RV-10 Fatal Crash Marin County, CA. 6 May 2022
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2022
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When I worked with new instrument students, I made myself a big PITA on purpose about not going out and getting into situations like this, and I would tell them, "quite frankly I don't want to be standing there at your funeral explaining to your family what you did wrong. I want you to listen to me now so that never happens." From what I know, they have all taken that advice to heart. If you are a student.....don't make these mistakes.
Sometimes being a hardass is the only way to get through to these kids.
Former CFI here and ...ditto.
@@weschilton absolutely! We were all kids once or twice.
@@weschilton - "These Kids" ... how about all kids.
As a retired airline pilot I have occasionally resorted to short periods of IMC flying in my post-retirement private flying. I found it really interesting how rapidly my IFR skills deteriorated without recurrent training and regular IFR exposure! I now consider myself unsafe in IMC - well, a short letdown or climb through a thin above-terrain cloud layer is OK, but that is about it. Years of intense-weather IFR in a multi-crew cockpit is definitely a handicap in single-pilot private flying. While I did a lot of single-pilot IFR at the beginning of my career, it is no help now. Bottom line: I am older and slower now and, most important, I have been there, done that and know first-hand how little it takes to screw things up.
That is not only for you. But the problem also with the way schools train nowadays. They train multicrew. These guys and gals get there IFR ticket having never flown single pilot. Afterwards they rent themselves a single engine aircraft and get killed because they do not know how to manage the flight alone in the cockpit. Lot's of accidents happen that way in Europe where this started.
@@VEJ2, I started flying commercially in 1977 and IFR training in those days concentrated on single pilots. At least I was trained for it and proficiency-checked every year.
"Years of intense-weather IFR in a multi-crew cockpit is definitely a handicap in single-pilot private flying." Wow, I needed to hear this. 4.5 years to go at UAL. RV8 in the shop. I owe you a beer! :)
@@okflyer777 You don't have to go to 65 Bill. I left at 59 and have been enjoying my RV8 ever since....day VFR of course.
@@jcheck6 Thanks, yeah would be nice. I can't really swing that idea any more, unfortunately. UAL bankruptcy ended that.
An ATC perspective here, from a controller who is also a flight instructor -- if a pilot needs to climb to avoid terrain in a situation like this, I agree that it may well be the best way to save your life. But if there is busy airspace above, the pilot should tell ATC as soon as possible, and if not talking to ATC then it's good to squawk the 7700 code so we see you climbing. And whenever you do talk to ATC, please keep the wings level or the bank angle small so as not to lose control. (These are my personal thoughts, not official FAA policies. I'm speaking with my CFI hat on, so to speak)
Additionally, an ADS-B signal obviously helps tremendously with avoiding other planes, even if the other planes can only act on your data.
Great advice.
@@veganliving7622 Level over a ball? 🤔 What are you actually asking?
@@theegg-viator4707 Sounds like a flat earth troll to me. Probably best to ignore, since they refuse to accept reality anyhow.
@@theegg-viator4707 I think the question is from someone who doesn't understand the scale of the earth.
I appreciate this info. Pilot was a personal friend and great person and father.
Im so sorry for your loss.
Even more so for the families of these two pilots.
Condolences to everyone!
What I horrible loss. Im sorry for you all of you.
So sorry for your loss.
With his piloting skills, I hope he had loads of life insurance.
That must be one scarey situation to find yourself in. RIP to both victims.
That’s what happens when you think you’re smarter than everyone else
@@keithhoss4990 I don’t see evidence of hubris here. It seems more like confusion.
My RV-8 is equipped with a Garmin Aera 660. I fly in the mountains alot and always have my terrain avoidance window activated. I agree with Juan..this sounds like a relatively inexperienced pilot getting himself into a bad situation in terms of highly variable IMC in the vicinity of steep/high terrain. I know the crash area well. One second you're in the clear, the next second you're in the soup. So much comes down to cockpit decision-making. My decision-making process is very simple...if I even ask myself if something is safe or not, the answer is automatically "no". I'm still here after 45 years of active flying, so I must be doing something right. You cannot be "too safe".
