John Deere is notorious for voiding warranties on their equipment to the point the farmers association in Nebraska went to the Nebraska government to get the to step in. Deere won't give the owners of the equipment the software to diagnose the problems and force people to trailer the equipment to the shop sometimes costing up to 5 grand in transport. Some farmers have had to hack the computer system on the equipment which of course voids the warranty.
the time has come for the farmers to rip out all the computer crap that runs the machine and go back to a simple internal combustion engine with no electronic crap to hold them back. something they can roll into the barn and repair it by the next day when the harvest wont wait 4 days for tech to come fix it or trailer it to town this nonsense has to stop
@@kirkyorg7654 There has been an increase in the market for pre 00's equipment for just this reason. Farming is much less sustainable if the farmers can't work on their own equipment.
@@kirkyorg7654 "the time has come for the farmers to rip out all the computer crap that runs the machine" Yeah, that ain't happening. The "computer crap" has become an integral part of the operation of machinery. If you "rip out the computer crap" your machine is about as useful as if you'd ripped out the crankshaft.
@@tomwilliam5118 Or not inhibiting others that might provide service work, parts, tools, or literature/schematics. So someone might make schematics or software available and be sued for doing so. The law suit alone shut down the business.
@@pollodormido2 This is why Apple products are banned in my home. Their practices are shady and many times illegal. They keep doing it because they keep getting away with it and fanboys keep feeding them money.
For those wanting to learn more go to Louis Rossmann channel. He has a electronic repair shop in New York and has been doing videos on this for years. One of the things he has highlighted is manufactures inventing special fasteners and tools for those fasteners and then patenting them so they can go after anyone that tries to sell the tools so others can access the piece of equipment.
@@ericvenneker Yeah, their audiences and demographics don't overlap too much, and while Louis' young idealistic base is important, Steve's audience skews towards older experienced people who are more likely to vote. Louis has said that he is willing to talk to anyone at this point. The barrier is more or less getting them connected.
Great coverage of this. About a week ago Louis Rossman - another RUclipsr - started a GoFundMe to hire the same firm that got an automotive right-to-repair law passed through a ballot initiative in Mass. This one would be for an electronic right-to-repair ballot initiative.
Exactly Louis has been one of the main guys testifying before state legislatures on right to repair. He has hundreds of examples of Apple and others trying to control the repair business and charging so much for the repair you might as well buy new.
Good on him! I live in MA and luckily the most recent right-to-repair initiative here was passed by the voters (barely), but the TV ads full of lies coming from opponents of the measure were just amazing.
That is why I don't buy Apple. They are the worst right to repair offender, wanting to charge people $300-$400 for something that people like Louis Rossman will fix for $50.
Steve, one of the biggest problems in our society (from my perspective) is government failing to enforce exiting laws. What are our options to compel the government to do it's job and enforce the laws? Passing more laws clearly isn't the answer.
One solution that has been tried, for example with the ADA, is where private citizens are incentivized to litigate against people who violate the appropriate law. Basically, partial privitization of the enforcement of these types of laws.
How about the govt shipping in illegal aliens and moving them to sanctuary cities. It illegal for a person to do it, but its ok for government to do it. Typical govt bull shit. Laws for thee and not for me. Goverment doesn't punish government. (Source is Inforwars). This is going on right now 4/14/21
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is great for products that are supposed to still be under warranty but Right to Repair as a whole is intended to stop the predatory actions by manufacturers who go out of their way to inhibit customers from repairing products they purchased both under warranty and after that warranty has expired. If I own a smart phone that had a 1 year warranty and I want to replace the camera sensor because it failed after 18 months, some manufacturers will cause the device to become completely inoperable even if you replace the camera sensor with another working sensor from that manufacturer. In this example, the phone is not under warranty anymore but is still an otherwise perfectly usable device, save for a broken camera. Right to Repair seeks to ensure manufacturers cannot continue to control the fate of devices after sale by ensuring the tools, schematics, manuals, etc. are made available to independent repair facilities. Thank you for the video Mr. Lehto.
Given how many devices these days are entirely or contain computers, I bet you culd get a company that bricked your device that way for violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
By some manufacturers do you mean Apple? 🍎 does that by hardcoding a serial number with tiny resistors into their parts. Then another chip reads those codes and enables or refuses to enable certain parts bases on that and some other things.
What about the heinous practice of Apple and Samsung, wherein they sent "upgrades" to legacy phones of their which DISABLED them? The idea being that they made these phones "too good", i.e., they were out-lasting the envisioned two-year service life, and users were hanging on to their "legacy" phones, satisfied with them. Also, although due to competitive pressure, the phone makers have been making their devices faster and with more memory, they've also pressured the developers to increase the memory requirements for their apps, rendering the old phones useless, as many common third-party apps won't run when "upgraded" on legacy systems. It also doesn't help that many OS and "approved" apps have a lot of BLOATWARE, more intended as "spyware" or "adware", than to actually perform a useful function.
I tried to order a replacement fan blade from Vornado because their "shop" fan model dropped and broke the blade. It wasn't even on at the time. They voided the warranty because I fixed it myself using a Honeywell fan blade. Quote from them: "However by modifying your unit with a different blade, you voided all warranty." But they also explained that it warranty was only for the motor and electrical. They were happy to sell me their fan blade for $20. (This is an 8" fan.) I bought the entire Honeywell fan for $15. And this is why we buy from China.... at least we know what we're getting. This whole "Buy American!" hogwash is stupid if the American companies ask for premium prices and then walk away from the support aspect of it.
Vornado fans have been made in China for quite awhile now. I have a couple of the ancient American-made ones. Warranty expired decades ago, but they still work!
This is a huge part of the issue as well. They tell them to not sell the required parts for repair to anyone else but them, or else they lose that lucrative contract with said company.
I like Zippo's warranty on their lighters. If it breaks for any reason they will fix it (if possible or replace it (if it can't be fixed) free of charge. People have intentionally destroyed lighters in bizarre ways to test the replacement warranty. Zippo has been doing this for decades.
Another interesting warranty I've heard of is Rainbow sandals. If your shoe wears out or breaks before the rainbow logo on the sole* is worn off, they will replace it free of charge. Of course they may not have that warranty anymore, I'm not exactly sure but I know that was a thing they had for a while. Edit: punctuation and grammar
i had the same experience with a Leatherman pocket tool. the pliers cracked at the joint. went to a dealer and was on my way out the door with a replacement in minutes. even asked me if i needed a new case free, which i didn't.
I had a customer who had a pool heater, they said that it would void the warranty if they had it fixed. I installed a new fan motor as the factory part was 7 weeks out. When the phoned that they where coming to fix it. I want back ahead of them and put the old motor in, so they could fix it.
That works, so long as the factory repairman doesn't notice scratches or marks that it's been worked on (or doesn't care). You're still out the cost of the first motor, but I guess you'll still have a spare for after the warranty ends.
@@sunbeam8866 is on the beach. There are scraches galore. The condo would have been out pool heat when it was wanted the most real spring. Fighting them over the federal regulations would have been more costly.
The problem with appliance repair when it comes to refrigerator or washing machines ect is there is never parts available to fix it. They tell you it's months before they're available or worse they don't know when they'll be able to get the parts. It forces consumers to waste money replacing whole units.
Buddy of mine until recently was an independent appliance repairman. He was authorized to perform warranty work by many big names like GE, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, etc. I assure you the problem is not parts availability parts are easy to get from the right places. The problem is the "higher end" companies such as Samsung, LG and Bosch who will provide no warranty support outside their own pathetic almost nonexistent network. So what are you supposed to do, mail your fridge out for repair? lol people usually just give up and replace their near new appliances out of pocket
@@scarling9367 Most refrigerators are replaced because of faulty doors. It's amazing that the complex stuff (compressors) hardly ever fails in any model.
Truth! A scam. Ppl are tired of this. Btw, Amana is a phenomenal maker of appliances that work great at reasonable prices. All my appliances are Amana bought new !
Harley Davidson illegally voiding my warranty after 3 years of not being able to fix my bike was the best thing that ever happened to me.i fixed it myself and 56k miles later still no problems.
@@Foolish188 Yup, replacing their shitty paper gaskets or enjoy your friends being able to tell everywhere you've parked due to the oil spots it will leave. 🤨
Awesome ! I do love an support HD. I ride HD bikes & drive Ford trucks only. Both never let me dwn ..even under very rough conditions. The trucks are far stronger than any others!
After high school, I worked as a professional mechanic for about seven years (I'd graduated from a trade school where I'd excelled in auto mechanics.). A few years after high school, I bought a brand new Pontiac Firebird from a dealer nearby. Within a couple of months, the speedometer cable broke. I brought the car to the Pontiac dealer to have it repaired. They didn't have that particular cable and it had to be ordered. Then it was backordered. After over a month without a speedometer they told me it was in and that I should bring the car in to have the cable installed. I did so. Within four weeks the cable broke again. I took the card back to the Pontiac dealer and demanded that they fix it. They refused, saying that I must have done something to cause the cable to break. I insisted and the owner of the dealership and I got into a yelling match in the parking lot - 60-year-old versus 20-year-old. I lost, he threw me off the premises and had me trespassed. By this time, with the help of my father who'd co-signed the loan, I'd purchased my own business, a service station with an automotive repair shop. Pissed off at the Pontiac dealer I got on the phone to Pontiac Motor Company in Michigan and demanded to speak to the CEO. They kept turning me over to people who were not the CEO and I got angrier and angrier. I called every day for nearly a week and finally a fellow who came on the line who claimed to be the CEO. I then raised hell with him over the dealer's shoddy work and demanded that, given my qualifications, I be allowed to do my own warranty work on my car. He agreed. In those days, every dealer had an in-house credit card to do warranty work with. The service manager would hold the card. When an invoice for warranty work was done, the service manager would charge the warranty-paid portion of the work to that card. About ten days after my conversation with that fellow at Pontiac, I received my own warranty card in the mail. From that point on, until I sold that car, I did all the work on the car. Any parts I needed, I would order the parts over the phone from the Pontiac dealer who didn't like me, then show up and pay for the parts with the warranty credit card. Every time I walked in that dealership and he saw me buying parts with that card, the dealer would insist that I remain until he called Pontiac in Michigan and verified that the card was still legit. I would always walk out the door holding my card up for him to see while silently mouthing 'fuck you' to the guy. It felt good to teach that old prick a lesson..
Well how do you expect the FTC to enforce something like that if when they do they might not get those nice lobbying positions with big paychecks after they leave the FTC?
We bought our washing machine at Lowe's. When they couldn't get warranty parts or repair in a timely manner, they simply gave us a new one. We'll buy our next one there too.
This is big problem in the medical industry. I have had manufacturers refuse to sell me a part as simple as a knob They insist that only their tech can do this. This is well after the end of warranty by the way. I know hospitals that had to pay to fly in repair techs for the simplest of repairs. Ironically if you take out a service contact with them they will send you the same part no problem.
