Wow. This is some top tier Elden Ring analysis. I've watched 100s of hours of ER lore and theories since the first trailer in 2021. This is the first I've heard of your channel. And if your other ER vids are of similar quality, it's crazy that the views aren't higher. Liked and shared. Keep up the good work.
I already watch you but I came here after watching ziostorm’s reaction to this video, awesome job and I’m glad you’re getting the attention you deserve
Excellent video Ontos! You did such a great job catching much of the visual symbolism. As well as your deduction to where the Gloam Eyed Queen's location is within the timeline, I agree with you. Though, I still think you and many others are going to have to apologize to Marika when we learn exactly why she did all of this, and that she might not be the villain she is made out to be. For example: Messmer's Purge was without Grace, which is linked to Marika and the Erdtree, so perhaps the relationship between Messmer and Marika isn't so clear cut. That is all to say JUSTICE FOR MARIKA!
Another pro-Amarika voter joins the cult of Messmer! Thank you Jack. This video is partly possible because of your footage, insights and contributions throughout. Much love
First up, the Miquella cut content quote makes me think the division of the Land of Shadows from the Lands Between was caused by Miquella to end conflict between the residents their and those in the Lands Between. Second, that “satchel of cloth” I think is likely an eye like that of something similar what the two living corpses of Godwyn. Third, I enjoyed it.
Do you think that when we enter the shadow realm we will lose our levels, just like Miquella lost his strength, Grace and fate? Do you think that might be how the new level up system might work with us all starting at zero in the new system.
"And so too was Shadow born" I think could still refer to the Rune of Death as well, let me explain how: Why does it have two names in the first place even? I think Destined Death always existed as a force in the world, but maybe since life and death were so intertwined together it didn't exist as an individual Rune. So in that sense plucking Destined Death out of the Order and creating the Rune of Death could be the same thing. If the Rune was an unintended creation it also better explains why it wasn't sealed immediately and why the GEQ was able to claim it. Aside from that I agree with pretty much everything in the video, and I especially like the mention of the Crucible Knight fighting Beastmen in Farum Azula. I still find the idea of Miquella's fate becoming a person confusing but I like the connection to the Nox/Numen; one thing to note is that Melina also seems to use sleep magic on us before burning herself.
I need to see the purple myst tho. Melina doesn't do that before the forge. That's the trina giveaway. Melina's goals are more aligned with the other self actually. Miquella. She gives us his 'torrent' after all. Very much pro-Golden order.
You need more recognition my brotha you have some of the best an deepest takes I’ve seen an believe me I seen a lot but none are as deep an Consistent as your lore
Thank you. Im happy with my small little community of great people like you who enjoy the videos. Im trying to give my A game to each video regardless of the views or reach. Im enjoying the sheer process of making videos. So Im definitely happy and really excited to start my lets play when the dlc rolls around
im leaning towards Miquella is supposed to mirror Marika. that maybe if we knew more about marikas age we'd see her actions as more understandable. I think he was able to piece together what she did to come to power and hes trying to do the same thing himself. I think their motivations can be both pure and selfish. Miquella can love everyone and have pure intentions and also bring about death and despair. more duality type stuff. The gloam eyed queen so far linked to destined death and skinning gods but is also tied to motherly imagery. A swaddling cloth and newborn apostles. We like to say Marika is shattering the ring and radagon is fixing it. But it works just as well they are each doing both. Radagon is fixing the ring and shattering it at the same time. And then from a cinematic perspective. The DLC promo material references Miquella directly. So its supposed to a be central to the plot of the DLC. Thats not speculation. But the story trailer starts with Marikas origin. And we know how her story ends already. Miyazaki already said this doesnt effect the endings. So from a writing perspective its showing us Marika in the trailer is to tell us more about Miquella. the alternative is its just fan service trickling us imagery they know we want to see to tease us. But if we believe these are deliberately crafted its showing us Marika to tell us more about Miquella. So that leads me to if we see Marika ascending to Godhood in the trailer, thats probably what Miquella is trying to do as well.
"I think their motivations can be both pure and selfish." This is where I am torn because I just don't see any of the demi-gods trying to help anyone. The "Berserk/Griffith" spin on the story arc makes me think ultimately we will fight Miquella. Maybe that's what FROM wants us to think. ;)
@@raymondcaswell5622 help in a world without death seems especially subjective. Rykard is weird and gross and selfish but also seems to be providing a needed service. feeding yourself to the giant man snake isnt really all that different than erd tree burial. IDK what your take on radahn is. whatever it is, i mean, hes fighting for something. Im pretty sure Morgott thinks hes doing the right thing. I honestly dont know much about mohg, but like, arent the albinaurics there by choice? Doesnt he wish to build a kingdom.? He seems to offer something to the weak, doomed, and dejected. and ranni sees what the two fingers have done and want to free TLB of their influence. My guess is even after the DLC and we learn more and have sorted through it that it will all still be debatable.
I’m just calling it now, St.Trina is the outer god of sleep/dreams & because destined death was sealed making death non existent, meaning the ‘dead’ are technically in an eternal slumber/dream.. just like miquella was, St.Trina is now the outer god of the ‘dead’ as well, which includes Godwyn. I think the line in the trailer saying Miquella abandoned his faith while St.Trina is falling, is referring to miquella removing St.Trina’s influence over him via the unalloyed needle, the needle miquella made to remove the influence of an outer god, beating the eternal slumber this giving himself a true death. This is why he is glowing, this is why he is there in the land of shadows, to give Godwyn a true death, by removing St.Trina’s influence. Maybe the only way Miquella could save Godwyn from the eternal slumber/The land of shadows AKA the dreamworld is by removing the influence of outer god of sleep/dreams, St.Trina, giving him a true death like himself. St.Trina being the outer god of the dead that are in an eternal slumber, explains how miquella was eternally a child & in an eternal slumber & connected to St.Trina.. Miquella died as a child after the sealing of destined death. Him dying as a child would of put him into an eternal slumber thus eternally preserving his youth as a child & placing him under the influence of St.Trina; To me it explains all 3 mysteries of Miquela perfectly. Just a personal theory of mine.
Anyone else notice that the iconic statues of Marika and Radagon depict them as physically representing the runes of Life and Death? Both are in a T pose, with Marika’s arms stretching over here head, while Radagon’s arms are angled slightly down, mirroring Destined Death. His red hair then would be not from fire giant lineage, but from a connection to Death itself. Given Marika’s seeemingly strawberry blonde hair in the trailer (it’s hard to tell whether the red tint is due to the lighting or not, but the fact this is ambiguous in the first place leads me to suspect Marika’s golden hair previously had a red hue). The lattice symbol typically thought of as Radagon’s elden rune is actually a rune or seal used to...well, seal things. We see the sorcerers employ such a seal both at Rays Lucaria and in the Sellia crystal tunnels. It’s just as likely that this seal magic was taught to Radagon by the Carians as it was the other way around, as it’s generally assumed to be. Since rejoining Marika, Radagon’s knowledge of spells fused with Marika, and by extension the golden god of the lands between (the elden ring/beast/erdtree). Hence the nigh-unbreakable thorn seal containing Marika/Radagon, who have both essentially lost any semblance of themselves and exist now as little more than a husk to be piloted by the Elden Beast. It’s why Radagon, champion of sorcery and incantation, who founded an entire school of religious philosophical scholarship based upon the fusion of both, only uses Golden magic. Magic seen employed by no one but the Elden Beast. Tangent aside, I don’t think you are correct about your GEQ timeline, as it seems you are forgetting a core piece of the relevant lore. Namely, that the Black Flame of the Godskins drew power from the time of Death. Now, it’s possible that when Marika sealed it away at the founding of the golden order, she just chucked it in her closest snd called it a day, allowing for it to be stolen by the GEQ at a later time. However, there is nothing that suggests this, and i can’t personally think of a way that this version of events “fits” the way it should. What makes more sense to me is that GEQ and pre-Erdtree Marika were contemporaries and rivals of some sort for godhood. For reasons too numerous to get into in an already far too long yt comment, I feel pretty confident saying that Marika and GEQ were/are related, and that at least one meaning behind the trailer’s mention of betrayal is Marika betraying her family in order to achieve godhood. I think that this betrayal referenced likely will end up referring to a few things, as Marika has done her fair share of betrayals in her time. Marika, and indeed other Empyreans, are granted a shadow while still Empyrean, or simply candidates in line to the throne of godhood. So Malekith was in all likelihood already serving Marika prior to the Golden Order, and indeed needs to have been. His name literally means death of the gods, and the era of recognized and accepted polytheism ended with the Golden Order. I think that the godskins, who sought the death of the gods, the old serpent cult of Gelmir (including the original versions of the Pagans, whose scant modern remains include the dancers in the windmill village), who sought the death of the gods, and Marika were, at one point, allied against some pantheon of old gods. Perhaps seeking an age without lords or something, honestly the potential motivations are myriad. At some point, Marika is seduced by the power of godhood or Grace or some other connected concept, and betrays those she fought with, and ascends to godhood, alone. This act is what ultimately set the current events in motion, this fateful decision to embrace the cosmic power of gold.
What if: St Trina and the Gloam-Eyed queen are shadow counterparts to Miquella and Marika. Miquella seeks to unite himself with his shadow counter part to achieve the Jungian self and also to do the same with the entirety of the lands between by seeking to reunite the lands between with the realm of shadow. The shadows are everything rejected by Marika and the golden order and exists in the Shadow realm. Marika somehow managed to create the shadow realm to separate the lands between from all the things she deems bad to her golden order. St Trina and the Gloam-Eyed queen were unintentional results of this separation. The entire DLC is about achieving the Jungian self. Also unrelated to the DLC, maybe after all this time, after the death of Godwin Marika realises how fragile and hopeless her golden order really is and just gives up and lets some else be in charge, which is the basis for tanished crusade to become elden lord. She decided that the best candidates would be people completely separate from her imperfect order but she was still racist and didn't like the moon, so no nox or numen and had to be a human, hence the tarnished she from the lands between long ago.
@@Ontos99 I'm very excited for a new IP, but with the DLC, I think I've had enough of Elden Ring. Yes, it's the best game I've ever played, but I don't think they will add much if they decide to do Elden Ring 2. To be honest, some people think that 'Shadow of the Erdtree' is somewhat the closest thing to Elden Ring 2.
