I continue to be stunned by how ignorant most of your scholarly guests are concerning the topics of animal personhood, agency, emotional expression, self-awareness, etc. What makes it worse is the painfully obvious fact that they are basing their theories of mind, morality, and so forth on a set of assumptions about human exceptionalism that don't stand up to the latest empirical studies on animal cognition and behavior. They don't even seem to be able to recognize in their own pets what most pet owners know. Instead, they seem to be on a mission to save from irrelevance the received beliefs that underpin their own disciplines. It's so transparent. Your guest is a theologian, and so no matter what he says about animals, he's going to bring it back to the theologian's core assumption that human beings are the only creatures who possess a sacred relationship with God. No amount of empirical study will ever end up supporting such a claim, and so in some sense, reality is the enemy to his whole project of theology. It is as though Einstein conceived of general relativity while holding tight to the received belief that there are only four elements in creation: earth, fire, water, and air. He never would have gotten anywhere by maintaining such an antiquated and empirically false perspective. If there is a saving grace in this situation, it's that Professor Couenhoven and his colleagues are far from the worst offenders among your interviewees. At least he has an excuse--theology is fundamentally about belief vs. empirical observation. The real problem people are your world-renowned scientists, mathematicians, physicists, cosmologists, etc. They actually think that the contributions they are making toward understanding the true nature of the reality we inhabit are the reality itself... that the mathematics or physics or astrophysics or psychology that they are currently pursuing is how things really are. As a group, your guests seem almost panicked by the notion that all their advances have not changed the fact that we live in and with mystery. Almost the entire mass of the universe is still unknown to us. Why then should we feel so secure in thinking we know what is going on, or not going on, inside the minds of animals? But to me, the greatest mystery of all is why such highly educated people remain nevertheless so resolutely unreflective about their unexamined biases and archaic beliefs. Figure that one out, and maybe you will at last get closer to truth.
A lot of words for nothing of substantive criticism other than "I don't like that he has theological and metaphysical commitments". What empirical studies can you show that disprove classical metaphysics?
1. why? ego identity...all humans have it. 2. brain wiring... in case of RLK, he approaches all questions strictly with linear, causal "logical" thinking which is his neurological mode of operandi. logic alone cannot answer the fundamental questions.
Forgiveness is not an act of altruism but a wise move to avoid escalations or future troubles. It can be for the good of both parties involved, offender and the bearer.
You know what else is unique to humans? Farming, car manufacturing, musical instruments, space flight, submarines, books, television, clothing, marriage, poetry, universities, baseball, paint, our ability to end life on earth, our duplicity, to go negative for a moment, etc. etc. We are to all other animals as the sun is to a grain of sand. A singular focus of many scientists seems to be to diminish the unique qualities of human beings. I think that leads to a general feeling that we are unworthy and deserve whatever comes our way. We are unique. We are valued and valuable. We are so much more than similarities between our brain structures and that of higher animals. We are maximized for good and ill. Most of the time, most people do or attempt to do the right thing for the right reasons.
@@MJ1 You need to take a politeness course. I’m rather surprised that someone of your diminished capacity is even watching these videos. They are intended, I presume to foster interesting and civil debate. Your response indicates to me that that you are capable of neither.
@@simonhibbs887 I don’t think there’s any doubt that some are. The most advanced of them haven’t built 100 storey skyscrapers or flown to the moon to my knowledge. We are orders of magnitude more intelligent, capable, evil, creative and destructive than any others living creatures that we know of. My only point. A simple statement of fact.
This conversation is oversimplifying. There are many variables. However, when you forgive someone, do so without telling them, unless they of their own volition ask for forgiveness. You will benefit from this whether they acknowledge their offense or if they never do.
"Please remember what I told you to forget," Tavares sang. Forgiveness and forgetting go hand in hand. Amnesty has its roots in amnesia. Unlike fish, which forget after 3 seconds, humans can consciously choose to remove from their minds the hurts caused by others, if not entirely, by putting the pain in its proper perspective. The alternative is to let the search for justice turn into a grudge.
You cannot forget anything beyond you know, so forgiveness is just like covering sun by something to say look there is no sun, but that doesn't solve the problem for long, understanding is the way out, how you recognize and remember something and how cam you alter your mind in reality, with the memory without the emotional link of any incidences, that is the one of the ultimacy of humanity to achieve
We complicate these things so much. Forgiveness goes all the way back to tribal societies. They had to work as a cohesive unit, or all could die. When Urg slapped your woman's backside at the party to get a laugh, you best forgive Urg before the next lion comes visiting. You're gonna need him... he's gonna need you.
