😻😻😻😻😻😻 It's a pity that I don't have such an opportunity to make it myself yet! But automatic swapping is what you need! It remains to install a RADIATOR for condensate - and again in the boiler! Then the VNO generator - and no pollution!
The viewers suggesting a gas test like nitrogen, should visit the steam museum in Medemblik in the Netherlands. Tucked away in a corner, there is a full sized boiler, or better, the remains of it. That boiler blew up. Its unimaginable how much force was excerted on the metal walls of that ex-boiler to make it shaped that way. That piece of twisted metal impressed me more than all the nice steam engines combined.
The reason for Hydrostatic testing is simple: Liquids are incompressible. Liquids can ~bear~ pressure, but cannot ~store~ energy in the form of pressure. Hydrostatically pressurized vessels will discharge incompressible liquid when the pressure is released, but this is because because the pressure vessel itself flexes outward under pressure (and the odd air bubble trapped here and there, hoses, seals, etc...), and when the pressure is allowed to escape, the vessel walls will relax and any trapped air will expand, forcing some liquid out. But the total amount of energy released is small and hence there is very little material displacement (Displaced material = vessel displacement under pressure minus relaxed vessel displacement). Even if the pressure vessel fails catastrophically during the hydrostatic test, it can't explode (though they can certainly go with a loud pop): the only energy stored in the pressurized system is the mechanical energy of the pressurized vessel, and the small amount of air bubbles trapped in it. Gasses, being compressible, do store energy, and once the pressure reaches the point of failure of the pressure vessel, will then further equalize (total energy of the system is energy stored mechanically by the pressure vessel plus the energy stored in the gas).
So cool to see it come to life, I know you had been very...skeptical... about the boiler and the whole deal at one point. Glad to see it be such a good surprise
Keith, I have found from experience that some folks cannot make the logical leap from "non-compressible" and apply it to the idea of "stored energy" which is really the crux of the matter. You did an excellent job explaining the non-compressible nature of liquids in the last episode assuming folks know the implications. As you well know, even a small volume of steam, air or other compressible gas has the ability to store enormous amounts of energy. That little "squirt" of water although at the same pressure, has very little in the way of stored energy. Thank you for your videos, I really look forward to each one.
As a fellow fan of the bahco adjustable, do you know they make a slim jaw version, they have ground the jaws to around 2-3 mm thick, and gets into place on locknuts etc (this is a factory version, not a hack!) i have bought one!
In my younger days I was a Merchant Navy engineer and was under a 2nd Engineer who would allow no adjustable spanners but Bahco to be used in his engine room.
I really like that hand pump, but sadly I agree with you, it just seems slightly too big. It looks more prominent than the pistons. I almost bought an old lathe last week because of this channel and all the great series.
I noticed the crank pin driving the water pump has several positions. If I am correct changing the position of the drive pin to the pump will alter the stroke and so the quantity of water pumped per stroke. This may well be a way of balancing the feed water. But being in a boat the checking of the water level may be difficult. If the bypass was open a large amount then altering the pin could very well be an option.
A good comment, there are options with the variable stroke, which is a very rare option to have . . . . but getting the bypass setting is easy enough as I will show later on.
This is my favourite type of engine.... It looks a bit of a dog but runs beautiful..... There's something wonderful... I had an old lorry and the engine looked a mess.. But a stab if the starter button had people gathering round to marvel at its smoothness.....
Inert gasses including nitrogen are used for testing leaks in all sorts of pipework. I've just plumbed in the diesel fuel line in my boat. I wish I tested it for leaks with nitrogen 1st :
your videos are very well made, and although i despise most videos with commentary(will they ever stop talking) yours is to the point- and the british humor takes up the rest of the slack. You should do a video on flash boilers for tether boats.
In have to speak in the videos to tell everyone what I'm doing :-)))) - I have never really got into Flash Steam, and almost all of my videos are aimed specifically at beginners to help them with this fascinating hobby of Miniature Live Steam & Model Engineering - plus Flash Steam is not the ideal part of the hobby for a beginner to start with anyway I don't think ......
So just have a public safety announcement at the beginning. 8B i can see your point though, this is definitely a specific part of the model steam hobby.
Bonjour Keith, Why would you dry the steam, I do not understand ? At 30/45 psi, a steam machine does almost not need oil to run correctly. What are the benefits of a dry steam compared to a wet one ? Amicalement, Raphaël
Mr. Appleton, I notice on several occasions, including Edith, there is just a tubing (silicone, I presume) slipped on the copper pipe while steaming an engine. At 60 PSI+ I would worry about it coming off, especially with live steam involved. Apparently is does not, silicone rubber being "sticky". Nevertheless...