Really nice catch that she's making the "Rune of Life" pose Marika probably would have Maliketh before becoming a god, though, as Ranni has Blaidd when she's still just a candidate as emperyean
Becoming a god and being an empyrean are not separate events in this case nor is this like a Ranni situation. Greater will hasnt taken shape as the elden ring to begin with before Marika birthed the erdtree and her golden order becoming the visions vessel. You dont become an empyrean before being a god. Empyrean are gods to forge an order. That status was given to Marika by the Greater when she embodied the elden ring by being vision's vessel. From this point onwards, Marika's offsprings become empyreans directly due to genetic heritage gets appointed by GW's fingers. But I don't think that is possible before they embodied the laws of nature yet. Furthermore, RoD needs to be plucked from the ring to begin with for GEQ to be able to physically wield it in the first place which makes her timeline post Golden order. As thats when the Rod was plucked. Upon its creation. Much love
@@Ontos99 Ontos: "You dont become an empyrean before being a god." War Counselor Iji: "The Two Fingers gave Blaidd to Lady Ranni, as a faithful follower...." Ranni the Witch: "Which is when I received Blaidd. In the form of a vassal tailored for an Empyrean." Ranni: "Each of us was chosen by our own Two Fingers, as a candidate to succeed Queen Marika, to become the new god of the coming age." This is where we would disagree because of Ranni and Blaidd. My only question regarding shadows in general is where are Miquella's and Malenia's?? So back to the point of this. Ok, so my "mark of the Empyrean" theory (which I know is right) is that all the Empyreans have that mark on their left eye. I know the Remembrance of Rot says they have to born of a single god....but if that were truly the only way then all of the other demi-god's would be Empyreans as well. So they are "chosen" by the two fingers and the seal is that mark on their left eye. This is why the game goes out if it's way to hide those so much. So the Empyreans are chosen by the Two Fingers, and then the Empyreans basically duke it out to become the ruler of the next age...at the eclipse ceremony. Maliketh was the first shadow, but Marika had to have him around prior to that scene in the story trailer. I am hoping the DLC gives us more background on that. Saying that, I do not think the GEQ is the pregnant figure Marika is pulling the strands from. I do think it's the person in the painting standing next to the old dude. I do think Messmer is inside of that belly also. The trailer is very clear, shadow was born at the same time. So maybe when Marika pulled those strands, that is the child's "grace" and Messmer was born cursed as a result. This is why he considers Marika to be his "mother." She may or may not have birthed him, but she is still the reason he exists. You do see a "scar" on the bottom of the belly for like 2 seconds in that scene so it's hard to say what happened there without more info. So it is possible that Maliketh "defeated" the GEQ at that point but it doesn't make sense. Under Marika, there was no "destined death" because it was sealed away in Maliketh. The Erdtree did not exist at that point. When you die, your spirit goes back to the Erdtree. Finger Reader Enia: "A remembrance of gold has found its way into your possession. Demigods, and even the greater of the champions, are hewn by the Erdtree upon their end, into remembrances." In order for Melina to be the "spirit" or something similar of the GEQ then that would mean she would have had to get sucked back into the Erdtree. Ok, it just didn't exist at that point. Personally, I think the GEQ would be a perfect start for Elden Ring II. I DO think the figure we see in the middle of the burning city reading that scroll IS the GEQ. Anyway, I'll stop here again. :)
There are a few ways I can answer this comment. In my eyes, these concepts of 'empyrean' and 'Marika's godhood' starts with the age of the Erdtree. Greater will, fingers and the Elden beast wasn't even established in the slightest before the birth of the erdtree. Thats's how Marika as a Numen becomes a god where Ranni afterwards is an empyrean by her genetic heritage. Making the same argument for Marika is problematic because Marika needs to establish the Greater will first as its avatar. That concept doesn't even exist as alluded to with the protection of the Erdtree description. Furthermore, GEQ uses the Rune of death to kill gods. RoD was only plucked from the ring and separated in Golden order's birth. How would you posit GEQ to wield destined death pre-Erdtree and Golden order as it was a part of the laws of nature and wasn't yet separated? (or plucked as the lore goes)
@@raymondcaswell5622 In my eyes, the sheer phrase of 'being an empyrean' means you are of divinity. Ranni is a demigod already. She IS a god. Demigod merely refers to their children status of Marika. And empyrean means they are gods that can forge a new order and can replace Marika. So saying Marika could be an empyrean 'before' the Erdtree's birth is problematic in my eyes. Marika needs to be the vision's vessel first by embodying the elden ring. Thats how she becomes a god and attains the empyrean status in the first place. Thanks to the greater will. But again, I can see a different reading here. The GEQ and rune of death plucking timeline is more important and critical to the argument
@@raymondcaswell5622 Basically I dont think Fingers existed before the Erdtree's birth. Erdtree is one of the Greater will's manifestations and fingers are its envoys. Saying Fingers existed before the Erdtree is inconsistent logic for me. Not entirely impossible but doesn't sound too believable for me.
Ontos, just read this in an article and thought you would very much like it: "Another interesting thing to note is that there is a roar in the background as well when Marika's hair is blown away with the wind from the portal, which many believe could also be the birth of Maliketh. This, in fact, resonates quite well with the narration during the clip, which states "an affair from which Gold arose, and so too was Shadow born." That's your argument right there.
Oh, and I get what you are saying here: "When the Rune of Death was plucked from the Elden Ring, and confined, the Golden Order was created, with Queen Marika as its one true god." So that dead maybe pregnant person in the trailer can't possibly be the GEQ as it wasn't until Marika "plucked" the RoD was that it was possible for the GEQ to wield it. Either way, I would agree that it's not the GEQ.
@@raymondcaswell5622 Yes. Otherwise how would GEQ wield the power of the destined death to kill gods? We know that the sheer process of plucking or 'shattering the shards' enable the individual to use its power (no longer connected to the nexus of the elden ring). This is precisely how the demigods were tainted by its strengths and became shardbearers. The insight is that the very same mechanic applies to Gloam Eyed Queen as well. She needs the Rune of Death to be 'plucked' from the elden ring FIRST to be able to utilize and exert its will on the world. This puts it 'post Golden order' timeline. Until Maliketh defeats her and confines the DD within his blade. Empyreans that 'forge a new order' might be the modus operandi of Greater will (to balance the dynamics of the realm) but Marika who desires an eternal realm does not want direct competition which is why Maliketh defeated GEQ who was the former empyrean status of Melina. I'll explain and give my arguments for why I think GEQ was the former empyrean status of Melina in another video. It will probably happen well after the DLC releases and I roll the credits on it. I'll have to go 'no youtube' mode until I finish the game. I'll only share my let's play videos on the channel. So, lore videos will have to wait a bit ;)))
@@Ontos99 When I'm playing I won't be doing this too much lol. I'll put the basics together but the deep micro analysis stuff we're doing now won't happen for a bit. I don't know if it's "post Golden Order" because that would put the world post shattering. Something to think about.
This doesn't relate to the topic, but it occurred to me, as the vid was paused and I was thinking, if bosses in the DLC will produce remembrances in the same fashion. That is, if these "shadow" aspects were "hewn into the Erdtree" in the same way, or if they will be evidence of a fundamental separation, not unlike some fundamental aspect that will supposedly empower us within that realm, if we so choose. As a side-note though: "in pursuit of something greater" is a really intriguing statement, I hadn't noticed that until now. This implies that Miquella understood the core aspects that pertain to perhaps both the Golden Order status quo and the history before it, and thus sacrificed his ordained "fate" to look elsewhere for, uh, a "resolution", perhaps.
Yes that last idea you've alluded to is also something that I might allude to at the end of the video ;)) It is an interesting idea. That depends on the nature of the bosses and whether they are capable of inheriting a great rune in the shadow realm to begin with. Remember Miquella is an exception to the rule as he arrived to this land from LB post shattering. It is unknown if Messmer actually inherited a great rune post shattering. I can actually see someone making an argument against it easily after this trailer. I can explain why but it would take a long time. Dont get me wrong. You don't need to inherit a rune to have a remembrance per se. So the idea you propose is not challenged here but someone can definitely make the argument demigods of marika in this shadow land don't inherit a great rune.
Hey Ontos I love your art, I also draw not as good as you but one day when I post my first drawing I’d Like for you to tell me on how to improve on it or what to fix. Also great video as usual ❤️
Well I said that countless times in my previous videos. Smithing stone 7, might just be the single most underrated but important item description to understand the origin timeline of elden ring. I was arguing for this ever since I released my Farum Azula video.
Wasn’t maliketh given to marika when she was an empyrean similar to blaidd was to ranni? In malikeths remembrance says he was a shadow born beast given to his empyrean meaning marika was not yet a god when maliketh was given to him.
I suspect, there is an ongoing misunderstanding of the Golden Order and the Destined Death. The Golden Order is the specific state of the Elden Ring, or the specific set of natural laws, chosen by Marika. "An epoch glistening with life", as she puts it. The Destined Death is what Marika considers a fundamental flaw of the previous world order. A natural law that prevents life from shining. So what is the world desired by Marika? In her own words: "Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord." "Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices." "Put the Giants to the sword" Even we, the Tarnished, are called to return to the Lands Between and wage war, "because how else a Lord can be born"? Judging by this, Marika doesn't appear to be terrified by a concept of death. The Destined Death and a death are separate concepts. A death is a natural part of the cycle of life. Stones never die, but they also aren't "glistening with life". As a monotheistic goddess of life, Marika has to accept (and does) a concept of death. And people are correct when they say: "an infinite life is unsustainable and unrealistic". But that's not what the Golden Order stands for. But Marika wasn't completely indifferent. Gideon tell us: "I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form. [..] Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified." It's also assumed that Marika mourned Godwyn. We can't confirm this, but other characters can believe it to be true. So, what's special about these deaths? These are cases where a great potential is wasted (or assumed to be wasted). In other words, these lives never came to full fruition. That's what gets to Marika's guts, and it can be a concept represented by the Destined Death. It explains why the Destined Death is able to kill a god. Gods aren't mortal, but if you cut their destiny before it fully unfolds... it may do the trick. There's one more problem, which allegedly forced Marika to shatter the Elden Ring. The undeath of Godwyn the Golden. Undeath prevents deaths from creating a new life. It breaks the cycle of life and the Golden Order. That's not how Marika wants to immortalize great heroes of the Golden Order. They should continue their existance as rememberances, enriching the collective memory of the people. It's their great achievements and legacy that were meant to be immortalized by the Golden Order. Let's summarize it. The Destined Death prevents one from reaching their full potential. Marika's rejection of the Destined Death is probably rooted in some of her past experiences in Lands of Shadow. Unlike Miquella with his ability to control minds of others, Marika stands for life as it is. Her gifts come with no strings attached. She is fine with our personal desires, as long as they lead to progress, and won't interrupt the cycle of life. Marika does not seek an infinite power and endless reign for herself. It's more like she sees the value of life in hardship. The Golden Order is perfect for champions like Godfrey, but it feels evil and oppressive to those who exist to rot alive. As for Ranni... she just wants to sell the world to her funny moon god. When she escapes immediately, you know she did something really 'nice' to the world.
Excellent analysis, you cooked again Ontos. I appreciate the counter against the claim that the cinematic’s corpse is the GEQ, the timeline of events makes more sense here than in many other videos
@@Ontos99 On an unrelated note, do you still align with the belief that the Twinbird will make some sort of appearance? I wanted to mention a couple of subtle details that reinforce that idea, like one of the new Elden Ring tweets mentioning an umbra (meaning an Eclipse does exist, or something akin to one). Deathbirds are imitated by the same Mausoleum Knights who also have Eclipse iconography, so it’s not farfetched to assume that Deathbirds return in some capacity - especially the first DLC trailer where we see a set of black wings for armor. And since the DLC is about the upheaval of existing ancient cultures, it would only make sense. CFA has depictions for this envoy everywhere, and I doubt it’s a generic asset since the very first time you spawn there you see a corpse facing one of its murals - environmental storytelling that directly addresses the relief. I believe there’s more to this group that’s been overlooked, Miyazaki mentioned the elaboration and completion of groups so you never know
@@giantenemyfool If not Twinbird, I'm still confident that a different vessel beast was the representation of this 'crucible realm' prior and as the protection of the erdtree states 'it (erdtree and the greater will) became the embodiment of order' after war and struggle. Much love. I can't wait to learn more soon
@@giantenemyfool But just to be clear, Twinbird is still the highest likelihood and possibility UNLESS Miyazaki is cooking to introduce a pure dragon based outer god specific to the DLC relating to Placi's fled god.
@@giantenemyfool I think we will see the Twin bird for sure. They are keepers of fire (ghost flame) prior to the Erdtree. The Twin bird is the mother of the Death birds. Not to mention it's likeness is all over Faram Azula.
