great, you showed the 'before' and 'after' situation. usually we only see people doing things, but never the effect. Interesting and helpful. thank you
I really enjoyed these videos. It would be really interesting to see how it looks after 5 years. Do you have any plans to go back? A long term video would be really useful to show people that it works. All the best.
As a social worker/community developer loving rural areas, this really excites me. Your work would really muster faith in self-reliance in a rural community.
When I saw how much MORE water he had in his well after 5 months I was amazed. I can finally say now that I believe that this process will work on my own land where my well has been devastated by deep bore wells all around me.
Very,very interesting to follow this project!!Lovely to follow the digging of the swales to see the drawing materialise!Thank you for giving your experience to the world…great education.A kind of learning by doing,even I just watch your video,easy!🤪I feel my courage piling up ,so I might get to realise some swales on my fields…! Sincerely hope for more videos from your hands…good luck with everything! :)
I live outside tacoma and we have lots of rain, but we have fire's for about three months. If I do this the water content of the soil would increase and effectively help water my trees so it's not so dry. Thank you for the video.
+The Natural Farmer Thanks for the update! It would be interesting to see how it's doing this monsoon. I'd be especially interested to see if the overflow pipe is causing erosion on the backside of the tank berm. In my experience, it's best to get the overflow discharge away from the berm (so it doesn't erode the structure, particularly on the down-slope side, where a blowout would be very bad) and to pacify/ spread the discharge as soon as possible. I'd also be interested to know if the inlet pipe clogs. Based on the design you drew, I'd expected the swale just to flow into the tank and potentially to act as the overflow.
Good feedback. This was a difficult project - from the people side. Normally I would only work with a level-sill overflow spillway, planted with grass to prevent erosion. The system you see in this video was they way they do it locally. I actually wasn't present when they added this. It was a good lesson for me - maintain control of the project from beginning to end.... Yes, the design had the swale filling first, overflowing into the recharge pond, then backfilling across the swale and overflowing to the lower boundary swale. But as I said, many details were lost on this project. I'm in Sicily now. I have the possibility of making additional swales here, complete with food forest plantings. This is the plan. The rain comes here in October. I hope to create a new system here and make a new video on the subject. It will be much easier, I think, just by the fact that I'll have more control over what actually gets carried out. Nevertheless, the system shown in this present videos works. This goes to show - even a badly executed system can harvest water. Now it just needs to be redesigned a bit to function optimally. We may have an opportunity to do this in January... I'll see if I can get someone to take photos now, during monsoon. We'll see how it's holding up.
That is where most projects fail or in these cases yield less then was hoped or anticipated, It is always hard to direct projects where the outcome is over such a large time frame and then handing off to other people. You achieved many of the goals you set out with. There is still a certain level where people themselves need to continue to the end result otherwise they will always count the things that did not last or work properly when some of the major components like the erosion measures were never put in place, IE the Trees to the Swales to stabilize them. When we step forward to help or improve something then there is never a failure, But you cannot be expected to do everything and gift it to everyone as that is also not sustainable. Some only dream of change and others like you boldly take up the challenge and do the best they can. I am a Horseman with sound systems in place, If I take a terrified and upset Horses and I improve them 1 % each day in one hundred days they are perfect !!!!!!!!!!!!!! now I am very good at what I do so I never expect every day to be perfect just like in nature, But if everything I do is from the Heart with strong Moral content then I improve the world around me and those I can help and that is My message to you, Stay true to your path and the rest will fill in around you and you will always draw those in need that you can help and those that you can't fully get them to where you hoped they would get to, you draw solace from the fact that you improved things and at least showed the possibilities. Stay well and stay Blessed
Very nice work!! Even from the video, I get vertigo looking down over the edge of the well. :-S This is a great project. You should be very proud of the work you've completed. I'm glad I found your channel
+Tim Flood Thank you for the nice comment. Yes, it felt very good to see these results and to know that things can be turned around...Glad you're here!
@@TheNaturalFarmer You well deserve that it worked, as it was cleverly designed. This said, there is something I don't understand : When using the pond/infiltration pit near the well, how do you know it will recharge the well? How do you know there is an impervious layer going under the whole subsurface of both the well and the pond? Maybe there is fractured rock between the 2, and water will just get lost at super deep depths with no benefit for the well? Thankfully it wasn't so, but how did you know in advance? Anyxay amazing work as always.
@@o00oZu1o00o In my experience, earthworks are a bit like going on a journey. We plan the best we can, but then we have to just jump in and hope for the best. Other than that, I don't know what to say...
Hi john, I work all over South america with family in Chile. I am from Tamil Nadu state. I plan to go back to my native arid zone and work on land in permaculture and Miyawaki tree growing tecniques in 6 acres of land. Basically retired man 67, very healthy and active, giving back to the land by taking care of it. Can u give the contact dtls of this project, i wld like to visit and see their progress, after Covid is over. Shall appreciate..
Thanks for the update, Jagannath! Good to see that it worked out that well. There will always be adjustments to do as the time goes with nature. And that's the way we all learn to do things better next season. :-)
Hi. Great channel. thanks for the learning curve and the confidence to know if one can see or learn to see and respect nature's patterns and rhythms one can implement a plan to live more harmoniously and less exploitively. I am curious, though not sure if you still see these comments, four years later have you kept in touch with the farmer or received word of how the project has evolved? Hope that you do see this i am curious what 4 years later looks like of water management in the tropics as i am in southern tropical Mexico. Saludos
Good questions. Two years ago I wrote to the organization I used to work for in Kerala, asking how things were progressing with the farmer's well, but I did not receive a response. I'll keep trying. It would be nice to make a video on the results after 4 or 5 years.