That's strange at the hospital I work at the carts that nurses use to roam the floors with medications and past meds and do charting are serviced by the IT Help desk with parts delivered with return labels for any parts we have to replace. Medical equipment however is tended to by the vendors and the nursing staff have access to those vendor contacts when work is needed although I think most issues get swept by periodic checks by the vendors themselves.
You go into a store and purchase software that comes in a shrink wrapped box. Take it home and open it and the terms and conditions on the inside say that you only have a license to use the software. Do you own the software or do you only have a license to use it? It often says if you don't agree to the terms take it back to the store for a refund, but the store will refuse to take it back because it has been opened.
no one has litigated this. this may be one reason Microsoft quit making new operating systems. sooner or later someone would have litigated it given how.. functional Microsoft Operating systems are at launch. Note- the prior sentence may contain sarcasm. i do not accept any liability for explosive failure of sarcasm detectors.
There are some major problems with this paradigm. When machinery was analog, nobody seriously questioned the users right to work on their own equipment, even if all or part of it was patented. But computerize it, and suddenly you have to go to the manufacturer for repairs at their set non negotiable monopoly charges, which is against public policy in a free market economy. In effect, even though you bought it, you don't really own it, you buy it in its entirety but have to do the equivalent of renting it. Its like corporate socialism. Moreover, patents have a shelf life of 20 years, after which they go into the public domain. Copyrights by comparison, go for a hundred years. Copyrights are meant for literary, musical, artistic or like expression. But software code writers and even circuitboard designers will copyright their work, in effect creating a hundred year patent, clearly an abusive interpretation of intellectual property. So don't sympathize with the crocodile tears of the equipment suppliers. Save it for Joe Lunchpail working stiffs and family farmers that just want to buy, OWN, and repair their equipment, and not be high tech serfs on a medieval lord's corporate estate.
@@jacqueslefave4296 Just a heads up, the "family farm" no longer exists and has not for at least a couple of generations. If you are a successful farmer today you are a multimillionaire.
@@johnnylightning1491 I know families that have farms, and although they may have it in S corporations, LLC's, or family trusts, they may have large valued holdings, it is generally not very liquid, i.e, they could not write a large check for something frivolous, most of the money is tied up in land, expensive equipment such as combines, grain solos, and inventory such as fertilizers, livestock and such, it is a risky venture that depends on conditions that are beyond their control, such as the weather and fickle commodity markets. Before Trump had the death tax repealed, they often had to mortgage the farm to pay the taxes, and sometimes the mortgage was barely paid off before the next family head died and the process started again. No wonder so many threw in the towel, sold out to a corporation and moved to the city. Corporations don't die so they don't have to pay death taxes.😬
Earlier you could buy a software and if you did not need ít anymore you could sell the copy to someone else. The company have talked of licenses etc,. but that was just legal nonsense. Now everything is tied to some cloud account and when you go to store you seldom even buy a copy, you get a card with a number and you download the software. There is no copy that you could sell and even then it would be tied to your cloud account. Also because of the could connection the company can essentially disable the software at any time. I had Eye-Fi SD-cards that I used to transfer images from my camera to my phone, a completely local operation. Yet they were somehow tied to cloud and were disabled when the company ended the service. Fortunately I managed to get a third party app to do the same.
This is why any time I purchase a device that has a "Warranty void if removed or broken" type of seal, I remove it from the device, since it's illegal in the US. Then I ask them, "How much money do you want to waste on your VERY expensive lawyers in small claims court proving that I damaged it by breaking this seal?" if they try to void my warranty. It's worked EVERY time.
I once got denied warranty coverage for a pair of LG bluetooth headphones because of "abuse". My abuse was normal daily use on my commute to work by bicycle. I could have probably tried to fight it, but instead I just warn people off buying LG products everywhere I can and will until the end of my time on this Earth.
I bought 2 USB Xbox 360 controllers on ebay once (likely knockoffs). One of them arrived with a broken button inside. I opened it up and took some pictures told the seller that there was no need to send it back told them how much it would cost me to fix it myself and they gave me a partial refund. And this was a Chinese seller. Kind of lucky. They really like those positive feedbacks.
I once did a service on a cement mixer with a Deutz V-8 air cooled diesel. A week or so later it came back running poorly and the problem was diagnosed as a broken lifter and I eventually found a part of an internal oil filter gasket in the oil galley feeding the camshaft. I took pictures and recovered the gasket piece and sent them to Fleetguard, a large manufacturer of heavy duty equipment filters. They, to their credit, and with no threats whatsoever, covered the repair of that engine.
I think we might also need to talk about e-commerce, specifically Amazon. Too often the response from manufacturers is "sorry we can't honor your warranty, you didn't purchase from an authorized seller". Very convenient excuse.
When we bought machines, some of which cost over $500,000, we specified in the purchase contract that parts manuals, service manuals, electrical schematics and hydraulic schematics were to be included. The contracts were usually written for one third with the order, the second third paid when it shipped and the third installment once it was in operation. They didn't get the third payment until all of the manuals and schematics were there. There was a sweeper that the company bought and didn't make the third payment until over a year later because the manufacturer refused to supply the information. They were even foolish enough to go to court to try to get paid without supplying the information.
Exactly. The company decided to force you to take them to court, they had a good idea what the costs would be, they need to pay. The actual damages awarded should not matter. Need to sue the judge for not doing his job, but can't.
You know, I really learn a lot by watching your videos and truly enjoy them, but have to tell you that your "shower thoughts" at the end really finish it off!
Magnasum-Moss was a saving grace for me. 2016 F150 with bad EPAS. Was in the shop a dozen times, and because I put 33,000 miles on in a year, blew through Lemon Law miles period before I reached the 3 repairs/30 days out of service in order to file. With 56,000 miles, nearing the 60K warranty limit, and issues still unresolved, I sued, I won, used the money to equal the inequity on the truck and traded it in on one I special ordered to replace it. Make sure you keep all records of repairs, all receipts, everything.
Yeah, it's more than someone telling you not to do it. Sometimes it requires a scan tool that's not available on the market... at all. Or machines disabling themselves because they need to be synched with propriety software.
Yeah, Samsung and Apple will prevent your device from working even if you use official parts. Samsung does it subtly by making the camera glitch out. Apple just says FU
Imagine your under warranty, or 3 year old 2500$(or more) refrigerator breaks down and they tell you they can schedule you two months out. How do you function out of a cooler, with a family, for 2 months? A real hardship that many people go through.
Worse is an RV. Schedule for the dealer to look at it in 3 months for "diagnosis". Then wait 3 more months for it to be scheduled into the repair shop. Steve has an "opinion" about this. Fun to watch as long as you are not a current victim.
@@jackb1803 The worst is a farm tractor. Your tractor breaks down and the dealer can fix it in two months. However, you need to harvest all your crops within a week or so or else all your income for the entire year literally decays into worthlessness in your fields. And this of course increases average food prices because you aren’t the only one who this happened to, and the supply of food is lowered.
They still play warranty games. Example: our brand new 5500 watt, $900 300# gasoline generator .. brand new and failed immediately. Under warranty for two years but cannot take back to the retailer for replacement but must ship to manufacturer and then wait on them diddling whether they get it repaired or replaced in an undefined amount of time. Yeah .. ship 300# and wait meanwhile without the availability should it's need arise during a power outage. Great stuff eh?
Right to repair has been a real issue in tech for as long as i've been working in the field. I started as a computer repair tech back in the mid 80's, and schematics were not available if you weren't an authorized dealer. Luckily, the computers back then were simple enough that you really didn't need the schematics a lot of times, but it was not fun if you were an independent shop. I worked at an authorized shop, and occasionally an independent would bring in a machine they could not fix and basically pay us to fix it, so that they would not lose face with their customers. Fun times.
i was in the printing business. bought new equipment (from a national company) from a local dealer, which closed shortly after. when i called for warranty service i was told i would have to pay $225.00 for "travel time" from another dealer.the repairman said he would have to go back to get parts. you guessed it! i would have to pay travel time again! call to home office did get me satisfaction from a very nice woman. i feel someone else on that call would have been different outcome.
So what about Apple? Replace a battery in a new device with an Apple battery from another same Apple device and it will refuse to recognize it until an Apple approved repair facility certifies the repair (which they refuse to do). Who's gonna sue them?
Part of Apple's argument is that it helps prevent stolen phones from being parted out and ensures that the customer knows that the battery is not brand new, and to the first, I want proof that that's an ubiquitous problem and the second one could be a one time disclaimer.
Why would you do that? Just buy a new off brand battery from ifixit. I’ve been replacing iPhone batteries forever and never a problem except sometimes a bad replacement battery.
This isn't 100% related but I like when you buy something in a package that is destroyed during opening, then find out that returns must be in original packaging.
I had a Eagle Talon and the transmission blew and the warranty company (GE) refused to cover it. The service person at the dealership told me to file it in small claims because it should be covered. I did file it and a attorney for GE called me from Colorado and paid me over the phone.
Back in the older days when I was working on television and stereo both of these items had a printout of all the parts inside the panels of the TV and stereo when you wanted to fix it yourself. But today you don't see that inside of the stereo or a TV.
Hell you can't even buy their parts or any schematics. They should be responsible for removing all electronic waste of theirs that ends up in our landfills and see how quick they quit the BS and bend over backwards to let us keep their products out of the landfill.
I chuckle at the aftermarket oil filter because I owned a 1988 Hyundai Excel GS and when I went to change me oil I could not fit my hand or an oil filter wrench to take the filter off. I took it to.a quick change place who pierced the filter with a screwdriver to remove it and replaced it with a half height oil filter. Problem solved?
The problem I hve seen is when one company purchases another then refuses to honor the original warranty .... the name remained the same but the new company is now producing products somewhere else and states that parts for what you bought are no longer available so the warranty is no longer valid.
the way to get around the bmw car is to take it to a non bmw dealer, as here in nz we are covered by the consumers guarantee act, which means we have to contact the dealer and give them the chance to fix it, but if they dont we can use another dealer and send them the bill, the fines to companies that try to get out can be in the 100 thousands of dollars
That's why anytime a salesman tries to sell me on a warranty, I tell them to shut-tf up and stop lying to me. I've had several warranties not honored, big and small.
I've been fixing (or trying to fix) stuff that broke in my parents home and now my home since I was a kid. Usually it was something simple that I could figure out, but now a lot of things are a bit more complicated and difficult to get the parts. However, I have repaired a broken tv by getting a part from a different broken tv (same make and model) for a fraction of the price of getting a whole new one. Spent roughly $1000 total for the 2 tvs, which would have ended up costing over $4000.
Steve, I was in the auto repair business for many years, long ago I was told that if the manufacturer required that their part ( filters, oil, etc) were required, they had to supply them free of charge. I have never come across the issue, but it just doesn't sound right.
