well, at 3.5, if your only aim is to win matches, then you can save 3rd shot drop for later .. however, you will get stuck at 3.5 and will never get to 4.0 if you will not learn and incorporate the 3rd shot drop in your game ...
This is incorrect. But not in the way you may think. Appreciate the comment as it helped me see the logical block that many players have in their advancement. Very helpful. Be well.
@@BestPickleballCoach i think shot selection is the key here .. if the opponent does no rush to the kitchen or too slow to advance to the kitchen when returning serve, a 3rd shot drive will keep him in the back court .. if he rushes to the kitchen, then a 3rd shot drop will keep him from attacking as he will then hit his 4th shot from below
Hi Tony, Thanks for the video. I’m a TPS member. I’m a little confused by your video. I’m under the impression that the 3rd shot objective is to overcome the serve team’s positional disadvantage, not to win the rally, far too risky; only to neutralize the court. Am I incorrect? If so, please clarify particularly if/when it comes to using a drive instead of a drop: 1) How does the third shot drive help overcome a positional disadvantage? 2) How do you know when you should you use a drive instead of a drop?
Hello David. It is a good question. The point of the two rallies being compared is not so much the shots. It is the court position. First one was a great third shot drop but their position allowed the return side to punch it past them. Second one the serve team just kept battling. Even though the shots weren’t “textbook” the serve team’s court position allowed them to keep the rally alive until the return team’s error. Hope this helps and glad to be able to coach you.
I play at about 3.0-3.5, and I find that at this level players don't employ the 3rd shot drop because it's too risky. We are MUCH more confident about our drives. If you hit a bad drop you're in big trouble because it's so easy to attack.
I think this is in combination with too much emphasis on getting to the kitchen. When serving, it's much better to hang back and be patient in getting up to the kitchen. Play the soft game patiently until you get to the kitchen and then put things away.
A third shot drop is still a good shot to have but understand that the shot does not have to exact at 3.0-3.5. You can hit it around your opponent's belly and be fine- just like in this gold medal match.
I would go a step further; The conventional 3rd shot... an arching ball that drops into the kitchen is problematic for 2 reasons. 1. Can be hard to hit, especially from deep or with pace on the ball-especially in any kind of wind, and 2. You are inviting a kitchen battle with someone who is already AT the kitchen. The better solution (haven't finished video yet so please excuse if I'm being redundant, is a 70-80% low drive that lands about knee to ankle level on your opponent. Preferably the player who is not established at the kitchen yet. A. They might not even get it back, and B. If they do, it will just be a reset that will allow you to move up and establish yourself at the kitchen...
Thanks Tony. I think I understand your point. Just to clarify when you say missed return of serves I think of a return of serve as a second shot. Did you mean missed fourth shots from the receiving team? Thanks, Larry
Hello Larry. Hope you are doing well. That is indeed the source of those gifted points. There are plenty out there. Just keep the ball in play on the serve side and voila - points fall out of the sky :). Be well young man
One thing that I noticed as I watch advanced and pros play (in person), is that majority of their drops are not "perfect". If anything, their strategy is to hit a good enough drop to gain some real estate by taking a step or two, then making an easier 5th drop or however many shots they need to get to the NVZ line. The problem with
I don't see these players executing the third shot drop properly. The purpose of a third shot drop is to get yourself to the "Kitchen" which is the strongest postion to be in. You can't advance if you don't get the ball into the kitchen on at least a bounce and when you do you need to take advantage and get to the kitchen quickly. I didn't see these players do that. So, all due respect I think you are inadvertently strawmanning the thrid shot drop strategy by using these players as an example; players that are not executing the third shot drop strategy properly. JMO
This becomes circular. I agree the 3rd shot focus is a strawman for the real takeaway: prioritize eliminating unforced errors between 3.5-3.99. Do that, however, AND add a properly executed 3rd shot and we are outside the bounds of this rating band. We are now in 4.0+ territory.
@@tylermartin122 Understood. I consider myself no more than a 3.0 player (6 months of play) but have used the 3rd shot drop very effectivly. When I get the shot into the kitchen and rush the kitchen the opponent often times pops the ball up for a put away.
Hello Duane. Welcome to the sport. It is good that you have dialed in your third shot. It is simply a question of priority: reducing gifted points having higher priority than a finetuned third. The third will be there when a player is ready to work on it. Appreciate you checking out the content and being a part of the community.
Feels like the overall point you make here is similar to other videos: shot selection always comes down to balancing your likelihood of executing a selected shot vs the opponents likelihood of attacking it. Going for a pro style shot is higher risk/lower margin for 3.5s and below than a "sorta" drop. This is unnecessary against opponents who cant attack a "sorta" ball consistently and is just gifting points away unnecessarily. However against pros the risk is worth it because the will put those waist level balls away consistently. I find myself constantly adjust my margin to not just the team but also the side of the player im targrting. If an opponent can attack a yellow ball consistenly with their forehand but not backhand ill target their backhand with more margin but then hit a riskier ball if im forced to go to their forehand for some reason.
