Hello, Benjamin, I've been watching you for many years. As chance would have it, I'm doing my undergrad dissertation right now on Multituberculates, more specifically on the Kogaionidae, a group that was endemic to the Hateg Island on the territory of what is now Romania. Very interesting video and the arguments you made for their decline make plenty of sense. Keep us updated on your research and greetings from Europe.
Ah, speaking as a rank-amateur who has a real interest in palaeontology I admit to having a 'soft spot' for Multituberculates. But it seems there's very little good digestible information out there. Thank you for this video. PS: I've never gotten my head around why Monotremes, and especially Multituberculates, are considered Mammals when there are lineages seemingly more closely related to Therians that aren't. A follow-up video on that subject that would be wonderful if you are minded. Thank you.
I thoroughly enjoy both your geology and paleontology videos, and am so happy to see you are going to be able to get back to a more normal schedule as we all emerge from the pandemic. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much for the informative video. As others have chimed in there is a paucity of good videos and podcasts on synapsids/mammalian evolution. Fewer yet in the Cenozoic time period. I loved the hope that you put out there at the end that perhaps there may yet be multituberculates alive today- hidden in plain sight as it were just like the Laotian Rock Rat is. I have had similar hopes myself :)
Monotremes have slow metabolisms maybe the multituberculates did too, so slowly petered out due to competing more active mammels. But your theory does sound more likely.
Love your channel and when you talk about mammals! I'm currently studying Biology and I want to be a paleontologist and study South American Mammals from Mesozoic to Cenozoic.
More videos on mammal evolution, please! So hard to find good information the early cenozoic and mammal evolution. Everyone just does dinosaurs and mesozoic videos
Highly appreciate this new upload! I wasn't familiar with this group of animals beneath knowing that they once existed; Even thought, they were placentals - so, thanks a lot!
Me too. If you want cryptozoology to be an real science. Instead of finding mythical creatures they should search for those obscure but important animals.
Outcompeted clades don’t necessarily go extinct. Rather, they may instead retreat to “relictual” distributions like that rodent from Laos. Such taxa may thrive again under more favorable circumstances. However we must remember that while an organism has a relict distribution, they are extremely vulnerable to extinction caused by geological or cosmological events. What I’m saying is that a rare, outcompeted organism that may actually thrive in future eons may be driven extinct before it gets the chance. Case in point, could you imagine if the Chigutisaurids had made it to the late Cretaceous, and survived to the late Cenozoic icehouse? They would have thrived in our icy world. Alas they didn’t get that chance, Cretaceous era climate change saw to that. For a dramatic example to illustrate the randomness of these things, imagine we have a multituberculate living in late Eocene North America. It is one of the last of its kind and has a relict distribution on the coast, in swampy areas or hill areas, take your pick, it doesn’t matter. It could recover, under the right circumstances. But it won’t, because a giant space rock is about to slam into the shallow sea offshore, create the Chesapeake Bay Impact crater, in doing so incinerate everything within a five hundred mile radius, and drown the rest in an epic mega-tsunami. It isn’t just climate change or bolides that threaten such rare organisms, but in recent times our own species. And this has been the case for a long time. Some things don’t always make good subfossils, and we are still finding early victims of the Holocene extinction event, like the “Imperial Gibbon” of the genus Junzi, or that giant Heron they found not too long ago in the UAE. It’s only natural that we should find more, especially since we haven’t even found sub fossils of species widely described in ancient texts (like the North African Elephant). So yeah, it is entirely possible that some unique species with relict distributions went extinct because of our earlier (and current) activities. If so, it is likewise possible that we may still come across their sub-fossils. EDIT: for spelling and grammar a few days after posting.