This is very thick walled Silicone tubing and gives me no problems at all - it occasionally does come off but not with steam - just with compressed air. The heat seems to make it stick better - it is convenient and allows a quick "lash up" for test purposes to be made quickly
Keith, I believe i was misunderstood, I did not check any boilers with nitrogen, the testing I was referring to was at power plants, where finding the slightest leak was important I was asking, in a round about was if you could use a gas for the test which you told me not to do it. My error sorry
nitrogen has a large molecule and is sold to fill car tyres with, supposedly stays inflated longer. , helium has a small molecule and would find a leak much easier, and will leak out of rubber,! which is why they are usually mylar balloons for the kids
Ralph, that style of leak-checking is generally only done to test high-vacuum systems, or systems that deal with dangerous substances. There's not much benefit in doing it on a simple steam engine. It's sufficient to use the soapy-water trick, or just look to see where condensed steam is leaking out once running it with live steam. Would it work to fill the system with helium and use a helium leak-checker? sure. There's just no point in that expensive system for models.
where i work We built a riveted traction engine boiler and we did a cold hydro test using the same principle as you showed i the last video but we also did a hot hydro test which the boiler was filled with water at mains pressure 90psi and then we used a diesel burner heater aimed into the firehole and the water expanding from being heated brought it up to 200psi. Also on another note with pressure gauge siphons one of the steam engines i drive now and again had a problem with the pressure gauge and it turned out some of the scale had formed in the syphon and nearly blocked it so the gauge was working but it was operating slower than usual. After cleaning out the syphon it worked fine afterwards
A word about Nitrogen; In HVAC systems, we do use Nitrogen to test for leaks because it is truly "smaller" than air. AND you absolutely cannot test with water in an HVAC system. ANY moisture at all will destroy the system. - Plus, Nitrogen comes in tanks that are about 2000-5000 LPSI. In a system with a small amount of Freon added with 2500 psi behind it WILL find it's way out! That bit of Freon is used to aid the electronic "sniffers" to locate the leaks. -- But when it's time to "dump" the system, the BLAST of GAS is very dangerous and must be channeled through a High Pressure set of gauges with valves and hoses. If you don't control this violent release, a hose or fitting may shoot your eye out or KONK you on the head! --- I used to design and install Geo-Thermal heating systems for a living. ---
3:30 if this were a life sized steam boat engine or locomotive, heat would have slowly built up in the tubes and boiler since the firebox wouldn't have been able to produce a lot of heat quickly
Nitrogen? Wow. Anyhow, could we get a peek down the flame tube in the boiler? I would assume that there is a lot of surface area in there due to the tubes which would make it steam along with less gas to the burner.
The Nitrogen comment made me giggle. Not that it is really relevant to this, but the liquid - gas expansion ratio of Nitrogen is about 1:700. Which actually makes it very useful for filling gas pipelines before they are commissioned. Having normal air and natural gas in a pipe line is obviously not a good thing. But anyway, If your little boiler was full of liquid nitrogen and something gave. It would try to become 700 times it's size very quickly.. Running away, Monty Python style, would be inadequate in this case..
No, it is in the bottom of the boat and it works perfectly as it is. There is a lot of work to do on the boat itself, so any extra unnecessary work will be avoided . . .
This is so unusual! Nearly all your renovation projects have you encountering poor machining and workmanship; in this case, everything (sans appearance) seems to be top notch.
😻😻😻😻😻😻
It's a pity that I don't have such an opportunity to make it myself yet! But automatic swapping is what you need! It remains to install a RADIATOR for condensate - and again in the boiler!
Then the VNO generator - and no pollution!
The viewers suggesting a gas test like nitrogen, should visit the steam museum in Medemblik in the Netherlands. Tucked away in a corner, there is a full sized boiler, or better, the remains of it. That boiler blew up. Its unimaginable how much force was excerted on the metal walls of that ex-boiler to make it shaped that way. That piece of twisted metal impressed me more than all the nice steam engines combined.
The reason for Hydrostatic testing is simple: Liquids are incompressible. Liquids can ~bear~ pressure, but cannot ~store~ energy in the form of pressure. Hydrostatically pressurized vessels will discharge incompressible liquid when the pressure is released, but this is because because the pressure vessel itself flexes outward under pressure (and the odd air bubble trapped here and there, hoses, seals, etc...), and when the pressure is allowed to escape, the vessel walls will relax and any trapped air will expand, forcing some liquid out. But the total amount of energy released is small and hence there is very little material displacement (Displaced material = vessel displacement under pressure minus relaxed vessel displacement). Even if the pressure vessel fails catastrophically during the hydrostatic test, it can't explode (though they can certainly go with a loud pop): the only energy stored in the pressurized system is the mechanical energy of the pressurized vessel, and the small amount of air bubbles trapped in it. Gasses, being compressible, do store energy, and once the pressure reaches the point of failure of the pressure vessel, will then further equalize (total energy of the system is energy stored mechanically by the pressure vessel plus the energy stored in the gas).