>if I even ask myself if something is safe or not, the answer is automatically "no"
This is excellent advice
Doc Holiday please say hello to Wyatt Earp please.
I asked above bit they said I am trolling. Over a distance of 100 miles there is over 1 mile of earths curve. When do pilots actually steer down to stay level with the ball earth ? Not trolling, thank you.
An iPad with foreflight and stratus AHRS is a simple way to help combat this too.
@@veganliving7622 you are being very theoretical in your thinking. The Earth sphere is very big so a pilot doesn't notice the curve in amongst the turbulence etc. Similarly you wouldn't notice a very slight curve driving along a cross continental road.
Juan, I am the other owner of this aircraft and was made aware of your channel by a friend. Very fair and straight forward description of what happened. I am also a professional pilot and understand the concerns here with the advanced cockpit, declining weather, and poor communication between ATC and Pilot. I am grieving heavily and would normally not comment on such a thing as I don't have all the facts, don't know the mindset of the pilot or other factors that may have gone wrong last Friday.
That being said I have read all the comments here and would like to clear a few things up so a fair and hopefully helpful discussion can occur going forward on this particular incident.
1. The pilot here was very studious, he flew with me for many many hours, for at least the first year he owned this with me he flew it with my self or an instructor. He got his license in a Cessna so that his basic navigation skills would be solid. He then did anything he could to learn the glass cockpit, many days dragging me to the airport to just answer questions. I will say this thing is more advanced than my Gulfstream so there is a high learning curve which he took seriously.
2. In no way was he trying to show off to a girl, they had been together for years and their friendship was amazing. She had flown with us many times.
3. Putting any blame on this being an experimental aircraft is flawed. The wings didn't fall off, it doesn't seem as if the engine quit. Many of our friends own Vans or other experimentals with thousands of hours of flight time, they are very safe and well designed. When operated properly they can provide a rewarding experience.
On a personal note: We can all blame lack of training, poor decision making, bad luck etc. The cause of many aircraft accidents is usually a series of events that chain together to cause the ultimate outcome. I have Monday morning quarterbacked this thing 700 ways till Sunday. Many of the commenters here are correct IF he'd of done this, or IF he'd have done that they would be alive today. Maybe true to some extent but remember when you were a new pilot and got into a situation that was over your head. Your heart is pumping, your scared to death and the fact that the aircraft is probably screaming at you to look out for the terrain in what had to be a severe downdraft coming over that hill (which is pretty steep) proved to be over whelming. I miss my friend and wished he'd done many of the things you all are saying. End of the day it's a terrible outcome, I hope that you all can appreciate he was trying to get that experience and judgement that this piece is saying is lacking in our new pilots.
This is what scares me. Capable and some high time pilots making deadly mistakes. I guess any one of us could be here unless we stay vigilant. Sorry for the loss of your very good friends.
When I took my flying lessons the instructor was a former TopGun pilot. He always emphasized the pilots creed. when you get into trouble, "Whatever you do, don't fu#k this up." He pointed out that just because you're not instrument rated, it doesn't mean you can't use them to get out of trouble, that is what they're there for. It just means you can't file a flight plan under IFR. In fog or marine layer, I was taught too know where you are, point the plane away from hills and big airports and get above the muck. Then once up there, take a few breaths and re-group.
Thanks Juan. I had a conversation with the pilot about two years ago when he wanted to buy his first airplane. At the time he was thinking about different aircraft options, but this had nothing to do with the accident obviously. A friend of mine is very close with the pilot and girlfriend who deceased and is mourning the loss of close friends. I think your description is spot on. RIP.
So sorry for the relatives.
Thank you, Juan for your report.
I fly seaplane tours over that area on weekends. That Friday we cancelled all flights due to dense fog. I wish he would have done the same.
Bruce, I’m a North Bay pilot as well, and I wonder if the strong downdrafts in that area might also have been a contributing factor. When the fog rolls over the headlands you can see the strong downward airflow while driving on the 101. It’s impressive. Terminal Chart says 1,111’ is highest terrain around there, with GGB towers come up to 760’. Class B starts at 3,000’. Plenty of room unless you’re trying to duck clouds. But maybe the pilot got pulled into a strong downdraft after entering IMC?
