As a mechanic, based on the information given, I suspect this vehicle was in deep, muddy water. The clues that I picked up on were, for starters, the rear differential limited slip locking the rear wheels when not required (the on ramps). This typically indicates the differential has water (muddy water) intermixed with the lubricant. This is easy to determine by draining the differential. A intermix will show as chocolate milkshake colored oil and there will be rust developing on the internals. If this is the case, it explains why the unit is locking up unexpectedly......the rust is binding the locking section of the unit. The presence of water would indicate the unit was submerged below the level of the differential breather tube (30") and was in that condition for several minutes or longer. The next thing that got my attention was electrical concerns developing (not the alternator) within about 90 days of the alternator replacement. This is a indicator of various electrical connectors that had been submerged for a period long enough for the water to overcome the water 'resistant' connectors, and are now corroding to the point of losing the electrical connection within. Lastly, the fact that the owner was required to pay a deductable for the alternator replacement, which, if it had failed due to a material or workmanship concern, should not have a requirement for repair. If it was a failure due to M&W it would be covered under the Bumper to Bumper 3yr/36k warranty and no deductable would have been called for. This charge is an indicator that the dealer did a goodwill repair, not a regular warranty repair. If I am correct about water damage, this vehicle has many more problems to come. I contend the machine was abused, and not used within its design parameters. That's my $.02
I'm hardly an expert, especially on all the electronics in newer vehicles, but I figured that if the axle needed to be replaced it had to have mechanical damage that couldn't result from electrical problems. Same for the radiator.
I agree, this sounds like an operator problem not a QC issue, people that go deep fording/mudding/driving through sea water deserve 100% of all the electrical malfunctions
The Jeep Gladiator Renegades have an electronic locker, not mechanical limited slip. Since it has electrical problems it sounds like it's being electronically locked when it shouldn't be.
I called a dealer to schedule a warrantee repair on a new 1970 El Camino. They asked what was wrong with it. I responded, rear crank seal leaks and the rear axle pinion bearing is howling. After a long pause and voicing a lot of disbelief they responded with "well bring it in tomorrow morning and we will look at it". I dropped it off as scheduled and was very surprised when they called 5 hours later to say I was correct and that both items were fixed. They also washed it and filled the gas tank. Never had such outstanding warrantee service from anyone since then. Sold truck to a friend 112,000 miles later without any other major failures.
There was a recall on gladiator axles due to a manufacture not adding axle lube into the axle. I got a notice in the mail for that. It said that the axle could lock up at speed causing an accident.
1. It's the driveshaft going to the rear axles, not the axles. The driveshaft was manufactured via the supplier without grease, and thus could fail, but not leading to locking/seizing of the rear axles. 2. In this individual's case, the electronic locking differential "locks", not "seizes."
@@ozzieosborne7676 That is correct. The axles (more accurately, the differential assembly) are fine on the gladiators, but the driveshaft assembly which is unique to it, had a run of ones assembled w/o grease, (since it comes as an assembled unit) thus leading to a rash of failures and thus the recall. www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2019/09/16/2020-jeep-gladiator-recall/2344833001/
I had a 1990 Jeep with a 4 cyl engine and 5-spd transmission that I wheeled all the time. Mud, water, sand, trails... Everything. (This was northern Ohio) It was also a daily driver. I only ever had 3 problems as a result of wheeling it: 1. A flat tire caused by an actual railroad spike, when I was wheeling along an old railroad bed. I actually had the tire booted at a truck stop, which is where they put a large internal patch on the tire. (The spike had gone through the tread, not the sidewall) I drove those tires another 10k+ miles before donating them to a friend's Jeep build. 2. Another flat tire, when I broke through the ice on a mud hole and a piece of ice sheared off the valve stem. (I switched to steel stems after that.) 3. Getting stuck. But if you ain't getting stuck, you ain't wheeling. Forget warranty issues... The idea that you can't wheel a freaking RUBICON without breaking it is absurd, and an indication that they're putting too much gratuitous electronic crap in them these days. Oh, and I NEVER had an alternator issue. They were using the classic GM alternator at the time. Actually, I should say that I had to replace the alternator a couple of times in the several years I owned it for a worn out bearing. It cost about $35 at the autoparts store. But that's not what was going on here. Bearings will squeal for a long time before failing completely, and there is no way you wouldn't know. It's VERY loud.
Had a friend that has a wrangle. The engine ended up seizing. The dealer claimed that because he went off-road, it voids the warranty. He called corporate. Corporate said the trucks are "trail rated" and the warranty is not void. The dealership kept fighting with him. Corporate sent a new engine to the dealership. And they refused to do it. He went to a different dealership that corporate recommended and had no issues there. They gave him a new wrangler to drive while it being fixed.
Ever drive down a wet road with water spraying off to the side? There is just as much water being sprayed under the car and into the engine compartment.
Little FYI, this Jeep was submerged in muddy water and broke down. It had to be towed out of the mud and into the shop in this condition so it was pretty obvious what happened on the vehicles arrival.
Last time I went through a mud pit in my Wrangler (1993) the mud pit was about 2 feet deep. Enough mud got onto the radiator to cause it to not allow much airflow through to cool the engine so I had to stop every couple miles on the 10 mile drive to the closest self car wash after getting off the trail to let it cool down. After using the pressure washer on the radiator for a while, I drove off normally and didn't have to do any other repairs or maintenance. I guess these new Jeeps aren't build as well as they were 28 years ago...
… I saw it with an mrap that had a broken axel. In Iraq. In 2009. Their command wouldn’t let us tow them out of a hostile town because it was covered under warranty & towing it would void it. We called them stupid, and for the record, left them to live or die based on their own stupidity.
If you buy a tank, get mud on the alternator, and expect to perform a warranty claim while in combat you're going to be further out of luck that the Jeep owner in this story. A little mechanical sympathy might help.
In 1983 my father bought a brand new GMC pickup. The dealer refused to repair any of its many covered defects. His excuse was my dad " fast talked" him into selling it too cheap. He tried other dealers, no help. It leaked copious amounts of oil from the engine transfer case and both differentials. The transmission didn't leak but the shift linkage fell off on the ground. Also the carburetor and distributor were defective. He contacted GM they refused to cover any of those things. To this day I won't purchase any new GM product. I've have also vetoed the purchase of GM products by places of employment. GMAC tried to purchased the mortgage on my brother's house. He made it clear he would immediately refinance his house if they went through with it. I think many of the difficulties GM has experienced over the years are related to their dishonesty. Probably the only reason they are still in business is because as illustrated here none of them are decent.
So, let me get this clear. They are selling a vehicle that is marketed for off road use but it dies with some mud. Surely, if some mud can splash onto the alternator, and if the failure of the alternator destroys/damages other electrical components, then I would say that the design was defective and that the vehicle is not fit for purpose. If the car was submerged in mud to the degree they claim, then there would be other very obvious signs. The real answer here is never to buy a Jeep since they are deceptive.
If your new Porsche overheats from extended track use while under warranty, should Porsche repair free of charge? There’s a line somewhere in between general marketing and real world use. If dust from the trail caused a failure I’d agree with you, just as if one attempt at redline broke a Porsche. But excessive amounts of mud? I can see this from both sides.
@@instarand yes, but do we have any actual evidence of excessive amounts of mud? And where is the line for 'excessive'? I grew up living on a farm in one of the muddiest parts of the UK. I learned to drive off-road on multiple vehicles. If you get into 'excessive' mud, there is usually a lot of evidence of it, such as it intruding inside chassis components and being caked under body panels. Additionally, pictures of the car covered in mud are also not proof since other passing off-roaders could have sprayed it over the body. The biggest problem here is that, for a person expecting to use an off-road car, off-road, the accusations and process are lacking serious credibility.
@@mpmansell I also grew up on a farm in the country in the UK. Mud was everywhere, and I don't think there was any vehicle that didn't have mud on it. If the mud was excessive then, if you tried to go through it at speed, it would have ripped out the bottom of the jeep. It would be like the chassis hitting a wall... Somehow I think the report in that case would have been along the lines of "chassis and body seem to have separated."
@@ljisbister3102 Then I guess that series Land Rovers and old Toyotas are much, much, tougher than newer series Jeeps :) *EDIT*: Or, maybe, can't drive as fast :D
"Read the fine print; it's fun." - Steve Lehto and every nerd lawyer ever. Love it. As for the Jeep, everyone knows it belongs at the mall. I'll keep my TJ, thanks.
Had a seat that was broken on a 1 month old car brought it to a dealership and they said it was wear and tear. I brought it to a second dealership and they fixed it under warranty and was like yeah we have had few of these issues.
Dodge/Jeep electronics going wonky is a engineering feature. Ours had the black box under the hood go bad, which holds all fuses. Fix: whack with a rubber mallet
I took my Jeep in for a slightly bent rear axle. They denied warranty work "due to obvious signs of rock crawling". The "obvious sign" was a single scratch on a skid plate.
I bought a brand new Wrangler back in 2000. I went on a trip to Michigan, from my home state of Ohio, to meet up with some fellow off road enthusiast. We ran a few trails that entailed crossing muddy/sandy streams with water up to the hood. Once the week end was over I drove back home to Ohio. I got about 50 miles from home when the Jeep just died on Interstate 75. A very nice State Trooper stopped and got me a tow truck that took my Jeep to the nearest dealer. Turns out I was driving on the battery most of the trip home since the alternator died due to mud and sand getting inside it. Jeep/Chrysler decided sealed alternators cost too much and they went with a cheaper unsealed model. The dealer tried to tell me it wasn't covered under warranty. I promptly picked up a magazine in the waiting area that had an ad advertising new Jeeps. It showed a Jeep in muddy water up to the hood and underneath the picture is said "we are just testing the radio". By publishing this ad Jeep was admitting that they expect Jeep owners to drive through muddy water up to the top of the hood. I asked the service manager "just how do you think a judge is going to rule after seeing this ad?" They replaced the alternator under warranty and cut their losses.
I once had a detour due to a bridge washing away and drove a rental long wheelbase Sprinter van through mud. 300km later the van's side was still covered to the roof at the back (triangle white and the other triangle mud) and had no issues ever when talking to the ladies at the rental co., other than jokes about 4x4-ing in a Sprinter.