So cool to see it come to life, I know you had been very...skeptical... about the boiler and the whole deal at one point. Glad to see it be such a good surprise
It makes me really happy that all the old PowerPlant can be used! Just goes to show that things built right stand the testify time...
Love the geared water pump, it eliminates the rough running of the steam engine by directly to the drive axle.
Keith, I have found from experience that some folks cannot make the logical leap from "non-compressible" and apply it to the idea of "stored energy" which is really the crux of the matter. You did an excellent job explaining the non-compressible nature of liquids in the last episode assuming folks know the implications. As you well know, even a small volume of steam, air or other compressible gas has the ability to store enormous amounts of energy. That little "squirt" of water although at the same pressure, has very little in the way of stored energy. Thank you for your videos, I really look forward to each one.
this is a nice engine indeed. running that smooth even without the flywheel.
That engine is very substance over form - and delightful to watch.
That's a most excellent steam plant, thuroughly impressed with both the boiler and engine. I'm jelly, if only all steam plants were like that.
Simply amazing! What a great little engine.
As a fellow fan of the bahco adjustable, do you know they make a slim jaw version, they have ground the jaws to around 2-3 mm thick, and gets into place on locknuts etc (this is a factory version, not a hack!) i have bought one!
In my younger days I was a Merchant Navy engineer and was under a 2nd Engineer who would allow no adjustable spanners but Bahco to be used in his engine room.
Can you make a drawing of the internals of this boiler? I would be interested to see how it looks compared to a typical one.
Thanks!
I will show it in detail in the next video. I don't have the time to make drawings - sorry
I didn't know if it would lend itself to a video. I'm glad it will!! Thanks for your time and effort. I really do appreciate what you do here.
Beautiful runner. Some engines out there they're really pretty and don't run for nothing. The opposite is neat to see.
Great work Keith many thanks
I really like that hand pump, but sadly I agree with you, it just seems slightly too big. It looks more prominent than the pistons. I almost bought an old lathe last week because of this channel and all the great series.
I want to see more of Edith in the future if possible.
There will be a lot more of the "Edith" project after Christmas - {:-))))
I noticed the crank pin driving the water pump has several positions. If I am correct changing the position of the drive pin to the pump will alter the stroke and so the quantity of water pumped per stroke. This may well be a way of balancing the feed water. But being in a boat the checking of the water level may be difficult. If the bypass was open a large amount then altering the pin could very well be an option.
A good comment, there are options with the variable stroke, which is a very rare option to have . . . . but getting the bypass setting is easy enough as I will show later on.
This is my favourite type of engine.... It looks a bit of a dog but runs beautiful..... There's something wonderful... I had an old lorry and the engine looked a mess.. But a stab if the starter button had people gathering round to marvel at its smoothness.....
Inert gasses including nitrogen are used for testing leaks in all sorts of pipework. I've just plumbed in the diesel fuel line in my boat. I wish I tested it for leaks with nitrogen 1st :
I really like this one... Function/form type thing...I think too many get it the other way around... But I'm not an expert that's for sure.
your videos are very well made, and although i despise most videos with commentary(will they ever stop talking) yours is to the point- and the british humor takes up the rest of the slack.
You should do a video on flash boilers for tether boats.
In have to speak in the videos to tell everyone what I'm doing :-)))) - I have never really got into Flash Steam, and almost all of my videos are aimed specifically at beginners to help them with this fascinating hobby of Miniature Live Steam & Model Engineering - plus Flash Steam is not the ideal part of the hobby for a beginner to start with anyway I don't think ......
So just have a public safety announcement at the beginning. 8B
i can see your point though, this is definitely a specific part of the model steam hobby.
Bonjour Keith,
Why would you dry the steam, I do not understand ? At 30/45 psi, a steam machine does almost not need oil to run correctly. What are the benefits of a dry steam compared to a wet one ?
Amicalement, Raphaël
Efficiency and greater economy of steam
Mr. Appleton, I notice on several occasions, including Edith, there is just a tubing (silicone, I presume) slipped on the copper pipe while steaming an engine. At 60 PSI+ I would worry about it coming off, especially with live steam involved. Apparently is does not, silicone rubber being "sticky". Nevertheless...