@@fltof2 You make a valid point. I don't know but suspect he might have been looking for a hole. I am certain those strong downdrafts didn't help.
I think ATC could have been a bit more helpful. After repeated requests on a route to HMB, ATC should recognize that they guy was confused / lost, and given him a bit more direction than simply "stay clear of Bravo".
The pilot should have recognized he was confused and ask for clarification.
I have always said this as a CFI. If you get confused and are getting disoriented. DECLARE. Go through the Bravo and into clouds. Deal with whatever happens when you land safely. So many pilots fear of what will happen ext. I can promise you its much better then crashing.
Thank you, Juan. My wife lost a dear friend in this crash. When I saw video from the day of the crash I thought "spatial disorientation" in the fog. Of course, we'll have to wait for the FAA, but thanks for your very helpful presentation.
The Bay Area is my own playground and I have cancelled Bay Tours many times due to the marine layer conditions. We'll go play over by Byron or over the Delta where it's usually severe clear, even if the Bay is completely socked in. The Half Moon Bay tour is a ton of fun and very pretty when conditions permit; however, I would never push my luck with that marine layer.
You gave such excellent advice to the VFR pilot no matter how much instrumentation on the plane: point away from the obstruction, climb into the airspace, call the tower, declare an emergency.
Thanks for the reminder.
Declaring an emergency crossed my mind while I was watching the video, but I quickly discounted it, because of stigma and "getting in trouble with the FAA" . So, it was good to have it reiterated...that's exactly what you do to save your life!
As the builder of an IFR-capable RV6-A, news of this accident makes me sick. Things may have changed considerably in the 20 years since I finished my project, but it used to be that Van’s Aircraft and knowledgeable builders warned others that the RV series was never intended for IFR flight, and I discovered why when early one winter morning I had the opportunity to practice recovering from a real graveyard spiral encountered during an attempted escape from an unpredicted snowstorm in mountains east of Kingman, AZ. RV aircraft are very sensitive sport airplanes neutrally stable in pitch and roll when properly trimmed. It doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to overdo control inputs in a blind turn, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if that’s what happened to this pilot. Two aviators and a beautiful airplane lost. How sad!
So rough seeing how close they were to clearing the ridge (not that they wouldn't have encountered terrain after that if they couldn't get out of the fog). There is a GA crash site near where I live in Catskill Mountains - similar situation - just failed to clear the limb of a mountain by 100 ft or so (also due to weather). Always such an uneasy feeling hiking in that area and thinking about how such a small difference made *all* the difference for that pilot. Thanks for all you do trying to prevent these accidents, Juan...
Kaaterskill High Peak? A small twin, many years ago?
@@sebastianeggert5977 Hi Sebastian - there definitely is one (or more) on KHP... the one I've personally seen there though is quite a bit lower on one of the middle terraces above the Platte Clove trailhead and I'm not sure what kind of plane. The one I mentioned in my original comment was off of one of the limbs of Overlook Mountain - I think that was a single engine plane and occurred (maybe ?) around 1987. When leaves are off the trees you can see the debris down below the ledges that overlook Woodstock...
I think a lot of this has to do with a new pilots perspective on ATC. They are often viewed as a traffic cop, just waiting for you to violate the rules then they will bust you.
I think this makes a lot of pilots very hesitant to declare an emergency when the actual reality is that if you do declare, you’ll have their full attention but not in a bad way. They will do everything they can to get you on the ground in one piece.
Yes, you might get yelled at a bit but you’ll still be alive.....
I was taught early on that ATC is my best friend if I get in trouble, and they actually are. Don’t be afraid of them.
Ego and fear can be deadly!
ATC has nothing to do with the regulation side of the house- definitely give them a call! Even if they get a little miffed, they don’t want to see anyone die. These types of accidents are so tragic 💔
For 8 yrs when disability prevented me from continuing ground school & flying my Cessna, I got a scanner & pretty much had it turned on 24 hrs a day. I could hear MSN & ORD (till 5000 ft in good weather). I found ATC to be amazing & calm, treated private pilots w/ same respect as Air Force One.
