That's right, it's about oxygen outtake, and whether or not the system can meet that demand. It's also about water movement, and getting the oxygen to the lower part of the water (if you're worried about plants or bottom fish). Thanks for this =) To measure replenishment, you need to know the rates of depletion.
Apparently the water you used was already at equilibrium with atmospheric oxygen levels. So as much oxygen moves into the water from the air is equal to what moves in the other direction. Increasing the surface interface between air and water will have no effect on oxygen levels in the water. This is completely expected. It is like having three tents in the woods when it is 72 degrees outside, and insides of the tents are stabilized at 72 degrees to match outside temps. Then being surprised that the temperature in the tent stays at 72 when you ventilate it with the 72 degree outside air. Also if the tents are already hotter they would get colder over time just sitting there or with ventilation. It just happens faster with active ventilation. Now if you have a heat source in the tent and you want to cool it then ventilation is faster and better. Just like if plant roots use up oxygen so you want to replenish. Heck a better analogy would be if the tent fabric was slightly porous and you were inside breathing. Oxygen levels would drop and if not porous enough you would suffocate. Yes, if you never went inside such a tent then O2 levels would match outside air, and ventilatoon wouldn't change that. Start with low oxygen samples and do the experiment again. The bubbler and pump will cause O2 levels to rise faster up to but never exceeding 11. The opposite is also true. Bubble pure oxygen into your water until it rises to say 20. Then do experiment. The bubbler and pump will get it down to 11 faster than will happen with your control. But all three get down to 11 eventually.
Hi I have never measured the o2 levels when I use a air stone compared to straight/controlled water but I know after 24hrs plus. The PH level drops in the bucket with the air stone. Hope that helps
I think the problem is your testing the water after you stop adding oxygen. With DWC the roots are submerged in the water while the pump with air stone is running. Further more, I think the air stone or power head that is in the bucket is stirring the nutes for easier up take and adding oxygen to the water. If the water just sits the roots would eventually drown because the water isn't circulating and being replenished with oxygen. Also the roots grow bigger and faster because of the medium that it's in. Water is less restrictive than say, coco or soil. So roots are free to move around in more direction without being blocked by coco fibers or perlite, or what ever else is added to your soil mix.
It takes time for the oxygen to leave the solution. Unless he let it sit for 20 minutes after turning off the pumps then it's made no difference, in fact it may cause the test to show higher oxygen levels as the gas travels upwards through the water column and concentrates near the surface to be released.
pathogens that attack roots don't do well if you supply oxygen to the roots so always put bubblers in your buckets and avoid the headaches of root rot also try to keep root zone cooler than the ambient air in your growing area. happy growing
High levels of dissolved oxygen promote healthy root growth. ... When there's less oxygen in the water than there is in the plant, this reduces the permeability of roots to water, therefore reducing (even reversing) the absorption of nutrients. Levels of 8 mg/l or higher are generally considered to be good for greenhouse production and much higher levels, as high as 30 mg/l or more, are achievable and can be beneficial. If the DO levels are below 4 mg/l, the water is hypoxic and becomes very detrimental, possibly fatal, to plants and animals. For water, 1 ppm = approximately 1 mg/L (also written as mg/l) of contaminant in water, and 1 ppb = 1 ug/L (also written as ug/l). A measurement of 6 mg/L is the same as 6 ppm. Cold water holds more DO, Warmer water, levels are decreased.
I would say that the main issue is that your water temps are I. The 70s and water holds dissolved O² much better the cooler the temp is please do this test again with the water around 65 and see if there is a difference then . Great idea for a video though l
I really appreciate this. =Cool . I will look into this more. My first thoughts are >> how much dissolved O2 is possible for what conditions(temp + atm/bar). common sense says that oxygen does not stay in water, so the amount that is in there must be tiny. I would also think that if the dissolved o2 came from the air in the room then it would change with temperature and return with temperature. the concept of getting more o2 in the water is eehhh ... I dunno about that. I would first double check what snatcher420 was mentioning about turbulence... Sooo >> do a grow test = 3 tests . 1. = control >> Air stone is normal. 2 = Turbu >> put tub on top a magnetic stirrer. NO bubbles. mag-stir-kratky? 3 = inert bubbles >> use a safe inert gas in the air stone. Like argon , nitrogen. Might have to find a root safe inert gas.
