I would LOVE to se you review the Framework 16 laptop once it comes out... Assuming that it will run linux well and the price is right, it seems to tick all the boxes!
Linux running well on a laptop is more due to the person sitting in front of the laptop itself then the laptop. All of them are still one or the other CPU brand, few different chipsets, one or the other current RAM standard and same for GPUs.
@@dbauernf Yes but the "out of the box" experience is also important... Your average user does not want to mess with complicated configurations, they just want the OS to do its job and unfortunately on linux that it still isn't always the case, especially when using "bleeding edge" hardware.
@@HAL_NOVEMILA So.. it's again a user issue.. or a OS choice issue.. I wouldn't put what you call here "your average user" in front of a Linux machine anyways. Anyways, I'm sure Framework is on top of things, I'm very confident they'll work great, and if not, be fixed very quickly.
@@dbauernf not really, stuff like making sure the igpu and gpu interact with each other properly, and QOL stuff like fingerprint readers and even newer wireless cards from say, realtek are just horrible to get working on linux, if it works at all sometimes
I love what System 76 is doing for the overall Linux ecosystem and have had my eyes on their Thelios desktops for quite some time. When they (hopefully) ship it to Europe, I might treat myself to one of those
Wendell, I had an audio issue (turns out it was my external DAC) and system 76 support team walked me thru some hidden trouble shooting features built into the laptop. super well thought out and handy stuff.
I’m glad they improved build quality of their laptops. I’ve bought Gazelle many years back with maxed out specs at that time. However, the display hinge broke completely and its fan seems to struggle with cooling, flimsy plastic case, bad trackpad, weird pixelated screen, etc. I eventually was disappointed. I think it was a rebranded version of some other basic model. I do support any company doing Linux so I’m glad to see they’ve improved. Id say lose that numpad, just keep the navigation buttons.
Hi Wendell! I love that you talked about power use and showed some tools because while I've been away from the laptop game for a while, I need one now! The tools you show to highlight power management and CPU settings are something I didn't even consider that will help me make the most of my Kubuntu install on an old machine that predates my Linux days :)
If someone from System76 is reading this, pretty please add an option to put a 16:10 aspect ratio screen in ANY of your laptops. That's literally the only thing holding me back from purchasing from you guys.
Glad to hear this laptop has what sounds like an improvement of Quality Control. I've had one of their Bonobo Extremes for a decade and wasn't absolutely thrilled with the build. What came under the hood was its saving grace but after that experience I wasn't so enthusiastic to get another unless the build improved. Thanks for this preliminary review. Although wouldn't hold it against you if you did another video with more detail and experience ... i.e. see if you still like it a couple months later 🤞 PS: Would have like to have seen coreboot for a BIOS as the Starlabs Starfighter makes available ~
Great video! I went to their factory over this past weekend for Software Freedom Day and it was awesome to see and their new laptops are amazing and the people are amazing!! I really love PopOS as well!!
I've got a previous gen Pangolin and the performance is great. However then fan developed a nasty click after a few months and I had to replace it. I'd have loved to have coreboot on it with the more open firmware so I could do stuff like customise keyboard as you can with many of the system76 intel machines. I also miss the 1 cable docking and USB-C power from my thinkpad though that was always a little bit flaky.
@@CFWhitman The proper soltution is not to buy new laptops with legacy USB Type A ports. But to put USB-C adapters on all legacy USB-A peripherals that you still have. That's what I have been doing and it works very well.
Kind of ironic that system76 has been around forever yet Framework is arguably more in line with the mission of most of the free software world. None of System76's products are designed to be repairable and they do not sell parts.
Framework has no plans for Coreboot. I think Framework is on shared #1 place with System76, but I think the 16" model went out of bounds until they release a keyboard with physical mouse buttons and trackpoint. System76 is on a great path with Rust and CosmicOS.
Because system76 not designing their own laptop, this laptop probably just rebrand some odm from china, they are more like software company who sell hardware to market their software
Nice but, these crippled slim cursor keys are a no-go for me. As a programmer i use these a lot, and thats nothing i can accept a compromise for design reasons.
The batterie is screwed in which is good. But the soldered ram, screen rez to low and not going to the bottom ridge, and the single usb C that don't allow me to dock it both side, it won't be the laptop for me. What about sleep and deep sleep ? A laptop need to be close, put in a bag, and opened back up starting immediately without losing it's charge 1h later
So happy to see a well put together AMD Linux laptop for a good price! Still waiting for the laptop with a user serviceable battery, and I don't mean one that isn't glued in...I mean you flip a latch and the battery slides out, and you slide your spare in! I miss the late 90's early 2000's just for that design philosophy.
I'll be honest, I like those for being able to carry spare batteries I guess, but I would only really want that for your powerful workstation laptops and your desktop replacements. For everything else you're either sacrificing battery size to fit into a smaller compartment or laptop size to make a larger compartment fit and it doesn't make sense when you can get a portable USB-C PD battery pack to plug into a laptop that will only draw 30W-65W. (Where your desktop replacements and powerful workstations will consume MUCH more than that, and that's where having replacement batteries makes sense, plus those are already going to be big and bulky.) Otherwise, all laptops should have batteries that can be taken out and replaced by anyone with a Phillips head screwdriver at least. More easily if possible without sacrificing capacity or portability.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 They use OEM Clevo and Tongfang laptops, the same as Slimbook, Walmart, Starlite, and literally dozens of other "manufacturers".
