Hi Woody, As an owner of Yamaha Genos 1 and also a Korg PA5X - I totally agree with your review and find it very fair. I don't have the Genos 2 since there didn't appear much change from Genos 1 and decided to have a change and buy the Korg. Both instruments are superb. My Genos 1 is super useful and easy to use live when I'm performing and I have become accustomed to it's way of working. I'm waiting for Genos 3 before coughing up anymore dough....only another 5 or 6 years to wait.....maybe that one will include AI and introduce a touch of randomisation to reduce that sense of repetitiveness and looping (that they all have🤣)
I also use Band In A Box, which is great for working out songs and so forth, but isn't really designed as a gigging platform. I'm sure you could use it as such, but that really wasn't what it was designed for. Now, if you're not familiar with Band In A Box, it's software for accompaniment generation. It will produce up to five instruments, drums, bass, guitar, piano, and strings are ostensibly the instruments, although they are changed. You input the chord progression for the song, so it's not live or real time) and then select a style you want. It generates the backing tracks. Band in a Box DOES produce randomness. Because it knows the length of the chord ahead of time, depending on how the style is written, you may find that you'll have a slightly different style for a one bar, two bar, four bar or even more. So, if you have a chord that only plays for one bar, you may have a different style pattern than a chord that plays for two bars. Furthermore, again, depending on how the style is written, you may have several one bar, several two bar, and several four bar patterns available, and depending on the weighting of each pattern, you may find yourself getting a slightly different, randomized, pattern each time you generate the backing.
Genos2 sounds much better than original. (I've played both for over 500 hours. There is an unwanted slide on the guitar sounds on Genos 2 (but if you fully release between notes (when moving octave+1 or higher you will not get unwanted slides. Sounds are rich. Great as an audio interface. Much faster switching and also loading MP3 and Karaoke video and MIDI files and reading directories on the memory stick too.
I bought the Yamaha DGX-670 for the acoustic piano sound and weighted 88 and the easy 16/44.1 internal recording to a USB drive. The DGX-670 piano is the best sounding I have heard in 40 years of Dpianos. The arranger is a bonus, and it has a style creator too, so you can create your own style and never get bored. There is only a headphone out, but it is not bad driving it with amp//speaker. For an arranger I use the Roland E-A7, mainly because I always create my own styles specifically for the songs I compose. MIDI out is very important so I can MIDI out the 8 track styles to other synths and instruments.
congrats on the DGX, yeah, pianos are really great, especially when you jump into the piano room mode. interesting to read you are creating own styles on the roland, well done!
For me, I discovered Registration Memory back in my young age when I learned to play music with Yamaha Electone organ series. So I’m a fan and for me, a 1-button touch to set the entire keyboard is a must have! So, Long life to Yamaha Genos2, 3, 4 and 5 😜
Hello from Denmark, I have been a keyboard player for 28 years and I have tryed the Genos 2 and the Korg together for 2.month, The Genos was easy to use. (I have an old Tyros 4) the Korg was complicated and with only a few good sounds from rhe factory, you had to make your Owen sounds, to difficult. Today my setup is: keeping my old Tyros 4 and the cheapest keyboard I ever had in my carrier : the Yamaha DGX 670, it is a fantastic instrument especially for dinner music, 88 fully weighted keys and built in keyboard. The Genos are my winner but a high price for a plastic keyboard.
Another great video Woody, and fantastic playing, really enjoying your playing. I have both these great keyboards and I like them both equally, and as you say both have their strengths in different areas over the other. I just wanted to mention one thing, about the extra styles, Korg also has these in the form of Bonusware on their site and its well over 1000 styles, all made by Korg engineers and they are absolutely fabulous, even from the early ones they made, they all play very well on the Pa5x. That DGX you have sounds beautiful too and looks very stylish :)
well, that is the ultimate solution to a tricky decision, buy both! congrats and I know you are having a lot of fun. Thank you so much for bringing the extra Korg styles to our attention.
I tried the Pa5X. 3 themes There is nothing wrong with it but it is always a matter of taste. I replaced my Genos with Genos 2 and WOW every day I enjoy the great sounds in the more orchestral and Bigband genre. The Genos was already the top in that genre for me! The Genos 2 is pure class and sounds masterfully better than the Genos 1. I also think the Pa5x is very good in terms of quality but I am not blown away by it as I am by the Genos 2.
Good comparison. Neither is perfect. I went with the Korg Pa5x and am very happy with my choice. The build quality and the seamless sound transition feature is what pushed me into the Korg. I could not believe that the Genos2 did not have smooth sound transitions. I am blown away by what I can do with the Korg in terms of creating custom keyboard sets, sounds, samples and styles. No shortage of new things to learn on it. You mention some having issues with Pa5x OS. I have never had a problem.
One other thing I'll add for someone considering the Pa5x is the SongBook in the Korg is the "registrations" similar to Genos. You can save a style, keyboard sets, tempo, pads, etc here for specific songs, then create set lists of tunes you intent to perform so it's ready to go. In addition, Korg gives you 11 "favorite" buttons across the right to save your favorite keyboard sets which can be called up at any time during any tune.
@@billfriesTPA The SongBook feature is totally different than the registration. The registration for performing complicated music with lot of voice changes during performance especially orchestra. I found some users has changed up to 150 times of combined voices during a single piece of orchestra music performance on Genos without stopping the song, I believe it cannot be achieved on the Korg PA5X after talked to some Korg PA experts.
That would put an extra 15-20 lbs on it that I don't think most people would like. It's nice for it to be more portable. The plastic is plenty solid IMO. But I agree it is way overpriced; they did not improve it enough over the original Genos...
The keybed for the Genos and the touch is much better than the soft touch Korg PA5x; however, Korg does have a (very heavy) 88 key piano-touch version. Then the keybed is closer to a piano. (Just to heavy to gig with) for my 54-year-old back.
I agree with your conclusion. I also think that it is crazy that the Genos can't be had with an 88-key weighted keyboard, even as an option. That said, if I was buying a flagshjip arranger, then I'd have to go with the Genos, just because it sounds bette and more realistic to me then the Korg.
Hi Woody Another very intuitive video I myself was thinking to part exchange My PA5X for a Genos 2 already having a Genos 1 previously , now I exchanged for the Korg Nautilus so you can say I'm a Korg fan . Many thanks
How I wish it were that simple! Genos 2 has significantly better orchestral (fast bowed strings, brass and horns, woodwinds) and easier to use phrased articulation voices (S.Art2 Sax, clarinet, flutes, duduks, trumpets etc vs DNC Sax & flutes on PA5x). But: the bass on the PA5x is incredible; there are more, and more expressive basses on the Genos 2, but I'm referring to the superb bass compression on the Korg: it really adds punch to the electric basses and drums. So basically, in genres, Pa5x would have a big edge for dance/hip hop, R&B, and punchier 80's pop & rock; *however* the G2 including the DX7ii means a lot of 80's stuff is no longer 'approximate' but the real deal. G2 wins in orchestral, country, big band, ballroom jazz, latin, country; and both are now really good for 80's stuff. I know everyone looks at the casing and thinks there's not much between G1 and G2, but there's actually as much difference between G1 and T5 as there is between G1 and G2. And new, incredible S.Art2 basses on G2! If only there were a way to add that super tight compressor to the G2. The new U3, felt, and character pianos on G2 are *really* good, but overall I'll still take the Pa5x on pianos, because there are more good ones (they have a cinematic piano which is felt-ish, but if you need a true felt piano, G2 it is!). I do find the G2 easier to navigate and create/edit styles and songs with (especially with midi, having the score makes it easier to see when editing incorrect notes). The VH is easier and more intuitive to use on the PA5x, but you can edit them on the G2 to get similar results (but the fact that vocal harmony 'slides' when I'm sliding from note to note is fantastic on the PA5x). On the other hand, no registrations on Korg (songbook isn't the same thing... no chaining for starters), no automatic SSS on Yamaha (you can do it manually though... jumping through hoops though). The build quality is definitely nicer on the PA5x: keys (especially the semiweighted versions), capacitive multi touch, tilt screen, and just the solidness. But if you buy a keyboard for the *acoustic* sounds, not the looks, and you're heavily invested in orchestral sounds, G2 would be the way to go. G2 wins in strings, brass & horns, woodwinds, steel string and heavy distortion guitars, DX ep's, orchestral & latin percussion; PA5x wins in classical guitars (but using down on the joystick instead of a pedal to body tap is awkward), pianos(!), synth strings, slight crunch electric, electric basses and non orchestral/bigband/jazz drums. If you want it to feel like it's built like a tank? And you're mainly focusing on non-orchestral rock band/pop stuff? Pa5x. It really goes back and forth, and if you can, you should try them both out at a shop side by side (that's how ours are set up). But the above is basically the comparison in a nutshell. *Both* have the new issue of turning off Right voice 1,2,3, and the sound immediately stops, regardless of pressing sustain or not. But the Yamahas have a partial workaround, I've yet to find one for PA5x. *edit* Yamaha have now fixed that issue on PSRs920/sx720 with os v1.11
@@MarkWilburnTLMRegarding the new electric basses on Genos2: E.BassRock1, E.BassRock2 and E.BassJazz sound very similar, to say the least. I am on V1.03. Do I need to update the firmware to fix this?