Better would be to have a system that is known to be consuming a lot of oxygen, e.g. daily addition of a fixed amount of organic matter decomposing, a snail population, fish, whatever you want. Then an alternating crossover trial with one day on one aerating method, next day on the other, etc, and do it for a week and see if the statistical significance trends toward 0 or something higher.
There is almost no information online regarding dissolved oxygen xD it's kind of absurd, who's hiding all this info i'm perplexed haha. My hypothesis is just that, the oxygen dissolves into the water at the point where oxygen and water meets "obviously" and I assume that the more water surfaces you have exposed to air, the more O2 you can dissolved. Likewise, the more surface area of air you can pump into water, the easier it is for those small bubbles to come into contact with water that isn't saturated with 02 and encourage more of it to exchange into the water. I assume bubbling air through water or having pumps with spray bars / water aggitation on ponds and in hydroponics etc is all just creating more surface area for water and air to meet and create gas exchange between the 02 and the water. I have a feeling you could also use fine misters and mist water through PVC pipes or just use a trickle filter and get just as much if not more o2 dissolved than using a whole heap of oxygen airstones or water aggitation alone :D The urge to buy an oxygen meter is killing me because i have no reason to blow that much money on my own curiosity hahah
I haven’t even seen the results yet, but I would say you need to give the fluming a better setup, either with the tube higher from the water surface and/or a higher flow.
Looks like the control is already saturated with dissolved oxygen - so it will no longer absorb more. How about using a control water with low (about 2mg/l) dissolved oxygen.
@@HJTJ1997 with the waterfall from the chiller and with a constant top feed with drip rings that flow about 3 to 5 gallons a minut air stones don't add any more oxygen. But they do introduce molds and fungus into the water. Plus they are noisy and ppl lug up.
The water will give or take oxygen to or from the air at the air-water interface. It the rate it does this at depends on a number of factors, two of which are the surface area of the interface and the difference in oxygen levels between the air and the water. Water from your tap is likely already at equilibrium with the air in your house. This means that no matter what you do, you will not increase the oxygen in the water. You should find some way of reducing the oxygen in the water before starting this test. You could get some goldfish and drop them in each bucket and when they die, you can assume they used up all the oxygen.
@@GianCarloVictoria its not letting a fish die, its killing a fish. but if boiling removes the oxygen from water then I would agree with you: boil the water, spare the fish.
2:18 Think of it like a waterfall. The impact of water falling and hitting the surface water infuses air into the nutrient solution, as opposed directly injecting air bubbles with an air stone. At least thats my understanding, i may be wrong
I’m trying to find out how long it takes to oxygenate stagnant water. Meaning water that would kill your fish from lack of oxygen. Sooooo you need dead water for your experiment bro, like when a swimming pool becomes a green cesspool
lol...funny how i just bought the same dissolved oxygen kit and compared the cup to the color but your actually suppose to pour a drop on the white part of the card to compare.....
@@SmartGrowAutomation yes...there is a picture in the instructions showing exactly to dont compare the glass and to place a drop on the white area....I almost didn't see that part but trust me its there .... just contact the company and ask them ...👍
Overall i wasnt to happy with the test kit....im going to have to invest into a dissolved oxygen meter.....but check out this article on dissolved oxygen......most growers dont realize it is the best kept secret to growing......www.growertalks.com/Article/?articleid=22058
That's right, it's about oxygen outtake, and whether or not the system can meet that demand. It's also about water movement, and getting the oxygen to the lower part of the water (if you're worried about plants or bottom fish).
Thanks for this =)
To measure replenishment, you need to know the rates of depletion.
Apparently the water you used was already at equilibrium with atmospheric oxygen levels. So as much oxygen moves into the water from the air is equal to what moves in the other direction. Increasing the surface interface between air and water will have no effect on oxygen levels in the water. This is completely expected.
It is like having three tents in the woods when it is 72 degrees outside, and insides of the tents are stabilized at 72 degrees to match outside temps. Then being surprised that the temperature in the tent stays at 72 when you ventilate it with the 72 degree outside air.
Also if the tents are already hotter they would get colder over time just sitting there or with ventilation. It just happens faster with active ventilation.
Now if you have a heat source in the tent and you want to cool it then ventilation is faster and better. Just like if plant roots use up oxygen so you want to replenish.
Heck a better analogy would be if the tent fabric was slightly porous and you were inside breathing. Oxygen levels would drop and if not porous enough you would suffocate. Yes, if you never went inside such a tent then O2 levels would match outside air, and ventilatoon wouldn't change that.