I'm glad you're giving attention to the right-to-repair subject. It is very important. In automotive, thanks to efforts in the past, we now have a lemon law, schematics are available, oil filters and other parts are available from 3rd-party suppliers. But at consumer electronics manufacturers are still allowed to screw with us. Printers will only print when OEM cartridges are fitted, which contain OEM ink. Imagine if your car would limit itself to max 15mph if you would install a 3rd-party oil filter! Or worse: that for example Ford would make cars that have that genuine-oil-filter-protection built-in and that Ford would restrict their oil-filter supplier to sell that genuine Ford oil filter only to Ford, so nobody would be able to even get hold of a Ford oil filter, to be able to change it by themselves. So your only choice would be: go to the Ford dealer, or, have a car that goes 15mph max. Well, Apple already does this: replacement chips for modern iPhones are unobtainable. For example, the chip that charges the battery. Same function as needed in all smartphones, no exception. But Apple changed it a bit to make it unique to Apple. And Apple made sure that no one but Apple can buy that chip from the chip manufacturer. So you have no other choice than bringing that iPhone to an Apple Store, in order to have it fixed, IF they can fix it. (they won't fix older models; you're supposed to buy new). If they can fix it, you'll pay premium price and your iphone's memory will be wiped when you get it back. All the while an independent repair shop will be able to replace that chip professionally without wiping your data. If they would be able to get a hold of such a chip. Or any other part. And what about farm equipment? Harvesters that quit working mid-harvest, because a sensor stops working and farmers have to wait for an authorized repair facility to come out and replace it. Because the manufacturer made sure that it cannot be replaced by the farmer himself. I get it. There's safety and emissions regulations and the manufacturer is probably liable if something happens in these areas. But at least give the farmers the option to assume liability, apply a temporary fix, and finish the harvest, instead of letting them wait and watch their crop wither away. So, at cars, we can have our windscreen fixed by any car glass company. But at iPhones, if the screen gets damaged, your only choice will be the Apple store. And you might think: this won't affect me, I'm using an Android phone. Well... Samsung is copying Apple's 'innovations'. Years ago, the battery was a user-replaceable item. Well, not anymore, thanks to Apple. If we don't do anything, all of the customer electronics will follow this direction. And the automotive industry is trying as well: on select cars, the oil dipstick has been replaced by electronics and there are brands that even chipped their starter battery so only OEM batteries will work. So, replace your battery by yourself and a few days later you won't be able to start your car. Nice job, BMW. And electric cars... They all contain a powerful battery and a heavy-duty inverter that is perfectly able to generate 120V, 240V AC and even 3-phase, but none offer it as an option. Would be very handy on camping trips, for work outdoors or in case of grid failure. But even if you would have the skillset that would enable you to add that by yourself safely, then they'll probably punish you by remotely disable features like fast-charge, driving assists and possibly even the ability to drive altogether.
I bought a 12 volt water pump at a local Tractor supply, 3 months later, it stops working, I go to the store, and want to exchange it , for a replacement, the store manager,,,,, why the manager has to get involved with exchanging a $130. item, i have no idea, The women says its a "limited warranty" I said limited to what ....all it should do is pump water.... and it no longer does ,,,,she eventually exchanged it , but what nonsense .
I was going to make a snarky comment about the administration in power when these issues were presented to the FTC, but I'll let someone else do that. Keep the good stuff coming Steve.
Steve, here is something you might find interesting with regard to factory warranties. On a car warranty, like Ford (I used to work for a Ford Dealership). They get very clever in the small print. They state; "if the failure of a covered repair is caused by the failure of a non-covered part, then the entire repair under warranty is void. Here is a case where I was able to get a customer about two grand back concerning a warranty repair. The owner of the dealership used to have different things that he wanted to try out, so he would put me on these projects. One of these was having me call service customers and follow up on our warranty and non-warranty repairs. One day, I called up a customer and we ended up shooting the breeze. He was telling me about when he had to have his engine completely rebuilt and even though he had purchased a Ford Red Carpet warranty, he was made to pay the bill. This guy had left a service plaza north of West Palm Beach and soon after getting up to highway speed, his engine suddenly quit. He was towed to a very small dealer by Lake Okeechobee. For the reason, mentioned above, they discovered that a lower hose had broken, the oil leaked out and the engine suddenly seized up. I will add that this guy was a pilot so he was used to paying attention to sounds, vibrations and instruments. I told him, that I was going to do some research and call him back tomorrow. I had been shown the warranty service manual and they had me read over it as a reference. I had remembered that part and something else. There was an "*" with a footnote that said "except in Florida" (This was a service manual for the SE United States. To regress, during the 70's, people would come down to S. Florida from NY and NJ. They would open up a store. One that comes to mind was an appliance store by the name of Kennedy and Cohen. Their method of operation was to sell an appliance at a low cost and then talk the customer into an extended ten year warranty at what appeared to be an excellent deal. It was like, no out of pocket costs. After a few years, warranty claims started coming in. Someone's refrigerator would break down. When the service man would examine the fridge, he would inform the customer that the failure of the compressor was caused by the failure of the belt that was turning the compressor, since the "rubber band" that was turning the compressor was not covered by the warranty, then the compressor was not covered and the customer had to pay for both parts and labor. This and other companies, with their many S. Florida locations, had endless complaints coming in to Tallahassee. In a very rare move, the state legislature made this practice illegal. Under state law, they did not have to cover the cost of the rubber band, but they did have to cover the part that died and was covered by the extended warranty. The next day, I called our customer back and explained this to him. He verified this with Tallahassee and then sent a certified letter of complaint to Ford's warranty department in Dearborn MI. A couple of days later, he was called by the secretary to the head of Ford warranty dept. (which I believe, is part of Ford Financial Services). The next day, he received a check by FedEx, in full compensation for his engine repairs. Here is where the teeth of the law come into play. Extended warranties are sold by the finance department of a dealer. This department must be licensed by the state to write finance contracts and to sell extended warranties. Because of this, the State of Florida has the authority to suspend the writing of all extended warranties from Ford, in the State of Florida. Florida regulates the sale of insurance policies within the state and an extended warranty is considered to be ab insurance policy. Just a note to people who live in Florida. NEVER buy an extended warranty from an out of state company. If they don't cover the terms of the warranty, you have little to no practical recourse. Buy from a dealership's finance department and you hold a lot of power. You can see from Steve's video why this is so important!
I've used Costco to refill my HP printer ink cartridges for years in the same printer. After a recent "update", the recently refilled WORKING cartridge won't work now. I had to toss it & spend $47 on a new one.
I JUST had the EXACT same problem with my HP laser printer-- updated and then didn't work due to my generic 1/3-the-price-but-just-as-good cartridges. I was able to find someone online who had an older previous update file, downloaded it, installed it, set the printer to not do auto updates, and boom, it works again! Now I have to hope this printer works a long time or else I'll have to figure out which brand of printer besides hp will allow the user to use generic cartridges.
@@probuilder961 Find a friend or family member who is good with tech. I did have to do a bit of searching to find the older update file, but it is possible. My laser printer is still fairly young, and I not only have a whole set of generic cartridges still at least half full in it, I also have another full set sitting on the shelf. No way was I going to waste them, lol.
Question, Apple prevents supplies from making parts available to be used by independent repair shops. Is that a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act?
It's absurd to me that judges don't grant attorney's fees even when entitled by statute. Even if the cost of litigation far exceeded the matter of contention it seems completely perverse to me that a judge would shield the defendant when they knew the risks.
What about the products that include a registration card. They say that you can't get the warranty UNLESS you fill out the registration card within a certain number of days...Is that legal? I see that all the time.
Louis Rossman has a go fund me for a direct ballot initiative for right to repair. If you're reading this and care about right to repair you should check out his channel. He has a pretty solid idea of right to repair that I agree with.
I recall my Father talking about taking the car to the dealer once and getting flak because it didn't have a Mopar oil filter. This was way back in the mid 1970s though.
Kia/Hyundai have tried that stuff as late as like 2013 with the oil filters. Voiding engine warranty on an already problematic engine. What most people dont realize either is that there are only so many manufacturers of products. Some brands may use a slightly different material or design, but they 90% are reboxed from a certain manufacturer. When I worked at Napa for years, it would be funny when we'd get a new order of electronics like say map sensors and the 1 part # would literally have scratched out oe part #s on the whole lot. Then the next part # would be made by say Delphi. Although we sold the Delphi line too but was always more expensive. So just like many things we have a bunch of reboxing companies out there, so in no way should we be punished unless there is proof of failure do to an aftermarket product. Back to the oil and filters. Bob is the oil guy is a great website for consumer info. With many cut open filters to show how similar most are.
Circa 2007, the transmission failed on my 2003 Acura TL with nearly 90,000 miles. There was a known defect with some of the transmissions on that vehicle, but mine was outside the serial number range that was then covered by a service note and wty extension. This happened on a Friday night. On Saturday, my dealer had a tow truck pick up the vehicle and tow it more than 40 mi to the dealership. By Monday afternoon, Acura had approved a wty replacement, the dealership supplied me with a loaner vehicle, and my car was repaired within a few days. Zero cost to me, just some inconvenience for a few days. That transmission lasted another 100k+ miles. They never did manage to fix the problems with that model transmission and simply stopped using it. But I think honoring the wty on a vehicle with nearly 90k miles when the wty at purchase was 3yrs or 36k miles should be noted as a company with a commitment to excellence in quality and in customer satisfaction.
RUclipsr and mac book repairman Louis Rossman has started a nonprofit go fund me page to fight for the right to repair. they have already raised nearly half a mil. According to an article written by Duane Pozza and Roger Miksad in 2019 the Magnuson and Moss act was not drafted with digital devices in mind, and the FTC has struggled with understanding how best to apply it outside the motor industry. It is my opinion that should the right to repair act gain traction and passes legislature it would create precedent and clear the waters for the Mag and Moss act to be more effectively applied.
I am in the machine tool business. Our industry is overwhelmed with this practice. We will take a standard, commercially available part, like a bearing, modify it slightly and brand it an OEM part. It may be as simple as etching a line on the part. Use the original part and you just saved us big money. The price you pay for the machine has a large chunk dedicated to covering warranties. When our service tech calls in that he found after market parts, that $250k just shifted from the warranty column to the profit column. The entire warranty has now been voided because one part affects others and we can’t be sure their wasn’t “damage” due to that. Of course it’s a scam, but we’re undefeated in court so far. Read the print on the purchase agreement you’re signing
A common complaint of Louis Rossman is that big companies will pressure manufacturers not to sell the parts needed for device repair to anybody except the retailer of that device (example, Apple doesn't want parts for its products being sold to other companies). Would this qualify as an illegal trust under anti-trust law?
Dear Steve, love the topic. Touching on your oil filter/oil comment. The cost of a Ford oil filter and oil, when purchased from Amazon, is, in sum no different from like parts purchased at a major parts retailer then why not purchase the manufactures products and eliminate the issue altogether? Equally important, i find that many dealers sell parts at a discount prices over the the internet which is another reason to make the purchase. Lastly, with many parts being manufactured cheaply in China, I would gladly purchase a manufactured part(s) from the manufacture if for no other reason, for the quality control the engineering standards and quality controls the manufacture specifies.