@@followyourpassion8378 No, they work as is right out of the box. Try the Super Articulation buttons to see where the differences are; there are also a bunch of new slap basses that all *sound* similar, but with very different behaviour. Same with these.
Hi Woody! It was very exciting to watch this video! If one is choosing between these two top-drawer instruments from the two top manufacturers in the business, then one is in for a real treat! The thing that surprised me though is what you said about the synths/pads being equally good on either. I would have expected the Korg to have the upper hand here. Yamaha having superior acoustic instruments isn’t a surprise though as it has been this way for years. However, the thing that REALLY took me by surprise - and I kind of anticipated something like these, given that the ‘snow white’ has been in the picture frame for most of the video - is when you introduced the DGX-670! You put things in real perspective with that one and it isn’t every reviewer would do. In fact, you’re just about the only person whom I can imagine actually doing it!! Obviously, the DGX won’t be as advanced as any of those but in the right hands, it will be ‘almost there’, at a fraction of the price and with, IMHO, the looks to light up the room! One might even look at it as a slap in the face to both the Genos 2 and PA5X by the ‘little’ DGX-670!! The problem with the DGX-670 for me is the size. I simply do not have the space for a keyboard of this size and from what I’ve gathered, it isn’t exactly feather-light either which, I guess, is a consequence of it being made so well and having a really good set of speakers. I wish Yamaha would make a smaller, 73/76 key version with the same GHS action like they did with the P-125/121 digital pianos that you had prior to the DGX. I think the manufacturers are underestimating the importance of models with fewer keys and integrated speakers. As prices of everything are going up for us here in Europe, the demand for smaller and cheaper accommodation will become greater and so, a smaller instrument becomes more desirable than a full-size 88-key one. You can still have everything - hammer action and built-in speakers, just in a slightly more manageable package. Not all of us want to play Chopin (even if that might be the ultimate achievement)! I am rambling, sorry about that! Anyway, a great video - informative and entertaining as always - and with a point! Thank you, Woody! Cheers!
I have had Korg for many years and wanted to change so I switched over to Yamaha had the T3 T4 T5 I still have the T5 and for Christmas 24 I am getting the Genos 2 so glad I switched found the ease of use and the quality of sounds seem to be that little bit better than the Korg.
Great comparison, thanks a lot, Woody! Formerly, I owened the Yamaha PSR-3000, now have the PSR-S970. I am very much used to the Yamaha operating philosophy. Thus, I would go for Yamaha again when buying a new keboard sometime.
hi Woody, I just want to say Your video’s are well put together…I really enjoy the quality of the sound , the image…and your humour :-) you crack me up ..and for me it
Your comparison is exeptional good, it covers all aspects, and it is just to the point! I have seen many comparisons, but this is the best! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Very competent and well-balanced !, Just one example is your comparison about styles (this is very good expressed) 11:03 Styles is another really tricky one to compare, but here's what I think the overall quality of the Styles is pretty much the same on both, it's the same structure the same number of Parts the same variations intros and endings so nothing to choose between the sound quality and the overall composition quality of the Styles both do sound completely different, though the GENOS has a quite high-end clean Studio sound while the PA has a fat warm Punchy and slightly more lowfi sound and I really like them both actually and that means that for contemporary genres like EDM and dance I thought the corg was a clear winner, but for more acoustic genres like folk and the orchestral stuff the GENOS 2 was much better cinematic stuff as well was very much better on the GENOS. I fully agree, ony add this: PA has a fat warm Punchy sound, that is not lofi, but its equilizer and mixer setting makes it sound as if it was slightli lofi. For Popmusic I would prefer the Punchy sound of the PA5X, but as I like classic and cinematic as well, I personally tend to buy the GENOS, but I agree they are both very good and almost equal. The metal housing of th PA5X looks better but the more spaced arrangement of the buttons is a plus for the GENOS. Both have pros an cons. Just as you say.
We make many decisions with our wallets. As a Korg owner for all of my keyboards over the years, starting with the iX300, I would choose the PA5X (if I had the money, I don't). I really like the DGX-670, but I've got a couple of changes I'd like to make to it, although the changes I would like would probably double the price of it. For the DGX-680, I'd like to see: 1. The Stand and Pedal unit included in the price 2. Speaker system from the HS-4 3. The rear panel from the PSR EW425 and then add a standard 5-pin DIN MIDI In/Out ports. 4. A 7" display 800x480 resolution. 5. At least two Intros, two endings, and two fills and a break. I really would like to see three of each. 6. More generic styles and not song-specific. 7.Double the number of styles, this only has 263 styles, it should have over 500. If they did that with the -680, that would be a keyboard I would buy.
The DGX-670 has 3 intros and 3 endings. It also has 4 fills as each variation has its own bridge, and it does have a break. The 3 intros and 3 endings are not accessible by physical buttons (like in the PSR SX series), but via menus. You can download additional styles, and the DGX-670 supports the more advanced format SFF2 (GE), which is found in the PSR-SX series (the PSR-E series supports only SFF1 format). Even though Yamaha's MusicSoft website does not include the DGX-670 in their list of arranger keyboards, the styles you can purchase from them will work, although not as good as in the supported series, such as PSR-SX, due to the relatively limited number of voices.
@@Instrumental-Covers Thank you for the reply. As to the Intro and Endings, if you can not get to them at the start or ending of a song from the panel, to me, they're useless. As to the styles, I can't find anything that says how many styles I can download and install. With a memory of only 20MB, I could see where that would get used up really quickly. As such, my initial comment stands, but thank you for the information.
@@GaryMCurran You are welcome. I think what you want for the intros and endings is the physical buttons like in the PSR-SX, because the instrument does have 3 of each. I can provide you with an idea of the number of styles you can install in the built-in memory: a pretty complex style such as the one found in Genos is about 60 KB. Assuming an average style size of 50 KB, you can install 20MB/50KB = 20,000 KB/50 KB = 400 additional styles. Remember that styles are not audio files, just the instructions, so with a modest memory you can install a very large number of styles. But the DGX-680 you describe would be a welcome addition.
@@Instrumental-Covers Yes, What I am looking for are the buttons on the panel. Since I mostly play live, I want to be able to do things 'on the fly', and having three buttons for each is the best way to go. I took a quick glance through the User's Manual and the Reference Manual and I couldn't find anything about additional files I agree that 20MB would provide for a substantial number of additional styles, but are they on a User Page for styles? How much of that 20 meg is going to be available if you're using it for song sequencing? If we're going to upgrade the upcoming -680, I just think it's easier to have all of these styles and such already loaded. My two cents.
@@GaryMCurran My understanding is that the 20 MB are for the styles, and for song sequencing you have 1MB of internal memory, with 500 records available. So, you have memory for at least 400 additional styles and 500 songs. I think the DGX-670 is the most advanced digital piano ensemble on the market at its price point. The Korg XE20, Roland FP-E50 and Casio PX-S3100 are significantly below in terms of arranger capabilities. For example, the Korg XE20 has the styles found in the arranger Korg PA60, which I owned when it came out around 2000... so the Korg XE20 has the old tone generator and arranger engine from a machine that is almost 25 years old. When I played the XE20 in stores, I could see the names of the styles were the same my old Korg PA60 had. Not to mention that the XE20 Italian sample doesn't have the same quality of the CFX Concert Grand sample in the DGX-670. If Korg put in the XE21 (successor of current XE20) the arranger engine of their current PA series (let's say, the PA1000), a good speaker system (which the XE20 doesn't have), a nice large touch screen instead of the tiny old-school LCD screen, then Yamaha would probably be forced to upgrade their DGX-670. Otherwise, I think the upgrades will be more modest, as they have no incentive to produce a super machine for under $1,000 when the competition is so far behind.