But it is conditionally given: You have to be convinced of the claim. So rather than being tied to morality, salvation is dependent on where and when you live, and how gullible you are. I say this as an ex-Christian who was dragged from my faith by evidence and cannot simply choose to believe.
@@seanpierce9386 Morality salvation is self-righteousness. God is not self-righteous. He is righteousness. If you believed in the first place? Which I believed you did. You cannot lose the Holy Ghost. Or that would make God our father a liar. According to His Word HE WILL NEVER JUDGE TOU BECAUSE JESUS WAS JUDGED IN YOUR PLACE AMEN. THE CHURCH HAS GOT IT WRONG I DO NOT JUDGE YOU EVER. SPEAK TO ME I WILL NEVER FAIL YOU!
@@noelsetterington648 I appreciate the sentiment. But what of those who cannot believe because they were never given the chance? Or those who want to believe but remain unconvinced? This kind of selective justice doesn’t make sense for a loving, powerful God who wants people to know Him.
@seanpierce9386 Once you believe in jesus that he is lord you are saved. The hour we first believed we were saved. Not how much we know that is the wisdom of man which is flawed and selfish. Love can only love one way perfectly. Once you say yes to Jesus you are saved forever. I do not judge you.
When Zeus was born from Rhea's womb, the moral rules existed in the kernel of Zeus. As a cell of Zeus, this universe also inherited the moral rules of Zeus.
I was thinking of the whale shark while watching this video. Because he was talking about the shark biting the girl and that made me think of how majestic and peaceful the whale shark is. Then I look down in the comment section and see your profile picture. It is very surreal!
@@jacywilson Thanks for reading. Strange things happen sometimes. The whale shark has a very narrow gullet and will not swallow food larger than 3 centimeters.
To forgive is a choice that only beings with FREE WILL can make... and FREE WILL is the power of free immortal souls who are free splits of the Holy Spirit... ...and because humans possess free aware immortal souls, so only humans can make a choice to forgive... animals have no aware souls let alone can make a choice, just slaves to natural laws beyond its control...
I'd say forgiveness is a power that comes from spirit into man. A reaction to an offense is more akin to anger or revenge.. The true test of power is forbearance, The true test of wisdom is understanding, The true test of Knowledge is mercy, The true test of spirit is forgiveness. The test of greatness is allowing others to believe you're wrong. If it's the Truth, it will defend itself.
I don't really get it, to me it's all about care and it's personal. I forgive and unforgive people all the time and never tell them. If I tell them or do something about it, I make it less.
So the problem of standing up for yourself is a separate problem in my opinion. If you treat forgiveness as an independent problem from managing relationship dynamics, then you do not have to deal with the counterfactual where it is necessary, justified, and proper, to forgive someone who has good reasons for not being able to repent: like addiction, or membership in different culture, or an upbringing without necessary privilege. I believe it is possible to forgive someone who does not repent by applying the same suspension of judgement that scientists are trained to do when they do not have sufficient evidence to support their inferences - it is both the cornerstone of standard research methodology, and forgiveness.
Forgiveness happens in many, many animals. Of course it's not unique to us... Almost all animals have complex emotions and a sizable portion of them have social groups with their own species. Religion needs to stop putting humans on a pedestal, we are not that special.
You are important because your immortal soul is a free split of the Holy Spirit... .. Animals are just one of the blessings that GOD provided to us for our survival while searching for the meaning of life to hopefully find faith in a loving GOD for our souls' salvation... so, have faith before it is too late, you won't regret it...
We also have evolutionary game theory, which is a logical framework that explains the development of social behaviours, including forgiveness. Can I prove that in individual instance of forgiveness isn’t a supernatural power that intervenes in someone’s brain? No. But nobody can prove that it was either. Can we prove that forgiveness can be completely explained in terms of evolutionary processes? Sure.
Guys brains doesnt knows how figure out absolutetly true about emocional in a brains. So It means he are showing rambling evidence about how brains make up emocional . This rambling neuroscience.
Animals demonstrate forgiveness, but they don't know that's what they are doing. To them, it's establishing a *specific period of time* between the negative event and the dismissal of that event. *Example:* If I do something wrong to one of my parrots, my parrot will observe me for a period of time to see if I will repeat that wrong. If I don't, ... _then all is good!_ However, a self-aware human knows the abstract nature of "forgiveness" and can personally choose to offer it or not. ... No specific time period is required in the process. I could only slightly wrong someone and never be forgiven for it no matter how much time is involved. I could also do something horribly wrong to someone and be forgiven for it immediately afterward.