Hi John, please help advise how i can manage water in the soil in dry season. I am in the south eastern of Vietnam, we have 6-6 month of rain & dry climate, my land is kind of rocky soil - with tiny rocks in it, not much top soil due to wrong farming before we bought this. About 40-50cm deep there are bigger rock and soil drain too fast, it does not hold water very well. In the rain season there is no problem but in dry season. I have been watching your videos for the tropics and thinking of digging deep contours along the land to fill with organic matter to help hold the water in the long run as well as improving the soil the way you showed in the videos. One more thing is that in the dry season we have a well with water fed by rice fill beside (water from a damp near the rice fill). Many thanks in advance
Your question requires more than a simple response on RUclips. I would suggest that you take my upcoming Natural Farming course. I speak about these types of things, as well as how to design for this..... www.johnkaisner.com/
+The Natural Farmer I like your perspective on expecting to modify your plan. I think that gives a better point to work from and allows for more creativity when planning.
The Natural Farmer Do you have any recommendations to learn more about natural farming techniques - courses, books or otherwise? I also want to say I applaud the inspirational work you are doing in India and wish you the best with your continued efforts.
For natural farming I would recommend reading the book One Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka. See how you like that and get back to me. We'll be having courses in the future...
The Natural Farmer I finished reading the book you recommended over the weekend - which I thoroughly enjoyed. I was left with some questions about how you reconcile contributing inputs and for how long while using the Natural Farming Method as well as some questions about the differences between Fukuoka's Method vs Permaculture. Do you have an email you could send me to further discuss?
I see a lot of Parthenium weed on the land where the water recharging project was done. Can Parthenium be considered as good biomass for mulching and building soil?
Probably. For tree systems the best biomass is pioneer species nitrogen fixers, of course. Woody material, nitrogen, biomass, leaves. I don't know about the Parthenium. That's a very good question...
Parthenium weed has a lot of negative effects than the positives. Cons: 1. It reproduces faster than any other weed, if not removed they would cover up the entire farmlands in a months time. It literally covers up the land in a way that no other plants would grow around it. 2. Many people are allergic to its smell. Myself included. if come into contact it causes skin allergies like rashes and could also cause sinus problems( i would sneeze myself into oblivion ). I really hate that weed. Proof: I'm a farmer from the same state(Tamil Nadu) and we are trying hard to control this weed. Herbicides have little to no effect on this weed. Only high dose chemical herbicides kill this plant and those chemicals would kill the soil organisms. And I would not recommend that. We always try uprooting them as much as possible. Whenever I see this plant I uproot it. There's no other way. TL:DR;- No. Parthenium is evil.
Someone is checking on all of that now. When I left India he had still never planted trees on the berm. In this kind of work you will discover that you can design and implement works, but perhaps still not be able to get people to listen to you and finish the design. That's been my experience anyway. It's different when you have a paying client. They tend to listen more....
Should be a month or two more until the monsoon season, no? I wonder if you all are figuring on restructuring the swales and planting them up this time.
+mrd05d Monsoon in Kerala is normally around June 1st. But I'm currently traveling, so I won't be there. Will most likely return to India toward the end of 2016...
Yes, it's possible. But that type of large-scale work would most likely require government support, be it local or higher. Creating effective gabion systems along a seasonal riverbed, such as the one seen in the video, takes design and real commitment of resources and energy.
Wow great work. I was following both the videos. But ya no point right, no trees and no vegetations, how will the ponds and trenches will be helpful for the farmer. Now it's 5 yrs and hv you contacted the farmer abt how good his well. I am farmer from mountain, I too dig a open well 8 yrs back and now since I grew more trees in my farm, the well keep filling with more water and actually less rain this yr. Anyways it's a nice learning, like to learn more from you. Thank you for the share, at the right time, since gone start a new project on food forest almost 100kms from this site I believe. Hope you will share your experience.😊
I so wish that your permaculture design plan was implemented in full with all details to the end……This could have been incredible…… you gave so much too…….
Thanks for the video. I wanted to know the depth and width of the swale, any sizing formula for this. What would be the ideal height of the spill way from the swale into the pond. Are swales connected using spillways? I plan to put in forest trees on my flat irrigated land spaced 35 ft between rows and 15 ft between trees with shrubs in between trees. I was planning at putting in swales to irrigate the rows of trees and connect ponds and swales using spillways. Since the land is pretty flat should i bother finding a contour for putting in the swale. I plan to cultivate between these tree rows. let me know your views.
Flat land is pretty forgiving. It's pretty easy to manipulate the swale level on flat land. But I still measure contour. Even "flat" land is not flat. It still has a harmonic pattern. I like to respect that. I've had times when I haven't and the "flat" land refound its old harmonics. Then I was fighting against it... Your spacing between swales sounds good. You can probably go closer with the trees, depending on the species. You may want to add some layers of chop and drop nitrogen-fixing pioneer species as well. This creates fast carbon pathways and stabilizes the plant succession. You can also add some food if you want. Is it very far from where you live?
Thank you for your kind response. Yes this land is quite far from where i live. I plan to put in pigeon pea between the tall forest trees (neem, teak, melia dubia) and horse gram at the foot of the trees. Since i need ample sunlight i plan to put in tall trees.This land i plan to cultivate finger millet, groundnut, blackgram, ginger and vegetables. There is another rain fed land we have close to the village, this has fruit trees, pigeon peas and moringa tree for nitrogen fixing. Please tell me the sizing (depth : width) for a swale, should the depth touch the subsoil? Would 0.5 ft depth from the land surface be the ideal depth of a spillway?
