I’m a 66 year-old transsexual woman I started HRT 25 years ago. It wasn’t until they added progesterone four years ago then I started getting breast growth so to me it really magnified the estrogen effect.
I've been curious myself but have had a surprisingly difficult time reading up on progesterone... How often do you take it? I sometimes hear something about "cycling" it, do you do that? And is it something you plan to keep on taking "forever" like HRT, or is it a temporary Rx until you feel you've got the results you wanted?
keep in mind when getting "breast augmentation" that the implants need to be swapped out after 15 years because the silicone and plastic will eventually degrade and can start shifting around. Also small breasts are perfectly valid and sough after :)
I’m a cisgender woman with flat chest and zero curves. Sometimes I wish I had a little more body😅 Anyway, sending love to all the beautiful transgender sisters out there❤❤Wishing you nothing but the best 🏳️⚧️ ❤
Even without breast growth effects, progesterone really helped my sleep patterns after starting HRT. To this day, if I stop taking progesterone, I start waking up randomly at night and suffer sporadic nightmares. I know it's anecdotal, but if anyone is having those effects, try adding it if you can.
@@CrabCrow Thanks for sharing. I’ve also read about the opposite occurring in some people. I suppose this just tells us there is a lot of individual variability. Have a lovely day.
I have definitely seen an increase in breast development since I started adding progesterone to my regime. Of course, it can be a coincidence . I am, however, a believer . I am the evidence ! 🙂 . I'm glad progesterone is helping you !
My take away is decrease T. Orchiectomy seems the most effective, otherwise, dutasteride, finesteride, spironolactone. I can barely afford any of these right now. Maybe I should have my balls "pressed" in the Judaica described method. Probably "primative," "barbaric, and painful. But cheaper than orchiectomy. My fantasy is magazine page type nude breasts with stage 4 development and aureolas as round as automobile headlights. That way I will always get turned on in the mirror every time I get out of the shower. @@ReikkiKyraJonsun
@@DrJamieTalks Mine was too, but I think I have a low T sensitivity since I was never muscular or very hairy and mustache much thinner than my dad's or granpa's.
For me it was similar but also a lot of DHT. Funnily enough I started mono E and my body immediately dropped my T levels to the low end of a cis woman somehow lol. It felt like magic and honestly E aside the drop in T has done wonders for my facial hair not growing back even remotely fast or going to a full beard. Its crazy how much its helped!
i can say that immediately after i added progesterone the growth plateau of breast growth was breached and i became much happier with development. Still developing to this day!
To add to the anecdotal evidence (sorry for that), I'm a 24 year old trans girl at 17 months estrogen & antiandrogen, and half a month on micronized oral progesterone. I have no specific evidence to know it was the progesterone and not just a late, coincidental spurt from estrogen, but my body responded to the progesterone almost immediately and my breasts have been bigger since. I believe it has had a very beneficial effect on me.
😮this really amazes me, how is fucking with your hormones good for your health? Sounds insane to me, specially since I have noticed the influence of hormones on both mood and serious health problems myself. Be careful with that, do not take your health for granted😢
@@saskiad.5734 The same way that taking medicine or vitamins can be healthy, or even eating food for that matter. Just because the body didn't produce something naturally doesn't mean it's unhealthy. Our bodies are pretty inefficient machines, that sometimes need an update.
@@RasmusVJS There's a big difference between helping your health with hormones you lack and changing them because you want to change your sex... I would think your body would release the necessary hormones by itself if you feel that you where born in the wrong body, but it may take longer. Change too quickly cannot be healthy! Better eat the foods that help with that and exercise
Thanks! Im taking Progesterone, started about a month ago. Endocrinologist agrees with you but said could give it a trial for 6 months! I use Estrodial patches (2 per week) and Spironolactone .I love the changes! I look forward to your videos, you become more beautiful every day!❤❤❤
@@jimjones7912 Thank you! 😊 Yes, most gender affirming prescribers will order progesterone for those who want it through an informed consent process. As I highlight in the presentation, there is a lot of positive anecdotal evidence that supports progesterone, but not a lot of good data.
I love this topic! ♥I added progesterone at 1 year in. At the time I was at Tanner stage 3. Soon after adding it my breast buds changed from smaller round ones to larger ovals. I've been at Tanner stage 5 after a year and a half into transition. I am not sure if or when I should stop taking progesterone. My HRT prescriber was not encouraging but didn't stop me from adding progesterone to my regimen. I can't say if it really was the factor that pushed me from stage 3 to 5 since it might have been coincidental to what would have happened anyways. I also had super low T-levels and didn't need to take a blocker.
@@madeline_alice Thanks for sharing your results. Sounds like your experience with progesterone has been positive. Did you notice any negative side effects from progesterone?
@@madeline_alice ty for the answer! i started hrt with 29 and i think when i was 5 months in i took a big break since i didnt want to exist anymore. i think it was like a 4 or 5 month break, when i went back on it with the progesterone then i also had the feeling they were developing a lot faster than back then without it. at the moment im 11 months in if you count the time from before i had the break, id say mine are at tanner stage 3 right now and ur comment gave me hope to get to stage 5 without surgery maybe 😭 ohh and i also never took a blocker before, taking spiro since 2 weeks now. wish you the best for the ongoing journey 🤗
I don't know that taking prog affected my breast growth much, but I will note that when I started taking estrogen I had some major issues with my sleep, and once I'd started taking prog, those went away. Anecdotally I've heard a few stories of weird dreams on prog, I haven't had any of those, although I do think potentially one of the issues from before I was on it was to do with the fact I'd just stopped dreaming entirely, so maybe that had something to do with it.
i'm gonna save this video so i know what makes a good presentation for my college classes. thank you for the very helpful information and wonderful presentation!
I’m 19 and have been trans since my sophomore year of high school and started hormones a little over two years ago when I was 17 and I developed very minor breast buds for the whole time up until the last 7 months. 7 months ago I started progesterone I take progesterone nightly and have no side effects UNLESS i miss a dose if I miss a dose I feel strange the next day in a way a can’t describe other than feeling like I’m on drugs and super spacey my breasts have not been the only thing progesterone has changed my hips have also gotten a lot wider and my stomach has toned down a lot I highly recommend progesterone it’s been the most helpful part of my transition
Thanks for another great video. And thanks for supporting the Trevor Project! I'm an older lady. I didn't see any measurable breast growth for the first 16 months, although there were noticeable changes in the skin, hair growth and nipple sensitivity. In July it finally kicked in and I've grown about an inch and a half. I figure I'll almost certainly want implants when the time comes. But for now, I'll let nature do its thing. I have another round of blood tests next week and then a video consult with my endo. So we're keeping on top of things. I've been on progesterone for about a month now. It's too early to tell if it's affecting anything. My weight seems to have hit another plateau, but at least I'm not putting it back on. And that's likely at least partly due to my recent diet. The big thing is that I'm starting to like how I look and feel better about my breasts. Take care and have a good week!
If you need T-blockers depends on the individual. I didn't take blockers and after some time the E suppressed the T nearly out of existence (I even had to reduce my E dose to increase my T levels). After 1 year I started P. In a few days I have my 3rd Estrogen anniversary and my boobs have a pretty nice size, I guess I was lucky. My breast growth was, counter to many other experiences, pretty slow and steady and I didn't have times of fast growth and breast pain. It was more like a constant little pain and most of the time I didn't even realize they were growing, if I didn't compare them to 6 months ago.
Im 34 and started E nearly a year ago and you scared me with the breast growth thing, but I started prog so thats good. Also as someone with clinical depression (bipolar type 2) I can tell you prog has only positively affected my mood.
A sample size of 23 is PAINFULLY small. The problem with progesterone is that the basic research has not yet been done. The problem with a LOT of trans-related medicine is that the basic research has not yet been done! All the research that's been done is "is this safe", which, great, but we really NEED research on "what helps most? What helps fastest?"
Anecdotally, I'm a 19 year old trans woman and I started hrt back in July, so four months ago. I actually started developing gynocomastia a few months before starting though in February, but only on my left side. Since starting, it seems like I've reached somewhere between tanner stage 3 and 4, so even being what would be considered "finished" with male puberty it's like my body was never made for testosterone (obviously lol) and watching your video and reading some of the comments kind of made me excited to start progesterone.
1 year hrt trans girl here with anecdotal evidence too. I’ve been a year into taking estrogen (first 3 months were sublingual, 3 daily 5mg) 20mg/ml per 10 days and 200mg prog daily. I wish there was more studies done on this kind of regiment (the kind without anti-androgens) cause for me i’m already at tanner stage 3 and it really feels like it’s going to go to 4, but that it’s slow cause of well, puberty is slow sometimes. We’ll see. The biggest thing for me was, i asked for even and steady growth so they don’t look weird as they grow out, and as far as that goes, they’ve been looking beautiful so far
I started estrogen when I was 59 years of age. I guess I'm lucky in that I achieved a bra cup size of DD. My paternal grandmother had enormous breasts, and my father had gynocemastia. John
I'm 34 and only just started HRT this year, about 6 months in now. Honestly every time I look into anything about breast growth, it just gets me feeling really pessimistic about my prospects. Having breasts in the future is something that's extremely important to me, but I absolutely don't want implants or surgery because in my opinion it just never looks natural and would just be a constant reminder of the body I was born with. I know that statistically my odds of achieving anything above an A cup is fairly slim, and it's just such a bummer grappling with that fact. I do know a couple tranwomen who've managed to grow larger breasts naturally but they certainly seem to be much rarer.
My Endocrinologist is constantly trying to persuade me to go off Progesterone... he says it might cause blood clots... I told him that I'll accept that risk. I'm 1yr on Spiro/Estradiol, and 8 months on Progesterone... have achieved stage 3. Since it will take approx 18 months to get into the operating theater (bottom surgery), that will be perfect timing to make a decision on augmentation...
Progesterone and blood clots? I have never heard of that. I do know 100% taking estrogen or testosterone via pills, is extreamy terrible. It does not metabolize in the kidney and liver very well. Injections are the safest way with estrogen. Testosterone as well, but you have to get a blood test to check blood thickness levels, to prevent a heart attack or stroke. Estrogen does NOT raise blood thickness.
@@Genevieve111 Sounds like you have it all planned out well. 🏳️⚧️🦋💕 My understanding is that the risk of clots is a lot lower on micronized progesterone. You may want to see what your endocrinologist says about that. 🙂
I am 24, and also from anecdotal evidence, after 6 months of estradiol and bicalutamide, I added progesterone, and my breasts really popped off 💪🏽 coming up on a year and I am at Tanner stage 4, hoping I can get some more but if not I'll just get em augmented 🗣🔥
Having just waded through various "side effects" and associated paper abstracts I could find, it does seem like e.g. increased cholesterol is with non-bioidentical progesterone, whereas bioidentical is the opposite and can HELP lipid levels. That's one issue with existing info, it tends to lump everything together.
@@kayla8402 Thanks for the comment. I think I mentioned this on another comment, but bioidentical progesterone is though to decrease all lipids including HDL, which you want to be higher.
