Just want to add though that as much as I love Sennheiser classic HD6xx line and the 58X, they do indeed sound oddly muddy at times where they shouldn't. Was listening to Sade in lossless and was surprised to hear how much cleaner Hifiman 400i sounded over HD6XX. I think it's a combination of a lack of bass quality and a general lack of transient response/speed of the drivers. They are good drivers and were cutting edge on release 20 years ago, but today they definitely show their age. I do think Beyerdynamic's classic dynamic drivers in their DT8/7/9xx line as well as the DT250 are actually technically superior performers. Unfortunately, the tonality of most of their headphones isn't entirely natural with rather strong treble emphasis and also too much bass on some of them, which leaves the mids a bit dull and lifeless. The DT250 is a stand out in that it is actually closer to HD6xx in tonality. On that headphone, you can hear the superior transients and resolution of the driver over the Sennheiser drivers pretty clearly. Unfortunately, DT250 suffers from some treble grain likely due to closed headphone reflections, so treble isn't as clean as on open backs. Yet, it is still impressive in its transient response. Contradictory, but that's what my ears are telling me. DT880 suffers a bit in imaging because of its semi-open design IMO. DT250 actually images better I think than the DT880, even though the latter has a larger, more open stage. DT990 doesn't have issues with imaging, but its frequency response is messed up - way too V-shaped.
What is fascinating is that at ASR, the HD58x tested incredibly well. The DT880 did not, at all. I have bought and listened to enough gear that i do defer to those ASR tests. I think there is simply quite a bit of subjectivity. We are driven, i think, by what we have heard or what we want to hear. I think too that the dacs and amps we use matters a lot. The music genres matter too. The point is i can see why these phones test well, but can yield poor reviews when some are testing them plugged into a laptop or a cellphone versus maybe running through a jotunheim.
you probably dont read the comments of these old videos but I wanted to tell you that your amplification recommendation was spot on. I plugged the headphones into a Yamaha rx-596 from 1998. headphone output .3v/680 ohms impedance. What a difference. They sound so open and rich. Delightful sound.
It's somewhat odd that you find them better out of a high impedance amp. All that does is add some more bass really. My 58X already has a little too much bass, so adding even more wouldn't help. Again, could there be significant unit variance between HD58X pairs? Perhaps, although Sennheiser is generally known for having good quality control. There's a bit of a 5 kHz emphasis, which maybe is what you find to be irritating in the treble. However, it's very minor. Personally, I don't find that it sticks out too much at all. I mean if you compare that to the much stronger peaks of the DT880, it really is minor. It could just be that it stands out more because the rest of the treble is so linear. Or again, your unit could be significantly different from mine, which I actually doubt. Bass is a bit muddy on the HD58X and also on the HD650/6XX. That's their main downside IMO. HD600 has somewhat tighter, cleaner low end, but still a little muddy. DT880 and many other headphones actually, have better bass quality. Hifiman HE-4XX has way better bass quality. However, in terms of low end warmth, I think the HD58X actually has too much of it. A few dB less below 150 Hz wouldn't hurt. Fit is crucial with the HD58X. You should be wearing them pretty far back on your head, otherwise the treble and overall transparency will suffer. This is also true of HD6XX and 600. Regarding the use of plastics. If they are the same quality as those on the HD650, it should last for many years unless significantly abused. HD650/600 are proven to be highly durable for normal use.
I find HD 6** actually more satisfying and compfy than the Beyers. Yes the overall design is quite old but I can wear them for hours and don't feel any discomfort, something that I can't say about DT880-600 or other Beyers. Plus the laid back and midrange centered sound signature doesn't draw attention attention. Mine are with SolderDude mod to lower the upper bass/low mids hump and makes them less muddy. The extra energy in top octaves and cleaness wouldn't hurt, but I can live with them. Plus they can easily powered by something like a cellphone or portable USB DAC. Yeah, the 6XX is a better choice.
I agree that the HD6XX are a better headphone than the DT880 both for sound and comfort I think. I like the DT880 250 ohm SE version (black), but I'd reach for the HD6XX more often if I owned them
@@PassionforSound I agree with you, but there’s a lot of people (like me) who can’t stand an attached cable... if DT 880 had a detachable cable it would make a lot of competitors obsolete.
You're the only review I've seen or read that criticized their mids. So either your sense of hearing is off, or you just don't want to credit these for what they are: a medium tier headphone at an entry level price.
Hi Tim, I can only share what I hear and to me, they're just not that great across all genres. The mids can sound wonderful with certain genres and certain amps, but I believe there are better all-around headphones out there.
@@PassionforSound what are some better all around headphones in the $200-300 price range? I had a pair of QC35 II, Airpods Pro, and was considering buying a pair of Airpods Max. That's what brought me down the rabbit hole where I ended up purchasing the 58x this morning on Drop. Now I dont know if i made the right decision. I will be exclusively listening to these headphones on my 2020 Macbook Pro 16 and the ability to power them directly from my laptop, one of the reasons these were attractive to me as many reviewers said they didnt need an amp esp with the newer Macbook 16s. If you had $250-300 to spend, were only listening to Premium Spotify/Tidal Hifi via a Macbook 16, what headphones would you recommend? Comfort (i wear thick black rimmed glasses), non-fatiguing sound for all genres is basically what Im after and I was willing to spend up to $600 (when i was looking at the Airpods Max) but if something can come close to the sound of the HD58x for around the same price i would love to stay there as well. Any recommendation would be a great help! thanks for the help and your content!
That's a really interesting question... I think if I was looking for something better, easy to drive and not too different in price, I'd consider the AKG K712 Pro, Audeze LCD-1 (review coming soon, but also discussed them in my HD560S and Drop Panda reviews), Ollo S4X, Monolith M1060 V2. I think the Ollo and K712 Pro will probably work best with your glasses while the LCD-1s might be a problem with the glasses. The K712 Pro are also improved by adding the Yaxi Comfort pads for the K712 and these will help further with your glasses I think.
@@PassionforSound similar in price the 712 pro? Can’t be serious? 712 pro are more than double the price here in Australia compared to the drop 58x. Nearest in price would be an entry level hifiman. Very little in the 58x price range could even come close
Have you tried the HD560s? I'm trying to decide between these two... This seems to have better build quality, but I hear the soundstage and positional audio is better with the HD560s. This is pretty important for me as I plan to use them for games, not just music.
Yes. I've reviewed the HD560S too. I think they're the better headphone. The treble is brighter so keep that in mind, but the bass is also better and the imaging / staging too
@@PassionforSound Why couldn't they give it a better build lol Most people say HD560S is better sounding, but why would they have a worse build than the HD58X or HD6XX which are around the same price ....
May I add another interesting observation? Sorry for making too many comments - I really don't mean to flood the comment section. lol I also own an older HD555 model from around 2006. It's a 50 Ohm driver and is supposed to be a mid range Sennheiser dynamic below the HD6xx line in quality. I modded it a little by removing the "sound reflector" piece of foam from behind the drivers. Well, let me tell you - the bass texture on my HD555 is actually superior to than of the HD650 and 58X. I can hear more nuance on the HD555, even though HD6XX sounds tighter. What does that mean? Well, HD555 driver is newer than the HD6xx ones in design, so that can account for something. Also, perhaps extra distortion in the bass on the HD555 is fooling me into thinking that it has more detail there - that's a real possibility as well, although I tend to listen at pretty low volumes where distortion shouldn't really be audible. Housing design matters too. Do HD6xx and 58X need a special amp to unlock better bass? Well maybe but I doubt that my THX789 isn't up to the task already. It's clear to my ears that my HD555s just sound somewhat clearer in the low end vs HD58X and 6xx, even though they seem less controlled. The mids and highs however, are indeed superior on the HD6xx by a good margin, no doubt. Soundstage, however, is also better on HD555s - it's more open sounding. So overall, HD6xx and 58X are better, but I still pick HD555s up sometimes as they do sound better to me in some cases. I compared my HD555s to a Focal Elex as well and noted that they actually have quite similar signatures, but the Elex is significantly better in the treble and overall clarity. My HD555s are like a "baby Elex" of sorts. :D
I'm an HD580 owner, are they similar to the HD58X? Mine are 25+ years old & I've recently replaced the cables & ear + headband pads. I checked the Bottlehead website, they don't state the Crack's output impedance, do you know the optimum output impedance?
I've never heard the true HD580 (vs Hd58x I mean) so I can't say if they're the same, but most high impedance Sennheisers will play beautifully with OTL amps. As for the output impedance, my understanding is that it varies a bit with the tubes used, but I think it hovers around 50-60 ohms depending on the tube.
Ah ha, when building DIY amplifiers years ago I found a 100 Ohm + 100 Ohm potential divider worked well with most headphones. That would put the output impedance at 50 Ohm. I believe I'm all set. Thanks!