Hey Ontos, after doing some research (mostly Berserk) I genuinely think I know how the DLC is going to go down. The eclipse event only happens every 1000 years, except that Radahn delayed this last one with his power over the stars, which is why he needs to die. “Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless... I will never set my eyes upon it now... Your divine Haligtree..” The “it” the ghost is referring to is the “Incarnation Ceremony” where Miquella transforms into a god and takes up the rule of the “Land Betweens.” What we are witnessing in the latest SotE story video is the last time this ceremony happened. Marika is literally walking across the dead bodies of the people she “sacrificed” for her to become a god. The piled bodies are also a “symbol” of what she had to do to reach her goal. Who that pregnant person is she pulls the gold strands from, we don’t know yet. That sequence *could* have been a dream, possibly shared from Trina, or just some sort of vision. Anyway, we do know that Messmer was born from “corruption” and that he is likely Marika’s. What “seduction and betrayal” and we don’t know yet, but we do know that Marika is the protagonist and she slept with someone is some fashion. Messmer “appeared as a misshapen fetus with a reddened left eye……It was hairless and had an infantile face with a tumorous bump on its forehead that covered its right eye” and is “evil nature, but would nevertheless maintain a kindred bond with its parents.” “The Demon Child appeared almost exclusively at night, but during the day manifested in a shadowy area to avoid the sun.” Again, we are not sure who the father is yet or the circumstances that he exists. Messmer is NOT and Empyrean….I repeat NOT an Empyrean, but he is a demi-god. Moving forward, Miquella is an Empyrean. He has the mark of an Empyrean on this left eye. Only Empyreans can be gods. Empyreans are “…said to grant one the world in exchange for the owner's flesh and blood” and “…will offer a precious sacrifice in exchange for being reborn” as a god because of “coming to terms with who he truly is.” In this case it would be his little band at the end of the SotE story video. His followers, or “apostles,” are physically branded for sacrifice and are “….someone close and important to the summoner, are then offered to creatures of the darkness and ritualistically murdered.” This is why I believe we are not seeing Miquella’s followers faces and why the one we do see covers the right side of their face. They are all going to the “Tower of Conviction” in the Land of Shadow to have this ceremony. This ceremony was the exact same one Marika did when she became a god, which is what we are seeing in the beginning of the story trailer. Mequilla realizes his “fate” (which is Empyrean, not Trina) and sacrifices his peeps, and becomes “reborn.” Anyway, there’s TONS more here including on Messmer and Trina (Danan), but this is getting obsessive, lol. I think you’re 100% right on Trina, and I don’t think she will be evil after all. Get ready to fight Mequilla as Griffith. I’m sure you know all of this already though.
after watching this I'm a bit confused on if St Trina will be a disconnected character since Miquella abandoned her. Could it be like the Moonlight Child from Berserk where they swap every so often? Or would it be a physical disconnect like Radagon and Marika before they conjoined?
@@echohazmat8759 They will initially appear separated like Radagon and Marika imo. We might see another unification at the very end. The unification of Golden order (Miquella) and Carians (Trina) - The gold & the Silver. Just like how Radagon (Gold/Fire giant Origins) conjoined with Marika (Silver/Numen Origins) hope this helps and answers your question
Wait, Melina doesn't necessarily disappear entirely after (re)burning in the Forge. She seems to survive burning in the Frenzied Flame, so, I wouldn't cross her being part of the DLC because of a conflict in narrative.
But let's think about this realistically. Miyazaki won't create a DLC for people who got the frenzy flame ending. Most people got the Melina sacrifice ending. Trina is a VERY important part of this DLC. So the idea that Melina is St. Trina is not possible from a purely business and financial standpoint. Let alone the idea (at least in my understanding) doesn't work out nearly as well from a lore perspective to begin with. Miyazaki is not gonna force 90% of people to replay the game just because they 'burned the erdtree and sacrificed Melina' Does that make sense?
@@Ontos99 oh I absolutely agree, but it's a lot of fun to leave room for all possibilities! I happen to disagree with at least half of what I watch on YT but it's so much fun and entertaining. If half of creators refrained from putting themselves out there there would be way less than half the discussion! Btw you make great content, I love it 👌
There are no Omen at the Haligtree. There are Kindred, Crystallians, Royal Revenants, Misbegotten, Miranda flowers, Battle Mages, Spirit Caller Snails, zombies, Haligtree knights, and Cleanrot Knights, but no Omen whatsoever. How can you conclude that Miquella wanted his Haligtree to be a sanctuary for Omen when none are sheltered there?
Yes. I'd still conclude that. Omens are currently locked up immediately after birth within the sewers under the Golden order's strict regimes. Keep that in mind. I'm sure Miquella is very sympathetic to omens. That's obvious if you analyze his other lore related items and create a worldview for him
@@Ontos99 there are Omen free around Leyndell and elsewhere in game. I think their exclusion belies the notion that Miquella sympathizes with them. St. Trina also tortures the Omen with nightmares. Personally, I think the Omen horns are necessary for growing up unto being a fertile person (puberty via the cornicello fertility symbol) and the reason Miquella cannot grow to adulthood is because he is "unalloyed" or devoid of the Crucible. This might be why he is going to the Shadowlands.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 Miquella creates a safe haven for people who are interested. He doesn't force the Omens to stay in his Haligtree. I can 'almost' guarantee you Miquella doesn't have an inherent problem with omens and actually has sympathy for them. Just like he alludes to with the DLC cut content 'All things will flourish, whether graceful or malign'
The Haligtree is a place venerated by the Albinaurics, yet you could argue that there are no Albinaurics present there either (Loretta isn’t hard-confirmed to be an albinauric, but it’s suggested). The place is deliberately kept well-hidden, so I wouldn’t be surprised if no refugee Omen ever found their way in. The only Omen I can think of with knowledge of the place is Mohg, who stole Miquella from the Haligtree
Our thoughts align obviously, great job! Most of those "other" theories you mention are just click-bait anyways (God skins, GEQ, Melina). It's funny because the things you mention about Ranni and Trina are the same questions I have. Yes, Messmer is "purging" the freaks and oddities. Marika is really THE antagonist in Elden Ring. To me, she is very "Hilter" like. The Golden Order isn't so "golden." Now where my thoughts take me down other paths, is the "Berserk" part of this. What motives are Miquella's? The trailer says he "abandoned his fate" and that was Trina obviously. She's also "purple" which has been used as the color of death in Elden Ring (opposite of gold). The "Berserk" narrative would make her a demon, and Miquella's "fate" would be "god like" and to decide the fate of the world. I don't know if FROM is going down this path or not. Melania says he's the "greatest/strongest of all Empyreans" so she would know what his true motives would be. In "Berserk" Griffith's "dream" was to rule the world. Trina would fit the bill for that part of Miquella. There's more to Ranni than we know. She did that whole ritual thing with Godwyn and the black knives and killed herself. This is why I think there's some connection with the GEQ there. It's thin, but I think we will find more about all of that in the DLC. The person in the middle of that fire in the new trailer looks like she is reading something, she's not holding a sword. Someone mentioned on the first trailer the painting of the old dude in yellow and pregnant woman looked funny. Similar to Rykard's painting pre-release. I think this also, I think someone is standing to the left of that dude but we won't know until the game comes out. I am weary of Miquella, regardless of any cut content. Last question is why show that follower in the cool armor and cover their right eye?? This was intentional on FROM's part. So yeah, I think our thoughts align, maybe we have some different DLC questions though. I don't know if I mentioned this, if you look up how they used to think basilisk dust (Godwyn), the blood of a red headed man (Messmer), and copper (primordial gold) made the purest gold (unalloyed). Anyways thanks for the video Ontos! :)
I do understand many people actively desire to weave the Gloam Eyed Queen lore directly into that scene. Maliketh defeating her and this scene clearly showing the RoD plucking/Rune of Life creation moment that it creates not just one but two critical contradictions. RoD needs to be 'separated-plucked' from the order for GEQ to be able to use it and enforce her will as the queen of death to begin with. Anyways, I'll make a video on the GEQ eventually. I still haven't fully recovered from my cold and do not feel so hot. After this, I'll focus on DLC related content and prepare for my Lets play and first impressions of the DLC. I hope you look forward to that playthrough. It will be fun ;))
Thats why we have to beat radan cause the carian fate of miquella(given to him by his father when his fate was conjoined with the fate of the moon as rannai's fate is connected to the golden order and two fingers)he needed to get rid of the tirina part of his fate as did ranni get rid of her golden part of her fate
Oh thats actually an interesting application of my insight. I haven't thought of it that way before. Thanks. I view Radahn being defeated by Melania as a requirement to get the ball rolling for Miquella's plans on the 'Eclipse'. Which is something I said way before Miyazaki had confirmed Radahn will be a required boss to access the DLC. I talked about it in my DLC Egyptian myth video I think
Btw where tf is torrent??? I was surprised when I saw miquella walking in the story trailer even though they showed him riding torrent in the first art of the DLC.
There's a few things I disagree with but overall still a pretty interesting take, refreshing to hear some novel ideas that are not too farfetched either. I will say though, the process by which you disqualify the involvement of the GEQ is not very convincing to me. Shadowbound beasts don't come after you become a god (Blaidd is around for Ranni, after all) so Maliketh could've been around at that time. Additionally, him not being present for this scene is meaningless. The scene we're witnessing is not anyone's defeat, but the aftermath of it. You're also very quick to disregard the "bag" that Marika is pulling from. Of course we can't be certain of anything at this point, but you have to agree it's at least visually reminiscent of Godskin. At any rate we can't say that it's just a random container, it's obviously pretty important in nature even if that nature is debatable. Marika's hand is bloodied when pulling from it, and we hear some squelching sounds, so it's clearly not insignificant.
Blaidd and Ranni situation is not a good evidence to support your claims as Ranni was an empyrean to begin with which is 'how' she was appointed that shadow beast by the GW. In this trailer scene, Marika is 'not even a god' let alone Elden Beast is not even the dominant theocracy. So the idea that, Godskin and GEQ was defeated 'at this moment' doesn't check out. Where is Maliketh whom was given by the Greater will (elden beast)? It was he, who defeated her after all. And this trailer scene is the beginning as Miquela says 'The kind Miquella speaks of the beginning' Maliketh was appointed to Marika 'after' this trailer scene, not before. So the GEQ wasn't defeated at that scene. That's a timeline contradiction. In fact, GEQ uses the Rune of death as the queen of death, no? Well how does she have access to this RoD BEFORE it was plucked from the Ring? The elden ring needs to be established first so that the RoD could be plucked and given to Melina first. I'll make a strong argument that Melina was the former status of GEQ in a separate episode. I hope you look forward to it and I'm glad this video added some nice angles to your explorations. Much love
@@Ontos99 Hmmm, your points seem to be based on the idea that the Elden Ring didn't exist before Marika's actions. Which... doesn't sound right to me. Placidusax was an Elden lord before Marika was around, and Elden Lord implies the Elden Ring existing. We have solid evidence of a different ER with a different shape from the one in Farum Azula. In that line of thought, the contradictions you raise don't exist. If the GEQ was the goddess of the previous age, then she had access to the Rune of Death because it was part of the ER, which would have been part of herself. It's also fine for her to be an "Empyrean chosen by the Fingers", because she would have been just that. It's actually a proper way of resolving a long standing question, because you can inverse the reasoning here and ask how did the GEQ have access to the Rune of Death back when she was at war with Marika if she WASN'T the Goddess at the time. From there, Marika arrives to the Lands Between (which would have been whole at that point), overthrows the current order, takes the ER from the GEQ's belly and becomes the new goddess. Her Order is predicated on the removal of Death, and that removal might also be exactly what separates the Lands Between in two parts, one Gold and one Shadow. There's not really any evidence that Marika created the Elden Ring or was the first incarnation of the Greater Will's Order. On the other hand, there's actually quite a few reasons to believe she wasn't.
@@TheRealTetro My Farum azula video explains my understanding of the origin timeline much better. Give it a watch if it interests you. The sound quality and script isnt as good as this one but gets the point accross
Bells are not associated with St Trina, but Miquella. That is why the bells swell with the music at the end of the dlc story trailer. Bells summon followers to church, and all of those followers summoned at the end of the dlc are Miquella's followers. St. Trina also spurns Omen, which is why the Omen are beset with nightmares when they sleep. St Trina and Miquella both forsake Omen in-game, which is why there are no Omen at the Haligtree.
It is not about 'bells' but the actual purpose and function of this spirit calling bell. If you think about it, it is like 'those who live in death' thematically speaking of course not literally. You call up a spirit to help you in the lands between. We know how much Miquella wants to 'put to rest' TWLID with his golden order spells. Within this context, of course that bell is made and crafted by Trina, not Miquella. Melina is the pro-Miquella character (whom gives us Miquella's torrent btw), not Ranni. Hope it makes sense. Much love
"Miquella's followers" might be a bit problematic. I do not think this is a "Band of the Hawk" situation, particularly since we have confirmation that there are ulterior motives involved for some of these characters. In fact, the way the text I'm referring to is worded indicates that no one but us is bound for a truthful search. All the others may "follow", but perhaps only we are meant to be guided. I can add this though: bells ring for anyone within their reach.