Spot on Juan - it was an emergency. Damn it.
Indeed the Rosie path of destruction. Very sad! Thanks for your quick and thorough update!
As said below, Well Done Juan. Your calm and analytical description of what probably happened, without personal bias, separates you from a lot of the others that do this. They too have their place to drive home the point of the mistakes being made over and over. We can always come here for just the facts. Thanks.
I’m a low time pilot so the end of the video was very educational on statistics . I always ask more experienced pilots how long it took them to get comfortable. They all respond the same way . Don’t get comfortable ! Great video
My view is that anything below 1000 hrs. is "low time".
Very sad, but you are a good trainer Juan. Thanks for your expertise.
Thanks Jaun for another quality video and sound advice on low time pilots. I sit in this category myself and perhaps I'm over cautious when it comes to cloud and getting tied up in bad weather however I feel its best to be on the right side of it rather than tangled up in it. Planning to get myself a full instrument rating and stay proficient with IFR flying. Best wishes from me the UK.
Sad.
It is so sad to see this happening even with 3 glass panels with moving maps and synthetic vision and artificial terrain . . .
. . . and the most important of all - the LvL button.
Juan, i am very familiar with this area and used to fly the Bay Tour often. (My Grumman Cheetah was at Petaluma and later Gnoss Field in Novato.) But..as a VFR pilot I always checked the weather and would look closely and often at my surrounding weather once in the air. As I am sure you know, the weather, fog, clouds, wind speed and direction, etc can change VERY quickly around the mouth of the SF Bay (Golden Gate Bridge). My guess is that this pilot was not familiar with our rapidly changing weather situation.
What’s missing from the conversation is the fear of a violation or some sort of recourse in the pilot’s mind disrupting the process of flying the aircraft to a safe escape. As that internal debate of whether or not to declare an emergency evolves, the aircraft continues to deviate from a steady state condition and the pilot becomes further disoriented. Until there is a solid policy from the FAA putting safety first, this internal debate will continue to be a causative factor in aircraft accidents. There have been pilots who did the right thing and asked for help during IIMC in mountainous terrain, only to have the local FSDO seek abrasive action against them after they and their passengers survived the event. That type of experience may lead that pilot to not seek help again if the event were to occur to him or those who he speaks with about the possible repercussions of getting help.
Good point!
I believe this is what led to the crash that killed Kobe B.
@@hubriswonk exactly
Agree, FAA, Transport Canada or any agency should adopt a "Just Culture" when it comes to errors/violations within reason of course, not talking about Trevor Jacobs stupid stunt of crashing a plane on purpose. It's unfortunate that this pilot and passenger didn't make it but if they did and had climbed into Class B airspace, survived but where reported for the violation, they should have been brought in for training, reeducated on the risk of what happened and what the correct course of action should be. Make it a positive learning experience and then they may actually learn and be safer and not afraid of the FAA or like agency. They should also never be afraid of ATC, I don't know why people develop this fear of them, I've had nothing but great experiences with them, they are there to help and make sure everyone gets home safe... just talk to them, tell them you're in a bad situation, they will help, they can't help if they don't know.
I tangled with that marine layer once back in 1988. Went all the way out to GOBBS to get under it and scud run back to the shoreline. Once was enough
I have been in a similar situation, pushing on when I should have turned around. I tried to stay VFR but the speed rising super rapidly, the altimeter spinning in a blur, rate of climb and descent pegged, revs thru the roof........pulling back but things just get worse!
Wanting to quit, but no one to help. "Power back to idle to reduce rate of descent. Roll wings level using Artificial Horizon; pull hard and hope.....when the little bird WELL up into the blue, full power, trim...." I thank my superb RAF training for saving my life - learning to keep emotions out of things - they do not help. TRY! CAVU skies to all pilots.