I just purchased a pair of these yesterday after hearing a few seconds of a song on the pair my son just got. For me, an anti-sound snob, they simply blew my mind. I couldn't believe what I was hearing for under $200, so I was beyond sold. I really do appreciate your expertise, but for me, if sound gets "better" than this, I don't want to hear it...it's demons. I'm 45yo, so I'm from the era of cassette tapes...the variance between the two is a quantum leap to put it mildly, so anything else would be a radical example of diminishing marginal utility (I know...but you know what I mean), & again, giving these headphones to me is akin to taking Yogi Bear to The French Laundry...he's happy with a plain ol' pic-a-nic basket.
Hi Lachlan, I have a pair of 58x with a dragonfly red, and thinking of getting a Mojo 2 to pair with it. Do you think that the Mojo 2 would fix that problem that you described the high imp amp would? (At some stage in the future I will upgrade to a hifiman ananda). Cheers
The Mojo 2 is a nice upgrade over the DF Red, but it won't alter the sound the same way as the high output impedance. I'd probably suggest upgrading the headphones first
Hi Ryan, you could absolutely EQ it. I don't address EQing in my reviews generally because I don't use them for my normal listening, but it's a completely valid option 🙂
It's interesting to me how important bass is to different people. For me, I sold my HD600 b/c after 15 years I never liked the bass even when driven with amps ... to be more specific, it didn't make my toe tap or my head bob. Then I heard the 58x had more bass, at the price of losing some upper mid presence. That was a tradeoff I was more than willing to make. Hearing music is not my purpose... my purpose is to move to music. And to even add more appeal, they can be driven by an iphone dongle and still show good bass. Funnily enough, that's the same reason I didn't keep the Moondrop Starfield. I found the Simgot MT3 to have so much more pleasing bass, so kept those. But i'm not a complete basshead. I didn't like the TFZ No.. 3, and I prefer the Simgot to the Audiofly AF100 Mk2.
It's such a personal thing, isn't it? I'm like you in most cases in that I like to be emotionally connected to the music, not separated from it and analysing it. I think bass impact and midrange weight are very important in the overall enjoyment of music. Have you ever heard the Sundara? To me they're the perfect engaging option at the approximate price of the HD58X/HD6XX
@@PassionforSound Yes, I think you've reviewed the Sundara, right? The thing is I'm trying to reduce "stuff" I don't use in my life right now, and the 58x fits me just right... so I just don't have motivation to add to a "collection".
If you're happy then stick with it. Chasing the "perfect sound" is a bit of a fallacy in my experience. Everything has its trade-offs with audio so stick with what you have and just enjoy the tunes!
I agree with the video. I enjoyed 58x until i bought iLoud micro monitors. Since then i started to feel the lack of air and the lack of articulation some bass sounds. Not sure what shall i do now to get back to listening headphones. I doubt about getting 560s... Maybe i should go with Sundara..
Hi, I have those 58X for over two years, great cans but I want to do an upgrade, most of the time I listen metal, to traditional heavy to modern progressive, occasionally classical and some trance, I'm between the Sundaras and the HD 600, which one do you recommend me? And do you think that it worth it?
That's a tough question. I think I'd probably choose the Sundara for the better bass reproduction. That said, the HD600 might have a little more bite in the treble. Both are excellent so perhaps decide based on whether you prefer the attack in the treble or extension in the bass. Hope that helps!
After I did simple modification (adding mesh for magnet protection, stick with felt pad with 10mm hole on the center, and back sponge removed), I simply cannot believe how transparent sound can be!
Just watched this on a 58x.. Save for the 650/6xx imo if you're only getting one, but these are cheaper, a bit lighter and can be driven well by something btr3k. Bass a bit deeper and tigher so some might prefer these but 650s are a bit magic
Would recommend over the he4xx, though, those are fun for blasting out a few metal tracks then I have to take them off. Not to mention they need quite a bit more power
@@PassionforSound yep, and everyone's ears are different! The HE4xx is probably a more interesting set, they certainly have more WOW factor and arguably better value but Sennheisers are more of an all rounder if you plan to own just one set.
Would the Max Book Pro Max which has high impedance out drive these 58X well and sound great ? Also. Have you tried the 6XX. ? Maybe they sound better and closer to the HD-650?
The 6XX are definitely the better headphone IMO - I've got a review of them on the channel too. As for the Mac Book Pro Max, I haven't tried one so I can't comment on its sound quality running the headphones directly
I have them, 58X, with 'SolderDude mod - felt with 4mm hole on the back of the driver - less 150Hz hump, more 3-4ks, and 3 layers of ladies stockings instead of foam covering the driver. I prefer their warm laid back sound to DT880-600, which I find lacking in mids and low highs and overly bright in the top. Then, I have to agree that HD 58X could be cleaner in upper registers. Yes, sax sounds very nice as it does on 6XX. Also comfort wise HD 6** series beats the Beyers by miles at least in my book - I find Sennheisers have more space and my ears don't touch the driver covers. They're lighter as well and padding on top of the head adds to the comfort. I wonder if changing to silver or silver plated cables could help with the overly laid back nature/vail of these headphones (6** series)?
Thanks for sharing your experiences, pliedtka. I think the 6XX are a great headphone and significantly better than the stock 58X. I'd probably not bother with cable changes on the 58X and instead go straight to the 6XX with the extra money. Upgrading the 6XX cables could be a nice idea though because they do scale very well.
Don't say that, I might eventually get the 6XX. Or Sundara, but the QC and warranty is kind of scary - throw aways like household appliances, maybe depending what of the week it was made ;) Unfortunately you have to pay extra for well made Chinese products, a friend of mine designs Hi-End loudspeaker transducers and there's a lot of junk coming from China depending on the manufacturing house. Then there's also ATH-R70 (with the wings) - maybe you should check it out for review.
I actually owned the R70 for a while and was going to review it, but I ended up selling it because it wasn't that great. Not bad, just not something I felt compelled to find time to review.
Sure thing. I have covered it in a couple of places now, but can't recall which was the most detailed. Take a look at the chapter titles with timestamps on these videos to find the explanation. It's either on: Singxer SA-1 review, Elekit TU-8200R Part 1 review, or Matrix Mini-i 3 Pro. I think it's probably in the TU-8200R Part 1 review, but not sure.
Hello. Any recommandation for guitar and digital piano player. I would like open back to keep an ear on my newborn. I play melodic metal, classical. And i m planning getting the motu M4 interface to upgrade my recording gears. I like the looks of the 600'series. Will it be good for playing instruments and wich one is best for this. Thank you!
I think an HD6XX or HD660S will be great. I choose those two because the HD6XX is super cheap these days and the 660S is apparently better than the older models (I'm yet to try one) so if you're going to spend more than the HD6XX, it would make the most sense. Another option you could consider though would be a Sundara or Verum 1. Both would also be great choices.
Thanks for the reply, i appreciate. Do you think that the 660s really worth the price over the 6xx. Also why not the 58x. Here in canada the 660s are almost 700$. How are the 58x or 560s for guitar playing.
I really didn't like the 58X, but love the HD6XX and the 560S is solid too. I can't comment on whether the 660S is worth the extra because I haven't yet tried them, but many of my patrons have good things to say about the 660S
Hey man, I'm a piano player and recently got a new yamaha digital piano. I was wondering if you would recommend this 58x for that use.. I want an open back/semi open back headphone (that doesn't bleed too much, so I can still play late at night) for around $200. (a pair that is going to last me for a while..) Please 🙏 any recommendations would be highly appreciated! Thank you!
Hi Aight, the amps built into electric pianos may not work so well with high impedance headphones like these. I'd suggest something like the HiFiMan HE400 or a lower impedance beyerdynamic model (i.e. DT880 32 ohm). There are also some nice Audio Technica options around this price, but they leak quite heavily.
I can't recall there being a splitter cable and I didn't find any reference to it when I was discussing the cable at the beginning of the review. Can you describe more what you mean (or what I said)?
Ah, got it. Some headphones are dual entry (a wire to each ear cup) while others are single entry (the wire goes into one cup and then there is internal wiring through the headband to get the signal to the other side). The benefit of dual entry is that you can run these headphones from balanced drive outputs (e.g. 4-pin XLR) rather than only from 6.3mm or 3.5mm outputs. There are pros and cons to both systems so it's not a reason to only by dual entry headphones, but people with balanced amps will generally want to use the balanced output and a dual entry headphone with the right cable allows them to do that.