Start with low oxygen samples and do the experiment again. The bubbler and pump will cause O2 levels to rise faster up to but never exceeding 11.
The opposite is also true. Bubble pure oxygen into your water until it rises to say 20. Then do experiment. The bubbler and pump will get it down to 11 faster than will happen with your control. But all three get down to 11 eventually.
Cool experiment and Thanks for sharing..
Hi I have never measured the o2 levels when I use a air stone compared to straight/controlled water but I know after 24hrs plus. The PH level drops in the bucket with the air stone. Hope that helps
I think the problem is your testing the water after you stop adding oxygen. With DWC the roots are submerged in the water while the pump with air stone is running. Further more, I think the air stone or power head that is in the bucket is stirring the nutes for easier up take and adding oxygen to the water. If the water just sits the roots would eventually drown because the water isn't circulating and being replenished with oxygen. Also the roots grow bigger and faster because of the medium that it's in. Water is less restrictive than say, coco or soil. So roots are free to move around in more direction without being blocked by coco fibers or perlite, or what ever else is added to your soil mix.
It takes time for the oxygen to leave the solution. Unless he let it sit for 20 minutes after turning off the pumps then it's made no difference, in fact it may cause the test to show higher oxygen levels as the gas travels upwards through the water column and concentrates near the surface to be released.
Add a air inline to the input of the water pump, you get nano bubbles 👍👍
Is it city water that has been chlorinated? Isn't chlorine an oxidizer? I know It oxidizes iron out of solution so it can be filtered.
pathogens that attack roots don't do well if you supply oxygen to the roots so always put bubblers in your buckets and avoid the headaches of root rot also try to keep root zone cooler than the ambient air in your growing area.
happy growing
High levels of dissolved oxygen promote healthy root growth. ... When there's less oxygen in the water than there is in the plant, this reduces the permeability of roots to water, therefore reducing (even reversing) the absorption of nutrients.
Levels of 8 mg/l or higher are generally considered to be good for greenhouse production and much higher levels, as high as 30 mg/l or more, are achievable and can be beneficial. If the DO levels are below 4 mg/l, the water is hypoxic and becomes very detrimental, possibly fatal, to plants and animals.
For water, 1 ppm = approximately 1 mg/L (also written as mg/l) of contaminant in water, and 1 ppb = 1 ug/L (also written as ug/l). A measurement of 6 mg/L is the same as 6 ppm.
Cold water holds more DO,
Warmer water, levels are decreased.
I would say that the main issue is that your water temps are I. The 70s and water holds dissolved O² much better the cooler the temp is please do this test again with the water around 65 and see if there is a difference then . Great idea for a video though l
I really appreciate this. =Cool . I will look into this more. My first thoughts are >> how much dissolved O2 is possible for what conditions(temp + atm/bar). common sense says that oxygen does not stay in water, so the amount that is in there must be tiny. I would also think that if the dissolved o2 came from the air in the room then it would change with temperature and return with temperature. the concept of getting more o2 in the water is eehhh ... I dunno about that. I would first double check what snatcher420 was mentioning about turbulence... Sooo >> do a grow test = 3 tests . 1. = control >> Air stone is normal. 2 = Turbu >> put tub on top a magnetic stirrer. NO bubbles. mag-stir-kratky? 3 = inert bubbles >> use a safe inert gas in the air stone. Like argon , nitrogen. Might have to find a root safe inert gas.
Better would be to have a system that is known to be consuming a lot of oxygen, e.g. daily addition of a fixed amount of organic matter decomposing, a snail population, fish, whatever you want. Then an alternating crossover trial with one day on one aerating method, next day on the other, etc, and do it for a week and see if the statistical significance trends toward 0 or something higher.
Maybe the kit you use to test the DO is not good enough
There is almost no information online regarding dissolved oxygen xD it's kind of absurd, who's hiding all this info i'm perplexed haha. My hypothesis is just that, the oxygen dissolves into the water at the point where oxygen and water meets "obviously" and I assume that the more water surfaces you have exposed to air, the more O2 you can dissolved. Likewise, the more surface area of air you can pump into water, the easier it is for those small bubbles to come into contact with water that isn't saturated with 02 and encourage more of it to exchange into the water. I assume bubbling air through water or having pumps with spray bars / water aggitation on ponds and in hydroponics etc is all just creating more surface area for water and air to meet and create gas exchange between the 02 and the water. I have a feeling you could also use fine misters and mist water through PVC pipes or just use a trickle filter and get just as much if not more o2 dissolved than using a whole heap of oxygen airstones or water aggitation alone :D The urge to buy an oxygen meter is killing me because i have no reason to blow that much money on my own curiosity hahah
So interesting! Thanks! 👍
I haven’t even seen the results yet, but I would say you need to give the fluming a better setup, either with the tube higher from the water surface and/or a higher flow.
