The Gospel Truth: What Are the Gospels of the New Testament?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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While our four gospels eventually were named Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, did you know they're actually anonymously written? So, who actually wrote the gospels? And when were they written? Do we know where the writers were when they were writing? And much more!
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I've heard professor Ehrman's jokes a zillion times and his own giggling at them still makes me smile. Kudos!
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I am a Muslim and I love these podcasts. I always believed religion should be approached from a historical perspective before a theological perspective
I agree
@@felixfourcolor I believe (Mbappe) that’s what he said . …, except he thought historical truths should be understood before before one espouses theological perspectives.
As a Christian, what I love about these videos is that they make space for multiple viewpoints. Yes, there is truth, but how we see truth is shaped by so many different “things.”
It’s nice to know that some Christians like yourself are interested and keep an open mind about Dr. Ehrman’s work!
I’m right here with ya! I like Bart too ❤
@@bubbercakes528Ex Christian and atheist here. The great thing about Bart is that all sides can get a huge amount from the scholarship alone.
His books are great too.
Exactly !
Fantastic video. As a former fundamental Christian deconstructing the faith I was indoctrinated with, I'm thankful for RUclips videos like this that go into detail of the fallacies about the origin of the gospels and the Bible itself. Have a fantastic day.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th
@@termination9353 interesting theory, do you have sources that back up those claims or additional info that I could check about that?
@@soloencristo1 The Gospel narrative itself backs it up starting with John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
John11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he[Jesus] LOVED him[Lazarus]!
@@soloencristo1 Loved the inclusion of the Templars. But of course...
@@termination9353
Lazarus wasn't a fisherman.
John 21 takes place at the
Sea of Galilee. Written about by the Apostle who was there.
John Zebedee the fisherman.
You need a bit more study !!
I’m 11+ minutes and I’m loving it. I love being open minded as a Christian I want to learn more
Bart is one of the top scholars of our time
It always brings a smile to my face when Megan says thank you
I'm so glad you're doing this podcast. I've been following your work for a long time and am always giddy to see a new Bart Ehrman video. I've learned so much from your work and it has drastically changed my perspective and world view. And Megan's questions are fascinating and help get to the core issues!
As usual, Bart Ehrman gives a fascinating view and explanation of the Gospels! Thank you!
I look forward to these podcasts every week! Amazing information and Bart is such an great teacher. Also, are we going to talk about Megan's fantastic glasses or nah?
Megan upping the glasses game every episode :)
Steampunk edition
Wonderful. Thank you so much. I love learning what Dr. Ehrman has come to after all his years of studying.
I am enjoying these videos with Bart and Megan. Being interested in the historicity of the bible, these episodes hit the button for me.
Each time I nlisten to Bart, its a pleasure! MJPodcast, thanks for such a wonderful discussions and questions, you know what yr viewers need to listen. 🌻
Wonderful show! Both of you are great. Keep up the good work!❤
Over the years I have enjoyed many of Professor Herman’s lectures and performances. Indeed, he is quite knowledgeable and entertaining. I have purchased and studied his Great Courses lectures, ‘The New Testament’, and a book or two. While finding the education enlightening it fails, for me, to call into question my Christian faith. Yet, I suspect that many quarters present as if such exposition should. I’m happy to learn from Professor Ehrman as well as study and practice my belief system. Both perspectives produce no harm and should be welcomed by all in discourse.
Correction: The ‘Herman’ that appears earlier in the discourse was an autocorrect and not my writing. My apologies.
I’m not a Christian, but glad to hear it doesn’t have you losing your faith. Many scholars are still Christian and most would most likely agree with what Bart presents. A great deal of what he says is agreed upon by scholars.
@@davidkeller6156 Thanks for your thoughts.
So what about the biblical bullshit strikes you as worth practicing? The part where the zombie comes back to torture most people for eternity? ;-)
@@lepidoptera9337
Prayer, and loving kindness meditation.
I have been thoroughly enjoying this podcast. Thank you both!
Expert knowledge made accessible is a public good and always valuable. Big thanks to Dr Ehrman and Megan for this conversation.