I bought a ford explorer in '95, and i most definitely abused it starting on week 1. But It's not a mud buggy, it's a consumer sport vehicle. The engine compartment isn't sealed against water and mud. This guy's truck did have improved waterproofing, but some things are going to be exposed since you're not paying a premium for the mudbuggy quality protection. The alternator in particular is a delicate part, it has a belt running to it, MUST have ventilation for cooling, and has delicate parts inside. It might be able to shake off some water, but mud's a problem. Sand would be no different. The alternator is placed very high on the belt route to help protect it from water, mud, and sand. If you're offroading hard enough to splash mud up onto your alternator's air intakes, you've gone too far for a consumer-grade (or even "pro-sumer" grade) product. It'd be like buying a high end lake boat and taking it out in the Atlantic and complaining it can't handle the 30 foot swells in a storm. Know your limits, and use common sense.
I bought a jeep new in 99, it died in 2016. Had almost 300k miles on it. I e driven it off-road from Maine to upper michigan. I now own a Hyundai. Still would like to find an older jeep though. But the prices on them are stupid.
I was in the third camp before you even brought it up...lol. I must honestly say that I do believe that the first dealership tried a fast one on the client and knew that their assessment would be questioned by the manufacturer. I would also be inclined to think that they never put their assessment on the system else the second dealership would have picked it up. I think the first dealership was pissed because the client went for a second opinion which they knew would expose their assessment as being over the top and subsequently submitted cause for voiding warranty. As it turned out the second dealership felt that only one of the items quoted by the first dealership needed to be replaced and we should note that the additional items failed later. Items like the brake light should be waterproof in which case mud would not have been able to get inside. Electronics generally should also be waterproof which would also exclude the ingress of mud. As far as the diff and related equipment is concerned...it is one of the lowest extremities of a car and could reasonably be expected to be protected from mud damage because even gentle off-roading will result in mud getting onto the entire drive train. This isn't unusual or classified as abuse. My honest view is that the owner of the vehicle did go a bit extreme but based on the marketing of the vehicle, I'd have expected it to be able to handle this use. Off-road tyres will also throw up a lot more mud than conventional road tyres, so mud getting in everywhere should reasonably have been expected by the manufacturer seeing as it is an off-road vehicle that leaves the showroom fitted with off-road tyres. I will give you an example of where a Jeep gets as much, if not more mud splashed all over every year as the snow starts melting without being abused and that is on the RUclips channel Red Poppy Ranch ruclips.net/video/VEyP2IkpK9c/видео.html Had I been a lawyer in the US I would have taken this case for the owner because the manufacturer's marketing clearly creates a misleading impression over the quality of their product. With the exception of the alternator, every other item that failed should not have been affected by mud ingress. Mud is a lot more viscous than water and should not have been able to penetrate any of the items that failed other than the alternator. The Jeep actually comes with a factory fitted splash guard under the engine compartment to protect it from excessive water spray on sensitive components and this type of spray can come from a puddle spraying up while travelling at speed on the freeway. Water spraying like that can have enough force to bypass seals and cause corrosion or compromise electrical circuits. The clearance between those sealing surfaces on the electrical components are however of sufficient tight tolerance as to not allow the much higher viscosity mud through which is why all the references in the warranty document pertains to water and doesn't mention mud. I honestly believe that the first dealership was trying to pull a fast one and the manufacturer saw an opportunity to avoid an expensive warranty claim by blurring the lines of their warranty descriptions.
I work for a dealer (not an FCA affiliated dealer) and I can tell you it’s not the dealers call to void a warranty. We can deny a warranty claim for a specific repair if we have good reason to but only the manufacturer can actually put a status on a car that will potentially void the warranty. I can tell you that in my experience, it takes a lot of work and hard proof to get a status put on a vehicle. I also have friends that regularly wheel their Jeeps and have never had any warranty issues even when taking their Jeeps in for repair without cleaning them off.
I remember buying a new 97 Jeep in 1996. Took it to Hawaii with me for 4 years. The interior got rained on - impossible not to happen in Hawaii - water got inside the steering column and created an electrical short. This happened twice. Thankfully, Jeep repaired it both times by warranty. Years later, they finally installed rubber covers around the steering column.
Could be that lot of the electrical issues may have been caused by them cleaning the engine compartment and saturating the electronics with a pressurized washer.
Had a 1980 or 81 Datsun (Remember those?) first-generation 4-wd pickup. Got a letter when it was 3-4 months old: Being recalled for front wheel bearing seals. Single-lip seal would be replaced with double-lip seal. Until replaced, warranty would be voided if truck was operated in water, mud, sand, snow, ice, or any other similar conditions. So I bought a 4-wd vehicle that could only be operated on dry, paved roads! It wasn't until month seven that they got the parts to replace the seals.
They don't have to give you a warranty at all, so I can't see a legal problem with a warranty that has a deductible. That said, deductibles tend to be found on extended warranties, not the normal manufacturer's warranty that covers a new vehicle. Just like your insurance coverage, a higher deductible means a lower purchase price.
I think what you mean by "deductible" is the fact that they can choose not to cover repairs. If the manufacturers were not able to decide what they will cover and in what cases they will cover it, there would be people deliberately destroying components to be replaced for free, and the manufacturer could not say a word about it.
Warranty repairs are free (in my experience) but the deductible is part of the extended warranty which is really more of a service agreement. At least that’s how it was with my Jeep.
The issues described by the owner sound related in that there seems some sort of communication problem between the computer and actuators\sensors. 2 points come to mind, 1) the vehicle was diving fine for 3 months after the alternator was replaced and 2) A full diagnostic was not performed on the subsequent return of the vehicle to the dealership. I bet if the dealership took a close look they might find a loose connector.
I checked out a Gladiator at a Jeep store over the summer. Looking underneath the truck, it had an undertray and various skidplates. It likely took quite a bit of effort to get so much mud into the engine bay as to damage multiple components. Just ran a quick picture search for Gladiator motors; the alternator is easy accessible from the top. This brings us back to the question as to how the mud got there in the first place.
If you drive through any mud, you would be surprised where it goes. Ive had mud on the roof just from a muddy driveway, on a jeep that the roof is around 70 in high. Bigger tires make this issue worse.
I never forget getting my first brand new 4 x 4 and taking it off road. Just listening to the little trees and stuff scrape along the brand new sides, AHHH GOOD TIMES
In 2000 I bought a new Wrangler with a 3 yr/36k warranty. At 24k the clutch failed and I expected a warranty replacement. The vehicle had never been taken off road- it was a grocery getter. Dealer stated that manual transmissions had only a 12.5k warranty (surprise, Mr. Chump!); I opted to have an independent shop make the repairs. My strongly worded letter to the Jeep CEO resulted (eventually) in a cash reimbursement for the cost of a clutch kit.
If you hit a mud puddle hard enough to damage an alternator, you were likely not fording that puddle 'with ease'. It sounds like he was driving it like he stole it and hadn't prepared it for the beating.
Example, while trail riding in my 2010 Jeep Wrangler JK the trail became covered by water, shallow at first but got progressively deeper the further in we got. Moving slowly and cautiously we proceeded, with dry terrain in site the depth rapidly increased to hood level, I had a bow wave. No stopping and no turning back at this point. Thankfully the depth did not go deeper and we made it through to the dry terrain, I stopped, left the engine running and got out to access the situation. water was pouring out of the radiator, frame rails and any void water possibly could have entered. Once satisfied no serious damage had occurred, no water ingested into the engine we continued with no ill affect. I would have to estimate 30 inches exceeded as my tires are 33's and the hood line is 8" above that point. Yes had I been traveling at a higher rate of speed I seriously doubt the outcome would have been the same. I have enjoyed countless hours crawling around in my Jeep and this occasion is probably the most extreme example I have encountered to date, I use my jeep, I do not abuse my Jeep. Yeah it's trail rated.
That's why you wash it out. I've mudded truck's and atv's for years without issues. Of course they were not Chrysler products though, thats why I didn't have problems.
I work for a municipal fleet and we will never buy another Mopar product again, because they will NEVER stand behind their warranty. Time after time, there was always an excuse as to why they could not cover a repair. Last straw was a spun bearing race in the rear axle housing. Their fix was to use some high temp silicone as a bearing retainer. They said it only needed to make it past warranty and the housing would then be our problem.
@@sweetroscoeful If driving their car on track voids the warranty, then mentioning that their customers "can" take their cars to the track is disingenuous, at best. After all, they are not offering anything more than McClaren is. It is merely a marketing ploy that boils down to, "You can take our cars to the track, but you will be stuck with any related costs and repairs, just like the McClaren owner". I have nothing against Hyundai, they make better cars than Chrysler, yet this marketing ploy is rather transparent. Worse, they are actually inviting people to be left on the hook by taking it to the track, while suggesting they will be covered, if they do not read the fine-print. If they will honour their warranty for a customer who races their car at a track, as the marketing more than hints at...then disregard the above, it only applies if racing voids their warranty.
I’ve had both a Jeep commander and a Ford Bronco from the eighties. With the bronco the owners manual says driving through deep mud and water is not recommended. Should it occur you should bring the vehicle in as soon as possible to change the axle fluids and inspect the wheel bearings. Failure to do so will void the warranty. At least Ford would explain why it was necessary and give you a remedy to maintain the warranty. The one difference was everything wasn’t computer driven. With the Jeep everything had electrical connections that you’d think would be designed to block water intrusion but obviously isn’t. During the time I drove the Jeep I had to replace two alternators and a couple batteries with an aftermarket warranty. After this point went awhile between using a CD player. When I used it the rear wiper would malfunction and run continuously even with the ignition off. When I disconnected the fuse to it the engine would die and it wouldn’t restart until I put the fuse back in. Because it was a full time four wheel drive I never had the confidence to take it off-road. Jeep electrical systems are so screwed up I don’t think they need to be abused to screw up. For the bronco when it didn’t have electrical engagement on the drive train it was flawless. My point is that electrical sensors are best left off 4x4’s. When the army jeeps were first developed they showed training films of them traveling through mud and water and they always worked. Not today’s Jeep though. You better not count on everything working the day after you drive off the lot.
As somebody who works on ATVs I agree. You would be amazed how many people come in after they submerged there ATV and complain about something electronic. They always try to pull a fast one as there is very little integrity left these days. I Can usually tell if its been submerged. There are tell tale signs. Its an ATV not a boat. I then walk over to the PWC section and say maybe you should buy one of these. LOL..... Im an ass.