Sounds perfect Satish. You already understand all the plants to use and how to use them. Very good my friend. Do you know how to measure the inclination of the land where you hope to place the swales? (you can use a water level and measure the "drop" per linear meter....) Swale shape depends on the grade of the land.
I have a question. I can lead water to walls of my concrete well, water that now is being discharged and wasted. But I don't have space to put a pond. Is it necessary?
Very instructive video. I come across your video as I was looking for a thesis topic related to rainwater harvesting for recharge of borehole and at the same time diluting the saline groundwater for small island watershed. Your knowledge and experience projects are of very good reference. May I contact you if ever I need yr advice? keep it up, cheers.
in building, reining water is a major consideration, but in land keeping, we are learning, water has fun with our ideas showing who rules. Hard earned congratulation on B+ . Our similar to your trench turned out to be our better success stories. The erosion is marginal. Unprecedented late rains keep our pond digging pending. From more reading and watching about permaculture, the permanently holding water cavity seems to be the key to keep the whole system fed and healthy. Do you think that the farmer for whom you designed this project was hoping for a holding pond for this reason? would he/you consider lining the "pond" with a water holding membrane, or this is against the basic principles of permacuture? We plan to dig first, then observe if it holds the next rain season, then consider the lining. I think it would be worth the cheating, no? Your patience gently reminds us ; conducting water flow is a slow process worth mustering. Thank you again for being.
+architektura204 Haha. Thanks for your comment. So to answer your question, this was a small intervention on the land of a farmer who lives in an area where most farmers are just simply digging deeper and deeper bore wells. That's there best solution. So as a result, the 20 bore wells, all 200m deep, that exist on the nearby college campus are now all dry. Taking, taking, taking and never giving just leads to one thing. So part of the reason we chose to recharge instead of hold on the surface was because it's needed in the area in general. The second reason was he told me he had two priorities a) to get water into his dry well and b) to stop the water from eroding his land into the bordering, seasonal river. So my design was based on his priorities, as well as the caution to which farmers in the area approach any intervention whatsoever. If this was my land and I had absolute control of what decisions were made, I would have approached it differently. I would start with water management before I put any crops in whatsoever. I would make a network of trenches and ponds throughout the landscape, using contour as my guide. On the uphill side of things I would catch water in ponds in whatever manner necessary - lining with clay, putting in tarps, whatever it takes. Uphill water is precious. Then I would connect the uphill water to the downhill ponds with pipes, so I could easily transfer water from upper ponds to lower ponds without any water loss. This would more or less be the system I would follow. The pond I created was at the bottom of this man's farm, basically. Yes of course, we could put tarps in the pond to hold the water, or line it with clay; but it's at the bottom of the system and we would therefore need a pump to do anything with this water. In addition, it's way too small for a holding pond. If I meant to hold water I would have at least doubled or maybe tripled the capacity of this pond. I would try to create a situation where I'm holding enough water to make it to June, when the rains come again... Does this make sense?
+The Natural Farmer ...it totally makes sense. I understand that this is a project full of compromises. Your design to keep all the rain water on one's own land is beginning to really sink in that this needs to become our priority as well. I am just still struggling to make this theoretically clear concept to become a light felt paradigm shift free from conflicting thoughts. It is so so hard, I never knew. Nevertheless, I plan to "graduate" from your school :)
Hi John.. first thank you so much for sharing and watch all of your videos .. I have seen the first part and this as well .. am in pursuit of doing something like this in my village too .. however learning the contours is the key .. I have been researching on how to identify contours .. as you know in India ( am from tamilnadu ) resources can be pretty slim ... so if you can and I would much appreciate that if you show us how to identify contours easily that will be very helpful.. just giving some ideas also will be very helpful.. thank you so much!! Subash
Hallo Subash, you probably found out more about contours in the past 2 years but if you still need help with it, you can find the contours with the help of an A-frame. It is easy to build yourself. If you google A-frame and contours, you should find all the info you need. If not, let me know and I will try to find it for you. I have done it myself. All the best, Sat Atma
Your video is very useful. I would like visit this place to show to my few of relatives and encourage them to do so. Is it possible to share the location in google map? I am living in erode district in tamil nadu. Even if you have similar place in erode, that will also work. Also if you are working on any similar project now, it would like spend time to learn.
my native place in near dindugal city of tamil nadu state is also has a similar landscape will less rain fall. I have seen the wells holding water and we used to swim in the wells. bore wells where not heard at that time, as time went by all the wells are dry now and the farmers are digging bore well , every year and some people use drip irrigation , that's what they do , they dont understand what will happen after the bore well drys up. most of the farmers draw the water from the boar well and discharge it in the dry well to hold water , then they draw water from the well to irrigate the field , so much of energy wasted as the dry well will not be able to hold 100 percent water , as the electricity is provided free of cost to the farmers in my state. they don't bother about it. the goverment official never act on this practice as the farmers a vote banks and they will lose majority to rule . the agriculture office never encourage the farmers about the recharge of his well and politician too want the farmers to be ignorant as all the bore well digging rigs are owned by them and they earn in cores by digging boar well. I tried to educate them about the recharge pit . but there question is who will pay ? I cant help them on it. so now my plan is to buy a dry land on cheap rate and make it a fertile land in few years time.
I am familiar with everything you described my friend. It is a very tragic situation. Much suffering. Much ignorance. No help from the government or from the other farmers. Good water management requires community organization. Like in Ralegan Siddhi, transformed by Anna Hazare. Miracle. But community organization made it possible. Yes. But the land and transform it. Then people will come and learn. When they see green in the brown land, they will listen. Not before. Do this my brother. Carry this message...