Wow. That's right above Conzelman where I used to cycle from Alameda two days a week. The cloud cover there can vary in minutes. I took some friends up to the top of the road, which is around 800 feet. When we got there we had clear views of the bridge and the city. Ten minutes later we were in solid cloud. All in a strong wind too, the marine layer is sucked into the bay by the onshore breeze driven by hot air rising inland. From Grizzly Peak, above Berkeley at around 2,000 feet, you could look down on the blanket of fog with the towers of the GG bridge sticking out. A very very bad place to be in IMC.
Thank you Capt. Browne for the briefing.
I have been in a similar situation, scud running over rising terrain with falling cloud layer. This Pilot was also dealing with complex airspace and trying to follow the rules (mistake). I can imagine the terrain warnings and then as he maneuvered wildly, maybe even a simultaneous stall warning, must have been awful. Having gotten lucky once (just luck) my advice is this; there is no good way out so don’t let it happen. I shudder when I think about my experience.
Well said sir, regarding the glass panel, "you're only as good as your training allows" ...lots of money to purchase these avionics won't help you if your pilot training hasn't reached that level of proficiency.
Thanks Juan. I have relatives up in the Sonoma County area so we often cross the Golden Gate Bridge on our way up there from SFO (San Francisco Int’l Airport). I can attest the area right around the bridge can get foggy, and be hard to see even when driving in a car, depending on how low and how thick the fog / marine layer is. I know SFO is also a very busy airport and they do close parallel landings. Captain Joe did a video on that awhile back.
Oh, boy. So sad. We just don’t seem to get better at avoiding the “continued VFR into IFR conditions.
Thanks for adding the photos of the unfortunate individuals at the end of your report Juan. Really brings it home that a lot of hopes and dreams met an unfortunate conclusion that day. Reminds us they are more than just "some other person"
I received my private in 1994, and moved to California in 2018. When I received my updated license with my new California address, the date of issue was shown as 2018, not 1994. At least in my case, the date of issue shown on my license is when my updated license was issued, not when I initially received my private. Unless this was an oversight error by the FAA, I'm not sure you can determine a pilot's experience by the issue date on their license.
This is correct. Recently moved myself and now shows a date of issue in 2022.
I have a similar scenerio
Same with me I’ve moved a few times
Yeah the date is the RE-issue, every time you move. I've moved a lot in 35 years myself. I was thinking of getting a display plaque (from Sporty's) for home but with the original date on it. I don't think the online databases show the original dates, but the FAA knows all the dates and when ratings were added and everything. Accident reports sometimes include how many hours were recent and stuff; no idea how they know that (except for airlines).
A user named TT in these comments claims the pilot was talking to them about shopping for a new plane two years ago. Just a piece of data.
Another factor i haven't seen mentioned, that hill sets a Rotor wave frequently. It can be observed often over the headlands. As someone who sails the area often, there are strong gusting downdraft off most off of that area. Also has a venturi affect which reaches several hundred yards windward of the bridge . 15-30 knots not uncommon. Sad decision to fly into higher terrain. Condolences to the friends n family. Keep it coming Juan.
Great video Juan….This poor pilot was in over his head when he flew into IMC. What ever happened to making a 180 and getting the heck out of there! See the GG bridge another day.
Pride........goes hand-in-hand with get-there-itis......both are deadly.
I think its the stress. Sudden change of conditions along with instructions to avoid certain airspace.
Sigh….😞Just an aviation enthusiast only here and I have learned much from your channel and Dan Gryder’s! Condolences , so sad for the children.
I was driving south on 101 just after the accident. The fog was very heavy at times with high winds.
Thank you so much for the video!! My home airport is in the Bay Area and we do these bay tours frequently. As a freshly minted pilot your expertise in what should be done in situations like this is invaluable. Love to the pilot & passenger’s family.
Thanks for the great summary juan. What an unfortunate accident. Most local pilots would not have attempted a bay tour down the coast when it’s foggy without a class bravo clearance. Sad
Thank you for saying clearly what good options are once you're in a situation like that. Use tools like the autopilot. Don't hesitate to declare an emergency.