Thanks for letting me know about Jeeps. I will not be buying a Jeep. Too bad for me because I like them. But, I refuse to buy products from companies that do not stand behind their products. Steve you have become a great source for me to find out about bad companies. Thank you for this great service. Corporations of the world should pay attention to you and change their ways based on what you say.
Bought a 2015 Rubicon for winter use only (370Z for summer) and after 1 year needed an alignment. The dealer said that they could not get it back to spec without camber bolts. They wanted $600 to do they fix... I lost my mind on them. Told them to fix it under warranty because it has never been off the asphalt and only had 600 miles. Had to fight to get it done. Bought 2 WRX Ru's less than a year later... super happy that we did.
Back in the late 90's I did loads of quite extreme off roading/trail driving, through water (water well over the bonet), mud just as deep, I had to regularly winch my Suzuki SJ410 out of all sorts of mud and water and ditches, and not ONCE did it ever have problems with mud or water on any of the electronics. If ANY car company claim to have an off road/ trail capable car, I would expect it to at least be capable of shrugging off a bit of mud, and if it can't then I would consider that false advertising.
I’ve had mud on the roof of my Jeep. Had so much mud under it I had mud coming out for months every after several undercarriage washes. Still running fine. You have to the off road skid package tho.
As someone who owns an older modified Jeep and has taken it mud bogging, I can understand the manufacturer at least being hesitant on covering it. But on the other hand they do advertise them splashing though some significant mud. One of my friends thoughts on mudding (and its true) 2 hours of fun followed by 4 hours washing and 5 years later it still dropping dirt in your face from what got missed.
Just in your description of the issues the Jeep was having, I said to myself “they sank that bitch”... then I got to the part where the dealer said “vehicle was submerged “... yep
The vehicle is defective if a splash of mud caused by the vehicle itself can cause damage to the vehicle. That you CAN get mud in the alternator is itself an indication that it was defective from the start
If you pay attention to the advertising you should notice that they tend to use nice pretty places. That means the snow is fresh and clean, and the streams are usually fairly clear, with mountains in the background. Can you find an official advertising photo that shows a jeep knee deep in real mud?
If you drive on a slippery surface the driven wheels will spin, throwing up material you are driving through, i.e. mud, gravel, water etc., into the interior of the engine bay. These product may be less than an inch deep but the mess it makes can be extensive. Also, all vehicles have inner wheel arches to prevent splashed up material from getting into nooks and crevices.
I am wondering how she got mud on the alternator, with the splash shielding Jeep builds into their vehicles, which is even more extreme in Rubicon models with added skid plate protection. I have been mud bogging in my Jeep and mud could not get mud in the engine compartment much less any where near the alternator. What did she have to do to get mud on the alternator? Just a bit of Background, I have owned and driven Jeeps since the late 1960's. I was a licensed master mechanic at an AMC/JEEP/CHEVROLET/Mercedes/Volkswagen/Rolls Royce Dealership for well over a decade. Most of the work I did on Jeeps, including my own, was owner caused. Such warranty work as was done was usually minor, except in a few situations where Jeep got defective parts from manufacturers, for example in the 76 & 77 model years with Prestolite ignition systems prone to failure due to a tiny wire being stuck into a heavy plug, causing the wires to break combined with a vacuum advance system prone to rapid failure of the diaphragms. I made a lot of money retrofitting Jeeps with a standard point system distributer, or installing a more reliable electronic ignition system, such as the Motorcraft system used in 78 and later Jeeps of that era.
I have welded several frame rails on CJ 5's & 7's that had completely cracked vertically beneath the firewall to the rear of the engine and suspension. I suspect twisting from off road flex but what's perplexing is they were all on the passenger side rail.
Jeep told us our Cherokee had been SUBMERGED in water for at least A MONTH and refused to do any further work on it. EVER. FOR ANY REASON. 2 years later we were told by another dealer the rubber gasket that was supposed to be around the main wiring bundle through the firewall WAS MISSING AND WAS NEVER INSTALLED. It had chafed on the sheet metal.
@@earlmarshall6543 I'm 69 years old. What is called "common sense" now is not very good compared to the "common sense" of 50 years ago. Most people now seem to be oblivious to reality. Good Luck, Rick
Love the shirt - I want one. This story reminds me of the issue with car warranties being canceled due to racing. Autocross meets that definition but is intended to be within "typical" driving for the stock classes. The rumor was that some companies checked for Autocross results to end warranty coverage and some clubs started using pseudonyms for the drivers.
I would have been in the 3rd camp. I'd have washed the thing before taking it in,but I have seen hardcore offroad enthusiasts leave the mud on their vehicle for days--as a badge of honor.
I see kids riding around with their jeeps covered in mud and I mean covered and they have a snorkel on them and they think that they're bullet proof Having had to work on a four wheel drive Ford pickup that had been used And abused In the mud There was a 1/2 inch of dried mud All packed up in the frame rails and there was no way without crawling under their with a pressure washer that they could ever get that clean.
So I had to go and find the original post from this guy, I’ve had my stock 99 Durango 2wd covered in more mud going down the dirt road I used to live on after a good storm.with no negative repercussions to the electrical system. Or even the time I made a wrong turn and ended up window deep in the river (my first week living in a new area) The owner (He/she) was splashing through some muddy water. Based on how there aren’t any chunks of mud. I spend too much time at mud bogs and trail riding. My poor little daily driver car (not the Durango) gets covered in muddy water dang near worse than that going down the roads here in florida during a good storm. It’s only got 300k miles and runs like a top.
Many jeeps I've owned have had factory and aftermarket devices to stop mud and even large rocks from going where they don't belong. If the vehicle was in fact trail rated would they not have used the widely available and produced splash guards that prevents that type of damage. I know for a fact the 91 jeep can ford over 48 inches of water stock and they only thing damaged is the speakers and perhaps the upholstery. Its been driven up mountains with tons of mud and over 6ft of hard packed snow. Its been rolled end for end, over 100,000 miles of ROUGH trails. Rolled end for end by my sister. It will start at -50 below. Thing is bulletproof
I had a dealership in MD threaten to void it if I didn't shut up and pay for the repair. This was after they had already approved a warranty repair, but the part wasn't in. The dealership's 4x4 shop manager told me about this spot to check out. I went that weekend, and the next week when the part was in, they denied to cover it under warranty because there was mud on that little strip where the windows go down. oh yeah, the issue was from some sort of coolant reaction from the new HOAT vs OAT coolant that was new that year, or casting sand. But they tried saying it was from MUD getting into the coolant system.
Steve, I was under the impression that warranties couldn't be "voided" - that the manufacturer had to show that a specific issue wouldn't be covered due to noncompliance by the driver. But while tampering with the emission system might allow them to deny warranty coverage on your engine, they couldn't deny coverage on something unrelated like your door falling off.
One common element all these issues have is the electronics. If the alternator failure resulted in an undervolt or overvolt condition, the computer/electronics could have had a very bad time.
Should this happen, then it is a design problem. Sensitive components should have protection circuits to minimise this class of problems. Not including them is either incompetence, or a cynical ploy to save money while blaming the user for any eventual problem.
@@Dreddy72 since the alternator is the heart of the electrical system, by extension, all things electrical are down stream from the alternator, in one form or another.
My friend had all kinds of issues with his wrangler (2013 rubicon). Dealer said it was the alternator. Turns out that it was the computer. They found this out after the third alternator.all because of a 3$ rubber boot where the plug goes into the computer
when I worked for GM as I recall warranty repairs are caused by the car or the parts themselves, excluding parts that wear out like brakes ect. if the problem is caused by an outside source then it wont be covered. but still this can be sorta grey. it all comes down to the service manager if you have a good relationship there your golden if not good luck because he has alot of say that manufacturers wont question.
I would expect Jeep FCA could make alternators and other parts tougher for the typical owners uses/needs. (Even mud bogging) It is confusing when they promote Jeep as a off-road vehicle that can be abused thought. I guess they could sell them with no warranty like race prepped Challengers and the like.
Hint: "Off road" is not "wading". That's a specialist kind of Extreme 4WDing which needs adequate preparation to do sucessfully, It's Dunning-Kruger writ large. People assume that because they got a shiny 4WD that they don't need training/expertise
Had a problem with the local Subaru dealer. They insisted that our 2016 Forester (bought new in 2016) needed regular alignment checks along with oil changes. They indicated that our off road capable vehicle could have the alignment knocked out of spec by normal city driving. They want to sell their vehicles as rugged and capable....but will then find work to do that makes it seem very delicate. I've owned a lot of trucks and cars over the years and I've rarely had to get the alignment checked. It's normally associated with rubbing a curb (telltale marks on the wheel and tire sidewall usually give it away). This car never even goes on a rough dirt road let alone off road....a continuous need to check alignment to me is either a money grab or a bad design. Pretty sad a dealer/manufacturer would operate this way no mater which is the case.
@@EthosAtheos My Jeep XJ cherokee It's known as the landmaster out here in Puerto Rico I go mud running on trails I take it to the beach drive on sand seawater everything the works all the time and it never fails this is why old school vehicles will always be superior to modern vehicles.
There's a large element of this vehicle not being fit for purpose. Regardless of what Steve and the dealers have been saying I don't believe the mud caused that amount of damage unless it was so deep it left a tide mark in the engine bay and 30 inches of water would have it well into the engine bay
I see you gleam in the morning sun I watch your wipers in the pouring rain And the moment we wander off the path I never want to go back again With your top down for the summer breeze Your top up in the fallin leaves And its you i need to tow How deep is your mud How deep is your mud How far do i have to tow Cause we’re livin in a world of fools Breaking down, when they all should warrantee The Jeep that belongs to me
I agree that the alternator and batteries are on the driver, but the axle should be sealed up and mud shouldn't get in there too cause so much damage it needs to be replaced....the trail rated badge is suppose to mean something and if those Dana 44 axles couldn't handle mud there would be many more jeeps with this issue because going thru mud is a very common thing for jeeps....plus the auto start was a known issue for gladiators and it was a software problem
Falls under RTFM. I bought a set jack stands from Sears, years ago. On the box it was stated do not get under vehicle while supported with this product. Why else would I want jack stands?