I love you videos. I find the multituberculates to be fascinating because of their extinction. I have a bunch of suggestions for future videos. OK, a ton of suggestions. lol - It's almost depressing seeing lineages of creatures we will never see because they're extinct. lol A video about nautiluses and their ancient origins and survival to modern times would interesting. The same for Tuataras. A video about Tuataras would be cool. - A video about paleocene. So much mystery about what was happening right after the extinction of the dinosaurs. - A video for each period of earth's history, the interesting creatures, lesser known creatures and the mysteries surrounding each period from Ediacaran to modern times. The Cambrian, Ediacaran and pre-Ediacaran periods are fascinating because of the amount mystery there is.
You mentioned that there's still a chance people could find a living multituberculate. Finding a living multituberculate would be awesome and a historic find. The animal could have some traits that we may find odd and unusual with multituberculates being a distinct lineage of mammals.
@@BenjaminBurgerScienceHi first time finding your channel and I like the vid. I would be interested in seeing more videos on the effect of food chain collapses on extinction. I think you may find it interesting too. There are many subtopics on the subject of food chains which I adore learning about including: - selectivity(why certain groups survive an extinction event and why certain groups don't) - plants decline leading to herbivores declining leading to carnivores declining(population pyramids) - why small animals seem to survive(can hide from the starving predators) - species grow larger and more diverse before an extinction - species lose genetic diversity over time leading to replication errors(why plants go extinct?)
What do you think of Dr Greta Keller's assessment of the disconnect between the K-T boundary of Dr. Alvarez (who described paleontologists as the equivalent of stamp collectors) and a 100,000 difference between the end of the Cretaceous and the actual timing of the asteroid strike at Chicxulub. Watched a zoom class from the Kansas GS yesterday... interesting alternative.
I just found your channel, thank you for this very informative video, I would love to know about the early evolution of amniotes and the synapsid-sauropsid split if you ever had the time for it,
That was really fascinating! I keep hoping that living Nesophontids will be found -- I was terribly disappointed when the "recent-looking" owl pellets were redated to five hundred years ago -- but living Multis seem (tragically) a lot less likely. Where would you look? Maybe a cypress swamp somewhere?
Maybe there were predators/parasites of the zygodactylidae that kept their numbers in check, thereby preserving more seeds for the multiturberculates; and these predators/parasites did not recognize the invasive passerines as prey/hosts for whatever reasons?
Sure, there are lots of great youtube channels about paleontology, and I enjoy learning from others. I try to make my videos a little different, but I highly recommend PBB Eons, RaptorChatter, SciShow, Animalogic, c m kosemen, and I love to catch various museum and public lectures. Too many to list,@. I also find non-paleo youtube channels like lindybeige, Nerdwriter, folding ideas, and others really great. Simplex Paléo does a great channel in french, and there are is a new channel I've been watching Geo Girl, and there is Em Gems the best channel on Ammonites. Gosh so many great channels, I need to do some digging through my youtube history... maybe post some viewing recommendations!
The birds seem like the answer, they can fly, the rodents preying on birds could have helped them short term even. This is so cool of a quest! Maybe it was something like climate causing disease or something/. But flying seed-eating songbirds, also the likes of corvids or squirrels, driving them out of their niche as their reproduction might have been been less efficient than tge others. Or maybe less adept arboreal travelers?
Bigfoot and dogmen exist in southeastern Wisconsin so lock your doors at night or they will come get you! Also keep looking for them along with these rodent like cousins of the monotremes!
The global flood referenced in the sacred mythology of many human cultures appears to have been caused by an asteroid impact on the north American ice sheet approximately 12,000 years ago. Not the "ultimate extinction event". That was the Great Dying of about 250 million years ago. So far....
@Hapax Palindrome Many cultures know about the flood because it was handed down to them from people who witnessed it.And Genesis is a eye witness account of the fact.
You seem like pretty smart guy so I have some thoughts and questions. What do you think of Clovis first? Tlapacoya, Mexico around 21,000 BCE Puebla, Mexico 21,800 BCE Bluefish Caves, 25,000 years Monte Verde, Chile 33,000 years Allendale County, South Carolina, 50,00 years Cerutti mastodon Site, 130,700 years Calico Mountain site, Barstow, 200,000 years Hueyatlaco, Mexico, 250,000 years Why was Jacques Cing-Mars attacked by his peers? Why was Virginia Steen-Mars attacked by her peers? Why is Richard Cerutti being attacked by his peers? This should stimulate some debate, is you don't turn your comments off. Again.