@@kimlee6643 I am not invoking Berzerk or the Band of the Hawk, only the ending of the dlc trailer where all of them are together in convocation. Visually, they are assembled in a meaningful way. Ulterior motives or not, From Software clearly indicates that they have been called together by Miquella, whatever their purposes may be.
@@Ontos99 no, that does not make sense since Miquella uses Royal Revenants to guard his treasure in Elphael. He had to use Spirit Calling bells to summon them, just as Wraith Callers do. Why else would Royal Revenants exist in Elphael? There are no Wraith Callers there. Miquella is a tinkerer. He makes needles, swords, and bells. In vers. 1.00 his Lily is said to be Electrum, and Electrum was called "white gold" in ancient times. It is a naturally occurring alloy of silver and gold. Electrum also translates to "amber", not unlike the Amber Egg. The kicker here is that the Amber Egg rebirths the juvenile scholars of Raya Lucaria, but that "rebirth is as SLEEP to them". St. Trina is what Miquella was fated to become, not what his alter ego was already. That is why Miyazaki says they are "two different existences". He was supposed to become St. Trina, but he never did, for St Trina is a DREAM, a VISION, not who he currently is. In vers 1.00 Miquella is called the Scion of the Vision. His Vision, or Dream, is as yet unknown, but if I had a guess, it likely has to do with the removal of Omen altogether from the Erdtree, which is why Omen are tormented by dreams and why wraith-fire infects their bodies.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 Regardless none of that allude to spirit calling bell to have been crafted by Miquella and not Trina. The connections with Ranni, spirits, sleep, dream are just too strong to attribute the craftsmenship of spirit calling bell to Miquella. If the item description said something like "this is imbued with the power of unalloyed gold" or something, Miquella's craftsmanship would be easier to infer but as it stands Trina can be the only real source of the spirit calling bell.
@@DankyKang96 did you comment that so you could feel “cool and edgy” or do you just have nothing better to do than trying to make people feel bad for having fun
I think Miquella will heal the shadow world, get rid of the veil Marika has put on it and combine it with the Lands Between. There will probably be some sorta sign that shadow realm is now 'integrated' into the lands between post final boss. As to what that sign might be, maybe something related to the Erdtree? I dunno
The cocoon with the golden strings looks like a Godskin swaddling cloth. And we know the Gloam Eyed Queen made these skin cloth swaddles to created her apostles in. And in the trailer, we see skinless bodies everywhere... We also see the hand has a bracelet that looks like Marika's in the concept art, yet the shape of the body holding the strings above is clearly male (no artist that wanted to unambiguously depict Marika there would use that shape)... So it's very obviously FROM are intentionally obfuscating the details, most likely because what we are lead to believe we are seeing (Marika ascending to godhood and brandishing the Elden Ring) is most likely not what is actually being depicted. I mean in the first place, the Elden Ring existed before Marika became god (Placidusax had it etc.) so it makes no sense to be connected with these strings.
The ring did, the Golden Order did not. It's depicting the beginning of her reign. "An affair from which Gold arose..." That and you can see side boob on her close up. :P
Ontos, I guess I should have told you I was a history major in a past life. I'll try and keep this short as I have to go to work, BUT, I have a homework assignment for you. Be sure to take notes. ;) "The Ancient Crucible" by Geoff Simons: "The region of the world that the ancient Greeks called Mesopotamia (the land 'between the rivers') and that we know today as Iraq was a fount of civilization- a veritable crucible, cockpit, cradle, womb of cultural progress...." "The geography of the great Tigris-Euphrates Valley, the land of the so called 'Twin Rivers' at the heart of Mesopotamia, manifestly favored the emergence of civilized communities...." Zoroastrianism (wiki): One of the world's oldest organized faiths, it is based on the teachings of the Avesta and the Iranian prophet Zoroaster. Zoroastrians exalt an uncreated and benevolent deity of wisdom, commonly referred to as "Ahura Mazda." Opposed to Ahura Mazda is "Angra Mainyu" who is personified as a destructive spirit and the adversary of all things good. They are twin brothers, with the former being the epitome of good and the latter being the epitome of evil. Zoroastranism combines a dualistic cosmology of good and evil with an eschatology predicting the ultimate triumph of Ahura Mazda over evil. In Zoroastrian tradition, dragons were simply known as azi, or serpents. They had important roles in religious texts. They were mostly demonic, evil creatures who swallowed horses and men and emitted poison. The Persian dragon looked a lot like the Chinese dragon, with a snake-like body. Except its body was surrounded by wisps of flame (Messmer reference). They were sometimes connected to rain and eclipses, much like other Asian dragons." (see dragons of Persia) Ok, so I can get crazy, crazy deep on you, but does that not sound like Elden Ring?? Now you know where they got the name "Lands Between" from, and if you look at the map it looks a lot like the area around that part of the Persian Gulf. :)
@@Ontos99 Deathbirds: "Instead of burying the corpse, Zoroastrians traditionally laid it out on a purpose built tower (dokhma or 'Tower of Silence') to be exposed to the sun and eaten by birds of prey such as vultures."
Good vid but for the record the Erdtree did exist before the Fire Giant war, there's lots of evidence for this. The text you are misinterpreting is that the AGE of the erdtree didn't begin until they won the war with the Fire Giants. That was the final battle of the golden order conquest and the start of its era, not the start of its existence. "In the begining, all was opposed to the Erdtree", as in during their conquest, the Erdtree was already in existence and the symbol of their forces.
No the Erdtree didnt exist before the war with the giants. Thats a reading that doesnt take Simithing 7 description into account. The "birth" line is undeniable. What you mean with the protection of the erdtree descr. is meaning "everything was opposed to the "erdtree reign" The erdtree ideaology if you will which was at the time represented by Marika and Gofdrey's troops. Before they became the dominant theocracy by defeating the stormlord and the fire giants. Before Marika became a god
Smithing Stone 8: "Stone used to smith a variety of armaments. Found in a polar region, it is semi-vitrified. ... Thought to have been used to hone the weapons of the champions of the War against the Giants at the birth of the Erdtree." The Erdtree didn't exist until Markia fought the Fire Giants. It was only after this war that age of the Erdtree began.
I wonder if she truly hates the omen, or she is just following a pact, with Messmer, maybe? Because she made the Elden ring before the war, so why wage it?
Marika has a bone to pick with crucibles because that was the civilization that preceded her order with the Erdtree. As much as their qualities were linked with divinity at the time, they can no longer be so highly regarded in the age of the golden order ;))
@@Ontos99 Well yeah but at the same time serpents are even more blasphemous than the omen, also Godwyn has a really good relation ship with dragons and Messmer has dragon symbolism too. So why are dragons part of the order and at the same time are part with the serpent (a symbol of the enemy of the Golden order). And we can see that the omen serve the golden order, yet the serpent is strictly against it. If she was truly against the omen the order would want to stamp them out like the serpent but they are "only" shunned, imprisoned? They wage wars with Mt. Gelmir in the end. But also there is this spirit in Fort Laiedd that is hiding from the Thorny, fire witches which have Messmer's symbolism with the impalement and fire, yet serve the Golden order? I feel there's too much over lapping, let's wait for the DLC. 🤔
@@cainjacob4137 I do not think Marika particularly likes Messmer. Which explains how he is banished in the shadow realm. However, Messmer is still guarding the realm by purging the shadow land of all things crucible nonetheless. Making sure what his mother has repressed at the birth of her order, stays repressed. All hail for the loyal pro-america Messmer, the hero.
Ekhem, why are you still having 1.5K subs. And dont you dare to go into alchemy with explanation. Not this time xdd. Bro, WHYYYYY!??! ... Damn... golden lore channel, apparently eternal child (considering growing rate is basically 0). Constantly prowing main ones wrong and ignorant. Is it a some sort of subtle role play of you? Change channel name to Miquella or sth... (Miquella The Ontos? XDDD, imagine you would finally start to grow coincidentally after the DLC gets released. LMAO)
I'm cursed with eternal youth. The channel subscription has hit its peak, unfortunately ;)) On a serious note, I don't do this for the views. But thank you for this nice comment. I'll think about the name change 'Miquella, the Ontos' but it just sounds so cringe haha
Your thumbnails are really weird.. lack an identity and pattern. I get that it’s a pain in the ass to even make one, however it’s all about simplicity.
@@Ontos99 Up to you. Based on the amount of vids you’ve made and how large the videos are = I think you should have more subscribers and views, but the thumbnails are holding you back. Putting Miyazaki on the thumb for example implies its a 1 on 1 interview with him which the video is not about.
@@Sorrus-B4lyfe My clickthrough rate is not low at all. In fact Miyazaki thumbnails get the highest views RUclips algorithm is very complicated and there are various reasons why a video gets low impressions. Its something about a channel's reach and audience which is not quite strong in my case. I'll continue to make videos. Thank you for your recommendations and insight!
You aren’t the best at lore are you? I won’t bring up everything wrong with the video but one is the fact that item descriptions are written from the point of view of the Golden Order so we can’t quite trust the description saying she was defeated by maliketh and also people get their shadow bound beast when they become empyreans. Not when they become gods.
Ontos called me an A-Marikan psycho, I am s h a t t e r e d But you're right, dead GEQ pre-god-Marika doesn't fit with the timeline because there's no Maliketh. Well, back to not knowingv WTF to think 🥲
![Elden Ring's Metaphysics | Duality & Nonduality [Lore Analysis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2KC7ijLexto/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow. This is some top tier Elden Ring analysis. I've watched 100s of hours of ER lore and theories since the first trailer in 2021.
This is the first I've heard of your channel. And if your other ER vids are of similar quality, it's crazy that the views aren't higher.
Liked and shared. Keep up the good work.
Made my day to read this. Thank you
Please watch my 'Elden Ring's Metaphysics' video and let me know your thoughts
@@Ontos99 you got it. Will do
I was watching with captions on, and the captions say "Mesmer is very much pro America" and for a moment there I thought HUH
Even with perfect pronunciation, RUclips is 'biased' I say ;))
Vote Messmer 2024 to make Queen 'Murica great again
Huh 🤔😏
'murica #1
I already watch you but I came here after watching ziostorm’s reaction to this video, awesome job and I’m glad you’re getting the attention you deserve
Thank you so much
Excellent video Ontos! You did such a great job catching much of the visual symbolism. As well as your deduction to where the Gloam Eyed Queen's location is within the timeline, I agree with you. Though, I still think you and many others are going to have to apologize to Marika when we learn exactly why she did all of this, and that she might not be the villain she is made out to be. For example: Messmer's Purge was without Grace, which is linked to Marika and the Erdtree, so perhaps the relationship between Messmer and Marika isn't so clear cut. That is all to say JUSTICE FOR MARIKA!
Another pro-Amarika voter joins the cult of Messmer!
Thank you Jack. This video is partly possible because of your footage, insights and contributions throughout.
Much love
Thank you for making this! I am very excited for the DLC....but even more now because I have more understanding of the lore. Well done!
You’ve done it again 🏆 probably my favorite lore channel right now for sure
Thank you. Im honoured to hear that
Excellent analysis! I really appreciate how you analyzed the location of lilies. Very very intriguing
Thanks, George! Happy it added some new angle to your explorations
If Miquella is Torrent's former master, then Torrent choosing us means Miquella wanted a Tarnished who can finish the job he couldn't.
Another legendary video dropped by the GOAT
Gold and silver logo of DLC now makes more sense. Oh we gonna choose between Miquella and st Trina, good and bad endings
An interesting idea I've not considered before. Choosing a side...hmmm
Ez sub. Thanks for making this grest points and theories. Love to see some nice speculation like making the anti death rune.
First up, the Miquella cut content quote makes me think the division of the Land of Shadows from the Lands Between was caused by Miquella to end conflict between the residents their and those in the Lands Between.
Second, that “satchel of cloth” I think is likely an eye like that of something similar what the two living corpses of Godwyn.