This is normal operating procedure for using jacks. NEVER go under the vehicle when it is only supported by the jacks since they might be unstable, or fail. Believe me, you do not want several hundred Kgs of car landing on you - it will really spoil your day. The correct method it to use the jacks to raise the vehicle before lowering it back onto specially designed stands, or solid wooden blocks. Don't use stone, concrete or cinder blocks since they can crumble and those several hundred Kgs can, again, spoil your day. The real answer is to not arrogantly do jobs when you don't know how. Research before hand and don't try to become a Darwin Award candidate.
@@mpmansell Jack stands or Jacks, Mark is correct. Jack stands fail for various reasons (including good old fashioned "toppling") and must never be the primary support device when someone is under a car. Around 5000 americans are injured and 10-20 killed every year by jack stand failures Even somethign as simple as sliding a wheel under the car will save your life if things go wrong
had a friend with a brand new jeep, went muddin and hydrolocked the motor, cleaned it up really well, including some internal cleaning, FCA found mud in the engine still, voided warranty.
They are actually super solid if you service them as prescribed. I've done a LOT of dumb things that should have destroyed another off road capable vehicle and never had an issue
The 5% of the time when the dealer doesn't just fix the issue under warranty must involve 100% of warranty claims under the Hendrick's Auto Group. Every time I had an issue and used those clowns, they just returned the car saying, "nothing wrong", "can't fix it", etc. They always just ignored the problem.
Only half-way through so far, and so I am actually currently on Jeeps side. IMO there is a big difference between slowly and carefully navigating off road terrain, and blazing through muddle puddles at high speed. I think the latter can be seen as misuse. Now we will see where it goes from here, cause it isnt a perfect point in the first place and I am guessing there are some important details/hangups.
Sounds like a defective jeep to me. If a Jeep is advertised for going offroad and mud, surely if mud 'can' get in a place it shouldn't, its a defect as its clearly designed to not do that.
When Steve was reading from the "Trail Rated" description didn't he read that the vehicle has "...sealed electrical components."? Absent a listing of the >specific< electrical components that are sealed, an average person could, in fact, infer from that phrasing that they ALL are. Hence, a manufacturer installed alternator that could sustain ingress of water/mud is a factory defect.
At one point the small print stated "not for operation off road" for the Jeep warranties. I have driven down city streets and gotten mud/water/snow under the hood and over my roof at normal speeds.
I once bought and "extended bumper to bumper warranty" and paid $1200 extra for it. A year later after reading the fine print, I discovered the "extrended warranty" truely was bumper to bumper--except for everything between the bumpers--basically because the broken items I had to prove were manufacturers defects. So they go my money and I got screwed. Then I got a warrantee from my insurance company for repairs performed at their selected body shop. Again, I had to prove their aftermarket chinese parts were defective when they installed them. I'm done with warranties!
I going to assume that all the part that need replacing are actually fine, and the real problem is the TIPM, which is garbage to begin with. Add a little water and its almost a guaranteed failure.
A note from the pro's of Chrysler A Wide Range of Electrical Gremlins Can Be Traced to Chrysler's TIPM Problem If you've heard of a TIPM, chances are you own a vehicle from Fiat-Chrysler (FCA). Think of it like a command center for all the electrical functions of your car, and in FCA's case a very, very disfunctional one. Imagine waking up to find your car’s windows rolled down, the blower motor running and the radio blasting. You have a couple logical explanations here: The car is possessed and needs to be burned. The car has a defective totally integrated power module (TIPM). Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse.
I had a 1991 Ford Ranger xlt extended cab 4x4. Went through a mud puddles about a foot or so deep. The water splashed up and hit the alternator causing mud to get on the contacts which caused them to not work so no current, no charge. They told me they wouldn't cover it because I took it off road. I asked them that your advertisements show the truck being off road. They still wouldn't cover it. So I told them to put it back on my truck I would take care of it myself. All of a sudden it was covered under warranty lol.
If a Jeep owner walking into your office with this story, would you take that case based on the facts you know? Great channel. Thanks for sharing these story's.
Off road rated vehicles usually have skid plates/covers to prevent stuff from being thrown into the engine compartment, my Jeep wrangler had covers on the bottom tp prevent stuff from road from getting splashed/thrown into the engine compartment.
Jeep voided my warranty after my front axle broke, they fixed it the first time and a week later it was blown again and they took my entire warranty away for "aftermarket parts" but it was set up that way by the dealer that sold it , tires where oem size and they put a 1 inch lift
The fact he didn’t attempt to clean the mud off is the reason he got in this bog hole. It’s a reflection of his character and he probably doesn’t take good care of his stuff. Manufacturers are looking at any way to get out of spending money. Don’t make it easy for them. Thanks Steve. From Australia 🇦🇺
"Trail-rated" is a trademark and not certified by any authority. Also, nowhere does it say that doing anything that they include in their own "trail-rated" tests doesn't void the warranty.
I doubt many "trails" include waist deep water. It's something 4WDers are explicitly warned to avoid unless they're seasoned experts (anything deeper than about 6-12 inches can sweep a vehicle away if it's flowing water and there are too many variables in deeper water to approach them without scouting out the path first)
We had a Grand Cherokee Overland - beautiful, really great in snow, the drivers heated seat went out at the same time the mileage warranty expired - Jeep would not repair under warranty. This was our last Jeep, we sold it a year later. We loved it until this experience with the dealer and Jeep.
The 90s Chrysler / Jeeps aren't bad. They have some issues but nothing major or going to stop you. I would treat modern ones like a Mercedes now, and only drive it with a full warranty.
I can remember when Jeep was its own company and the vehicles were still good. - I had a Ford Escort some decades back that I drove too fast into a flooded stretch of road that was being crossed by an overflowing river about two or more feet deep. I know that my car did not touch the road at the deepest point, so it was temporarily a boat. The engine died and the car coasted back to solid ground, it turns out I was going fast enough for the water to crack the distributor cap in two. That car ran for another 12 years before I traded it in on my next car. Point being, I agree that the speed with which you hit a liquid can matter. - And if I had the urge to go mud bogging, I would not go and get a brand new jeep. I'd get a used one that would not hurt too bad the wallet to leave dead in the mud and walk home from.
As a mechanic, based on the information given, I suspect this vehicle was in deep, muddy water. The clues that I picked up on were, for starters, the rear differential limited slip locking the rear wheels when not required (the on ramps). This typically indicates the differential has water (muddy water) intermixed with the lubricant. This is easy to determine by draining the differential. A intermix will show as chocolate milkshake colored oil and there will be rust developing on the internals. If this is the case, it explains why the unit is locking up unexpectedly......the rust is binding the locking section of the unit.
The presence of water would indicate the unit was submerged below the level of the differential breather tube (30") and was in that condition for several minutes or longer.
The next thing that got my attention was electrical concerns developing (not the alternator) within about 90 days of the alternator replacement. This is a indicator of various electrical connectors that had been submerged for a period long enough for the water to overcome the water 'resistant' connectors, and are now corroding to the point of losing the electrical connection within.
Lastly, the fact that the owner was required to pay a deductable for the alternator replacement, which, if it had failed due to a material or workmanship concern, should not have a requirement for repair. If it was a failure due to M&W it would be covered under the Bumper to Bumper 3yr/36k warranty and no deductable would have been called for. This charge is an indicator that the dealer did a goodwill repair, not a regular warranty repair.
If I am correct about water damage, this vehicle has many more problems to come.
I contend the machine was abused, and not used within its design parameters.
That's my $.02
I'm hardly an expert, especially on all the electronics in newer vehicles, but I figured that if the axle needed to be replaced it had to have mechanical damage that couldn't result from electrical problems. Same for the radiator.
Rob, great response. Thanks for your professional opinion.
Bro it's a Jeep... What electrical connection water resistance was there to overcome?
I agree, this sounds like an operator problem not a QC issue, people that go deep fording/mudding/driving through sea water deserve 100% of all the electrical malfunctions
The Jeep Gladiator Renegades have an electronic locker, not mechanical limited slip. Since it has electrical problems it sounds like it's being electronically locked when it shouldn't be.
Electrical problems in a Jeep , who would have thought ?
Yea it's impossible that any chrysler has a garbage electrical system. I claim fraud!
No shit right!
Yeah really
Who has worse electrical issues, an antique Bri'ish car with Lucas Electrics wiring,
or one brand new Jeep?
@@lsswappedcessna all chrysler products.
I'm in the "why didn't they wash the mud off before they brought it in" camp LOL
Exactly, since up to 30" of water is OK I would have power washed every inch of that before bringing it in.
Yes. just wash it off & just tell them the Jeep has a problem
Yep I was thinking that also
Diddo!
That’s exactly what I was thinking. But how are you going to wash the alternator?
Car dealerships and manufacturers - "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy..."
I can think of two, congress and the current supreme court...
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@JoeHTX You're right! I think it is safe to say that we could consolidate this and just say Washington DC...
Car dealership: hello and welcome!
Drag queen: gurl you shady like a lamp factory.
@@RobertWilkinsonJKekMaloy Great name 👍
I called a dealer to schedule a warrantee repair on a new 1970 El Camino. They asked what was wrong with it. I responded, rear crank seal leaks and the rear axle pinion bearing is howling. After a long pause and voicing a lot of disbelief they responded with "well bring it in tomorrow morning and we will look at it". I dropped it off as scheduled and was very surprised when they called 5 hours later to say I was correct and that both items were fixed. They also washed it and filled the gas tank. Never had such outstanding warrantee service from anyone since then. Sold truck to a friend 112,000 miles later without any other major failures.
When are these people gonna learn to wash the vehicle before they take it in.
washing won't work ... she got mud all over and greatly affected the electronics.
@@rarelibra Because they want to have everyone say "Ohhh HOW COOL!".. Well Fuck ya...
I agree if I had to, I would of had it towed and had it professionally cleaned before I took it to the dealership.
@@annafraser8654 even a professional clean would not remove the trace evidence on elements where it does not belong.
@@rarelibra trace elements can come from just driving down the road. Especially in the rain.
There was a recall on gladiator axles due to a manufacture not adding axle lube into the axle. I got a notice in the mail for that. It said that the axle could lock up at speed causing an accident.
1. It's the driveshaft going to the rear axles, not the axles. The driveshaft was manufactured via the supplier without grease, and thus could fail, but not leading to locking/seizing of the rear axles. 2. In this individual's case, the electronic locking differential "locks", not "seizes."