Love the way you present your podcast Inclusive type of feeling Not the aggressive types out their
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Thank you for sharing so much knowledge! I have never been this challenged with such thought provoking concepts. I love this podcast!
Even though I am no longer interested in being religious… I still find Dr. Ehrman brings fascinating perspectives… which can find application in many other realms where we need to critically review claims of truth and certainty
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353
I am not familiar with the issues that you are raising….. but, I think if God was really in control of sending a message to humanity…. He would have done a better job of sending a unified coherent message that everyone more or less agreed upon
@@MrArdytube Oh you all lie to claim it isn't coherent. You aren't to be asking humanity what to agree upon, you are to be perceiving existence and asking yourself what truth is. There is your evil. Placing the responsibility of doing YOUR thinking on everyone else then blame God you can't come to a consensus.
@@termination9353
I do not depend on a consensus… but only observe that the extreme lack of a consensus does not seem to validate assertions of a clear “truth”. And, for me, the extreme diversity of opinions seems grossly inconsistent with the idea that there is an all powerful supreme being who has an important message that he wants humanity to jointly comprehend
@@MrArdytube What part of do not murder do you not understand? what part of do not steal do you not understand? What ordinance of God in the old test or gospels do you not understand that you claim you need some validation to understand and follow?
Thanks for Revealing the Truth about these Gospels
Great cameo for Moosewood, yay! Such a classic.
Thank to u both
Fantastic I learn a lot with Dr Burt, and yes awesome sense of humor 👍✌️
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Another great episode. I can't wait until these two get into the details of some of these topics. I love the overview episodes but when they start to dig into things like Secret Mark or the Stromateis this will get even more amazing.
Screw Telegram. Too late,the word is out.. it's a SCAM. Don't touch it, people.
Thanks so much!
Loving the podcast!
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Great show! 🙂
Good work with the sound!
I'm glad you like it
@@bartdehrman way better!! Thank you
Best podcast ever
This so much, this was great
Thank you 🙂👍
Oral tradition is more reliable than written great to hear Bart mention that. Path from writing to mind to soul is least effective. It over engages the mind, not to mention the message can be changed, lost , error,or even just misinterpreted by the reader. Why we are usually enjoy listening to a pastor etc because it's more inspiring (or should I say soulful)
No I think you misinterpreted what he said, ironically.
amazing thanks
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Those glasses - and the ones before it - are super cool!
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I love Megan's style! Looking forward to the next episode!
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Somewhere, an apprentice alchemist is wondering who stole his glasses
8:32 Speaking of internal. Mark often refers to toll stations on the northern side of the Lake of Galilee, positioned on the border, which in Jesus’ day ran between the territories of Galilee (controlled by Herod Antipas) and Gaulanitis (controlled by his brother Philip). But the frontier was only there between 4 BCE (when Herod the Great’s territories were divided) and 39 CE (the year of the accession of Agrippa I, who again ruled both territories), and it had certainly ceased to have any relevance after the Revolt.
Another GREAT pair of glasses, Megan!
Megan's glasses are so cool here, and also I really want some chicken curry or lasagna now :-D Thank you both for another great episode, always a pleasure to listen to you!
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Megan going for that Kira Nerys look
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Dr. Ehrmann did you ever hear from the concept that the Gospels are a catechesis for the proselytes according the Jewish Liturgical calendar?
One of the things that gets me about the Nativity Story is Mary's journey to Bethlehem itself. There was no need for her to go there, as she wasn't married to Joseph. Thus she could have stayed at home with either her relatives or his. I mean, what is the probability of a woman who is very close to giving birth, riding a donkey from Nazareth to Bethlehem (approximately 92 miles) across some incredibly hostile terrain, in a region that would have had snakes, scorpions, bandits etc. It just makes no sense.
Joseph did take Mary to wife. You don't know the story accurately.
And people weren't soy boys like they are today - and you exaggerate.