@@sujok-acupuncture9246 *"How animals demonstrate forgiveness... ?"* ... I once accidentally knocked one of my parrots off of its perch while turning with a long piece of hardwood flooring. This was seen as an unwarranted attack by the parrot. Afterward, the parrot was skeptical of me for a period of time. Once a specific period of time elapsed to where it realized this was a one-off event, it was as if the event never happened, and we were back to our original bond. ... The parrot holds no grudges even though I did what I did.
*"How animals demonstrate forgiveness... ?"* ... I once accidentally knocked one of my parrots off of its perch while turning with a long piece of hardwood flooring. This was seen as an unwarranted attack by the parrot. Afterward, the parrot was skeptical of me for a period of time. Once a specific period of time elapsed to where it realized this was a one-off event, it was as if the event never happened, and we were back to our original bond. ... The parrot holds no grudges even though I did what I did.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC animals basically respond moment to moment, not with a backlog of emotions in their mind like humans may behave. We are kind to them, they return back the kindness. We are harsh, they are also harsh. The act of forgiveness requires the presence of both memory and a certain degree of consciousness which animals don't have much.
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Forgiveness is a gift that cannot be given indiscriminately : only to those willing to understand their wrong and own it are deserving of it.
I continue to be stunned by how ignorant most of your scholarly guests are concerning the topics of animal personhood, agency, emotional expression, self-awareness, etc. What makes it worse is the painfully obvious fact that they are basing their theories of mind, morality, and so forth on a set of assumptions about human exceptionalism that don't stand up to the latest empirical studies on animal cognition and behavior. They don't even seem to be able to recognize in their own pets what most pet owners know. Instead, they seem to be on a mission to save from irrelevance the received beliefs that underpin their own disciplines.
It's so transparent. Your guest is a theologian, and so no matter what he says about animals, he's going to bring it back to the theologian's core assumption that human beings are the only creatures who possess a sacred relationship with God. No amount of empirical study will ever end up supporting such a claim, and so in some sense, reality is the enemy to his whole project of theology. It is as though Einstein conceived of general relativity while holding tight to the received belief that there are only four elements in creation: earth, fire, water, and air. He never would have gotten anywhere by maintaining such an antiquated and empirically false perspective.
If there is a saving grace in this situation, it's that Professor Couenhoven and his colleagues are far from the worst offenders among your interviewees. At least he has an excuse--theology is fundamentally about belief vs. empirical observation. The real problem people are your world-renowned scientists, mathematicians, physicists, cosmologists, etc. They actually think that the contributions they are making toward understanding the true nature of the reality we inhabit are the reality itself... that the mathematics or physics or astrophysics or psychology that they are currently pursuing is how things really are.
As a group, your guests seem almost panicked by the notion that all their advances have not changed the fact that we live in and with mystery. Almost the entire mass of the universe is still unknown to us. Why then should we feel so secure in thinking we know what is going on, or not going on, inside the minds of animals? But to me, the greatest mystery of all is why such highly educated people remain nevertheless so resolutely unreflective about their unexamined biases and archaic beliefs. Figure that one out, and maybe you will at last get closer to truth.
A lot of words for nothing of substantive criticism other than "I don't like that he has theological and metaphysical commitments". What empirical studies can you show that disprove classical metaphysics?
@@joyfulmindstudio very insightful coment
1. why? ego identity...all humans have it. 2. brain wiring... in case of RLK, he approaches all questions strictly with linear, causal "logical" thinking which is his neurological mode of operandi. logic alone cannot answer the fundamental questions.
Forgiveness is not an act of altruism but a wise move to avoid escalations or future troubles. It can be for the good of both parties involved, offender and the bearer.
You know what else is unique to humans? Farming, car manufacturing, musical instruments, space flight, submarines, books, television, clothing, marriage, poetry, universities, baseball, paint, our ability to end life on earth, our duplicity, to go negative for a moment, etc. etc. We are to all other animals as the sun is to a grain of sand. A singular focus of many scientists seems to be to diminish the unique qualities of human beings. I think that leads to a general feeling that we are unworthy and deserve whatever comes our way. We are unique. We are valued and valuable. We are so much more than similarities between our brain structures and that of higher animals. We are maximized for good and ill. Most of the time, most people do or attempt to do the right thing for the right reasons.
You need help
If some animals are capable of ethical behaviours to some degree, wouldn’t you want to know?