@@sweetroscoeful You are probably correct. The notice was sent out late last year. Thanks for clarifying.
@@sweetroscoeful Are you talking about u-joints not having grease? I'm unaware of a driveshaft needing grease.
@@ozzieosborne7676 That is correct. The axles (more accurately, the differential assembly) are fine on the gladiators, but the driveshaft assembly which is unique to it, had a run of ones assembled w/o grease, (since it comes as an assembled unit) thus leading to a rash of failures and thus the recall.
www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2019/09/16/2020-jeep-gladiator-recall/2344833001/
@@sweetroscoeful wow, I wonder what genius thought it was a good idea to come up with the all new lubeless design! Must work great!
I had a 1990 Jeep with a 4 cyl engine and 5-spd transmission that I wheeled all the time. Mud, water, sand, trails... Everything. (This was northern Ohio)
It was also a daily driver. I only ever had 3 problems as a result of wheeling it:
1. A flat tire caused by an actual railroad spike, when I was wheeling along an old railroad bed. I actually had the tire booted at a truck stop, which is where they put a large internal patch on the tire. (The spike had gone through the tread, not the sidewall) I drove those tires another 10k+ miles before donating them to a friend's Jeep build.
2. Another flat tire, when I broke through the ice on a mud hole and a piece of ice sheared off the valve stem. (I switched to steel stems after that.)
3. Getting stuck. But if you ain't getting stuck, you ain't wheeling.
Forget warranty issues...
The idea that you can't wheel a freaking RUBICON without breaking it is absurd, and an indication that they're putting too much gratuitous electronic crap in them these days.
Oh, and I NEVER had an alternator issue. They were using the classic GM alternator at the time.
Actually, I should say that I had to replace the alternator a couple of times in the several years I owned it for a worn out bearing. It cost about $35 at the autoparts store. But that's not what was going on here. Bearings will squeal for a long time before failing completely, and there is no way you wouldn't know. It's VERY loud.
Had a friend that has a wrangle. The engine ended up seizing. The dealer claimed that because he went off-road, it voids the warranty. He called corporate. Corporate said the trucks are "trail rated" and the warranty is not void. The dealership kept fighting with him. Corporate sent a new engine to the dealership. And they refused to do it. He went to a different dealership that corporate recommended and had no issues there. They gave him a new wrangler to drive while it being fixed.
Ever drive down a wet road with water spraying off to the side? There is just as much water being sprayed under the car and into the engine compartment.
water =/= mud
@@sweetroscoeful dirt doesn't end up in the engine compartment of vehicles?
That's why they have splash shields
Little FYI, this Jeep was submerged in muddy water and broke down. It had to be towed out of the mud and into the shop in this condition so it was pretty obvious what happened on the vehicles arrival.
@@casucasueq4479 would it be fair to say the owner is desperately trying to avoid it being tagged as flood damaged?
Last time I went through a mud pit in my Wrangler (1993) the mud pit was about 2 feet deep. Enough mud got onto the radiator to cause it to not allow much airflow through to cool the engine so I had to stop every couple miles on the 10 mile drive to the closest self car wash after getting off the trail to let it cool down. After using the pressure washer on the radiator for a while, I drove off normally and didn't have to do any other repairs or maintenance. I guess these new Jeeps aren't build as well as they were 28 years ago...
Its like buying a tank and the warranty says: Void if used in Combat" hahah
… I saw it with an mrap that had a broken axel. In Iraq.
In 2009.
Their command wouldn’t let us tow them out of a hostile town because it was covered under warranty & towing it would void it.
We called them stupid, and for the record, left them to live or die based on their own stupidity.
If you buy a tank, get mud on the alternator, and expect to perform a warranty claim while in combat you're going to be further out of luck that the Jeep owner in this story. A little mechanical sympathy might help.
Watched it happen.
You'll keep calling it Chrysler just like I'll keep calling it the Sears Tower.
In 1983 my father bought a brand new GMC pickup. The dealer refused to repair any of its many covered defects. His excuse was my dad " fast talked" him into selling it too cheap. He tried other dealers, no help. It leaked copious amounts of oil from the engine transfer case and both differentials. The transmission didn't leak but the shift linkage fell off on the ground. Also the carburetor and distributor were defective. He contacted GM they refused to cover any of those things. To this day I won't purchase any new GM product. I've have also vetoed the purchase of GM products by places of employment. GMAC tried to purchased the mortgage on my brother's house. He made it clear he would immediately refinance his house if they went through with it. I think many of the difficulties GM has experienced over the years are related to their dishonesty. Probably the only reason they are still in business is because as illustrated here none of them are decent.
So, let me get this clear. They are selling a vehicle that is marketed for off road use but it dies with some mud. Surely, if some mud can splash onto the alternator, and if the failure of the alternator destroys/damages other electrical components, then I would say that the design was defective and that the vehicle is not fit for purpose. If the car was submerged in mud to the degree they claim, then there would be other very obvious signs. The real answer here is never to buy a Jeep since they are deceptive.
If your new Porsche overheats from extended track use while under warranty, should Porsche repair free of charge? There’s a line somewhere in between general marketing and real world use. If dust from the trail caused a failure I’d agree with you, just as if one attempt at redline broke a Porsche. But excessive amounts of mud? I can see this from both sides.
@@instarand yes, but do we have any actual evidence of excessive amounts of mud? And where is the line for 'excessive'? I grew up living on a farm in one of the muddiest parts of the UK. I learned to drive off-road on multiple vehicles. If you get into 'excessive' mud, there is usually a lot of evidence of it, such as it intruding inside chassis components and being caked under body panels. Additionally, pictures of the car covered in mud are also not proof since other passing off-roaders could have sprayed it over the body. The biggest problem here is that, for a person expecting to use an off-road car, off-road, the accusations and process are lacking serious credibility.
@@mpmansell I also grew up on a farm in the country in the UK. Mud was everywhere, and I don't think there was any vehicle that didn't have mud on it. If the mud was excessive then, if you tried to go through it at speed, it would have ripped out the bottom of the jeep. It would be like the chassis hitting a wall... Somehow I think the report in that case would have been along the lines of "chassis and body seem to have separated."
@@ljisbister3102 Then I guess that series Land Rovers and old Toyotas are much, much, tougher than newer series Jeeps :)
*EDIT*: Or, maybe, can't drive as fast :D
@@mpmansell Can't speak as to old Toyotas but Land Rovers from the 1950's were as tough as old boots.
"Read the fine print; it's fun." - Steve Lehto and every nerd lawyer ever. Love it. As for the Jeep, everyone knows it belongs at the mall. I'll keep my TJ, thanks.
Had a seat that was broken on a 1 month old car brought it to a dealership and they said it was wear and tear. I brought it to a second dealership and they fixed it under warranty and was like yeah we have had few of these issues.
Dodge/Jeep electronics going wonky is a engineering feature.
Ours had the black box under the hood go bad, which holds all fuses.
Fix: whack with a rubber mallet
Ah, the old “hit the television to get the signal right” approach
I took my Jeep in for a slightly bent rear axle. They denied warranty work "due to obvious signs of rock crawling". The "obvious sign" was a single scratch on a skid plate.
And how many Jeep ads show the vehicles rock crawling? Only about 3/4 or more.
I bought a brand new Wrangler back in 2000. I went on a trip to Michigan, from my home state of Ohio, to meet up with some fellow off road enthusiast. We ran a few trails that entailed crossing muddy/sandy streams with water up to the hood. Once the week end was over I drove back home to Ohio. I got about 50 miles from home when the Jeep just died on Interstate 75. A very nice State Trooper stopped and got me a tow truck that took my Jeep to the nearest dealer. Turns out I was driving on the battery most of the trip home since the alternator died due to mud and sand getting inside it. Jeep/Chrysler decided sealed alternators cost too much and they went with a cheaper unsealed model. The dealer tried to tell me it wasn't covered under warranty. I promptly picked up a magazine in the waiting area that had an ad advertising new Jeeps. It showed a Jeep in muddy water up to the hood and underneath the picture is said "we are just testing the radio". By publishing this ad Jeep was admitting that they expect Jeep owners to drive through muddy water up to the top of the hood. I asked the service manager "just how do you think a judge is going to rule after seeing this ad?" They replaced the alternator under warranty and cut their losses.
I've seen country roads here in Montana that will completely cover a vehicle in mud.(less than a foot deep)
Driving through a field will put sod on the roof. And that was under the tires .
I once had a detour due to a bridge washing away and drove a rental long wheelbase Sprinter van through mud. 300km later the van's side was still covered to the roof at the back (triangle white and the other triangle mud) and had no issues ever when talking to the ladies at the rental co., other than jokes about 4x4-ing in a Sprinter.
Came across your videos just this past month, the wife and I really enjoy them. Best regards from Ramara Ontario!
So Jeep is telling him that he was "crossing the Rubicon"?
@@mbryson2899 :-)
Hilarious!
no, he just wrangled more than he could chew
I bought a ford explorer in '95, and i most definitely abused it starting on week 1. But It's not a mud buggy, it's a consumer sport vehicle. The engine compartment isn't sealed against water and mud. This guy's truck did have improved waterproofing, but some things are going to be exposed since you're not paying a premium for the mudbuggy quality protection. The alternator in particular is a delicate part, it has a belt running to it, MUST have ventilation for cooling, and has delicate parts inside. It might be able to shake off some water, but mud's a problem. Sand would be no different. The alternator is placed very high on the belt route to help protect it from water, mud, and sand. If you're offroading hard enough to splash mud up onto your alternator's air intakes, you've gone too far for a consumer-grade (or even "pro-sumer" grade) product. It'd be like buying a high end lake boat and taking it out in the Atlantic and complaining it can't handle the 30 foot swells in a storm. Know your limits, and use common sense.
I bought a jeep new in 99, it died in 2016. Had almost 300k miles on it. I e driven it off-road from Maine to upper michigan. I now own a Hyundai. Still would like to find an older jeep though. But the prices on them are stupid.
Yeah the 4.0 was a beast.
Ah, you had a good one...
I'm not even a jeep guy and i like that year.