Louis Rossman is a electronics repair business owner and RUclips advocate for Right to Repair who is currently running a fundraiser to get a direct ballot initiative regarding right to repair in Massachusetts. It would be wonderful if his campaign were to get more exposure from your channel Mr. Lehto
Glad to see this one. The swiss mfg of your watch is one of the big mfgs that limits parts so that no one but breitling can repair it. I repair watches and this is a huge deal. You might want to search for articles about right to repair pertaining to watches. For example Rolex will deem a watch as a fake if a customer puts on after market parts and either refuse to repair it or force a customer to replace to put rolex parts back on the watch at the customers expense. Breitling is the same way with regard to this.
I work for a company that makes lighting products and I have often wondered about this. Products with ~5-10 year warranties will eventually be discontinued and/or parts are unavailable/discontinued by their various suppliers and a customer needs to make a warranty claim. In some cases customers / electricians / problem solvers will troubleshoot and fix the product themself because getting service through us might be too slow or might not need their needs anymore (we might have to offer something of equivalent performance but different aesthetically as a replacement). They will contact us saying they replaced x component with some off the shelf component they managed to find to make the light work and now they want us to cover their costs, or demand we honor the warranty after they modified the product. From our end we have a few problems - we generally want defective products returned to us so analysis can be performed to figure out failure trends and to see if an installer caused the failure (drilled holes into a product and now its leaking. hmph). If we get a product back that has been modified - and/or no longer has its original components what should we do? I think we generally would deny a claim on an item like this. We need accurate test data to truly figure out whats wrong with our products and now what? Do we have to run sets of reliability tests or teardowns on some component someone picked up at an online parts supplier to see it it was the cause of the failure? Or that it likely wasnt? We have no manpower available to do that. Are we entitled to that test data or to say an unmodified product must come back to us before we will send a complete replacement? Another issue we often run into is that these are (albeit simple) electrical devices that go through certification processes and extensive durability testing to ensure they will last for 5-10+ years of service. When someone subs in a component that works - there is no guarantee that its rated appropriately for its environment, or to withstand the electrical or physical conditions it might face installed on a bridge underpass. Maybe they swapped in a component that works but its now overpowering or underpowering the LEDs leading to the color changing or causing the LEDs to degrade much faster than we found in durability testing. Maybe they swapped in a component that isn't properly tested by the various governing bodies or us and now the light is a shock or falling hazard. Seems like an odd situation - we sold a product - its warrantied for 10 years - 8 years into the warranty we maybe no longer have the ability to source any parts for it and our only option is to offer alternative products or refunds. If a customer repaired their fixture 9 years into the warranty and got it working - then it failed again and they bring it to us - what do we do? It seems like we cant say fixing the product on your own voids the warranty but... we are basically doing that because of a multitude of reasons and situations that come up.
Steve, there is more to write to repair than just the legal ability to fix it yourself. There's also access to parts and access to information about how whatever it is you bought works. Looking at just one example in the field of tractor repair which is issue because of the cost of towing one of these bad boys to the dealer. You do something as simple as replace the alternator you have to reprogram the onboard computer to work with that new alternative, if you can't do that unless you have access to the dealer's software and electronic toolbox. All of that software's denied access farmers who can easily swap an alternator any day of the week and twice on Sunday and to Independent repair shops like to house calls instead of a huge tow bill that the dealer would require. Lewis Rossman in New York sites apples example where they will buy a certain ship from a chipmaker and contractually obligate them to sell that s*** only back to Apple, preventing any independent repair shops from flying them fixing Apple products. None of the current warranty laws at the state or federal level cover these situations and mandate access to information, software and parts needed to fix modern technology.
Whats up Steve.. new listener and excited about the warranty act... with the chrysler powertrain warranty was a purchased addition that a lot of people have been denied.. i myself had an oil pump failure... had it towed to the recommended repair shop, where there deemed i neglected my engine with 80k miles... i told them it was the oil pump... after 800.00 in repair diagnosis... they said i needed a new engine.. i had the truck towed to my house... purchased the new oil pump from the dealership that said it needed an engine... and now the truck has 244k miles on it... how do i 1 get my money back feom the other repairs that would have been covered...
It goes substantially deeper than just to voiding warranties. Even after the warranty has expired, manufacturers employ strategies to prevent other repair shops from repairing their products so that they have a monopoly on the repair business. They put serialized devices into batteries so that the device will refuse to operate unless their certified technicians changed the battery. They make illicit agreements with part manufacturers to prevent critical parts from being available to private companies. They lobby federal, state, and local representatives to "protect their intellectual property" from "reverse engineering" even when the technology is so out-dated that "they cannot afford to support it any longer." If device owners cannot get the devices repaired, then their options are reduced to doing without the device or to purchasing a new device. Ecologically and politically, this is destructive, but financially this makes more sales and money.
Perfect case in point, I purchased a replacement distributor for my truck and taped across the distributor and cap was a seal stating 'Removal of this seal voids all warranty'. Well when replacing a distributor, you need to remove the cap from the assembly during instillation in order to assure the assembly, it's rotor button, and it's cap all remain positioned in correlation to the first cylinder of the engine being at compression 'TDC'... So basically that manufacturer either A) intentions are to say the part is only covered under warranty if it remains uninstalled, B) has little to no understanding of how the parts they manufacture operate, which I would find even more unsettling, or C) expect you to just install in blind faith and hope your 1-in-4, 1-in-6, or 1-in-8 chances are good odds. Needless to say, I promptly boxed it back up, returned it, and purchased a more reliable brand.
Manufacturers are not voiding warranties. that is a legal action and its not legal. What they are doing is "refusing to honor" warranties ie they are breaking the law. the problem is they can largely do this with impunity since most people don't have the resources to do something about it. The burden is on the manufacturer to PROVE the abuse or repair is what caused the warranty repair. This is also where using the right CREDIT CARD (for things smaller than a car) IE you dispute the charge and TAKE the money back from them by force.
I met an attorney who said he makes money suing people. He got $500,000 from Computer manufacturers that put "made in usa" and changing to "made in the usa with foreign and domestic parts."
Well.... This video explains, exactly why I had such trouble getting a lawyer, when I purchased NEW (not used), a FCA 2017 Dodge Journey, which I had to take back to Rick Hendrick CDJR (dealership) and other dealers, a total of FOURTEEN times, in the first year of ownership... I had a NWS meteorologist ask if MY OWN CAR was my rental car for this week.... Auto manufacturers and dealers are SO scummy....
Steve, we spoke about the EGR cooler that fails in the Ford 6.0 diesel and can destroy the engine. Ford has not re-engineered the part. A replacement part is available after-market and it was re-engineered not to fail. If you put the good after-market part in your Ford they will void any warranty on the truck, yet all they offer (at your expense) is the same defective part that failed in the first place. This is why you must have a right to repair when the OEM fails their customers so badly.
at one point someone wanted the feds to eliminate 2 regulations for every one they create. probably the regulations that require the response by the FTC were easy targets for regulations to cancel.
It's worse than you think, Steve. Buick offers free oil changes for new purchases, then claim the changes are only required at 6,000 miles. The owner's manual CLEARLY states the oil change cycle is 3,000 miles, but they insist the interval is 6,000 miles. When pressed, they complied with their own owner's manual, but it is clear they are trying to void there own warranties on purpose and with intent.
@Steven Lehto I remember that Cadillac required a Cadillac battery or they would void the warranty. There was a court case ruled that sucn a requirement could exist if the parts and labor for such a requirement were provided free! And, from what I recall, the company would have to prove that an aftermarket or generic part is inadequate compared to an OEM part.
Not a surprise. The FTC never doesn't do anything about Big Tech's obvious non-competitive practices, despite they already being against the law either!
3:06 Here's how to "fix" the problem with those stickers: If a manufacturer puts those stickers on, the warranty has no expiration date, no exclusions, and repairs must be completed within 90 days at *no* cost (including shipping, handling, and postage) to the consumer. In other words: Forever responsible for fixing the product. 9:23 How to fix illegal exclusions: If even one is present, the warranty changes to the one above.
"Our tax dollars hard at waste." Best statement I've heard today.
On the other hand, think how horrible it would be if we got all the government we pay for.
@@c.s.p.schofield2202 id rather see it used properly than in the their pockets.
Still great!
I’d rather them leave me the Hell alone.
This is what happens when lobbiests are allowed to be a thing. They should all be barred from existing.
John Deere is notorious for voiding warranties on their equipment to the point the farmers association in Nebraska went to the Nebraska government to get the to step in. Deere won't give the owners of the equipment the software to diagnose the problems and force people to trailer the equipment to the shop sometimes costing up to 5 grand in transport. Some farmers have had to hack the computer system on the equipment which of course voids the warranty.
Crap like that is why my last purchase was a Husqvarna.
That John deere Green color paint they use is very pricey
the time has come for the farmers to rip out all the computer crap that runs the machine and go back to a simple internal combustion engine with no electronic crap to hold them back. something they can roll into the barn and repair it by the next day when the harvest wont wait 4 days for tech to come fix it or trailer it to town this nonsense has to stop
@@kirkyorg7654 There has been an increase in the market for pre 00's equipment for just this reason. Farming is much less sustainable if the farmers can't work on their own equipment.
@@kirkyorg7654 "the time has come for the farmers to rip out all the computer crap that runs the machine" Yeah, that ain't happening. The "computer crap" has become an integral part of the operation of machinery. If you "rip out the computer crap" your machine is about as useful as if you'd ripped out the crankshaft.
The worst part of the right to repair is when the manufacturer disables the device like a cell phone or tractor detects a non official repair work.
Part of the right to repair Act is making available parts and tools and literature in order to repair the item
@@tomwilliam5118 Or not inhibiting others that might provide service work, parts, tools, or literature/schematics. So someone might make schematics or software available and be sued for doing so. The law suit alone shut down the business.
Apple
@@pollodormido2 This is why Apple products are banned in my home. Their practices are shady and many times illegal. They keep doing it because they keep getting away with it and fanboys keep feeding them money.
This happened with my Canon printer after installing an after market ink cartridge.
For those wanting to learn more go to Louis Rossmann channel. He has a electronic repair shop in New York and has been doing videos on this for years. One of the things he has highlighted is manufactures inventing special fasteners and tools for those fasteners and then patenting them so they can go after anyone that tries to sell the tools so others can access the piece of equipment.
Steve should definitely talk to Louis (and vice-versa)
I agree!
Louis has a gofundme now to get this on a ballot initiative in, I believe, Massachusetts.
@@ericvenneker
Yeah, their audiences and demographics don't overlap too much, and while Louis' young idealistic base is important, Steve's audience skews towards older experienced people who are more likely to vote. Louis has said that he is willing to talk to anyone at this point. The barrier is more or less getting them connected.
@@ericvenneker And Jessa Jones.
@@stevef68 You're right
This topic needs more media attention. Keep spreading the word (I'm also a Louis Rossman fan).