@@termination9353 Stop being gullible and foolish. It simply isn't believable that a heavilly pregnant woman, maybe a week away from going into labour would go on a journey through the Judean wilderness, a very dangerous journey taking about a week to complete, just so that her future husband could go over his property details with some Roman tax officials/ or sign some census. The story exists just to show that Jesus came from The Line of David. And was born in Bethlehem. Likewise the story of the escaping from Herod and going to Egypt, only exists to tick off more prophesies. i.e, Out of Egypt have I called my Son. Going back to the 92 mile trip to Bethlehem story, can you imagine a woman nearly forty weeks pregnant, riding a donkey up and down hills for seven days?
Mary was obedient to God. That's the explanation.
@@jimsager3297 Well your explanation is foolish and makes sense only to someone who doesn't think, but just believes.
One of the best to ever do it. Bart the man Ehrman
@@busterbiloxi3833
Both liars
@@habakkuk2510 Why do you say Ehrman is a liar? You are obviously confident. Bart often will ask those of faith what is the evidence? What is your evidence that he is a liar?
@@steveferguson698
(Psalm 147:19-20) He sheweth his WORD (bible) unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments(law) unto ISRAEL he hath NOT DEALT so with ANY NATION: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord
(Romans 3:1-2) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much EVERY WAY: chiefly, because that unto THEM were committed the ORACLES (bible) of God
☝️Any heathen attempting to teach or preach the word of God is a blasphemous liar
@@habakkuk2510 Again I ask. What is the evidence that Ehrman is a liar? You are quoting Hebrew bible verses. I am not a believer although at one time I was an evangelical Christian. Do you want to say "In your opinion Ehrman is a liar" Okay. I get that. I my opinion the Bible is a series great work of literature but is not the work of a supernatural God. I can't prove that. And don't intend to try. But you state with surety that Bart Erman is a liar. What is your evidence?
@@steveferguson698
God titles Caucasians the "wicked" and calls you born liars - your history of rape robbery murder and blasphemy confirmes God's written word
(Psalm 58:3) The "wicked" are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, SPEAKING LIES
(Malachi 1:2-4) yet I loved Jacob, And I hated E. S. A. U and they shall call THEM, The border of "WICKEDNESS" and, THE PEOPLE against whom the Lord hath indignation FOREVER
My other question is, what do you think about the idea that Luke and Acts should be read and understood as a single story that was broken up into two separate books in the Bible? I saw an interesting video on this on the mythvision channel on RUclips.
Those glasses frames are giving me LIFE.
(Megan's, not Doc's)
YES. I think I'm going to be searching the rest of my life for such a perfect glasses fit now.
@@djmcbratney
Grow up
The Empty Tomb series by Truthsurge is also interesting and informative
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What version of the gospels do you recommend for someone who doesn't have access or understanding of the ancient source materials when considering the topic of historicity? I have always used either NRSV or NIV. this is because I grew up catholic, but NIV had a better concordance and cross references for study.
I believe most academics prefer the NRSV (at least those who are not evangenlicals). Ehrman uses it in his NT course at Chapel Hill, and so does Dale Martin in his Open Yale Courses course on the NT ( ruclips.net/p/PL279CFA55C51E75E0 ). Ehrman's mentor, Metzger, worked on that translation.
Don't know what's up with the comments, but the audio is MUCH better this week!
great
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This is an excellent podcast on the History and development of the Gospels. However, what about the "Gospel of Truth?"
This is the 1st time I've seen her with those glasses in that red hair it's as it turns out she's a very good student of the bible to my prize
26 minutes in... He said that they were pretty much passed on orally and he gave an example. This is a good reason why we can call them the four Gossips
Lol
Fascinating!!! Wonder what Jesus is thinking!!!😇
Excellent! Digital Hammurabi AND Bart Ehrman. Along with _World of Antiquity,_ two of my favourite channels on RUclips.
{:o:O:}
The intro music goes so hard
Misread the title, I thought it said The Gospel OF Truth. Got all excited about an Ehrman talk on Valentinus :(
7:53 As Paul, John used a educated greek speaking scribe to write for him.
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I'm sorry, I can't hear the word "Evangelion" without thinking of a giant robot.
If your name was Justun Martyr & some said "Hello, Mr. Martyr" whilst you were still alive, it would bloody freak you out wouldn't it?