I’m missing part of the metric. Of the five textbook drops, how many were win by the team serving? Of the 9 sort of drops, how many points were won by the serving team? Oh wait, since u said the points won, those all had to be won by the serving team. So the question is, how many sideouts (loss of a serve) were there? And how many occurred with a 3rd shot drop or a sort of drop? Nice video overall! Perhaps use graphics instead of writing on a white bd?
This is a good question but is beyond the scope of what we were trying to tease out in this video. We were looking at necessity of a textbook 3rd shot to score a point. Can certainly look at the concept big picture too: number of 3rd shots leading to points versus 3rd shots where no point is scored. Appreciate the comment.
Sure at 3.5, you can get away without the drop shot and just drive away. But it’s very hard to move up level without knowing how to do a good drop shot and what to do with a drop shot.
i always tell people who get nervous about playing in local tournaments, "Keep the ball in play"....90% of the points are from unforced errors i.e. balls hit long, into the net, wide etc....there aren't a lot of put-aways for points that people think are how you win these games...keep the ball in play and live another day, I always say....the 3rd shot drop is a key shot but i think it got waaaay overrated the past year or so and everybody forgot about their drives...I always say, you have to pick your spots when to use them and see how the other team reacts to the 2 types of returns...another waaay overlooked shot both offensively and defensively is the lob....used effectively, it can neutralize an aggressive team and can sneak a few points out of a match...thanks
Pre Covid, we had drills. They always taught to do the 3rd shot drop. Always. They never got into well that when the ball landed near the kitchen line and bounced high to attack that ball. We all needed to develop the third shot drop. But we needed more to keep common sense engaged while playing.
It appears that you are presenting statistics about rallies that were won by the serving team -- where points are scored. If, for example, the non-scoring rallies, where the serving teams loses the rally, had a high percentage of 3rd shot drop attempts, that would bolster your argument. On the other hand, if the non-scoring rallies had a high percentage of drives it would weaken your argument. Please consider remaking this video including the non-scoring rallies. Also, what about "3rd shot drive / 5th shot drop", which is becoming more common among the pros?
well, at 3.5, if your only aim is to win matches, then you can save 3rd shot drop for later .. however, you will get stuck at 3.5 and will never get to 4.0 if you will not learn and incorporate the 3rd shot drop in your game ...
This is incorrect. But not in the way you may think. Appreciate the comment as it helped me see the logical block that many players have in their advancement. Very helpful. Be well.
@@BestPickleballCoach i think shot selection is the key here .. if the opponent does no rush to the kitchen or too slow to advance to the kitchen when returning serve, a 3rd shot drive will keep him in the back court .. if he rushes to the kitchen, then a 3rd shot drop will keep him from attacking as he will then hit his 4th shot from below
Traditional is going away but still has its place, new paddles and younger players are changing the game, thanks for keeping up!
Pleasure
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the video. I’m a TPS member. I’m a little confused by your video. I’m under the impression that the 3rd shot objective is to overcome the serve team’s positional disadvantage, not to win the rally, far too risky; only to neutralize the court. Am I incorrect?
If so, please clarify particularly if/when it comes to using a drive instead of a drop:
1) How does the third shot drive help overcome a positional disadvantage?
2) How do you know when you should you use a drive instead of a drop?
Hello David. It is a good question. The point of the two rallies being compared is not so much the shots. It is the court position. First one was a great third shot drop but their position allowed the return side to punch it past them. Second one the serve team just kept battling. Even though the shots weren’t “textbook” the serve team’s court position allowed them to keep the rally alive until the return team’s error. Hope this helps and glad to be able to coach you.
Great food for thought! Thanks Big T!🤠
My pleasure Double T
I play at about 3.0-3.5, and I find that at this level players don't employ the 3rd shot drop because it's too risky. We are MUCH more confident about our drives. If you hit a bad drop you're in big trouble because it's so easy to attack.
I think this is in combination with too much emphasis on getting to the kitchen. When serving, it's much better to hang back and be patient in getting up to the kitchen. Play the soft game patiently until you get to the kitchen and then put things away.
A third shot drop is still a good shot to have but understand that the shot does not have to exact at 3.0-3.5. You can hit it around your opponent's belly and be fine- just like in this gold medal match.
Agree that patience is key. Thanks for the comment.
@@elvnprince yes, perfectly said.
I would go a step further; The conventional 3rd shot... an arching ball that drops into the kitchen is problematic for 2 reasons. 1. Can be hard to hit, especially from deep or with pace on the ball-especially in any kind of wind, and 2. You are inviting a kitchen battle with someone who is already AT the kitchen. The better solution (haven't finished video yet so please excuse if I'm being redundant, is a 70-80% low drive that lands about knee to ankle level on your opponent. Preferably the player who is not established at the kitchen yet. A. They might not even get it back, and B. If they do, it will just be a reset that will allow you to move up and establish yourself at the kitchen...