Hello Woody Thanks for the many good videos I have seen from you over the years 🙂 Sometimes they have helped me to get a good vst (Triton, Diva ect.) I consider you as an expert on electronic instruments, so I will ask you something, that’s been on my mind for some time: There are vst versions of almost any thinkable keyboard. Pianos, EP’s, synthesizers, workstations and more. But I have never heard of an arranger-keyboard as vst. Have you? Just think of, how it would be to play, say, a Genos 2 vst from a well equipped midi-keyboard with weighted keys! I know, that I’m dreaming, and less could be interesting, but do you know of any, also simple, arranger-keyboard in a vst version? Yours Sangeet
HI Woody, I've had the Genos, The Korg Kronos, the most recent Nord Stage, The PA5x, and now the Genos 2. I can tell you that I absolutely LOVE Yamaha Genos 2! It can also play MIDI and KARaoke files. The sounds are better. My only gripe with the upgrade from Genos (original) to Genos 2 is that the acoustic guitars (G2) do too much slide / portamento (when it's not wanted). Probably a firmware or setting?
no settings for the articulations, i too find that sometimes it adds too many of the same articulations leading to it sounding repetitive and fake. but with correct playing technique may be possible to control better. congrats on the g2!
Couple of things to add. I own both keyboards. I agree that sound editing capabilities are limited at Genos2 BUT the Korg Pa5X has the full capabilities of a high end Synth workstation plus a fully implemented sampler. Not at all pretty basic sound editing as you said. And there is also a huge difference of the style capabilities! Here also Korg has the much more elaborate concept, with the opportunity to have completely different style variations for different chord types like major, minor, diminished etc. Yamaha derives ALL variations from one basic style played with a major 9 chord. Also Yamaha is much more limited in style editing than the Korg. I don't kknow if you took a look at the documentation? Yamaha 300 pages vs more than 2300 pages for Korg. Lots of the pages dedicated to sound and style programming at Korg side. So I totally disagree to your opinion that sound and styles are comparable. For the Yamaha registrations there is NO way for replacing them with the Korg songbook as you assumed because of the very few aspects that can be saved in the Pa5X songbook compared to the Genos2 registrations. The missing seamless sound transistion on the Genos is a shame, because Yamaha knows how to do seamless sound switching in the Montage/Modx with the same AWM2/FM sound engines. The overall concept and architecture of the Korg is outdated. It is extremely hard to use and has just a renovated architecture compared to the predecessors instead of real innovation. The more modern instrument and ways easier to learn and use is the Yamaha. Overall in my opinion the Yamaha is the keyboards for players whereas the Korg is the one for Creators. PS: I think the main focus group for both keyboards are entertainers and believe me there is absolutely nothing which the audience hates more than "a creative new interpretation" of a known title. So title specific styles are a core feature for the target audience of the keyboards.
brilliant points, thanks for adding your insights to the conversation. strangely, i did explore the sound editing capabilities of the Pa and they were nowhere near that of a synth workstation... but it was a while ago, and perhaps i didn't even reach the right page.
Most of the PA5X are specific styles and many of them are more oriented to contemporary music while Genos is more focused on that kind of music that elder people like. Although in fact the woodwinds and other acoustic in Genos 2 sounds better, PA5X is like a limitless customizable keyboard for a more professional or enthusiastic use. Caming from TYROS4 during 10 years, I'm very happy with my PA5X. But having the 2 wouldn't be a bad idea...
Did the PA5X get updated? Because I remember reading the manual when it came out to see if any interesting synthesis capabilities were in there.. and didn’t see anything close to a synth workstation
@@WagooYou probably missed something. PA5X_Muser_Manual_v12_E.pdf pages 911 through 1048 + 1469 through 1576. Even more capable than Yamaha's AWM2 and fully editable. I am not interested in discussing whether aditional sound engines would makes sense or not as long as it is possible to program almost every sound based what Korg built in.
@@cyberblade6120 so you can effectively have 160 stereo multisamples (up to 24 per note) playing at once, with 2 LFOs, pitch env, LPF & HPF filters, filer env, keyboard tracking. It looks like samples max out around 21 seconds.. then FX on top Not that I dislike traditional samplers (eg. I have Emulator II, S1000, ASR-10, MPC, S-50 etc etc) but the sculpting abilities in that engine seem very much geared towards making a sample sound like the original instrument.. where that instrument is a violin or something We have different definitions of what "almost every sound" comprises, as sure with a sampler you can sample any source.. but if you are sampling other synths you need to account for any complex modulation going on and the character of how that patch evolves I think we just live in different universes still and I'd have more fun with samples in something like the Wavestate, Quantum or V-Synth. PA5X having sample reverse is nice but I'd like a lot more depth extending towards granular ideally But I do think the sample engine in the PA5X looks suited to its target market, even if I find that to be some bizarre parallel universe most of the time. Definitely much less cheese drips off it than the Genos in general, and you could probably setup some really nice multisample layers a bit like Kontakt or such does It's still not for me, but cheers
You said that both keyboards are pretty basic in sound editing compared to a workstation. Did you get to know the built-in synthesizer during your search in the Pa5X? Support for WAV files that you can then use in 24 oscillators, multiple filters and many other synthesizer functions. I have both instruments and in my opinion the Pa5X is an Arranger Workstation and the Genos 2 is an Arranger. When I need a sound for a song I just make it myself on the Pa5X while for the Genos 2 I have to look for something that resembles it and with limited possibilities have to try to change the sound so that I come close to it.About the styles, you say that the structure of the styles is comparable but that is not the case. There are many more possibilities in creating professional styles on the Pa5X than can be made with the Genos 2. However, this is also a threshold. The learning curve is very high with the Pa5X and for most average arranger players too much of a good thing. I think that the Pa5X can be too complicated for the home user. You are bombarded with options and a manual of 2000 pages so that you do not use the options because it is too complex. I love both instruments! Talking about additional style. The Genos 2 comes with expansion packs and Korg adds styles with every update.
Hi Woody - An 88 note Piano only has 12 more notes than a Genos. That's 6 bottom and 6 top. How often do people actually use the 6 bottom 6 top notes on a piano? And the Genos has a -2 to +2 octave shift so those notes are covered on the Genos anyway. 😶Dave Price
Hi Woody. I am following your work quite some long and really appreciate how you do it. Eventually, this is a really good comparison. I personally prefer a Genous sound, especially in sound quality. But, did you have a chance to take a look at one serious keyboard arranger, KETRON EVENT? Your point of view will be outstanding! Is it possible to have a battle between these three?
why doesn't Genos 2 have smooth transitions yet? Can that be addressed in software? Switching between different styles or patches while notes are playing is much better implemented in Korg. I love my Genos 2 and sold my PA5x if that says anything from my personal $ in these.
Seen a lot of positivity about the DGX, although is it similar in sound quality to the sx600 ? The genos and pa5x certainly "sound" like a few grands worth! Loving those EP's.
Is Yamaha doing a similar thing as the Tyros? We've seen five of them before the Genos came out, and is fortunately compatible with Tyros media. For some reason the Korg reminds me of a Motif or a DX7...how heavy is it? The winner is there all along...sitting silently on the couch! But for real, it seems like the Genos, the Clavinova series, PSRs and the DGX shares a similar core engine, just packaged differently...
the pa is heavy, like 15kg, which I appreciate that solidity and sturdiness in a studio keyboard! and even if your gigging, you probably take it in the car so weight no matter...? i agree with your last comment, they all share very similar DNA
@@WoodyPianoShack The weight isn't actually that bad. Can't just put it in the usual gig bag. For the commuting gigger that can be a bit more hassle, but hey, it should survive a few knocks here and there...
If you are a past Korg owner you stick with Korg or vice versus with Yamaha due to the sets that you already have, as a Korg user it's hard to switch to a Yamaha although I have the PSR-a5000 also and the KORG pa5x, the complaints on the 5x is that previous sets that are a mix mash of different sets will sometimes get you in trouble because they are not paid and not 100 percent optimized, so the complaints are from users that have the free sets and not the paid sets that are more refined and better working, I love the 5X and sold the 4 because there is a big difference as opposed to Genos 1 and 2 which most user would not upgrade. Either instruments are great and players should not get swayed into opinions of others if you are a new user of these keyboards my 2 cents. :)
Genos2 would be a no-brainer for anyone accustomed to Yamaha arrangers (which is, just about everyone playing arrangers the last 30+ years), but not at 4K+ euros. I could never convince myself to buy a plastic keyboard for 4K.