I would love to see you debate people about various New Testament books being forged.
It's been done.
@@ray_glaze Links
?
@@chadgarber just search RUclips. There are a lot of debates on many sides of the historicity of various scriptures
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What role do you think the Flavian emperors played in propagating the gospels?
I loved fish and chips last time I went to England.
Hay Bart! I have a question about Paul’s trial before Caesar. It’s seems like the book of Acts builds up to this event but ends before the event happens! Did this trial happen and if so, are there any writings about it?
Paul was a Roman agent. Paul simply lived out on his Roman military pension upon arrival back to his homeland.
@@termination9353 What is your evidence for that claim?
@@michaelsommers2356 The Book of Acts
@@termination9353 Please be specific.
@@michaelsommers2356 Acts shows that the Apostles did not believe Paul's conversion story, that all jews were kicked out of and forbidden to live in Rome, Paul admitted he was a Roman, Pharisees don't learn to make tents but Roman soldiers do, received extreme deference from the Roman authorities and then was living in the end in COSMOPOLITAN Rome where no Jews are allowed to live... AND WITH WHAT MONEY?
Bart Ehrman says the four canonical gospels are the oldest of what we have but according to April D Deconick the gospel of Thomas is probably parallel to Q source
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look forward to a podcast that covers the subject "did Paul know any of the actual teachings of Jesus?". He's the earliest Christian writer but doesn't write anything that quotes a teaching of Jesus. Did Paul ever hear someone tell him an account of the Sermon on the Mount (or Plain)?
I think Bart has mentioned that Paul knew that Jesus had a strong teaching against divorce - but that's rather thin stuff for the 13th apostle to pin his ministry atop of.
I think Paul's whole schtick was the resurrection. I mean, once someone has come back from the dead, do you really care what he talked about? I'd be like, sign me up for that.
If you disregard the information from the late 1st and early 2nd century, “we don’t know” is about the only answer possible. But we do have information from that period, and from several sources. Bart mentions several of those. Papias and Polycarp and Justin lived close enough to the authors of the Gospels to have quite good knowledge, even in the case of John, personal knowledge.
Why not write about Jesus earlier? Because there was a lot of oral testimony to Jesus, which as Papias says was more valuable than written records.
Megan, why assume these were not eyewitness accounts? Peter would certainly have been, and his report of Jesus is the core of the Gospel of Mark.
I would like to know if it's possible at all that the Flavian family created Jesus to pull together all the various beliefs under one idea?
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Did she try and ‘out-spectacle’ you 😂 theyre some spectacular specs
It seems to me that there must have been pre-Gospel Gospels. All of the Gospels, despite their apparent origins, to me show signs of additions and modifications to justify, explain, and link to Old Testament (and other lost stories) that must surely be additions to the original core stories of Jesus. Rather than looking at the differences, I am inclined to look at the core similarities to see what the real original bases of the Gospels were. Early manuscripts are, of course, key to identifying how these curious documents evolved.
You won't be able to see the real original bases of the Gospels, because they are ORAL stories.
And if you are hoping that Gospel authors copied some of these stories from bits and scraps of papyrus written down by various random people, well they're all destroyed. Nothing survived.
Well, they are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Luke is my favourite because in his story, Jesus flies into space.
How did he do it ? They didn't have the tech 200 years ago. Great story, but enough detail.
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Elijah flew into space as well. And he rode a wooden chariot powered by some booster rocket because its wheels were on fire. And Elijah wasn't wearing a seat belt and didn't have oxygen masks with him to let him breathe at high altitudes.
@@origenjerome8031
In those days, it was assumed that we can live among the stars (without any special equipment).
If the author of Luke/Acts had known the truth he would have made up a different ending for Jesus.
(Luke 24:51 and Acts 1:9)
Is possible that Paul, could be a pharisee that followed Jesus through out his traveled journeys in the many places that appeared in the Gospels and challenged his actions/teachings. In other words, where was Paul when Jesus was still alive and was he aware of Jesus before his death?
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What is your take on the pretorist theory? You seem to take the view that the early Christians were expecting an imminent literal return. A very popular view. However this other view interpret in light of what the audience of the day understood.