Third, I enjoyed it.
Came from Ziostorm. Great video and interesting points, well presented. Cheers from Germany
Thank you. Love to Germany
Do you think that when we enter the shadow realm we will lose our levels, just like Miquella lost his strength, Grace and fate? Do you think that might be how the new level up system might work with us all starting at zero in the new system.
It is possible and thats a very interesting and nice interpretation
That would be awesome, but people would be so pissed lol.
"And so too was Shadow born" I think could still refer to the Rune of Death as well, let me explain how:
Why does it have two names in the first place even? I think Destined Death always existed as a force in the world, but maybe since life and death were so intertwined together it didn't exist as an individual Rune.
So in that sense plucking Destined Death out of the Order and creating the Rune of Death could be the same thing.
If the Rune was an unintended creation it also better explains why it wasn't sealed immediately and why the GEQ was able to claim it.
Aside from that I agree with pretty much everything in the video, and I especially like the mention of the Crucible Knight fighting Beastmen in Farum Azula.
I still find the idea of Miquella's fate becoming a person confusing but I like the connection to the Nox/Numen; one thing to note is that Melina also seems to use sleep magic on us before burning herself.
I need to see the purple myst tho. Melina doesn't do that before the forge. That's the trina giveaway.
Melina's goals are more aligned with the other self actually. Miquella. She gives us his 'torrent' after all. Very much pro-Golden order.
You need more recognition my brotha you have some of the best an deepest takes I’ve seen an believe me I seen a lot but none are as deep an Consistent as your lore
Thank you. Im happy with my small little community of great people like you who enjoy the videos.
Im trying to give my A game to each video regardless of the views or reach. Im enjoying the sheer process of making videos. So Im definitely happy and really excited to start my lets play when the dlc rolls around
Really good theory. Can't wait for DLC!
Showing love, heard about this video from Ziostorm's channel 🖤
Thank you!
came over from Ziostorm, great vid!
Thank you!!
Heeeey, cool theory! Thanks for finding some beautiful details!
im leaning towards Miquella is supposed to mirror Marika.
that maybe if we knew more about marikas age we'd see her actions as more understandable.
I think he was able to piece together what she did to come to power and hes trying to do the same thing himself.
I think their motivations can be both pure and selfish.
Miquella can love everyone and have pure intentions and also bring about death and despair.
more duality type stuff.
The gloam eyed queen so far linked to destined death and skinning gods but is also tied to motherly imagery. A swaddling cloth and newborn apostles.
We like to say Marika is shattering the ring and radagon is fixing it. But it works just as well they are each doing both.
Radagon is fixing the ring and shattering it at the same time.
And then from a cinematic perspective. The DLC promo material references Miquella directly. So its supposed to a be central to the plot of the DLC. Thats not speculation.
But the story trailer starts with Marikas origin. And we know how her story ends already. Miyazaki already said this doesnt effect the endings.
So from a writing perspective its showing us Marika in the trailer is to tell us more about Miquella.
the alternative is its just fan service trickling us imagery they know we want to see to tease us.
But if we believe these are deliberately crafted its showing us Marika to tell us more about Miquella.
So that leads me to if we see Marika ascending to Godhood in the trailer, thats probably what Miquella is trying to do as well.
"I think their motivations can be both pure and selfish." This is where I am torn because I just don't see any of the demi-gods trying to help anyone. The "Berserk/Griffith" spin on the story arc makes me think ultimately we will fight Miquella. Maybe that's what FROM wants us to think. ;)
@@raymondcaswell5622 help in a world without death seems especially subjective.
Rykard is weird and gross and selfish but also seems to be providing a needed service. feeding yourself to the giant man snake isnt really all that different than erd tree burial.
IDK what your take on radahn is. whatever it is, i mean, hes fighting for something.
Im pretty sure Morgott thinks hes doing the right thing.
I honestly dont know much about mohg, but like, arent the albinaurics there by choice? Doesnt he wish to build a kingdom.? He seems to offer something to the weak, doomed, and dejected.
and ranni sees what the two fingers have done and want to free TLB of their influence.
My guess is even after the DLC and we learn more and have sorted through it that it will all still be debatable.
I’m just calling it now, St.Trina is the outer god of sleep/dreams & because destined death was sealed making death non existent, meaning the ‘dead’ are technically in an eternal slumber/dream.. just like miquella was, St.Trina is now the outer god of the ‘dead’ as well, which includes Godwyn.
I think the line in the trailer saying Miquella abandoned his faith while St.Trina is falling, is referring to miquella removing St.Trina’s influence over him via the unalloyed needle, the needle miquella made to remove the influence of an outer god, beating the eternal slumber this giving himself a true death. This is why he is glowing, this is why he is there in the land of shadows, to give Godwyn a true death, by removing St.Trina’s influence.
Maybe the only way Miquella could save Godwyn from the eternal slumber/The land of shadows AKA the dreamworld is by removing the influence of outer god of sleep/dreams, St.Trina, giving him a true death like himself.
St.Trina being the outer god of the dead that are in an eternal slumber, explains how miquella was eternally a child & in an eternal slumber & connected to St.Trina.. Miquella died as a child after the sealing of destined death. Him dying as a child would of put him into an eternal slumber thus eternally preserving his youth as a child & placing him under the influence of St.Trina; To me it explains all 3 mysteries of Miquela perfectly.
Just a personal theory of mine.
This dlc might explain the morgot and mohg shackles in game too
Anyone else notice that the iconic statues of Marika and Radagon depict them as physically representing the runes of Life and Death? Both are in a T pose, with Marika’s arms stretching over here head, while Radagon’s arms are angled slightly down, mirroring Destined Death. His red hair then would be not from fire giant lineage, but from a connection to Death itself. Given Marika’s seeemingly strawberry blonde hair in the trailer (it’s hard to tell whether the red tint is due to the lighting or not, but the fact this is ambiguous in the first place leads me to suspect Marika’s golden hair previously had a red hue).
The lattice symbol typically thought of as Radagon’s elden rune is actually a rune or seal used to...well, seal things. We see the sorcerers employ such a seal both at Rays Lucaria and in the Sellia crystal tunnels. It’s just as likely that this seal magic was taught to Radagon by the Carians as it was the other way around, as it’s generally assumed to be. Since rejoining Marika, Radagon’s knowledge of spells fused with Marika, and by extension the golden god of the lands between (the elden ring/beast/erdtree). Hence the nigh-unbreakable thorn seal containing Marika/Radagon, who have both essentially lost any semblance of themselves and exist now as little more than a husk to be piloted by the Elden Beast. It’s why Radagon, champion of sorcery and incantation, who founded an entire school of religious philosophical scholarship based upon the fusion of both, only uses Golden magic. Magic seen employed by no one but the Elden Beast.
Tangent aside, I don’t think you are correct about your GEQ timeline, as it seems you are forgetting a core piece of the relevant lore. Namely, that the Black Flame of the Godskins drew power from the time of Death. Now, it’s possible that when Marika sealed it away at the founding of the golden order, she just chucked it in her closest snd called it a day, allowing for it to be stolen by the GEQ at a later time. However, there is nothing that suggests this, and i can’t personally think of a way that this version of events “fits” the way it should.
What makes more sense to me is that GEQ and pre-Erdtree Marika were contemporaries and rivals of some sort for godhood. For reasons too numerous to get into in an already far too long yt comment, I feel pretty confident saying that Marika and GEQ were/are related, and that at least one meaning behind the trailer’s mention of betrayal is Marika betraying her family in order to achieve godhood. I think that this betrayal referenced likely will end up referring to a few things, as Marika has done her fair share of betrayals in her time.
Marika, and indeed other Empyreans, are granted a shadow while still Empyrean, or simply candidates in line to the throne of godhood. So Malekith was in all likelihood already serving Marika prior to the Golden Order, and indeed needs to have been. His name literally means death of the gods, and the era of recognized and accepted polytheism ended with the Golden Order.
I think that the godskins, who sought the death of the gods, the old serpent cult of Gelmir (including the original versions of the Pagans, whose scant modern remains include the dancers in the windmill village), who sought the death of the gods, and Marika were, at one point, allied against some pantheon of old gods. Perhaps seeking an age without lords or something, honestly the potential motivations are myriad. At some point, Marika is seduced by the power of godhood or Grace or some other connected concept, and betrays those she fought with, and ascends to godhood, alone.
This act is what ultimately set the current events in motion, this fateful decision to embrace the cosmic power of gold.
What if:
St Trina and the Gloam-Eyed queen are shadow counterparts to Miquella and Marika.
Miquella seeks to unite himself with his shadow counter part to achieve the Jungian self and also to do the same with the entirety of the lands between by seeking to reunite the lands between with the realm of shadow.
The shadows are everything rejected by Marika and the golden order and exists in the Shadow realm. Marika somehow managed to create the shadow realm to separate the lands between from all the things she deems bad to her golden order. St Trina and the Gloam-Eyed queen were unintentional results of this separation.
The entire DLC is about achieving the Jungian self.
Also unrelated to the DLC, maybe after all this time, after the death of Godwin Marika realises how fragile and hopeless her golden order really is and just gives up and lets some else be in charge, which is the basis for tanished crusade to become elden lord. She decided that the best candidates would be people completely separate from her imperfect order but she was still racist and didn't like the moon, so no nox or numen and had to be a human, hence the tarnished she from the lands between long ago.
what do u guys think is next after this dlc ? sekiro 2 or dark souls 4 ? or just an entirely new concept???
New Ip and then Elden Ring 2
@@Ontos99 I'm very excited for a new IP, but with the DLC, I think I've had enough of Elden Ring. Yes, it's the best game I've ever played, but I don't think they will add much if they decide to do Elden Ring 2. To be honest, some people think that 'Shadow of the Erdtree' is somewhat the closest thing to Elden Ring 2.
Really nice catch that she's making the "Rune of Life" pose
Marika probably would have Maliketh before becoming a god, though, as Ranni has Blaidd when she's still just a candidate as emperyean
Becoming a god and being an empyrean are not separate events in this case nor is this like a Ranni situation. Greater will hasnt taken shape as the elden ring to begin with before Marika birthed the erdtree and her golden order becoming the visions vessel. You dont become an empyrean before being a god.
Empyrean are gods to forge an order. That status was given to Marika by the Greater when she embodied the elden ring by being vision's vessel. From this point onwards, Marika's offsprings become empyreans directly due to genetic heritage gets appointed by GW's fingers. But I don't think that is possible before they embodied the laws of nature yet.
Furthermore, RoD needs to be plucked from the ring to begin with for GEQ to be able to physically wield it in the first place which makes her timeline post Golden order. As thats when the Rod was plucked. Upon its creation.
Much love
@@Ontos99 Ontos: "You dont become an empyrean before being a god." War Counselor Iji: "The Two Fingers gave Blaidd to Lady Ranni, as a faithful follower...." Ranni the Witch: "Which is when I received Blaidd. In the form of a vassal tailored for an Empyrean." Ranni: "Each of us was chosen by our own Two Fingers, as a candidate to succeed Queen Marika, to become the new god of the coming age." This is where we would disagree because of Ranni and Blaidd. My only question regarding shadows in general is where are Miquella's and Malenia's?? So back to the point of this. Ok, so my "mark of the Empyrean" theory (which I know is right) is that all the Empyreans have that mark on their left eye. I know the Remembrance of Rot says they have to born of a single god....but if that were truly the only way then all of the other demi-god's would be Empyreans as well. So they are "chosen" by the two fingers and the seal is that mark on their left eye. This is why the game goes out if it's way to hide those so much. So the Empyreans are chosen by the Two Fingers, and then the Empyreans basically duke it out to become the ruler of the next age...at the eclipse ceremony. Maliketh was the first shadow, but Marika had to have him around prior to that scene in the story trailer. I am hoping the DLC gives us more background on that. Saying that, I do not think the GEQ is the pregnant figure Marika is pulling the strands from. I do think it's the person in the painting standing next to the old dude. I do think Messmer is inside of that belly also. The trailer is very clear, shadow was born at the same time. So maybe when Marika pulled those strands, that is the child's "grace" and Messmer was born cursed as a result. This is why he considers Marika to be his "mother." She may or may not have birthed him, but she is still the reason he exists. You do see a "scar" on the bottom of the belly for like 2 seconds in that scene so it's hard to say what happened there without more info. So it is possible that Maliketh "defeated" the GEQ at that point but it doesn't make sense. Under Marika, there was no "destined death" because it was sealed away in Maliketh. The Erdtree did not exist at that point. When you die, your spirit goes back to the Erdtree. Finger Reader Enia: "A remembrance of gold has found its way into your possession. Demigods, and even the greater of the champions, are hewn by the Erdtree upon their end, into remembrances." In order for Melina to be the "spirit" or something similar of the GEQ then that would mean she would have had to get sucked back into the Erdtree. Ok, it just didn't exist at that point. Personally, I think the GEQ would be a perfect start for Elden Ring II. I DO think the figure we see in the middle of the burning city reading that scroll IS the GEQ. Anyway, I'll stop here again. :)
There are a few ways I can answer this comment.