I also had those phantom clicks and drifting on my laptop touchpad and for a long time I couldn't figure out why... Until one day I realise that whenever I use an adapter with a ground pin it goes away, and when I use an adapter without grounding it comes back again. Maybe it's a grounding issue for this laptop as well.. Just speculating...
The Pangolin dealbreakers for me are the LCD panel is only 250 nits / 66% sRGB and the 16:9 aspect ratio. Probably the best Linux laptop for the money is the Dell XPS 15. It doesn't come with Linux on it but it works just fine.
I looked at System76 and X1 recently but it was cheaper to go second-hand Dell XPS13 (mainly due to postage and import tax). But glad the likes of System76 and Framework are still fighting for upgradability and repair. 👍
I'm also disappointed about the single USB-C port. And why does it have a barrel port for power if it's only sipping 65W? Why is that not another USB-C port? I would not buy a laptop for this much money nowadays that can't do PCIe Tunneling on at least one of its USB-C ports. It doesn't need to be certified Thunderbolt, if it's "fully-featured" USB4 (which is basically Thunderbolt without the extra Intel certification anyway, afaik) that's good enough. But it needs to be there, and officially supported. I know PCIe Tunneling can be flaky and not work properly with every device (and I don't know if that's worse on Linux compared to Windows, or not), but it should at least officially be on the device. If it doesn't work too well there's at least the _chance_ that future BIOS updates will make it work better. Also, that screen is somewhat disappointing. No OLED, okay, that's still fairly niche for laptops. But not even 16:10, because it instead has a giant bottom bezel? And at that size, QHD resolution would have been nice. I mean, if the battery life was at least amazing you could make an argument against the higher resolution (at that screen size), but it doesn't seem to be amazing either. The inside of the chassis kind of looks like there would have been more space for a slightly larger battery. At least it's not glued in, apparently - but still. In any case, seeing more laptops where Linux is a "first-class citizen" is still great! I guess especially _because_ this is fairly high-end makes the shortcomings all the more noticeable.
I am not exactly sure what is still missing for USB4 with PCIe tunneling with AMD on Linux? That's not just a System76 problem if I understood Wendel correctly that affects all AMD Linux systems right now?
It depends on if you want a 15.6 inch or a 13 inch. Because the framework laptop 16 is a lot more expensive. So if you want a 13 inch, framework is better, but if you want a 15.6 inch, system76 is better unless you need the extra power of the framework 16
When I was looking for a laptop with a glossy screen as my secondary, on-the-go machine, I have decided to buy a Windows one of a well-known manufacturer at the local store and have WSL2 installed there. Unfortunately, the selection of Linux laptops is both limited and potentially problematic in case of using a warranty service due to limited international presence of companies such as System76.
If we could get a machine down in the $500-ish range I could see myself getting one. I contemplated it until I went with a used (like new) Thinkpad T15. Pop OS is a distro I've tried, and will keep trying until it makes sense to me, as I do love where the company is going / comming from.
Imo the next step for this design would be to move their logo from the middle of the lid, which is just a bit cliché for a laptop design. That's just a nitpick though. That, and the "privacy switch" should be integrated into the top bevel just like Lenovo. It looks better, is more accessible, and you don't have to look at the side of the chassis to see if it's enabled or not.
1080p? Not 16x10? I need that vertical space for actual work. I've been waiting for somebody to come out with a screen with the aspect ratio of an Apple Laptop for a long time. We're finally just barely starting to see it happen.
Good overview, what about the keyboard? I'm still looking into System76 and Tuxedo, but as a 16+ IBM/Lenovo user, it's so hard to leave this keyboard and the absence of track point...
Really wish they had a TKL version of this like the Lemur Pro. Personally hate the feeling of typing "on the left", "not centered" when you're using a 15+ inch laptop with a numpad.
Pangolin is the most interesting laptop since Thinkpad T430. I hope in the future System76 could offer laptops without any OS pre-installed but shipping them with usb sticks which gives options for CosmicOS and RedoxOS for us minimalistic Arch + WM lovers. And having a recovery options in that same stick. And trackpoint mouses from Chicony. And their own production line in the US. System76 is making the Rust as a future for Linux. But even it wouldn't happen, I still have no fanboyism towards any other brands and wish they can grow big during these current economical times.
Great review. cool laptop. really surprised on the pricing. If it were mine, how I would aproach the operating and complementary drive set up. @12:30, I would order the 250 GB (alone), then I would get (2) 1TB M.2s, probably Seagate's, FireCuda, clone 250 GB operating disk to the FireCuda, and put that 250 GB in the parts bin.