It's frustrating to me that when I was a devout evangelical Christian as a youth, these books were treated as the unified Word of God with no credence given to how they should be treated based on genre.
Ehrman's work is a revelation to me for learning to treat the books of the Bible as literature. Literature has an intended audience, genre, themes, and goals. It represents the biases of its creator. Understanding how Matthew is trying to emphasize connections between the Jesus story and earlier Jewish myth whereas John's intentionally paradoxical Christology represents theological development in a religious sect gradually separating itself from its second temple Judaism roots makes for such a more clear reading of the books in the Christian Bible than the ouji board approach he laughs about in this episode.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th
@@termination9353 This sounds cool, what video game is this a plot summary of? Is it on mobile?
@@HessianHunter John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
John11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he[Jesus] LOVED him[Lazarus]!
@@HessianHunter
It's the doctrine of Devils earned of in Scripture
"Other Virgin Births" should be interesting. I guess it wouldn't be implausible that the virgin birth trope could have appeared in Christianity first - internally Matthew and Luke could have innovated the idea by misreading Isaiah, and externally it could be seen as a way to take the idea of a demigod born from a human mother that appears in other myth traditions and make it more palatable to second temple ideas of purity. But if it was adapted from elsewhere or influenced by other traditions, that'll be another fascinating arc in the tangle of interacting threads that makes up early Christian belief.
Megan's new glasses otoh are purely divine.
Isn't Sarah's pregnancy also a divine one?
@@termination9353 I think that's a tic of the stories of the patriarchs that's also called back to in 1 Samuel, a trope where a woman is "barren" and then miraculously becomes fertile. With Mary in Matthew and Luke, it's worded pretty differently, to the point that it's clear Joseph isn't involved and ambiguous whether God isn't simply conceiving in her in a pretty physical way. I could be wrong though, this all might be connected.
@@djmcbratney I think my point is that it's a divinely driven pregnancy. Regardless of virginity or barrenness, the mechanics is the same. A spirit of God "overshadows" the 'patient' and the patient becomes pregnant. Sarah's Isaac was a giant.
@@djmcbratney
Explain
👇
CHRIST
(Matthew 15:24) I am NOT sent but unto the Lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL
PAUL
(Romans 9:3-5) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for MY BRETHREN, my kinsmen according to the "FLESH" who are ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION, and the GLORY, and the "COVENANTS" and the giving of the LAW, and the service of God, and the "PROMISES" whose are the fathers, and of WHOM AS CONCERNING THE "FLESH" CHRIST CAME
@@habakkuk2510 Explain what? What does any of that have to do with Megan's glasses?
Another person who did an excelent job encountering the Truth was Bernadette Roberts in her final masterpiece called The Real Christ.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 wow. i sure would like to provide a shred of evidence supporting any of those claims...
@@phoenixkennedy5927 from the Gospel narrative itself to start with John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
John11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he[Jesus] LOVED him[Lazarus]!
@@phoenixkennedy5927
Termi nation is an agent of Satan pretending to be a biblical scholar - ask him his biblical God given ethnicity
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Bart started to talk about oral histories and the veracity of oral histories then he veered way off on a tangent and didn't complete his thought. Any chance we could find out what it was he was going to say about oral histories and spreading stories around orally? He also didn't get into how accurate the gospels are.
We know the genre of the Bible is Historical fiction. We know very little is historic.
"If you got this thing in the bible [then] did this thing actually happen"
That warning label should be on every Jewish and Christian text that has been published. Just like you put warning labels on cigarettes.
*Eyewitness reliable?*
I just saw a prank show where the target immediately reported what they “saw” and got it quite wrong.
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Happy Advent Bart. Jesus loves you! Remember Paul! You can be the witness for our time. May the Lord be with you.
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I have enjoyed your videos, Mr Ehrman. I have to say with all sincerety, I've never been a believer, I just find too mainly inconsistencies in Christianity, also my knowledge of Buddhism has also led me to believe no one on Earth has "ultimate truth". In Asia, Christianity means almost nothing.