Appreciate the comment
Thanks Tony. I think I understand your point. Just to clarify when you say missed return of serves I think of a return of serve as a second shot. Did you mean missed fourth shots from the receiving team? Thanks, Larry
Hello Larry. Hope you are doing well. That is indeed the source of those gifted points. There are plenty out there. Just keep the ball in play on the serve side and voila - points fall out of the sky :). Be well young man
One thing that I noticed as I watch advanced and pros play (in person), is that majority of their drops are not "perfect". If anything, their strategy is to hit a good enough drop to gain some real estate by taking a step or two, then making an easier 5th drop or however many shots they need to get to the NVZ line. The problem with
Spot on.
I don't see these players executing the third shot drop properly. The purpose of a third shot drop is to get yourself to the "Kitchen" which is the strongest postion to be in. You can't advance if you don't get the ball into the kitchen on at least a bounce and when you do you need to take advantage and get to the kitchen quickly. I didn't see these players do that. So, all due respect I think you are inadvertently strawmanning the thrid shot drop strategy by using these players as an example; players that are not executing the third shot drop strategy properly. JMO
This becomes circular. I agree the 3rd shot focus is a strawman for the real takeaway: prioritize eliminating unforced errors between 3.5-3.99. Do that, however, AND add a properly executed 3rd shot and we are outside the bounds of this rating band. We are now in 4.0+ territory.
@@tylermartin122 Understood. I consider myself no more than a 3.0 player (6 months of play) but have used the 3rd shot drop very effectivly. When I get the shot into the kitchen and rush the kitchen the opponent often times pops the ball up for a put away.
Hello Duane. Welcome to the sport. It is good that you have dialed in your third shot. It is simply a question of priority: reducing gifted points having higher priority than a finetuned third. The third will be there when a player is ready to work on it. Appreciate you checking out the content and being a part of the community.
100%. Appreciate it Tyler.
Feels like the overall point you make here is similar to other videos: shot selection always comes down to balancing your likelihood of executing a selected shot vs the opponents likelihood of attacking it. Going for a pro style shot is higher risk/lower margin for 3.5s and below than a "sorta" drop. This is unnecessary against opponents who cant attack a "sorta" ball consistently and is just gifting points away unnecessarily. However against pros the risk is worth it because the will put those waist level balls away consistently. I find myself constantly adjust my margin to not just the team but also the side of the player im targrting. If an opponent can attack a yellow ball consistenly with their forehand but not backhand ill target their backhand with more margin but then hit a riskier ball if im forced to go to their forehand for some reason.
Hello Michael. Also consider your court position on the various shots. Appreciate the thoughtful comment.
I’m missing part of the metric. Of the five textbook drops, how many were win by the team serving? Of the 9 sort of drops, how many points were won by the serving team? Oh wait, since u said the points won, those all had to be won by the serving team. So the question is, how many sideouts (loss of a serve) were there? And how many occurred with a 3rd shot drop or a sort of drop? Nice video overall! Perhaps use graphics instead of writing on a white bd?
This is a good question but is beyond the scope of what we were trying to tease out in this video. We were looking at necessity of a textbook 3rd shot to score a point. Can certainly look at the concept big picture too: number of 3rd shots leading to points versus 3rd shots where no point is scored. Appreciate the comment.
Sure at 3.5, you can get away without the drop shot and just drive away. But it’s very hard to move up level without knowing how to do a good drop shot and what to do with a drop shot.
Agree that the higher your level the more reliable your third shot drop needs to be. But at 3.5, even highest level ... lots of latitude.
Would love to see you do the same math review on 5.0 match!@@BestPickleballCoach
@@markhindman9005 I would expect around 90% of the points scored to involve a third shot drop of some sort.
i always tell people who get nervous about playing in local tournaments, "Keep the ball in play"....90% of the points are from unforced errors i.e. balls hit long, into the net, wide etc....there aren't a lot of put-aways for points that people think are how you win these games...keep the ball in play and live another day, I always say....the 3rd shot drop is a key shot but i think it got waaaay overrated the past year or so and everybody forgot about their drives...I always say, you have to pick your spots when to use them and see how the other team reacts to the 2 types of returns...another waaay overlooked shot both offensively and defensively is the lob....used effectively, it can neutralize an aggressive team and can sneak a few points out of a match...thanks
Pre Covid, we had drills. They always taught to do the 3rd shot drop. Always. They never got into well that when the ball landed near the kitchen line and bounced high to attack that ball. We all needed to develop the third shot drop. But we needed more to keep common sense engaged while playing.
Good stuff Brian - thanks for sharing.
Hello Ralph. Definitely room for more than just a drop. Keep expanding your understanding. Thanks for watching the video.
It appears that you are presenting statistics about rallies that were won by the serving team -- where points are scored. If, for example, the non-scoring rallies, where the serving teams loses the rally, had a high percentage of 3rd shot drop attempts, that would bolster your argument. On the other hand, if the non-scoring rallies had a high percentage of drives it would weaken your argument. Please consider remaking this video including the non-scoring rallies. Also, what about "3rd shot drive / 5th shot drop", which is becoming more common among the pros?
Good suggestions for other videos. Will put them in the idea hopper. Thank you.