I came across Mr.Michael Sandel's lectures here in youtube a couple of weeks ago and I got completely glued to them. I watch all his lectures one by one. I'm even thinking about changing my career and going into law. 😅👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ If Mr. Sandel reads it I want to say him a big "THANK YOU"!!! You're an extraordinary lecturer!
1:09:00 I have a feeling Adam Smith did a distinction just like Prof. Sandel made. Smith's work on fair competition free market was related to moral and not economics.
"The predominant liberal approach of celebrating individual rights and driving discussion of moral values and personal responsibility to the fringes of our politics and away from the public sphere will ultimately play into the hands of those who shore up our borders and harder the distinction between insiders and outsiders and the promise of politics to take back our culture and take back our country." And to think he wrote this 1996... just wow!
The conclusion is awesome!!!! One friend taught me that altruism is a magic good - you take some out and when you look again you have more of it: helping people is like taking gold from a safe and giving it away ... and when you look at the safe, there's now more gold than there was before. That makes the debate about refugees in Europe much more complicated - and it's probably complicated there because market thinking have eroded some of their moral sentiments.
This may sound ironic, but altruism is evil. I am religious myself, but hear me out. Doing something YOU deem good without regard of what it takes, should be considered evil. Socialists are willing to take someone’s freedom, money or whatever in the name of good. That, in my opinion, is evil.
I think we are forgetting that the fine is intended to be a deterrent from bad behavior, not an acceptable fee for the infraction. Thereby a fine is different than a fee.
52:00 Concerning a township's democratic right to choose: I'm for upholding a democratic specific locations norm in most cases. Altho if the national norm is such, then is this township suggesting they are not part of the nation? Or the national ideals do not apply to them? Can each location that has an obligation choose to meet the obligation of their own choosing, as long as the rest of the nation says nothing or agrees with the alternative action taken? This may take more time or create a longer conversation altho this may or more likely would bring about a better action, which is the ultimate goal in the first place. And since my smart phone is so smart we could all have a conversation about an idea and up vote or up opinion the best ideas. And maybe pay those individuals for their excellent insight. And if it turns out even better than expected, pay even more to the individual.
Civility: Guidelines that govern market values inherent to human life. Social attitude norms of a fabric of Society i.e Civic duty on Cause and effect. The very essence of DEMOCRACY . Thank you Michael Sandel.
The refugee is an interesting example. Just as we are unsure that each refugee is beneficial, the same can be said for the society. As an example, if there are known biases, in that certain area, it might be as detrimental.
I think the Swiss refugee case helps to put the issue of moral obligation in focus. In the original case, the Swiss Government created an equal obligation on everyone/town to provide direct support to the refugees by accepting the refugees into their town. The fine is designed to penalise those who do not fulfil this obligation. Paying the fine by the effluent town does not eliminate their social obligations. So the town was still in the wrong even after they have paid the fine. However, if the Swiss Government has created a different obligation, then the judgement would differ. Suppose the Swiss Government created an equal obligation for everyone/town to provide resource required to help the refugees, either by directly accepting the allocated number of refugees, or by monetary contribution equal to the fine in the original case so that the government can use the money to acquire the resource required for supporting the refugees via commercial means, then it is not immoral for the effluent town to choose to pay money over taking in the refugees because they would have fulfilled their social obligations either way. So my conclusion is that the key question is the nature of the obligation, and whether it is fulfilled. Similar in the double parking case, the delivery driver clearly violated the city's parking regulation. Paying the fine does not make double parking morally right. However, if the city created a rule that allow double parking, provided you compensate the city/people that you have inconvenienced, then there is not a moral violation. Again, the core issue is what obligation was created, an obligation not to double park at all or an obligation to compensate for the inconvenience caused by double parking. The same goes with emission trading.
around 1:00:00 That guy knows he's talking about the EU, right? I mean, going to Poland isn't exactly going to the third world. If, in the EU, the payment is enough so the country can improve their infrastructure and make the refugees more productive - similar to Olympic games. Now, a country can offer to pay and another country can refuse. I'm usually against market decisions but in thinking about the EU bureaucracy perhaps that can be, if well done, a good thing. Here in Brazil we privatized a lot of things but in most privatizations the rules were good and included the demand for the company to deliver the services to places they would loose money since they were getting also highly profitable places. There's one aspect that is important: the refugees opinion.