Apparently it removes the sense of thickness in the sound. If you've got them it's worth a try, but if not I'd still recommend buying a different headphone
I've now caught up with your 58X review. That's the trick, a $150'ish USD headphone coupled with several thousand dollars of top-quality electronics. It's not as entirely unbalanced as it may first appear, at least it hasn't been in my experience. Experimenting with this quite a bit, now with headphone kit and for a very long time with two channel, I've mixed an matched cost and provenance to see what worked and what didn't (that is, what I liked and what I didn't). Always, with a goal towards value; that is, trying to get the best performance for the least cost. I learned a lot. Cost and performance (and provenance) aren't necessarily always positively correlated (and perhaps never with preference), and that synergy is critical. Now I'm going to have to revisit the 58X with my Bottlehead gear. I don't have an uber-cool Mainline, but I have stock a Crack and S3X, both fitted with their optional constant current sources. I got the 580X to test value. I found it a good headphone and a good value, but it has lots of competition. Of the headphones I've listened to, the budget headphone I'd steer people to is the Hifiman HE-400i/4XX. And now the Senn 560S or Drop x Hifiman 5XX could be contenders here, too, though I haven't listened to these myself. Or, I'd recommend just going for the Drop x Senn 6XX or Hifiman Sundara and call it a life. Though, with the performance/value of audio these days, anyone not so obsessed with sonics could get any of these (coupled with some entry level kit, like that from Schiit or many others) and be forever happy. They are all performing better and for less money than we could've even imagined a decade ago.
I agree. We're spoiler for choice these days and there's no guarantee that spending more money automatically gives better sound. I'd choose the Sundara over a number of more expensive headphones. That said, there is better sound available for more money so it comes down to what you said - finding the balance of price and performance that each person is satisfied with. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Are you going to review the hd6xx? because I have it and I really like it, I mean the moment you know and understand how the heaphone's sound signature is represented you will appreciate it.
Can you suggest some OTL tube amps that might pair well? I have the 580s as well as the 600s. I used to own the ASL MG Head tube amp, and that seemed to pair well.
Hi Mr Tim, I don't know a lot of OTL amps. Obviously the Bottlehead Crack is brilliant and pretty easy to build (on sale at the moment too), but if you want something pre-made, you might want to look at DarkVoice and maybe Woo Audio to see what they make. I don't have direct experience with either in terms of OTL amps so you'd need to do some reading/watching of reviews - sorry
I have HD600/650/58x paired with Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube, can´t recommend it enough (sound-wise). If you want an amp that is most likely stable out of the box, I´d say go for the Bottlehead Crack. There can, and may be issues with the Darkvoice with different tubes, QC is a bit of a mixed bag. Also I would suggest to buy from Aliexpress or Amazon rather than Drop, since Drop doesn´t have any guarantee for the product.
If you remove the foam from the driver grills I felt it improved the sound quality and stage quite a bit (not amazingly but did get the set closer to the 660 sound). Great review as always!
@@PassionforSound I get that! It's a super common thing in the 58x community that's worth mentioning to anyone that wants to explore them. Although with the new 560s I'm not sure how good of a value these are anymore to get into Senn. Looking forward to your opinion on those if you plan on reviewing them. (also looking forward to a review of the Bifrost if Schiit sends you one, particularly against the Ares as those are my two contenders)
I have exactly the same wallpaper, taken few years back at Pinnacles during sunset. I miss to be able to go out to take photos. Hopefully, no more further lockdown.
@@PassionforSound I don't believe so. I normally go out to take photos with my wife as part of our 'date". My instagram is: photographer.and.his.wife :)
hey man ive had these headphones since last july just recently my right headphone just went blank and i can no longer hear in the right ear anyways how to fix?
Hi Colin, I don't own them (they were on loan) so I don't have them here to look at (and I'm not a technician). I'd start by swapping the cable over (if it's possible) so the left side cable is plugged to the right cup. At least this will show if it's the headphones or the cable. From there you might need to contact the retailer about repairs.
Hi Erez, IIRC the Little Dot is an OTL amp, yes? If so, it should have a fairly high output impedance which seems to help the HD58X so it would work well, but I haven't personally tried it to confirm.
came across new headphones called Sivga Phoenix got some good reviews, and at $350 au is affordable and available in Australia. They look pretty nice too, could you please do a review on these as you seam to have honest and non hyped reviews unlike some thanks Steve.
Hi tooflybg, I don't know a lot of them, but I think Little Dot make an OTL amp and possibly Dark Voice too. Ultimately, you're looking for a tube amp with an output impedance of 50+ ohms (solid state amps rarely have high output impedance). Of course, the quality of the amp itself will influence the sound so do some reading / watching of reviews before buying, but the output impedance is the key
@@tooflybg I used to have HD58X (before replacing it with HD6xx). I agree DV336 makes it shine. However, you may want to find a more neutral sounding tubes. I recommend Tungsol 7236 for the power tube on DV for HD58X.
I have to agree with your review. Without enhancements, these headphones are sorely lacking. Are there headphones that you would recommend for gaming within the same price range up to 250 or so? (think where I can hear enemy footstep directions) I had a razer before these for gaming, and these are not working out and I wanna see if there is anything better before I buy a dac/amp.
I'd say to go for something like the HE400 from HiFiMan ($169). I've just completed my tests and note-taking to record the review on those this week so if you can wait a couple of weeks, I've got some thorough discussion and comparisons coming on those, but I think they'll fit the bill well for you.
Hi, I've not had a pair of decent headphones before, I've got a Yamaha as301 amp (it's not a dedicated headphone amp) and a Topping E30 dac. Open back probably (because only gonna use them at home) and my budget is about $300. Any suggestions? Maybe you've got some vids with info that would help me decide... Thanks bud, nice one for the vids.
Hi William, if we're talking $300 USD, then it's hard to go past either the HD6XX from Drop or the HiFiMan Sundara. Both are excellent and I've also reviewed both here on the channel if that's helpful 🙂
@@PassionforSound how about for comfort and immersion... If you want to put a pair on and just sink into the sound and hardly even feel the headphones on you cos they're so comfortable.. What kind of thing comes to mind for that?
I have to say that my desktop setup is the Fiio X3(I) coax out(I don't enjoy the DAP's dac chip sound in comparison to the Heresy; also it bypasses the X3's amp and DAC so I have 2X the battery life) ~> Modi 3+ DAC ~> Magni Heresy amp (low gain) ~> HD58x. I must say I am in audio heaven. I try to find fault across many styles of music as well as different lossless files but every checkbox (in my personal "happiness list" are all checked) To be very honest, I have money to purchase pretty much any equipment I want but I found my happy home so why make a move just to say I can. I truly believe this hobby is a little infested with confused people absorbing way too much data and info so they can't tell up from down.....It's all about having the music make you dance with a smile on your face and or take you away to "another" place. At high levels of audiophile, one wrong purchase in your "chain" as a mistake or bad calculation and your whole system is out of whack and not optimal. Great channel. Peace.
Hi Mikey, I completely agree that it is all about finding the setup that makes you happy. It's great to hear that you've found that! Your setup sounds like a fantastic chain and I imagine the Heresy is a great fit with the HD58X.
Sennheiser HD650/6xx/58x + custom cable + Darkvoice 336SE (OTL tube) + NOS or R2R DAC and you have an end game system in your hands for well under 1000$!!
That would definitely be a nice setup, but just to set expectations for other viewers reading this, I wouldn't describe it as endgame for everyone. For some people? Absolutely. It will depend on people's tastes and expectations though 🙂
@@PassionforSound Haha.. true, true! To me "end game" is a system that is good enough and gives you a hard time to find a better combo without spending huge amounts of money for the next clear improvement :)
Another spot-on video review. I got the 58X and it does sound appreciably better coming through the headphone jack of an old receiver (which I assume has high output impedance) vs. my Grace m9XX DAC/amp which like most DAC/amps has ultra-low output impedance.
Thanks, Steven. I'd expect an old receiver to have high OI like you said. They generally just chuck resistors on the speaker output signal to reduce volume to headphones and that raises OI. Glad you've found a good match for your 58Xs!
I like the HD58x. I drive it with my mobile phone and it performs very well. If I drive it with my Yamaha RX 496 rds (high output impedance) the bass is a little bit too overpronounced. The difference is about two dB.
It's interesting how a lot of reviews seem to have almost exactly opposite pros/cons and scores, I've never had any above 40$ headphone/s before I bought the HD58Xs and I love them, slightly increased bass in HQ and the detail for me is crazy. Oh and the fact that they don't feel wide makes me like them a lot more because they feel a lot more intimate like the sound is next to my ear but still layered and they even it easy to pinpoint sounds in games like crazy :D
It's a very subjective hobby, Rolands. I often have different opinions to other reviewers (but not always). What matters most is that you're enjoying them! 🙂
@@PassionforSound They should ship today, hopefully. If they are a bit clearer version of the 58x with more soundstage and deeper ear cups, they will be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm a bit skeptical of how over-hyped some of the youtubers made them seem, but if they are 80% of what they are hyping, they should be a great headphone. I returned the 58x due to getting a sore spot on my ears from touching the drivers due to wearing them all day for work and gaming.
@@johngotti8544 I ended up returning them and went with the Sundara and the TYGR 300R Instead. They are a great set but the TYGR is exceptional for imaging which makes gaming amazing and the Sundara is much more technical than both.
Hi Jeremy, I've been working for ages on improving my mic setup. I've had a newic in place for a while now so more recent videos should sound much better! 🙂 Thanks for watching!