Thank for your work and dedication.
Looks like the control is already saturated with dissolved oxygen - so it will no longer absorb more. How about using a control water with low (about 2mg/l) dissolved oxygen.
Also should incluxe temperatures as well
hey bro im wanting to grow my own but i dont know how to set it up can u do like a diy closet build please if so that would be great and i also subbed
Yes, check out this video here: ruclips.net/video/cZRRRj5F_b0/видео.html
I will soon upload a video covering how I set up my RDWC system.
Waterfall for the win Bob. Retun line from chiller into res should fall 4 or 5 inches. Top feed water rings into hydroton. No air pumps needed.
Hi mate whats the difference?
@@HJTJ1997 it eliminates the need for air pumps and air stones.
But does it bennefit the water? Ive seen air stones that relieces micro bubbles
@@HJTJ1997 with the waterfall from the chiller and with a constant top feed with drip rings that flow about 3 to 5 gallons a minut air stones don't add any more oxygen. But they do introduce molds and fungus into the water. Plus they are noisy and ppl lug up.
@@leeadickes7235 but doesn't the water eventually just flow down the roots and not "drop" into the lower res?
The water will give or take oxygen to or from the air at the air-water interface. It the rate it does this at depends on a number of factors, two of which are the surface area of the interface and the difference in oxygen levels between the air and the water. Water from your tap is likely already at equilibrium with the air in your house. This means that no matter what you do, you will not increase the oxygen in the water. You should find some way of reducing the oxygen in the water before starting this test. You could get some goldfish and drop them in each bucket and when they die, you can assume they used up all the oxygen.
Or you could just boil the water instead of letting a fish die
@@GianCarloVictoria its not letting a fish die, its killing a fish. but if boiling removes the oxygen from water then I would agree with you: boil the water, spare the fish.
Or you could boil the fish and make a dinner.
if your looking for better test method try removing the oxygen to begin with or reduse it i think boiling takes some out of it idk?
Thats a good idea for a future test
There’s no way control was reading above 10ppm. Looks like 8
Maranatha!
What is fluming
2:18 Think of it like a waterfall. The impact of water falling and hitting the surface water infuses air into the nutrient solution, as opposed directly injecting air bubbles with an air stone. At least thats my understanding, i may be wrong
I’m trying to find out how long it takes to oxygenate stagnant water. Meaning water that would kill your fish from lack of oxygen. Sooooo you need dead water for your experiment bro, like when a swimming pool becomes a green cesspool
Yeah, there are somethings I would do different if I did this experiment again.
lol...funny how i just bought the same dissolved oxygen kit and compared the cup to the color but your actually suppose to pour a drop on the white part of the card to compare.....
Are you sure? I didn’t see anything like that in the instructions.
@@SmartGrowAutomation yes...there is a picture in the instructions showing exactly to dont compare the glass and to place a drop on the white area....I almost didn't see that part but trust me its there .... just contact the company and ask them ...👍
@@josebrown5076 We must have different kits because I just checked mine and the instructions indicate to do just what I did in the video.
U r trying to oxygenate a saturated water the experiment itself is incorrect.
Overall i wasnt to happy with the test kit....im going to have to invest into a dissolved oxygen meter.....but check out this article on dissolved oxygen......most growers dont realize it is the best kept secret to growing......www.growertalks.com/Article/?articleid=22058
go to eBay buy a 4.99 "Venturi" add it to your fluming..
What would you expect to happen with one of those?
@@SmartGrowAutomation majic
@@SmartGrowAutomation check out this diy venturi ruclips.net/video/LJi6a_Ctr5A/видео.html
@@SmartGrowAutomation $4.99 eBay Venturi.
ruclips.net/video/DN5Wxzsv_84/видео.html
@@SmartGrowAutomation Question is now what size bubbles are you looking for on a micron level where they float to the bottom? ..