All scenarios should be rejected for the same principal reason: Exempting individual citizens from equal treatment under the law (either by providing monetary incentives to be law-abiding or by letting them buy preferential access/treatment within the justice system) ultimately undermines the concept of fairness, which is simultaneously the Raison d'être and the primary legitimization of the rule of law in a secular democratic state. This objection can easily be argued for on purely deontological, purely utilitarian and/or purely virtue ethical grounds.
Yes but in the case of double parking you are preventing with your law companies from doing what they are supposed to do so maybe your law has something wrong.
@@koutoubyavision4738That might be the case, but that's not the topic being discussed. With that argument you would leave everybody to distinguish between morally right laws that should be followed and morally wrong laws that shouldn't. That would undermine the whole concept of law and maybe even of a working society. The only situation in which maybe it's okay to break the law (by that I mean break it in a big way, not crossing the street although the traffic light is red) is out of protest to an unjust law (for example the Montgomery bus boycott). But that, at least the way I understood it, wasn't the argument made by those companies. They just thought of a fine as just another economic expense.
If providing a reasonable job for them and at the same time teaching them how to have a better life quality, that’s cost much less, for the government’s, and it’s good for countries,
The Finland ticketing system is reasonable going in both directions. So if your yearly income is low then the fine will still bite altho one will not have to sacrifice food or housing or a child to pay the fine. While on the other hand if one is fabulously wealthy and one receives a fine it is enough that the individual will feel a bit of pain which is rightly.
Because first step come from wrong way. Its so hard make to a lot of reason right or wrong. But in time everything can been knew about this . Currently we learn from experience. Thank you so much.
The 'morality' of the decision to pay other countries to take refugees (refugee burden trading) can be ascribed to moral agents. Nations (& companies) are not moral agents.
I had an idea to offer career criminals a scholarship to a community college of their choice, including a studio apartment paid for as long as the stay in college with a passing grade to be provided as the incentive. After they graduate they will be helped finding a job. Or even during college getting a part time job.
If you pay to the creminals to do not kill anyone, then sometimes you’ll paying them to kill someone, after the while, you paying them to do anything you asked for and they will be your employees
What about morality in the government? The city knows the delivery trucks have no other option but to double park. The moral thing to do would be to put sings up that say "No double parking 'except delivery trucks'". Instead of forcing them to break a law so they can keep making money of the same company's. The government's job is to serve the people, yet they look for every opportunity to take money from the people. They pay themselves high wages and allow themselves perks like insider trading while the people watch them get rich and they are morally ok with it?
One of the crimes, which is unbelievable business , which they send you a letter with the police letter head , and asking you to pay for your, speed limits, penalty, and directed you to the internet sight, to paying your penalty, and most people’s, will pay , this happens to me recently, and I decided to go to courts instead.
Giving blood is helping the others, and should be donated, not selling blood, and giving blood is good for our body’s and we can do it at least once a month
Universal Basic Income gives people HOPE and the understanding that their government/community cares whether they starve or not. UBI will allow the breathing space for people to look around for ways in which they can improve their lives and begin to find ways to contribute to society that will afford them a measure of self-worth. The more people who have this freedom and self-worth, the greater benefit to our society as a whole.
Hi , sir , even if you pay more than 1000 dollars, to criminals, to do not kill the others, to show that, the high crime rate is lower than the other states, and those criminals, gets so roots and asks for more, and physically, they runs the government, if this is true !