@@MJ1 You need to take a politeness course. I’m rather surprised that someone of your diminished capacity is even watching these videos. They are intended, I presume to foster interesting and civil debate. Your response indicates to me that that you are capable of neither.
@@simonhibbs887 I don’t think there’s any doubt that some are. The most advanced of them haven’t built 100 storey skyscrapers or flown to the moon to my knowledge. We are orders of magnitude more intelligent, capable, evil, creative and destructive than any others living creatures that we know of. My only point. A simple statement of fact.
This conversation is oversimplifying. There are many variables. However, when you forgive someone, do so without telling them, unless they of their own volition ask for forgiveness. You will benefit from this whether they acknowledge their offense or if they never do.
Humans are animals … so, yeah; of course animals forgive …
An animal would forgive its offsprings rather than others for the same degree of offense towards it.
"Please remember what I told you to forget," Tavares sang. Forgiveness and forgetting go hand in hand. Amnesty has its roots in amnesia. Unlike fish, which forget after 3 seconds, humans can consciously choose to remove from their minds the hurts caused by others, if not entirely, by putting the pain in its proper perspective. The alternative is to let the search for justice turn into a grudge.
@@angel4everable That is why we need a Savior JESUS HAHAHAHAGA
You cannot forget anything beyond you know, so forgiveness is just like covering sun by something to say look there is no sun, but that doesn't solve the problem for long, understanding is the way out, how you recognize and remember something and how cam you alter your mind in reality, with the memory without the emotional link of any incidences, that is the one of the ultimacy of humanity to achieve
We complicate these things so much. Forgiveness goes all the way back to tribal societies. They had to work as a cohesive unit, or all could die. When Urg slapped your woman's backside at the party to get a laugh, you best forgive Urg before the next lion comes visiting. You're gonna need him... he's gonna need you.
He sneaks in the condition of "morality", without justification, into the definition of what kind of thing that can be forgiven.
Jesus Christ BATTERY 444 English Gematria
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Animals and other living beings don't need to forgive because they are always ZEN.
Humans may not be the only conscious entities that exist and because of this forgiveness may not be unique to humans
No the Aliens do too but only to themselves...
We cannot earn our forgiveness with God it is unconditionally given. It is only His love that can set me free. Don't believe you are a sinner? Shalom
But it is conditionally given: You have to be convinced of the claim. So rather than being tied to morality, salvation is dependent on where and when you live, and how gullible you are. I say this as an ex-Christian who was dragged from my faith by evidence and cannot simply choose to believe.
@@seanpierce9386 Morality salvation is self-righteousness. God is not self-righteous. He is righteousness. If you believed in the first place? Which I believed you did. You cannot lose the Holy Ghost. Or that would make God our father a liar. According to His Word HE WILL NEVER JUDGE TOU BECAUSE JESUS WAS JUDGED IN YOUR PLACE AMEN. THE CHURCH HAS GOT IT WRONG I DO NOT JUDGE YOU EVER. SPEAK TO ME I WILL NEVER FAIL YOU!
@@noelsetterington648 I appreciate the sentiment. But what of those who cannot believe because they were never given the chance? Or those who want to believe but remain unconvinced? This kind of selective justice doesn’t make sense for a loving, powerful God who wants people to know Him.
@seanpierce9386 Once you believe in jesus that he is lord you are saved. The hour we first believed we were saved. Not how much we know that is the wisdom of man which is flawed and selfish. Love can only love one way perfectly. Once you say yes to Jesus you are saved forever. I do not judge you.
When Zeus was born from Rhea's womb, the moral rules existed in the kernel of Zeus.
As a cell of Zeus, this universe also inherited the moral rules of Zeus.
Where did you learn this?
I was thinking of the whale shark while watching this video. Because he was talking about the shark biting the girl and that made me think of how majestic and peaceful the whale shark is. Then I look down in the comment section and see your profile picture. It is very surreal!
我在看这个视频时想到了鲸鲨。因为他在谈论鲨鱼咬女孩的事情，这让我想起了鲸鲨是多么雄伟和宁静。然后我低头查看评论部分，看到您的个人资料图片。这太超现实了！
@@jacywilson Thanks for reading. Strange things happen sometimes. The whale shark has a very narrow gullet and will not swallow food larger than 3 centimeters.
To forgive is a choice that only beings with FREE WILL can make... and FREE WILL is the power of free immortal souls who are free splits of the Holy Spirit...
...and because humans possess free aware immortal souls, so only humans can make a choice to forgive... animals have no aware souls let alone can make a choice, just slaves to natural laws beyond its control...
no, animals forgive.