Hi MrSplit, I've got a review of the HD6xx on the way, but haven't discussed a lot of amps in there because I found it pretty enjoyable with everything I used. I would say it will be great with amps like the Topping L30 and A90, Schiit Magni 3+ / Heresy or Magnius and definitely any of the Bottlehead tube amps (Crack, Mainline S.E.X., Crackatwoa). Sorry I can't be more specific. The only thing I'd avoid are thick, lush sounding amps because the 6xx is already quiteid-focussed.
My point was that ANY amp with a high output impedance should have this effect. That means Darkvoice 336SE, Bottlehead Crack, Singxer SA-1, and many others well under $1000 or even under $500.
Hi Robert, take a listen to my description of using the headphone with a high output impedance amplifier (towards the end). Short of modifying the headphone, that's the way to fix it based on my experience.
I agree with your assessment here. I think it’s a common recommendation to people who are getting into audio due to the low investment and generally approachable nature of the sound. Not necessarily the quality. I prefer both the he4xx and dt880 but feel that they (particularly the dt880) might be a little jarring for someone coming from iBuds or the like. The strange thing to me also was the perceived difference in bulls quality feel between the 58x and the 6xx. With the 6xx feeling vastly more solid than the 58x. In fact the 58x I had was that light in the plastic yokes that the cups would actually pop out if I tried to tilt the drivers. Great review as always
Thanks Wyda, that's a really good point about the jarring change from something like iBuds. I think the HE4xx might be the most approachable of this bunch, but I need to spend a little longer with them to decide for certain (and all based on my personal perception of course)
Passion for Sound nah I would agree. I think the he4xx has enough WOW to impress a new listener but has enough sound quality and enjoyment to be a keeper also. (Also in my subjective opinion). The 58x for me was a miss. I also disliked the 660s. Something in the tuning just didn’t sit right for me, while objectively I could say the 660 was better than say a 650, I simply prefer the 650. I actually had a mate listen to some th900s and my Ether2 a while back (Ether 2 being another regretted sale haha) and he was initially wowed by the th900 and didn’t think much of the Ether2. However one time he grew tired of the th900 but grew to appreciate the Ether2. This is another thing to consider with new listeners. Many people assume big bass and big treble and excitement is good sound. And heck if sure can be in the right mood or music, however I have found over my Journey some of the most boring cans initially turned out to be some of my favourites. My recommendation for people in the lower price bracket tends to be the Hd6xx or he4xx depending on what they are after. After more recently hearing the dt880 I think they are definitely now on that list also.
Great comment about the initial impression from dynamic tuning like the TH900. I personally think the TH-900s are a flawed headphone despite being beautiful. Their tuning is just too aggressive for me.
@@EvilDobermann I'm aware of the measurements regarding to this. However, they didn't consider the amount of frequencies' absorption. The reason the headphones sound different without the back foam is because the foam echoes low frequencies while absorbing high frequencies. That's the same effect the room has on speakers (although with 58x it's much less).
@@tydon19 I've written a post about a simple mod if you'd like to try it: forum.hifiguides.com/t/sennheiser-hd58x-stainless-steel-mod-easy-and-reversible/14907 Even with only removing the foam, I'd say yes. The best thing is that it's reversible. You're not losing anything by doing it.
Hi Steve, I'm not sure how, but Jeff obviously got them sent here. I had the same trouble as you though with the HD6xx so maybe we need to buy them secondhand to get them?
@@PassionforSound have he4xx and stax vintage lambda, so i was looking for a good dynamic headphone to complete the trio any suggestions???????under $500 au cheers.
I'd probably look at DT880 250/600 ohm (the Special Edition black ones I reviewed are sweet!) or perhaps some Grado 325s or the limited edition GH-3 (I haven't heard the GH-3)
That's a good thought and worth a try for the small price. Hopefully it's not some magic built into the Mainline high output mode, but I've never heard the same effect with any other headphone, including HD6xx.
To me, most of the headphones in this price need EQ to get the best listening experience. The treble of 880 is too bright to me. And you need to consider when use with a smart phone or portable DAC, you can get much more from Hd58x than DT880, because of the lower ohms and higher sensitivity. To me, basically those two headphone are for different market. If you buy DT880, you need to spend more on AMP/DAC.
I agree that neither headphone is perfect, but both can be driven by the same devices and both are intended as headphones for desktop listening rather than mobile use from smartphones
@@PassionforSound Of course, they both play better with a Dac/amp. But actually I get a pretty result from HD58x when play with a iphone. And compare to my dt770(80ohms), the hd58x(150 ohms) is easier to drive.
Yeah, the HD560S is more sensitive I think and requires more voltage than current compared to the DT770 so it'll be easier on the device driving it at normal volume levels
Sorry to hear you've bought them and are disappointed. I know some people are removing the foam inside the earcups (the piece between the driver and your ears). You could also try some EQing, but I haven't done this myself so I can't say which frequencies or how much boost/cut is required. Alternatively you could sell them (they should get a decent price) and grab something like the HiFiMan HE400i 2020 which is a much better headphone IMO (review coming up in the next few releases)
@@PassionforSound I’ll try returning them first. But I’m honestly kinda over buying headphones... I don’t think I’ll ever find a good pair to satisfy my needs.
You didn't listen, Dan 🙂 I said that ANY amp with high output impedance would do this. There are some very basic OTL amps on the market that will often be people's entry points into the hobby and would pair very well with the HD58X (although I still recommend a different starting headphone)
The balanced cables are an extra $45, you save $5 from the standalone price.
Oh, I thought it was cheap! Thanks for clarifying!
Just want to add though that as much as I love Sennheiser classic HD6xx line and the 58X, they do indeed sound oddly muddy at times where they shouldn't. Was listening to Sade in lossless and was surprised to hear how much cleaner Hifiman 400i sounded over HD6XX. I think it's a combination of a lack of bass quality and a general lack of transient response/speed of the drivers. They are good drivers and were cutting edge on release 20 years ago, but today they definitely show their age. I do think Beyerdynamic's classic dynamic drivers in their DT8/7/9xx line as well as the DT250 are actually technically superior performers. Unfortunately, the tonality of most of their headphones isn't entirely natural with rather strong treble emphasis and also too much bass on some of them, which leaves the mids a bit dull and lifeless. The DT250 is a stand out in that it is actually closer to HD6xx in tonality. On that headphone, you can hear the superior transients and resolution of the driver over the Sennheiser drivers pretty clearly. Unfortunately, DT250 suffers from some treble grain likely due to closed headphone reflections, so treble isn't as clean as on open backs. Yet, it is still impressive in its transient response. Contradictory, but that's what my ears are telling me. DT880 suffers a bit in imaging because of its semi-open design IMO. DT250 actually images better I think than the DT880, even though the latter has a larger, more open stage. DT990 doesn't have issues with imaging, but its frequency response is messed up - way too V-shaped.
just get superlux hd681. with a little bit of eq problem gone
Thanks for the suggestion, Floppy!
@@floppya7198 lol
What is fascinating is that at ASR, the HD58x tested incredibly well. The DT880 did not, at all. I have bought and listened to enough gear that i do defer to those ASR tests. I think there is simply quite a bit of subjectivity. We are driven, i think, by what we have heard or what we want to hear. I think too that the dacs and amps we use matters a lot. The music genres matter too. The point is i can see why these phones test well, but can yield poor reviews when some are testing them plugged into a laptop or a cellphone versus maybe running through a jotunheim.
Synergy and subjectivity are absolutely important - you're right.
you probably dont read the comments of these old videos but I wanted to tell you that your amplification recommendation was spot on. I plugged the headphones into a Yamaha rx-596 from 1998. headphone output .3v/680 ohms impedance. What a difference. They sound so open and rich. Delightful sound.
I sure do read them 😁
So glad I could provide that assistance and that you're enjoying your headphones with the proper amplification!
It's somewhat odd that you find them better out of a high impedance amp. All that does is add some more bass really. My 58X already has a little too much bass, so adding even more wouldn't help. Again, could there be significant unit variance between HD58X pairs? Perhaps, although Sennheiser is generally known for having good quality control.
There's a bit of a 5 kHz emphasis, which maybe is what you find to be irritating in the treble. However, it's very minor. Personally, I don't find that it sticks out too much at all. I mean if you compare that to the much stronger peaks of the DT880, it really is minor. It could just be that it stands out more because the rest of the treble is so linear. Or again, your unit could be significantly different from mine, which I actually doubt.
Bass is a bit muddy on the HD58X and also on the HD650/6XX. That's their main downside IMO. HD600 has somewhat tighter, cleaner low end, but still a little muddy. DT880 and many other headphones actually, have better bass quality. Hifiman HE-4XX has way better bass quality. However, in terms of low end warmth, I think the HD58X actually has too much of it. A few dB less below 150 Hz wouldn't hurt.
Fit is crucial with the HD58X. You should be wearing them pretty far back on your head, otherwise the treble and overall transparency will suffer. This is also true of HD6XX and 600.
Regarding the use of plastics. If they are the same quality as those on the HD650, it should last for many years unless significantly abused. HD650/600 are proven to be highly durable for normal use.