I find the Gospels to mainly be a bunch of Jewish rabbis debating and arguing with one another about a coming savior to lead their people (nation). What does that have to do with me?
So, if one believes in Jesus, one will live forever? What does that mean? Live forever as a disembodied "consciousness", floating in some other dimension (heaven) forever? Forever is a long time. And what will one do there? Work? Play? Eat? Make love? Are there babies? Animals? I don't get it.
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Was this filmed before he canceled his Moses course?
Hey, it's Chris writing for Bart. The Moses course was delayed due to a family emergency. Not cancelled. I'm hoping to announce the new day as early as today. But yes, this was filmed before we had to delay Finding Moses shooting.
It would seem the earliest evidence of Mark circulating would be that the authors of Matthew and Luke knew of it, but apparently weren't in the same community. So Mark had spread pretty widely quite early.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th
I'd love to know what you, Bart, might think of the idea put forth by John Shelby Spong in his book, 'Jesus for the Non-Religious', that the gospels were written as liturgy? That they were written by Greek speaking Jewish Christians outside of Judea but inside the synagogue(s). They were designed to step the people/congregation through the calendar year, similar to the way that the Jewish Torah is used. In the process the timing of the events of Jesus's life got switched around a bit, and stories about pre-existing Jewish heroes, and patriarchs, and sacred symbols got placed on and wrapped around Jesus.
If this started with Mark, perhaps people didn't think this was good enough, or sacred, or dramatic enough, so with each succeeding gospel they made things more "religious", and dramatic, and liturgically "sacred" and fantastic.
I'd love it if you could reply, Bart, but if you can't, or don't have the time, I get it. Thanks
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 I've never heard anything like what you are saying before. What is this "original Gospel of Jesus scroll" that you are talking about? What are your sources and can one get/see a copy of it?
@@liteenergy4843 The Gospel narrative itself is the source of what I am talking about John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
@@termination9353 Lately I've been thinking that people don't really need a gospel or a book to be Christians or to have the faith. The first 5 generations, (or more), don't seem to have had one, at least not one that we can put our finger(s) on or have a copy of. - - What they did have and what they/we really only need is to be in and of the Spirit of Christ, God, and or the Holy Spirit.
@@liteenergy4843 That is what the antichrist would say.
32:58 two years and under, because he didn't do it right after Jesus was born but at a later date
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Megan has cool specs.
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The Apostles and Jesus weren't talking about the end of the world. They were talking about the end of the age. (The covenant age.) The end of the Old covenant and the start of the new covenant in 70 AD
One thing most do not recognize is the proximity of Egypt to Israel. (If/ When) Joseph took Mary to Egypt it was about like saying someone took their wife from Boston to New York State walking and riding a donkey. It would take a few days, it would be an uncomfortable trip, but it wasn't anything like folks going from the East Coast of America to Oregon which took most of a year. Depending on WHERE in Egypt he took Mary the trip need not be as hazardous as we consider~ above and beyond the dangers found in traveling in general, but if you have God and Angels watching over you I don't suppose you'd sweat a brigand or two on the road...
So what does the length of a trip to Egypt have to do with bodily resurrection? Christianity is not a course on how to travel hundreds of miles on horseback. It's the teaching that a dead man will come back, resurrect all the dead, judge all the resurrected dead and then throw most of the judged and resurrected dead into an eternal lake of fire. The burning lake part, by the way, was imagery from the Egyptian afterlife. It's not even remotely original to Christians. Would you like a pagan Christmas tree with that? ;-)
@@lepidoptera9337 Not in the least anywhere near the subject I was talking about and somehow comes across quite angrily as though I had somehow personally insulted you.
I didn't mean to piss in your Wheaties brother.
So take a chill pill dude.
@@sailorbychoice1 Dude, you were talking bullshit about angels. What do you expect me to reply to that? That I take you seriously? You need to grow up, kid. :-)
@@lepidoptera9337 I was not throwing BS at angels. If the Scriptures are true and correct, Joseph would have had encounters with Angels. He believed He was told By God via the Angels to go to Egypt. If You are doing what You believe God wants you to do, you aren't going to sweat the Brigands, You'll believe You'll get there. My point was also that it was a week, maybe a week and a half's walk, an imposition but not a vast distance.