As a normie I've found PopOS to be the best operating system I've used even though I still have to use the terminal occasionally Windows just broke too often for me (my bloodline was not meant to use technology) and years after switching it's still going strong :) Also I'm surprised this isn't a level1linux upload
@@vicmac3513 my brother in Christ I just want to play my silly little steam games and make stupid drawings I'm not gonna learn anything more than sudo update and upgrade
Tbh it's one of the best distros even for advanced users. Personal preference might change your mind over time, but Pop strikes such a good balance between new and experienced user features that I always end up wanting to come back :')
@@vicmac3513 if you want to move a file you just drag it instead of typing all that into the cli. Sure, its powerful, but not everyone needs it. The joy of linux is much more than that, like not being dependent on one vendor, having control over updates or generally control over a lot of things
Why all the hate for touchscreen? I have a nearly indestructible Lenovo 11e 2in1 with a Core m3 processor. Was cheap and I purchased it as an experiment. I found out everything works fantastic with Wayland & Gnome3! (Also, I use arch btw). I used to be skeptical about touchscreen but after using this I don't believe I could go back to a non-convertible laptop because they are far too convenient. Want to use your computer as a tablet or view portrait oriented content? Sure, simply fold the screen around. Wish you had a keyboard on your tablet to type fast for piping text in a terminal like the true greybeard you are? Oh hey look I can simply flip the screen around and I have a real physical keyboard attached! Need to connect to a TV or external monitor? Oh look hdmi! Because I find myself using it all the time I'm wanting to buy a real workhorse of a 2in1 Linux system, but the lack of a 2in1 option is the only thing stopping me from getting a system76 or a framework.
Close, but oh so far. Imagine the same attention to sofware on actual good hardware. A 16"-Laptop with 16:10 or 3:2 and 2560 Pixel Horizontal. An usable NumPad-Keyboard, not that abomination with Zero in the middle and with Navigation-Keys. And a display with reasonable bezels, especially that chin looks straight from 2004.
The base model of this beauty, without addons, is only $1,200 ... that is a fantastic price. I look forward to getting one used in a few years as I am too mobile to risk having a brand new one.
Thanks for this review. I didn't see any info about upgrading the RAM on this laptop. Also, do you have any updates on the state of Linux laptops 1.5 years later? I'm curious to know how you feel about this Pangolin now and if there are any new options you would consider. I'm considering buying my first Linux laptop at the moment.
I migrated from windows 10 to Pop! a couple of years ago and the truth is that I have no complaints. I use it on a pc with 8gb ram and a 5 year old i5 processor. The only thing I would like to know is how to install anti-malware, to cover the security part, since I installed Clam AV and a firewall but I still have that impatience of not being able to install Malwarebytes. Great video, it seems very important to me how you highlighted the issue of ssds and the camera button was a pleasant surprise.
So, did they add the ability to control the fan curves yet? If not, go load up a simple game like Creeper World 3 (via steam), play some music videos on youtube in the background, and watch what your keyboard temps do. I had one of theirs last summer (11th gen intel i7) and not only could I not adjust the fan curves without manually recompiling the BIOS every time I wanted to adjust something (which potentially voids your warranty per the tech I talked to if you manage to brick the thing), the defaults were set so the system fans don't even _turn on_ until the system hit 70C. I was very, very disappointed as the build quality and performance, along with linux support, were marvelous. I also must say their tech support and RMA setup were also very easy and pleasant to deal with. If they fix the fan curve issues so I can tune it to run cool at the expense of louder fans, I'll definitely pick up another one when my current laptop dies or becomes obsolete.
Nice laptop but I just can't see myself spending hard earned money on anything with a 1080p screen again. Personal preference but I just can't do without the extra vertical height a 1440p screen gives.
I use Pop OS on a Lenovo laptop for work. It doesn't work well with external monitors, when it goes to sleep or locks the external monitor turns off. And turning it back on while mid-use (unlocked) I find sometimes Tiled windows get stuck as little window slivers in the corner of each desktop. I usually fix it by dragging the window out or selecting it and doing some of the tiling keyboard shortcuts. But it's real annoying. But I still use the tiling windows feature every day, because it makes handling multi-desktop setups easier. It does have issues though since a window will try to fill all space available and sometimes you just don't want that. I simply segment stuff into seperate desktops to solve that (quick enough with Windows/Super + Ctrl , or Windows/Super + Shift with up and down arrows. I suspect it's not caused by the lenovo laptop, but instead ho Pop OS interfaces with monitors. I should add, this happens on all three monitors I have to test. One at my workplace that seems modern enough. One from 8 years ago (my first gaming PC monitor), and one somewhere inbetween. Still glad to see their laptop is competitive and function focused. I may have to aim for a System76 laptop for my personal laptop in the future.
I have pop-os on one of my machines and it's okay, though I wouldn't install it again because it just uses too much resources out of the box. Easy 2gb ram idle due to gnome. Trying to customize gnome is less ideal. I'd just like to have a windows-like taskbar and although there are extensions to do so, they tend to be really buggy
I know Pop!_OS has a fan base, and that's fine. I don't begrudge them. But for me personally? I've given it a spin a couple of times, and both times it pretty quickly drove me up the wall. I found it ugly, lacking features, and the user interface strange and awkward. Now I have a Thelio and a Lemur Pro, both with Linux Mint installed.
Not based in a place System76 ships to. Will wait until they internationalize their operations to buy their actual products but in the mean time, I use popOS as my daily driver on a Dell XPS 9750. Runs like a dream. Tiling is an absolute must and it is the best out-of-the-box implementation of tiling that I've seen in any platform - really well thought out and saved me the time I would have to take to setup tiling on say a KDE Plasma Desktop environment with third-party. popOS also got me around to Gnome which I really don't like in its vanilla form on Ubuntu.