I'm 68 and transgender. I was kinda stoked when my breasts started growing but then, it stopped. Meh... with the right bra I look fine as I'm of slim build. As I told a doctor who tried pushing me into getting implants, " A woman should not be judged by the size of her breasts. "
@@DrJamieTalks ... funny moment. I went to get a mammogram a couple of years ago. Because, you never know, right? The technician was perplexed as to why I had the breast tissue of a teenage girl. I never told her.
This was a very informative video! While I know everyone is different, I started transitioning at 28 and made it tanner stage 4 without progesterone and a year of HRT. Again, I know my case is unique to me, but further development can occur, assuming you have the right genetics and respond to the HRT well.
I got some growth from just estrogen and blockers, but I really started growing when I got on progesterone. I noticed that I got much better shape and definition closer to that of tanner stage 3. I'm less than 2 years in so I am still hopeful for more growth.
@@Cradle2dagrav Best wishes to you on your gender journey. Many of us plateau on our breast growth around year two to three. That’s why most providers will make girls wait at least this long on hormones and blockers before considering an augmentation procedure.
@DrJamieTalks I'm seriously wondering if I could be intersex. I have a number of interesting characteristics about me and estrogen has hit me so naturally that it's wild. Like, I have almost full D cups right now.
I wish I could take progesterone, but my one attempt to do so exacerbated my anxiety disorder and made me barely able to function for the 3 months I was taking it.
Thanks :) It's quite unnerving how much variation there is between people in how their bodies respond to which combinations of hormone levels (and how much contradicting anecdata is out there), combined with only being able to get the levels checked and discussed once every couple of months, and then the lab, the doctor, and the other people you talk to all use different units of measurement... I'm almost 4 months in, just E monotherapy for now (my T was very low anyway), and simultaneously happy that I'm getting sensitivity and some growth already, and confused because it doesn't seem to be following the Tanner stages - not a small peak lifting up the areola like in stage 2/3, but a wider "pillow" with almost the full diameter that I'd expect for stage 5.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As you describe, the effects of hormones have a lot of individual variability. It sounds like you've already seen a lot of positive changes. I'm curious how the next two years go for you. :-)
Hi Dr. Janie, May I also add a comment/question, as a cis woman? First off, welcome trans girls to cis girls boob struggles. Might not family genetics also play a part in breast development/size etc.? Not all cis women obviously have the same breast size. It personally took me forever for my breasts to barely fill a 34B bra, at 25 yrs.; something which caused me great emotional stress. After my children, they finally became more ample to where I was a 36B. But many cis girls/women are very small breasted; the reason for many of today’s women getting breast enhancement implants, my daughter among them, as she was terribly deficient in the memory status. Also, cis women’s breast can go up and down due to weight gain or loss. So how might genetics, weight fluctuations etc.., also play into all the hormone issue? Very interesting video.
Thanks for this comment. You are correct, genetics may play a role in overall size; however, for cis girls, regardless of their final breast size, they will likely have all of the ducts and tissues of a Tanner 5. Trans women who start hormones after puberty may only get to Tanner 3, which may affect the appearance, contour, as well as the size.
@@DrJamieTalks Well, I guess my point is, no trans girl should feel less than many cis women today, who have to have breast augmentation surgery. Oh - but one more question. Are trans girls at risk of breast cancer, as cis girls; especially concerning the hormones they are taking, and the effects?
Dang. Well... I was way too psychologically distressed to go about the process in a careful way. I actually freaked out about the anti-androgen component, and backed off to only taking estrogen for the first year. That's probably why I topped out at AA cups. I'm identifying as nonbinary now, though, so looking like a permanent teenager kinda fits my goal.
@@ChristianCatboy This part. And most cis women with larger breasts usually wish they were a bit smaller. I miss being able to wear pretty little lace bras from a department store instead of expensive miracles of modern engineering in beige cloth from a specialist shop. The shoulder, neck, and back pain associated with large breasts isn't great either. And when I don't wear a bra, they're visibly saggy. The women in my family who got the smaller breasts gene are very happy with their bodies. They can buy inexpensive and pretty bras, they don't have a whole lot of pain .. and they can run without needing to change to a sports bra first.
What timeframe are these studies done in. For myself at 45years old and starting later. I started estrogen at 43, them spironolactone at age 44 and I started progesterone just before my 45th birthday. I am at 10mg estrogen every 2 weeks intramuscularly, I feel as though 6 months on progesterone I have reached tanner stage 4 and possibly even 5 as they do have that natural round saggyness on the bottom. Of course, I am one example and I do boost hgh via intermittent fasting. My diet and supplements play a role as well. 2000 mg a day of Pueraria Mirifica, prenatal dha multivitamin, and a mostly keto diet with clean complex starch carbs. I am 34 chest and 38 bust technically a C cup but I prefer B cup bras. No surgery.
Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience. A lot of girls in the comments have mentioned the positive effects of progesterone. Intermittent fasting has a number of positive benefits as you note. I'm not familiar with Pueraria Mirifica.
I asked my doctor about what the research said about progesterone and he straight-up said "we don't know, we just know it causes changes in your transition. There's not enough research on how it affects cis women in the first place for us to properly apply it. You can try it and see what happens."
Hi Dr. Jamie, I added progesterone 6 months ago after being on estrodol for over a year, I would evaluate my progress as minimal. However, I do feel that my breasts are fuller and more rounded, so I'll take that as a win. Tanner 3 isn't a bad thing, hey, I was tanner 0. I'll never go outside without a shirt on to do my yard work ever again. Still holding my hopes up for tanner 4, I think I see some hints of 4. Thanks for your always informative videos, peace Sheila.
I know it won't just go on forever. I guess my question is whether there is a peak growth period, and if there is a general cuttoff timeframe when breast growth ends? For example, is this a valid statement, After year 2 of estrogen, you should not expect any additional significant breast growth? Any references to sources for this can help me dig into my questions deeper, too.
2-3 years on adequate androgen blockade and physiologic doses of estrogen are thought to lead to max breast growth. This is why most hospital systems such as Kaiser require at least two years of adequate treatment before a referral for breast augmentation.
this was so useful to me thank you! I just started looking into hormones and im very excited that stage 3 it about where most of us fall bc thats exactly what im looking to develop!
❤❤❤my mum was huge, am told you probably end up one cup size smaller than your parent. Is there truth to this? After two years of HRT, find this prospect somewhat daunting. Is no way already, that I will need breast augmentation. Am quite proud of my ' two girls ' Reikki & Kyra'- the twins.❤💐 🦄 🌈..at 70 years of age , have no regret. Never felt this good in my whole life
@@Genevieve111 no, I just use patches. The women in my family do have bigger boobs. Not huge, but what I would say are about ideal. I also feel my mother took DES while she was pregnant with me. When I started HRT it was as if the hormone my body had been missing since birth was now once again, a part of me. If this is true, I was born transgender. I didn’t find out that I was until later in life. I started HRT at age 80.
I had high T before I started HRT at 23, I've just taken estradiol and Spiro for 8 years and I'm a C cup with the contour. Other women have asked who did my breasts and it's just estradiol and Spiro. I'm not sure how I'd look with progesterone but I've never taken it and I still need a C cup. I wonder if it's epigenetic and hormones activated it. Regardless I'm at peace in my body like I never felt before HRT.
Is there not a distinction between progestins and bio-identical progesterone? I don't think it is accurate to utilize the SOC8's suggestion against *progestins* as an argument against progesterone itself. In the link to the SOC8, the passage following "Potential adverse effects of progestins include weight gain, depression, and lipid changes." is "Micronized progesterone may be better tolerated and may have a more favorable impact on the lipid profile than medroxyprogesterone (Fitzpatrick et al., 2000).
Micronized progesterone is another name for bioidentical progesterone. When gender affirming care providers prescribe progesterone it is the micronized formulation. That said, there is a lack of data when it comes to outcomes in transgender persons.
I'm one of the very lucky ones- I'm a natural DD (Mum was very busty). I never took progesterone. I wonder what made me so different? I started HRT in mid 50s.
I started hrt in my late 20th year and I assume I'm not post male puberty given I've not had my second gonad drop I'm hoping that means I started early enough! I'm on Spironolactone and estradiol and I'm budding at 4-5 months. It aches
I think it makes sense to try to maintain all sex hormones in the range you'd expect of a cisgender person of your age and other demographics. Also, a lot of us cis women experience significant breast growth early in our first pregnancy - has anyone examined the hormones involved in that, and assessed how they could be used to support trans women seeking more breast growth?
While the breast do enlarge during pregnancy, this change is to support milk production. Once the hormones return to normal levelsm the breasts will often become smaller and may appear "stretched-out" or "deflated". They may also sag or droop. Not sure this is what you would want...
@@DrJamieTalks Fair. I think of mine as being a bit saggy because of age, but they definitely got a whole lot bigger with pregnancy and they kept most of the extra size after weaning. I guess it would depend on the individual, and whether they want to look youthful and perky or a more mature matronly shape.
Either I have low T, but i have been doing almost 1 year HRT, and I feel like I reached stage 4 or 5 breast growth, and it feels like they could grow further. With Monotherapy, injectable estrogen. I suppose I got sorta lucky with my genetics then, idk.
I wonder if the studies are based on just taking it orally? Cause its apparently 10-20x more bio available taken rectally. And everyone i know that swears by takes it that way. With it only being about 1% bio available orally.
does having estrogen over the recommended maximum, have negative effects directly in regards to feminization, I am aware of other side effects like blood clotting.
@@DrJamieTalks ive been over the recommended levels and im definitely not satisfied with my feminization 25months hrt. Also I know you mentioned Growth Hormone. And you said you dont want excess GH because big hands big feet. Im assuming that GH is the same as HGH (Human Growth Hormone). I take creatine monohydrate which also boosts HGH. I would love as much information as you have on HGH and feminization.
I started HRT at the age of 60, but had the advantage of gynecomastia during puberty, so I had already reached Tanner stage 3 before starting HRT. After a few months on HRT stage 4 started and I am now at stage 5 and closing in on a D cup. The reason may be that immediately after starting HRT my testosterone level bottomed out, and has not been measurable since.
@@DrJamieTalks and do you know if there's any recent data to suggest a safe timeline to titrate up on the estradiol? Like after 3 months on a .1mg patch is it safe to go to 2 patches or would a 2 month titration be fine, or even 1 month? The data seems sparse.
Well, the goal is to get into the physiologic range. When I started estrogen, I was already blocked with lupron. I started on the 0.05 mg patch and went to 0.01 mg after about 4-6 weeks, and keep increasing it by 0.05 in that manner up to the max dose of 0.2 mg. I then checked my hormone levels (I also could have done this earlier) and found my estradiol was in the low 200s (right where I wanted it to be). I think my titration was fast, but my goal was clear--get into the physiologic range.