This is very thick walled Silicone tubing and gives me no problems at all - it occasionally does come off but not with steam - just with compressed air. The heat seems to make it stick better - it is convenient and allows a quick "lash up" for test purposes to be made quickly
2:37 my friend got very sick from hydrofluoric acid poisoning (from his flashlight batteries self destructing), not nice stuff :(
Keith,
I believe i was misunderstood, I did not check any boilers with nitrogen, the testing I was referring to was at power plants, where finding the slightest leak was important I was asking, in a round about was if you could use a gas for the test which you told me not to do it. My error sorry
I needed to clarify this for viewers as I didn't want anyone to try a Nitrogen as a boiler testing medium.
nitrogen has a large molecule and is sold to fill car tyres with, supposedly stays inflated longer. , helium has a small molecule and would find a leak much easier, and will leak out of rubber,! which is why they are usually mylar balloons for the kids
Thanks Keith, did everyone hear that no gasses ONLY water, listen to Keith
Ralph, that style of leak-checking is generally only done to test high-vacuum systems, or systems that deal with dangerous substances. There's not much benefit in doing it on a simple steam engine. It's sufficient to use the soapy-water trick, or just look to see where condensed steam is leaking out once running it with live steam. Would it work to fill the system with helium and use a helium leak-checker? sure. There's just no point in that expensive system for models.
where i work We built a riveted traction engine boiler and we did a cold hydro test using the same principle as you showed i the last video but we also did a hot hydro test which the boiler was filled with water at mains pressure 90psi and then we used a diesel burner heater aimed into the firehole and the water expanding from being heated brought it up to 200psi. Also on another note with pressure gauge siphons one of the steam engines i drive now and again had a problem with the pressure gauge and it turned out some of the scale had formed in the syphon and nearly blocked it so the gauge was working but it was operating slower than usual. After cleaning out the syphon it worked fine afterwards
A word about Nitrogen; In HVAC systems, we do use Nitrogen to test for leaks because it is truly "smaller" than air. AND you absolutely cannot test with water in an HVAC system. ANY moisture at all will destroy the system. - Plus, Nitrogen comes in tanks that are about 2000-5000 LPSI. In a system with a small amount of Freon added with 2500 psi behind it WILL find it's way out! That bit of Freon is used to aid the electronic "sniffers" to locate the leaks. -- But when it's time to "dump" the system, the BLAST of GAS is very dangerous and must be channeled through a High Pressure set of gauges with valves and hoses. If you don't control this violent release, a hose or fitting may shoot your eye out or KONK you on the head! --- I used to design and install Geo-Thermal heating systems for a living. ---
3:30 if this were a life sized steam boat engine or locomotive, heat would have slowly built up in the tubes and boiler since the firebox wouldn't have been able to produce a lot of heat quickly
Nitrogen? Wow.
Anyhow, could we get a peek down the flame tube in the boiler? I would assume that there is a lot of surface area in there due to the tubes which would make it steam along with less gas to the burner.
Yes I will show it in the next video .....
Thank you.
The Nitrogen comment made me giggle. Not that it is really relevant to this, but the liquid - gas expansion ratio of Nitrogen is about 1:700. Which actually makes it very useful for filling gas pipelines before they are commissioned. Having normal air and natural gas in a pipe line is obviously not a good thing.
But anyway, If your little boiler was full of liquid nitrogen and something gave. It would try to become 700 times it's size very quickly..
Running away, Monty Python style, would be inadequate in this case..
Kinda like the look of the engine, even as crude it is, are you going to clean it up?
No, it is in the bottom of the boat and it works perfectly as it is. There is a lot of work to do on the boat itself, so any extra unnecessary work will be avoided . . .
The transparent tube is a special glass !?
Yes it is Borosilicate (Pyrex) heat resistant glass usually.
@@keithappleton Thank you ! Good luck !😻
Great video as always - looks like a sweet setup. How long did it run for after the burner was turned off?
5 minutes or maybe longer.
Surly tap water would fur up the boiler?
No, where I live we have soft water . . .
Fair enough, my apologies
Isn’t it better to use distilled water so that you need to clean the boiler less
No, I use tap water.
If you lived where I do, you'd either install a water softener, switch to distilled water, or spend some time descaling your boilers.
How come there hasn't been a part 5???
Because I haven't made it yet - please be patient, I am dancing as fast as I can }:-)))
Keith Appleton oh ok I find your videos really helpful and interesting by the way keep up the good work!!!!
Maybe the engine was built not by an engineer but by a musician who plays mostly off key.
Jass&OtherStuff must have been a musician that likes dissonance
I think you should use dihydrogen monoxide. It's really thin, especially when heated.
Yes, and too much DHMO in the lungs can kill you... mixed with salt, it can even dissolve a car.
I got a little misty watching that model steam engine go.
Suicidal pressure testing with Nitrogen
Listen to what he says, water only. NO NITROGEN.
This is so unusual! Nearly all your renovation projects have you encountering poor machining and workmanship; in this case, everything (sans appearance) seems to be top notch.
Yes, it makes a change .....
Boilers always are tested with Water also pressure vessels for air are. These are never tested with air. Much too dangerous...