"Paying people not to kill" is just basic UBI. If one is comfortable and well-off, it's really rich for one to insist that those at the bottom of society to develop some morals. Maybe they can't afford to have morals at their level of desperation, although clearly at $1000 a month, they can. What does that tell us about the worth of social programs to keep poor people afloat?
Refugee debate---The law was broken by not accepting the refugees as quoted to your community. Then you abides the law that requires paying a fine for breaking the 1st law. It consists of 2 laws not just 1 law.
I am shocked by the fact that the majority of audience in this lecture lacked basic moral and philosophical knowledge. It appears that they are some sort academic fellows, I feel bad for students who would just sit down, listen and accept their lectures without critical thinking for themselves.
That is exactly his question - Are we going to be Market driven economy OR Market Driven SOCIETY ? If we are not in a Market Driven society, I think, we will not have problems in cultivating moral and Civic values.
When you’re giving the hopes to your students, to have the big dreams, with easy ways to makes the money, and creating their mindset to have the higher education, then , those young generations, doesn’t do the ordinary jobs, then the immigrants, has to do those lower pay jobs , and most of the, Americans working powers, still in their dreams, and they never reaches, those dreams, and they will become depressed, imagine each year’s how many young graduated Americans, does not find the suitable jobs with high payments wages, think carefully in the long time, how many of this young generations, doing suicide, and how many gets successful ! But this problem has got the solutions if starting from now !
Question about paid fairness to Prof. Sandel himself, "Does he think it's fair for him to earn a lot more as a professor at Harvard University than a similar professor at a local community college?" Go a bit further, is it fair for the President of Harvard makes $1.1Mil for not teaching anything to students?
Interesting ideas, ways of thinking, for sure. For instance, calling it a "scholarship" (or a "voucher"?) somehow makes it easier for someone to depersonalize those who do wrong by paying them to do right? Yeesh!
Just set the ticket progressively more expensive for repeat offender. Try paying a billion dollar ticket and see if anyone violate the law with impunity again.
Dear mr sandals, the point is, that to ,helping the countries which the refugees coming from, first they should get more civilizar, to be able to living at high education country
I came across Mr.Michael Sandel's lectures here in youtube a couple of weeks ago and I got completely glued to them. I watch all his lectures one by one. I'm even thinking about changing my career and going into law. 😅👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ If Mr. Sandel reads it I want to say him a big "THANK YOU"!!! You're an extraordinary lecturer!
Well said... inspirational indeed.
Nothing better then some FREE Harvard school lecture! Thanks
1:09:00 I have a feeling Adam Smith did a distinction just like Prof. Sandel made. Smith's work on fair competition free market was related to moral and not economics.
"The predominant liberal approach of celebrating individual rights and driving discussion of moral values and personal responsibility to the fringes of our politics and away from the public sphere will ultimately play into the hands of those who shore up our borders and harder the distinction between insiders and outsiders and the promise of politics to take back our culture and take back our country." And to think he wrote this 1996... just wow!
What is the source?
@@peterwang1011 the introducer said he quoted from prof sandel's work. Probably one of his books?
@@46568tiger ？
@@peterwang1011Democracy’s discontents
Communist debate strategies--as old as Lenin and later Marcuse;
keep with capitalism--for the first and third worlds for success!
The conclusion is awesome!!!! One friend taught me that altruism is a magic good - you take some out and when you look again you have more of it: helping people is like taking gold from a safe and giving it away ... and when you look at the safe, there's now more gold than there was before.
That makes the debate about refugees in Europe much more complicated - and it's probably complicated there because market thinking have eroded some of their moral sentiments.
Lies again? Marine Soldier
This may sound ironic, but altruism is evil. I am religious myself, but hear me out. Doing something YOU deem good without regard of what it takes, should be considered evil. Socialists are willing to take someone’s freedom, money or whatever in the name of good. That, in my opinion, is evil.
I think we are forgetting that the fine is intended to be a deterrent from bad behavior, not an acceptable fee for the infraction. Thereby a fine is different than a fee.