Yes, Louis is super passionate about right to repair.
I'm a fan, too.
Agreed about Louis rossman. He has covered this topic well and has gone to official meetings for these
Gee another gov't agency not doing it's job.
Curious if this opens the companies up to a class action?
Great coverage of this. About a week ago Louis Rossman - another RUclipsr - started a GoFundMe to hire the same firm that got an automotive right-to-repair law passed through a ballot initiative in Mass. This one would be for an electronic right-to-repair ballot initiative.
From techies to farmers, westerners have caught on to proprietary scams on a grand scale.
Exactly Louis has been one of the main guys testifying before state legislatures on right to repair. He has hundreds of examples of Apple and others trying to control the repair business and charging so much for the repair you might as well buy new.
Good on him! I live in MA and luckily the most recent right-to-repair initiative here was passed by the voters (barely), but the TV ads full of lies coming from opponents of the measure were just amazing.
@@rationalbushcraft
www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed
He has raised a bit of cash, so far. It is, what it is!
That is why I don't buy Apple. They are the worst right to repair offender, wanting to charge people $300-$400 for something that people like Louis Rossman will fix for $50.
The first name people think of when right to repair comes up is Louis Rossmann.
He has a wonderful channel and is dedicated to right to repair.
Steve, one of the biggest problems in our society (from my perspective) is government failing to enforce exiting laws. What are our options to compel the government to do it's job and enforce the laws? Passing more laws clearly isn't the answer.
yep, repeal of Glass Steagal has cost us over 22T$...and that's just the start
One solution that has been tried, for example with the ADA, is where private citizens are incentivized to litigate against people who violate the appropriate law. Basically, partial privitization of the enforcement of these types of laws.
How about the govt shipping in illegal aliens and moving them to sanctuary cities. It illegal for a person to do it, but its ok for government to do it. Typical govt bull shit. Laws for thee and not for me. Goverment doesn't punish government. (Source is Inforwars). This is going on right now 4/14/21
@@thirtythree160 now you get it...code of Honorabi is better
I would say do something with crowdfunding, however I don't know if even that would work.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is great for products that are supposed to still be under warranty but Right to Repair as a whole is intended to stop the predatory actions by manufacturers who go out of their way to inhibit customers from repairing products they purchased both under warranty and after that warranty has expired.
If I own a smart phone that had a 1 year warranty and I want to replace the camera sensor because it failed after 18 months, some manufacturers will cause the device to become completely inoperable even if you replace the camera sensor with another working sensor from that manufacturer. In this example, the phone is not under warranty anymore but is still an otherwise perfectly usable device, save for a broken camera.
Right to Repair seeks to ensure manufacturers cannot continue to control the fate of devices after sale by ensuring the tools, schematics, manuals, etc. are made available to independent repair facilities.
Thank you for the video Mr. Lehto.
Given how many devices these days are entirely or contain computers, I bet you culd get a company that bricked your device that way for violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
By some manufacturers do you mean Apple? 🍎 does that by hardcoding a serial number with tiny resistors into their parts. Then another chip reads those codes and enables or refuses to enable certain parts bases on that and some other things.
What about the heinous practice of Apple and Samsung, wherein they sent "upgrades" to legacy phones of their which DISABLED them? The idea being that they made these phones "too good", i.e., they were out-lasting the envisioned two-year service life, and users were hanging on to their "legacy" phones, satisfied with them. Also, although due to competitive pressure, the phone makers have been making their devices faster and with more memory, they've also pressured the developers to increase the memory requirements for their apps, rendering the old phones useless, as many common third-party apps won't run when "upgraded" on legacy systems. It also doesn't help that many OS and "approved" apps have a lot of BLOATWARE, more intended as "spyware" or "adware", than to actually perform a useful function.
@@joshnabours9102 All of them, it’s not just Apple.
I tried to order a replacement fan blade from Vornado because their "shop" fan model dropped and broke the blade. It wasn't even on at the time. They voided the warranty because I fixed it myself using a Honeywell fan blade. Quote from them: "However by modifying your unit with a different blade, you voided all warranty." But they also explained that it warranty was only for the motor and electrical. They were happy to sell me their fan blade for $20. (This is an 8" fan.) I bought the entire Honeywell fan for $15. And this is why we buy from China.... at least we know what we're getting. This whole "Buy American!" hogwash is stupid if the American companies ask for premium prices and then walk away from the support aspect of it.
Vornado fans have been made in China for quite awhile now. I have a couple of the ancient American-made ones.
Warranty expired decades ago, but they still work!
Let’s not get into the issue that manufactures contractually oblige their part suppliers not sell to anyone but them so they can’t be fixed.
This is a huge part of the issue as well. They tell them to not sell the required parts for repair to anyone else but them, or else they lose that lucrative contract with said company.
I like Zippo's warranty on their lighters. If it breaks for any reason they will fix it (if possible or replace it (if it can't be fixed) free of charge. People have intentionally destroyed lighters in bizarre ways to test the replacement warranty. Zippo has been doing this for decades.
Another interesting warranty I've heard of is Rainbow sandals. If your shoe wears out or breaks before the rainbow logo on the sole* is worn off, they will replace it free of charge. Of course they may not have that warranty anymore, I'm not exactly sure but I know that was a thing they had for a while.
Edit: punctuation and grammar
Yes Zippo one of the last made in the USA products that stand behind their lifetime warranty
That’s why I only buy Zippo lighters. Well that and I like the sound they make. 😂
i had the same experience with a Leatherman pocket tool. the pliers cracked at the joint. went to a dealer and was on my way out the door with a replacement in minutes. even asked me if i needed a new case free, which i didn't.
@@toolmanthetim7042 nice remember craftsman used to be that way years ago too.
I had a customer who had a pool heater, they said that it would void the warranty if they had it fixed. I installed a new fan motor as the factory part was 7 weeks out. When the phoned that they where coming to fix it. I want back ahead of them and put the old motor in, so they could fix it.
Stupid rules require stupid actions!
That works, so long as the factory repairman doesn't notice scratches or marks that it's been worked on (or doesn't care). You're still out the cost of the first motor, but I guess you'll still have a spare for after the warranty ends.
@@sunbeam8866 is on the beach. There are scraches galore. The condo would have been out pool heat when it was wanted the most real spring. Fighting them over the federal regulations would have been more costly.
The problem with appliance repair when it comes to refrigerator or washing machines ect is there is never parts available to fix it. They tell you it's months before they're available or worse they don't know when they'll be able to get the parts. It forces consumers to waste money replacing whole units.
Ran into that with a fridge. We were missing the middle hinge and it took four months and an ebay purchase to fix it.
and the EU recently is forcing manufactures of appliances to make them repairable for ten years to reduce waste. www.bbc.com/news/business-49884827
Buddy of mine until recently was an independent appliance repairman. He was authorized to perform warranty work by many big names like GE, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, etc. I assure you the problem is not parts availability parts are easy to get from the right places. The problem is the "higher end" companies such as Samsung, LG and Bosch who will provide no warranty support outside their own pathetic almost nonexistent network. So what are you supposed to do, mail your fridge out for repair? lol people usually just give up and replace their near new appliances out of pocket
@@scarling9367 Most refrigerators are replaced because of faulty doors. It's amazing that the complex stuff (compressors) hardly ever fails in any model.
Truth! A scam. Ppl are tired of this. Btw, Amana is a phenomenal maker of appliances that work great at reasonable prices. All my appliances are Amana bought new !
This man became a hero today.
Harley Davidson illegally voiding my warranty after 3 years of not being able to fix my bike was the best thing that ever happened to me.i fixed it myself and 56k miles later still no problems.
You still own their product.
They won.
@@gatekeeper65 right. Nobody ever accused me of being too bright. I have 4 of the darn things. I'll never buy another new one again.
For decades Harley sold Bikes that needed to be repaired before they could be used. Harley was worshipped like Apple is now.
@@Foolish188 Yup, replacing their shitty paper gaskets or enjoy your friends being able to tell everywhere you've parked due to the oil spots it will leave. 🤨
Awesome ! I do love an support HD. I ride HD bikes & drive Ford trucks only. Both never let me dwn ..even under very rough conditions. The trucks are far stronger than any others!
After high school, I worked as a professional mechanic for about seven years (I'd graduated from a trade school where I'd excelled in auto mechanics.). A few years after high school, I bought a brand new Pontiac Firebird from a dealer nearby. Within a couple of months, the speedometer cable broke. I brought the car to the Pontiac dealer to have it repaired. They didn't have that particular cable and it had to be ordered. Then it was backordered. After over a month without a speedometer they told me it was in and that I should bring the car in to have the cable installed. I did so. Within four weeks the cable broke again. I took the card back to the Pontiac dealer and demanded that they fix it. They refused, saying that I must have done something to cause the cable to break. I insisted and the owner of the dealership and I got into a yelling match in the parking lot - 60-year-old versus 20-year-old. I lost, he threw me off the premises and had me trespassed. By this time, with the help of my father who'd co-signed the loan, I'd purchased my own business, a service station with an automotive repair shop. Pissed off at the Pontiac dealer I got on the phone to Pontiac Motor Company in Michigan and demanded to speak to the CEO. They kept turning me over to people who were not the CEO and I got angrier and angrier. I called every day for nearly a week and finally a fellow who came on the line who claimed to be the CEO. I then raised hell with him over the dealer's shoddy work and demanded that, given my qualifications, I be allowed to do my own warranty work on my car. He agreed. In those days, every dealer had an in-house credit card to do warranty work with. The service manager would hold the card. When an invoice for warranty work was done, the service manager would charge the warranty-paid portion of the work to that card. About ten days after my conversation with that fellow at Pontiac, I received my own warranty card in the mail. From that point on, until I sold that car, I did all the work on the car. Any parts I needed, I would order the parts over the phone from the Pontiac dealer who didn't like me, then show up and pay for the parts with the warranty credit card. Every time I walked in that dealership and he saw me buying parts with that card, the dealer would insist that I remain until he called Pontiac in Michigan and verified that the card was still legit. I would always walk out the door holding my card up for him to see while silently mouthing 'fuck you' to the guy. It felt good to teach that old prick a lesson..
Haaaaa! Love it!
Louis Rossmann has a big following for this. Let's support him on this.
Well how do you expect the FTC to enforce something like that if when they do they might not get those nice lobbying positions with big paychecks after they leave the FTC?
Pretty sure you got right to the root of it there.
Trump's FTC was anti consumer and pro business scam
@@stephenjacks8196 This didn't begin under Trump by a long shot.
and it definitely won't end under Biden (may get worse)
The FTC can leave itself? Your comment is bringing up all kinds of fun thought experiments in my mind 😄
We bought our washing machine at Lowe's. When they couldn't get warranty parts or repair in a timely manner, they simply gave us a new one. We'll buy our next one there too.
Maybe buy from someone else that can offer warranty and parts and repairs instead of replacing it with more junk that will break in a year or so.