I find HD 6** actually more satisfying and compfy than the Beyers. Yes the overall design is quite old but I can wear them for hours and don't feel any discomfort, something that I can't say about DT880-600 or other Beyers. Plus the laid back and midrange centered sound signature doesn't draw attention attention. Mine are with SolderDude mod to lower the upper bass/low mids hump and makes them less muddy. The extra energy in top octaves and cleaness wouldn't hurt, but I can live with them. Plus they can easily powered by something like a cellphone or portable USB DAC. Yeah, the 6XX is a better choice.
I agree that the HD6XX are a better headphone than the DT880 both for sound and comfort I think. I like the DT880 250 ohm SE version (black), but I'd reach for the HD6XX more often if I owned them
As an HD58x owner I totally agree to description and the recommendation
Thanks for sharing your opinion, Astro!
You have a great work ethic taking the time to reply to so many comments, other reviewers could certainly learn a thing or two from you.
Thanks Fazz. I miss a few, but always try to respond to all comments 🙂
I recommend the HD58X to beginners because although not necessarily the best choice,. it can't possibly be a bad choice.
But I think it actually is when there are options like the DT880 and HE400/ HE4xx out there
@@PassionforSound I agree with you, but there’s a lot of people (like me) who can’t stand an attached cable... if DT 880 had a detachable cable it would make a lot of competitors obsolete.
That's a very good point and the HiFiMan build quality is a bit shit despite making great-sounding cans.
You're the only review I've seen or read that criticized their mids. So either your sense of hearing is off, or you just don't want to credit these for what they are: a medium tier headphone at an entry level price.
Hi Tim, I can only share what I hear and to me, they're just not that great across all genres. The mids can sound wonderful with certain genres and certain amps, but I believe there are better all-around headphones out there.
@@PassionforSound what are some better all around headphones in the $200-300 price range? I had a pair of QC35 II, Airpods Pro, and was considering buying a pair of Airpods Max. That's what brought me down the rabbit hole where I ended up purchasing the 58x this morning on Drop. Now I dont know if i made the right decision. I will be exclusively listening to these headphones on my 2020 Macbook Pro 16 and the ability to power them directly from my laptop, one of the reasons these were attractive to me as many reviewers said they didnt need an amp esp with the newer Macbook 16s. If you had $250-300 to spend, were only listening to Premium Spotify/Tidal Hifi via a Macbook 16, what headphones would you recommend? Comfort (i wear thick black rimmed glasses), non-fatiguing sound for all genres is basically what Im after and I was willing to spend up to $600 (when i was looking at the Airpods Max) but if something can come close to the sound of the HD58x for around the same price i would love to stay there as well. Any recommendation would be a great help! thanks for the help and your content!
That's a really interesting question... I think if I was looking for something better, easy to drive and not too different in price, I'd consider the AKG K712 Pro, Audeze LCD-1 (review coming soon, but also discussed them in my HD560S and Drop Panda reviews), Ollo S4X, Monolith M1060 V2. I think the Ollo and K712 Pro will probably work best with your glasses while the LCD-1s might be a problem with the glasses. The K712 Pro are also improved by adding the Yaxi Comfort pads for the K712 and these will help further with your glasses I think.
@@PassionforSound similar in price the 712 pro? Can’t be serious? 712 pro are more than double the price here in Australia compared to the drop 58x. Nearest in price would be an entry level hifiman. Very little in the 58x price range could even come close
Not everyone is in Australia, chefgav. It was one option among many options around the person's price range.
Have you tried the HD560s?
I'm trying to decide between these two...
This seems to have better build quality, but I hear the soundstage and positional audio is better with the HD560s.
This is pretty important for me as I plan to use them for games, not just music.
Yes. I've reviewed the HD560S too. I think they're the better headphone. The treble is brighter so keep that in mind, but the bass is also better and the imaging / staging too
@@PassionforSound
Why couldn't they give it a better build lol
Most people say HD560S is better sounding, but why would they have a worse build than the HD58X or HD6XX which are around the same price ....
It all comes down to price, I think.
@@PassionforSound
The HD58XX and HD560S are the same price right now. Before, the HD560S actually cost like $40 more.
Interesting... I didn't check before posting that and I can't remember how both headphones feel in terms of build quality.
May I add another interesting observation? Sorry for making too many comments - I really don't mean to flood the comment section. lol I also own an older HD555 model from around 2006. It's a 50 Ohm driver and is supposed to be a mid range Sennheiser dynamic below the HD6xx line in quality. I modded it a little by removing the "sound reflector" piece of foam from behind the drivers. Well, let me tell you - the bass texture on my HD555 is actually superior to than of the HD650 and 58X. I can hear more nuance on the HD555, even though HD6XX sounds tighter. What does that mean? Well, HD555 driver is newer than the HD6xx ones in design, so that can account for something. Also, perhaps extra distortion in the bass on the HD555 is fooling me into thinking that it has more detail there - that's a real possibility as well, although I tend to listen at pretty low volumes where distortion shouldn't really be audible. Housing design matters too. Do HD6xx and 58X need a special amp to unlock better bass? Well maybe but I doubt that my THX789 isn't up to the task already. It's clear to my ears that my HD555s just sound somewhat clearer in the low end vs HD58X and 6xx, even though they seem less controlled. The mids and highs however, are indeed superior on the HD6xx by a good margin, no doubt. Soundstage, however, is also better on HD555s - it's more open sounding. So overall, HD6xx and 58X are better, but I still pick HD555s up sometimes as they do sound better to me in some cases. I compared my HD555s to a Focal Elex as well and noted that they actually have quite similar signatures, but the Elex is significantly better in the treble and overall clarity. My HD555s are like a "baby Elex" of sorts. :D
I'm an HD580 owner, are they similar to the HD58X? Mine are 25+ years old & I've recently replaced the cables & ear + headband pads. I checked the Bottlehead website, they don't state the Crack's output impedance, do you know the optimum output impedance?
I've never heard the true HD580 (vs Hd58x I mean) so I can't say if they're the same, but most high impedance Sennheisers will play beautifully with OTL amps.
As for the output impedance, my understanding is that it varies a bit with the tubes used, but I think it hovers around 50-60 ohms depending on the tube.
Ah ha, when building DIY amplifiers years ago I found a 100 Ohm + 100 Ohm potential divider worked well with most headphones. That would put the output impedance at 50 Ohm. I believe I'm all set. Thanks!
I just purchased a pair of these yesterday after hearing a few seconds of a song on the pair my son just got. For me, an anti-sound snob, they simply blew my mind. I couldn't believe what I was hearing for under $200, so I was beyond sold. I really do appreciate your expertise, but for me, if sound gets "better" than this, I don't want to hear it...it's demons. I'm 45yo, so I'm from the era of cassette tapes...the variance between the two is a quantum leap to put it mildly, so anything else would be a radical example of diminishing marginal utility (I know...but you know what I mean), & again, giving these headphones to me is akin to taking Yogi Bear to The French Laundry...he's happy with a plain ol' pic-a-nic basket.
Lol. Nice analogy, Scott. I'm so glad to hear how much you're enjoying them!
lol Scott you devil
Hi Lachlan, I have a pair of 58x with a dragonfly red, and thinking of getting a Mojo 2 to pair with it. Do you think that the Mojo 2 would fix that problem that you described the high imp amp would? (At some stage in the future I will upgrade to a hifiman ananda). Cheers
The Mojo 2 is a nice upgrade over the DF Red, but it won't alter the sound the same way as the high output impedance. I'd probably suggest upgrading the headphones first
What about something like the Schitt Loki EQ to boost some of the areas that you identified as being a bit hazy or thin?
Hi Ryan, you could absolutely EQ it. I don't address EQing in my reviews generally because I don't use them for my normal listening, but it's a completely valid option 🙂
It's interesting to me how important bass is to different people. For me, I sold my HD600 b/c after 15 years I never liked the bass even when driven with amps ... to be more specific, it didn't make my toe tap or my head bob. Then I heard the 58x had more bass, at the price of losing some upper mid presence. That was a tradeoff I was more than willing to make. Hearing music is not my purpose... my purpose is to move to music. And to even add more appeal, they can be driven by an iphone dongle and still show good bass.
Funnily enough, that's the same reason I didn't keep the Moondrop Starfield. I found the Simgot MT3 to have so much more pleasing bass, so kept those.
But i'm not a complete basshead. I didn't like the TFZ No.. 3, and I prefer the Simgot to the Audiofly AF100 Mk2.
It's such a personal thing, isn't it? I'm like you in most cases in that I like to be emotionally connected to the music, not separated from it and analysing it. I think bass impact and midrange weight are very important in the overall enjoyment of music.
Have you ever heard the Sundara? To me they're the perfect engaging option at the approximate price of the HD58X/HD6XX
@@PassionforSound Yes, I think you've reviewed the Sundara, right? The thing is I'm trying to reduce "stuff" I don't use in my life right now, and the 58x fits me just right... so I just don't have motivation to add to a "collection".