I am planning to buy one from India with the help of my friend in US., But i am worried because of the quality of the build., If something goes worng, will not be able to return easily from India... What do you think about the build quality of System76 Laptops.?
I'm planning on getting one of these when I'm able. Didn't realize the construction, but that cleches the win. Definitely worth the extra couple hundred bucks. I'm a touch to click kinda guy, but those buttons under the touchpad are going to be divine for aggrevated rage clicks.
I bought a Lemur around 2016. It had a serious problem but I was a few days past the return date and they would not accept it as a return. The space bar failed to activate every few words so I had to go over text and insert spaces. Sometimes the space bar would add spaces rapidly across the screen for no reason on its own without my even touching it. The screen would dim unexpectedly at times, and the fan would come on for no reason. They sent me a replacement keyboard twice. Neither solved the problem. I was so disappointed that I finally wiped my data off it and put it downstairs in the recycle bin. Obviously, I'll never buy another laptop from System76.
Ultimate is relative. Ideal laptop to me: small and portable, 14 inch, easily replaced ram, easily replaced NVMe drive, easily replaced secondary NVME/M.2 sata drive, thin, easily replaced wifi card, E-key of course, mechanical ultra low profile keys. Headphone out, usb-c only, a port or 6. If you need a large screen you need to hook it up to an external display anyway. Speaking of which: 2 ports for external display.
Thanks... I for one think clickpads are annoying, but dual-clickpads are braindamage, since if you click in the middle of the pad you don'e even know which of the two side "buttons" it will activate. They should instead use one finger for left click, two for right click, and three for middle click, and at most it should have the single physical feedback, though I really prefer that it just reliably do what I've told it to, and then there's no need for feedback to confirm the obvious.
I would LOVE to se you review the Framework 16 laptop once it comes out... Assuming that it will run linux well and the price is right, it seems to tick all the boxes!
Linux running well on a laptop is more due to the person sitting in front of the laptop itself then the laptop. All of them are still one or the other CPU brand, few different chipsets, one or the other current RAM standard and same for GPUs.
@@dbauernf Yes but the "out of the box" experience is also important... Your average user does not want to mess with complicated configurations, they just want the OS to do its job and unfortunately on linux that it still isn't always the case, especially when using "bleeding edge" hardware.
@@HAL_NOVEMILA So.. it's again a user issue.. or a OS choice issue.. I wouldn't put what you call here "your average user" in front of a Linux machine anyways. Anyways, I'm sure Framework is on top of things, I'm very confident they'll work great, and if not, be fixed very quickly.
@@dbauernf not really, stuff like making sure the igpu and gpu interact with each other properly, and QOL stuff like fingerprint readers and even newer wireless cards from say, realtek are just horrible to get working on linux, if it works at all sometimes
Traditionally you'd swap out the realtek nic for intel and be good. I'm not expecting coreboot but that would be the ultimate sign of support
I have the Pangolin and it is a great laptop and the performance and battery life is great...
I love what System 76 is doing for the overall Linux ecosystem and have had my eyes on their Thelios desktops for quite some time. When they (hopefully) ship it to Europe, I might treat myself to one of those
There are forwarding services that could ship from the USA to you, but it'd probably be more expensive
I wish Thelio had front ports (USB c, a and headphone Jack)… and also that the motherboard cutout was changeable for future upgrades.
Whichever vendor releases AMD laptops with ECC memory support first has my vote.
Wendell, I had an audio issue (turns out it was my external DAC) and system 76 support team walked me thru some hidden trouble shooting features built into the laptop. super well thought out and handy stuff.
I’m glad they improved build quality of their laptops. I’ve bought Gazelle many years back with maxed out specs at that time. However, the display hinge broke completely and its fan seems to struggle with cooling, flimsy plastic case, bad trackpad, weird pixelated screen, etc. I eventually was disappointed. I think it was a rebranded version of some other basic model. I do support any company doing Linux so I’m glad to see they’ve improved. Id say lose that numpad, just keep the navigation buttons.
yeah I wasn't impressed with the on I fot.
Hi Wendell! I love that you talked about power use and showed some tools because while I've been away from the laptop game for a while, I need one now! The tools you show to highlight power management and CPU settings are something I didn't even consider that will help me make the most of my Kubuntu install on an old machine that predates my Linux days :)
I would love to see how Framework 16 works with Linux
Great overview Wendell - thanks! You are looking great too - congrats.
If someone from System76 is reading this, pretty please add an option to put a 16:10 aspect ratio screen in ANY of your laptops. That's literally the only thing holding me back from purchasing from you guys.
8:5
Glad to hear this laptop has what sounds like an improvement of Quality Control. I've had one of their Bonobo Extremes for a decade and wasn't absolutely thrilled with the build. What came under the hood was its saving grace but after that experience I wasn't so enthusiastic to get another unless the build improved. Thanks for this preliminary review. Although wouldn't hold it against you if you did another video with more detail and experience ... i.e. see if you still like it a couple months later 🤞
PS: Would have like to have seen coreboot for a BIOS as the Starlabs Starfighter makes available ~
The HDMI port is handy for those rare times you need to plug into a projector or TV and you didn't bring your dongles.
