 gr M1 ball originally loaded for the springfield. They came out with M2 ball in 38. The garand was “tuned” for M2 but they shot a lot of M1 ball. And they had a lot of oprod failures. The old oprod had sharp corners in the dogleg. They failed frequently requiring oprod replacement. Then in 1944 they figured it out. They made oprods with rounded corners AND stopped using M1 ball. They used it all up and only made M2 from then on. So the oprods with rounded corners are marked NM so the armorers could easily spot guns needing the oprod replaced. Thats why.
Great comment. Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it.
@@kyfirearms My pleasure. I have two CMP M1’s. Mine that I got in 82. And Dads when he passed in 2012.
One other point. You may get stuck were commercial ammo is all you have. There are replacement “adjustable” gas plugs that you can tune for some ammo or another. By bleeding gas. So. You want to hunt with hot 220gr ammo? Remove the gas plug. Put it in the but trap or other safe place. Shoot away. Any safe 06 load. The gun wont cycle. The op rod will not bend. You have a straight pull rifle until you get some M2 ball. Then pop the gas plug in and go to shooting. Not good for war. Works fine hunting.
Yes.... infamous Op Rod "Relieve Cut" to reduce stress near dog-leg joint.... But mine missing "NM" marking.... meaning?.... good day sammy
In the vid when you are showing the load info on the back of the targets you have a 147 grain bullet with 45.5 gr of 4895. Then you show the 168 grain bullet with the same 45.5 grain charge. Kind of new to this but is that ok? I guess I was figuring that the heavier bullet would require less powder charge to keep it at safe pressures? Again not questioning you, just new to this and want to learn.
Thanks
Yes, in theory that is more or less the case. Always use good, published load data, which is what I do. Hornady has a section dedicated to M1 Garard load data. Some of the charge ranges will overlap between different bullet weights.
Load data 168gr for IMR 4895 is from 39.6 to 47.1 grains. I was still well below the max charge for the 168gr and 147 bullets. It is a fun hobby and there are no bad questions as I am not an expert in ballistics. Hope this helps, Thanks for the comment.
45.5 gr H335 under a 150gr Hornady FMJ doing 2750 has been a good load for me.
Awesome, Thanks for the info. I haven't tried H335 in mine but will give it a shot.
Get rather tired of all the "Your not suppose to go over or under xxx bullet weight with an M1" that you constantly hear. I have been shooting 190 gr HPBT Match kings with 41.0 gr IMR 4895 for a VERY long time. At that loading is is very slow and the pressure is at 35k which is slightly lower than M2 ball. On the op rod, pressure is the key. Yes you have to be able to shoot and account for trajectory. I shoot them primarily because I ended up with MANY thousands of them. I also shoot this round in my original 1895 Winchester 30-03 which I do not want to stress too much.
You're right, pressure is the key. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
Sorry if you thought I was beating you up I just wanted to make sure you knew what powder to use and what grain bullet on the grand again I apologize if you think I was beating you up
No, not at all. I totally understand why you commented and really appreciate it. I felt like I needed to clarify the other video and I don't want to be the reason someone messes up their rifle. I appreciate your comments and hopefully they will help people who watch that video. Hope you are well and everything is good for you.
I wish someone would build an oprod jig to sell. I heard there was a guy at the camp perry match that has the only one in existence. Those bends are pretty crucial to that rifle working right.
Regarding the weight and hence the volume of the brass, going back to 1968 which is when I started loading for the 30/06, we used H-110 powder to measure the volume. It is SUPPOSED to be the same as water for the volume that may be stated as so many grains of water, etc. So I used new brass, ironed out a used primer and seated it backwards , measured case length as a standard control and used H110 to fill the case and weigh it to compare the various cases. Lake City Match was about equal to Remington BACK THEN. Don't know about recent production of either. Winchester was always thinner and showed lower pressures with equal charges and bullets. As for powders I always used IMR 4895. Period. 165, 168, 172 grain bullets. The Government loaded the Match bullets to 2640 fps so that was what I loaded for. Ten inch twist. Of course there are much higher velocities possible but the object is to put the bullet into the target, not scare it off with muzzle blast. Or shoot the throat out of the rifle. By the way, last I heard H-4895 used to be made at Radway Green Factory ammunition plant in UK. Used for 7.62x51MM. Definitely not interchangeable with IMR 4895.