I've used Yamaha arranger keyboards for many years and what I liked most was the directness of the system. The downside is that I could not create custom sounds , styles etc. to my liking. Since last years I am using Korg arrangers which are way more flexible in that respect. It was quite a steep learning curve but it opened a world of new possibilities for me. Furthermore, Korg keyboards have far better sounding drawbars than Yamaha arranger keyboards. And btw I never had any problems with the OS of the Korg yet. The Genos actually froze once during a performance. In my opinion the Korg is overall more suitable for live performances than the Yamaha.
Nice review. Too bad you didn't get a chance to check out the sound bar for the Korg. It's great and connects without cables. It has as deep synth, but they need to create more graphics so it's easier to edit, nstead of looking at numbers.
While you were talking about the PA5x and the Genos 2; I was lusting over the DGX670 beside you. Isn't she a beauty and sounds absolutely gorgeous. How would a DGX 670 with an i3 work as a pair?
@@idemditto I know i can create sounds with them but my Tyros 3 has been good enough for me... and Genos 2 will serve me good :) both are good but in their own ways.
Great review, the DGX just needs more styles and it is awesome. Yamaha is made for players, other brands are for geeks and knob turners. Yamaha is designed to be played while other brads are for spending time to figure things out in the back room. It’s either be a player or become an engineer to get things going.
This time you did it right to tell some Of the things that is true! Pa 5X, is behind with Os, but I’m Sure it will Now crush the genos, especially with the ARTIST EDITION. Du borde dema det!
Pa5x you can’t edit the arranger in midi which is very important then convert to audio. On the Genos,.You can edit your volumes for different parts and other editing complete your arrangement after it’s all balanced convert it to audio then upload to wherever . Pa5x is a great gigging keyboard, good sounds and beats. You can only record the arranger in mp3audio which is only one trackYes it’s modern and great, great to solo on ,and very musical but not true arranger . Previous Korg were truearrangers.Genos for me is a true arranger. I have both love them both . It’s great to Be able to arrange the arranger parts in midi , upper and lower all 16 tracks then save when your happy ,and then x convert to mp3 or4. Am getting rid of pa5x .
My problem is they both suit me equally. I want 88 keys with hammer grade action, i also want the ease of use and styles of the Genos2.. I also love the brushed metal facade of the PA5X.. i just want it all. Is that really so hard?
I think you should do a community vote just for fun. I can't make out in the comments what arranger that wins according to your audience. Of course there is not a real winner. I myself is a Tyros 3 owner jusr ordered my Genos 2 just this week. I was reading up on the Korg but the Genos 2 was a better solution for me to be able to cary it arround, and of course for me to be able to use my old setup in a new environment. I have been looking at the SX series but their keybeds are not up to par when i've been using the Tyros 3 with it's FSX keyboard.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes, but there is three types of votes to consider: 1. If you have tested both which is best? 2. If your buying one or have bought, which did/would you choose? 3. If you could get one of these for free what would you choose?
it completely depends on what the taste of the sounds and accompaniments is.. you cannot achieve certain dynamics of playing with a korg and vice versa.. you cannot make a comparison with genos 1
*_MUY DE BUENAS EL QUE TENGA DINERO PARA TENER SEMEJANTES MÁQUINAS DE TECLADOS, ACÁ EN COLOMBIA UNO SOLO LOS PUEDE TENER EN SUEÑOS, ESCASAMENTE SI UNO CONSIGUE LA SX900 O SX920 ES UN MILAGRO PORQUE SON MUY CARAS_*
@@charthers8903 You could argue that some tones are better "stock" tones that others but the PA5X has the ability for better sounds than the PA4X its plain and simple. The PA5X has a better DSP. Read for yourself . --- The Korg PA5X delivers superior tones compared to the PA4X due to its upgraded EDS-XP sound engine, which provides richer and more detailed instrument sounds. It has increased PCM memory, allowing for higher-quality samples and a wider variety of tones. The enhanced effects section, improved polyphony, and advanced Defined Nuance Control (DNC) technology contribute to more realistic articulations and smoother transitions. Additionally, the PA5X features a more intuitive interface for sound shaping and new high-quality presets.
J'anime des thés dansants pour un public qui a plus de 60 ans .. Je ne joue aucune musique moderne (pop, rap, techno, house, DJ) J'ai changé mon Tyros 4 pour un Génos .. Erreur ! Pour jouer un rock'n'roll, un twist, un boogie, un cha-cha, une valse, un tango, une samba, une marche ... Le Génos et le Tyros 1 font la même chose ! Aucune amélioration en plus de 20 ans ! Pire, pour jouer un Bill Haley ou un chuck berry les styles d'usine jouent avec des guitares disto !!! Et quand je veux changer les guitares, des bruits bizarres apparaissent !! Et j'imagine que le Genos 2 n'a rien amélioré dans ce domaine.
@@KeybardExplorer not my case, and i have the Audya as well, Support is amazing, at least here in the USA. AJ Rocks.... all other keyboards sound "canned", try it live (Event), and then report back!!! :-)
@@krysbryan4749 for me the best quality of arrangements and reality of the accompanying instruments!! maybe even more modern and innovative styles... then everyone has their own tastes ..
1:35 Build quality
2:12 Keybed
3:00 Display
5:44 Front panel
6:43 Operating system
9:27 Sounds
10:59 Styles
15:15 Features
18:44 Connectivity
21:01 Which is best?
Hi Woody, As an owner of Yamaha Genos 1 and also a Korg PA5X - I totally agree with your review and find it very fair. I don't have the Genos 2 since there didn't appear much change from Genos 1 and decided to have a change and buy the Korg. Both instruments are superb. My Genos 1 is super useful and easy to use live when I'm performing and I have become accustomed to it's way of working. I'm waiting for Genos 3 before coughing up anymore dough....only another 5 or 6 years to wait.....maybe that one will include AI and introduce a touch of randomisation to reduce that sense of repetitiveness and looping (that they all have🤣)
OMG! Ai is going to completely revolutionize Super Articulation 2! 🤯
I also use Band In A Box, which is great for working out songs and so forth, but isn't really designed as a gigging platform. I'm sure you could use it as such, but that really wasn't what it was designed for. Now, if you're not familiar with Band In A Box, it's software for accompaniment generation. It will produce up to five instruments, drums, bass, guitar, piano, and strings are ostensibly the instruments, although they are changed. You input the chord progression for the song, so it's not live or real time) and then select a style you want. It generates the backing tracks.
Band in a Box DOES produce randomness. Because it knows the length of the chord ahead of time, depending on how the style is written, you may find that you'll have a slightly different style for a one bar, two bar, four bar or even more. So, if you have a chord that only plays for one bar, you may have a different style pattern than a chord that plays for two bars. Furthermore, again, depending on how the style is written, you may have several one bar, several two bar, and several four bar patterns available, and depending on the weighting of each pattern, you may find yourself getting a slightly different, randomized, pattern each time you generate the backing.
*_PARA QUE TIENE QUE PONER TANTAS FASTIDIOSAS LUPAS EN SU COMENTARIO?_*
Genos2 sounds much better than original. (I've played both for over 500 hours. There is an unwanted slide on the guitar sounds on Genos 2 (but if you fully release between notes (when moving octave+1 or higher you will not get unwanted slides. Sounds are rich. Great as an audio interface. Much faster switching and also loading MP3 and Karaoke video and MIDI files and reading directories on the memory stick too.
I bought the Yamaha DGX-670 for the acoustic piano sound and weighted 88 and the easy 16/44.1 internal recording to a USB drive. The DGX-670 piano is the best sounding I have heard in 40 years of Dpianos. The arranger is a bonus, and it has a style creator too, so you can create your own style and never get bored. There is only a headphone out, but it is not bad driving it with amp//speaker. For an arranger I use the Roland E-A7, mainly because I always create my own styles specifically for the songs I compose. MIDI out is very important so I can MIDI out the 8 track styles to other synths and instruments.
congrats on the DGX, yeah, pianos are really great, especially when you jump into the piano room mode. interesting to read you are creating own styles on the roland, well done!