@@sailorbychoice1 It has a talking donkey, kid. A three year old can tell that books with talking animals are fairytales. :-)
Imo a truth has been hiding in plain sight for over 2,000 years. Beginning with Constantine I and continuing for the following 1,700 years to this day Christ's teachings as to how mankind can realize the kingdom of heaven on earth were appropriated by tyrants, monarchs, and the Church of the Holy Roman Empire to empower and enrich themselves in ways diametrically opposed by the words and deeds of Christ.
In Matthew 25:31-46 Christ outlines the attributes of his true followers. But, even more relevant to his definition of true leadership are these words:
"He who would be first among you must be your servant. He who would be your king must be your slave just as the Son of Man has come not to be served, but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many."
And these words are unambiguous imo: "Treat all others as you would be treated for that sums up the Law and the Prophets."
Had the council of Nicea focused entirely on how to bring the teachings of Christ into the world, rather can getting lost in esoteric arguments about the nature of Christ's divinity, history would have been very different. There is no such thing as a "holy war". None of the hundreds of years of brutal suppression of protestant denominations would have happened if Christ's teachings were actualized as He intended.
No racism, no discrimination, no centuries of monarchs pretending to rule in God's name destroying the lives of millions upon millions of human lives for generations.
The good news is that Christ's words never loose their power for guiding enlightened change. Imo the two most important words Christ speaks today are "I am."
We who are alive today still have the freedom to see the kingdom of heaven realized if we open our hearts, and minds. I hope those seeing this video will read Christ's words for themselves. I feel that Christ's words will speak to all in ways that will show us the truth, the light, and the way to creating life on earth for all people that reflects our Creator’s great abundance, mercy, and love for all life on earth.
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If memory is bad, explain "Sermon on the Mount," please. I think Jesus wrote Q and Matthew. And probably another untiled one.
Wow, unique opinion! I don't think it's viable though.
Why would Jesus write both Q and Matthew? Matthew is based on Mark, and Mark is writing about Jesus' death. Many other difficulties arise due to Markan priority. Matthew also writes about Jesus' death. Was he writing before the crucifixion and predicting everything, or was he writing after crucifixion? Or more amusingly, he could've been writing in the tomb. I mean he's got three days of doing nothing in there. If Jesus wrote Matthew and apostles knew that, wouldn't they proclaim that it is the word of Jesus himself?
As fun of an idea that is, I'm positive Jesus couldn't have written Matthew. Q is more plausible, but unlikely.
What's there to explain about the sermon on the mount? It's certainly not an argument for memories being reliable. Someone collected circulating sayings of Jesus into a document called Q. These saying may not be completely accurate, because they were circulated by word of mouth and relied on the memories of Jesus' followers. The author of Matthew wanted to include these sayings, so he put Jesus on a mount delivering a sermon.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 Do you have any proof of that? It sounds like schizo garbage. That verse in John doesn't support your theory. It just says that the book of John was written.
Why doesn't anyone talk about this hijacking? Irenaeus should've said something about it in his book 'Against Heresies'.
If it was done by Rome, why did they persecute them? Why not change it to something that could co-exist with Roman polytheism.
@@georgebennett9698 " It just says that the book of John was written." it's says the disciple, the disciple whom Jesus loved, who is Lazarus, wrote "these things". It says "WE know it's true" who are the witnesses and Apostles giving deposition testimony to Lazarus who transcribed and arranged that testimony. Why then would there be any need for the Apostles to go off on their own and write individual testimony for?
"why did they persecute them? Why not change it to something" That persecution happened prior to Rome taking a different tactic, making it the official religion and change it to suit Roman rule.... they don't care who what how many gods just as long as they control it.
@@termination9353 It doesn't matter if it was written by Lazarus, John or someone else. All it shows is that in the Gospel of John, it states Apostolic origin for the Gospel of John. It doesn't support that it was previously one super-gospel that no one has or ever heard of.
