W&F Elimination for Sankyo Transport on Nakamichi DR-10: Achieving Optimal Readings
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Join me in this technical deep dive as I tackle the Wow & Flutter (W&F) issues on a Sankyo transport, using the Nakamichi DR-10 as an example. In this video, we'll explore the steps taken to achieve good W&F readings between 0.035% and 0.06%. Despite these improvements, there's still some flattering on the left capstan that I'm looking to address. I would greatly appreciate your ideas and suggestions for further reducing flutter.
🔧 Technical Deep Dive:
W&F Analysis: Understand the importance of Wow & Flutter in tape decks and how it affects audio quality.
Current Achievements: See the current W&F readings achieved, showcasing the improvements made so far.
Left Capstan Issue: Learn about the persistent flattering issue on the left capstan and the troubleshooting steps taken to mitigate it.
🛠️ Steps Taken:
Component Inspection: Follow the detailed inspection and maintenance of key components in the Sankyo transport to ensure optimal performance.
Lubrication and Alignment: Discover the impact of proper lubrication and alignment on reducing W&F, and see how these steps were implemented.
Belt and Roller Replacement: Understand the role of belts and rollers in maintaining consistent tape speed and reducing W&F, and see the replacement process.
🔍 Seeking Your Input:
Community Insights: Share your ideas and suggestions on how to further reduce flutter on the left capstan. Your expertise and insights could be the key to achieving even better performance.
👂 Share Your Thoughts:
Join the Discussion: Have you faced similar issues with your tape deck? What solutions worked for you? Share your experiences and tips in the comments below!
Don't miss this technical exploration of W&F elimination for the Sankyo transport in the Nakamichi DR-10. Like, share, and subscribe for more in-depth audio repair guides and restoration tips.
🔍 Tags: #NakamichiDR10 #SankyoTransport #W&FElimination #TapeDeckRestoration #VintageAudio #AudioRepair #TechnicalGuide
Did you get on top of your problem? To me it sounds like a bushing could be your problem.
How is the status of your supply pinch roller, does the rubber feel gripping good? Modern tapes are usually smooth and fine grained and they need an extra grip from the roller. You can verify with older more grainy tapes. I'd also consider the roller bushing as a culprit. But for my experience what causes that kind of flutter is the supply pinch roller not having the right grip on the tape.
I'd also consider a possible worn out roller metal pin (and they do wear out as they ride on top) or even a supply reel problem that for some reason is exacerbated under the weaker supply pinch roller pulling rather than the main take up roller unit. Also might by due to uneven spinning of the supply reel. I've seen bushings that are dry which is fine since plastic to metal is already a bushing in itself, I've seen bushings that are greased and also some with oil residue in what a I believe is the original factory service.
I've done the mistake of putting oil were it should have been in the past but I also solved with greases and oils the problem of squealing and whirring of the reels.
I consider this behavior to be absolutely normal. If the right (main pinch roller) is not involved, the takeup-spool alone provides the counter tension. And it is not supposed to put any tension on the tape whatsoever, but only to wind the tape back up (loosely). Without the right pinch roller, the tape is basically pushed over the head instead of being pulled. So it will never be able to run completely smoothly over it. It is therefore to be expected that this leads to WoW&Flutter. The left pinch roller is only responsible for improving the tape tension over the head... not for tape transport in general.
However… I had a very similar problem with a deck, in terms of suboptimal WoW & Flutter values. I had also already basically replaced all the parts in the tape path and could only reduce the problem, but not eliminate it. Just like you. Replacing the capstan bearings finally brought success. Apparently they were worn out.
@@MagicMaus29 this is a brand new Nakamichi deck, gift from my very good friend
@@hifirulezzz Then worn bearings are probably not the problem. Another thing you could try is to experiment with the tape tension settings. Sometimes wow and flutter is favored by an unstable azimuth. Dual capstan drives are a blessing if they are optimally adjusted. If not - a curse ;) But you probably know that as well as I do.