@@TheNaturalFarmer I found it interesting that the farmer did not follow your advice and plant trees. I mean they could set up a simple nursery, have some easy to propagate shurubs or trees. (Leucaenia comes to mind, it will not get invasive in that region, too dry and it can be cut back dramatically every year - manually, no machines. They can be cut down later, when the farmer decides what kind of fruit trees he wants to grow. And mulching / composting also does not seem to catch on - maybe there are concerns to give too much habitat to pests and snakes etc (or ants).
@@TheNaturalFarmer Traditional farmers are a stubborn and inflexible breed and they are suprisingly unable / unwilling to change their ways and to notice when the traditional methods degrade the land and do not work anymore - or the land cannot compensate for their errors anymore. Top down government programs with a carrot / stick approach can work (if they engage the grassroots), they ovecome the inertia and the naysayers in the community. Plus inject the money for the upfront investments. Also overcome the rivalries. (for instance with watershed harvesting programs, one of the first objections of those on lower ground is that the work starts at the highest points, it must start at the top if they do the work for an area. Would be kind of obvious one would think. As for the NREGA projects it seems that some of it is very successful while in other villages corruption and nepotism stands in the way of doing comprehensive work. One of the major contributions of the ? Paneer foundation is they incentivize villages to cooperate, they always win, even if they do not win the award. Credit to the actor that uses his platform to promote the good cause. He gives the much needed status to such projects, so that the followers (most farmers are followers) will go allong with it - the status of whoever suggests change often makes or breaks the large scale application. In a sense government has also a lot of "sway" be it being viewed as authority as experts or by pushing them into the right direction. When the Lush plateau (in terrible shape in the 90s) was restored the locals were sceptical, they were so committed to the idea of having wandering herds that they could see no other possibility. (2.5 million people live there and an area the size of the Netherlands came back beautifully). They were in a vicious ciycle where the short erm income undermined their future. And in that stage of degradation, they needed a lot of outside input (= government money, but also sending in experts) to turn things around. The resistance: One older man, obvioulsy a herder / farmer - in the documentary of John D. Liu. "They want us to plant trees. Everywhere !! Even in the good places !!! One cannot eat trees ''''" - the crowd on the street laughed about the last sentence, so that was "clear" to all of them. (actually one can, or their fruits, and they had been witnesses how the grass and shrubs and water became less and less. Still they did not see the obvious). Good places then = what little had not yet been degraded by overgrazing). The Chinese dictatorship used the carrot and sticks approach. The herds had to be kept in - but the farmers got money so they could buy fodder. The eartwork and planting was ordered and done - but people were paid to do it. Some machines, but also a lot of manual labor with shovels. If the whole village in India would start even modest measures the effects would accumulate. Most of them are not good in observing and managing the land and going WITH nature. Plus I think that there is a STRONG push to conform, to not do things differently than the neighbours and the forefathers. In that case they also have an information disadvantage, but farmers in Germany, Sweden, Australia or the U.S. are not much better and would have much better conditions (wealth, machines, public funding, access to information, electricity). Being followers and not being competent stewards able and willing to learn and change is true all over the planet. How could that farmer _think_ his well was in danger, he knows that well inside out he grew up with it, obviously it is rock. Most likely he was influenced by doom and gloom predicting (gleeful / suspicious / narrow minded / ignorant / envious) neighbours that told him that terrible things would happen. It is not clear that they will go along and adopt the measures (or even smaller measures that can be done with manual labor and local materials) when they see heis successful. It depends on his status in the village. If he is not one of the influencers, or if one of the influencers is negative or uniterested - when his success is undeniable that will be quickly redefined (that was only because he got a lot of help form outside) and they will switich from ridicule / negativity to relativism and envy - never getting to the stage of following his example. That is also something that one can also observe in the farming communities in rich countries. In those areas people are even more conservative and more afraid of being censured by their "peers". That he allowed wood to be taken out (by machines no less) shows that he was either very unaware of what was going on, or he is eager to please other people - either way he is not good in noticing the obvious. Could have been family / relatives that got the wod , maybe he got money for it (but that short term income comes at a steep cost if he lost an acre of good soil), or he wanted to please local influencers.
It's all an evolutionary process, working with Nature. I think even if you did get it just the way you wanted, it would adjust over time with Nature anyhow.
+Harmony Rose Yes. That's right. It's a very big subject and I have a lot to learn here. I'm happy to have the opportunity to do interventions like this. It helps me learn. And it puts water in the ground. I can't tell you how good it feels to help water get in the ground. It's a great feeling!
great, you showed the 'before' and 'after' situation. usually we only see people doing things, but never the effect. Interesting and helpful. thank you
I really enjoyed these videos. It would be really interesting to see how it looks after 5 years. Do you have any plans to go back? A long term video would be really useful to show people that it works. All the best.
7 years later, would be even better! :)
I am also interested to see what happened with that farmland.
I put my vote in for an update too!
Carry on Dude! The world needs more people like you! Best of luck!!
Thanks Joseph. Nice to her from you
As a social worker/community developer loving rural areas, this really excites me. Your work would really muster faith in self-reliance in a rural community.
Great work you're doing John!!! You are INSPIRING!!!
Thank you
When I saw how much MORE water he had in his well after 5 months I was amazed. I can finally say now that I believe that this process will work on my own land where my well has been devastated by deep bore wells all around me.
Very,very interesting to follow this project!!Lovely to follow the digging of the swales to see the drawing materialise!Thank you for giving your experience to the world…great education.A kind of learning by doing,even I just watch your video,easy!🤪I feel my courage piling up ,so I might get to realise some swales on my fields…! Sincerely hope for more videos from your hands…good luck with everything! :)
I love your work and what you’re doing there! Kerala is beautiful,I have been there too. Now establishing my own permaculture business here in Belgium
This may aid our water/well situation on our new land. Thank you.