That's not so simple with the growth factors; estrogens desensitize tissues to them, much like androgens desensitize tissues to estrogens. For this reason, if you compare average growth factor (mostly IGF-1, as those are more stable) level between males and females, you will find that they are relatively higher in females. This may be the reason behind why bone density doesnt bounce back in transfeminine individuals who were for a long time on puberty blockers after estrogens are introduced, or at least not the same way as it does inbtransmasculine individuals after introducing testosterone. So it might actually be a good idea to test whether the levels of growth factors in transfeminine people on estrogen are age matched to their cis counterparts. And if they stay within the male norm, some growth factor secretagogue, like Egrifta, could be considered.
Personally I am currently just a bit over a year of HRT, and only recently have properly gotten my testosterone levels down. My areolas are still a smaller size than I’d like, but they’re already tanner stage 4 or 5 for me from what I can see. Breasts overall are still smaller than what I would like, but I’m really glad/kinda shocked it’s already reached this shape. Started at age 21 as well, is it perhaps I was still within an amount of IGF-1 and GH that was tapering off from puberty? As of yet I am still waiting on trying out progesterone, but likely early on next year I will bring it up with my physician since that will have been a longer period of suppressed testosterone Personal pro tip: work on improving your chest muscle! It gives a good base for breasts to stick out from
Thanks for the "pro tip." If you end up going on progesterone, tell us how it goes. As for the IGF-1 and GH, it's hard to say. Starting in early adulthood is better than late adulthood for sure. I've observed a lot of girls your age get great results.
I'm a 30 - 35 year old trans woman. I've been on HRT for 2,5 years but recently I've stopped, hoping that me and my partner could try and start a family. After that (or failing that after a year or so) I plan to go back on HRT. I wonder what effect pausing HRT for a year could have on my breast growth? I would say that I got to about tanner stage 3, so maybe I can't expect more growth anyway.
I understand that it may not be your area of expertise but I feel like there are probably dietary recommendations that are relevant here as well. (Just spitballing but like healthy fats probably help?)
Tissues are built on basic components: proteins, fats, etc. Intermittent fasting is thought to boost IGF and GH in a healthy way. I do 16:8 (16 hour fast;8 hour feeding period). This may help your boob growth hypothetically. :-)
I'm curious if even though progesterone doesn't cause development past tanner 3 it may cause changes to fat redistribution, shape, and size that makes the boobs look more appealing and matured even if, medically speaking, they're not all the way to tanner 5
I took Progesterone for about a year or so. I liked some of the effects, but none of the effects were anything I could confidently attribute to breast growth. I think my development is likely at 3, and I feel that they're small. I have had some people compliment them but I'm a little disappointed at how small they seem to me. Yet at the same time, I don't know if I want them to be very large either. Clearly, I have some mixed feelings on the subject. 😅
@@DrayseSchneider Haha! You sound like me. I’m also like a 3. Have got some positive comments, but not super satisfied. I may consider augmentation next years. Choices. Choices.
I ask my doctor about progesterone and she told me the same thing you said DrJamie. The only thing i can add is to reduse soreness, I use wild yam cream typically and i find it helps reduce pressure and nipple itch. 😊
My endocrinologist advised me to limit my caffeine intake, since that's the same advice given to cisgender women on estrogen HRT to reduce soreness. Turns out I'm already hypersensitive to caffeine, in that it only takes 1/3 as much to get me going in the morning, so cutting down on that shouldn't be a problem.
I did not know about the tanner stages. Thanks Jamie for elaborating on them. I think it important for trans women to see how their breast development goes before considering implants. In my case, after two years on HRT I am a high stage 3. I am fortunate that with a bra my bust looks pretty good. With a tight top, it is even better. My development has slowed, but I still am seeing some which is nice. I do not think I will have implants, though it may be more flattering. Who wants to go through more surgeries? I think about adding progesterone. My thoughts is to get off the spironolactone first. I expect to have a orchiectomy that will make that possible. Who wants to take more pills? I have heard a side effect of progesterone is it can help with anxiety and getting better sleep. Those are things I can use beyond the possible breast growth. But then again, how big a bust do I really want. I am lucky I can even think that way.
Sounds like you have a good plan. I'm also a "high stage 3." Not sure if I'll try progesterone. Implants are on my wish list. Keep us posted on your progress. :-)
@@DrJamieTalks I passed the pencil test on both sides of my breasts this morning. The pencil was held pretty firmly under each breast. That is the first time that happened on the first try. Life is good! ☺
Interesting video. As an amab non-binary person, is there anything I could do to limit this? I'm on a low dose of estrogen and not on anti-androgens yet, probably will after the 3 month mark since start of HRT. I want all the feminizing effects besides breast growth, so it seems that progesterone definitely isn't for me and if i do start an anti-androgen a low dose would be better?
Well I know some non-binary persons will try to get their doctors to prescribe medications like tamoxifin which prevents estrogen from exerting its effects on specific regions like the breasts. Here is a study for your reference. Do you want me to do a presentation on this topic?
What if someone is in a situation where developing breasts would put them in danger, how can you stop them while still taking E, and will they be able to develop breasts later when they are in a safer situation?
@DrJamieTalks i thought exactly about that! But see, there are also doctors in that country, and they, in their best majority, most probably, don't believe in silly things like non-cis gender & hrt, one would have to make up wild stories about where did them boobs come from. Alien experiment? "Just woke up and they were there! Help!" "Oh these aren't mine! I'm just taking care of them for a friend". Srsly tho, can they not develop/develop later?
I started Estradiol on the 4th of October. I haven’t noticed anything yet. Because I’m broke and getting help on the NHS rather than privately, it take a long time to get anything done, so I haven’t been able to start any anti-androgen yet. Can the breast cell apoptosis cause permanent problems with breast growth if I don’t get on an anti-androgen soon?
I'm not sure if the data is out on that. I would just like to say that I'm REALLY HAPPY you could start estradiol. That's a win. I hope they'll be able to start an anti-androgen for you soon!
Okay so if the decline of IGF-1 and GH levels are postulated to explain the poor growth rate of breast tissue in older individuals; be they Trans or Cis women. What can be done to temporarily increase those levels, either via a targeted application or a general application, to achieve fully maturated breasts? What would be the controls and targeted levels needed?
@@yueaeon8699 Outside of puberty, increasing IGF-1 and GH would have many possible negative effects. For example, excessive GH after puberty may result in acromegaly like effects.
Results are quite variable. At 19, you have a MUCH BETTER chance of good growth than say someone like me who didn’t start to transition until their 30s. There are no studies looking specifically at your age group compared to let’s say individuals starting a little earlier or a little later. That said, I’m excited for you, and I’d love to hear about your progress going forward. 🏳️⚧️💕
@@Blasulz1234 Do what makes sense for your personal embodiment goals. Most medications carry some risks and potential side effects. Some may be quite rare. My understanding is that progesterone can cause dry eyes and thus blurry vision. There may be other effects that I’m unaware of.
So I've heard certain types of fasting (intermittent? Longer?) can help the body recycle old cells and promote positive effects of producing human growth hormone. So could incorporating fasting while transitioning lead to greater satisfaction with one's transition? Does the type of fasting have more/less effect: intermittent vs longer fasts?
@@MaskedImposter This is a good question without a great answer. Intermittent fasting has been shown to have myriad benefits to cellular metabolism. Cells are more efficient, healthier, age slower. How this might impact transition is unknown. As someone who tries to do intermittent fasting, I think the physical and metabolic benefits alone are worth giving it a try.
Thanks for the quick response! 😊 And I can appreciate the "tries" to do intermittent fasting haha. I do my best as well. I've been doing fairly good with it, but I have the occasional slip up! 😅
After 2 years on hrt started prog. My boobs halted in tanner 3 and were tubular and not that great. Prog in weeks filled them out made them a little bigger but mostly gave them a much more full and pretty ans nice shape.
Still watching, so maybe you address this, but wanted to ask before I forgot. I've heard people say that they thought progesterone aided their breast growth, but when they went off prog, they realized most of the growth or at least a lot of it was temporary and only stayed when they were on prog. I'm just curious if the growth is temp/semi-permanent (as long as you stay on prog) or permanent (even after going off prog)
Others here may be better able to answer your question. I’ve not been on progesterone, but my understanding is that the effect are permanent if they occur.
I swear by several small breast massages throughout the day especially as soon as you hit tanner 2. In a non sexual way it's just very very relaxing and helps relax me when I'm stressed and I think It definitely ehlps. I'm at i'd say a tanner 4.5 at 3 years 2 months. 400mg progesterone orally for 1 year 3 months. . My doctor swears by waiting for about 2 years and somewhere between tanner 3 and 4 before starting and I think that was a good idea for me honestly. If my breasts were on a smaller sternum they would definitely be true D's. Ik genetics and whatever but even in the past 3 months starting around the 3 year mark I've noticed even more growth. I think breast growth is such a long game that if you truly desire possible natural breats you like then I'd reccommend waiting about 8 years. This is of course going to vary with dysphoria and how much of a prirority it is to some people. Started at 30 btw.
here we cant get progesterone outside of the black market because the gender clinics do not recognize its effects on any level and no GP wants to prescribe it, or any other hormone therapy unless it is a cis woman using it as a contraceptive.
Sending you all the digital support, love, affirmation, validation, and heart I can spare. I've often reflected what it must be like for transgender people in your country. I truly hope someday you'll be able to go somewhere safe where your identity is not only tolerated but celebrated, and you can get access to the medical interventions that will support you in being the best version of yourself. Love. Respect.
I heard the progesterone tests in 2023 were low dose, orally administered and on a small group so its not 100% trust worthy, Im 31 and 11 months in with prog and I feel like Im entering tanner 4 with DD cups so although its too early to fully raise my hand and shout it works but Im definitely happier then my other friends at the same stage without prog.
I’m really happy you’ve had good results. You’re right, the data is just not so good on progesterone. That said, there’s a lot of people like you here that are telling me it was helpful. And DD. Dang! Jelly
I guess I've been lucky! I've not touched progesterone and I've achieved B/C size cups and I'm pretty sure I reached Tanner 5. There was certainly enough there for a mammogram earlier this year! I guess I'm also lucky in that I don't want anything bigger than that and I could do without any more weight gain (I'm slightly overweight right now though not significantly and I don't think it's affecting my health); also at the time I was with them, the Welsh gender service didn't do progesterone aside from trials.
@@robynrox Thanks for sharing. I think it’s very happy to know what services are available in other parts of the world. Glad to hear your boob growth has been optimal. 🥰
It's been 1 year and few days since i started HRT at age 22. Already had upper level of progesterone before starting compares to other 'males". My doc started my HRT with only oestrogen+ progesterone, and my testosterone levels just get lowers after that. I have a Europeen 80B, and i'm still waiting patiently to see where i can get. I'll udpate if some people are interested.
I just want to say that this comment section is making me so happy 😭❤️❤️ Wishing all the girlies here much success in their transitions ❤️🎉🎉🎉 Trans rights are human rights! 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
In 2014 before I started HRT I tried a product claiming to promote breast growth. I didn't expect it to work but tried it anyway. Much to my surprise it worked quite well. I went from practically no breasts to nearly a C cup in 8 months. Guess I lucked out. Total cost for a 9 month sublime bust supply was about $270.00. It also helped a female friend of mine.