I am from Marin county i grew up there. I am also a private pilot got licensed at Gnoss field. I know how the fog is i have flown many hours above and around it. Ok first thing to know fog is probably the main cause of imc. Not clouds above. Many people like to fly the coast route down to Santa Cruz. Its tempting to try to fly around it but the thing is it comes from the ocean and you cannot fly west to get around it. It does not build fast its a gradual build up rarely exceeding 200o feet in altitude I had the misfortune of being a passenger while a pp was following another aircraft south over the coast waters as he was about to enter the fog i aggressively reminded him he was not qualified to do so.
Years ago I kept my 152 at a grass strip across the street from my house. I was down to about one hours fuel on board so I needed to fly to the airport to fuel up. I took off around eight AM into clear weather. The flight was a maximum of fifteen minutes. Houston weather can change in a just a few minutes. A fog set in over the airport I was heading to. I flew around for another fifteen minutes VFR trying to find a cleaning but no luck. Luckily there was a radio tower that I was aware of that was west of the field about one mile. I spotted it and took the chance to lower altitude. Thank goodness the fog was not on the ground but about 20 feet above it and that gave me enough to spot what looked like the airport. Said a little prayer and aimed for it. I landed safely but I know it could have been much worse. Also the fuel gage was showing empty on both tanks. Thank you Lord.
Coming to and from SF, it is very easy to forget that it can be sunny and 90F+ anywhere inland and foggy, cold and miserable between 100ft and 1500ft anywhere near the coast. Especially around the summer months.
This is what the weather looked like that day at 600ft over the city: isitfoggy.com/photos/2022-05-06/timelapse.mp4
Like many of the other comments here I have also flown the bay tour VFR. However, i’m very conservative about the weather on this type of flight. Due to the low altitude required to fly under the bravo air space I don’t want to have to worry about fog or the marine layer as an extra complication. Pilot workload is high enough with all of the radio work, maintaining altitude, and navigation. If there is a Marine layer and or fog I just wait for a better day. It’s very tragic to keep seeing the same sort of accidents happen over and over. Thank you Juan, for the recap and safety reminders. Fly safe everybody.
I remember driving across the GG Bridge that day it was dense fog all day at bridge level (220 ft). I could barely see the cars in front of me. Boy, not a day for VFR flying.
Sincere thanks Juan, 2 statements in this video hit home for me. I appreciate the good advice.
Thanks for keeping us informed and how inexperience can lead to these accidents.
Thank you for this report, RB, Nova Scotia.
Excellent review
Great advice, as always, Juan.
It happened to me on one of my first solo-cross-country-flights. Flight from Goodyear to Blythe- VFR. I was aware that bad weather was ahead but did not pay much attention because I had Zero experience. I looked at my charts for a short moment and when I looked up, all was just white. In clouds. After a minute I heard the engine RPM go up. I was in a dive, 5 degrees nose down. I shat my pants, forced myself to look at the artificial horizon and made a 180 turn. After 90 seconds I was in VMC again. Young pilots should be forced to learn this on their first theory-lesson. GET THE FUCK OUT or you DIE.
It’s better to not get into it in the first place. Use your superior judgment to avoid having to use your superior piloting skills.
@@Codehead3 This sounds like great advice, but there needs to be a plan for if you get into that situation - mistakes happen - not everyone has superior judgment.
The most difficult maneuver in an aircraft is a 180 degree turn.
Only in the movies do you find old bold Pilots. You did the right thing and survived. Amen.
Been there, done that. Happy to still be alive!
He used the autopilot the whole trip down. Why didn’t he set it to climb and return till he got clear of the weather? Also did he not run through the whole trip route before the flight?
Indeed the Rosie path of destruction. Very sad! Thanks for your quick and thorough update
Just goes to show how easy it is to get into IMC conditions. And how hard it is to get yourself out of them if you don’t know what you’re doing.
The higher performance the aircraft, the easier and faster things happen, especially in IMC conditions. It's easy to judge from a chair but a definite learning curve experience when in it. That said, luck favors the prepared.