Should work with @LouisRossmann. He is HUGE in the right-to-repair field out of NYC. He's been going around public hearings.
I smell some 13¢ class action checks in my future.
How disappointingly true.
Without enforcement, it is of no effect.
This is big problem in the medical industry. I have had manufacturers refuse to sell me a part as simple as a knob They insist that only their tech can do this. This is well after the end of warranty by the way. I know hospitals that had to pay to fly in repair techs for the simplest of repairs. Ironically if you take out a service contact with them they will send you the same part no problem.
That's strange at the hospital I work at the carts that nurses use to roam the floors with medications and past meds and do charting are serviced by the IT Help desk with parts delivered with return labels for any parts we have to replace. Medical equipment however is tended to by the vendors and the nursing staff have access to those vendor contacts when work is needed although I think most issues get swept by periodic checks by the vendors themselves.
@@IanBPPK with large service contracts. One of many reasons our medical costs are out of control.
You go into a store and purchase software that comes in a shrink wrapped box. Take it home and open it and the terms and conditions on the inside say that you only have a license to use the software. Do you own the software or do you only have a license to use it? It often says if you don't agree to the terms take it back to the store for a refund, but the store will refuse to take it back because it has been opened.
no one has litigated this. this may be one reason Microsoft quit making new operating systems. sooner or later someone would have litigated it given how.. functional Microsoft Operating systems are at launch. Note- the prior sentence may contain sarcasm. i do not accept any liability for explosive failure of sarcasm detectors.
There are some major problems with this paradigm. When machinery was analog, nobody seriously questioned the users right to work on their own equipment, even if all or part of it was patented. But computerize it, and suddenly you have to go to the manufacturer for repairs at their set non negotiable monopoly charges, which is against public policy in a free market economy. In effect, even though you bought it, you don't really own it, you buy it in its entirety but have to do the equivalent of renting it. Its like corporate socialism.
Moreover, patents have a shelf life of 20 years, after which they go into the public domain. Copyrights by comparison, go for a hundred years. Copyrights are meant for literary, musical, artistic or like expression. But software code writers and even circuitboard designers will copyright their work, in effect creating a hundred year patent, clearly an abusive interpretation of intellectual property.
So don't sympathize with the crocodile tears of the equipment suppliers. Save it for Joe Lunchpail working stiffs and family farmers that just want to buy, OWN, and repair their equipment, and not be high tech serfs on a medieval lord's corporate estate.
@@jacqueslefave4296 Just a heads up, the "family farm" no longer exists and has not for at least a couple of generations. If you are a successful farmer today you are a multimillionaire.
@@johnnylightning1491 I know families that have farms, and although they may have it in S corporations, LLC's, or family trusts, they may have large valued holdings, it is generally not very liquid, i.e, they could not write a large check for something frivolous, most of the money is tied up in land, expensive equipment such as combines, grain solos, and inventory such as fertilizers, livestock and such, it is a risky venture that depends on conditions that are beyond their control, such as the weather and fickle commodity markets. Before Trump had the death tax repealed, they often had to mortgage the farm to pay the taxes, and sometimes the mortgage was barely paid off before the next family head died and the process started again. No wonder so many threw in the towel, sold out to a corporation and moved to the city. Corporations don't die so they don't have to pay death taxes.😬
Earlier you could buy a software and if you did not need ít anymore you could sell the copy to someone else. The company have talked of licenses etc,. but that was just legal nonsense. Now everything is tied to some cloud account and when you go to store you seldom even buy a copy, you get a card with a number and you download the software. There is no copy that you could sell and even then it would be tied to your cloud account.
Also because of the could connection the company can essentially disable the software at any time. I had Eye-Fi SD-cards that I used to transfer images from my camera to my phone, a completely local operation. Yet they were somehow tied to cloud and were disabled when the company ended the service. Fortunately I managed to get a third party app to do the same.
This is why any time I purchase a device that has a "Warranty void if removed or broken" type of seal, I remove it from the device, since it's illegal in the US. Then I ask them, "How much money do you want to waste on your VERY expensive lawyers in small claims court proving that I damaged it by breaking this seal?" if they try to void my warranty. It's worked EVERY time.
I once got denied warranty coverage for a pair of LG bluetooth headphones because of "abuse". My abuse was normal daily use on my commute to work by bicycle. I could have probably tried to fight it, but instead I just warn people off buying LG products everywhere I can and will until the end of my time on this Earth.
I guess law does not matter, only lobbies for the big companies, not the people.
The US is so corrupt that it has become one of the American stereotypes here in Europe
I bought 2 USB Xbox 360 controllers on ebay once (likely knockoffs). One of them arrived with a broken button inside. I opened it up and took some pictures told the seller that there was no need to send it back told them how much it would cost me to fix it myself and they gave me a partial refund. And this was a Chinese seller. Kind of lucky. They really like those positive feedbacks.
I once did a service on a cement mixer with a Deutz V-8 air cooled diesel. A week or so later it came back running poorly and the problem was diagnosed as a broken lifter and I eventually found a part of an internal oil filter gasket in the oil galley feeding the camshaft. I took pictures and recovered the gasket piece and sent them to Fleetguard, a large manufacturer of heavy duty equipment filters. They, to their credit, and with no threats whatsoever, covered the repair of that engine.
I think we might also need to talk about e-commerce, specifically Amazon. Too often the response from manufacturers is "sorry we can't honor your warranty, you didn't purchase from an authorized seller". Very convenient excuse.
Cameras and video equipment.
When we bought machines, some of which cost over $500,000, we specified in the purchase contract that parts manuals, service manuals, electrical schematics and hydraulic schematics were to be included. The contracts were usually written for one third with the order, the second third paid when it shipped and the third installment once it was in operation. They didn't get the third payment until all of the manuals and schematics were there. There was a sweeper that the company bought and didn't make the third payment until over a year later because the manufacturer refused to supply the information. They were even foolish enough to go to court to try to get paid without supplying the information.
Thanks for taking on this issue Steve
Thanks for bringing attention to the topic
If you're entitled to court and attorney fees if you win, by law, how can a judge not award that?
Exactly. The company decided to force you to take them to court, they had a good idea what the costs would be, they need to pay. The actual damages awarded should not matter. Need to sue the judge for not doing his job, but can't.
You know, I really learn a lot by watching your videos and truly enjoy them, but have to tell you that your "shower thoughts" at the end really finish it off!
Magnasum-Moss was a saving grace for me. 2016 F150 with bad EPAS. Was in the shop a dozen times, and because I put 33,000 miles on in a year, blew through Lemon Law miles period before I reached the 3 repairs/30 days out of service in order to file. With 56,000 miles, nearing the 60K warranty limit, and issues still unresolved, I sued, I won, used the money to equal the inequity on the truck and traded it in on one I special ordered to replace it.
Make sure you keep all records of repairs, all receipts, everything.
They can kick rocks. I've been fixing my stuff for years. and will continue to do so.
Yeah, it's more than someone telling you not to do it. Sometimes it requires a scan tool that's not available on the market... at all. Or machines disabling themselves because they need to be synched with propriety software.
Yeah, Samsung and Apple will prevent your device from working even if you use official parts. Samsung does it subtly by making the camera glitch out. Apple just says FU
Imagine your under warranty, or 3 year old 2500$(or more) refrigerator breaks down and they tell you they can schedule you two months out. How do you function out of a cooler, with a family, for 2 months? A real hardship that many people go through.
Worse is an RV. Schedule for the dealer to look at it in 3 months for "diagnosis". Then wait 3 more months for it to be scheduled into the repair shop. Steve has an "opinion" about this. Fun to watch as long as you are not a current victim.
@@jackb1803 The worst is a farm tractor. Your tractor breaks down and the dealer can fix it in two months. However, you need to harvest all your crops within a week or so or else all your income for the entire year literally decays into worthlessness in your fields.
And this of course increases average food prices because you aren’t the only one who this happened to, and the supply of food is lowered.
They still play warranty games. Example: our brand new 5500 watt, $900 300# gasoline generator .. brand new and failed immediately. Under warranty for two years but cannot take back to the retailer for replacement but must ship to manufacturer and then wait on them diddling whether they get it repaired or replaced in an undefined amount of time. Yeah .. ship 300# and wait meanwhile without the availability should it's need arise during a power outage. Great stuff eh?
Right to repair has been a real issue in tech for as long as i've been working in the field. I started as a computer repair tech back in the mid 80's, and schematics were not available if you weren't an authorized dealer. Luckily, the computers back then were simple enough that you really didn't need the schematics a lot of times, but it was not fun if you were an independent shop. I worked at an authorized shop, and occasionally an independent would bring in a machine they could not fix and basically pay us to fix it, so that they would not lose face with their customers. Fun times.
i was in the printing business. bought new equipment (from a national company) from a local dealer, which closed shortly after. when i called for warranty service i was told i would have to pay $225.00 for "travel time" from another dealer.the repairman said he would have to go back to get parts. you guessed it! i would have to pay travel time again! call to home office did get me satisfaction from a very nice woman. i feel someone else on that call would have been different outcome.
So what about Apple? Replace a battery in a new device with an Apple battery from another same Apple device and it will refuse to recognize it until an Apple approved repair facility certifies the repair (which they refuse to do). Who's gonna sue them?
Part of Apple's argument is that it helps prevent stolen phones from being parted out and ensures that the customer knows that the battery is not brand new, and to the first, I want proof that that's an ubiquitous problem and the second one could be a one time disclaimer.
@@IanBPPK if apple would drop their new phone price to $50 nobody would want to steal and part them out
@@martyk1156 perhaps. I'm not staying their stance as fact, just citing what their mouthpieces have reverberated when the questions began to arise.
Why would you do that? Just buy a new off brand battery from ifixit. I’ve been replacing iPhone batteries forever and never a problem except sometimes a bad replacement battery.
@@rapid13 The newer iPhones have to get the new battery paired with the phone or they won't work. Not the same as the older models.
Glad to see you getting behind this.
Love all this info, so many times we are ignorant of the effect of standing law. Great public service.
This isn't 100% related but I like when you buy something in a package that is destroyed during opening, then find out that returns must be in original packaging.
I had a Eagle Talon and the transmission blew and the warranty company (GE) refused to cover it. The service person at the dealership told me to file it in small claims because it should be covered. I did file it and a attorney for GE called me from Colorado and paid me over the phone.
Back in the older days when I was working on television and stereo both of these items had a printout of all the parts inside the panels of the TV and stereo when you wanted to fix it yourself. But today you don't see that inside of the stereo or a TV.
Hell you can't even buy their parts or any schematics. They should be responsible for removing all electronic waste of theirs that ends up in our landfills and see how quick they quit the BS and bend over backwards to let us keep their products out of the landfill.
Thank you for this. I posted in Louis Rossmann's discord. He's a huge right to repair advocate
I really enjoy your clarity and content. Thank you for your service
This is depressing because we all know that NOTHING is ever going to be done about this!