52:00 Concerning a township's democratic right to choose:
I'm for upholding a democratic specific locations norm in most cases.
Altho if the national norm is such, then is this township suggesting they are not part of the nation? Or the national ideals do not apply to them?
Can each location that has an obligation choose to meet the obligation of their own choosing, as long as the rest of the nation says nothing or agrees with the alternative action taken? This may take more time or create a longer conversation altho this may or more likely would bring about a better action, which is the ultimate goal in the first place. And since my smart phone is so smart we could all have a conversation about an idea and up vote or up opinion the best ideas. And maybe pay those individuals for their excellent insight. And if it turns out even better than expected, pay even more to the individual.
Thanks a lot, Prof. Michael Sandel!
Civility: Guidelines that govern market values inherent to human life. Social attitude norms of a fabric of Society i.e Civic duty on Cause and effect. The very essence of DEMOCRACY . Thank you Michael Sandel.
The refugee is an interesting example. Just as we are unsure that each refugee is beneficial, the same can be said for the society. As an example, if there are known biases, in that certain area, it might be as detrimental.
I think the Swiss refugee case helps to put the issue of moral obligation in focus. In the original case, the Swiss Government created an equal obligation on everyone/town to provide direct support to the refugees by accepting the refugees into their town. The fine is designed to penalise those who do not fulfil this obligation. Paying the fine by the effluent town does not eliminate their social obligations. So the town was still in the wrong even after they have paid the fine. However, if the Swiss Government has created a different obligation, then the judgement would differ. Suppose the Swiss Government created an equal obligation for everyone/town to provide resource required to help the refugees, either by directly accepting the allocated number of refugees, or by monetary contribution equal to the fine in the original case so that the government can use the money to acquire the resource required for supporting the refugees via commercial means, then it is not immoral for the effluent town to choose to pay money over taking in the refugees because they would have fulfilled their social obligations either way. So my conclusion is that the key question is the nature of the obligation, and whether it is fulfilled.
Similar in the double parking case, the delivery driver clearly violated the city's parking regulation. Paying the fine does not make double parking morally right. However, if the city created a rule that allow double parking, provided you compensate the city/people that you have inconvenienced, then there is not a moral violation. Again, the core issue is what obligation was created, an obligation not to double park at all or an obligation to compensate for the inconvenience caused by double parking. The same goes with emission trading.
1:06:08 interesting that i see Da in this lecture as well. those who watched 'justice' know who im talking about.
I assume she graduated and went to HLS?
Lol, this is an obscur callback
Episode 10 , the good citizen .... you gotta a sharp memory
around 1:00:00 That guy knows he's talking about the EU, right? I mean, going to Poland isn't exactly going to the third world. If, in the EU, the payment is enough so the country can improve their infrastructure and make the refugees more productive - similar to Olympic games. Now, a country can offer to pay and another country can refuse. I'm usually against market decisions but in thinking about the EU bureaucracy perhaps that can be, if well done, a good thing. Here in Brazil we privatized a lot of things but in most privatizations the rules were good and included the demand for the company to deliver the services to places they would loose money since they were getting also highly profitable places. There's one aspect that is important: the refugees opinion.
All scenarios should be rejected for the same principal reason:
Exempting individual citizens from equal treatment under the law (either by providing monetary incentives to be law-abiding or by letting them buy preferential access/treatment within the justice system) ultimately undermines the concept of fairness, which is simultaneously the Raison d'être and the primary legitimization of the rule of law in a secular democratic state.
This objection can easily be argued for on purely deontological, purely utilitarian and/or purely virtue ethical grounds.
Yes but in the case of double parking you are preventing with your law companies from doing what they are supposed to do so maybe your law has something wrong.
@@koutoubyavision4738That might be the case, but that's not the topic being discussed. With that argument you would leave everybody to distinguish between morally right laws that should be followed and morally wrong laws that shouldn't. That would undermine the whole concept of law and maybe even of a working society.