Thanks Juan
This is a very sad story. Excellent analysis Juan. My condolences to all involved. First of all I’ve done this route many many times and the bay tour I’ll be very honest I never do this tour if there’s a marine layer present. I fly a cirrus with the latest greatest technology and I’m a high hour instrument rated pilot. Nevertheless it’s no fun for your passengers and it’s certainly not worth the stress in a very difficult airspace and difficult terrain. Problem is no one wants the bust bravo Knowing they shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Hopefully this will be a lesson to many newer pilots
So happy I was able to get my ratings before the GPS craze. I had not flown for a while and hopped into a rental Cessna 172 with an instructor. Plane was equipped with a G 1000. I was not familiar with that particular set up and most definitely it is a task overload trying to learn while flying. I had even studied the manual quite a bit prior to the flight. My simple GNS 430 could be a handful if you did not know its functions.
Juan, early in my flying career I was fortunate to be given the advice to always maintain a clear horizon to achieve VMC. I found this was much easier to implement practically rather than applying the “legal” definition. This could be a life-saver!
At 6,000 ft on a sunny clear afternoon, I found myself in solid IFR conditions when I turned right to fly over the water near Block Island near Connecticut. The sun and haze created a perfect white ball around the 172, no horizon, no indication of up or down or sun location. Not IFR rated then, did a standard rate reverse 180. All flight students should have under the hood experience and exposure to unplanned adverse conditions, and how to manage them.
Good video Juan...and calling it right. Tragic...but definitely well put about knowing about IMC....
And the probable cause, like so, so many others, will be like this: "Continued VFR flight into IMC by a non instrument rated pilot, resulting in a collision with terrain..."
Another great report, Juan.
Back in the days when I served on Marine vessels I recall the expression "Radar controlled collision" i.e. master the basics before relying upon technology!!!
Hey Juan, local bay area pilot here. Not that it matters to this accident, but that little Bravo "notch" down along the Pacific coast is not down to the surface, it's a "shelf" at 1600ft giving you a clear path down the coastline, without flying way out over the water. Just wanted to clarify that... it's an easy one to miss on the standard sectional chart... always important to look at the TAC view :)
When I was in High School flying with My Father in his SIX …… he trained me in case he became incapacitated, to FIRST engage the Autopilot ……. Before broadcasting on 121.5 for an IAD call. It is incredibly sad how many distracted Pilots ….. perish for lack of utilizing their Autopilot Systems.
Godspeed
The one conversation that could have saved their lives, "Tower I'm in IMC and need vectors out, so I can climb on top."
Thank You again, Sir!
Thanks Juan.
thank-you! Juan
Thank you for the information.
Another excellent breakdown. Let's get Juan to 500k!!!
Very sad. Sincere condolences to the family and friends. RIP
Excellent advice as usual Juan, the old adage applies....... It's far better to be down here, wishing you were up there than being up there wishing you were down here. RIP to those lost.
My uncle was a a Pan Am Clipper captain. After confessing to him a couple dumb things a had done as a new pilot, he said, “If you live through them, they will make you into a good pilot. But if possible, let someone else pay the tuition.”
what a great resource Juan is for new pilots!
Thank you , regards liz RIP to both Victims. condolences to both families.
AMEN AGAIN JUAN !
My flight instructor frequently told me not to be too ashamed to ask him to accompany me on a specific flight that I might be a bit unsure of, flight conditions,
( weather )
Especially when just new to my instrument rating !
He often said, better to ask for help, than to end up dead !
Don't let ego over step your flying ability in other words !
I hate to see another avoidable accident Juan !
Especially in an area known for the infamous marine layer !
Always be willing to ask for more assistance !
VFR can go away very quickly !
So very sorry for the families who have lost their loved ones !
Juan that was a superb report. Man i like to add an xtra safety margin under my flying envelope. And only When I am at my best when flying regularly then i grasp a bit xtra.flying is fun enough but o have no need to quickly pursue going out of my envelope.
Looks like he was so close to clearing the top of the Hill. May not have seen the hill until they were 50-100 feet away and there was not enough time to react. Horrible way to die. Crash/Bang, it's over.