@@Aurora146 I replied twice but it may require Dr Jamie's approval to be seen. Do a search for sublime bust serum. It's made by cheeky physique and yes it did work for my female friend.
@@Aurora146 I'm working around the awe tow may did sense or ship. Do a search for sublime bust serum. It's made by cheeky physique and yes it did work for my female friend.
I've been having difficulty because my doctor is good, but I am rural so my appointments are months apart (over worked, understaffed hospital and no alternatives)- so testing and medication adjustment has been agonizingly slow. I've been on HRT for two years, but I have not made two years worth of progress due to this crawl. I'm really starting to feel the drag. The relevance is- I hope this is not permanently impeding my breast growth.
Yikes. It's hard to say. Are you close to the goal ranges for T and E? If not, the next conversation might focus on what changes need to be made to get you there.
@@DrJamieTalks The plot thickened since this comment... Your video got me concerned so I went and talked to some friends of mine in the trans community. My trans friends found out I was prescribed 400mg of spiro a day. They promptly all freaked out immediately and begged me to stop right now. One remarked "girl, how do you have a liver left?" I also brought up how this entire time I have not once been shown my hormone levels, and both times a blood test has been ordered, and I have gone to let them vampire me, the lab has not returned hormone results. Only standard blood test stuff. Unfortunately I am broke, and have no car, and this is a VERY rural area. You also cannot simply call your doctor, like most of America these days, you are gate kept by the front desk and setting appointments. Their website portal goes unanswered and when you bring it up in person everybody will just say, "better to just make an appointment". Problem is, appointments go months between and staff is constantly turning over. Medicaid is also about to be devastated next year so I am not even sure I will continue having THIS option... I'm scared, like most of us, now.
Just a small question, IGF AND GH levels diminish gradually after puberty. My question is how gradually? I’m freshly 21 and started my transition two months after the fact; so I’m wondering about how steep the curve is in relation to my own body.
Congrats on starting your transition! 😊 21 is so young! I’m so excited for you! I’m not sure what you IGF and GH values are but I can tell you for certain they are better than mine. 🙂 May all the transition goals to which you aspire be realized.
You mentioned that obtaining proper hormone levels is essential, my clinician through planned parenthood doesn't monitor, test, or feel discussing hormone levels is necessary for treatment. I have been getting private testing done so that I can better monitor my hormone levels, currently my estradiol level is 172 pg/mL and my testosterone levels are 45 ng/dL. I am on sublingual monotherapy and the clinician won't increase my dose any further. Should I ask for an anti-androgen or insist more heavily that I switch to injections or are those acceptable ranges?
I think, it's too low estrogen levels. I'm personally on injections, with really high estrogen, it's easy to achieve high levels with injections, without health risks. I'm 1.5 months on HRT and get stage 1.5
For transgender women, the Endocrine Society guidelines define the target range of estradiol as 100-200 pg/mL (367-734 pmol/L), and testosterone and 30-100 ng/dL. Per these values you are right on target. 🎯
Bit spooky as I started at 24, been on Een monotherapy for 10 months. I'm still seeing some growth, albeit it's not as rapid as that initial few months. I've got prog on the way already but I had a couple questions: 1) I may have missed it but I don't think it was addressed, is adding the IGF independent of growth hormone a viable route worth exploring? Is there any research on that specifically if it would be safe and without potentially undesirable development? 2) Have there been any other findings as to potentially furthering growth?
You don’t want to add IGF and growth hormone as the increase in growth hormone specifically would cause drug induced acromegaly. There is just no good science out there to support additional medication interventions beyond those in the guidelines.
Is there any research on individuals who went on estrogen based HRT when they had partial puberty? Preferably without blockers as that happened to me, but with blockers would be nice to read over.
I would recommend talking to your hormone provider about it. I'm not sure there is any data out there that says adding progesterone at a specific time leads to better feminizing effects.
Hi, thank you for the video. I started HRT at around 17 however I was for most of the time underweight. I’m almost19 now, and currently underweight but less than before. Could this have had negative effect on breast growth?
I think it makes sense that if you are underweight, you would have small breasts in general. How that might effect the actual architecture of the breasts, I'm not really sure, but any kind of growth needs adequate nutrition. :-) Are you trying to gain some weight?
Thank you for the explanation. The topic doesn't apply to me, but I always want to know/understand more of the biochemistry involved. And I can't resist noting that when you said we were going to be talking about boobs, I thought "Are we still on JD Vance?"
Y’all should look up what progesterone is used for in the 28 day period cycle. Then you’ll understand why it’s so key for breast growth. I’m a cis female and Im trying to make an effort to understand my natural body better and actually appreciate it since I grew up in a community that thinks periods are gross lol progesterone is key for so many cool things.
Started on the girl juice at 47. Not sure if I'm at Tanner 3 or 4, but I've been on prog for a while. The weight gain is real, lol. Actually thinking about pausing my prog to see what happens - I could stand to lose some weight. 😂
Thankyou. I have just started a few weeks ago. I have one breast a C cup, and the other a B cup. I have had gynecomastia since being on heart medication years ago. I'm hoping its a head start to something bigger. Can you please tell me how pre existing Gynecomastia ties in with your thorough research. Thanks and best wishes.
So, gynecomastia is often related to hormone imbalances. It is an increase in breast duct tissue, not just fat which would be pseudo-gynecomastia. I’m not sure whether the existence of gynecomastia would help or diminish overall breast growth on HRT.
@@DrJamieTalks First, thankyou so much for responding. Interesting you saying that it may diminish the effects. I had not considered that. Hope some student does a thesis on it one day. Wouldn't that be weird. Very best wishes..
If for any reason a trans woman is unable or don't want to take hormones would she be able to get breast surgery ? Because as a trans woman it scares me should the government be able to one day ban hrt and having to stop hormone therapy and dieing do to lack of hormones is why I'm scared of starting hormones or having srs I've read that for vfs and ffs hormones are not required . Would I have to have letters for vfs and ffs ?
Per WPATH guidelines, to qualify for surgery a person needs a diagnosis of gender incongruence or dysphoria and usually 6 months or more of hormones. If a person has a particular medical reason for not being on hormones, then some providers may still write a letter supporting surgery if it may significantly improve dysphoria.
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I’m a 66 year-old transsexual woman I started HRT 25 years ago. It wasn’t until they added progesterone four years ago then I started getting breast growth so to me it really magnified the estrogen effect.
Great! Thanks for sharing! I've know others who feel like progesterone made a positive impact on their breast growth.
Same age and just started 3 weeks ago. Good luck with your journey
@ You Too 🏳️⚧️💕🦋
Here where I live, we don't have the option of getting progesterone....
I've been curious myself but have had a surprisingly difficult time reading up on progesterone... How often do you take it? I sometimes hear something about "cycling" it, do you do that? And is it something you plan to keep on taking "forever" like HRT, or is it a temporary Rx until you feel you've got the results you wanted?
keep in mind when getting "breast augmentation" that the implants need to be swapped out after 15 years because the silicone and plastic will eventually degrade and can start shifting around.
Also small breasts are perfectly valid and sough after :)
Yes, small breast are 100% valid! Do whatever fits your embodiment goals.
I’m a cisgender woman with flat chest and zero curves. Sometimes I wish I had a little more body😅 Anyway, sending love to all the beautiful transgender sisters out there❤❤Wishing you nothing but the best 🏳️⚧️ ❤
Thanks for your support and love!
thank u for ur support❤
Even without breast growth effects, progesterone really helped my sleep patterns after starting HRT. To this day, if I stop taking progesterone, I start waking up randomly at night and suffer sporadic nightmares. I know it's anecdotal, but if anyone is having those effects, try adding it if you can.
❤❤❤ thank you
❤❤❤ things should improve now I have had my Orchidectomy
@@CrabCrow Thanks for sharing. I’ve also read about the opposite occurring in some people. I suppose this just tells us there is a lot of individual variability. Have a lovely day.
I have definitely seen an increase in breast development since I started adding progesterone to my regime. Of course, it can be a coincidence . I am, however, a believer . I am the evidence ! 🙂 . I'm glad progesterone is helping you !
My take away is decrease T. Orchiectomy seems the most effective, otherwise, dutasteride, finesteride, spironolactone. I can barely afford any of these right now. Maybe I should have my balls "pressed" in the Judaica described method. Probably "primative," "barbaric, and painful. But cheaper than orchiectomy. My fantasy is magazine page type nude breasts with stage 4 development and aureolas as round as automobile headlights. That way I will always get turned on in the mirror every time I get out of the shower. @@ReikkiKyraJonsun
that's awesome. All my life I was "plagued" with low testosterone, now it's my money maker.
My T was over 950 at baseline. Basically, this means I was a werewolf prior to transition! Haha!
@DrJamieTalks I sneezed and I was below 1 lfmao, what a manly man I used to be
@@DrJamieTalks Mine was too, but I think I have a low T sensitivity since I was never muscular or very hairy and mustache much thinner than my dad's or granpa's.
For me it was similar but also a lot of DHT. Funnily enough I started mono E and my body immediately dropped my T levels to the low end of a cis woman somehow lol. It felt like magic and honestly E aside the drop in T has done wonders for my facial hair not growing back even remotely fast or going to a full beard. Its crazy how much its helped!
The worst part of low T is that you're always in low energy.
i can say that immediately after i added progesterone the growth plateau of breast growth was breached and i became much happier with development. Still developing to this day!
Thanks for sharing! Glad you had good results!
To add to the anecdotal evidence (sorry for that), I'm a 24 year old trans girl at 17 months estrogen & antiandrogen, and half a month on micronized oral progesterone. I have no specific evidence to know it was the progesterone and not just a late, coincidental spurt from estrogen, but my body responded to the progesterone almost immediately and my breasts have been bigger since. I believe it has had a very beneficial effect on me.
Thank you for sharing. I’m very to happy to hear about your positive results. 😊🏳️⚧️💕
😮this really amazes me, how is fucking with your hormones good for your health? Sounds insane to me, specially since I have noticed the influence of hormones on both mood and serious health problems myself. Be careful with that, do not take your health for granted😢
@@saskiad.5734 The same way that taking medicine or vitamins can be healthy, or even eating food for that matter. Just because the body didn't produce something naturally doesn't mean it's unhealthy. Our bodies are pretty inefficient machines, that sometimes need an update.
@@RasmusVJS Right? Cancer is natural too...
@@RasmusVJS There's a big difference between helping your health with hormones you lack and changing them because you want to change your sex... I would think your body would release the necessary hormones by itself if you feel that you where born in the wrong body, but it may take longer. Change too quickly cannot be healthy! Better eat the foods that help with that and exercise
Thanks! Im taking Progesterone, started about a month ago. Endocrinologist agrees with you but said could give it a trial for 6 months! I use Estrodial patches (2 per week) and Spironolactone .I love the changes! I look forward to your videos, you become more beautiful every day!❤❤❤
@@jimjones7912 Thank you! 😊 Yes, most gender affirming prescribers will order progesterone for those who want it through an informed consent process. As I highlight in the presentation, there is a lot of positive anecdotal evidence that supports progesterone, but not a lot of good data.