I live outside tacoma and we have lots of rain, but we have fire's for about three months. If I do this the water content of the soil would increase and effectively help water my trees so it's not so dry. Thank you for the video.
Thank you. Yes, the entire West of the U.S. needs to start practicing these things. It's not too late...
+The Natural Farmer Thanks for the update! It would be interesting to see how it's doing this monsoon. I'd be especially interested to see if the overflow pipe is causing erosion on the backside of the tank berm. In my experience, it's best to get the overflow discharge away from the berm (so it doesn't erode the structure, particularly on the down-slope side, where a blowout would be very bad) and to pacify/ spread the discharge as soon as possible. I'd also be interested to know if the inlet pipe clogs. Based on the design you drew, I'd expected the swale just to flow into the tank and potentially to act as the overflow.
Good feedback.
This was a difficult project - from the people side. Normally I would only work with a level-sill overflow spillway, planted with grass to prevent erosion. The system you see in this video was they way they do it locally. I actually wasn't present when they added this. It was a good lesson for me - maintain control of the project from beginning to end....
Yes, the design had the swale filling first, overflowing into the recharge pond, then backfilling across the swale and overflowing to the lower boundary swale. But as I said, many details were lost on this project.
I'm in Sicily now. I have the possibility of making additional swales here, complete with food forest plantings. This is the plan. The rain comes here in October. I hope to create a new system here and make a new video on the subject. It will be much easier, I think, just by the fact that I'll have more control over what actually gets carried out.
Nevertheless, the system shown in this present videos works. This goes to show - even a badly executed system can harvest water. Now it just needs to be redesigned a bit to function optimally. We may have an opportunity to do this in January...
I'll see if I can get someone to take photos now, during monsoon. We'll see how it's holding up.
That is where most projects fail or in these cases yield less then was hoped or anticipated, It is always hard to direct projects where the outcome is over such a large time frame and then handing off to other people. You achieved many of the goals you set out with. There is still a certain level where people themselves need to continue to the end result otherwise they will always count the things that did not last or work properly when some of the major components like the erosion measures were never put in place, IE the Trees to the Swales to stabilize them. When we step forward to help or improve something then there is never a failure, But you cannot be expected to do everything and gift it to everyone as that is also not sustainable. Some only dream of change and others like you boldly take up the challenge and do the best they can. I am a Horseman with sound systems in place, If I take a terrified and upset Horses and I improve them 1 % each day in one hundred days they are perfect !!!!!!!!!!!!!! now I am very good at what I do so I never expect every day to be perfect just like in nature, But if everything I do is from the Heart with strong Moral content then I improve the world around me and those I can help and that is My message to you, Stay true to your path and the rest will fill in around you and you will always draw those in need that you can help and those that you can't fully get them to where you hoped they would get to, you draw solace from the fact that you improved things and at least showed the possibilities. Stay well and stay Blessed
Very nice work!! Even from the video, I get vertigo looking down over the edge of the well. :-S
This is a great project. You should be very proud of the work you've completed.
I'm glad I found your channel
+Tim Flood Thank you for the nice comment. Yes, it felt very good to see these results and to know that things can be turned around...Glad you're here!
@@TheNaturalFarmer You well deserve that it worked, as it was cleverly designed.
This said, there is something I don't understand :
When using the pond/infiltration pit near the well, how do you know it will recharge the well?
How do you know there is an impervious layer going under the whole subsurface of both the well and the pond? Maybe there is fractured rock between the 2, and water will just get lost at super deep depths with no benefit for the well?
Thankfully it wasn't so, but how did you know in advance?
Anyxay amazing work as always.
@@o00oZu1o00o In my experience, earthworks are a bit like going on a journey. We plan the best we can, but then we have to just jump in and hope for the best. Other than that, I don't know what to say...
Omg this is exactly what I need to do to grow a well thank u. I live in yucca Arizona
Great!
Hi john, I work all over South america with family in Chile. I am from Tamil Nadu state. I plan to go back to my native arid zone and work on land in permaculture and Miyawaki tree growing tecniques in 6 acres of land. Basically retired man 67, very healthy and active, giving back to the land by taking care of it.
Can u give the contact dtls of this project, i wld like to visit and see their progress, after Covid is over. Shall appreciate..
Thanks for the update, Jagannath! Good to see that it worked out that well. There will always be adjustments to do as the time goes with nature. And that's the way we all learn to do things better next season. :-)
+Svein Arne Grønnevik Yep. Very true.
I love these videos
You have done pretty nice job jaggy..Keep up the good work..
Thanks Prabhu. :) Good to hear from you...
You my guy...are doing God's work
Would love to see an update someday.
Hi. Great channel. thanks for the learning curve and the confidence to know if one can see or learn to see and respect nature's patterns and rhythms one can implement a plan to live more harmoniously and less exploitively. I am curious, though not sure if you still see these comments, four years later have you kept in touch with the farmer or received word of how the project has evolved? Hope that you do see this i am curious what 4 years later looks like of water management in the tropics as i am in southern tropical Mexico. Saludos
Good questions.
Two years ago I wrote to the organization I used to work for in Kerala, asking how things were progressing with the farmer's well, but I did not receive a response. I'll keep trying. It would be nice to make a video on the results after 4 or 5 years.
Is there a Part 3? It would be nice if links to a video series were in the description.