The Fog at the Golden Gate Bridge is fascinating. The top of the Bridge Tower is 750 feet. The Roadway is 250 feet. Sometimes the Fog is below, at or above the Roadway and below the top of the Bridge Tower.
As always, thank you for the in depth and fast analysis. We do the bay tour often and Karl The Fog is to be respected. BTW, that little bravo notch off the coast west of San Bruno is to 1600 not the surface.
Excellent Analysis .. !
thanks, Juan. so tragic
I have been right where he went in while filming time lapse of the marine layer wafting in. Chilling and heartbreaking seeing how very close he was to clearing the ridge line. This sort of analysis can help a lot of people. Thanks again, Juan.
Thks for good review
Another very sad case. Thank you, Juan.
Thank you Juan for steadfast objective analysis. Choosing to sight see around near busy atc zones in anything other than clear skies, with ocean on one side and hills and dales on the other.. I don't understand.
So very sad. This hits locally for us here in the Sacramento region.
Always enjoy your interpretation of and clear communication of the known facts.
So sad, we have to get the message out that non-instrument rated pilots should avoid IMC at all costs!
In this case, yup. Also pilots should remember that "in the process of IFR training" is not adequate. Not instrument current is not adequate, especially as the time lapsed increases.
I was doing VFR steep turns near the Gulf Coast of TX a few years ago. It was a visually flat day and when the nose swung toward the water the water and sky became one solid blue mass. I got lost for a few seconds (spatial disorientation). I had to get on the gauges and told the CFI I was flying with what happened after land came into view. He said that he takes students there are all the time and had never noticed it. I wonder how many students of his experienced the same but didn't learn anything from it.
I think Juan nailed it.
@@MichaelLloyd
Agreed, I was in process of training and it took about 30 hours before it all started to “click” . . . JFK jr. was in the process as well . . .
Even Instrument rated pilots who fly VFR into IMC don’t do very well.
@@Charon58
Oh I don’t disagree if not proficient, but a non instrument rated pilot is close to 100% fatal if they don’t get out of IMC ASAP.
@@Charon58 Very true. Flywire- scott perdue did a video on that a while back. It's been a few decades but I remember the first time (during training) I took off into a 500 ft (that was minimums back then) overcast. It was my second IFR training flight. I arrived thinking we'd do ground school and the instructor said nope, may as well get some actual. The temptation to look outside was strong. Too strong. I finally asked him to take the controls so I could see what it looked like. He said "there's not thing to see! We're in the soup" I said "I know, I want to see what that looks like". That was a long time ago and it stuck... I need to finish the rating. I've got the hours... but it's going to take a while to get back in the game.
Thanks again for a good description .
I can hear Joe Friday now Pull up...terrain Pull up... terrain Pull up ... terrain. I still miss the 66 Ford Fairlane with dual antennas. Thanks Joe and Bill
I'm a low time GA pilot (~3,000 hrs), but I believe it's worth mentioning TAWS (Terrain Awareness and Warning System) equipment relative to this accident. Most fundamental glass cockpits now-a-days have TAWS software available. I don't fly much without TAWS, even in the flatland of the Atlantic Piedmont.
Indeed, the Rosie path of destruction. Those first few hundred hours are very important! Thanks for your quick and thorough perspective!
I have a friend that is building a VAN. It has taken him 4 years of work. I asked him recently if he is still keeping up his pilots license and flying and he said he was taking a break. Glad to know about this....TY.
יוי
Good video tyvm
For the folks that have never seen that sea fog roll in down the cut of the bay..... It's mind blowing on the ground I couldn't imagine in the air.... you literally can reach into it and squeeze water out of the air!!!! Thick impenetrable heavy stuff
7:14 or perhaps they were taking photos - sounds to me like a spur of the moment decision in the cockpit to go there being so unprepared, but then made it out over the bridge. To me it looks more like they were manoeuvring to "see the bridge and take it in" and I can only imagine that with marine layers the bridge popping through the cloud would have been spectacular. I think they were just so consumed with this that things got away from the pilot. Would be interesting to find out if they were taking photos.