I love this topic! ♥I added progesterone at 1 year in. At the time I was at Tanner stage 3. Soon after adding it my breast buds changed from smaller round ones to larger ovals. I've been at Tanner stage 5 after a year and a half into transition. I am not sure if or when I should stop taking progesterone. My HRT prescriber was not encouraging but didn't stop me from adding progesterone to my regimen. I can't say if it really was the factor that pushed me from stage 3 to 5 since it might have been coincidental to what would have happened anyways. I also had super low T-levels and didn't need to take a blocker.
@@madeline_alice Thanks for sharing your results. Sounds like your experience with progesterone has been positive. Did you notice any negative side effects from progesterone?
how old were you when you started if i may ask?
@@DrJamieTalks i developed itchy skin. am hoping that when i reduce my medications now that i have had my orchiectomy that this will go away. 🤞
@@eoXXoe i was 51 when i started, so i was surprised by my results. i had been led to believe that the later you start the lesser the effects.
@@madeline_alice ty for the answer! i started hrt with 29 and i think when i was 5 months in i took a big break since i didnt want to exist anymore. i think it was like a 4 or 5 month break, when i went back on it with the progesterone then i also had the feeling they were developing a lot faster than back then without it.
at the moment im 11 months in if you count the time from before i had the break, id say mine are at tanner stage 3 right now and ur comment gave me hope to get to stage 5 without surgery maybe 😭 ohh and i also never took a blocker before, taking spiro since 2 weeks now.
wish you the best for the ongoing journey 🤗
I don't know that taking prog affected my breast growth much, but I will note that when I started taking estrogen I had some major issues with my sleep, and once I'd started taking prog, those went away. Anecdotally I've heard a few stories of weird dreams on prog, I haven't had any of those, although I do think potentially one of the issues from before I was on it was to do with the fact I'd just stopped dreaming entirely, so maybe that had something to do with it.
@@SirJonathonDanielGregorySrVthe Thanks for sharing your personal experience. Another commenter mentioned that progesterone also helped their sleep.
progesterone has been a huge help in mood, sleep and brest growth for me!
Good to hear!
i'm gonna save this video so i know what makes a good presentation for my college classes. thank you for the very helpful information and wonderful presentation!
Thanks!!! Glad it was helpful!
I’m 19 and have been trans since my sophomore year of high school and started hormones a little over two years ago when I was 17 and I developed very minor breast buds for the whole time up until the last 7 months. 7 months ago I started progesterone I take progesterone nightly and have no side effects UNLESS i miss a dose if I miss a dose I feel strange the next day in a way a can’t describe other than feeling like I’m on drugs and super spacey my breasts have not been the only thing progesterone has changed my hips have also gotten a lot wider and my stomach has toned down a lot I highly recommend progesterone it’s been the most helpful part of my transition
Thanks for sharing your experience with progesterone. I’m sure some of the viewers here will find this information helpful. 🏳️⚧️🦋😊💕
@ I hope so it’s hard to find real info online for a lot of these topics and I thank people like you for making these things known
That happened with me as well
that's normal you started only 2 years ago
@@samanthaplaysmusic Do you have a Boyfriend?
Thanks for another great video. And thanks for supporting the Trevor Project!
I'm an older lady. I didn't see any measurable breast growth for the first 16 months, although there were noticeable changes in the skin, hair growth and nipple sensitivity. In July it finally kicked in and I've grown about an inch and a half. I figure I'll almost certainly want implants when the time comes. But for now, I'll let nature do its thing.
I have another round of blood tests next week and then a video consult with my endo. So we're keeping on top of things.
I've been on progesterone for about a month now. It's too early to tell if it's affecting anything.
My weight seems to have hit another plateau, but at least I'm not putting it back on. And that's likely at least partly due to my recent diet.
The big thing is that I'm starting to like how I look and feel better about my breasts.
Take care and have a good week!
Glad things are going well for you. I've got very nicely proportioned Tanner 3 breasts. I will consider breast augmentation next year.
If you need T-blockers depends on the individual. I didn't take blockers and after some time the E suppressed the T nearly out of existence (I even had to reduce my E dose to increase my T levels). After 1 year I started P. In a few days I have my 3rd Estrogen anniversary and my boobs have a pretty nice size, I guess I was lucky. My breast growth was, counter to many other experiences, pretty slow and steady and I didn't have times of fast growth and breast pain. It was more like a constant little pain and most of the time I didn't even realize they were growing, if I didn't compare them to 6 months ago.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you've had such a positive response to hormones. :-)
Im 34 and started E nearly a year ago and you scared me with the breast growth thing, but I started prog so thats good. Also as someone with clinical depression (bipolar type 2) I can tell you prog has only positively affected my mood.
I'm happy to hear it has been positive for you!
A sample size of 23 is PAINFULLY small.
The problem with progesterone is that the basic research has not yet been done. The problem with a LOT of trans-related medicine is that the basic research has not yet been done! All the research that's been done is "is this safe", which, great, but we really NEED research on "what helps most? What helps fastest?"
Thanks for your comment. I agree. Once we establish what is "safe" we should then look at what is helpful.
Anecdotally, I'm a 19 year old trans woman and I started hrt back in July, so four months ago. I actually started developing gynocomastia a few months before starting though in February, but only on my left side. Since starting, it seems like I've reached somewhere between tanner stage 3 and 4, so even being what would be considered "finished" with male puberty it's like my body was never made for testosterone (obviously lol) and watching your video and reading some of the comments kind of made me excited to start progesterone.
Talk to your prescriber and may the growth be with you! 🥰🏳️⚧️💕
1 year hrt trans girl here with anecdotal evidence too. I’ve been a year into taking estrogen (first 3 months were sublingual, 3 daily 5mg) 20mg/ml per 10 days and 200mg prog daily. I wish there was more studies done on this kind of regiment (the kind without anti-androgens) cause for me i’m already at tanner stage 3 and it really feels like it’s going to go to 4, but that it’s slow cause of well, puberty is slow sometimes. We’ll see. The biggest thing for me was, i asked for even and steady growth so they don’t look weird as they grow out, and as far as that goes, they’ve been looking beautiful so far
Happy you're getting some positive results. I'm not aware of any studies that look at estrogen only regimens and breast growth.
I started estrogen when I was 59 years of age. I guess I'm lucky in that I achieved a bra cup size of DD. My paternal grandmother had enormous breasts, and my father had gynocemastia. John
Sounds like genetics worked to your benefit!
I'm 34 and only just started HRT this year, about 6 months in now. Honestly every time I look into anything about breast growth, it just gets me feeling really pessimistic about my prospects. Having breasts in the future is something that's extremely important to me, but I absolutely don't want implants or surgery because in my opinion it just never looks natural and would just be a constant reminder of the body I was born with. I know that statistically my odds of achieving anything above an A cup is fairly slim, and it's just such a bummer grappling with that fact. I do know a couple tranwomen who've managed to grow larger breasts naturally but they certainly seem to be much rarer.
I hope your results exceed your expectations. 6 months is still early. 💕 🙂
My Endocrinologist is constantly trying to persuade me to go off Progesterone... he says it might cause blood clots... I told him that I'll accept that risk.
I'm 1yr on Spiro/Estradiol, and 8 months on Progesterone... have achieved stage 3. Since it will take approx 18 months to get into the operating theater (bottom surgery), that will be perfect timing to make a decision on augmentation...
Progesterone and blood clots? I have never heard of that. I do know 100% taking estrogen or testosterone via pills, is extreamy terrible. It does not metabolize in the kidney and liver very well. Injections are the safest way with estrogen. Testosterone as well, but you have to get a blood test to check blood thickness levels, to prevent a heart attack or stroke. Estrogen does NOT raise blood thickness.
@@Genevieve111 Sounds like you have it all planned out well. 🏳️⚧️🦋💕 My understanding is that the risk of clots is a lot lower on micronized progesterone. You may want to see what your endocrinologist says about that. 🙂
@@DrJamieTalks Absolutely... will inquire. ❤️
I am 24, and also from anecdotal evidence, after 6 months of estradiol and bicalutamide, I added progesterone, and my breasts really popped off 💪🏽 coming up on a year and I am at Tanner stage 4, hoping I can get some more but if not I'll just get em augmented 🗣🔥
Well, your results sound pretty good! Congrats! 💕
i fully appreciate the lessons you teach here.
@@janistransbian Thank You ☺️ I appreciate your viewership.
Having just waded through various "side effects" and associated paper abstracts I could find, it does seem like e.g. increased cholesterol is with non-bioidentical progesterone, whereas bioidentical is the opposite and can HELP lipid levels. That's one issue with existing info, it tends to lump everything together.
@@kayla8402 Thanks for the comment. I think I mentioned this on another comment, but bioidentical progesterone is though to decrease all lipids including HDL, which you want to be higher.
I'm 68 and transgender. I was kinda stoked when my breasts started growing but then, it stopped. Meh... with the right bra I look fine as I'm of slim build. As I told a doctor who tried pushing me into getting implants, " A woman should not be judged by the size of her breasts. "
Be yourself! I support you!
@@DrJamieTalks ... funny moment. I went to get a mammogram a couple of years ago. Because, you never know, right? The technician was perplexed as to why I had the breast tissue of a teenage girl. I never told her.
@@louisavondart9178 None of the tech's business. 🙂
@@DrJamieTalks ..yes, but it was amusing to see her puzzled expression.
This was a very informative video! While I know everyone is different, I started transitioning at 28 and made it tanner stage 4 without progesterone and a year of HRT. Again, I know my case is unique to me, but further development can occur, assuming you have the right genetics and respond to the HRT well.
Wow! Great results. I'm happy for you.
I got some growth from just estrogen and blockers, but I really started growing when I got on progesterone. I noticed that I got much better shape and definition closer to that of tanner stage 3. I'm less than 2 years in so I am still hopeful for more growth.
@@Cradle2dagrav Best wishes to you on your gender journey. Many of us plateau on our breast growth around year two to three. That’s why most providers will make girls wait at least this long on hormones and blockers before considering an augmentation procedure.
@DrJamieTalks I'm seriously wondering if I could be intersex. I have a number of interesting characteristics about me and estrogen has hit me so naturally that it's wild. Like, I have almost full D cups right now.
I wish I could take progesterone, but my one attempt to do so exacerbated my anxiety disorder and made me barely able to function for the 3 months I was taking it.
Sorry to hear that. Some people can't tolerate progesterone.
Thanks :) It's quite unnerving how much variation there is between people in how their bodies respond to which combinations of hormone levels (and how much contradicting anecdata is out there), combined with only being able to get the levels checked and discussed once every couple of months, and then the lab, the doctor, and the other people you talk to all use different units of measurement...