Hi John, please help advise how i can manage water in the soil in dry season. I am in the south eastern of Vietnam, we have 6-6 month of rain & dry climate, my land is kind of rocky soil - with tiny rocks in it, not much top soil due to wrong farming before we bought this. About 40-50cm deep there are bigger rock and soil drain too fast, it does not hold water very well. In the rain season there is no problem but in dry season. I have been watching your videos for the tropics and thinking of digging deep contours along the land to fill with organic matter to help hold the water in the long run as well as improving the soil the way you showed in the videos. One more thing is that in the dry season we have a well with water fed by rice fill beside (water from a damp near the rice fill).
Many thanks in advance
Your question requires more than a simple response on RUclips. I would suggest that you take my upcoming Natural Farming course. I speak about these types of things, as well as how to design for this.....
www.johnkaisner.com/
is there going to be number 3 video on this then
+The Natural Farmer I like your perspective on expecting to modify your plan. I think that gives a better point to work from and allows for more creativity when planning.
+Aaron W. Yes I agree. The deeper I go into all of this, the more I learn.... Nature is our best teacher.
The Natural Farmer Do you have any recommendations to learn more about natural farming techniques - courses, books or otherwise? I also want to say I applaud the inspirational work you are doing in India and wish you the best with your continued efforts.
For natural farming I would recommend reading the book One Straw Revolution by Masanobu Fukuoka. See how you like that and get back to me. We'll be having courses in the future...
The Natural Farmer I finished reading the book you recommended over the weekend - which I thoroughly enjoyed. I was left with some questions about how you reconcile contributing inputs and for how long while using the Natural Farming Method as well as some questions about the differences between Fukuoka's Method vs Permaculture. Do you have an email you could send me to further discuss?
Ah very good. Sure, write me at jknaturalfarmer@gmail.com
I see a lot of Parthenium weed on the land where the water recharging project was done. Can Parthenium be considered as good biomass for mulching and building soil?
Probably. For tree systems the best biomass is pioneer species nitrogen fixers, of course. Woody material, nitrogen, biomass, leaves. I don't know about the Parthenium. That's a very good question...
Parthenium weed has a lot of negative effects than the positives.
Cons:
1. It reproduces faster than any other weed, if not removed they would cover up the entire farmlands in a months time. It literally covers up the land in a way that no other plants would grow around it.
2. Many people are allergic to its smell. Myself included. if come into contact it causes skin allergies like rashes and could also cause sinus problems( i would sneeze myself into oblivion ). I really hate that weed.
Proof: I'm a farmer from the same state(Tamil Nadu) and we are trying hard to control this weed. Herbicides have little to no effect on this weed. Only high dose chemical herbicides kill this plant and those chemicals would kill the soil organisms. And I would not recommend that.
We always try uprooting them as much as possible. Whenever I see this plant I uproot it. There's no other way.
TL:DR;- No. Parthenium is evil.
Hi there, was the farmer successful in planting trees on the berms and stopping errosion? Has his field been able to grow crops?
Someone is checking on all of that now. When I left India he had still never planted trees on the berm. In this kind of work you will discover that you can design and implement works, but perhaps still not be able to get people to listen to you and finish the design. That's been my experience anyway. It's different when you have a paying client. They tend to listen more....
Thank you Mr pierce brosnan
Haha. Nice
Should be a month or two more until the monsoon season, no? I wonder if you all are figuring on restructuring the swales and planting them up this time.
+mrd05d Monsoon in Kerala is normally around June 1st. But I'm currently traveling, so I won't be there. Will most likely return to India toward the end of 2016...
Possible to place a gabion in the seasonal stream bed to decrease erosion and increase groundwater?
Yes, it's possible. But that type of large-scale work would most likely require government support, be it local or higher. Creating effective gabion systems along a seasonal riverbed, such as the one seen in the video, takes design and real commitment of resources and energy.
Wow great work. I was following both the videos. But ya no point right, no trees and no vegetations, how will the ponds and trenches will be helpful for the farmer.
Now it's 5 yrs and hv you contacted the farmer abt how good his well.
I am farmer from mountain, I too dig a open well 8 yrs back and now since I grew more trees in my farm, the well keep filling with more water and actually less rain this yr.
Anyways it's a nice learning, like to learn more from you. Thank you for the share, at the right time, since gone start a new project on food forest almost 100kms from this site I believe. Hope you will share your experience.😊
I so wish that your permaculture design plan was implemented in full with all details to the end……This could have been incredible…… you gave so much too…….
Thanks for the video. I wanted to know the depth and width of the swale, any sizing formula for this. What would be the ideal height of the spill way from the swale into the pond. Are swales connected using spillways?
I plan to put in forest trees on my flat irrigated land spaced 35 ft between rows and 15 ft between trees with shrubs in between trees. I was planning at putting in swales to irrigate the rows of trees and connect ponds and swales using spillways. Since the land is pretty flat should i bother finding a contour for putting in the swale. I plan to cultivate between these tree rows. let me know your views.
Flat land is pretty forgiving. It's pretty easy to manipulate the swale level on flat land. But I still measure contour. Even "flat" land is not flat. It still has a harmonic pattern. I like to respect that. I've had times when I haven't and the "flat" land refound its old harmonics. Then I was fighting against it...
Your spacing between swales sounds good. You can probably go closer with the trees, depending on the species. You may want to add some layers of chop and drop nitrogen-fixing pioneer species as well. This creates fast carbon pathways and stabilizes the plant succession. You can also add some food if you want. Is it very far from where you live?
Thank you for your kind response. Yes this land is quite far from where i live. I plan to put in pigeon pea between the tall forest trees (neem, teak, melia dubia) and horse gram at the foot of the trees. Since i need ample sunlight i plan to put in tall trees.This land i plan to cultivate finger millet, groundnut, blackgram, ginger and vegetables.