In my eyes, these concepts of 'empyrean' and 'Marika's godhood' starts with the age of the Erdtree.
Greater will, fingers and the Elden beast wasn't even established in the slightest before the birth of the erdtree. Thats's how Marika as a Numen becomes a god where Ranni afterwards is an empyrean by her genetic heritage.
Making the same argument for Marika is problematic because Marika needs to establish the Greater will first as its avatar. That concept doesn't even exist as alluded to with the protection of the Erdtree description.
Furthermore, GEQ uses the Rune of death to kill gods. RoD was only plucked from the ring and separated in Golden order's birth. How would you posit GEQ to wield destined death pre-Erdtree and Golden order as it was a part of the laws of nature and wasn't yet separated? (or plucked as the lore goes)
@@raymondcaswell5622 In my eyes, the sheer phrase of 'being an empyrean' means you are of divinity. Ranni is a demigod already. She IS a god. Demigod merely refers to their children status of Marika. And empyrean means they are gods that can forge a new order and can replace Marika. So saying Marika could be an empyrean 'before' the Erdtree's birth is problematic in my eyes. Marika needs to be the vision's vessel first by embodying the elden ring. Thats how she becomes a god and attains the empyrean status in the first place. Thanks to the greater will.
But again, I can see a different reading here. The GEQ and rune of death plucking timeline is more important and critical to the argument
@@raymondcaswell5622 Basically I dont think Fingers existed before the Erdtree's birth. Erdtree is one of the Greater will's manifestations and fingers are its envoys. Saying Fingers existed before the Erdtree is inconsistent logic for me.
Not entirely impossible but doesn't sound too believable for me.
Ontos, just read this in an article and thought you would very much like it: "Another interesting thing to note is that there is a roar in the background as well when Marika's hair is blown away with the wind from the portal, which many believe could also be the birth of Maliketh. This, in fact, resonates quite well with the narration during the clip, which states "an affair from which Gold arose, and so too was Shadow born." That's your argument right there.
That's an interesting interpretation I haven't thought about haha Thanks for telling me about it, Raymond ;))
Oh, and I get what you are saying here: "When the Rune of Death was plucked from the Elden Ring, and confined, the Golden Order was created, with Queen Marika as its one true god." So that dead maybe pregnant person in the trailer can't possibly be the GEQ as it wasn't until Marika "plucked" the RoD was that it was possible for the GEQ to wield it. Either way, I would agree that it's not the GEQ.
@@raymondcaswell5622 Yes. Otherwise how would GEQ wield the power of the destined death to kill gods? We know that the sheer process of plucking or 'shattering the shards' enable the individual to use its power (no longer connected to the nexus of the elden ring). This is precisely how the demigods were tainted by its strengths and became shardbearers.
The insight is that the very same mechanic applies to Gloam Eyed Queen as well. She needs the Rune of Death to be 'plucked' from the elden ring FIRST to be able to utilize and exert its will on the world. This puts it 'post Golden order' timeline.
Until Maliketh defeats her and confines the DD within his blade. Empyreans that 'forge a new order' might be the modus operandi of Greater will (to balance the dynamics of the realm) but Marika who desires an eternal realm does not want direct competition which is why Maliketh defeated GEQ who was the former empyrean status of Melina.
I'll explain and give my arguments for why I think GEQ was the former empyrean status of Melina in another video. It will probably happen well after the DLC releases and I roll the credits on it.
I'll have to go 'no youtube' mode until I finish the game. I'll only share my let's play videos on the channel. So, lore videos will have to wait a bit ;)))
@@raymondcaswell5622 I'm currently working on my boss tier list video. It will be epic! I hope you enjoy it Raymond.
@@Ontos99 When I'm playing I won't be doing this too much lol. I'll put the basics together but the deep micro analysis stuff we're doing now won't happen for a bit. I don't know if it's "post Golden Order" because that would put the world post shattering. Something to think about.
love the messmer drawing
Thank you. It was hard to draw
Very great video. The timeline makes a lot of sense. Thank you! Looking forward to your next video 🫶
Your sister in arms ⚔️
Yes. The timeline is very important. I'm happy to hear you got my back ;))
This doesn't relate to the topic, but it occurred to me, as the vid was paused and I was thinking, if bosses in the DLC will produce remembrances in the same fashion. That is, if these "shadow" aspects were "hewn into the Erdtree" in the same way, or if they will be evidence of a fundamental separation, not unlike some fundamental aspect that will supposedly empower us within that realm, if we so choose.
As a side-note though: "in pursuit of something greater" is a really intriguing statement, I hadn't noticed that until now. This implies that Miquella understood the core aspects that pertain to perhaps both the Golden Order status quo and the history before it, and thus sacrificed his ordained "fate" to look elsewhere for, uh, a "resolution", perhaps.
Yes that last idea you've alluded to is also something that I might allude to at the end of the video ;))
It is an interesting idea. That depends on the nature of the bosses and whether they are capable of inheriting a great rune in the shadow realm to begin with. Remember Miquella is an exception to the rule as he arrived to this land from LB post shattering.
It is unknown if Messmer actually inherited a great rune post shattering. I can actually see someone making an argument against it easily after this trailer. I can explain why but it would take a long time.
Dont get me wrong. You don't need to inherit a rune to have a remembrance per se. So the idea you propose is not challenged here but someone can definitely make the argument demigods of marika in this shadow land don't inherit a great rune.
Hey Ontos I love your art, I also draw not as good as you but one day when I post my first drawing I’d Like for you to tell me on how to improve on it or what to fix. Also great video as usual ❤️
Sure. I can give you tips and tricks anytime you want
@@Ontos99 Thank You so much king you have no idea how much I appreciate it 🙏
Love it ❤ great work!
Great job here. You're the first I've heard say that the Erdtree didn't exist before the giants. Timeline is crazy
Well I said that countless times in my previous videos.
Smithing stone 7, might just be the single most underrated but important item description to understand the origin timeline of elden ring.
I was arguing for this ever since I released my Farum Azula video.
BRO I LOVE YOU ALL YOUR VIDEOS IS PERFECT
Wasn’t maliketh given to marika when she was an empyrean similar to blaidd was to ranni? In malikeths remembrance says he was a shadow born beast given to his empyrean meaning marika was not yet a god when maliketh was given to him.
I suspect, there is an ongoing misunderstanding of the Golden Order and the Destined Death.
The Golden Order is the specific state of the Elden Ring, or the specific set of natural laws, chosen by Marika. "An epoch glistening with life", as she puts it.
The Destined Death is what Marika considers a fundamental flaw of the previous world order. A natural law that prevents life from shining.
So what is the world desired by Marika? In her own words:
"Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord."
"Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices."
"Put the Giants to the sword"
Even we, the Tarnished, are called to return to the Lands Between and wage war, "because how else a Lord can be born"?
Judging by this, Marika doesn't appear to be terrified by a concept of death.
The Destined Death and a death are separate concepts.
A death is a natural part of the cycle of life. Stones never die, but they also aren't "glistening with life". As a monotheistic goddess of life, Marika has to accept (and does) a concept of death.
And people are correct when they say: "an infinite life is unsustainable and unrealistic". But that's not what the Golden Order stands for.
But Marika wasn't completely indifferent. Gideon tell us: "I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form. [..] Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified."
It's also assumed that Marika mourned Godwyn. We can't confirm this, but other characters can believe it to be true.
So, what's special about these deaths? These are cases where a great potential is wasted (or assumed to be wasted). In other words, these lives never came to full fruition.
That's what gets to Marika's guts, and it can be a concept represented by the Destined Death.
It explains why the Destined Death is able to kill a god. Gods aren't mortal, but if you cut their destiny before it fully unfolds... it may do the trick.
There's one more problem, which allegedly forced Marika to shatter the Elden Ring. The undeath of Godwyn the Golden.
Undeath prevents deaths from creating a new life. It breaks the cycle of life and the Golden Order.
That's not how Marika wants to immortalize great heroes of the Golden Order. They should continue their existance as rememberances, enriching the collective memory of the people. It's their great achievements and legacy that were meant to be immortalized by the Golden Order.
Let's summarize it.
The Destined Death prevents one from reaching their full potential.
Marika's rejection of the Destined Death is probably rooted in some of her past experiences in Lands of Shadow.
Unlike Miquella with his ability to control minds of others, Marika stands for life as it is. Her gifts come with no strings attached. She is fine with our personal desires, as long as they lead to progress, and won't interrupt the cycle of life.
Marika does not seek an infinite power and endless reign for herself. It's more like she sees the value of life in hardship. The Golden Order is perfect for champions like Godfrey, but it feels evil and oppressive to those who exist to rot alive.
As for Ranni... she just wants to sell the world to her funny moon god. When she escapes immediately, you know she did something really 'nice' to the world.
Excellent analysis, you cooked again Ontos. I appreciate the counter against the claim that the cinematic’s corpse is the GEQ, the timeline of events makes more sense here than in many other videos
Thank you. I'm happy you enjoyed it!
@@Ontos99
On an unrelated note, do you still align with the belief that the Twinbird will make some sort of appearance?
I wanted to mention a couple of subtle details that reinforce that idea, like one of the new Elden Ring tweets mentioning an umbra (meaning an Eclipse does exist, or something akin to one). Deathbirds are imitated by the same Mausoleum Knights who also have Eclipse iconography, so it’s not farfetched to assume that Deathbirds return in some capacity - especially the first DLC trailer where we see a set of black wings for armor. And since the DLC is about the upheaval of existing ancient cultures, it would only make sense. CFA has depictions for this envoy everywhere, and I doubt it’s a generic asset since the very first time you spawn there you see a corpse facing one of its murals - environmental storytelling that directly addresses the relief. I believe there’s more to this group that’s been overlooked, Miyazaki mentioned the elaboration and completion of groups so you never know
@@giantenemyfool If not Twinbird, I'm still confident that a different vessel beast was the representation of this 'crucible realm' prior and as the protection of the erdtree states 'it (erdtree and the greater will) became the embodiment of order' after war and struggle.
Much love. I can't wait to learn more soon
@@giantenemyfool But just to be clear, Twinbird is still the highest likelihood and possibility UNLESS Miyazaki is cooking to introduce a pure dragon based outer god specific to the DLC relating to Placi's fled god.
@@giantenemyfool I think we will see the Twin bird for sure. They are keepers of fire (ghost flame) prior to the Erdtree. The Twin bird is the mother of the Death birds. Not to mention it's likeness is all over Faram Azula.
Very well done! Great video!