I chuckle at the aftermarket oil filter because I owned a 1988 Hyundai Excel GS and when I went to change me oil I could not fit my hand or an oil filter wrench to take the filter off. I took it to.a quick change place who pierced the filter with a screwdriver to remove it and replaced it with a half height oil filter. Problem solved?
Yes, but a half height filter might provide inadequate filtering. Or, it will clog sooner.
Worthy flag to raise. Thanks for this.
As an auto technician I find this useful and great information to have and share with customers.
This is why I watch Steve's videos. Excellent!!!
Are you going to join hands with Louis Rossmann on Right to Repair now?
Louis Rossmann has a computer repair RUclips channel and he is on a Right to Repair crusade.
Great! About time.
Louis has a great channel and covers right to repair often.
I have complained to the ftc more than once and no one ever does sh!! Thanks for the video!
The problem I hve seen is when one company purchases another then refuses to honor the original warranty .... the name remained the same but the new company is now producing products somewhere else and states that parts for what you bought are no longer available so the warranty is no longer valid.
Worse case, a company executes a "Strategic Bankruptcy" to avoid excessive warranty claims on defective products.
the way to get around the bmw car is to take it to a non bmw dealer, as here in nz we are covered by the consumers guarantee act, which means we have to contact the dealer and give them the chance to fix it, but if they dont we can use another dealer and send them the bill, the fines to companies that try to get out can be in the 100 thousands of dollars
That's why anytime a salesman tries to sell me on a warranty, I tell them to shut-tf up and stop lying to me. I've had several warranties not honored, big and small.
I've been fixing (or trying to fix) stuff that broke in my parents home and now my home since I was a kid. Usually it was something simple that I could figure out, but now a lot of things are a bit more complicated and difficult to get the parts. However, I have repaired a broken tv by getting a part from a different broken tv (same make and model) for a fraction of the price of getting a whole new one. Spent roughly $1000 total for the 2 tvs, which would have ended up costing over $4000.
Steve, I was in the auto repair business for many years, long ago I was told that if the manufacturer required that their part ( filters, oil, etc) were required, they had to supply them free of charge. I have never come across the issue, but it just doesn't sound right.
I'm glad you're giving attention to the right-to-repair subject. It is very important.
In automotive, thanks to efforts in the past, we now have a lemon law, schematics are available, oil filters and other parts are available from 3rd-party suppliers. But at consumer electronics manufacturers are still allowed to screw with us. Printers will only print when OEM cartridges are fitted, which contain OEM ink. Imagine if your car would limit itself to max 15mph if you would install a 3rd-party oil filter! Or worse: that for example Ford would make cars that have that genuine-oil-filter-protection built-in and that Ford would restrict their oil-filter supplier to sell that genuine Ford oil filter only to Ford, so nobody would be able to even get hold of a Ford oil filter, to be able to change it by themselves. So your only choice would be: go to the Ford dealer, or, have a car that goes 15mph max.
Well, Apple already does this: replacement chips for modern iPhones are unobtainable. For example, the chip that charges the battery. Same function as needed in all smartphones, no exception. But Apple changed it a bit to make it unique to Apple. And Apple made sure that no one but Apple can buy that chip from the chip manufacturer. So you have no other choice than bringing that iPhone to an Apple Store, in order to have it fixed, IF they can fix it. (they won't fix older models; you're supposed to buy new). If they can fix it, you'll pay premium price and your iphone's memory will be wiped when you get it back. All the while an independent repair shop will be able to replace that chip professionally without wiping your data. If they would be able to get a hold of such a chip. Or any other part.
And what about farm equipment? Harvesters that quit working mid-harvest, because a sensor stops working and farmers have to wait for an authorized repair facility to come out and replace it. Because the manufacturer made sure that it cannot be replaced by the farmer himself. I get it. There's safety and emissions regulations and the manufacturer is probably liable if something happens in these areas. But at least give the farmers the option to assume liability, apply a temporary fix, and finish the harvest, instead of letting them wait and watch their crop wither away.
So, at cars, we can have our windscreen fixed by any car glass company. But at iPhones, if the screen gets damaged, your only choice will be the Apple store. And you might think: this won't affect me, I'm using an Android phone. Well... Samsung is copying Apple's 'innovations'. Years ago, the battery was a user-replaceable item. Well, not anymore, thanks to Apple.
If we don't do anything, all of the customer electronics will follow this direction. And the automotive industry is trying as well: on select cars, the oil dipstick has been replaced by electronics and there are brands that even chipped their starter battery so only OEM batteries will work. So, replace your battery by yourself and a few days later you won't be able to start your car. Nice job, BMW.
And electric cars... They all contain a powerful battery and a heavy-duty inverter that is perfectly able to generate 120V, 240V AC and even 3-phase, but none offer it as an option. Would be very handy on camping trips, for work outdoors or in case of grid failure. But even if you would have the skillset that would enable you to add that by yourself safely, then they'll probably punish you by remotely disable features like fast-charge, driving assists and possibly even the ability to drive altogether.
I bought a 12 volt water pump at a local Tractor supply, 3 months later, it stops working, I go to the store, and want to exchange it , for a replacement, the store manager,,,,, why the manager has to get involved with exchanging a $130. item, i have no idea, The women says its a "limited warranty" I said limited to what ....all it should do is pump water.... and it no longer does ,,,,she eventually exchanged it , but what nonsense .
Highly recommend Louis Rossman videos on right to repair.
I was going to make a snarky comment about the administration in power when these issues were presented to the FTC, but I'll let someone else do that. Keep the good stuff coming Steve.
Steve, here is something you might find interesting with regard to factory warranties.
On a car warranty, like Ford (I used to work for a Ford Dealership). They get very clever in the small print. They state; "if the failure of a covered repair is caused by the failure of a non-covered part, then the entire repair under warranty is void.
Here is a case where I was able to get a customer about two grand back concerning a warranty repair.
The owner of the dealership used to have different things that he wanted to try out, so he would put me on these projects. One of these was having me call service customers and follow up on our warranty and non-warranty repairs.
One day, I called up a customer and we ended up shooting the breeze. He was telling me about when he had to have his engine completely rebuilt and even though he had purchased a Ford Red Carpet warranty, he was made to pay the bill.
This guy had left a service plaza north of West Palm Beach and soon after getting up to highway speed, his engine suddenly quit. He was towed to a very small dealer by Lake Okeechobee. For the reason, mentioned above, they discovered that a lower hose had broken, the oil leaked out and the engine suddenly seized up. I will add that this guy was a pilot so he was used to paying attention to sounds, vibrations and instruments.
I told him, that I was going to do some research and call him back tomorrow. I had been shown the warranty service manual and they had me read over it as a reference. I had remembered that part and something else. There was an "*" with a footnote that said "except in Florida" (This was a service manual for the SE United States.
To regress, during the 70's, people would come down to S. Florida from NY and NJ. They would open up a store. One that comes to mind was an appliance store by the name of Kennedy and Cohen. Their method of operation was to sell an appliance at a low cost and then talk the customer into an extended ten year warranty at what appeared to be an excellent deal. It was like, no out of pocket costs. After a few years, warranty claims started coming in. Someone's refrigerator would break down. When the service man would examine the fridge, he would inform the customer that the failure of the compressor was caused by the failure of the belt that was turning the compressor, since the "rubber band" that was turning the compressor was not covered by the warranty, then the compressor was not covered and the customer had to pay for both parts and labor.
This and other companies, with their many S. Florida locations, had endless complaints coming in to Tallahassee. In a very rare move, the state legislature made this practice illegal. Under state law, they did not have to cover the cost of the rubber band, but they did have to cover the part that died and was covered by the extended warranty.
The next day, I called our customer back and explained this to him. He verified this with Tallahassee and then sent a certified letter of complaint to Ford's warranty department in Dearborn MI. A couple of days later, he was called by the secretary to the head of Ford warranty dept. (which I believe, is part of Ford Financial Services).
The next day, he received a check by FedEx, in full compensation for his engine repairs.
Here is where the teeth of the law come into play. Extended warranties are sold by the finance department of a dealer. This department must be licensed by the state to write finance contracts and to sell extended warranties. Because of this, the State of Florida has the authority to suspend the writing of all extended warranties from Ford, in the State of Florida. Florida regulates the sale of insurance policies within the state and an extended warranty is considered to be ab insurance policy.
Just a note to people who live in Florida. NEVER buy an extended warranty from an out of state company. If they don't cover the terms of the warranty, you have little to no practical recourse. Buy from a dealership's finance department and you hold a lot of power. You can see from Steve's video why this is so important!
Wow, this episode was full of awesome info!!! Thanx!!!
I've used Costco to refill my HP printer ink cartridges for years in the same printer. After a recent "update", the recently refilled WORKING cartridge won't work now. I had to toss it & spend $47 on a new one.
I JUST had the EXACT same problem with my HP laser printer-- updated and then didn't work due to my generic 1/3-the-price-but-just-as-good cartridges. I was able to find someone online who had an older previous update file, downloaded it, installed it, set the printer to not do auto updates, and boom, it works again! Now I have to hope this printer works a long time or else I'll have to figure out which brand of printer besides hp will allow the user to use generic cartridges.
@@HandsIntoHistory That's an excellent work around! I'm not sure I could pull that off.
@@probuilder961 Find a friend or family member who is good with tech. I did have to do a bit of searching to find the older update file, but it is possible. My laser printer is still fairly young, and I not only have a whole set of generic cartridges still at least half full in it, I also have another full set sitting on the shelf. No way was I going to waste them, lol.
Yes, please stay up on Right to Repair. This is a big issue, and we appreciate hearing about it.
Question, Apple prevents supplies from making parts available to be used by independent repair shops. Is that a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act?
"If you don't want us switching to an alternate supplier, you won't make this part available."
It's absurd to me that judges don't grant attorney's fees even when entitled by statute. Even if the cost of litigation far exceeded the matter of contention it seems completely perverse to me that a judge would shield the defendant when they knew the risks.
What about the products that include a registration card. They say that you can't get the warranty UNLESS you fill out the registration card within a certain number of days...Is that legal? I see that all the time.
Louis Rossman has a go fund me for a direct ballot initiative for right to repair. If you're reading this and care about right to repair you should check out his channel. He has a pretty solid idea of right to repair that I agree with.
I recall my Father talking about taking the car to the dealer once and getting flak because it didn't have a Mopar oil filter. This was way back in the mid 1970s though.
Just waiting for Louis to enter this comments section 😄👍
Just pm'd Louis about this
Kia/Hyundai have tried that stuff as late as like 2013 with the oil filters. Voiding engine warranty on an already problematic engine. What most people dont realize either is that there are only so many manufacturers of products. Some brands may use a slightly different material or design, but they 90% are reboxed from a certain manufacturer. When I worked at Napa for years, it would be funny when we'd get a new order of electronics like say map sensors and the 1 part # would literally have scratched out oe part #s on the whole lot. Then the next part # would be made by say Delphi. Although we sold the Delphi line too but was always more expensive. So just like many things we have a bunch of reboxing companies out there, so in no way should we be punished unless there is proof of failure do to an aftermarket product. Back to the oil and filters. Bob is the oil guy is a great website for consumer info. With many cut open filters to show how similar most are.