I was a day-one buy of the Pangolin. Ended up having to return it due to to many hardware issues. :(
13:03 AMD's PCIE tunneling will work only on USB 4 type C. Currently the USB C port on Pangolin is only 3.2 Gen 2
Great video! I went to their factory over this past weekend for Software Freedom Day and it was awesome to see and their new laptops are amazing and the people are amazing!! I really love PopOS as well!!
The only thing and it's personal taste, a 16:10 or 3:2 display would be a nice System76.
This right here. That's one reason why I went Framework. I can't stand 16 : 9 anymore.
I've got a previous gen Pangolin and the performance is great. However then fan developed a nasty click after a few months and I had to replace it. I'd have loved to have coreboot on it with the more open firmware so I could do stuff like customise keyboard as you can with many of the system76 intel machines. I also miss the 1 cable docking and USB-C power from my thinkpad though that was always a little bit flaky.
Type A ports are just objectively worse in every way.
@@kwinzman Well, yes, but subjectively, there is a lot of USB A hardware out there.
@@CFWhitman The proper soltution is not to buy new laptops with legacy USB Type A ports. But to put USB-C adapters on all legacy USB-A peripherals that you still have. That's what I have been doing and it works very well.
Classy review, loved the Swiss knife. Owning a Linux laptop like this would blow my mind.
Hope you enjoy your new machine!
Kind of ironic that system76 has been around forever yet Framework is arguably more in line with the mission of most of the free software world. None of System76's products are designed to be repairable and they do not sell parts.
Worse than apple
@Walczyk what is? Framework? If so, why?
Framework has no plans for Coreboot. I think Framework is on shared #1 place with System76, but I think the 16" model went out of bounds until they release a keyboard with physical mouse buttons and trackpoint.
System76 is on a great path with Rust and CosmicOS.
Because system76 not designing their own laptop, this laptop probably just rebrand some odm from china, they are more like software company who sell hardware to market their software
@@adiirfan01 would it be ridiculous for them to partner together? System76 for framework.
Well done review. Thanks!
Nice but, these crippled slim cursor keys are a no-go for me. As a programmer i use these a lot, and thats nothing i can accept a compromise for design reasons.
sadly it seems like almost every laptop out there has adopted this abomination.
Wendell it looks like you've lost weight! You're looking healthy and I love to see it!
Cant believe 16:10 isnt the standard though, look at all the bottom bezel that could be screen...
The batterie is screwed in which is good.
But the soldered ram, screen rez to low and not going to the bottom ridge, and the single usb C that don't allow me to dock it both side, it won't be the laptop for me.
What about sleep and deep sleep ? A laptop need to be close, put in a bag, and opened back up starting immediately without losing it's charge 1h later
Sleep on this was the best Linux laptop I've ever had. It could easily sleep for a day or two without issue
You can just make out the MICRO CENTER logo for a second as the focus lands on that 16Gb USB. Makes me smile.
So happy to see a well put together AMD Linux laptop for a good price!
Still waiting for the laptop with a user serviceable battery, and I don't mean one that isn't glued in...I mean you flip a latch and the battery slides out, and you slide your spare in! I miss the late 90's early 2000's just for that design philosophy.
I'll be honest, I like those for being able to carry spare batteries I guess, but I would only really want that for your powerful workstation laptops and your desktop replacements. For everything else you're either sacrificing battery size to fit into a smaller compartment or laptop size to make a larger compartment fit and it doesn't make sense when you can get a portable USB-C PD battery pack to plug into a laptop that will only draw 30W-65W. (Where your desktop replacements and powerful workstations will consume MUCH more than that, and that's where having replacement batteries makes sense, plus those are already going to be big and bulky.)
Otherwise, all laptops should have batteries that can be taken out and replaced by anyone with a Phillips head screwdriver at least. More easily if possible without sacrificing capacity or portability.
If only the screen was 16:10. Also aren't these just clevo laptops?
Good to see that Clevo has improved their quality
I sold Clevo (Mecer) thirty years ago and never had comebacks on any of them.
Consider Tuxedo next time round, German company with 14" tb4, and all the top specs, aluminium build et.
Getting a Tuxedo outside of Europe is kinda difficult. They don't really do business here so it's a special import from the U.K.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 They use OEM Clevo and Tongfang laptops, the same as Slimbook, Walmart, Starlite, and literally dozens of other "manufacturers".
@@user-nu5ib2ri9oStarLabs now makes their own chassis, which don't have dGPUs and are often out of date.
I also had those phantom clicks and drifting on my laptop touchpad and for a long time I couldn't figure out why... Until one day I realise that whenever I use an adapter with a ground pin it goes away, and when I use an adapter without grounding it comes back again. Maybe it's a grounding issue for this laptop as well.. Just speculating...
if it's RF related as he says then proper grounding vastly improves shielding
@@stephen1r2 Oh! That actually makes sense!
The Pangolin dealbreakers for me are the LCD panel is only 250 nits / 66% sRGB and the 16:9 aspect ratio. Probably the best Linux laptop for the money is the Dell XPS 15. It doesn't come with Linux on it but it works just fine.
same here. I think I'll go over to tuxedocomputers.
Too bad it's no longer made...
The Yoga braided hinges were a nightmare. Saw so many units come in with displays failing all cause the metal hinges were fraying the cables.
Great review. I'm hoping to get one of these, looks like the perfect laptop for me.