I'm almost 4 months in, just E monotherapy for now (my T was very low anyway), and simultaneously happy that I'm getting sensitivity and some growth already, and confused because it doesn't seem to be following the Tanner stages - not a small peak lifting up the areola like in stage 2/3, but a wider "pillow" with almost the full diameter that I'd expect for stage 5.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As you describe, the effects of hormones have a lot of individual variability. It sounds like you've already seen a lot of positive changes. I'm curious how the next two years go for you. :-)
Hi Dr. Janie, May I also add a comment/question, as a cis woman? First off, welcome trans girls to cis girls boob struggles. Might not family genetics also play a part in breast development/size etc.? Not all cis women obviously have the same breast size. It personally took me forever for my breasts to barely fill a 34B bra, at 25 yrs.; something which caused me great emotional stress. After my children, they finally became more ample to where I was a 36B. But many cis girls/women are very small breasted; the reason for many of today’s women getting breast enhancement implants, my daughter among them, as she was terribly deficient in the memory status. Also, cis women’s breast can go up and down due to weight gain or loss. So how might genetics, weight fluctuations etc.., also play into all the hormone issue? Very interesting video.
@dorothyann100 good point I've heard that genetics plays a role
Thanks for this comment. You are correct, genetics may play a role in overall size; however, for cis girls, regardless of their final breast size, they will likely have all of the ducts and tissues of a Tanner 5. Trans women who start hormones after puberty may only get to Tanner 3, which may affect the appearance, contour, as well as the size.
@@DrJamieTalks Well, I guess my point is, no trans girl should feel less than many cis women today, who have to have breast augmentation surgery. Oh - but one more question. Are trans girls at risk of breast cancer, as cis girls; especially concerning the hormones they are taking, and the effects?
@ There is a risk of breast cancer albeit reduced. Thanks for making us feel better about our coconuts. ☺️
@ 😍
VERY good video. Felt like being in nursing school again. Thank you for this!
You are so welcome! I love school!
Dang. Well... I was way too psychologically distressed to go about the process in a careful way. I actually freaked out about the anti-androgen component, and backed off to only taking estrogen for the first year. That's probably why I topped out at AA cups. I'm identifying as nonbinary now, though, so looking like a permanent teenager kinda fits my goal.
As long as it fits your goal, that's all that matters. :-)
@@DrJamieTalks I wish I'd gotten up to B cups, but... it's okay. Even cis women can end up not being "well-endowed" that way.
@@ChristianCatboy This part. And most cis women with larger breasts usually wish they were a bit smaller. I miss being able to wear pretty little lace bras from a department store instead of expensive miracles of modern engineering in beige cloth from a specialist shop. The shoulder, neck, and back pain associated with large breasts isn't great either. And when I don't wear a bra, they're visibly saggy.
The women in my family who got the smaller breasts gene are very happy with their bodies. They can buy inexpensive and pretty bras, they don't have a whole lot of pain .. and they can run without needing to change to a sports bra first.
What timeframe are these studies done in. For myself at 45years old and starting later. I started estrogen at 43, them spironolactone at age 44 and I started progesterone just before my 45th birthday. I am at 10mg estrogen every 2 weeks intramuscularly, I feel as though 6 months on progesterone I have reached tanner stage 4 and possibly even 5 as they do have that natural round saggyness on the bottom. Of course, I am one example and I do boost hgh via intermittent fasting. My diet and supplements play a role as well. 2000 mg a day of Pueraria Mirifica, prenatal dha multivitamin, and a mostly keto diet with clean complex starch carbs. I am 34 chest and 38 bust technically a C cup but I prefer B cup bras. No surgery.
Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience. A lot of girls in the comments have mentioned the positive effects of progesterone. Intermittent fasting has a number of positive benefits as you note. I'm not familiar with Pueraria Mirifica.
I asked my doctor about what the research said about progesterone and he straight-up said "we don't know, we just know it causes changes in your transition. There's not enough research on how it affects cis women in the first place for us to properly apply it. You can try it and see what happens."
Yep. That about sums it up.
@@DrJamieTalks 🎶 we've never. Really. Studied. The female body 🎶
That's a very good song I recommend, too
I can’t speak for anyone else but I have definitely made it to tanner stage 4 with progesterone
That's great! Congrats!
Hi Dr. Jamie, I added progesterone 6 months ago after being on estrodol for over a year, I would evaluate my progress as minimal. However, I do feel that my breasts are fuller and more rounded, so I'll take that as a win. Tanner 3 isn't a bad thing, hey, I was tanner 0. I'll never go outside without a shirt on to do my yard work ever again. Still holding my hopes up for tanner 4, I think I see some hints of 4. Thanks for your always informative videos, peace Sheila.
You're welcome. Each one of our bodies is different. I'm a tanner 3 and like my boobs. :-)
I know it won't just go on forever. I guess my question is whether there is a peak growth period, and if there is a general cuttoff timeframe when breast growth ends? For example, is this a valid statement, After year 2 of estrogen, you should not expect any additional significant breast growth? Any references to sources for this can help me dig into my questions deeper, too.
2-3 years on adequate androgen blockade and physiologic doses of estrogen are thought to lead to max breast growth. This is why most hospital systems such as Kaiser require at least two years of adequate treatment before a referral for breast augmentation.
this was so useful to me thank you! I just started looking into hormones and im very excited that stage 3 it about where most of us fall bc thats exactly what im looking to develop!
Thanks! I am at Tanner 3 and pretty happy.
Hormones might get banned very soon,because of trump victory.Its gonna be very tough for 4 years or more.
This was very interesting. I've been on HRT for 37 months. I am at “Adult Contour” and they seem to be continuing to grow.
Wow! Congrats! You're results are above average! 🤩
Dave... are you taking Progesterone... ?
❤❤❤my mum was huge, am told you probably end up one cup size smaller than your parent. Is there truth to this? After two years of HRT, find this prospect somewhat daunting. Is no way already, that I will need breast augmentation. Am quite proud of my ' two girls ' Reikki & Kyra'- the twins.❤💐 🦄 🌈..at 70 years of age , have no regret. Never felt this good in my whole life
@@ReikkiKyraJonsun ❤️❤️❤️
@@Genevieve111 no, I just use patches. The women in my family do have bigger boobs. Not huge, but what I would say are about ideal. I also feel my mother took DES while she was pregnant with me. When I started HRT it was as if the hormone my body had been missing since birth was now once again, a part of me. If this is true, I was born transgender. I didn’t find out that I was until later in life. I started HRT at age 80.
I had high T before I started HRT at 23, I've just taken estradiol and Spiro for 8 years and I'm a C cup with the contour. Other women have asked who did my breasts and it's just estradiol and Spiro. I'm not sure how I'd look with progesterone but I've never taken it and I still need a C cup. I wonder if it's epigenetic and hormones activated it. Regardless I'm at peace in my body like I never felt before HRT.
Wow! You got great results. I do think genetics (and epigenetics) play a significant roll (roll being a pun for roll of the dice).
Is there not a distinction between progestins and bio-identical progesterone? I don't think it is accurate to utilize the SOC8's suggestion against *progestins* as an argument against progesterone itself. In the link to the SOC8, the passage following "Potential adverse effects of progestins include weight gain, depression, and lipid changes." is "Micronized progesterone may be better tolerated and may have a more favorable impact on the lipid profile than medroxyprogesterone (Fitzpatrick et al., 2000).
Micronized progesterone is another name for bioidentical progesterone. When gender affirming care providers prescribe progesterone it is the micronized formulation. That said, there is a lack of data when it comes to outcomes in transgender persons.
I'm one of the very lucky ones- I'm a natural DD (Mum was very busty). I never took progesterone. I wonder what made me so different? I started HRT in mid 50s.
Yay! Happy your genetics have given you a boost!
I started hrt in my late 20th year and I assume I'm not post male puberty given I've not had my second gonad drop
I'm hoping that means I started early enough! I'm on Spironolactone and estradiol and I'm budding at 4-5 months. It aches
I hope you get great results! I found the early changes, even the ache, to be euphoric! 🥰🏳️⚧️
I think it makes sense to try to maintain all sex hormones in the range you'd expect of a cisgender person of your age and other demographics. Also, a lot of us cis women experience significant breast growth early in our first pregnancy - has anyone examined the hormones involved in that, and assessed how they could be used to support trans women seeking more breast growth?
While the breast do enlarge during pregnancy, this change is to support milk production. Once the hormones return to normal levelsm the breasts will often become smaller and may appear "stretched-out" or "deflated". They may also sag or droop. Not sure this is what you would want...
@@DrJamieTalks Fair. I think of mine as being a bit saggy because of age, but they definitely got a whole lot bigger with pregnancy and they kept most of the extra size after weaning.
I guess it would depend on the individual, and whether they want to look youthful and perky or a more mature matronly shape.
Either I have low T, but i have been doing almost 1 year HRT, and I feel like I reached stage 4 or 5 breast growth, and it feels like they could grow further. With Monotherapy, injectable estrogen. I suppose I got sorta lucky with my genetics then, idk.
Wow! So happy to hear about your positive results!
I wonder if the studies are based on just taking it orally? Cause its apparently 10-20x more bio available taken rectally. And everyone i know that swears by takes it that way.
With it only being about 1% bio available orally.
I am not aware of any studies on rectal formulations but I know a lot of trans women use it.
does having estrogen over the recommended maximum, have negative effects directly in regards to feminization, I am aware of other side effects like blood clotting.
I've not seen studies on this, but I think too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
@@DrJamieTalks ive been over the recommended levels and im definitely not satisfied with my feminization 25months hrt.
Also I know you mentioned Growth Hormone. And you said you dont want excess GH because big hands big feet. Im assuming that GH is the same as HGH (Human Growth Hormone). I take creatine monohydrate which also boosts HGH. I would love as much information as you have on HGH and feminization.
I started HRT at the age of 60, but had the advantage of gynecomastia during puberty, so I had already reached Tanner stage 3 before starting HRT. After a few months on HRT stage 4 started and I am now at stage 5 and closing in on a D cup. The reason may be that immediately after starting HRT my testosterone level bottomed out, and has not been measurable since.
I’m so glad you’ve had such great results! 💕🏳️⚧️😊
If someone wanted to add progesterone, when would they ideally do it? After 1 month, 3? 6?
Same question about Spiro.
Typically, blockers are started at the same time as estrogen. There is no reason progesterone could not be started at this point too.
@@DrJamieTalks and do you know if there's any recent data to suggest a safe timeline to titrate up on the estradiol? Like after 3 months on a .1mg patch is it safe to go to 2 patches or would a 2 month titration be fine, or even 1 month? The data seems sparse.
Well, the goal is to get into the physiologic range. When I started estrogen, I was already blocked with lupron. I started on the 0.05 mg patch and went to 0.01 mg after about 4-6 weeks, and keep increasing it by 0.05 in that manner up to the max dose of 0.2 mg. I then checked my hormone levels (I also could have done this earlier) and found my estradiol was in the low 200s (right where I wanted it to be). I think my titration was fast, but my goal was clear--get into the physiologic range.