For me, I discovered Registration Memory back in my young age when I learned to play music with Yamaha Electone organ series. So I’m a fan and for me, a 1-button touch to set the entire keyboard is a must have! So, Long life to Yamaha Genos2, 3, 4 and 5 😜
Hello from Denmark, I have been a keyboard player for 28 years and I have tryed the Genos 2 and the Korg together for 2.month, The Genos was easy to use. (I have an old Tyros 4) the Korg was complicated and with only a few good sounds from rhe factory, you had to make your Owen sounds, to difficult. Today my setup is: keeping my old Tyros 4 and the cheapest keyboard I ever had in my carrier : the Yamaha DGX 670, it is a fantastic instrument especially for dinner music, 88 fully weighted keys and built in keyboard. The Genos are my winner but a high price for a plastic keyboard.
fabulous insights, much appreciated, thanks for sharing your opinions
Another great video Woody, and fantastic playing, really enjoying your playing. I have both these great keyboards and I like them both equally, and as you say both have their strengths in different areas over the other. I just wanted to mention one thing, about the extra styles, Korg also has these in the form of Bonusware on their site and its well over 1000 styles, all made by Korg engineers and they are absolutely fabulous, even from the early ones they made, they all play very well on the Pa5x. That DGX you have sounds beautiful too and looks very stylish :)
well, that is the ultimate solution to a tricky decision, buy both! congrats and I know you are having a lot of fun. Thank you so much for bringing the extra Korg styles to our attention.
@@WoodyPianoShack You're most welcome Woody, brilliant stuff as always!
Thanks Woody :)
Awesome video sir! Thanks for sharing.
I tried the Pa5X. 3 themes There is nothing wrong with it but it is always a matter of taste.
I replaced my Genos with Genos 2 and WOW every day I enjoy the great sounds in the more orchestral and Bigband genre. The Genos was already the top in that genre for me!
The Genos 2 is pure class and sounds masterfully better than the Genos 1.
I also think the Pa5x is very good in terms of quality but I am not blown away by it as I am by the Genos 2.
very fair and reasonable, congrats btw on your g2!
Great review Woody. Very objective. As it should be. So thank you for that.
Good comparison. Neither is perfect. I went with the Korg Pa5x and am very happy with my choice. The build quality and the seamless sound transition feature is what pushed me into the Korg. I could not believe that the Genos2 did not have smooth sound transitions. I am blown away by what I can do with the Korg in terms of creating custom keyboard sets, sounds, samples and styles. No shortage of new things to learn on it. You mention some having issues with Pa5x OS. I have never had a problem.
One other thing I'll add for someone considering the Pa5x is the SongBook in the Korg is the "registrations" similar to Genos. You can save a style, keyboard sets, tempo, pads, etc here for specific songs, then create set lists of tunes you intent to perform so it's ready to go. In addition, Korg gives you 11 "favorite" buttons across the right to save your favorite keyboard sets which can be called up at any time during any tune.
@@billfriesTPA The SongBook feature is totally different than the registration. The registration for performing complicated music with lot of voice changes during performance especially orchestra. I found some users has changed up to 150 times of combined voices during a single piece of orchestra music performance on Genos without stopping the song, I believe it cannot be achieved on the Korg PA5X after talked to some Korg PA experts.
For the price of the Genos I would expect a metal and wood keyboard enclosure
yeah, that would be a reasonable expectation
That would put an extra 15-20 lbs on it that I don't think most people would like. It's nice for it to be more portable. The plastic is plenty solid IMO. But I agree it is way overpriced; they did not improve it enough over the original Genos...
The keybed for the Genos and the touch is much better than the soft touch Korg PA5x; however, Korg does have a (very heavy) 88 key piano-touch version. Then the keybed is closer to a piano. (Just to heavy to gig with) for my 54-year-old back.
I agree with your conclusion. I also think that it is crazy that the Genos can't be had with an 88-key weighted keyboard, even as an option. That said, if I was buying a flagshjip arranger, then I'd have to go with the Genos, just because it sounds bette and more realistic to me then the Korg.
Very interesting comparaison.
Hi Woody
Another very intuitive video I myself was thinking to part exchange My PA5X for a Genos 2 already having a Genos 1 previously , now I exchanged for the Korg Nautilus so you can say I'm a Korg fan .
Many thanks
The Genos 1/2 kills everything on the market atm.
How I wish it were that simple!
Genos 2 has significantly better orchestral (fast bowed strings, brass and horns, woodwinds) and easier to use phrased articulation voices (S.Art2 Sax, clarinet, flutes, duduks, trumpets etc vs DNC Sax & flutes on PA5x).
But: the bass on the PA5x is incredible; there are more, and more expressive basses on the Genos 2, but I'm referring to the superb bass compression on the Korg: it really adds punch to the electric basses and drums. So basically, in genres, Pa5x would have a big edge for dance/hip hop, R&B, and punchier 80's pop & rock; *however* the G2 including the DX7ii means a lot of 80's stuff is no longer 'approximate' but the real deal. G2 wins in orchestral, country, big band, ballroom jazz, latin, country; and both are now really good for 80's stuff. I know everyone looks at the casing and thinks there's not much between G1 and G2, but there's actually as much difference between G1 and T5 as there is between G1 and G2.
And new, incredible S.Art2 basses on G2! If only there were a way to add that super tight compressor to the G2. The new U3, felt, and character pianos on G2 are *really* good, but overall I'll still take the Pa5x on pianos, because there are more good ones (they have a cinematic piano which is felt-ish, but if you need a true felt piano, G2 it is!). I do find the G2 easier to navigate and create/edit styles and songs with (especially with midi, having the score makes it easier to see when editing incorrect notes). The VH is easier and more intuitive to use on the PA5x, but you can edit them on the G2 to get similar results (but the fact that vocal harmony 'slides' when I'm sliding from note to note is fantastic on the PA5x). On the other hand, no registrations on Korg (songbook isn't the same thing... no chaining for starters), no automatic SSS on Yamaha (you can do it manually though... jumping through hoops though). The build quality is definitely nicer on the PA5x: keys (especially the semiweighted versions), capacitive multi touch, tilt screen, and just the solidness.
But if you buy a keyboard for the *acoustic* sounds, not the looks, and you're heavily invested in orchestral sounds, G2 would be the way to go. G2 wins in strings, brass & horns, woodwinds, steel string and heavy distortion guitars, DX ep's, orchestral & latin percussion; PA5x wins in classical guitars (but using down on the joystick instead of a pedal to body tap is awkward), pianos(!), synth strings, slight crunch electric, electric basses and non orchestral/bigband/jazz drums. If you want it to feel like it's built like a tank? And you're mainly focusing on non-orchestral rock band/pop stuff? Pa5x.
It really goes back and forth, and if you can, you should try them both out at a shop side by side (that's how ours are set up). But the above is basically the comparison in a nutshell.
*Both* have the new issue of turning off Right voice 1,2,3, and the sound immediately stops, regardless of pressing sustain or not. But the Yamahas have a partial workaround, I've yet to find one for PA5x.
*edit* Yamaha have now fixed that issue on PSRs920/sx720 with os v1.11
@@MarkWilburnTLMRegarding the new electric basses on Genos2: E.BassRock1, E.BassRock2 and E.BassJazz sound very similar, to say the least. I am on V1.03. Do I need to update the firmware to fix this?
@@followyourpassion8378 No, they work as is right out of the box. Try the Super Articulation buttons to see where the differences are; there are also a bunch of new slap basses that all *sound* similar, but with very different behaviour. Same with these.
I really enjoy your performance 🎉
I agree 1) The DGX670 and then 2) SX920/sx720 ... Both are very good values. I wish they had an 88-key version of the SX920.
Sort of defeats the object but you can connect an 88 key controller to Genos and sx920 for full octave control.
@@stuartingram423thought about it … but it is unpleasant to play with two keyboards on top of each other
Hi Woody!
It was very exciting to watch this video! If one is choosing between these two top-drawer instruments from the two top manufacturers in the business, then one is in for a real treat!
The thing that surprised me though is what you said about the synths/pads being equally good on either. I would have expected the Korg to have the upper hand here. Yamaha having superior acoustic instruments isn’t a surprise though as it has been this way for years.
However, the thing that REALLY took me by surprise - and I kind of anticipated something like these, given that the ‘snow white’ has been in the picture frame for most of the video - is when you introduced the DGX-670! You put things in real perspective with that one and it isn’t every reviewer would do. In fact, you’re just about the only person whom I can imagine actually doing it!! Obviously, the DGX won’t be as advanced as any of those but in the right hands, it will be ‘almost there’, at a fraction of the price and with, IMHO, the looks to light up the room! One might even look at it as a slap in the face to both the Genos 2 and PA5X by the ‘little’ DGX-670!!
The problem with the DGX-670 for me is the size. I simply do not have the space for a keyboard of this size and from what I’ve gathered, it isn’t exactly feather-light either which, I guess, is a consequence of it being made so well and having a really good set of speakers. I wish Yamaha would make a smaller, 73/76 key version with the same GHS action like they did with the P-125/121 digital pianos that you had prior to the DGX.