I was in the third camp before you even brought it up...lol. I must honestly say that I do believe that the first dealership tried a fast one on the client and knew that their assessment would be questioned by the manufacturer. I would also be inclined to think that they never put their assessment on the system else the second dealership would have picked it up. I think the first dealership was pissed because the client went for a second opinion which they knew would expose their assessment as being over the top and subsequently submitted cause for voiding warranty. As it turned out the second dealership felt that only one of the items quoted by the first dealership needed to be replaced and we should note that the additional items failed later.
Items like the brake light should be waterproof in which case mud would not have been able to get inside. Electronics generally should also be waterproof which would also exclude the ingress of mud. As far as the diff and related equipment is concerned...it is one of the lowest extremities of a car and could reasonably be expected to be protected from mud damage because even gentle off-roading will result in mud getting onto the entire drive train. This isn't unusual or classified as abuse. My honest view is that the owner of the vehicle did go a bit extreme but based on the marketing of the vehicle, I'd have expected it to be able to handle this use. Off-road tyres will also throw up a lot more mud than conventional road tyres, so mud getting in everywhere should reasonably have been expected by the manufacturer seeing as it is an off-road vehicle that leaves the showroom fitted with off-road tyres. I will give you an example of where a Jeep gets as much, if not more mud splashed all over every year as the snow starts melting without being abused and that is on the RUclips channel Red Poppy Ranch ruclips.net/video/VEyP2IkpK9c/видео.html
Had I been a lawyer in the US I would have taken this case for the owner because the manufacturer's marketing clearly creates a misleading impression over the quality of their product. With the exception of the alternator, every other item that failed should not have been affected by mud ingress. Mud is a lot more viscous than water and should not have been able to penetrate any of the items that failed other than the alternator.
The Jeep actually comes with a factory fitted splash guard under the engine compartment to protect it from excessive water spray on sensitive components and this type of spray can come from a puddle spraying up while travelling at speed on the freeway. Water spraying like that can have enough force to bypass seals and cause corrosion or compromise electrical circuits. The clearance between those sealing surfaces on the electrical components are however of sufficient tight tolerance as to not allow the much higher viscosity mud through which is why all the references in the warranty document pertains to water and doesn't mention mud.
I honestly believe that the first dealership was trying to pull a fast one and the manufacturer saw an opportunity to avoid an expensive warranty claim by blurring the lines of their warranty descriptions.
I work for a dealer (not an FCA affiliated dealer) and I can tell you it’s not the dealers call to void a warranty. We can deny a warranty claim for a specific repair if we have good reason to but only the manufacturer can actually put a status on a car that will potentially void the warranty. I can tell you that in my experience, it takes a lot of work and hard proof to get a status put on a vehicle. I also have friends that regularly wheel their Jeeps and have never had any warranty issues even when taking their Jeeps in for repair without cleaning them off.
I remember buying a new 97 Jeep in 1996. Took it to Hawaii with me for 4 years. The interior got rained on - impossible not to happen in Hawaii - water got inside the steering column and created an electrical short. This happened twice. Thankfully, Jeep repaired it both times by warranty. Years later, they finally installed rubber covers around the steering column.
Never buy a Jeep. But if you do, wash the damn mud off before you take it to a dealer.
I came here to say this. Moral of the story, wash your damn car before taking it to the dealer to get fixed.
Could be that lot of the electrical issues may have been caused by them cleaning the engine compartment and saturating the electronics with a pressurized washer.
You call still tell if the alternator is packed with mud.
@@stefanieb9307 Not if you spray the engine compartment out. Depending on where the alternator is, it's sometimes easy to clean out.
Unless you are ready to do a complete tear down, your idea sucks, & even if you do a tear down, that, alone would void your warranty for tampering.
Had a 1980 or 81 Datsun (Remember those?) first-generation 4-wd pickup. Got a letter when it was 3-4 months old: Being recalled for front wheel bearing seals. Single-lip seal would be replaced with double-lip seal. Until replaced, warranty would be voided if truck was operated in water, mud, sand, snow, ice, or any other similar conditions. So I bought a 4-wd vehicle that could only be operated on dry, paved roads! It wasn't until month seven that they got the parts to replace the seals.
A deductible from warranty work? Didn't think it worked that way? 🤷♂️
They don't have to give you a warranty at all, so I can't see a legal problem with a warranty that has a deductible. That said, deductibles tend to be found on extended warranties, not the normal manufacturer's warranty that covers a new vehicle. Just like your insurance coverage, a higher deductible means a lower purchase price.
I think what you mean by "deductible" is the fact that they can choose not to cover repairs. If the manufacturers were not able to decide what they will cover and in what cases they will cover it, there would be people deliberately destroying components to be replaced for free, and the manufacturer could not say a word about it.
Warranty repairs are free (in my experience) but the deductible is part of the extended warranty which is really more of a service agreement. At least that’s how it was with my Jeep.
The issues described by the owner sound related in that there seems some sort of communication problem between the computer and actuators\sensors. 2 points come to mind, 1) the vehicle was diving fine for 3 months after the alternator was replaced and 2) A full diagnostic was not performed on the subsequent return of the vehicle to the dealership. I bet if the dealership took a close look they might find a loose connector.
I checked out a Gladiator at a Jeep store over the summer. Looking underneath the truck, it had an undertray and various skidplates. It likely took quite a bit of effort to get so much mud into the engine bay as to damage multiple components. Just ran a quick picture search for Gladiator motors; the alternator is easy accessible from the top. This brings us back to the question as to how the mud got there in the first place.
If you drive through any mud, you would be surprised where it goes. Ive had mud on the roof just from a muddy driveway, on a jeep that the roof is around 70 in high. Bigger tires make this issue worse.
I never forget getting my first brand new 4 x 4 and taking it off road. Just listening to the little trees and stuff scrape along the brand new sides, AHHH GOOD TIMES
“How deep is your mud” perfect new Teeshirt :-)
In 2000 I bought a new Wrangler with a 3 yr/36k warranty. At 24k the clutch failed and I expected a warranty replacement. The vehicle had never been taken off road- it was a grocery getter. Dealer stated that manual transmissions had only a 12.5k warranty (surprise, Mr. Chump!); I opted to have an independent shop make the repairs. My strongly worded letter to the Jeep CEO resulted (eventually) in a cash reimbursement for the cost of a clutch kit.
If you hit a mud puddle hard enough to damage an alternator, you were likely not fording that puddle 'with ease'. It sounds like he was driving it like he stole it and hadn't prepared it for the beating.
or there is a serious design flaw that makes the vehicle unfit for the intimated purpose.
No, alternator shorted out or overheated. Clearly, zero engineering was done, b/c chrysler.
@@TheGuruStud Chrysler:
Conformal coating? What is that?
There was also damage to the radiator, so I would agree that excessive speed was the likely problem.
Or the alternator is a fiat turd
Example, while trail riding in my 2010 Jeep Wrangler JK the trail became covered by water, shallow at first but got progressively deeper the further in we got. Moving slowly and cautiously we proceeded, with dry terrain in site the depth rapidly increased to hood level, I had a bow wave. No stopping and no turning back at this point. Thankfully the depth did not go deeper and we made it through to the dry terrain, I stopped, left the engine running and got out to access the situation. water was pouring out of the radiator, frame rails and any void water possibly could have entered. Once satisfied no serious damage had occurred, no water ingested into the engine we continued with no ill affect. I would have to estimate 30 inches exceeded as my tires are 33's and the hood line is 8" above that point. Yes had I been traveling at a higher rate of speed I seriously doubt the outcome would have been the same. I have enjoyed countless hours crawling around in my Jeep and this occasion is probably the most extreme example I have encountered to date, I use my jeep, I do not abuse my Jeep. Yeah it's trail rated.
Water(up to a certain depth) drains out almost as fast as it comes in. Mud will leave "grit" behind. Also clogs radiator and AC condensor.
That's why you wash it out. I've mudded truck's and atv's for years without issues. Of course they were not Chrysler products though, thats why I didn't have problems.
I work for a municipal fleet and we will never buy another Mopar product again, because they will NEVER stand behind their warranty. Time after time, there was always an excuse as to why they could not cover a repair. Last straw was a spun bearing race in the rear axle housing. Their fix was to use some high temp silicone as a bearing retainer. They said it only needed to make it past warranty and the housing would then be our problem.
Hyundai has EXPRESSLY stated that you can drive your Veloster N on track. McLaren doesn't even do that.
However racing it will indeed void the warranty if the claim results from racing.
@@sweetroscoeful If driving their car on track voids the warranty, then mentioning that their customers "can" take their cars to the track is disingenuous, at best. After all, they are not offering anything more than McClaren is. It is merely a marketing ploy that boils down to, "You can take our cars to the track, but you will be stuck with any related costs and repairs, just like the McClaren owner".
I have nothing against Hyundai, they make better cars than Chrysler, yet this marketing ploy is rather transparent. Worse, they are actually inviting people to be left on the hook by taking it to the track, while suggesting they will be covered, if they do not read the fine-print.
If they will honour their warranty for a customer who races their car at a track, as the marketing more than hints at...then disregard the above, it only applies if racing voids their warranty.
@@rorycallaghan5719 Depends on your definition of racing. Track days and HPDE are allowed. Competitive racing is not.
If you are racing, be prepared to break stuff. Don't expect the manufacturer to fix it.
I’ve had both a Jeep commander and a Ford Bronco from the eighties. With the bronco the owners manual says driving through deep mud and water is not recommended. Should it occur you should bring the vehicle in as soon as possible to change the axle fluids and inspect the wheel bearings. Failure to do so will void the warranty. At least Ford would explain why it was necessary and give you a remedy to maintain the warranty. The one difference was everything wasn’t computer driven. With the Jeep everything had electrical connections that you’d think would be designed to block water intrusion but obviously isn’t. During the time I drove the Jeep I had to replace two alternators and a couple batteries with an aftermarket warranty. After this point went awhile between using a CD player. When I used it the rear wiper would malfunction and run continuously even with the ignition off. When I disconnected the fuse to it the engine would die and it wouldn’t restart until I put the fuse back in. Because it was a full time four wheel drive I never had the confidence to take it off-road. Jeep electrical systems are so screwed up I don’t think they need to be abused to screw up. For the bronco when it didn’t have electrical engagement on the drive train it was flawless. My point is that electrical sensors are best left off 4x4’s. When the army jeeps were first developed they showed training films of them traveling through mud and water and they always worked. Not today’s Jeep though. You better not count on everything working the day after you drive off the lot.