There is another rain fed land we have close to the village, this has fruit trees, pigeon peas and moringa tree for nitrogen fixing.
Please tell me the sizing (depth : width) for a swale, should the depth touch the subsoil?
Would 0.5 ft depth from the land surface be the ideal depth of a spillway?
Sounds perfect Satish. You already understand all the plants to use and how to use them. Very good my friend.
Do you know how to measure the inclination of the land where you hope to place the swales?
(you can use a water level and measure the "drop" per linear meter....)
Swale shape depends on the grade of the land.
Thanks, I plan to use the water level.
@@satishchandrakodagally7945 Hi Satish.. how much progress did u ake in ur venture? i would love to know that.
I have a question. I can lead water to walls of my concrete well, water that now is being discharged and wasted. But I don't have space to put a pond. Is it necessary?
Very instructive video. I come across your video as I was looking for a thesis topic related to rainwater harvesting for recharge of borehole and at the same time diluting the saline groundwater for small island watershed. Your knowledge and experience projects are of very good reference. May I contact you if ever I need yr advice? keep it up, cheers.
Thank you.
Sure
Write me at jknaturalfarmer@gmail.com
in building, reining water is a major consideration, but in land keeping, we are learning, water has fun with our ideas showing who rules. Hard earned congratulation on B+ . Our similar to your trench turned out to be our better success stories. The erosion is marginal. Unprecedented late rains keep our pond digging pending. From more reading and watching about permaculture, the permanently holding water cavity seems to be the key to keep the whole system fed and healthy. Do you think that the farmer for whom you designed this project was hoping for a holding pond for this reason? would he/you consider lining the "pond" with a water holding membrane, or this is against the basic principles of permacuture? We plan to dig first, then observe if it holds the next rain season, then consider the lining. I think it would be worth the cheating, no? Your patience gently reminds us ; conducting water flow is a slow process worth mustering. Thank you again for being.
+architektura204 Haha. Thanks for your comment. So to answer your question, this was a small intervention on the land of a farmer who lives in an area where most farmers are just simply digging deeper and deeper bore wells. That's there best solution. So as a result, the 20 bore wells, all 200m deep, that exist on the nearby college campus are now all dry. Taking, taking, taking and never giving just leads to one thing. So part of the reason we chose to recharge instead of hold on the surface was because it's needed in the area in general. The second reason was he told me he had two priorities a) to get water into his dry well and b) to stop the water from eroding his land into the bordering, seasonal river. So my design was based on his priorities, as well as the caution to which farmers in the area approach any intervention whatsoever.
If this was my land and I had absolute control of what decisions were made, I would have approached it differently. I would start with water management before I put any crops in whatsoever. I would make a network of trenches and ponds throughout the landscape, using contour as my guide. On the uphill side of things I would catch water in ponds in whatever manner necessary - lining with clay, putting in tarps, whatever it takes. Uphill water is precious. Then I would connect the uphill water to the downhill ponds with pipes, so I could easily transfer water from upper ponds to lower ponds without any water loss. This would more or less be the system I would follow.
The pond I created was at the bottom of this man's farm, basically. Yes of course, we could put tarps in the pond to hold the water, or line it with clay; but it's at the bottom of the system and we would therefore need a pump to do anything with this water. In addition, it's way too small for a holding pond. If I meant to hold water I would have at least doubled or maybe tripled the capacity of this pond. I would try to create a situation where I'm holding enough water to make it to June, when the rains come again...
Does this make sense?
+The Natural Farmer ...it totally makes sense. I understand that this is a project full of compromises. Your design to keep all the rain water on one's own land is beginning to really sink in that this needs to become our priority as well. I am just still struggling to make this theoretically clear concept to become a light felt paradigm shift free from conflicting thoughts. It is so so hard, I never knew. Nevertheless, I plan to "graduate" from your school :)
:)
Hi John.. first thank you so much for sharing and watch all of your videos .. I have seen the first part and this as well .. am in pursuit of doing something like this in my village too .. however learning the contours is the key .. I have been researching on how to identify contours .. as you know in India ( am from tamilnadu ) resources can be pretty slim ... so if you can and I would much appreciate that if you show us how to identify contours easily that will be very helpful.. just giving some ideas also will be very helpful.. thank you so much!! Subash
Hallo Subash, you probably found out more about contours in the past 2 years but if you still need help with it, you can find the contours with the help of an A-frame. It is easy to build yourself. If you google A-frame and contours, you should find all the info you need. If not, let me know and I will try to find it for you. I have done it myself. All the best, Sat Atma
@@satatmak9937 thank you for following up ! Yes I figured it out ..
Why did you mark with water tube level before digging trench
To find contour. The water distributes across the trench evenly when you do that....
Super sir
Your video is very useful. I would like visit this place to show to my few of relatives and encourage them to do so. Is it possible to share the location in google map?
I am living in erode district in tamil nadu. Even if you have similar place in erode, that will also work. Also if you are working on any similar project now, it would like spend time to learn.
You can write to the organization that I used to work for. Maybe they can help organize a visit...
amritaserve.org/
Nice planning but the recharge pit is not safe , plz put some stone wall or something to stop the animals or humans falling into it
my native place in near dindugal city of tamil nadu state is also has a similar landscape will less rain fall. I have seen the wells holding water and we used to swim in the wells. bore wells where not heard at that time, as time went by all the wells are dry now and the farmers are digging bore well , every year and some people use drip irrigation , that's what they do , they dont understand what will happen after the bore well drys up. most of the farmers draw the water from the boar well and discharge it in the dry well to hold water , then they draw water from the well to irrigate the field , so much of energy wasted as the dry well will not be able to hold 100 percent water , as the electricity is provided free of cost to the farmers in my state. they don't bother about it. the goverment official never act on this practice as the farmers a vote banks and they will lose majority to rule . the agriculture office never encourage the farmers about the recharge of his well and politician too want the farmers to be ignorant as all the bore well digging rigs are owned by them and they earn in cores by digging boar well. I tried to educate them about the recharge pit . but there question is who will pay ? I cant help them on it. so now my plan is to buy a dry land on cheap rate and make it a fertile land in few years time.