I find the Belts that are made today are to tight (small) and to thick, I have stretched them out to improve W&F. I also I test and sand the RT spindle if needed w this test you Should be able to put your finger on the pinch roller rubber and test how strong it is and it should be strong, the Lt spindle pinch roller, I had good luck w even lower /less spring tension. Getting it to go lower is a battle and can take a long time. good luck
Greetings! If the tension of the winding unit is reduced to 25-35 g / cm, then the detonation will be lower! There is no need to adjust such a force on modern cassettes! This not only affects detonation, but also increases wear of the winding gear motor, or rubber idler! ✋ With the slightest aging of the receiving pressure roller, the winding force of 45-50 grams will try to pull the tape out from under the roller, and this is detonation, plus tape warping, especially 110-120 minutes, with a thickness of 9 microns!
Hi,tell me on the dr10 is there a fg servo motor?
And another question, will it work with Teac c3?it is also fg servo according to the manual.
Thank you.
It is not servo. Regular DC motor. What will work with Teac? I did not get it.
What if the problem is not the capstan or the pinch roller. What if the problem lies with the surface of one of the heads? Or is the problem with the plastic tape guide on the left pinch roller. The last thing I can suggest is the back tension belt behind the faceplate that goes around the supply reel. Perhaps using a cassette with a transparent shell, and use a smart phone that can film in slow motion, film the tape on the right hand side of the cassette. Play back the video and observe the tape to see if there is any physical fluttering. This is a long shot but I do believe the reels are gear drive and not via a rubber idler, could it be a symptom of the gears meshing together that is causing the flutter, and the take up capstan is there to reduce/eliminate the flutter?
Did you check Power supply to the motor for level and ripple/noise?
sure I did. I even tried to add a filter cap on top of the motor, but it did not help.
Since your problem seems to be on the left side.
Have you checked the left idler wheel? I once had a cassette player lose power when it was in the play position. It was left that way for a while before I got to work on it. It ended up putting a small compression mark on the idler wheel. ( because it was left in the play position when it was powered off.) It gave the cassette player high flutter. I replaced the idler wheel and it went away.
seems you get problem with take up side, idler or gears (not sure which one is used in DR10) and motor.
Why do you believe so? Takeup is pretty fine. I am already achieved more than with other Sankyo transports I fixed. Just asking if any ideas to improve it further and reduce those jumps.
Hi, in your case it sounds like your pinch roller assembly. Check for trueness of arms, and rollers are perfect flatness and round. The amount of upward
force to the capstans. There is a gauge for this, The take up side has more Forse up pressure than the left side. Try applying a little more pressure
on the take up roller. Hope this helps you.
@Gordonseries385 I have measured and the force is fine. The left roller has 300 gramm pressure and the right is 500 gramm.
It's absolutely normal, the left pinch roller is not ment to have much grip, the right pinch roller is the main. You ruined your capstans polishing them. The designer did them as they are for some reasons. I don't understand why do you keep change belts instead of testing them before. I have a CR-4 with original belts and pinch rollers that have beter w&f than most of your decks with new belts (
wow, you must have magic belts 😂
Rubber parts are wear parts. They are not designed to last 30, 40+ years. If you want to restore a deck (future-proof!) you should of course replace them (assuming you get a quality replacement).
@@paulmon4077Yes, I do! Do you mind? 🤣
@@MagicMaus29 Well, most of my belts are built to last for >30 years. 😉 All I replaced are idler tyres, back tension belt (where available) and pinch rollers, in some cases. But none of my decks required new capstan belt.
@@paulmon4077 I have a CR-4A with original belt that exceeds (is lower than) original factory W&F. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. On the other hand, a classic mech Nak 480's original belt was way out of spec. Best new belts I've found are PRB FRSP's but W&F is generally much higher unfortunately. I have a CR-4 (multivoltage) that needed a new belt (was not original) and I'm lucky to get twice the original W&F specs with PRB. Same with a trio of CR-3A's. Wish I had the original belts for all my Nak's, but unfortunately most of them had "replaced belts" as a selling point.
Left flyweel out of balance?
@lmkan in that case it would be wow, not flutter. I think the left pinch roller can't keep the takeup reel tension in that case.
@@hifirulezzz Depending on what unbalance it can be flutter as well. There's at least 3 types of unbalance that can occur in the flyweel and one of them can cause higher dynanamic resonance in combination with pinch roller bearing clearance heard/measured as flutter.
Sorry I mean capstan wheel rubber
nice one, from my experience the left capstan (if right roller is down) always has hudge flutter on many decks even direct drive like technics or sony. generally it might be the torque clatch on left side which is via another belt and then clutch and i think this design is not great compare to felt and spring as in most of the decks. in all sankyo transport im experience high w&f.