The Thunderbolt omission is such a bummer. I have a Dell WD19TB and would hate to lose that convenience. Maybe they'll fix it in the next generation.
I looked at System76 and X1 recently but it was cheaper to go second-hand Dell XPS13 (mainly due to postage and import tax).
But glad the likes of System76 and Framework are still fighting for upgradability and repair. 👍
I have the system 76 pangolin and It's freakn awesome, so much power.
little surprised you didnt wait for the framework 16 but if you didnt know of its incoming then i understand
I'm also disappointed about the single USB-C port. And why does it have a barrel port for power if it's only sipping 65W? Why is that not another USB-C port?
I would not buy a laptop for this much money nowadays that can't do PCIe Tunneling on at least one of its USB-C ports. It doesn't need to be certified Thunderbolt, if it's "fully-featured" USB4 (which is basically Thunderbolt without the extra Intel certification anyway, afaik) that's good enough. But it needs to be there, and officially supported. I know PCIe Tunneling can be flaky and not work properly with every device (and I don't know if that's worse on Linux compared to Windows, or not), but it should at least officially be on the device. If it doesn't work too well there's at least the _chance_ that future BIOS updates will make it work better.
Also, that screen is somewhat disappointing. No OLED, okay, that's still fairly niche for laptops. But not even 16:10, because it instead has a giant bottom bezel? And at that size, QHD resolution would have been nice. I mean, if the battery life was at least amazing you could make an argument against the higher resolution (at that screen size), but it doesn't seem to be amazing either.
The inside of the chassis kind of looks like there would have been more space for a slightly larger battery. At least it's not glued in, apparently - but still.
In any case, seeing more laptops where Linux is a "first-class citizen" is still great! I guess especially _because_ this is fairly high-end makes the shortcomings all the more noticeable.
I am not exactly sure what is still missing for USB4 with PCIe tunneling with AMD on Linux? That's not just a System76 problem if I understood Wendel correctly that affects all AMD Linux systems right now?
Damn when did wendel get so fit ? He looks so good dude must be putting in that work
He got bit by a tick and he can no longer have meat and animal products.
@@SethReee awwwww
@@SethReee I am kind of worried about his diet when he off visiting tiwan. I hope everything works out
Damn. I feel torn between System76 and Framework. System76 definitely has a more well-established history. This laptop is absolutely awesome.
Throw in Tuxedo Computers.
It depends on if you want a 15.6 inch or a 13 inch. Because the framework laptop 16 is a lot more expensive. So if you want a 13 inch, framework is better, but if you want a 15.6 inch, system76 is better unless you need the extra power of the framework 16
When I was looking for a laptop with a glossy screen as my secondary, on-the-go machine, I have decided to buy a Windows one of a well-known manufacturer at the local store and have WSL2 installed there. Unfortunately, the selection of Linux laptops is both limited and potentially problematic in case of using a warranty service due to limited international presence of companies such as System76.
WSL2 is great
If we could get a machine down in the $500-ish range I could see myself getting one. I contemplated it until I went with a used (like new) Thinkpad T15. Pop OS is a distro I've tried, and will keep trying until it makes sense to me, as I do love where the company is going / comming from.
Imo the next step for this design would be to move their logo from the middle of the lid, which is just a bit cliché for a laptop design. That's just a nitpick though.
That, and the "privacy switch" should be integrated into the top bevel just like Lenovo. It looks better, is more accessible, and you don't have to look at the side of the chassis to see if it's enabled or not.
Cool laptop, nice overview
I was kinda looking at this one a bit ago but they can't disable amd psp like they can with intel's ime
1080p? Not 16x10? I need that vertical space for actual work.
I've been waiting for somebody to come out with a screen with the aspect ratio of an Apple Laptop for a long time.
We're finally just barely starting to see it happen.
1080p non-configurable is a BIG BIG turnoff for me. Maybe I can live with it on a smaller laptop, but it's a dealbreaker on a 15'' device.
Just to clarify, I daily drive EndeavourOS KDE, and 1440p (or ideally, 1600p on 16:10) is my preferred resolution all the way from 12'' to 16''.
Tuxedo Pulse 15 is the same thing, but with a bigger battery, faster CPU, and a touchpad that is not shifted to the side of the palm rest.
Undecided between the System76 and the Pulse Gen2. I reside in the US so shipping and support with the Tuxedo would be meh I'd say.
@@itsloganbtw5355And keyboard layout.
System76 makes a really solid keyboard too.
7:59 editing mistake I think, you may have spliced in something about the screen refresh rate after talking about the touchpad click thing
Good overview, what about the keyboard? I'm still looking into System76 and Tuxedo, but as a 16+ IBM/Lenovo user, it's so hard to leave this keyboard and the absence of track point...
I'm also puzzled why few laptop models feature trackpoint. Much better than touchpad
This is an ideal laptop for Linux but the major thing it is missing is usb4 that is the only major let down with this device sadly.
Haven’t watched this channel in a while and I’ll say the first thought I had was “damn, looking FIT man!”
Really wish they had a TKL version of this like the Lemur Pro. Personally hate the feeling of typing "on the left", "not centered" when you're using a 15+ inch laptop with a numpad.