I am familiar with everything you described my friend. It is a very tragic situation. Much suffering. Much ignorance. No help from the government or from the other farmers. Good water management requires community organization. Like in Ralegan Siddhi, transformed by Anna Hazare. Miracle. But community organization made it possible.
Yes. But the land and transform it. Then people will come and learn. When they see green in the brown land, they will listen. Not before. Do this my brother. Carry this message...
@@TheNaturalFarmer I found it interesting that the farmer did not follow your advice and plant trees. I mean they could set up a simple nursery, have some easy to propagate shurubs or trees. (Leucaenia comes to mind, it will not get invasive in that region, too dry and it can be cut back dramatically every year - manually, no machines. They can be cut down later, when the farmer decides what kind of fruit trees he wants to grow.
And mulching / composting also does not seem to catch on - maybe there are concerns to give too much habitat to pests and snakes etc (or ants).
@@TheNaturalFarmer Traditional farmers are a stubborn and inflexible breed and they are suprisingly unable / unwilling to change their ways and to notice when the traditional methods degrade the land and do not work anymore - or the land cannot compensate for their errors anymore.
Top down government programs with a carrot / stick approach can work (if they engage the grassroots), they ovecome the inertia and the naysayers in the community. Plus inject the money for the upfront investments. Also overcome the rivalries. (for instance with watershed harvesting programs, one of the first objections of those on lower ground is that the work starts at the highest points, it must start at the top if they do the work for an area. Would be kind of obvious one would think. As for the NREGA projects it seems that some of it is very successful while in other villages corruption and nepotism stands in the way of doing comprehensive work.
One of the major contributions of the ? Paneer foundation is they incentivize villages to cooperate, they always win, even if they do not win the award. Credit to the actor that uses his platform to promote the good cause. He gives the much needed status to such projects, so that the followers (most farmers are followers) will go allong with it - the status of whoever suggests change often makes or breaks the large scale application. In a sense government has also a lot of "sway" be it being viewed as authority as experts or by pushing them into the right direction.
When the Lush plateau (in terrible shape in the 90s) was restored the locals were sceptical, they were so committed to the idea of having wandering herds that they could see no other possibility. (2.5 million people live there and an area the size of the Netherlands came back beautifully).
They were in a vicious ciycle where the short erm income undermined their future. And in that stage of degradation, they needed a lot of outside input (= government money, but also sending in experts) to turn things around.
The resistance: One older man, obvioulsy a herder / farmer - in the documentary of John D. Liu.
"They want us to plant trees. Everywhere !! Even in the good places !!!
One cannot eat trees ''''"
- the crowd on the street laughed about the last sentence, so that was "clear" to all of them. (actually one can, or their fruits, and they had been witnesses how the grass and shrubs and water became less and less. Still they did not see the obvious).
Good places then = what little had not yet been degraded by overgrazing). The Chinese dictatorship used the carrot and sticks approach. The herds had to be kept in - but the farmers got money so they could buy fodder. The eartwork and planting was ordered and done - but people were paid to do it. Some machines, but also a lot of manual labor with shovels.
If the whole village in India would start even modest measures the effects would accumulate.
Most of them are not good in observing and managing the land and going WITH nature. Plus I think that there is a STRONG push to conform, to not do things differently than the neighbours and the forefathers. In that case they also have an information disadvantage, but farmers in Germany, Sweden, Australia or the U.S. are not much better and would have much better conditions (wealth, machines, public funding, access to information, electricity).
Being followers and not being competent stewards able and willing to learn and change is true all over the planet.
How could that farmer _think_ his well was in danger, he knows that well inside out he grew up with it, obviously it is rock.
Most likely he was influenced by doom and gloom predicting (gleeful / suspicious / narrow minded / ignorant / envious) neighbours that told him that terrible things would happen.
It is not clear that they will go along and adopt the measures (or even smaller measures that can be done with manual labor and local materials) when they see heis successful. It depends on his status in the village. If he is not one of the influencers, or if one of the influencers is negative or uniterested - when his success is undeniable that will be quickly redefined (that was only because he got a lot of help form outside) and they will switich from ridicule / negativity to relativism and envy - never getting to the stage of following his example.
That is also something that one can also observe in the farming communities in rich countries. In those areas people are even more conservative and more afraid of being censured by their "peers".
That he allowed wood to be taken out (by machines no less) shows that he was either very unaware of what was going on, or he is eager to please other people - either way he is not good in noticing the obvious. Could have been family / relatives that got the wod , maybe he got money for it (but that short term income comes at a steep cost if he lost an acre of good soil), or he wanted to please local influencers.
It's so sad that the farmer didn't plant trees,maybe he was sad and hopeless when you leave the project or just lazy .
It's all an evolutionary process, working with Nature. I think even if you did get it just the way you wanted, it would adjust over time with Nature anyhow.
+Harmony Rose Yes. That's right. It's a very big subject and I have a lot to learn here. I'm happy to have the opportunity to do interventions like this. It helps me learn. And it puts water in the ground. I can't tell you how good it feels to help water get in the ground. It's a great feeling!
The Natural Farmer I can imagine it'd be such a satisfying feeling. Isn't it this that is what life is all about :)
;) yes