I think the manufacturers are underestimating the importance of models with fewer keys and integrated speakers. As prices of everything are going up for us here in Europe, the demand for smaller and cheaper accommodation will become greater and so, a smaller instrument becomes more desirable than a full-size 88-key one. You can still have everything - hammer action and built-in speakers, just in a slightly more manageable package. Not all of us want to play Chopin (even if that might be the ultimate achievement)!
I am rambling, sorry about that! Anyway, a great video - informative and entertaining as always - and with a point! Thank you, Woody!
Cheers!
I have had Korg for many years and wanted to change so I switched over to Yamaha had the T3 T4 T5 I still have the T5 and for Christmas 24 I am getting the Genos 2 so glad I switched found the ease of use and the quality of sounds seem to be that little bit better than the Korg.
Your arranger videos persuaded me to try getting a Korg EK-50L. I need to try your genre crossover covers!
The comparison I waited for!
can you read my mind ;-)
Great comparison, thanks a lot, Woody!
Formerly, I owened the Yamaha PSR-3000, now have the PSR-S970. I am very much used to the Yamaha operating philosophy.
Thus, I would go for Yamaha again when buying a new keboard sometime.
Well presented 🎉
hi Woody, I just want to say Your video’s are well put together…I really enjoy the quality of the sound , the image…and your humour :-) you crack me up ..and for me it
Yes PA5X has better hardware, but if you are satisfied and can play and how to use it, why not 🎉 I am still happy with the PSR-SX920
Your comparison is exeptional good, it covers all aspects, and it is just to the point!
I have seen many comparisons, but this is the best! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Very competent and well-balanced !,
Just one example is your comparison about styles (this is very good expressed)
11:03
Styles is another really tricky one to compare,
but here's what I think the overall quality of the Styles is pretty much the same on both,
it's the same structure the same number of Parts the
same variations intros and endings so nothing to choose between
the sound quality and the overall composition
quality of the Styles both do sound completely different,
though the GENOS has a quite high-end clean Studio sound
while the PA has a fat warm Punchy and slightly more lowfi sound and I really
like them both actually and that means that for contemporary genres like EDM
and dance I thought the corg was a clear winner,
but for more acoustic genres like folk and the orchestral stuff the GENOS 2
was much better cinematic stuff as well was very much better on the GENOS.
I fully agree, ony add this: PA has a fat warm Punchy sound, that is not lofi, but its equilizer and mixer setting makes it sound as if it was slightli lofi.
For Popmusic I would prefer the Punchy sound of the PA5X,
but as I like classic and cinematic as well, I personally tend to buy the GENOS, but I agree they are both very good and almost equal. The metal housing of th PA5X looks better but the more spaced arrangement of the buttons is a plus for the GENOS.
Both have pros an cons. Just as you say.
We make many decisions with our wallets. As a Korg owner for all of my keyboards over the years, starting with the iX300, I would choose the PA5X (if I had the money, I don't). I really like the DGX-670, but I've got a couple of changes I'd like to make to it, although the changes I would like would probably double the price of it.
For the DGX-680, I'd like to see:
1. The Stand and Pedal unit included in the price
2. Speaker system from the HS-4
3. The rear panel from the PSR EW425 and then add a standard 5-pin DIN MIDI In/Out ports.
4. A 7" display 800x480 resolution.
5. At least two Intros, two endings, and two fills and a break. I really would like to see three of each.
6. More generic styles and not song-specific.
7.Double the number of styles, this only has 263 styles, it should have over 500.
If they did that with the -680, that would be a keyboard I would buy.
The DGX-670 has 3 intros and 3 endings. It also has 4 fills as each variation has its own bridge, and it does have a break. The 3 intros and 3 endings are not accessible by physical buttons (like in the PSR SX series), but via menus. You can download additional styles, and the DGX-670 supports the more advanced format SFF2 (GE), which is found in the PSR-SX series (the PSR-E series supports only SFF1 format). Even though Yamaha's MusicSoft website does not include the DGX-670 in their list of arranger keyboards, the styles you can purchase from them will work, although not as good as in the supported series, such as PSR-SX, due to the relatively limited number of voices.
@@Instrumental-Covers Thank you for the reply.
As to the Intro and Endings, if you can not get to them at the start or ending of a song from the panel, to me, they're useless.
As to the styles, I can't find anything that says how many styles I can download and install. With a memory of only 20MB, I could see where that would get used up really quickly.
As such, my initial comment stands, but thank you for the information.
@@GaryMCurran You are welcome. I think what you want for the intros and endings is the physical buttons like in the PSR-SX, because the instrument does have 3 of each. I can provide you with an idea of the number of styles you can install in the built-in memory: a pretty complex style such as the one found in Genos is about 60 KB. Assuming an average style size of 50 KB, you can install 20MB/50KB = 20,000 KB/50 KB = 400 additional styles. Remember that styles are not audio files, just the instructions, so with a modest memory you can install a very large number of styles. But the DGX-680 you describe would be a welcome addition.
@@Instrumental-Covers Yes, What I am looking for are the buttons on the panel. Since I mostly play live, I want to be able to do things 'on the fly', and having three buttons for each is the best way to go.
I took a quick glance through the User's Manual and the Reference Manual and I couldn't find anything about additional files I agree that 20MB would provide for a substantial number of additional styles, but are they on a User Page for styles? How much of that 20 meg is going to be available if you're using it for song sequencing?
If we're going to upgrade the upcoming -680, I just think it's easier to have all of these styles and such already loaded. My two cents.
@@GaryMCurran My understanding is that the 20 MB are for the styles, and for song sequencing you have 1MB of internal memory, with 500 records available. So, you have memory for at least 400 additional styles and 500 songs.
I think the DGX-670 is the most advanced digital piano ensemble on the market at its price point. The Korg XE20, Roland FP-E50 and Casio PX-S3100 are significantly below in terms of arranger capabilities.
For example, the Korg XE20 has the styles found in the arranger Korg PA60, which I owned when it came out around 2000... so the Korg XE20 has the old tone generator and arranger engine from a machine that is almost 25 years old. When I played the XE20 in stores, I could see the names of the styles were the same my old Korg PA60 had. Not to mention that the XE20 Italian sample doesn't have the same quality of the CFX Concert Grand sample in the DGX-670.
If Korg put in the XE21 (successor of current XE20) the arranger engine of their current PA series (let's say, the PA1000), a good speaker system (which the XE20 doesn't have), a nice large touch screen instead of the tiny old-school LCD screen, then Yamaha would probably be forced to upgrade their DGX-670. Otherwise, I think the upgrades will be more modest, as they have no incentive to produce a super machine for under $1,000 when the competition is so far behind.
Hello Woody
Thanks for the many good videos I have seen from you over the years 🙂
Sometimes they have helped me to get a good vst (Triton, Diva ect.)
I consider you as an expert on electronic instruments, so I will ask you something, that’s been on my mind for some time:
There are vst versions of almost any thinkable keyboard. Pianos, EP’s, synthesizers, workstations and more. But I have never heard of an arranger-keyboard as vst. Have you?
Just think of, how it would be to play, say, a Genos 2 vst from a well equipped midi-keyboard with weighted keys! I know, that I’m dreaming, and less could be interesting, but do you know of any, also simple, arranger-keyboard in a vst version?
Yours
Sangeet
HI Woody, I've had the Genos, The Korg Kronos, the most recent Nord Stage, The PA5x, and now the Genos 2. I can tell you that I absolutely LOVE Yamaha Genos 2! It can also play MIDI and KARaoke files. The sounds are better. My only gripe with the upgrade from Genos (original) to Genos 2 is that the acoustic guitars (G2) do too much slide / portamento (when it's not wanted). Probably a firmware or setting?
no settings for the articulations, i too find that sometimes it adds too many of the same articulations leading to it sounding repetitive and fake. but with correct playing technique may be possible to control better. congrats on the g2!
Couple of things to add. I own both keyboards. I agree that sound editing capabilities are limited at Genos2 BUT the Korg Pa5X has the full capabilities of a high end Synth workstation plus a fully implemented sampler. Not at all pretty basic sound editing as you said. And there is also a huge difference of the style capabilities! Here also Korg has the much more elaborate concept, with the opportunity to have completely different style variations for different chord types like major, minor, diminished etc. Yamaha derives ALL variations from one basic style played with a major 9 chord. Also Yamaha is much more limited in style editing than the Korg. I don't kknow if you took a look at the documentation? Yamaha 300 pages vs more than 2300 pages for Korg. Lots of the pages dedicated to sound and style programming at Korg side. So I totally disagree to your opinion that sound and styles are comparable.