Yeah they definitely can
Humans are animals … so, yeah; of course animals forgive …
@@kierenmoore3236 other animals also forgive
@@pyrrho314 I’m sure they do. My point was that we are all animals. Separating ourselves from other animals is largely anthropocentric bulls#*+.
@@pyrrho314 Moreover, other animals probably assign blame less than us (if at all), in the first place …
I'd say forgiveness is a power that comes from spirit into man. A reaction to an offense is more akin to anger or revenge..
The true test of power is forbearance,
The true test of wisdom is understanding,
The true test of Knowledge is mercy,
The true test of spirit is forgiveness.
The test of greatness is allowing others to believe you're wrong.
If it's the Truth, it will defend itself.
I don't really get it, to me it's all about care and it's personal. I forgive and unforgive people all the time and never tell them. If I tell them or do something about it, I make it less.
So the problem of standing up for yourself is a separate problem in my opinion. If you treat forgiveness as an independent problem from managing relationship dynamics, then you do not have to deal with the counterfactual where it is necessary, justified, and proper, to forgive someone who has good reasons for not being able to repent: like addiction, or membership in different culture, or an upbringing without necessary privilege. I believe it is possible to forgive someone who does not repent by applying the same suspension of judgement that scientists are trained to do when they do not have sufficient evidence to support their inferences - it is both the cornerstone of standard research methodology, and forgiveness.
Forgiveness happens in many, many animals. Of course it's not unique to us...
Almost all animals have complex emotions and a sizable portion of them have social groups with their own species.
Religion needs to stop putting humans on a pedestal, we are not that special.
You are important because your immortal soul is a free split of the Holy Spirit...
.. Animals are just one of the blessings that GOD provided to us for our survival while searching for the meaning of life to hopefully find faith in a loving GOD for our souls' salvation... so, have faith before it is too late, you won't regret it...
We also have evolutionary game theory, which is a logical framework that explains the development of social behaviours, including forgiveness.
Can I prove that in individual instance of forgiveness isn’t a supernatural power that intervenes in someone’s brain? No. But nobody can prove that it was either.
Can we prove that forgiveness can be completely explained in terms of evolutionary processes? Sure.
3:26 i always feel not being serious is one of the best conditions for forgiveness...
Seriousness is sickness - Osho.
Guys brains doesnt knows how figure out absolutetly true about emocional in a brains. So It means he are showing rambling evidence about how brains make up emocional . This rambling neuroscience.
You are assuming that humans actually practice it. I haven't seen it.
What a mess this was
Come on Rob 😅 it's over 😂😂
Animals demonstrate forgiveness, but they don't know that's what they are doing. To them, it's establishing a *specific period of time* between the negative event and the dismissal of that event. *Example:* If I do something wrong to one of my parrots, my parrot will observe me for a period of time to see if I will repeat that wrong. If I don't, ... _then all is good!_
However, a self-aware human knows the abstract nature of "forgiveness" and can personally choose to offer it or not. ... No specific time period is required in the process.
I could only slightly wrong someone and never be forgiven for it no matter how much time is involved. I could also do something horribly wrong to someone and be forgiven for it immediately afterward.
How animals demonstrate forgiveness... ?
@@sujok-acupuncture9246 *"How animals demonstrate forgiveness... ?"*
... I once accidentally knocked one of my parrots off of its perch while turning with a long piece of hardwood flooring. This was seen as an unwarranted attack by the parrot. Afterward, the parrot was skeptical of me for a period of time. Once a specific period of time elapsed to where it realized this was a one-off event, it was as if the event never happened, and we were back to our original bond. ... The parrot holds no grudges even though I did what I did.
How animals demonstrate forgiveness?
- parrot offer peace over war.
*"How animals demonstrate forgiveness... ?"*
... I once accidentally knocked one of my parrots off of its perch while turning with a long piece of hardwood flooring. This was seen as an unwarranted attack by the parrot. Afterward, the parrot was skeptical of me for a period of time. Once a specific period of time elapsed to where it realized this was a one-off event, it was as if the event never happened, and we were back to our original bond. ... The parrot holds no grudges even though I did what I did.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC animals basically respond moment to moment, not with a backlog of emotions in their mind like humans may behave. We are kind to them, they return back the kindness. We are harsh, they are also harsh. The act of forgiveness requires the presence of both memory and a certain degree of consciousness which animals don't have much.
3amnesty 😂😅😅
Forgiveness is religious bias they hurt you you ignore them otherwise they will continue doing it