Circa 2007, the transmission failed on my 2003 Acura TL with nearly 90,000 miles. There was a known defect with some of the transmissions on that vehicle, but mine was outside the serial number range that was then covered by a service note and wty extension. This happened on a Friday night.
On Saturday, my dealer had a tow truck pick up the vehicle and tow it more than 40 mi to the dealership. By Monday afternoon, Acura had approved a wty replacement, the dealership supplied me with a loaner vehicle, and my car was repaired within a few days. Zero cost to me, just some inconvenience for a few days. That transmission lasted another 100k+ miles.
They never did manage to fix the problems with that model transmission and simply stopped using it. But I think honoring the wty on a vehicle with nearly 90k miles when the wty at purchase was 3yrs or 36k miles should be noted as a company with a commitment to excellence in quality and in customer satisfaction.
RUclipsr and mac book repairman Louis Rossman has started a nonprofit go fund me page to fight for the right to repair. they have already raised nearly half a mil. According to an article written by Duane Pozza and Roger Miksad in 2019 the Magnuson and Moss act was not drafted with digital devices in mind, and the FTC has struggled with understanding how best to apply it outside the motor industry. It is my opinion that should the right to repair act gain traction and passes legislature it would create precedent and clear the waters for the Mag and Moss act to be more effectively applied.
I am in the machine tool business. Our industry is overwhelmed with this practice. We will take a standard, commercially available part, like a bearing, modify it slightly and brand it an OEM part. It may be as simple as etching a line on the part. Use the original part and you just saved us big money. The price you pay for the machine has a large chunk dedicated to covering warranties. When our service tech calls in that he found after market parts, that $250k just shifted from the warranty column to the profit column. The entire warranty has now been voided because one part affects others and we can’t be sure their wasn’t “damage” due to that. Of course it’s a scam, but we’re undefeated in court so far. Read the print on the purchase agreement you’re signing
A common complaint of Louis Rossman is that big companies will pressure manufacturers not to sell the parts needed for device repair to anybody except the retailer of that device (example, Apple doesn't want parts for its products being sold to other companies). Would this qualify as an illegal trust under anti-trust law?
Dear Steve, love the topic. Touching on your oil filter/oil comment. The cost of a Ford oil filter and oil, when purchased from Amazon, is, in sum no different from like parts purchased at a major parts retailer then why not purchase the manufactures products and eliminate the issue altogether?
Equally important, i find that many dealers sell parts at a discount prices over the the internet which is another reason to make the purchase.
Lastly, with many parts being manufactured cheaply in China, I would gladly purchase a manufactured part(s) from the manufacture if for no other reason, for the quality control the engineering standards and quality controls the manufacture specifies.
Louis Rossman is a electronics repair business owner and RUclips advocate for Right to Repair who is currently running a fundraiser to get a direct ballot initiative regarding right to repair in Massachusetts. It would be wonderful if his campaign were to get more exposure from your channel Mr. Lehto
Glad to see this one. The swiss mfg of your watch is one of the big mfgs that limits parts so that no one but breitling can repair it. I repair watches and this is a huge deal. You might want to search for articles about right to repair pertaining to watches. For example Rolex will deem a watch as a fake if a customer puts on after market parts and either refuse to repair it or force a customer to replace to put rolex parts back on the watch at the customers expense. Breitling is the same way with regard to this.
I work for a company that makes lighting products and I have often wondered about this. Products with ~5-10 year warranties will eventually be discontinued and/or parts are unavailable/discontinued by their various suppliers and a customer needs to make a warranty claim. In some cases customers / electricians / problem solvers will troubleshoot and fix the product themself because getting service through us might be too slow or might not need their needs anymore (we might have to offer something of equivalent performance but different aesthetically as a replacement).
They will contact us saying they replaced x component with some off the shelf component they managed to find to make the light work and now they want us to cover their costs, or demand we honor the warranty after they modified the product.
From our end we have a few problems - we generally want defective products returned to us so analysis can be performed to figure out failure trends and to see if an installer caused the failure (drilled holes into a product and now its leaking. hmph). If we get a product back that has been modified - and/or no longer has its original components what should we do? I think we generally would deny a claim on an item like this. We need accurate test data to truly figure out whats wrong with our products and now what? Do we have to run sets of reliability tests or teardowns on some component someone picked up at an online parts supplier to see it it was the cause of the failure? Or that it likely wasnt? We have no manpower available to do that. Are we entitled to that test data or to say an unmodified product must come back to us before we will send a complete replacement?
Another issue we often run into is that these are (albeit simple) electrical devices that go through certification processes and extensive durability testing to ensure they will last for 5-10+ years of service. When someone subs in a component that works - there is no guarantee that its rated appropriately for its environment, or to withstand the electrical or physical conditions it might face installed on a bridge underpass. Maybe they swapped in a component that works but its now overpowering or underpowering the LEDs leading to the color changing or causing the LEDs to degrade much faster than we found in durability testing. Maybe they swapped in a component that isn't properly tested by the various governing bodies or us and now the light is a shock or falling hazard.
Seems like an odd situation - we sold a product - its warrantied for 10 years - 8 years into the warranty we maybe no longer have the ability to source any parts for it and our only option is to offer alternative products or refunds. If a customer repaired their fixture 9 years into the warranty and got it working - then it failed again and they bring it to us - what do we do?
It seems like we cant say fixing the product on your own voids the warranty but... we are basically doing that because of a multitude of reasons and situations that come up.
Steve, there is more to write to repair than just the legal ability to fix it yourself. There's also access to parts and access to information about how whatever it is you bought works.
Looking at just one example in the field of tractor repair which is issue because of the cost of towing one of these bad boys to the dealer. You do something as simple as replace the alternator you have to reprogram the onboard computer to work with that new alternative, if you can't do that unless you have access to the dealer's software and electronic toolbox. All of that software's denied access farmers who can easily swap an alternator any day of the week and twice on Sunday and to Independent repair shops like to house calls instead of a huge tow bill that the dealer would require.
Lewis Rossman in New York sites apples example where they will buy a certain ship from a chipmaker and contractually obligate them to sell that s*** only back to Apple, preventing any independent repair shops from flying them fixing Apple products.
None of the current warranty laws at the state or federal level cover these situations and mandate access to information, software and parts needed to fix modern technology.
Whats up Steve.. new listener and excited about the warranty act... with the chrysler powertrain warranty was a purchased addition that a lot of people have been denied.. i myself had an oil pump failure... had it towed to the recommended repair shop, where there deemed i neglected my engine with 80k miles... i told them it was the oil pump... after 800.00 in repair diagnosis... they said i needed a new engine.. i had the truck towed to my house... purchased the new oil pump from the dealership that said it needed an engine... and now the truck has 244k miles on it... how do i 1 get my money back feom the other repairs that would have been covered...
It goes substantially deeper than just to voiding warranties. Even after the warranty has expired, manufacturers employ strategies to prevent other repair shops from repairing their products so that they have a monopoly on the repair business. They put serialized devices into batteries so that the device will refuse to operate unless their certified technicians changed the battery. They make illicit agreements with part manufacturers to prevent critical parts from being available to private companies. They lobby federal, state, and local representatives to "protect their intellectual property" from "reverse engineering" even when the technology is so out-dated that "they cannot afford to support it any longer." If device owners cannot get the devices repaired, then their options are reduced to doing without the device or to purchasing a new device. Ecologically and politically, this is destructive, but financially this makes more sales and money.
Perfect case in point, I purchased a replacement distributor for my truck and taped across the distributor and cap was a seal stating 'Removal of this seal voids all warranty'. Well when replacing a distributor, you need to remove the cap from the assembly during instillation in order to assure the assembly, it's rotor button, and it's cap all remain positioned in correlation to the first cylinder of the engine being at compression 'TDC'...
So basically that manufacturer either A) intentions are to say the part is only covered under warranty if it remains uninstalled, B) has little to no understanding of how the parts they manufacture operate, which I would find even more unsettling, or C) expect you to just install in blind faith and hope your 1-in-4, 1-in-6, or 1-in-8 chances are good odds.
Needless to say, I promptly boxed it back up, returned it, and purchased a more reliable brand.
Manufacturers are not voiding warranties. that is a legal action and its not legal. What they are doing is "refusing to honor" warranties ie they are breaking the law. the problem is they can largely do this with impunity since most people don't have the resources to do something about it.
The burden is on the manufacturer to PROVE the abuse or repair is what caused the warranty repair.
This is also where using the right CREDIT CARD (for things smaller than a car) IE you dispute the charge and TAKE the money back from them by force.
I met an attorney who said he makes money suing people. He got $500,000 from Computer manufacturers that put "made in usa" and changing to "made in the usa with foreign and domestic parts."
Well.... This video explains, exactly why I had such trouble getting a lawyer, when I purchased NEW (not used), a FCA 2017 Dodge Journey, which I had to take back to Rick Hendrick CDJR (dealership) and other dealers, a total of FOURTEEN times, in the first year of ownership... I had a NWS meteorologist ask if MY OWN CAR was my rental car for this week....
Auto manufacturers and dealers are SO scummy....
Steve, we spoke about the EGR cooler that fails in the Ford 6.0 diesel and can destroy the engine. Ford has not re-engineered the part. A replacement part is available after-market and it was re-engineered not to fail. If you put the good after-market part in your Ford they will void any warranty on the truck, yet all they offer (at your expense) is the same defective part that failed in the first place. This is why you must have a right to repair when the OEM fails their customers so badly.
at one point someone wanted the feds to eliminate 2 regulations for every one they create. probably the regulations that require the response by the FTC were easy targets for regulations to cancel.
It's worse than you think, Steve. Buick offers free oil changes for new purchases, then claim the changes are only required at 6,000 miles. The owner's manual CLEARLY states the oil change cycle is 3,000 miles, but they insist the interval is 6,000 miles. When pressed, they complied with their own owner's manual, but it is clear they are trying to void there own warranties on purpose and with intent.
@Steven Lehto I remember that Cadillac required a Cadillac battery or they would void the warranty.
There was a court case ruled that sucn a requirement could exist if the parts and labor for such a requirement were provided free!
And, from what I recall, the company would have to prove that an aftermarket or generic part is inadequate compared to an OEM part.
Goes hand-in-hand with product protection plans hawked at retailers like Best Buy, Target and so on.
Not a surprise. The FTC never doesn't do anything about Big Tech's obvious non-competitive practices, despite they already being against the law either!
3:06 Here's how to "fix" the problem with those stickers: If a manufacturer puts those stickers on, the warranty has no expiration date, no exclusions, and repairs must be completed within 90 days at *no* cost (including shipping, handling, and postage) to the consumer. In other words: Forever responsible for fixing the product.
9:23 How to fix illegal exclusions: If even one is present, the warranty changes to the one above.