Jeep’s should reasonably be able to go off-road, but they also aren’t an amphibious vehicle.
As somebody who works on ATVs I agree. You would be amazed how many people come in after they submerged there ATV and complain about something electronic. They always try to pull a fast one as there is very little integrity left these days. I Can usually tell if its been submerged. There are tell tale signs. Its an ATV not a boat. I then walk over to the PWC section and say maybe you should buy one of these. LOL..... Im an ass.
Anything is amphibious if you can get it back out of the water.
I take it that means you saw the picture of it?
ie: they can paddle. They are not designed to wade
Thanks for letting me know about Jeeps. I will not be buying a Jeep. Too bad for me because I like them. But, I refuse to buy products from companies that do not stand behind their products.
Steve you have become a great source for me to find out about bad companies. Thank you for this great service. Corporations of the world should pay attention to you and change their ways based on what you say.
It sounds to me like Jeep is contradicting its assertion of having “sealed electronics.”
Bought a 2015 Rubicon for winter use only (370Z for summer) and after 1 year needed an alignment. The dealer said that they could not get it back to spec without camber bolts. They wanted $600 to do they fix... I lost my mind on them. Told them to fix it under warranty because it has never been off the asphalt and only had 600 miles. Had to fight to get it done. Bought 2 WRX Ru's less than a year later... super happy that we did.
If I could pass one law, it would be to make "fine print" illegal. Either it's explained simply and explicitly, or it doesn't count.
Back in the late 90's I did loads of quite extreme off roading/trail driving, through water (water well over the bonet), mud just as deep, I had to regularly winch my Suzuki SJ410 out of all sorts of mud and water and ditches, and not ONCE did it ever have problems with mud or water on any of the electronics.
If ANY car company claim to have an off road/ trail capable car, I would expect it to at least be capable of shrugging off a bit of mud, and if it can't then I would consider that false advertising.
I’ve had mud on the roof of my Jeep. Had so much mud under it I had mud coming out for months every after several undercarriage washes. Still running fine. You have to the off road skid package tho.
I've had mud on the roof of a Nissan pintara and Toyota Prius. If a jeep can't handle mud then it shouldn't be sold as a four wheel drive.....
As someone who owns an older modified Jeep and has taken it mud bogging, I can understand the manufacturer at least being hesitant on covering it. But on the other hand they do advertise them splashing though some significant mud.
One of my friends thoughts on mudding (and its true) 2 hours of fun followed by 4 hours washing and 5 years later it still dropping dirt in your face from what got missed.
Just in your description of the issues the Jeep was having, I said to myself “they sank that bitch”... then I got to the part where the dealer said “vehicle was submerged “... yep
The vehicle is defective if a splash of mud caused by the vehicle itself can cause damage to the vehicle. That you CAN get mud in the alternator is itself an indication that it was defective from the start
Remember that Superbowl commercial of the Jeep fording a stream.
If you pay attention to the advertising you should notice that they tend to use nice pretty places. That means the snow is fresh and clean, and the streams are usually fairly clear, with mountains in the background. Can you find an official advertising photo that shows a jeep knee deep in real mud?
If you drive on a slippery surface the driven wheels will spin, throwing up material you are driving through, i.e. mud, gravel, water etc., into the interior of the engine bay. These product may be less than an inch deep but the mess it makes can be extensive. Also, all vehicles have inner wheel arches to prevent splashed up material from getting into nooks and crevices.
I am wondering how she got mud on the alternator, with the splash shielding Jeep builds into their vehicles, which is even more extreme in Rubicon models with added skid plate protection. I have been mud bogging in my Jeep and mud could not get mud in the engine compartment much less any where near the alternator. What did she have to do to get mud on the alternator? Just a bit of Background, I have owned and driven Jeeps since the late 1960's. I was a licensed master mechanic at an AMC/JEEP/CHEVROLET/Mercedes/Volkswagen/Rolls Royce Dealership for well over a decade. Most of the work I did on Jeeps, including my own, was owner caused. Such warranty work as was done was usually minor, except in a few situations where Jeep got defective parts from manufacturers, for example in the 76 & 77 model years with Prestolite ignition systems prone to failure due to a tiny wire being stuck into a heavy plug, causing the wires to break combined with a vacuum advance system prone to rapid failure of the diaphragms. I made a lot of money retrofitting Jeeps with a standard point system distributer, or installing a more reliable electronic ignition system, such as the Motorcraft system used in 78 and later Jeeps of that era.
I have welded several frame rails on CJ 5's & 7's that had completely cracked vertically beneath the firewall to the rear of the engine and suspension. I suspect twisting from off road flex but what's perplexing is they were all on the passenger side rail.
Jeep told us our Cherokee had been SUBMERGED in water for at least A MONTH and refused to do any further work on it. EVER. FOR ANY REASON.
2 years later we were told by another dealer the rubber gasket that was supposed to be around the main wiring bundle through the firewall WAS MISSING AND WAS NEVER INSTALLED. It had chafed on the sheet metal.
Sounds like a lack of splash shields. Did Fiat cut some costs?
Much like harley, jeep is selling a fantasy or "lifestyle" rather than a quality product.
Precisely. If you can see the road/ground through the engine compartment, then DON'T go Mudding and or Waterboarding. I mean, it's common sense.
@@earlmarshall6543 I'm 69 years old. What is called "common sense" now is not very good compared to the "common sense" of 50 years ago. Most people now seem to be oblivious to reality. Good Luck, Rick
@@richardross7219 So very true! And good luck to you and yours for this coming year!
Where didn't they cut costs......
OMG Steve, that sound you make at 14:48 is so great! 😬
My CJ7 doesn't have these problems, but then again it's a real Jeep.
It does, however, sound nothing out of the ordinary for newer Jeeps.
Love the shirt - I want one.
This story reminds me of the issue with car warranties being canceled due to racing. Autocross meets that definition but is intended to be within "typical" driving for the stock classes. The rumor was that some companies checked for Autocross results to end warranty coverage and some clubs started using pseudonyms for the drivers.
I would have been in the 3rd camp.
I'd have washed the thing before taking it in,but I have seen hardcore offroad enthusiasts leave the mud on their vehicle for days--as a badge of honor.
I see kids riding around with their jeeps covered in mud and I mean covered and they have a snorkel on them and they think that they're bullet proof Having had to work on a four wheel drive Ford pickup that had been used And abused In the mud There was a 1/2 inch of dried mud All packed up in the frame rails and there was no way without crawling under their with a pressure washer that they could ever get that clean.
So I had to go and find the original post from this guy,
I’ve had my stock 99 Durango 2wd covered in more mud going down the dirt road I used to live on after a good storm.with no negative repercussions to the electrical system. Or even the time I made a wrong turn and ended up window deep in the river (my first week living in a new area)
The owner (He/she) was splashing through some muddy water. Based on how there aren’t any chunks of mud. I spend too much time at mud bogs and trail riding.
My poor little daily driver car (not the Durango) gets covered in muddy water dang near worse than that going down the roads here in florida during a good storm. It’s only got 300k miles and runs like a top.
Definitely a case of a guy driving like it is a real 4x4 when it’s clearly not.
Many jeeps I've owned have had factory and aftermarket devices to stop mud and even large rocks from going where they don't belong. If the vehicle was in fact trail rated would they not have used the widely available and produced splash guards that prevents that type of damage. I know for a fact the 91 jeep can ford over 48 inches of water stock and they only thing damaged is the speakers and perhaps the upholstery. Its been driven up mountains with tons of mud and over 6ft of hard packed snow. Its been rolled end for end, over 100,000 miles of ROUGH trails. Rolled end for end by my sister. It will start at -50 below. Thing is bulletproof
I had a dealership in MD threaten to void it if I didn't shut up and pay for the repair. This was after they had already approved a warranty repair, but the part wasn't in. The dealership's 4x4 shop manager told me about this spot to check out. I went that weekend, and the next week when the part was in, they denied to cover it under warranty because there was mud on that little strip where the windows go down.
oh yeah, the issue was from some sort of coolant reaction from the new HOAT vs OAT coolant that was new that year, or casting sand. But they tried saying it was from MUD getting into the coolant system.
It’s a shame Jeep suck so much n the modern era. Great legacy destroyed.
Jump on the Toyota bandwagon we’re here to help
Steve, I was under the impression that warranties couldn't be "voided" - that the manufacturer had to show that a specific issue wouldn't be covered due to noncompliance by the driver. But while tampering with the emission system might allow them to deny warranty coverage on your engine, they couldn't deny coverage on something unrelated like your door falling off.
That's pretty much how it works. But in this case, I bet they'd claim almost everything could be blamed on abuse.
@@stevelehto Makes sense! Thanks!
One common element all these issues have is the electronics. If the alternator failure resulted in an undervolt or overvolt condition, the computer/electronics could have had a very bad time.
Should this happen, then it is a design problem. Sensitive components should have protection circuits to minimise this class of problems. Not including them is either incompetence, or a cynical ploy to save money while blaming the user for any eventual problem.
@@mpmansell Totally agree, especially since they (Jeep) tout the resilience of the hardware.
@@Dreddy72 since the alternator is the heart of the electrical system, by extension, all things electrical are down stream from the alternator, in one form or another.
Jeep’s famous Main bus b undervolts the worst,ask Apollo 13 crew.
My friend had all kinds of issues with his wrangler (2013 rubicon). Dealer said it was the alternator. Turns out that it was the computer.
They found this out after the third alternator.all because of a 3$ rubber boot where the plug goes into the computer
when I worked for GM as I recall warranty repairs are caused by the car or the parts themselves, excluding parts that wear out like brakes ect. if the problem is caused by an outside source then it wont be covered. but still this can be sorta grey. it all comes down to the service manager if you have a good relationship there your golden if not good luck because he has alot of say that manufacturers wont question.
I would expect Jeep FCA could make alternators and other parts tougher for the typical owners uses/needs. (Even mud bogging) It is confusing when they promote Jeep as a off-road vehicle that can be abused thought. I guess they could sell them with no warranty like race prepped Challengers and the like.