If you're happy then stick with it. Chasing the "perfect sound" is a bit of a fallacy in my experience. Everything has its trade-offs with audio so stick with what you have and just enjoy the tunes!
I agree with the video. I enjoyed 58x until i bought iLoud micro monitors. Since then i started to feel the lack of air and the lack of articulation some bass sounds. Not sure what shall i do now to get back to listening headphones. I doubt about getting 560s... Maybe i should go with Sundara..
The Sundaras are great, Ole. I haven't heard the 560s yet to compare, but I'll gladly recommend the Sundaras to anyone in that budget range
Hi, I have those 58X for over two years, great cans but I want to do an upgrade, most of the time I listen metal, to traditional heavy to modern progressive, occasionally classical and some trance, I'm between the Sundaras and the HD 600, which one do you recommend me? And do you think that it worth it?
That's a tough question. I think I'd probably choose the Sundara for the better bass reproduction. That said, the HD600 might have a little more bite in the treble. Both are excellent so perhaps decide based on whether you prefer the attack in the treble or extension in the bass. Hope that helps!
@@PassionforSound it does, thanks and have a nice week, cheers from México!
You too!
How do the Sundaras compare to the 58X ? (if you were able to get them)
@@Onibaka Hi, I haven't purchased it yet
After I did simple modification (adding mesh for magnet protection, stick with felt pad with 10mm hole on the center, and back sponge removed), I simply cannot believe how transparent sound can be!
Just watched this on a 58x.. Save for the 650/6xx imo if you're only getting one, but these are cheaper, a bit lighter and can be driven well by something btr3k.
Bass a bit deeper and tigher so some might prefer these but 650s are a bit magic
Would recommend over the he4xx, though, those are fun for blasting out a few metal tracks then I have to take them off. Not to mention they need quite a bit more power
I probably prefer the HE4XX, but both have their shortcomings (as do most cheaper headphones)
@@PassionforSound yep, and everyone's ears are different! The HE4xx is probably a more interesting set, they certainly have more WOW factor and arguably better value but Sennheisers are more of an all rounder if you plan to own just one set.
Interesting. I'd go the opposite way and recommend the HE4XX as the all rounder. Funny how different we all are 😃
@@PassionforSound I need to give them more of a chance, tbf. Guess I'll bring em out this evening.
Would the Max Book Pro Max which has high impedance out drive these 58X well and sound great ? Also. Have you tried the 6XX. ? Maybe they sound better and closer to the HD-650?
The 6XX are definitely the better headphone IMO - I've got a review of them on the channel too.
As for the Mac Book Pro Max, I haven't tried one so I can't comment on its sound quality running the headphones directly
I have them, 58X, with 'SolderDude mod - felt with 4mm hole on the back of the driver - less 150Hz hump, more 3-4ks, and 3 layers of ladies stockings instead of foam covering the driver. I prefer their warm laid back sound to DT880-600, which I find lacking in mids and low highs and overly bright in the top. Then, I have to agree that HD 58X could be cleaner in upper registers. Yes, sax sounds very nice as it does on 6XX. Also comfort wise HD 6** series beats the Beyers by miles at least in my book - I find Sennheisers have more space and my ears don't touch the driver covers. They're lighter as well and padding on top of the head adds to the comfort. I wonder if changing to silver or silver plated cables could help with the overly laid back nature/vail of these headphones (6** series)?
Thanks for sharing your experiences, pliedtka. I think the 6XX are a great headphone and significantly better than the stock 58X. I'd probably not bother with cable changes on the 58X and instead go straight to the 6XX with the extra money. Upgrading the 6XX cables could be a nice idea though because they do scale very well.
Don't say that, I might eventually get the 6XX. Or Sundara, but the QC and warranty is kind of scary - throw aways like household appliances, maybe depending what of the week it was made ;) Unfortunately you have to pay extra for well made Chinese products, a friend of mine designs Hi-End loudspeaker transducers and there's a lot of junk coming from China depending on the manufacturing house. Then there's also ATH-R70 (with the wings) - maybe you should check it out for review.
I actually owned the R70 for a while and was going to review it, but I ended up selling it because it wasn't that great. Not bad, just not something I felt compelled to find time to review.
@@PassionforSound
Thanks, was thinking about getting one. R70 is out the list.
Glad I could help
Could you speak on why the a higher output impedance would affect sound in the headphone?
Sure thing. I have covered it in a couple of places now, but can't recall which was the most detailed. Take a look at the chapter titles with timestamps on these videos to find the explanation. It's either on: Singxer SA-1 review, Elekit TU-8200R Part 1 review, or Matrix Mini-i 3 Pro. I think it's probably in the TU-8200R Part 1 review, but not sure.
Hello.
Any recommandation for guitar and digital piano player. I would like open back to keep an ear on my newborn. I play melodic metal, classical. And i m planning getting the motu M4 interface to upgrade my recording gears. I like the looks of the 600'series. Will it be good for playing instruments and wich one is best for this. Thank you!
I think an HD6XX or HD660S will be great. I choose those two because the HD6XX is super cheap these days and the 660S is apparently better than the older models (I'm yet to try one) so if you're going to spend more than the HD6XX, it would make the most sense.
Another option you could consider though would be a Sundara or Verum 1. Both would also be great choices.
Thanks for the reply, i appreciate. Do you think that the 660s really worth the price over the 6xx. Also why not the 58x. Here in canada the 660s are almost 700$. How are the 58x or 560s for guitar playing.
I really didn't like the 58X, but love the HD6XX and the 560S is solid too. I can't comment on whether the 660S is worth the extra because I haven't yet tried them, but many of my patrons have good things to say about the 660S
Hey man, I'm a piano player and recently got a new yamaha digital piano. I was wondering if you would recommend this 58x for that use.. I want an open back/semi open back headphone (that doesn't bleed too much, so I can still play late at night) for around $200. (a pair that is going to last me for a while..) Please 🙏 any recommendations would be highly appreciated! Thank you!
Hi Aight, the amps built into electric pianos may not work so well with high impedance headphones like these. I'd suggest something like the HiFiMan HE400 or a lower impedance beyerdynamic model (i.e. DT880 32 ohm). There are also some nice Audio Technica options around this price, but they leak quite heavily.
noob question: why is there a splitter cable? what does it do and what's the difference between one normal 3.5mm cable found on generic headphones?
I can't recall there being a splitter cable and I didn't find any reference to it when I was discussing the cable at the beginning of the review. Can you describe more what you mean (or what I said)?
@@PassionforSound well idk what its called, i just assumed. i mean why is there 2 cables coming from the headphones instead of 1
Ah, got it. Some headphones are dual entry (a wire to each ear cup) while others are single entry (the wire goes into one cup and then there is internal wiring through the headband to get the signal to the other side).
The benefit of dual entry is that you can run these headphones from balanced drive outputs (e.g. 4-pin XLR) rather than only from 6.3mm or 3.5mm outputs. There are pros and cons to both systems so it's not a reason to only by dual entry headphones, but people with balanced amps will generally want to use the balanced output and a dual entry headphone with the right cable allows them to do that.
@@PassionforSound thank you, has helped
I've heard of people pulling out the foam as a sort of "mod" for them. Does it really improve the sound?
Apparently it removes the sense of thickness in the sound. If you've got them it's worth a try, but if not I'd still recommend buying a different headphone
Yes
The sound is more open and transparent
I've now caught up with your 58X review. That's the trick, a $150'ish USD headphone coupled with several thousand dollars of top-quality electronics. It's not as entirely unbalanced as it may first appear, at least it hasn't been in my experience. Experimenting with this quite a bit, now with headphone kit and for a very long time with two channel, I've mixed an matched cost and provenance to see what worked and what didn't (that is, what I liked and what I didn't). Always, with a goal towards value; that is, trying to get the best performance for the least cost. I learned a lot. Cost and performance (and provenance) aren't necessarily always positively correlated (and perhaps never with preference), and that synergy is critical.
Now I'm going to have to revisit the 58X with my Bottlehead gear. I don't have an uber-cool Mainline, but I have stock a Crack and S3X, both fitted with their optional constant current sources. I got the 580X to test value. I found it a good headphone and a good value, but it has lots of competition. Of the headphones I've listened to, the budget headphone I'd steer people to is the Hifiman HE-400i/4XX. And now the Senn 560S or Drop x Hifiman 5XX could be contenders here, too, though I haven't listened to these myself. Or, I'd recommend just going for the Drop x Senn 6XX or Hifiman Sundara and call it a life. Though, with the performance/value of audio these days, anyone not so obsessed with sonics could get any of these (coupled with some entry level kit, like that from Schiit or many others) and be forever happy. They are all performing better and for less money than we could've even imagined a decade ago.
I agree. We're spoiler for choice these days and there's no guarantee that spending more money automatically gives better sound. I'd choose the Sundara over a number of more expensive headphones. That said, there is better sound available for more money so it comes down to what you said - finding the balance of price and performance that each person is satisfied with. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Are you going to review the hd6xx? because I have it and I really like it, I mean the moment you know and understand how the heaphone's sound signature is represented you will appreciate it.