Excellent comment and information. Thank you 👍👍
Great video love the info I saved the pdf file great article
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
My gun loves 110-125 gr sierras for 100 yard matches
I like the Sierra #2130, with 44.4 gr IMR 4895…..
I shoot the 147 gr without any problems, it isn't the most accurate. I use them to fawl the barrel after cleanings. It is best not to mix headstamp of brass when shooting, you are correct, different brass reacts differently and that affects accuracy in your groupings. IMR 4895 or H-4895 I believe to give the best results and overall function of the rifle, IMR 4064 is a little too slow for the garand in my opinion with a bit of higher pressure being forced onto the bolt, they will function properly, but you take a risk on ware and tare on the bolt lug areas over time. One of the main things above all when loading is properly sizing your brass, you do not want a out of battery fire, that usually destroys the rifle. also puts the shooter/bystanders at risk of serious injury at the same time. I have seen it. you don't want that to happen to you. Good follow up video.-Dave
Do you think cci 34 primers are necessary? I didn't have any problems with the WLR, but have read not to use Federal primers.
I see this video was posted when covid was really going. Lately though M1 spec ammo has been more available. There's a couple sites that have it for around .50/rd
If it shoots well it might be worth the trouble to pull one apart and try to duplicate it.
The m1 garand shot m1 ball as well until the m2 ball supply was prevalent enough to use.
Thanks bro!
I really appreciate all the detailed information you provided !
Thanks. I am glad it was helpful.
get a shuster gas plug and you can tune your loads
I know this video is 2 years old but I’m glad I watched forgotten weapons RUclips channel of gas plugs for them1 Garand. I found out that there are technically 4 types maybe more but the main 2 were the schuster and the Garand gas plug. Both had their purposes of redistributing the gas pressure to ease the op rod. In the video they tested surplus up to 200 grain 3006. Both gas plugs did their jobs however each had their own pros and cons.
With surplus ammo sadly almost gone and if you find any it’s extremely expensive I now devoted my time and money into reloading.
Reloading is the only way to go now. Thanks for the comment.
Hello KFW, one thing you should do is check the velocities of Military M2 ball ammo, then you will have some reference not to go over. You cannot go wrong with IMR 4064 or 4895. Enjoy shooting
Thank you for the comment. I did purchase some Greek HXP and have been trying to emulate it's velocity and accuracy. This gun shoots lights out with that HXP, but it's pretty scarce these days. Thanks again.
Watch your ammo American Eagle boxed M1 ammo will SLAM fire!
Thanks, good info. I have only used PPU and it did fine. I did just order some S&B for the Garand, hopefully it will be safe.
Get a Garand Gear gas plug and you can forget about your gas port pressure problems as long as you keep your pills relatively small (180 or under)
My favorite load so far is 51 grains of imr 4064 under a 150 grain Hornady interlock. WLR primer. Mixed brass. FL resized.
Thanks, I appreciate the comment and will look into it. I will have to try out your load as well.
@@kyfirearms No problem, I used a Chrono on this load and was getting 2778 fps out of my m-1 (48F 70% humidity). Obviously work up your loads from lower power charges...but these numbers are close to m2 ball specs and with the Garand gear gas plug it shoots noticeably smoother in my opinion.
Very good follow up. I read the comments on the first video when I watched it.
Thanks brother
Thank you for your research!
Thanks for your info! Just about to reload for my M1.
Thank you. Good luck and enjoy shooting your reloads.
Try 150 gr of AA2520. Behind a 150 Gr FMJ.
150 grains of AA2520?
Since max book of 55.3gr of 2520 is 59,703cup or about 10,000cup over the M1 Garand Spec. 150gr of 2520 is 2.7x as much as will fit in the case with a drop tube compressed. So lets say you get 66.8gr max compressed into the case and seat a 150gr Hdy FMJ-BT. You are pushing 92,043cup. Nearly 2x the SAAMI standard is just slightly outside of my safety margins...And I don't think an Op Rod earring would look very good with the bolt embedded in your forehead.
Interesting!!
Thanks