For the Yamaha registrations there is NO way for replacing them with the Korg songbook as you assumed because of the very few aspects that can be saved in the Pa5X songbook compared to the Genos2 registrations. The missing seamless sound transistion on the Genos is a shame, because Yamaha knows how to do seamless sound switching in the Montage/Modx with the same AWM2/FM sound engines. The overall concept and architecture of the Korg is outdated. It is extremely hard to use and has just a renovated architecture compared to the predecessors instead of real innovation. The more modern instrument and ways easier to learn and use is the Yamaha. Overall in my opinion the Yamaha is the keyboards for players whereas the Korg is the one for Creators.
PS: I think the main focus group for both keyboards are entertainers and believe me there is absolutely nothing which the audience hates more than "a creative new interpretation" of a known title. So title specific styles are a core feature for the target audience of the keyboards.
brilliant points, thanks for adding your insights to the conversation. strangely, i did explore the sound editing capabilities of the Pa and they were nowhere near that of a synth workstation... but it was a while ago, and perhaps i didn't even reach the right page.
Most of the PA5X are specific styles and many of them are more oriented to contemporary music while Genos is more focused on that kind of music that elder people like. Although in fact the woodwinds and other acoustic in Genos 2 sounds better, PA5X is like a limitless customizable keyboard for a more professional or enthusiastic use. Caming from TYROS4 during 10 years, I'm very happy with my PA5X. But having the 2 wouldn't be a bad idea...
Did the PA5X get updated? Because I remember reading the manual when it came out to see if any interesting synthesis capabilities were in there.. and didn’t see anything close to a synth workstation
@@WagooYou probably missed something. PA5X_Muser_Manual_v12_E.pdf pages 911 through 1048 + 1469 through 1576. Even more capable than Yamaha's AWM2 and fully editable. I am not interested in discussing whether aditional sound engines would makes sense or not as long as it is possible to program almost every sound based what Korg built in.
@@cyberblade6120 so you can effectively have 160 stereo multisamples (up to 24 per note) playing at once, with 2 LFOs, pitch env, LPF & HPF filters, filer env, keyboard tracking. It looks like samples max out around 21 seconds.. then FX on top
Not that I dislike traditional samplers (eg. I have Emulator II, S1000, ASR-10, MPC, S-50 etc etc) but the sculpting abilities in that engine seem very much geared towards making a sample sound like the original instrument.. where that instrument is a violin or something
We have different definitions of what "almost every sound" comprises, as sure with a sampler you can sample any source.. but if you are sampling other synths you need to account for any complex modulation going on and the character of how that patch evolves
I think we just live in different universes still and I'd have more fun with samples in something like the Wavestate, Quantum or V-Synth. PA5X having sample reverse is nice but I'd like a lot more depth extending towards granular ideally
But I do think the sample engine in the PA5X looks suited to its target market, even if I find that to be some bizarre parallel universe most of the time. Definitely much less cheese drips off it than the Genos in general, and you could probably setup some really nice multisample layers a bit like Kontakt or such does
It's still not for me, but cheers
Whch is the song at 4min
Pls ans somebody
In my opinion both keyboards are made for different purposes. The Genos for home users and Korg for on the road and live performances.
well thanks for that! i am not sure tho, both seem equally suited for home and live.
You said that both keyboards are pretty basic in sound editing compared to a workstation. Did you get to know the built-in synthesizer during your search in the Pa5X? Support for WAV files that you can then use in 24 oscillators, multiple filters and many other synthesizer functions. I have both instruments and in my opinion the Pa5X is an Arranger Workstation and the Genos 2 is an Arranger. When I need a sound for a song I just make it myself on the Pa5X while for the Genos 2 I have to look for something that resembles it and with limited possibilities have to try to change the sound so that I come close to it.About the styles, you say that the structure of the styles is comparable but that is not the case. There are many more possibilities in creating professional styles on the Pa5X than can be made with the Genos 2. However, this is also a threshold. The learning curve is very high with the Pa5X and for most average arranger players too much of a good thing. I think that the Pa5X can be too complicated for the home user. You are bombarded with options and a manual of 2000 pages so that you do not use the options because it is too complex. I love both instruments! Talking about additional style. The Genos 2 comes with expansion packs and Korg adds styles with every update.
Hi Woody - An 88 note Piano only has 12 more notes than a Genos. That's 6 bottom and 6 top. How often do people actually use the 6 bottom 6 top notes on a piano? And the Genos has a -2 to +2 octave shift so those notes are covered on the Genos anyway.
😶Dave Price
true, i don't need the full 88 but 61 is cramped for classical and jazz, 76 is perfect compromise function and size.
An additional topic - PA 5x comes with a much better additional speaker attachment. Yamaha one is good too, but the woofer one is a pain to carry..
Hi Woody. I am following your work quite some long and really appreciate how you do it. Eventually, this is a really good comparison. I personally prefer a Genous sound, especially in sound quality. But, did you have a chance to take a look at one serious keyboard arranger, KETRON EVENT? Your point of view will be outstanding! Is it possible to have a battle between these three?
i have never even seen one in the flesh, late alone played. great though it may be, i think only a really tiny market share.
why doesn't Genos 2 have smooth transitions yet? Can that be addressed in software? Switching between different styles or patches while notes are playing is much better implemented in Korg. I love my Genos 2 and sold my PA5x if that says anything from my personal $ in these.
doubt it is easily possible in software, would probably require double processors or cpu power. definitely a weakness of the g2.
Seen a lot of positivity about the DGX, although is it similar in sound quality to the sx600 ?
The genos and pa5x certainly "sound" like a few grands worth! Loving those EP's.
dgx internals are based on the sx600 to the best of my knowledge
Thanks for the review and comparisons. Just checking, does the PA5X have a built in audio interface like the Genos 2 have ?
don't remember you will have to refer to manual or spec sheet
Is Yamaha doing a similar thing as the Tyros? We've seen five of them before the Genos came out, and is fortunately compatible with Tyros media. For some reason the Korg reminds me of a Motif or a DX7...how heavy is it?
The winner is there all along...sitting silently on the couch! But for real, it seems like the Genos, the Clavinova series, PSRs and the DGX shares a similar core engine, just packaged differently...
the pa is heavy, like 15kg, which I appreciate that solidity and sturdiness in a studio keyboard! and even if your gigging, you probably take it in the car so weight no matter...? i agree with your last comment, they all share very similar DNA
@@WoodyPianoShack The weight isn't actually that bad. Can't just put it in the usual gig bag. For the commuting gigger that can be a bit more hassle, but hey, it should survive a few knocks here and there...
If you are a past Korg owner you stick with Korg or vice versus with Yamaha due to the sets that you already have, as a Korg user it's hard to switch to a Yamaha although I have the PSR-a5000 also and the KORG pa5x, the complaints on the 5x is that previous sets that are a mix mash of different sets will sometimes get you in trouble because they are not paid and not 100 percent optimized, so the complaints are from users that have the free sets and not the paid sets that are more refined and better working, I love the 5X and sold the 4 because there is a big difference as opposed to Genos 1 and 2 which most user would not upgrade. Either instruments are great and players should not get swayed into opinions of others if you are a new user of these keyboards my 2 cents. :)
Could you please compare dgx 670 vs genos just main acoustic piano voice?
i don't have both in the studio, but most would agree the dedicated piano room mode on the DGX is superior.
I have a Genos one and have from coming from Korg products. I agree with your view.
Genos2 would be a no-brainer for anyone accustomed to Yamaha arrangers (which is, just about everyone playing arrangers the last 30+ years), but not at 4K+ euros. I could never convince myself to buy a plastic keyboard for 4K.
Do you know how many user styles you can create with the Korg Pa5x? I think it’s unlimited on the Genos
you can use a usb stick and styles take not much space, so more than you can possible ever create is my guess
I've used Yamaha arranger keyboards for many years and what I liked most was the directness of the system. The downside is that I could not create custom sounds
, styles etc. to my liking. Since last years I am using Korg arrangers which are way more flexible in that respect. It was quite a steep learning curve but it opened a world of new possibilities for me. Furthermore, Korg keyboards have far better sounding drawbars than Yamaha arranger keyboards. And btw I never had any problems with the OS of the Korg yet.
The Genos actually froze once during a performance. In my opinion the Korg is overall more suitable for live performances than the Yamaha.