Pangolin is the most interesting laptop since Thinkpad T430. I hope in the future System76 could offer laptops without any OS pre-installed but shipping them with usb sticks which gives options for CosmicOS and RedoxOS for us minimalistic Arch + WM lovers. And having a recovery options in that same stick. And trackpoint mouses from Chicony. And their own production line in the US. System76 is making the Rust as a future for Linux.
But even it wouldn't happen, I still have no fanboyism towards any other brands and wish they can grow big during these current economical times.
Yeah that's sadly a deal breaker for a laptop without a trackpoint
Great review. cool laptop. really surprised on the pricing.
If it were mine, how I would aproach the operating and complementary drive set up. @12:30, I would order the 250 GB (alone), then I would get (2) 1TB M.2s, probably Seagate's, FireCuda, clone 250 GB operating disk to the FireCuda, and put that 250 GB in the parts bin.
Looks nice. I'll stick to off-lease dirt cheap thinkpads in the 2-3 year old range when they bottom out the price curve on ebay.
i miss the old system76 boxes
As a normie I've found PopOS to be the best operating system I've used even though I still have to use the terminal occasionally
Windows just broke too often for me (my bloodline was not meant to use technology) and years after switching it's still going strong :)
Also I'm surprised this isn't a level1linux upload
He's trying to suck the non-initiated into Linux. 🤓
The joy of Linux is terminal. GUI is bloat. Drive yourself into cli with -f flags and your surely learn why terminal is better than GUI.
@@vicmac3513 my brother in Christ I just want to play my silly little steam games and make stupid drawings I'm not gonna learn anything more than sudo update and upgrade
Tbh it's one of the best distros even for advanced users. Personal preference might change your mind over time, but Pop strikes such a good balance between new and experienced user features that I always end up wanting to come back :')
@@vicmac3513 if you want to move a file you just drag it instead of typing all that into the cli. Sure, its powerful, but not everyone needs it. The joy of linux is much more than that, like not being dependent on one vendor, having control over updates or generally control over a lot of things
04:13: The only option I see on the system76 page is 5500MHz RAM. That is disappointing. Where is my 6400MHz option?
will it run openindiana for enterprise users? melivn was the robot in the hitch hiker uide to the galaxey...mervin must be the next generation ?
Why all the hate for touchscreen? I have a nearly indestructible Lenovo 11e 2in1 with a Core m3 processor. Was cheap and I purchased it as an experiment. I found out everything works fantastic with Wayland & Gnome3! (Also, I use arch btw). I used to be skeptical about touchscreen but after using this I don't believe I could go back to a non-convertible laptop because they are far too convenient. Want to use your computer as a tablet or view portrait oriented content? Sure, simply fold the screen around. Wish you had a keyboard on your tablet to type fast for piping text in a terminal like the true greybeard you are? Oh hey look I can simply flip the screen around and I have a real physical keyboard attached! Need to connect to a TV or external monitor? Oh look hdmi! Because I find myself using it all the time I'm wanting to buy a real workhorse of a 2in1 Linux system, but the lack of a 2in1 option is the only thing stopping me from getting a system76 or a framework.
I got pretty nervous seeing Wendel "working" that box with the knive...
Close, but oh so far. Imagine the same attention to sofware on actual good hardware. A 16"-Laptop with 16:10 or 3:2 and 2560 Pixel Horizontal. An usable NumPad-Keyboard, not that abomination with Zero in the middle and with Navigation-Keys. And a display with reasonable bezels, especially that chin looks straight from 2004.
Really wish Pop! OS would have Secure Boot... the laptop looks fantastic. I am excited to see the Framework 16 come out.
The base model of this beauty, without addons, is only $1,200 ... that is a fantastic price. I look forward to getting one used in a few years as I am too mobile to risk having a brand new one.
1080p? I didn’t think anyone used that any more. Can these be ordered with 4k displays?
15:42 what's this samsung SSD firmware thing about?
Thanks for this review. I didn't see any info about upgrading the RAM on this laptop. Also, do you have any updates on the state of Linux laptops 1.5 years later? I'm curious to know how you feel about this Pangolin now and if there are any new options you would consider. I'm considering buying my first Linux laptop at the moment.
Which knife is that? 12:42
I migrated from windows 10 to Pop! a couple of years ago and the truth is that I have no complaints. I use it on a pc with 8gb ram and a 5 year old i5 processor.
The only thing I would like to know is how to install anti-malware, to cover the security part, since I installed Clam AV and a firewall but I still have that impatience of not being able to install Malwarebytes.
Great video, it seems very important to me how you highlighted the issue of ssds and the camera button was a pleasant surprise.
So, did they add the ability to control the fan curves yet? If not, go load up a simple game like Creeper World 3 (via steam), play some music videos on youtube in the background, and watch what your keyboard temps do. I had one of theirs last summer (11th gen intel i7) and not only could I not adjust the fan curves without manually recompiling the BIOS every time I wanted to adjust something (which potentially voids your warranty per the tech I talked to if you manage to brick the thing), the defaults were set so the system fans don't even _turn on_ until the system hit 70C. I was very, very disappointed as the build quality and performance, along with linux support, were marvelous. I also must say their tech support and RMA setup were also very easy and pleasant to deal with. If they fix the fan curve issues so I can tune it to run cool at the expense of louder fans, I'll definitely pick up another one when my current laptop dies or becomes obsolete.