You mentioned pine and spruce etc originating in the south. Do you have a reference for that? I'm working on the evolution of Pleistocene cold adaptation and it sounded relevant! Incidentally I was curious about the skull musculature of the arboreal multituberculates. Odd analogy but wondered if the incisors pried open the cones and a sticky tongue removed the seeds. The skulls of common starlings are special and do something similar in soil to get invertebrates. Just a random thought!
Your content is genuinely one of my favourite on the whole of RUclips
Thanks!
Your hypothesis about the food/diet being the major cause of their extinction is very interesting and might be true. Excited to know more about.
Hello, Benjamin, I've been watching you for many years. As chance would have it, I'm doing my undergrad dissertation right now on Multituberculates, more specifically on the Kogaionidae, a group that was endemic to the Hateg Island on the territory of what is now Romania. Very interesting video and the arguments you made for their decline make plenty of sense. Keep us updated on your research and greetings from Europe.
Ah, speaking as a rank-amateur who has a real interest in palaeontology I admit to having a 'soft spot' for Multituberculates. But it seems there's very little good digestible information out there. Thank you for this video.
PS: I've never gotten my head around why Monotremes, and especially Multituberculates, are considered Mammals when there are lineages seemingly more closely related to Therians that aren't. A follow-up video on that subject that would be wonderful if you are minded. Thank you.
I look to you for quality rather than quantity and I'm always interested to hear what's on your mind.
Wanted you to know how much your videos have enchanted me. Thank you Ben. Remember to find me at AMNH next time you are in NYC
I thoroughly enjoy both your geology and paleontology videos, and am so happy to see you are going to be able to get back to a more normal schedule as we all emerge from the pandemic. Keep up the great work!
I just found your channel while watching some E.D.G.E videos
this is a underrated paleo channel
Can't stop watching your videos, learning so much!
Thank you so much for the informative video. As others have chimed in there is a paucity of good videos and podcasts on synapsids/mammalian evolution. Fewer yet in the Cenozoic time period. I loved the hope that you put out there at the end that perhaps there may yet be multituberculates alive today- hidden in plain sight as it were just like the Laotian Rock Rat is. I have had similar hopes myself :)
Thanks, Benjamin. It's good to have you back!
i've long wondered what happened to these long-lived, highly successful critters. a really interesting presentation. thanks much. keep us posted!
I recently gave across your videos. They are very interesting to watch. Thanks for making them.
Oh new information! Thanks for your guidance 🙏
Welcome back Benjamin! 😀 👍
Monotremes have slow metabolisms maybe the multituberculates did too, so slowly petered out due to competing more active mammels. But your theory does sound more likely.
this video was amazing! Before that I didn't knew what was a multituberculate and now i like them 😁
Love your channel and when you talk about mammals! I'm currently studying Biology and I want to be a paleontologist and study South American Mammals from Mesozoic to Cenozoic.
I love your personality, and your videoes
More videos on mammal evolution, please! So hard to find good information the early cenozoic and mammal evolution. Everyone just does dinosaurs and mesozoic videos
Highly appreciate this new upload! I wasn't familiar with this group of animals beneath knowing that they once existed; Even thought, they were placentals - so, thanks a lot!
I would absolutely lose my mind if modern multituberculates were found.
Me too. If you want cryptozoology to be an real science. Instead of finding mythical creatures they should search for those obscure but important animals.
Outcompeted clades don’t necessarily go extinct. Rather, they may instead retreat to “relictual” distributions like that rodent from Laos. Such taxa may thrive again under more favorable circumstances. However we must remember that while an organism has a relict distribution, they are extremely vulnerable to extinction caused by geological or cosmological events.