Nice review. Too bad you didn't get a chance to check out the sound bar for the Korg. It's great and connects without cables.
It has as deep synth, but they need to create more graphics so it's easier to edit, nstead of looking at numbers.
Yours site for synthesizers is one of the best you are really real man😊
Great video
Do you use only factory styles/voices/acc or import your own?"
these are factory styles that I adjust by removing parts or changing sounds.
While you were talking about the PA5x and the Genos 2; I was lusting over the DGX670 beside you. Isn't she a beauty and sounds absolutely gorgeous. How would a DGX 670 with an i3 work as a pair?
Nice demo! - but what about the effects? - greetings, Levi
amazing on both, nothing to pick between them
For what about sound design the Korg is by far the king. A full synthesizer is build in with 24 oscillators.
I don't even know what to do with 24 oscillators - so you kno what i like ;-)
@@RetroGamingMusicCom Create your own retro gaming sounds 😉
@@idemditto I know i can create sounds with them but my Tyros 3 has been good enough for me... and Genos 2 will serve me good :) both are good but in their own ways.
Great review, the DGX just needs more styles and it is awesome. Yamaha is made for players, other brands are for geeks and knob turners. Yamaha is designed to be played while other brads are for spending time to figure things out in the back room. It’s either be a player or become an engineer to get things going.
that reminds me, should try and download some style packs from psrtutorial to see if they will work. thx for the comm.
This time you did it right to tell some
Of the things that is true!
Pa 5X, is behind with Os, but I’m
Sure it will
Now crush the genos, especially with the ARTIST EDITION.
Du borde dema det!
Pa5x you can’t edit the arranger in midi which is very important then convert to audio. On the Genos,.You can edit your volumes for different parts and other editing complete your arrangement after it’s all balanced convert it to audio then upload to wherever . Pa5x is a great gigging keyboard, good sounds and beats. You can only record the arranger in mp3audio which is only one trackYes it’s modern and great, great to solo on ,and very musical but not true arranger . Previous Korg were truearrangers.Genos for me is a true arranger. I have both love them both . It’s great to Be able to arrange the arranger parts in midi , upper and lower all 16 tracks then save when your happy ,and then x convert to mp3 or4. Am getting rid of pa5x .
Wow that's a dealbreaker for me. The modifying of style is very important for me! Im glad Im getting the Genos 2 (coming from Tyros 3)
Neither, you need to check out Ketron
Thank you for your honest review and amazing content.most honest review have ever been seen in all RUclips channels.thank you again for you honesty. ❤
means a lot to me, thanks for the feedback!
Ultimately the winner is the Arranger that suites you the end user.
My problem is they both suit me equally. I want 88 keys with hammer grade action, i also want the ease of use and styles of the Genos2.. I also love the brushed metal facade of the PA5X.. i just want it all. Is that really so hard?
No Ketron?
too niche I feel, korg and yamaha are the only two real contenders in this space... just my opinion.
My vote goes to the blanket!
I think you should do a community vote just for fun. I can't make out in the comments what arranger that wins according to your audience. Of course there is not a real winner. I myself is a Tyros 3 owner jusr ordered my Genos 2 just this week. I was reading up on the Korg but the Genos 2 was a better solution for me to be able to cary it arround, and of course for me to be able to use my old setup in a new environment. I have been looking at the SX series but their keybeds are not up to par when i've been using the Tyros 3 with it's FSX keyboard.
yeah, will consider doing that! although unless you have tried both, any opinion is not worth so much, perhaps? and few people have...
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes, but there is three types of votes to consider:
1. If you have tested both which is best?
2. If your buying one or have bought, which did/would you choose?
3. If you could get one of these for free what would you choose?
@@WoodyPianoShack I made my decision without testing the KORG. Just trying to read up on the Internet and comparing features.
The piano version of the Genos 2is the Yamaha CVP 900.
Korg is available with 88-key piano touch
odd-meter styles?
waltzes obviously and just the one or two 5/4, that's it
@@WoodyPianoShack that's not flagship-like
There is only one flagship arranger for me, and that name is "Woody"
it completely depends on what the taste of the sounds and accompaniments is.. you cannot achieve certain dynamics of playing with a korg and vice versa.. you cannot make a comparison with genos 1
The worst thing at the Genos is the bad performance regarding reading USB Sticks.
Hi Woody!
Hi Sergio from Brasil!
*_MUY DE BUENAS EL QUE TENGA DINERO PARA TENER SEMEJANTES MÁQUINAS DE TECLADOS, ACÁ EN COLOMBIA UNO SOLO LOS PUEDE TENER EN SUEÑOS, ESCASAMENTE SI UNO CONSIGUE LA SX900 O SX920 ES UN MILAGRO PORQUE SON MUY CARAS_*
I found Korg to be a lot more complicated and difficult to work with compared to the yamaha.
Summary:
Korg -> Balkan, Oriental
Yamaha -> Western
yeah, the korg arrangers always most popular with the world music players, it seems
Hello Woody. One area you may have missed: Technical Support, Korg UK have been brilliant over the years with their support.
fair enough, thanks for adding that to the debate
I think the pa4x was just as good as the pa5x and I hear a lot of people preferring it
For pure sound tone, No. Maybe the OS was a little more user friendly.
@@Echochamber79The players I know have sets on it and the sound is amazing much better than stock pa5x
@@charthers8903 You could argue that some tones are better "stock" tones that others but the PA5X has the ability for better sounds than the PA4X its plain and simple. The PA5X has a better DSP. Read for yourself . --- The Korg PA5X delivers superior tones compared to the PA4X due to its upgraded EDS-XP sound engine, which provides richer and more detailed instrument sounds. It has increased PCM memory, allowing for higher-quality samples and a wider variety of tones. The enhanced effects section, improved polyphony, and advanced Defined Nuance Control (DNC) technology contribute to more realistic articulations and smoother transitions. Additionally, the PA5X features a more intuitive interface for sound shaping and new high-quality presets.
@@charthers8903 Yes, and the Pa5x can do much better than PA4X with a good programming
@@eduardopereira9693Hopefully.. Haven’t heard anything that’s actually better yet
Best arranger is of course KETRON EVENT, for Sounds it's KRONOS 2 .
21:49 so less durable toy geno: build Quality instrument on korg..
The best Flagship is Ketron Event 😉
Sorry, but no.
Only korg❤
Mercedes S class vs BMW Serie 7 , witch one is better ? 😂😂😂
Korg wins
I did it i ordered a Genos 2 I must be mad….😂
not really, it is one keyboard that can do it all, so can perhaps replace a number of other keyboards!
@ yes, you’re right. I feel that it replaces a multitude of instruments. The only other thing I think I would like to have is a synth in addition.
@@WoodyPianoShack One last thing I sold a lot of my gear to pay for it lol 😂
Pa5x is more masculine. Genos is sweet.
I think that i make a mistake selling my korg pax5 . Iam thinking of buying the genos 2 but i dont know
Korg Pa5x vs Genos 2 who win?
Dgx 670 win😂
spoiler alert!! ;)
I really dug your "Return to Innocence. " 💕💫💖💜
Korg win.......
🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙉
J'anime des thés dansants pour un public qui a plus de 60 ans .. Je ne joue aucune musique moderne (pop, rap, techno, house, DJ)
J'ai changé mon Tyros 4 pour un Génos .. Erreur ! Pour jouer un rock'n'roll, un twist, un boogie, un cha-cha, une valse, un tango, une samba, une marche ... Le Génos et le Tyros 1 font la même chose ! Aucune amélioration en plus de 20 ans ! Pire, pour jouer un Bill Haley ou un chuck berry les styles d'usine jouent avec des guitares disto !!! Et quand je veux changer les guitares, des bruits bizarres apparaissent !!
Et j'imagine que le Genos 2 n'a rien amélioré dans ce domaine.
which is best? neither of those, the best is Ketron Event by a mile, a real band... ALL AUDIO...try it!!
If you like glitchy UIs. Terrible support. Freezing instruments. Sure.
@@KeybardExplorer not my case, and i have the Audya as well, Support is amazing, at least here in the USA. AJ Rocks.... all other keyboards sound "canned", try it live (Event), and then report back!!! :-)
@@KeybardExplorer
FATAR KEYBED
on the pa? interesting. it is made in italy, so seems likely.
Ketron Event Is the best !!!!!
Ketron loop no sound
@@krysbryan4749 for me the best quality of arrangements and reality of the accompanying instruments!! maybe even more modern and innovative styles... then everyone has their own tastes ..