I have a pair here right now thanks to a friend who lent them to me. I've owned the HD650s previously so I'm expecting a familiar sound.
Can you suggest some OTL tube amps that might pair well? I have the 580s as well as the 600s. I used to own the ASL MG Head tube amp, and that seemed to pair well.
Hi Mr Tim, I don't know a lot of OTL amps. Obviously the Bottlehead Crack is brilliant and pretty easy to build (on sale at the moment too), but if you want something pre-made, you might want to look at DarkVoice and maybe Woo Audio to see what they make. I don't have direct experience with either in terms of OTL amps so you'd need to do some reading/watching of reviews - sorry
I have HD600/650/58x paired with Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube, can´t recommend it enough (sound-wise). If you want an amp that is most likely stable out of the box, I´d say go for the Bottlehead Crack. There can, and may be issues with the Darkvoice with different tubes, QC is a bit of a mixed bag. Also I would suggest to buy from Aliexpress or Amazon rather than Drop, since Drop doesn´t have any guarantee for the product.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts / experiences, Nicky
If you remove the foam from the driver grills I felt it improved the sound quality and stage quite a bit (not amazingly but did get the set closer to the 660 sound). Great review as always!
Hi Ben, thanks for the info. They weren't mine so I wasn't game to start modding them 😉
@@PassionforSound I get that! It's a super common thing in the 58x community that's worth mentioning to anyone that wants to explore them. Although with the new 560s I'm not sure how good of a value these are anymore to get into Senn. Looking forward to your opinion on those if you plan on reviewing them. (also looking forward to a review of the Bifrost if Schiit sends you one, particularly against the Ares as those are my two contenders)
Recorded the Bifrost 2 review yesterday, including my thoughts vs the Ares 🙂
If you take off the foam, hair gets directly into the driver and rattles. Not really worth having to do that every other day
Hello is it worth doing that?
I have exactly the same wallpaper, taken few years back at Pinnacles during sunset. I miss to be able to go out to take photos. Hopefully, no more further lockdown.
I hear you! The Pinnacles are awesome! I wonder if we've been out taking photos at the same place and time ever?
@@PassionforSound I don't believe so. I normally go out to take photos with my wife as part of our 'date". My instagram is: photographer.and.his.wife :)
Nice! I'll give you a follow...
hey man ive had these headphones since last july just recently my right headphone just went blank and i can no longer hear in the right ear anyways how to fix?
Hi Colin, I don't own them (they were on loan) so I don't have them here to look at (and I'm not a technician). I'd start by swapping the cable over (if it's possible) so the left side cable is plugged to the right cup. At least this will show if it's the headphones or the cable. From there you might need to contact the retailer about repairs.
Will the little dot mk2 make a good match with the HD58X?
Hi Erez, IIRC the Little Dot is an OTL amp, yes? If so, it should have a fairly high output impedance which seems to help the HD58X so it would work well, but I haven't personally tried it to confirm.
came across new headphones called Sivga Phoenix got some good reviews, and at $350 au is affordable and available in Australia. They look pretty nice too, could you please do a review on these as you seam to have honest and non hyped reviews unlike some thanks Steve.
Thanks for the tip, Steve. I'll look into them
Hello, great vid ! Can you please name some more widely-available amplifiers, that are well suited for the HD58X
Hi tooflybg, I don't know a lot of them, but I think Little Dot make an OTL amp and possibly Dark Voice too. Ultimately, you're looking for a tube amp with an output impedance of 50+ ohms (solid state amps rarely have high output impedance). Of course, the quality of the amp itself will influence the sound so do some reading / watching of reviews before buying, but the output impedance is the key
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the answer, I will look into your suggestions
@@tooflybg I used to have HD58X (before replacing it with HD6xx). I agree DV336 makes it shine. However, you may want to find a more neutral sounding tubes. I recommend Tungsol 7236 for the power tube on DV for HD58X.
I have a Topping DX3 Pro, works well.
I have to agree with your review. Without enhancements, these headphones are sorely lacking. Are there headphones that you would recommend for gaming within the same price range up to 250 or so? (think where I can hear enemy footstep directions) I had a razer before these for gaming, and these are not working out and I wanna see if there is anything better before I buy a dac/amp.
I'd say to go for something like the HE400 from HiFiMan ($169). I've just completed my tests and note-taking to record the review on those this week so if you can wait a couple of weeks, I've got some thorough discussion and comparisons coming on those, but I think they'll fit the bill well for you.
@@PassionforSound Patiently waiting for your review. Thank you for your suggestion and quick reply. I'll look into them now.
When you get a hd560s in hand, please compare it to the DT880
I definitely will! 🙂
@@PassionforSound what’s your take on 58x vs 6xx?
6xx is a great headphone. 58x is deeply flawed (IMO). My 6xx review is coming very soon!
Thanks for the track recommendation. Flamenco Sketches by Miles Davis playing on my headphones right now.
Nice. Enjoy!
Hi, I've not had a pair of decent headphones before, I've got a Yamaha as301 amp (it's not a dedicated headphone amp) and a Topping E30 dac. Open back probably (because only gonna use them at home) and my budget is about $300. Any suggestions? Maybe you've got some vids with info that would help me decide... Thanks bud, nice one for the vids.
Hi William, if we're talking $300 USD, then it's hard to go past either the HD6XX from Drop or the HiFiMan Sundara. Both are excellent and I've also reviewed both here on the channel if that's helpful 🙂
@@PassionforSound how about for comfort and immersion... If you want to put a pair on and just sink into the sound and hardly even feel the headphones on you cos they're so comfortable.. What kind of thing comes to mind for that?
That's kind of what I like in a headphone so either of those two will deliver nicely. I'd personally lean towards the Sundara out of the two.
@@PassionforSound ok. Have a good one. Thanks 🖖
You too 😃
Love your channel, subscribed. Try the tea bag mod on these, really helps!
Glad you like the channel, Erik. Thanks for the sub!! I don't own these so can't try the mod, but thanks for the tip!
I have to say that my desktop setup is the Fiio X3(I) coax out(I don't enjoy the DAP's dac chip sound in comparison to the Heresy; also it bypasses the X3's amp and DAC so I have 2X the battery life) ~> Modi 3+ DAC ~> Magni Heresy amp (low gain) ~> HD58x.
I must say I am in audio heaven. I try to find fault across many styles of music as well as different lossless files but every checkbox (in my personal "happiness list" are all checked) To be very honest, I have money to purchase pretty much any equipment I want but I found my happy home so why make a move just to say I can. I truly believe this hobby is a little infested with confused people absorbing way too much data and info so they can't tell up from down.....It's all about having the music make you dance with a smile on your face and or take you away to "another" place. At high levels of audiophile, one wrong purchase in your "chain" as a mistake or bad calculation and your whole system is out of whack and not optimal. Great channel. Peace.
Hi Mikey, I completely agree that it is all about finding the setup that makes you happy. It's great to hear that you've found that! Your setup sounds like a fantastic chain and I imagine the Heresy is a great fit with the HD58X.
How would these work with Zen stack ??
They'll work fine, but I haven't tried the combo so can't speak to the specific sound quality. There's no issues with power or impedance though
Sennheiser HD650/6xx/58x + custom cable + Darkvoice 336SE (OTL tube) + NOS or R2R DAC and you have an end game system in your hands for well under 1000$!!
That would definitely be a nice setup, but just to set expectations for other viewers reading this, I wouldn't describe it as endgame for everyone. For some people? Absolutely. It will depend on people's tastes and expectations though 🙂
@@PassionforSound Haha.. true, true! To me "end game" is a system that is good enough and gives you a hard time to find a better combo without spending huge amounts of money for the next clear improvement :)
And that's absolutely fine! 😁 I don't want to create any pressure for anyone to feel like they have to buy anything more than what makes them happy 🙂🙂
Another spot-on video review. I got the 58X and it does sound appreciably better coming through the headphone jack of an old receiver (which I assume has high output impedance) vs. my Grace m9XX DAC/amp which like most DAC/amps has ultra-low output impedance.
Thanks, Steven. I'd expect an old receiver to have high OI like you said. They generally just chuck resistors on the speaker output signal to reduce volume to headphones and that raises OI.
Glad you've found a good match for your 58Xs!
@@PassionforSound Yes, now I have an 18-pound headphone amplifier but I guess that's okay.
😂
I like the HD58x. I drive it with my mobile phone and it performs very well. If I drive it with my Yamaha RX 496 rds (high output impedance) the bass is a little bit too overpronounced. The difference is about two dB.
Glad you are enjoying them!
It's interesting how a lot of reviews seem to have almost exactly opposite pros/cons and scores, I've never had any above 40$ headphone/s before I bought the HD58Xs and I love them, slightly increased bass in HQ and the detail for me is crazy.