What I’m saying is that a rare, outcompeted organism that may actually thrive in future eons may be driven extinct before it gets the chance. Case in point, could you imagine if the Chigutisaurids had made it to the late Cretaceous, and survived to the late Cenozoic icehouse? They would have thrived in our icy world. Alas they didn’t get that chance, Cretaceous era climate change saw to that.
For a dramatic example to illustrate the randomness of these things, imagine we have a multituberculate living in late Eocene North America. It is one of the last of its kind and has a relict distribution on the coast, in swampy areas or hill areas, take your pick, it doesn’t matter. It could recover, under the right circumstances. But it won’t, because a giant space rock is about to slam into the shallow sea offshore, create the Chesapeake Bay Impact crater, in doing so incinerate everything within a five hundred mile radius, and drown the rest in an epic mega-tsunami.
It isn’t just climate change or bolides that threaten such rare organisms, but in recent times our own species. And this has been the case for a long time. Some things don’t always make good subfossils, and we are still finding early victims of the Holocene extinction event, like the “Imperial Gibbon” of the genus Junzi, or that giant Heron they found not too long ago in the UAE. It’s only natural that we should find more, especially since we haven’t even found sub fossils of species widely described in ancient texts (like the North African Elephant). So yeah, it is entirely possible that some unique species with relict distributions went extinct because of our earlier (and current) activities. If so, it is likewise possible that we may still come across their sub-fossils.
EDIT: for spelling and grammar a few days after posting.
I love you videos. I find the multituberculates to be fascinating because of their extinction. I have a bunch of suggestions for future videos. OK, a ton of suggestions. lol
- It's almost depressing seeing lineages of creatures we will never see because they're extinct. lol A video about nautiluses and their ancient origins and survival to modern times would interesting. The same for Tuataras. A video about Tuataras would be cool.
- A video about paleocene. So much mystery about what was happening right after the extinction of the dinosaurs.
- A video for each period of earth's history, the interesting creatures, lesser known creatures and the mysteries surrounding each period from Ediacaran to modern times. The Cambrian, Ediacaran and pre-Ediacaran periods are fascinating because of the amount mystery there is.
Those are great ideas.
You mentioned that there's still a chance people could find a living multituberculate. Finding a living multituberculate would be awesome and a historic find. The animal could have some traits that we may find odd and unusual with multituberculates being a distinct lineage of mammals.
Nautiluses are cool, rather alien looking creatures. I do like watching videos of them swimming. lol
@@BenjaminBurgerScienceHi first time finding your channel and I like the vid.
I would be interested in seeing more videos on the effect of food chain collapses on extinction. I think you may find it interesting too.
There are many subtopics on the subject of food chains which I adore learning about including:
- selectivity(why certain groups survive an extinction event and why certain groups don't)
- plants decline leading to herbivores declining leading to carnivores declining(population pyramids)
- why small animals seem to survive(can hide from the starving predators)
- species grow larger and more diverse before an extinction
- species lose genetic diversity over time leading to replication errors(why plants go extinct?)
Very interesting and informative. I look forward to future videos.
I really enjoy your videos and have been binge watching
Love your videos, please make more!
What do you think of Dr Greta Keller's assessment of the disconnect between the K-T boundary of Dr. Alvarez (who described paleontologists as the equivalent of stamp collectors) and a 100,000 difference between the end of the Cretaceous and the actual timing of the asteroid strike at Chicxulub. Watched a zoom class from the Kansas GS yesterday... interesting alternative.
Signor Lipps???
So....small therapod dinosaurs start eating seeds and this, eventually, dooms the Multis.
Thanks for the great video!
just now found your channel. subscribed immediately!
I just found your channel, thank you for this very informative video, I would love to know about the early evolution of amniotes and the synapsid-sauropsid split if you ever had the time for it,
That was really fascinating! I keep hoping that living Nesophontids will be found -- I was terribly disappointed when the "recent-looking" owl pellets were redated to five hundred years ago -- but living Multis seem (tragically) a lot less likely. Where would you look? Maybe a cypress swamp somewhere?