I'm happy you enjoyed it ;))
Hey Ontos, after doing some research (mostly Berserk) I genuinely think I know how the DLC is going to go down. The eclipse event only happens every 1000 years, except that Radahn delayed this last one with his power over the stars, which is why he needs to die. “Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless... I will never set my eyes upon it now... Your divine Haligtree..” The “it” the ghost is referring to is the “Incarnation Ceremony” where Miquella transforms into a god and takes up the rule of the “Land Betweens.” What we are witnessing in the latest SotE story video is the last time this ceremony happened. Marika is literally walking across the dead bodies of the people she “sacrificed” for her to become a god. The piled bodies are also a “symbol” of what she had to do to reach her goal. Who that pregnant person is she pulls the gold strands from, we don’t know yet. That sequence *could* have been a dream, possibly shared from Trina, or just some sort of vision. Anyway, we do know that Messmer was born from “corruption” and that he is likely Marika’s. What “seduction and betrayal” and we don’t know yet, but we do know that Marika is the protagonist and she slept with someone is some fashion. Messmer “appeared as a misshapen fetus with a reddened left eye……It was hairless and had an infantile face with a tumorous bump on its forehead that covered its right eye” and is “evil nature, but would nevertheless maintain a kindred bond with its parents.” “The Demon Child appeared almost exclusively at night, but during the day manifested in a shadowy area to avoid the sun.” Again, we are not sure who the father is yet or the circumstances that he exists. Messmer is NOT and Empyrean….I repeat NOT an Empyrean, but he is a demi-god.
Moving forward, Miquella is an Empyrean. He has the mark of an Empyrean on this left eye. Only Empyreans can be gods. Empyreans are “…said to grant one the world in exchange for the owner's flesh and blood” and “…will offer a precious sacrifice in exchange for being reborn” as a god because of “coming to terms with who he truly is.” In this case it would be his little band at the end of the SotE story video. His followers, or “apostles,” are physically branded for sacrifice and are “….someone close and important to the summoner, are then offered to creatures of the darkness and ritualistically murdered.” This is why I believe we are not seeing Miquella’s followers faces and why the one we do see covers the right side of their face. They are all going to the “Tower of Conviction” in the Land of Shadow to have this ceremony. This ceremony was the exact same one Marika did when she became a god, which is what we are seeing in the beginning of the story trailer. Mequilla realizes his “fate” (which is Empyrean, not Trina) and sacrifices his peeps, and becomes “reborn.”
Anyway, there’s TONS more here including on Messmer and Trina (Danan), but this is getting obsessive, lol. I think you’re 100% right on Trina, and I don’t think she will be evil after all. Get ready to fight Mequilla as Griffith. I’m sure you know all of this already though.
Yes great insights. You really went deep ;)) As expected of my viewers!!
@@Ontos99 I could went so MUCH deeper lol, but I had to stop somewhere. :)
can't wait to watch this! Thanks Ontos! ❤
after watching this I'm a bit confused on if St Trina will be a disconnected character since Miquella abandoned her. Could it be like the Moonlight Child from Berserk where they swap every so often? Or would it be a physical disconnect like Radagon and Marika before they conjoined?
@@echohazmat8759 They will initially appear separated like Radagon and Marika imo.
We might see another unification at the very end. The unification of Golden order (Miquella) and Carians (Trina) - The gold & the Silver. Just like how Radagon (Gold/Fire giant Origins) conjoined with Marika (Silver/Numen Origins)
hope this helps and answers your question
The name "St. Trina" already suggests a trinity so Melina doesnt need to be st. Trina to be an alter ego of Miquella
Wait, Melina doesn't necessarily disappear entirely after (re)burning in the Forge. She seems to survive burning in the Frenzied Flame, so, I wouldn't cross her being part of the DLC because of a conflict in narrative.
But let's think about this realistically. Miyazaki won't create a DLC for people who got the frenzy flame ending. Most people got the Melina sacrifice ending. Trina is a VERY important part of this DLC.
So the idea that Melina is St. Trina is not possible from a purely business and financial standpoint. Let alone the idea (at least in my understanding) doesn't work out nearly as well from a lore perspective to begin with.
Miyazaki is not gonna force 90% of people to replay the game just because they 'burned the erdtree and sacrificed Melina'
Does that make sense?
@@Ontos99 oh I absolutely agree, but it's a lot of fun to leave room for all possibilities! I happen to disagree with at least half of what I watch on YT but it's so much fun and entertaining. If half of creators refrained from putting themselves out there there would be way less than half the discussion!
Btw you make great content, I love it 👌
There are no Omen at the Haligtree. There are Kindred, Crystallians, Royal Revenants, Misbegotten, Miranda flowers, Battle Mages, Spirit Caller Snails, zombies, Haligtree knights, and Cleanrot Knights, but no Omen whatsoever. How can you conclude that Miquella wanted his Haligtree to be a sanctuary for Omen when none are sheltered there?
Yes. I'd still conclude that. Omens are currently locked up immediately after birth within the sewers under the Golden order's strict regimes.
Keep that in mind. I'm sure Miquella is very sympathetic to omens. That's obvious if you analyze his other lore related items and create a worldview for him
@@Ontos99 there are Omen free around Leyndell and elsewhere in game. I think their exclusion belies the notion that Miquella sympathizes with them. St. Trina also tortures the Omen with nightmares. Personally, I think the Omen horns are necessary for growing up unto being a fertile person (puberty via the cornicello fertility symbol) and the reason Miquella cannot grow to adulthood is because he is "unalloyed" or devoid of the Crucible. This might be why he is going to the Shadowlands.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 Miquella creates a safe haven for people who are interested. He doesn't force the Omens to stay in his Haligtree.
I can 'almost' guarantee you Miquella doesn't have an inherent problem with omens and actually has sympathy for them. Just like he alludes to with the DLC cut content 'All things will flourish, whether graceful or malign'
@@Ontos99 I suppose we shall see.
The Haligtree is a place venerated by the Albinaurics, yet you could argue that there are no Albinaurics present there either (Loretta isn’t hard-confirmed to be an albinauric, but it’s suggested). The place is deliberately kept well-hidden, so I wouldn’t be surprised if no refugee Omen ever found their way in. The only Omen I can think of with knowledge of the place is Mohg, who stole Miquella from the Haligtree
Our thoughts align obviously, great job! Most of those "other" theories you mention are just click-bait anyways (God skins, GEQ, Melina). It's funny because the things you mention about Ranni and Trina are the same questions I have. Yes, Messmer is "purging" the freaks and oddities. Marika is really THE antagonist in Elden Ring. To me, she is very "Hilter" like. The Golden Order isn't so "golden." Now where my thoughts take me down other paths, is the "Berserk" part of this. What motives are Miquella's? The trailer says he "abandoned his fate" and that was Trina obviously. She's also "purple" which has been used as the color of death in Elden Ring (opposite of gold). The "Berserk" narrative would make her a demon, and Miquella's "fate" would be "god like" and to decide the fate of the world. I don't know if FROM is going down this path or not. Melania says he's the "greatest/strongest of all Empyreans" so she would know what his true motives would be. In "Berserk" Griffith's "dream" was to rule the world. Trina would fit the bill for that part of Miquella. There's more to Ranni than we know. She did that whole ritual thing with Godwyn and the black knives and killed herself. This is why I think there's some connection with the GEQ there. It's thin, but I think we will find more about all of that in the DLC. The person in the middle of that fire in the new trailer looks like she is reading something, she's not holding a sword. Someone mentioned on the first trailer the painting of the old dude in yellow and pregnant woman looked funny. Similar to Rykard's painting pre-release. I think this also, I think someone is standing to the left of that dude but we won't know until the game comes out. I am weary of Miquella, regardless of any cut content. Last question is why show that follower in the cool armor and cover their right eye?? This was intentional on FROM's part. So yeah, I think our thoughts align, maybe we have some different DLC questions though. I don't know if I mentioned this, if you look up how they used to think basilisk dust (Godwyn), the blood of a red headed man (Messmer), and copper (primordial gold) made the purest gold (unalloyed). Anyways thanks for the video Ontos! :)
I do understand many people actively desire to weave the Gloam Eyed Queen lore directly into that scene.
Maliketh defeating her and this scene clearly showing the RoD plucking/Rune of Life creation moment that it creates not just one but two critical contradictions.
RoD needs to be 'separated-plucked' from the order for GEQ to be able to use it and enforce her will as the queen of death to begin with.
Anyways, I'll make a video on the GEQ eventually. I still haven't fully recovered from my cold and do not feel so hot. After this, I'll focus on DLC related content and prepare for my Lets play and first impressions of the DLC.
I hope you look forward to that playthrough. It will be fun ;))
Glad to know Messmeer is a true American
Thats why we have to beat radan cause the carian fate of miquella(given to him by his father when his fate was conjoined with the fate of the moon as rannai's fate is connected to the golden order and two fingers)he needed to get rid of the tirina part of his fate as did ranni get rid of her golden part of her fate
Oh thats actually an interesting application of my insight. I haven't thought of it that way before.
Thanks. I view Radahn being defeated by Melania as a requirement to get the ball rolling for Miquella's plans on the 'Eclipse'. Which is something I said way before Miyazaki had confirmed Radahn will be a required boss to access the DLC.
I talked about it in my DLC Egyptian myth video I think
Btw where tf is torrent??? I was surprised when I saw miquella walking in the story trailer even though they showed him riding torrent in the first art of the DLC.
Why is your Messmer drawing so similar to that Megamind "no maidens" meme?) Though considering what game we play...
haha ;)) that was nice
@@Ontos99 so...that wasn't intended?)
There's a few things I disagree with but overall still a pretty interesting take, refreshing to hear some novel ideas that are not too farfetched either.
I will say though, the process by which you disqualify the involvement of the GEQ is not very convincing to me. Shadowbound beasts don't come after you become a god (Blaidd is around for Ranni, after all) so Maliketh could've been around at that time. Additionally, him not being present for this scene is meaningless. The scene we're witnessing is not anyone's defeat, but the aftermath of it.
You're also very quick to disregard the "bag" that Marika is pulling from. Of course we can't be certain of anything at this point, but you have to agree it's at least visually reminiscent of Godskin. At any rate we can't say that it's just a random container, it's obviously pretty important in nature even if that nature is debatable. Marika's hand is bloodied when pulling from it, and we hear some squelching sounds, so it's clearly not insignificant.
Blaidd and Ranni situation is not a good evidence to support your claims as Ranni was an empyrean to begin with which is 'how' she was appointed that shadow beast by the GW.
In this trailer scene, Marika is 'not even a god' let alone Elden Beast is not even the dominant theocracy.
So the idea that, Godskin and GEQ was defeated 'at this moment' doesn't check out. Where is Maliketh whom was given by the Greater will (elden beast)? It was he, who defeated her after all.
And this trailer scene is the beginning as Miquela says 'The kind Miquella speaks of the beginning'
Maliketh was appointed to Marika 'after' this trailer scene, not before. So the GEQ wasn't defeated at that scene. That's a timeline contradiction.
In fact, GEQ uses the Rune of death as the queen of death, no? Well how does she have access to this RoD BEFORE it was plucked from the Ring?
The elden ring needs to be established first so that the RoD could be plucked and given to Melina first. I'll make a strong argument that Melina was the former status of GEQ in a separate episode.
I hope you look forward to it and I'm glad this video added some nice angles to your explorations.
Much love
@@Ontos99 Hmmm, your points seem to be based on the idea that the Elden Ring didn't exist before Marika's actions. Which... doesn't sound right to me. Placidusax was an Elden lord before Marika was around, and Elden Lord implies the Elden Ring existing. We have solid evidence of a different ER with a different shape from the one in Farum Azula.
In that line of thought, the contradictions you raise don't exist. If the GEQ was the goddess of the previous age, then she had access to the Rune of Death because it was part of the ER, which would have been part of herself. It's also fine for her to be an "Empyrean chosen by the Fingers", because she would have been just that.
It's actually a proper way of resolving a long standing question, because you can inverse the reasoning here and ask how did the GEQ have access to the Rune of Death back when she was at war with Marika if she WASN'T the Goddess at the time.
From there, Marika arrives to the Lands Between (which would have been whole at that point), overthrows the current order, takes the ER from the GEQ's belly and becomes the new goddess. Her Order is predicated on the removal of Death, and that removal might also be exactly what separates the Lands Between in two parts, one Gold and one Shadow.
There's not really any evidence that Marika created the Elden Ring or was the first incarnation of the Greater Will's Order. On the other hand, there's actually quite a few reasons to believe she wasn't.