Oh and the fact that they don't feel wide makes me like them a lot more because they feel a lot more intimate like the sound is next to my ear but still layered and they even it easy to pinpoint sounds in games like crazy :D
It's a very subjective hobby, Rolands. I often have different opinions to other reviewers (but not always).
What matters most is that you're enjoying them! 🙂
how do these compare to do the hd598 and akg 7xx?
Sorry - I haven't heard either recently enough to comment
Waiting for your review to pull the trigger on the A90 and sell the 789 😃
Haha. It's coming next Saturday. All loaded up up and ready to go
I just ordered the HD 560s, looking forward to your review on them.
Hi Jason, I've seen some other reviewers raving about them so I'm definitely curious. Enjoy your new cans!
@@PassionforSound They should ship today, hopefully. If they are a bit clearer version of the 58x with more soundstage and deeper ear cups, they will be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm a bit skeptical of how over-hyped some of the youtubers made them seem, but if they are 80% of what they are hyping, they should be a great headphone.
I returned the 58x due to getting a sore spot on my ears from touching the drivers due to wearing them all day for work and gaming.
Hi Jason, I expect you'll find them noticeably better than the HD58X. Hopefully the comfort is better too!
How are they holding up today your HD 560s and what are driving them with 🤷♂️
@@johngotti8544 I ended up returning them and went with the Sundara and the TYGR 300R Instead. They are a great set but the TYGR is exceptional for imaging which makes gaming amazing and the Sundara is much more technical than both.
Thank you for the review ... I don’t what your using to speak into but it sounds very dark ? the music sounds good though ....
Hi Jeremy, I've been working for ages on improving my mic setup. I've had a newic in place for a while now so more recent videos should sound much better! 🙂
Thanks for watching!
Can You give us recommendation for a few tube / solid amps that will suit with HD6xx?
Hi MrSplit, I've got a review of the HD6xx on the way, but haven't discussed a lot of amps in there because I found it pretty enjoyable with everything I used. I would say it will be great with amps like the Topping L30 and A90, Schiit Magni 3+ / Heresy or Magnius and definitely any of the Bottlehead tube amps (Crack, Mainline S.E.X., Crackatwoa). Sorry I can't be more specific. The only thing I'd avoid are thick, lush sounding amps because the 6xx is already quiteid-focussed.
@@PassionforSound Thank You for the reply! I'm looking forward for the review of HD6xx!
I'm editing it this week for release in a couple of weeks from now.
A $1300 fix for a $170 headphone . . . genius.
My point was that ANY amp with a high output impedance should have this effect. That means Darkvoice 336SE, Bottlehead Crack, Singxer SA-1, and many others well under $1000 or even under $500.
You can get the Darkvoice for around 200$, which I did. Great product for the price, absolutely awesome combo sound-wise and doesn´t break the bank.
I am sorry but where is the "how to fix?" there is no section where you fix anything.
Hi Robert, take a listen to my description of using the headphone with a high output impedance amplifier (towards the end). Short of modifying the headphone, that's the way to fix it based on my experience.
I agree with your assessment here. I think it’s a common recommendation to people who are getting into audio due to the low investment and generally approachable nature of the sound. Not necessarily the quality.
I prefer both the he4xx and dt880 but feel that they (particularly the dt880) might be a little jarring for someone coming from iBuds or the like.
The strange thing to me also was the perceived difference in bulls quality feel between the 58x and the 6xx. With the 6xx feeling vastly more solid than the 58x. In fact the 58x I had was that light in the plastic yokes that the cups would actually pop out if I tried to tilt the drivers.
Great review as always
Thanks Wyda, that's a really good point about the jarring change from something like iBuds. I think the HE4xx might be the most approachable of this bunch, but I need to spend a little longer with them to decide for certain (and all based on my personal perception of course)
Passion for Sound nah I would agree. I think the he4xx has enough WOW to impress a new listener but has enough sound quality and enjoyment to be a keeper also. (Also in my subjective opinion).
The 58x for me was a miss. I also disliked the 660s. Something in the tuning just didn’t sit right for me, while objectively I could say the 660 was better than say a 650, I simply prefer the 650.
I actually had a mate listen to some th900s and my Ether2 a while back (Ether 2 being another regretted sale haha) and he was initially wowed by the th900 and didn’t think much of the Ether2. However one time he grew tired of the th900 but grew to appreciate the Ether2.
This is another thing to consider with new listeners. Many people assume big bass and big treble and excitement is good sound. And heck if sure can be in the right mood or music, however I have found over my Journey some of the most boring cans initially turned out to be some of my favourites.
My recommendation for people in the lower price bracket tends to be the Hd6xx or he4xx depending on what they are after. After more recently hearing the dt880 I think they are definitely now on that list also.
Great comment about the initial impression from dynamic tuning like the TH900. I personally think the TH-900s are a flawed headphone despite being beautiful. Their tuning is just too aggressive for me.
Passion for Sound I agree completely. Stunning pair of cans, but even though still far from perfect I much prefer the th610
Remove the back foam and they'll sound better.
Thanks Hamed, but they're not mine so I wasn't going to mess with them
@@EvilDobermann I'm aware of the measurements regarding to this. However, they didn't consider the amount of frequencies' absorption. The reason the headphones sound different without the back foam is because the foam echoes low frequencies while absorbing high frequencies. That's the same effect the room has on speakers (although with 58x it's much less).
Hello is it worth doing that?
@@tydon19 I've written a post about a simple mod if you'd like to try it:
forum.hifiguides.com/t/sennheiser-hd58x-stainless-steel-mod-easy-and-reversible/14907
Even with only removing the foam, I'd say yes. The best thing is that it's reversible. You're not losing anything by doing it.
@@hamedshahr Thanks another question will it be the same style/design as HD6xx like without the foam protection for drivers?
cannot get them in Australia so this is just a tease
Hi Steve, I'm not sure how, but Jeff obviously got them sent here. I had the same trouble as you though with the HD6xx so maybe we need to buy them secondhand to get them?
@@PassionforSound i would not buy other peoples problems (no warranty) or covid germs
Fair point. There are better headphones available for the same price anyway - DT880, HE4xx, etc.
@@PassionforSound have he4xx and stax vintage lambda, so i was looking for a good dynamic headphone to complete the trio any suggestions???????under $500 au cheers.
I'd probably look at DT880 250/600 ohm (the Special Edition black ones I reviewed are sweet!) or perhaps some Grado 325s or the limited edition GH-3 (I haven't heard the GH-3)
Maybe the fix then is to get an impedance adapte to increase the output impedance. They are on AliExpress and really cheap. Will give it a try
That's a good thought and worth a try for the small price. Hopefully it's not some magic built into the Mainline high output mode, but I've never heard the same effect with any other headphone, including HD6xx.
To me, most of the headphones in this price need EQ to get the best listening experience. The treble of 880 is too bright to me.
And you need to consider when use with a smart phone or portable DAC, you can get much more from Hd58x than DT880, because of the lower ohms and higher sensitivity.
To me, basically those two headphone are for different market. If you buy DT880, you need to spend more on AMP/DAC.
I agree that neither headphone is perfect, but both can be driven by the same devices and both are intended as headphones for desktop listening rather than mobile use from smartphones
@@PassionforSound Of course, they both play better with a Dac/amp. But actually I get a pretty result from HD58x when play with a iphone. And compare to my dt770(80ohms), the hd58x(150 ohms) is easier to drive.
Yeah, the HD560S is more sensitive I think and requires more voltage than current compared to the DT770 so it'll be easier on the device driving it at normal volume levels
Is it just me or these headphones sound muffled?
Not just you. I think they lack some openness in the upper registers.
@@PassionforSound anyway on fixing this? I’m having really bad buyers remorse. I was expecting to be wowed by all the positive reviews
Sorry to hear you've bought them and are disappointed. I know some people are removing the foam inside the earcups (the piece between the driver and your ears). You could also try some EQing, but I haven't done this myself so I can't say which frequencies or how much boost/cut is required. Alternatively you could sell them (they should get a decent price) and grab something like the HiFiMan HE400i 2020 which is a much better headphone IMO (review coming up in the next few releases)
@@PassionforSound I’ll try returning them first. But I’m honestly kinda over buying headphones... I don’t think I’ll ever find a good pair to satisfy my needs.
Hope you have some luck returning them. What type of sound are you looking for and what's your budget?
The mid-tro looks really weird, I tot that the video is over
Sorry about that! I kind of liked this one...
For me i found them to be garbage sounding. Extremely muffled and boomy. 560s runs circle round this headphone
Yeah, I wasn't much a fan either ☹️
How to fix an entry-level audiophile headphone for newcomers that are on a tight budget?
*Get an amp that costs twice the headphone price!*
You didn't listen, Dan 🙂
I said that ANY amp with high output impedance would do this. There are some very basic OTL amps on the market that will often be people's entry points into the hobby and would pair very well with the HD58X (although I still recommend a different starting headphone)
@@PassionforSound for example? (Of Amp)
I stopped watching when he mentioned dt880
Not sure why that is, but sorry 🙂