That's not so simple with the growth factors; estrogens desensitize tissues to them, much like androgens desensitize tissues to estrogens. For this reason, if you compare average growth factor (mostly IGF-1, as those are more stable) level between males and females, you will find that they are relatively higher in females. This may be the reason behind why bone density doesnt bounce back in transfeminine individuals who were for a long time on puberty blockers after estrogens are introduced, or at least not the same way as it does inbtransmasculine individuals after introducing testosterone. So it might actually be a good idea to test whether the levels of growth factors in transfeminine people on estrogen are age matched to their cis counterparts. And if they stay within the male norm, some growth factor secretagogue, like Egrifta, could be considered.
These are some intriguing points to consider. Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 🙂
❤❤❤😮 was given bone scan by my endoncronologist pre- Orchidectomy.. will be interesting conversation at my next appointment, in early January 2025
Personally I am currently just a bit over a year of HRT, and only recently have properly gotten my testosterone levels down. My areolas are still a smaller size than I’d like, but they’re already tanner stage 4 or 5 for me from what I can see. Breasts overall are still smaller than what I would like, but I’m really glad/kinda shocked it’s already reached this shape. Started at age 21 as well, is it perhaps I was still within an amount of IGF-1 and GH that was tapering off from puberty? As of yet I am still waiting on trying out progesterone, but likely early on next year I will bring it up with my physician since that will have been a longer period of suppressed testosterone
Personal pro tip: work on improving your chest muscle! It gives a good base for breasts to stick out from
Thanks for the "pro tip." If you end up going on progesterone, tell us how it goes. As for the IGF-1 and GH, it's hard to say. Starting in early adulthood is better than late adulthood for sure. I've observed a lot of girls your age get great results.
I'm a 30 - 35 year old trans woman. I've been on HRT for 2,5 years but recently I've stopped, hoping that me and my partner could try and start a family. After that (or failing that after a year or so) I plan to go back on HRT. I wonder what effect pausing HRT for a year could have on my breast growth? I would say that I got to about tanner stage 3, so maybe I can't expect more growth anyway.
It’s hard to say. Most girls max on their breast growth after 2-3 years. If you get more growth when you restart hormones, think of it as a bonus. ☺️
I understand that it may not be your area of expertise but I feel like there are probably dietary recommendations that are relevant here as well. (Just spitballing but like healthy fats probably help?)
Tissues are built on basic components: proteins, fats, etc. Intermittent fasting is thought to boost IGF and GH in a healthy way. I do 16:8 (16 hour fast;8 hour feeding period). This may help your boob growth hypothetically. :-)
I'm curious if even though progesterone doesn't cause development past tanner 3 it may cause changes to fat redistribution, shape, and size that makes the boobs look more appealing and matured even if, medically speaking, they're not all the way to tanner 5
I think many trans women would agree with these statements. They are just not supported by many studies.
Great study, thank you for sharing it Jamie!!
@@lorenakademar5267 You’re welcome ☺️
I took Progesterone for about a year or so. I liked some of the effects, but none of the effects were anything I could confidently attribute to breast growth.
I think my development is likely at 3, and I feel that they're small. I have had some people compliment them but I'm a little disappointed at how small they seem to me. Yet at the same time, I don't know if I want them to be very large either. Clearly, I have some mixed feelings on the subject. 😅
@@DrayseSchneider Haha! You sound like me. I’m also like a 3. Have got some positive comments, but not super satisfied. I may consider augmentation next years. Choices. Choices.
I ask my doctor about progesterone and she told me the same thing you said DrJamie.
The only thing i can add is to reduse soreness, I use wild yam cream typically and i find it helps reduce pressure and nipple itch. 😊
The nipple itch! Eek! I just use cortisone.
@DrJamieTalks baby boomer witches brew, we love our organics 😁
My endocrinologist advised me to limit my caffeine intake, since that's the same advice given to cisgender women on estrogen HRT to reduce soreness. Turns out I'm already hypersensitive to caffeine, in that it only takes 1/3 as much to get me going in the morning, so cutting down on that shouldn't be a problem.
@FrozEnbyWolf150-b9t !NO COFFEE !
Your Dr must be possessed
I did not know about the tanner stages. Thanks Jamie for elaborating on them.
I think it important for trans women to see how their breast development goes before considering implants. In my case, after two years on HRT I am a high stage 3. I am fortunate that with a bra my bust looks pretty good. With a tight top, it is even better. My development has slowed, but I still am seeing some which is nice. I do not think I will have implants, though it may be more flattering. Who wants to go through more surgeries?
I think about adding progesterone. My thoughts is to get off the spironolactone first. I expect to have a orchiectomy that will make that possible. Who wants to take more pills? I have heard a side effect of progesterone is it can help with anxiety and getting better sleep. Those are things I can use beyond the possible breast growth. But then again, how big a bust do I really want. I am lucky I can even think that way.
Sounds like you have a good plan. I'm also a "high stage 3." Not sure if I'll try progesterone. Implants are on my wish list. Keep us posted on your progress. :-)
@@DrJamieTalks I passed the pencil test on both sides of my breasts this morning. The pencil was held pretty firmly under each breast. That is the first time that happened on the first try. Life is good! ☺
Interesting video. As an amab non-binary person, is there anything I could do to limit this? I'm on a low dose of estrogen and not on anti-androgens yet, probably will after the 3 month mark since start of HRT. I want all the feminizing effects besides breast growth, so it seems that progesterone definitely isn't for me and if i do start an anti-androgen a low dose would be better?
Well I know some non-binary persons will try to get their doctors to prescribe medications like tamoxifin which prevents estrogen from exerting its effects on specific regions like the breasts. Here is a study for your reference. Do you want me to do a presentation on this topic?
doi.org/10.3389/fendo.2021.701364
What if someone is in a situation where developing breasts would put them in danger, how can you stop them while still taking E, and will they be able to develop breasts later when they are in a safer situation?
Binders or sports bras are an option. I used one on a military deployment before I came out. It worked good.
@DrJamieTalks i thought exactly about that! But see, there are also doctors in that country, and they, in their best majority, most probably, don't believe in silly things like non-cis gender & hrt, one would have to make up wild stories about where did them boobs come from. Alien experiment? "Just woke up and they were there! Help!" "Oh these aren't mine! I'm just taking care of them for a friend".
Srsly tho, can they not develop/develop later?
how do i which tanner stage i’m in? i’ve been on hormones for 5.5 years now and i thought my boobs were fully developed, but now i’m unsure
It's based on size and shape as shown in the diagrams. It also has a lot to do with what is not seen, i.e. duct development, etc.
I want to start progesterone but im terrified of it turning into androgens
I’m very not heard of that happening. I recommend talking to your provider. ☺️💕🏳️⚧️
@DrJamieTalks I've been down a rabbit hole recently and I've heard a few people say it's a possibility. But I'll def be asking my doctor.
will i have stunted breast growth if i started at 20? i'm really hoping it's not too late for me.
It's better to start at 20 than 40. I've seen girls in their 20s get good results.
I started Estradiol on the 4th of October. I haven’t noticed anything yet.
Because I’m broke and getting help on the NHS rather than privately, it take a long time to get anything done, so I haven’t been able to start any anti-androgen yet.
Can the breast cell apoptosis cause permanent problems with breast growth if I don’t get on an anti-androgen soon?
I'm not sure if the data is out on that. I would just like to say that I'm REALLY HAPPY you could start estradiol. That's a win. I hope they'll be able to start an anti-androgen for you soon!
Okay so if the decline of IGF-1 and GH levels are postulated to explain the poor growth rate of breast tissue in older individuals; be they Trans or Cis women. What can be done to temporarily increase those levels, either via a targeted application or a general application, to achieve fully maturated breasts? What would be the controls and targeted levels needed?
@@yueaeon8699 Outside of puberty, increasing IGF-1 and GH would have many possible negative effects. For example, excessive GH after puberty may result in acromegaly like effects.
Would taking something to increase prolactin (alongside taking estradiol and progesterone) help indirectly?
Not that I’m aware of. 🙂
what counts as "after adolescence"? i started HRT about 6 months ago around when I turned 19, am i likely to be limited to stage 3?
Results are quite variable. At 19, you have a MUCH BETTER chance of good growth than say someone like me who didn’t start to transition until their 30s. There are no studies looking specifically at your age group compared to let’s say individuals starting a little earlier or a little later. That said, I’m excited for you, and I’d love to hear about your progress going forward. 🏳️⚧️💕
I'm afraid of taking progesterone because I've read it can give you bad eyesight :(
@@Blasulz1234 Do what makes sense for your personal embodiment goals. Most medications carry some risks and potential side effects. Some may be quite rare. My understanding is that progesterone can cause dry eyes and thus blurry vision. There may be other effects that I’m unaware of.
So I've heard certain types of fasting (intermittent? Longer?) can help the body recycle old cells and promote positive effects of producing human growth hormone. So could incorporating fasting while transitioning lead to greater satisfaction with one's transition? Does the type of fasting have more/less effect: intermittent vs longer fasts?
@@MaskedImposter This is a good question without a great answer. Intermittent fasting has been shown to have myriad benefits to cellular metabolism. Cells are more efficient, healthier, age slower. How this might impact transition is unknown. As someone who tries to do intermittent fasting, I think the physical and metabolic benefits alone are worth giving it a try.
Thanks for the quick response! 😊 And I can appreciate the "tries" to do intermittent fasting haha. I do my best as well. I've been doing fairly good with it, but I have the occasional slip up! 😅
@ Me too! I ate a peanut butter cookie this AM. 😂
After 2 years on hrt started prog. My boobs halted in tanner 3 and were tubular and not that great. Prog in weeks filled them out made them a little bigger but mostly gave them a much more full and pretty ans nice shape.
Thanks for sharing. I'm glad progesterone has given you some positive results. 🙂
Thank you! I'm not transfem but I love to see the science behind stuff and I can share with my transfem friends
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the content. It means a lot! 💕🏳️⚧️😊
Great video. Thanks. Many things to consider.
@@josephbelisle5792 You’re welcome 🏳️⚧️🦋💕
Still watching, so maybe you address this, but wanted to ask before I forgot.
I've heard people say that they thought progesterone aided their breast growth, but when they went off prog, they realized most of the growth or at least a lot of it was temporary and only stayed when they were on prog.
I'm just curious if the growth is temp/semi-permanent (as long as you stay on prog) or permanent (even after going off prog)
Others here may be better able to answer your question. I’ve not been on progesterone, but my understanding is that the effect are permanent if they occur.
I swear by several small breast massages throughout the day especially as soon as you hit tanner 2. In a non sexual way it's just very very relaxing and helps relax me when I'm stressed and I think It definitely ehlps. I'm at i'd say a tanner 4.5 at 3 years 2 months. 400mg progesterone orally for 1 year 3 months. . My doctor swears by waiting for about 2 years and somewhere between tanner 3 and 4 before starting and I think that was a good idea for me honestly. If my breasts were on a smaller sternum they would definitely be true D's. Ik genetics and whatever but even in the past 3 months starting around the 3 year mark I've noticed even more growth. I think breast growth is such a long game that if you truly desire possible natural breats you like then I'd reccommend waiting about 8 years. This is of course going to vary with dysphoria and how much of a prirority it is to some people. Started at 30 btw.