This is resolved, I think. And this system is way less hot than the Intel config, sounds like
Like to see this with tuxedo and framework
Nice laptop but I just can't see myself spending hard earned money on anything with a 1080p screen again. Personal preference but I just can't do without the extra vertical height a 1440p screen gives.
I use Pop OS on a Lenovo laptop for work.
It doesn't work well with external monitors, when it goes to sleep or locks the external monitor turns off. And turning it back on while mid-use (unlocked) I find sometimes Tiled windows get stuck as little window slivers in the corner of each desktop. I usually fix it by dragging the window out or selecting it and doing some of the tiling keyboard shortcuts.
But it's real annoying. But I still use the tiling windows feature every day, because it makes handling multi-desktop setups easier. It does have issues though since a window will try to fill all space available and sometimes you just don't want that. I simply segment stuff into seperate desktops to solve that (quick enough with Windows/Super + Ctrl , or Windows/Super + Shift with up and down arrows.
I suspect it's not caused by the lenovo laptop, but instead ho Pop OS interfaces with monitors. I should add, this happens on all three monitors I have to test. One at my workplace that seems modern enough. One from 8 years ago (my first gaming PC monitor), and one somewhere inbetween.
Still glad to see their laptop is competitive and function focused. I may have to aim for a System76 laptop for my personal laptop in the future.
What is still missing for USB4 with PCIe tunneling with AMD on Linux?
Was the decision for 1080P to save on battery?
I'm curious the smoothness in DaVinci Resolve Studio with this machine.
I have pop-os on one of my machines and it's okay, though I wouldn't install it again because it just uses too much resources out of the box. Easy 2gb ram idle due to gnome. Trying to customize gnome is less ideal. I'd just like to have a windows-like taskbar and although there are extensions to do so, they tend to be really buggy
I am very curious what System76 is feeling with Framework coming in as hot as they have been...
I know Pop!_OS has a fan base, and that's fine. I don't begrudge them. But for me personally? I've given it a spin a couple of times, and both times it pretty quickly drove me up the wall. I found it ugly, lacking features, and the user interface strange and awkward. Now I have a Thelio and a Lemur Pro, both with Linux Mint installed.
Not based in a place System76 ships to. Will wait until they internationalize their operations to buy their actual products but in the mean time, I use popOS as my daily driver on a Dell XPS 9750. Runs like a dream.
Tiling is an absolute must and it is the best out-of-the-box implementation of tiling that I've seen in any platform - really well thought out and saved me the time I would have to take to setup tiling on say a KDE Plasma Desktop environment with third-party. popOS also got me around to Gnome which I really don't like in its vanilla form on Ubuntu.
I am planning to buy one from India with the help of my friend in US., But i am worried because of the quality of the build., If something goes worng, will not be able to return easily from India... What do you think about the build quality of System76 Laptops.?
Have a review of the Meerkat mini PC?
Are there no Nordic layout for the keyboard?
Will you be doing a review of the amd version of the framework laptop for linux? And the 16 in laptop?
0:57 That is 100% not your average viewer demographic.
He goes right for the jugular at 0:35
I'm planning on getting one of these when I'm able.
Didn't realize the construction, but that cleches the win. Definitely worth the extra couple hundred bucks.
I'm a touch to click kinda guy, but those buttons under the touchpad are going to be divine for aggrevated rage clicks.
after watching serial experiments lain i'm starting to notice it everywhere
nice pfp 👍
I bought a Lemur around 2016. It had a serious problem but I was a few days past the return date and they would not accept it as a return.
The space bar failed to activate every few words so I had to go over text and insert spaces.
Sometimes the space bar would add spaces rapidly across the screen for no reason on its own without my even touching it.
The screen would dim unexpectedly at times, and the fan would come on for no reason.
They sent me a replacement keyboard twice. Neither solved the problem.
I was so disappointed that I finally wiped my data off it and put it downstairs in the recycle bin.
Obviously, I'll never buy another laptop from System76.
What do you think of the frameworks laptops?
But will you keep Pop OS?
Ultimate is relative.
Ideal laptop to me: small and portable, 14 inch, easily replaced ram, easily replaced NVMe drive, easily replaced secondary NVME/M.2 sata drive, thin, easily replaced wifi card, E-key of course, mechanical ultra low profile keys. Headphone out, usb-c only, a port or 6.
If you need a large screen you need to hook it up to an external display anyway. Speaking of which: 2 ports for external display.
Wouldve liked to have your opinion on the Thinkpad T series. The yoga is... I dunno.. still consumer crap despite it being a Thinkpad line
Expected that envelope to have at least a driver CD... What kind of world do we live in now 😂
I'm surprised you didn't buy a Framework. Did you consider a Framework? If so, why did you decide not to use it?
Please do a dedicated video to the eGPU setup!
Thanks... I for one think clickpads are annoying, but dual-clickpads are braindamage, since if you click in the middle of the pad you don'e even know which of the two side "buttons" it will activate. They should instead use one finger for left click, two for right click, and three for middle click, and at most it should have the single physical feedback, though I really prefer that it just reliably do what I've told it to, and then there's no need for feedback to confirm the obvious.
Than on/off switch sure beats my post it note over my macbook pro's webcam.
needs a non 1080p display option, would probably put manjaro on it too
What about the Starlabs starfighter laptop?