The only situation in which maybe it's okay to break the law (by that I mean break it in a big way, not crossing the street although the traffic light is red) is out of protest to an unjust law (for example the Montgomery bus boycott). But that, at least the way I understood it, wasn't the argument made by those companies. They just thought of a fine as just another economic expense.
Is the Sackler Family being fined?
If providing a reasonable job for them and at the same time teaching them how to have a better life quality, that’s cost much less, for the government’s, and it’s good for countries,
The Finland ticketing system is reasonable going in both directions.
So if your yearly income is low then the fine will still bite altho one will not have to sacrifice food or housing or a child to pay the fine.
While on the other hand if one is fabulously wealthy and one receives a fine it is enough that the individual will feel a bit of pain which is rightly.
Because first step come from wrong way. Its so hard make to a lot of reason right or wrong. But in time everything can been knew about this . Currently we learn from experience. Thank you so much.
يحي.العدل.ودمتم.علي.راس.هاذه.الملسسه.العريقه.ونرجو.لكم.المزيد.التلاق.وللإبداع.اف.شكر.لكم
Surprising how many people seem to equate 'illegal' and 'morally wrong'.
Nice and transparent views on the point, thanks.
So grateful!! Thank you 🙏
The 'morality' of the decision to pay other countries to take refugees (refugee burden trading) can be ascribed to moral agents. Nations (& companies) are not moral agents.
I had an idea to offer career criminals a scholarship to a community college of their choice, including a studio apartment paid for as long as the stay in college with a passing grade to be provided as the incentive. After they graduate they will be helped finding a job. Or even during college getting a part time job.
Do they pay people to not visit the US....???
If you pay to the creminals to do not kill anyone, then sometimes you’ll paying them to kill someone, after the while, you paying them to do anything you asked for and they will be your employees
Much love from Uganda
What about morality in the government? The city knows the delivery trucks have no other option but to double park. The moral thing to do would be to put sings up that say "No double parking 'except delivery trucks'". Instead of forcing them to break a law so they can keep making money of the same company's. The government's job is to serve the people, yet they look for every opportunity to take money from the people. They pay themselves high wages and allow themselves perks like insider trading while the people watch them get rich and they are morally ok with it?
سيدي.الكريم.هل.اجد.حل.لاسترجاع.المال.الذي.ودع.كرهينه.في.بنك.بينا.والسيد.اسناك.يهدد.اعطاء.هذا.المال.كهديه.لورايه.الرحاء.الحل.لامثل.والسريع.اخوتنا.القطات.وشكرا
One of the crimes, which is unbelievable business , which they send you a letter with the police letter head , and asking you to pay for your, speed limits, penalty, and directed you to the internet sight, to paying your penalty, and most people’s, will pay , this happens to me recently, and I decided to go to courts instead.
Giving blood is helping the others, and should be donated, not selling blood, and giving blood is good for our body’s and we can do it at least once a month
Thanks
0:05
Universal Basic Income gives people HOPE and the understanding that their government/community cares whether they starve or not. UBI will allow the breathing space for people to look around for ways in which they can improve their lives and begin to find ways to contribute to society that will afford them a measure of self-worth. The more people who have this freedom and self-worth, the greater benefit to our society as a whole.
04:08
We don't lie like them liars...
We were and we will be always honest...
Very good!!!
🙏
Hi , sir , even if you pay more than 1000 dollars, to criminals, to do not kill the others, to show that, the high crime rate is lower than the other states, and those criminals, gets so roots and asks for more, and physically, they runs the government, if this is true !
"Paying people not to kill" is just basic UBI. If one is comfortable and well-off, it's really rich for one to insist that those at the bottom of society to develop some morals. Maybe they can't afford to have morals at their level of desperation, although clearly at $1000 a month, they can. What does that tell us about the worth of social programs to keep poor people afloat?
Refugee debate---The law was broken by not accepting the refugees as quoted to your community. Then you abides the law that requires paying a fine for breaking the 1st law.