@@TheRealTetro My Farum azula video explains my understanding of the origin timeline much better.
Give it a watch if it interests you. The sound quality and script isnt as good as this one but gets the point accross
Found through Ziostorm, nice theory!
Thank you
Bells are not associated with St Trina, but Miquella. That is why the bells swell with the music at the end of the dlc story trailer. Bells summon followers to church, and all of those followers summoned at the end of the dlc are Miquella's followers. St. Trina also spurns Omen, which is why the Omen are beset with nightmares when they sleep. St Trina and Miquella both forsake Omen in-game, which is why there are no Omen at the Haligtree.
It is not about 'bells' but the actual purpose and function of this spirit calling bell.
If you think about it, it is like 'those who live in death' thematically speaking of course not literally.
You call up a spirit to help you in the lands between.
We know how much Miquella wants to 'put to rest' TWLID with his golden order spells.
Within this context, of course that bell is made and crafted by Trina, not Miquella.
Melina is the pro-Miquella character (whom gives us Miquella's torrent btw), not Ranni.
Hope it makes sense. Much love
"Miquella's followers" might be a bit problematic. I do not think this is a "Band of the Hawk" situation, particularly since we have confirmation that there are ulterior motives involved for some of these characters. In fact, the way the text I'm referring to is worded indicates that no one but us is bound for a truthful search. All the others may "follow", but perhaps only we are meant to be guided.
I can add this though: bells ring for anyone within their reach.
@@kimlee6643 I am not invoking Berzerk or the Band of the Hawk, only the ending of the dlc trailer where all of them are together in convocation. Visually, they are assembled in a meaningful way. Ulterior motives or not, From Software clearly indicates that they have been called together by Miquella, whatever their purposes may be.
@@Ontos99 no, that does not make sense since Miquella uses Royal Revenants to guard his treasure in Elphael. He had to use Spirit Calling bells to summon them, just as Wraith Callers do. Why else would Royal Revenants exist in Elphael? There are no Wraith Callers there. Miquella is a tinkerer. He makes needles, swords, and bells. In vers. 1.00 his Lily is said to be Electrum, and Electrum was called "white gold" in ancient times. It is a naturally occurring alloy of silver and gold. Electrum also translates to "amber", not unlike the Amber Egg. The kicker here is that the Amber Egg rebirths the juvenile scholars of Raya Lucaria, but that "rebirth is as SLEEP to them". St. Trina is what Miquella was fated to become, not what his alter ego was already. That is why Miyazaki says they are "two different existences". He was supposed to become St. Trina, but he never did, for St Trina is a DREAM, a VISION, not who he currently is. In vers 1.00 Miquella is called the Scion of the Vision. His Vision, or Dream, is as yet unknown, but if I had a guess, it likely has to do with the removal of Omen altogether from the Erdtree, which is why Omen are tormented by dreams and why wraith-fire infects their bodies.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 Regardless none of that allude to spirit calling bell to have been crafted by Miquella and not Trina.
The connections with Ranni, spirits, sleep, dream are just too strong to attribute the craftsmenship of spirit calling bell to Miquella.
If the item description said something like "this is imbued with the power of unalloyed gold" or something, Miquella's craftsmanship would be easier to infer but as it stands Trina can be the only real source of the spirit calling bell.
Im sorry for all the npc that i am about to terrorize for armor and weapon drops🤣
Don't let me stop you ;))
@@Ontos99 oh trust me nothing is stopping me ive almost got every weapon and armor in the game as of right now
@@Sleezy-yeti aah you’re so cool and edgy
@@DankyKang96 did you comment that so you could feel “cool and edgy” or do you just have nothing better to do than trying to make people feel bad for having fun
@@Sleezy-yeti only mongoloids kill npc’s
I wonder how the story will end considering they said it won't impact the base game
I think Miquella will heal the shadow world, get rid of the veil Marika has put on it and combine it with the Lands Between.
There will probably be some sorta sign that shadow realm is now 'integrated' into the lands between post final boss.
As to what that sign might be, maybe something related to the Erdtree? I dunno
The cocoon with the golden strings looks like a Godskin swaddling cloth. And we know the Gloam Eyed Queen made these skin cloth swaddles to created her apostles in. And in the trailer, we see skinless bodies everywhere...
We also see the hand has a bracelet that looks like Marika's in the concept art, yet the shape of the body holding the strings above is clearly male (no artist that wanted to unambiguously depict Marika there would use that shape)...
So it's very obviously FROM are intentionally obfuscating the details, most likely because what we are lead to believe we are seeing (Marika ascending to godhood and brandishing the Elden Ring) is most likely not what is actually being depicted. I mean in the first place, the Elden Ring existed before Marika became god (Placidusax had it etc.) so it makes no sense to be connected with these strings.
The ring did, the Golden Order did not. It's depicting the beginning of her reign. "An affair from which Gold arose..." That and you can see side boob on her close up. :P
@@raymondcaswell5622 Oh really? I need to carefully zoom in on Marika to confirm that.
Hold my Elden Ring.
i interpreted st trina as 3 persons "Tri"na
Ontos, I guess I should have told you I was a history major in a past life. I'll try and keep this short as I have to go to work, BUT, I have a homework assignment for you. Be sure to take notes. ;) "The Ancient Crucible" by Geoff Simons: "The region of the world that the ancient Greeks called Mesopotamia (the land 'between the rivers') and that we know today as Iraq was a fount of civilization- a veritable crucible, cockpit, cradle, womb of cultural progress...." "The geography of the great Tigris-Euphrates Valley, the land of the so called 'Twin Rivers' at the heart of Mesopotamia, manifestly favored the emergence of civilized communities...." Zoroastrianism (wiki): One of the world's oldest organized faiths, it is based on the teachings of the Avesta and the Iranian prophet Zoroaster. Zoroastrians exalt an uncreated and benevolent deity of wisdom, commonly referred to as "Ahura Mazda." Opposed to Ahura Mazda is "Angra Mainyu" who is personified as a destructive spirit and the adversary of all things good. They are twin brothers, with the former being the epitome of good and the latter being the epitome of evil. Zoroastranism combines a dualistic cosmology of good and evil with an eschatology predicting the ultimate triumph of Ahura Mazda over evil. In Zoroastrian tradition, dragons were simply known as azi, or serpents. They had important roles in religious texts. They were mostly demonic, evil creatures who swallowed horses and men and emitted poison. The Persian dragon looked a lot like the Chinese dragon, with a snake-like body. Except its body was surrounded by wisps of flame (Messmer reference). They were sometimes connected to rain and eclipses, much like other Asian dragons." (see dragons of Persia) Ok, so I can get crazy, crazy deep on you, but does that not sound like Elden Ring?? Now you know where they got the name "Lands Between" from, and if you look at the map it looks a lot like the area around that part of the Persian Gulf. :)
Zoroastrian's worship fire by the way.
That sounds sick. let me look into that stuff
@@Ontos99 Deathbirds: "Instead of burying the corpse, Zoroastrians traditionally laid it out on a purpose built tower (dokhma or 'Tower of Silence') to be exposed to the sun and eaten by birds of prey such as vultures."
You mean some "godskin in the game"
;))
How can this possibly be a complete Lore analysis of the dlc when the dlc hasn't dropped yet and we don't have all the content yet?
'DLC Trailer Lore Analysis' ;))
Good vid but for the record the Erdtree did exist before the Fire Giant war, there's lots of evidence for this. The text you are misinterpreting is that the AGE of the erdtree didn't begin until they won the war with the Fire Giants. That was the final battle of the golden order conquest and the start of its era, not the start of its existence.
"In the begining, all was opposed to the Erdtree", as in during their conquest, the Erdtree was already in existence and the symbol of their forces.
No the Erdtree didnt exist before the war with the giants. Thats a reading that doesnt take Simithing 7 description into account. The "birth" line is undeniable.
What you mean with the protection of the erdtree descr. is meaning "everything was opposed to the "erdtree reign"
The erdtree ideaology if you will which was at the time represented by Marika and Gofdrey's troops. Before they became the dominant theocracy by defeating the stormlord and the fire giants. Before Marika became a god
Smithing Stone 8: "Stone used to smith a variety of armaments. Found in a polar region, it is semi-vitrified. ... Thought to have been used to hone the weapons of the champions of the War against the Giants at the birth of the Erdtree." The Erdtree didn't exist until Markia fought the Fire Giants. It was only after this war that age of the Erdtree began.
I wonder if she truly hates the omen, or she is just following a pact, with Messmer, maybe? Because she made the Elden ring before the war, so why wage it?
Marika has a bone to pick with crucibles because that was the civilization that preceded her order with the Erdtree.
As much as their qualities were linked with divinity at the time, they can no longer be so highly regarded in the age of the golden order ;))
@@Ontos99 Well yeah but at the same time serpents are even more blasphemous than the omen, also Godwyn has a really good relation ship with dragons and Messmer has dragon symbolism too. So why are dragons part of the order and at the same time are part with the serpent (a symbol of the enemy of the Golden order).
And we can see that the omen serve the golden order, yet the serpent is strictly against it.
If she was truly against the omen the order would want to stamp them out like the serpent but they are "only" shunned, imprisoned? They wage wars with Mt. Gelmir in the end.
But also there is this spirit in Fort Laiedd that is hiding from the Thorny, fire witches which have Messmer's symbolism with the impalement and fire, yet serve the Golden order? I feel there's too much over lapping, let's wait for the DLC. 🤔
@@cainjacob4137 I do not think Marika particularly likes Messmer. Which explains how he is banished in the shadow realm.
However, Messmer is still guarding the realm by purging the shadow land of all things crucible nonetheless. Making sure what his mother has repressed at the birth of her order, stays repressed.
All hail for the loyal pro-america Messmer, the hero.
deep philosophical videos about Elden Ring?
Shut up and take and my sub
You should make your own project
My own 'Haligtree' project!
@@Ontos99 just make sure no half related omens try to kidnap you.
❤❤🎉😊
Ekhem, why are you still having 1.5K subs.
And dont you dare to go into alchemy with explanation. Not this time xdd.
Bro, WHYYYYY!??!
...
Damn... golden lore channel, apparently eternal child (considering growing rate is basically 0). Constantly prowing main ones wrong and ignorant. Is it a some sort of subtle role play of you?
Change channel name to Miquella or sth... (Miquella The Ontos? XDDD, imagine you would finally start to grow coincidentally after the DLC gets released. LMAO)
I'm cursed with eternal youth. The channel subscription has hit its peak, unfortunately ;))
On a serious note, I don't do this for the views. But thank you for this nice comment. I'll think about the name change 'Miquella, the Ontos' but it just sounds so cringe haha
Your thumbnails are really weird.. lack an identity and pattern.
I get that it’s a pain in the ass to even make one, however it’s all about simplicity.
Ok. I'll work on them
@@Ontos99
Up to you. Based on the amount of vids you’ve made and how large the videos are = I think you should have more subscribers and views, but the thumbnails are holding you back.
Putting Miyazaki on the thumb for example implies its a 1 on 1 interview with him which the video is not about.
@@Sorrus-B4lyfe My clickthrough rate is not low at all. In fact Miyazaki thumbnails get the highest views
RUclips algorithm is very complicated and there are various reasons why a video gets low impressions.
Its something about a channel's reach and audience which is not quite strong in my case.
I'll continue to make videos. Thank you for your recommendations and insight!
You aren’t the best at lore are you? I won’t bring up everything wrong with the video but one is the fact that item descriptions are written from the point of view of the Golden Order so we can’t quite trust the description saying she was defeated by maliketh and also people get their shadow bound beast when they become empyreans. Not when they become gods.
Please..do bring up 'everything wrong with the video' Provide all the evidence you can to right the wrongs and show us the correct insights.
Ontos called me an A-Marikan psycho, I am s h a t t e r e d
But you're right, dead GEQ pre-god-Marika doesn't fit with the timeline because there's no Maliketh. Well, back to not knowingv WTF to think 🥲
Haha I added that scene on a whim. Glad you liked it.