At one point they advertised a high speed engine that would give a 👮 🚗 a run for the money. 🤔🤔🤔
Hint: "Off road" is not "wading". That's a specialist kind of Extreme 4WDing which needs adequate preparation to do sucessfully,
It's Dunning-Kruger writ large. People assume that because they got a shiny 4WD that they don't need training/expertise
@@miscbits6399 your so right. But the advertisements make you think you can do it! ( we know different, but most folks can’t reason for themselves)
Had a problem with the local Subaru dealer. They insisted that our 2016 Forester (bought new in 2016) needed regular alignment checks along with oil changes. They indicated that our off road capable vehicle could have the alignment knocked out of spec by normal city driving. They want to sell their vehicles as rugged and capable....but will then find work to do that makes it seem very delicate. I've owned a lot of trucks and cars over the years and I've rarely had to get the alignment checked. It's normally associated with rubbing a curb (telltale marks on the wheel and tire sidewall usually give it away). This car never even goes on a rough dirt road let alone off road....a continuous need to check alignment to me is either a money grab or a bad design. Pretty sad a dealer/manufacturer would operate this way no mater which is the case.
99% of Jeep's will never see any form of mud in their operational lifespan anyway.
If that's true why do do many jeep advertisements drive through mud ( not a car person so might be obvious lol )
Mine has just driving Upstate NY. Red mud too! Ick. But I’ve never taken it mud bogging.
@@alexisthetransgenderduelis4211 they drive thru mud in kia sportage ads
Unless there is a muddy pot hole in the mall parking lot.
@@EthosAtheos My Jeep XJ cherokee It's known as the landmaster out here in Puerto Rico I go mud running on trails I take it to the beach drive on sand seawater everything the works all the time and it never fails this is why old school vehicles will always be superior to modern vehicles.
There's a large element of this vehicle not being fit for purpose. Regardless of what Steve and the dealers have been saying I don't believe the mud caused that amount of damage unless it was so deep it left a tide mark in the engine bay and 30 inches of water would have it well into the engine bay
'Cause we're living in a world of fools
Breaking down, when they should warranty
The Jeep that belongs to me
How deep is your mud
Actually, that is kind of catchy.
@@stevelehto like herpes, cause I can’t get rid of it now.
How deep,is your mud?
How deep is your mud?
How far do i need to tow?
Two hours later and im still singing it. Thank you.
I see you gleam in the morning sun
I watch your wipers in the pouring rain
And the moment we wander off the path
I never want to go back again
With your top down for the summer breeze
Your top up in the fallin leaves
And its you i need to tow
How deep is your mud
How deep is your mud
How far do i have to tow
Cause we’re livin in a world of fools
Breaking down, when they all should warrantee
The Jeep that belongs to me
I agree that the alternator and batteries are on the driver, but the axle should be sealed up and mud shouldn't get in there too cause so much damage it needs to be replaced....the trail rated badge is suppose to mean something and if those Dana 44 axles couldn't handle mud there would be many more jeeps with this issue because going thru mud is a very common thing for jeeps....plus the auto start was a known issue for gladiators and it was a software problem
Falls under RTFM. I bought a set jack stands from Sears, years ago. On the box it was stated do not get under vehicle while supported with this product. Why else would I want jack stands?
This is normal operating procedure for using jacks. NEVER go under the vehicle when it is only supported by the jacks since they might be unstable, or fail. Believe me, you do not want several hundred Kgs of car landing on you - it will really spoil your day.
The correct method it to use the jacks to raise the vehicle before lowering it back onto specially designed stands, or solid wooden blocks. Don't use stone, concrete or cinder blocks since they can crumble and those several hundred Kgs can, again, spoil your day.
The real answer is to not arrogantly do jobs when you don't know how. Research before hand and don't try to become a Darwin Award candidate.
@@mpmansell But Dan said jack stands, not jacks.
@@mpmansellThe irony that you arrogantly didn’t read the comment you’re trying to correct 😂
@@mpmansell Jack stands or Jacks, Mark is correct. Jack stands fail for various reasons (including good old fashioned "toppling") and must never be the primary support device when someone is under a car.
Around 5000 americans are injured and 10-20 killed every year by jack stand failures
Even somethign as simple as sliding a wheel under the car will save your life if things go wrong
Thanks Steve for being you
In 1985 we had jeeps inthe Air Force. We were prohibited from going off road or even putting 4 wheel drive on.
11:40 - “you can take it through a little babbling book, but don’t run over the trout.”. 😂
Why would mud on the alternator effect the rear axle? Obviously, the jeeps are not as tough as they want you to believe...
Electronic locking rear axle ... Just push a button on the dash and lock in.
More evidence that their electronics are not sealed effectively.
had a friend with a brand new jeep, went muddin and hydrolocked the motor, cleaned it up really well, including some internal cleaning, FCA found mud in the engine still, voided warranty.
I was thinking about buying a Gladiator. Nope.
They are actually super solid if you service them as prescribed. I've done a LOT of dumb things that should have destroyed another off road capable vehicle and never had an issue
TRD pro
Go buy a toyota, and stay away from the jeep trails. HAHA
Be sure to add electronic silicone to all your Jeeps electronic connectors to protect from water and mud .
The 5% of the time when the dealer doesn't just fix the issue under warranty must involve 100% of warranty claims under the Hendrick's Auto Group. Every time I had an issue and used those clowns, they just returned the car saying, "nothing wrong", "can't fix it", etc. They always just ignored the problem.
Only half-way through so far, and so I am actually currently on Jeeps side. IMO there is a big difference between slowly and carefully navigating off road terrain, and blazing through muddle puddles at high speed. I think the latter can be seen as misuse. Now we will see where it goes from here, cause it isnt a perfect point in the first place and I am guessing there are some important details/hangups.
Sounds like a defective jeep to me. If a Jeep is advertised for going offroad and mud, surely if mud 'can' get in a place it shouldn't, its a defect as its clearly designed to not do that.
When Steve was reading from the "Trail Rated" description didn't he read that the vehicle has "...sealed electrical components."? Absent a listing of the >specific< electrical components that are sealed, an average person could, in fact, infer from that phrasing that they ALL are. Hence, a manufacturer installed alternator that could sustain ingress of water/mud is a factory defect.
At one point the small print stated "not for operation off road" for the Jeep warranties. I have driven down city streets and gotten mud/water/snow under the hood and over my roof at normal speeds.
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I once bought and "extended bumper to bumper warranty" and paid $1200 extra for it. A year later after reading the fine print, I discovered the "extrended warranty" truely was bumper to bumper--except for everything between the bumpers--basically because the broken items I had to prove were manufacturers defects. So they go my money and I got screwed.
Then I got a warrantee from my insurance company for repairs performed at their selected body shop. Again, I had to prove their aftermarket chinese parts were defective when they installed them. I'm done with warranties!
I going to assume that all the part that need replacing are actually fine, and the real problem is the TIPM, which is garbage to begin with. Add a little water and its almost a guaranteed failure.
It is absolute junk. No coating or waterproofing attempted.
A note from the pro's of Chrysler
A Wide Range of Electrical Gremlins Can Be Traced to Chrysler's TIPM Problem
If you've heard of a TIPM, chances are you own a vehicle from Fiat-Chrysler (FCA). Think of it like a command center for all the electrical functions of your car, and in FCA's case a very, very disfunctional one.
Imagine waking up to find your car’s windows rolled down, the blower motor running and the radio blasting. You have a couple logical explanations here:
The car is possessed and needs to be burned.
The car has a defective totally integrated power module (TIPM).
Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse.
I had a 1991 Ford Ranger xlt extended cab 4x4. Went through a mud puddles about a foot or so deep. The water splashed up and hit the alternator causing mud to get on the contacts which caused them to not work so no current, no charge. They told me they wouldn't cover it because I took it off road. I asked them that your advertisements show the truck being off road. They still wouldn't cover it. So I told them to put it back on my truck I would take care of it myself. All of a sudden it was covered under warranty lol.
Water will go there as well on other Jeeze glad-he-ate-hers.
If a Jeep owner walking into your office with this story, would you take that case based on the facts you know?
Great channel. Thanks for sharing these story's.
Forget Jeep. Go out and buy and 1965 VW bug, lift it, put baja tires and wheels on it and it will go where no mortal vehicle is allowed to traverse.
Off road rated vehicles usually have skid plates/covers to prevent stuff from being thrown into the engine compartment, my Jeep wrangler had covers on the bottom tp prevent stuff from road from getting splashed/thrown into the engine compartment.
Jeep voided my warranty after my front axle broke, they fixed it the first time and a week later it was blown again and they took my entire warranty away for "aftermarket parts" but it was set up that way by the dealer that sold it , tires where oem size and they put a 1 inch lift
Sounds like a winnable case there.
The fact he didn’t attempt to clean the mud off is the reason he got in this bog hole. It’s a reflection of his character and he probably doesn’t take good care of his stuff. Manufacturers are looking at any way to get out of spending money. Don’t make it easy for them. Thanks Steve. From Australia 🇦🇺
"Trail-rated" is a trademark and not certified by any authority. Also, nowhere does it say that doing anything that they include in their own "trail-rated" tests doesn't void the warranty.
I doubt many "trails" include waist deep water. It's something 4WDers are explicitly warned to avoid unless they're seasoned experts (anything deeper than about 6-12 inches can sweep a vehicle away if it's flowing water and there are too many variables in deeper water to approach them without scouting out the path first)
We had a Grand Cherokee Overland - beautiful, really great in snow, the drivers heated seat went out at the same time the mileage warranty expired - Jeep would not repair under warranty. This was our last Jeep, we sold it a year later. We loved it until this experience with the dealer and Jeep.
I have been in the Auto repair industry for 45 yrs , I never have and never will by a Chrysler / Jeep product
The 90s Chrysler / Jeeps aren't bad. They have some issues but nothing major or going to stop you. I would treat modern ones like a Mercedes now, and only drive it with a full warranty.
I can remember when Jeep was its own company and the vehicles were still good.
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I had a Ford Escort some decades back that I drove too fast into a flooded stretch of road that was being crossed by an overflowing river about two or more feet deep. I know that my car did not touch the road at the deepest point, so it was temporarily a boat. The engine died and the car coasted back to solid ground, it turns out I was going fast enough for the water to crack the distributor cap in two. That car ran for another 12 years before I traded it in on my next car.
Point being, I agree that the speed with which you hit a liquid can matter.
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And if I had the urge to go mud bogging, I would not go and get a brand new jeep. I'd get a used one that would not hurt too bad the wallet to leave dead in the mud and walk home from.