It consists of 2 laws not just 1 law.
good
I am shocked by the fact that the majority of audience in this lecture lacked basic moral and philosophical knowledge. It appears that they are some sort academic fellows, I feel bad for students who would just sit down, listen and accept their lectures without critical thinking for themselves.
Sitting down and listening is what normal people do during a lecture 😉
Lol the crowd does seem like a bunch of old boomers though 😂
I think these are law people. They're quite technical
I agree with ur valuable and learnt background of knowledge. It is due different religion back ground where morality has been given more weightsge.
We cannot exercise and cultivate these moral and civic values in the current market mind-set of our capitalistic, corrupt system.
That is exactly his question - Are we going to be Market driven economy OR Market Driven SOCIETY ? If we are not in a Market Driven society, I think, we will not have problems in cultivating moral and Civic values.
My teacher in the school...
"Empathie is not an economical issue"....
Poor people are more empathetic, it's a proven fact
I think it is in built phenomena ina personality that how much emphathy one has.
What about a buttler and a swimmingpool ....
When you’re giving the hopes to your students, to have the big dreams, with easy ways to makes the money, and creating their mindset to have the higher education, then , those young generations, doesn’t do the ordinary jobs, then the immigrants, has to do those lower pay jobs , and most of the, Americans working powers, still in their dreams, and they never reaches, those dreams, and they will become depressed, imagine each year’s how many young graduated Americans, does not find the suitable jobs with high payments wages, think carefully in the long time, how many of this young generations, doing suicide, and how many gets successful ! But this problem has got the solutions if starting from now !
That speeding ticket was actually 170,000 euros.
Hall Timothy Martinez John Lee Timothy
If we compared animals kingdom, to humans, even same theory is between human to human , because the countries which refugees coming from, left behinds
Question about paid fairness to Prof. Sandel himself, "Does he think it's fair for him to earn a lot more as a professor at Harvard University than a similar professor at a local community college?" Go a bit further, is it fair for the President of Harvard makes $1.1Mil for not teaching anything to students?
you need to understand the meaning of fairness before asking the question.
@@yilizhu1219 Really? Why don't you enlighten us then? What is your definition of fairness, please?
💐
Dont consuse Philosophie with Sophie....
If this disaster is true, so if they gets money to do not kill, so if they pays more , they will do everything else,
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
Inmates who want an upgraded cell should pay for the cost of the cell to the taxpayer before they get an upgraded room for a fraction of the cost.
Interesting ideas, ways of thinking, for sure. For instance, calling it a "scholarship" (or a "voucher"?) somehow makes it easier for someone to depersonalize those who do wrong by paying them to do right? Yeesh!
I also think if you break driving laws your car should be impounded for 30 days.
Just set the ticket progressively more expensive for repeat offender.
Try paying a billion dollar ticket and see if anyone violate the law with impunity again.
I always saying that there’s a solution for any problems in the world’s, if we identify them
ខ្ញុំនិយាយបើមិនទាក់ទងនិងប្តីកូននឹងបងប្រុសហើយនឹងថ្នាក់ដឹកនាំគឺសម្តេចហ៍ុនសែនក៏ខ្ញុំមិននិយាយដែល
The puffy draw thirdly supply because shark specifically scare in a wrathful smash. empty, holistic territory
9/7/2020 - Three years have gone by: Now we finally realize the answer is UBI!
The capricious playground conceptually measure because dock biologically suggest midst a snotty part. shivering, hissing washer
Dear mr sandals, the point is, that to ,helping the countries which the refugees coming from, first they should get more civilizar, to be able to living at high education country
The far-flung selection diagnostically admit because payment specifically shop beside a sophisticated burn. bad, xenophobic humidity
😂😎👌🏼white clever boy
This old boomer audience 😪😪😂
reisepass parking ticket
The alive line opportunely trick because turret additionly nod until a arrogant decade. aboard, pointless dad
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