Interesting research I would like to know more about this group.
Maybe there were predators/parasites of the zygodactylidae that kept their numbers in check, thereby preserving more seeds for the multiturberculates; and these predators/parasites did not recognize the invasive passerines as prey/hosts for whatever reasons?
Maybe...
High quality content
Dr. Burger. Could you please list some of your favorite RUclips channels under your Channel section of your RUclips page?
Sure, there are lots of great youtube channels about paleontology, and I enjoy learning from others. I try to make my videos a little different, but I highly recommend PBB Eons, RaptorChatter, SciShow, Animalogic, c m kosemen, and I love to catch various museum and public lectures. Too many to list,@. I also find non-paleo youtube channels like lindybeige, Nerdwriter, folding ideas, and others really great. Simplex Paléo does a great channel in french, and there are is a new channel I've been watching Geo Girl, and there is Em Gems the best channel on Ammonites. Gosh so many great channels, I need to do some digging through my youtube history... maybe post some viewing recommendations!
Thank you!
The birds seem like the answer, they can fly, the rodents preying on birds could have helped them short term even. This is so cool of a quest! Maybe it was something like climate causing disease or something/. But flying seed-eating songbirds, also the likes of corvids or squirrels, driving them out of their niche as their reproduction might have been been less efficient than tge others. Or maybe less adept arboreal travelers?
Rodents could have outbred the Multituberculates since they are placental and the Multituberculates were not.
Very true, this is why the rodent theory is so popular.
I always imagined that was the case too.
What would be my next steps to getting this investigated?
During Dino Era: You can't eat me alive, losers.
During Mammal Era: Nooooooooo
I wish I was smart enough to leave a more intelligent comment but I'm not.
So here goes...
You kick ass!!!!
👍👍👍👍
On my game camera I have what looks like a flying gopher.
I think they all died from multituberculosis
Bigfoot and dogmen exist in southeastern Wisconsin so lock your doors at night or they will come get you! Also keep looking for them along with these rodent like cousins of the monotremes!
The ultimate Extinction event was the global flood recorded in Genesis
The global flood referenced in the sacred mythology of many human cultures appears to have been caused by an asteroid impact on the north American ice sheet approximately 12,000 years ago. Not the "ultimate extinction event". That was the Great Dying of about 250 million years ago. So far....
@Hapax Palindrome Many cultures know about the flood because it was handed down to them from people who witnessed it.And Genesis is a eye witness account of the fact.
You seem like pretty smart guy so I have some thoughts and questions.
What do you think of Clovis first?
Tlapacoya, Mexico around 21,000 BCE
Puebla, Mexico 21,800 BCE
Bluefish Caves, 25,000 years
Monte Verde, Chile 33,000 years
Allendale County, South Carolina, 50,00 years
Cerutti mastodon Site, 130,700 years
Calico Mountain site, Barstow, 200,000 years
Hueyatlaco, Mexico, 250,000 years
Why was Jacques Cing-Mars attacked by his peers?
Why was Virginia Steen-Mars attacked by her peers?
Why is Richard Cerutti being attacked by his peers?
This should stimulate some debate, is you don't turn your comments off. Again.
Holy cow. I haven’t watched this channel in 2 years. Glad it popped up in my recommended though.
You mentioned pine and spruce etc originating in the south. Do you have a reference for that? I'm working on the evolution of Pleistocene cold adaptation and it sounded relevant!
Incidentally I was curious about the skull musculature of the arboreal multituberculates. Odd analogy but wondered if the incisors pried open the cones and a sticky tongue removed the seeds. The skulls of common starlings are special and do something similar in soil to get invertebrates. Just a random thought!
Another first rate lecture, Dr. Burger! Thanks for posting these highly informative programs for us science hungry RUclipsrs!
He's back!