Thanks for sharing your experience! 🏳️⚧️💕🦋😊
here we cant get progesterone outside of the black market because the gender clinics do not recognize its effects on any level and no GP wants to prescribe it, or any other hormone therapy unless it is a cis woman using it as a contraceptive.
Where are you located?
@@DrJamieTalks The rotten old state of Denmark..
I'm sorry. I know some people have struggled to access care there.
for a short while after starting hrt i had really elevated prolactine levels, maybe that explains how well mine grew since then
It's natural to get some elevation. Glad you've gotten good results!
thank you so much for insight!
I hope you can find sanctuary
Sending you all the digital support, love, affirmation, validation, and heart I can spare. I've often reflected what it must be like for transgender people in your country. I truly hope someday you'll be able to go somewhere safe where your identity is not only tolerated but celebrated, and you can get access to the medical interventions that will support you in being the best version of yourself. Love. Respect.
@DrJamieTalks thank you, it truly means a lot
I heard the progesterone tests in 2023 were low dose, orally administered and on a small group so its not 100% trust worthy, Im 31 and 11 months in with prog and I feel like Im entering tanner 4 with DD cups so although its too early to fully raise my hand and shout it works but Im definitely happier then my other friends at the same stage without prog.
I’m really happy you’ve had good results. You’re right, the data is just not so good on progesterone. That said, there’s a lot of people like you here that are telling me it was helpful. And DD. Dang! Jelly
I guess I've been lucky! I've not touched progesterone and I've achieved B/C size cups and I'm pretty sure I reached Tanner 5. There was certainly enough there for a mammogram earlier this year! I guess I'm also lucky in that I don't want anything bigger than that and I could do without any more weight gain (I'm slightly overweight right now though not significantly and I don't think it's affecting my health); also at the time I was with them, the Welsh gender service didn't do progesterone aside from trials.
@@robynrox Thanks for sharing. I think it’s very happy to know what services are available in other parts of the world. Glad to hear your boob growth has been optimal. 🥰
I started my Transition 2 months ago and I’m type 1 diabetic so my GH and IGH are soooo f‘ing low :( not my boobs!! 😭
I'm sorry. Don't despair. You're just starting and results are variable. Boobs do come in all sizes. Please manage your DM1 well.
im not on the US so no worries 💜🫰🏽
It's been 1 year and few days since i started HRT at age 22. Already had upper level of progesterone before starting compares to other 'males". My doc started my HRT with only oestrogen+ progesterone, and my testosterone levels just get lowers after that. I have a Europeen 80B, and i'm still waiting patiently to see where i can get. I'll udpate if some people are interested.
Yay! Happy you're having such positive results. Please share your progress on a future video.
I'm almost 17, and in the closet. What age is too late to be likely to progress pass stage 3? Do I have a chance?
Everyone’s bodies are different. Many people here in the comment section report good growth as adults. May the growth be with you! 🏳️⚧️
So if IGF-1 and GH levels gradually decrease over time why can't they be taken as supplements or injections along with HRT?
One issue is that after growth plates fuse, excessive GH causes acromegaly.my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17743-acromegaly
I just want to say that this comment section is making me so happy 😭❤️❤️
Wishing all the girlies here much success in their transitions ❤️🎉🎉🎉
Trans rights are human rights! 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
@@RukiaChan15 You are seen and valued here! 💕🏳️⚧️😊
In 2014 before I started HRT I tried a product claiming to promote breast growth. I didn't expect it to work but tried it anyway. Much to my surprise it worked quite well. I went from practically no breasts to nearly a C cup in 8 months. Guess I lucked out. Total cost for a 9 month sublime bust supply was about $270.00. It also helped a female friend of mine.
Thanks for sharing your experience. 😊🏳️⚧️💕
what was this product please? did it work for your friend ?
@@Aurora146 I replied twice but it may require Dr Jamie's approval to be seen. Do a search for sublime bust serum. It's made by cheeky physique and yes it did work for my female friend.
@@Aurora146 I'm working around the awe tow may did sense or ship. Do a search for sublime bust serum. It's made by cheeky physique and yes it did work for my female friend.
Sublime I think. Bust the next one.
I've been having difficulty because my doctor is good, but I am rural so my appointments are months apart (over worked, understaffed hospital and no alternatives)- so testing and medication adjustment has been agonizingly slow. I've been on HRT for two years, but I have not made two years worth of progress due to this crawl.
I'm really starting to feel the drag.
The relevance is- I hope this is not permanently impeding my breast growth.
Yikes. It's hard to say. Are you close to the goal ranges for T and E? If not, the next conversation might focus on what changes need to be made to get you there.
@@DrJamieTalks The plot thickened since this comment... Your video got me concerned so I went and talked to some friends of mine in the trans community.
My trans friends found out I was prescribed 400mg of spiro a day. They promptly all freaked out immediately and begged me to stop right now. One remarked "girl, how do you have a liver left?"
I also brought up how this entire time I have not once been shown my hormone levels, and both times a blood test has been ordered, and I have gone to let them vampire me, the lab has not returned hormone results. Only standard blood test stuff.
Unfortunately I am broke, and have no car, and this is a VERY rural area. You also cannot simply call your doctor, like most of America these days, you are gate kept by the front desk and setting appointments. Their website portal goes unanswered and when you bring it up in person everybody will just say, "better to just make an appointment".
Problem is, appointments go months between and staff is constantly turning over.
Medicaid is also about to be devastated next year so I am not even sure I will continue having THIS option... I'm scared, like most of us, now.
Just a small question, IGF AND GH levels diminish gradually after puberty. My question is how gradually? I’m freshly 21 and started my transition two months after the fact; so I’m wondering about how steep the curve is in relation to my own body.
Congrats on starting your transition! 😊 21 is so young! I’m so excited for you! I’m not sure what you IGF and GH values are but I can tell you for certain they are better than mine. 🙂 May all the transition goals to which you aspire be realized.
You mentioned that obtaining proper hormone levels is essential, my clinician through planned parenthood doesn't monitor, test, or feel discussing hormone levels is necessary for treatment. I have been getting private testing done so that I can better monitor my hormone levels, currently my estradiol level is 172 pg/mL and my testosterone levels are 45 ng/dL. I am on sublingual monotherapy and the clinician won't increase my dose any further. Should I ask for an anti-androgen or insist more heavily that I switch to injections or are those acceptable ranges?
I think, it's too low estrogen levels. I'm personally on injections, with really high estrogen, it's easy to achieve high levels with injections, without health risks.
I'm 1.5 months on HRT and get stage 1.5
For transgender women, the Endocrine Society guidelines define the target range of estradiol as 100-200 pg/mL (367-734 pmol/L), and testosterone and 30-100 ng/dL. Per these values you are right on target. 🎯
I'll only reach tanner 3 at most? That's a shame
Tanner 3 is where I ended up. Some people here in the comments report better results. Augmentation is always an option once you’ve maxed out.
Bit spooky as I started at 24, been on Een monotherapy for 10 months. I'm still seeing some growth, albeit it's not as rapid as that initial few months. I've got prog on the way already but I had a couple questions:
1) I may have missed it but I don't think it was addressed, is adding the IGF independent of growth hormone a viable route worth exploring? Is there any research on that specifically if it would be safe and without potentially undesirable development?
2) Have there been any other findings as to potentially furthering growth?
You don’t want to add IGF and growth hormone as the increase in growth hormone specifically would cause drug induced acromegaly. There is just no good science out there to support additional medication interventions beyond those in the guidelines.
@DrJamieTalks what about only the IGF?
@ Hmm 🤔 I think ozempic has some effects on IGF-1. Not sure.
Is there any research on individuals who went on estrogen based HRT when they had partial puberty? Preferably without blockers as that happened to me, but with blockers would be nice to read over.
I’ve not seen data on partial puberty and HRT. Generally, less puberty = better results. 🙂
When do you reccomend i start prog? Im due my 3 month appointment soon should i ask to add it?
I would recommend talking to your hormone provider about it. I'm not sure there is any data out there that says adding progesterone at a specific time leads to better feminizing effects.
Hi, thank you for the video. I started HRT at around 17 however I was for most of the time underweight. I’m almost19 now, and currently underweight but less than before. Could this have had negative effect on breast growth?
I think it makes sense that if you are underweight, you would have small breasts in general. How that might effect the actual architecture of the breasts, I'm not really sure, but any kind of growth needs adequate nutrition. :-) Are you trying to gain some weight?
@ thank you for your answer. I’ve been trying to eat more but it’s somewhat difficult. My main goal right now is to stop losing weight
Thank you for the explanation. The topic doesn't apply to me, but I always want to know/understand more of the biochemistry involved. And I can't resist noting that when you said we were going to be talking about boobs, I thought "Are we still on JD Vance?"
@@whoviating Haha! No, if I were still talking about JD, the topic would be eye liner! 😂
I'm allergic to progesterone both biodentical and synthetic.
Eek! Avoid it!
Y’all should look up what progesterone is used for in the 28 day period cycle. Then you’ll understand why it’s so key for breast growth. I’m a cis female and Im trying to make an effort to understand my natural body better and actually appreciate it since I grew up in a community that thinks periods are gross lol progesterone is key for so many cool things.
Thanks for commenting. We appreciate your perspective.
Started on the girl juice at 47. Not sure if I'm at Tanner 3 or 4, but I've been on prog for a while. The weight gain is real, lol. Actually thinking about pausing my prog to see what happens - I could stand to lose some weight. 😂
Yes, progesterone can cause weight gain. 😭
Thankyou. I have just started a few weeks ago. I have one breast a C cup, and the other a B cup. I have had gynecomastia since being on heart medication years ago. I'm hoping its a head start to something bigger. Can you please tell me how pre existing Gynecomastia ties in with your thorough research. Thanks and best wishes.
So, gynecomastia is often related to hormone imbalances. It is an increase in breast duct tissue, not just fat which would be pseudo-gynecomastia. I’m not sure whether the existence of gynecomastia would help or diminish overall breast growth on HRT.
@@DrJamieTalks First, thankyou so much for responding. Interesting you saying that it may diminish the effects. I had not considered that. Hope some student does a thesis on it one day. Wouldn't that be weird. Very best wishes..
I learned something! Thank you :D
@@Ubeleili Yay! 😀
If for any reason a trans woman is unable or don't want to take hormones would she be able to get breast surgery ? Because as a trans woman it scares me should the government be able to one day ban hrt and having to stop hormone therapy and dieing do to lack of hormones is why I'm scared of starting hormones or having srs I've read that for vfs and ffs hormones are not required . Would I have to have letters for vfs and ffs ?
Per WPATH guidelines, to qualify for surgery a person needs a diagnosis of gender incongruence or dysphoria and usually 6 months or more of hormones. If a person has a particular medical reason for not being on hormones, then some providers may still write a letter supporting surgery if it may significantly improve dysphoria.