I understand your opinion now. You think that everything was changed and corrupted when Constantine converted to Christianity. If I'm guessing correctly, you're a protestant that thinks that the corruption from Constantine created the Catholic Chuch. Good, that's a lot easier to disprove.
First, our oldest manuscripts date before Constantine's conversion. They are the same four gospels (for the most part) that we have in our bibles.
Second, the Ante-Nicean fathers, who were Christians before the first Christian Council organized by Constantine, are all aware of the four Gospels and talk about them. They'll frequently quote from them and they are our Gospels. Irenaeus (130-202 AD) had this to say about the Gospels "It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds,[...], it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh."
Finally, the Christians who lived through the conversion of Constantine tell us exactly what it was like. There were not widespread changes coming from Rome itself and imposed on the Christian church. Eusebius, who lived through the conversion of Constantine, wrote a history of the church called "Church History" in which he explains how the church developed. It does not agree with your hypothesis.
I'm sorry, but your hypothesis about one super-Gospel is absolutely incorrect. We have physical evidence that wasn't true. We have many people of the time say that's not true. Meanwhile, you don't have any evidence whatsoever. Your best evidence is a verse from John that just claims that the beloved disciple and the apostles wrote the Gospel of John. Your theory is the fiction of someone who does not know history.
If the Gospels are essentially telling the same story, why do we need four of them? (Just because four had been written isn’t reason necessarily for four to have been included in the New Testament, and, in fact, as Dr. Erhman repeatedly explains, many more than four were written. Yes, the four have discrepancies and contradictions among them., but presumably these were not intentional, and according to Dr. Ehrman in the early days of Christianity they weren’t even noticed. That should make at least two of the Gospels redundant for the New Testament compliers.)
To be honest, we don't *need* four gospels. The four were included in the canon because:
1) They were the earliest gospels and the ones people held as sacred scripture in their communities.
2) They were thought to come from an apostolic origin due to Papias and others. Probably as a reaction to other groups, like the Gnostics, claiming that their texts came from apostolic origins.
3) They were close enough to the orthodox views, even though they differ from each other.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 Quit spamming already. No one is interested in your fantasy.
@@termination9353 Please don't spam this around.
@@georgebennett9698 Is this your channel?
It's interesting. The Gospels weren't for evangelical purpose by early Christians.
before 14th centuries, Our Lord creator of heaven said that
{أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا} [النساء : 82]
(The translation)
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.
The language that was spoken in Jesus time is not anymore used now. There is no one original copy of Bible. Four contraded gospels and every year revisions of Bible are proof that word of our Lord was changed & corrupted in Bible.
I invited all of you to read the Qur'an'S words of Lord of heaven.
(136) Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
( 137 ) So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Yes read the last testament, Quran.
@@raymondjefferson2514
Islam is garbage
Mark 12, Luke 21 and Matthew 24 recorded Jesus's message on "the end of (Jewish) age" often misread as "the end of the world". Likewise with the book of Revelation often been interpreted as the end of the world, rather than the end of the Jewish age. (HUGE DISAGREEMENT ON THE DATE THAT REVELATION WAS WRITTEN 65AD vs. 90sAD.)
Lots of Jesus's preaching were predicting that the Jewish age that the Israelites were called or commissioned as recorded in Exodus 19:5-6 to be God's priests to build the holy nation outside of the garden of Eden to reclaim the failed humanity would come to an end. It did in Oct 70AD, when the Romans soilders led by general Titus to break through the city wall and erase the city of David to the ground, including the 2nd temple, which Jesus explained that it was serving no more purpose. Why?
Jesus proclaimed that the new church age is to come and the old Jewish age was done.
When did the church age started? Many points. Birth of Jesus, death of Jesus, and resurrection of Jesus were the marking points. The implementation could very well be Acts 9, when Paul was called as the special apostle of the Gentiles. Jews continued in their own world till these days with less than 1% of their total population of 16 millions, half reside in modern Israel and the majority of the rest reside in USA are converted as Christians. Romans 11:25-36 talks about what have happened to the Jews.
Please correct the above, if you think any of the above have deviated.
Naw Bart, the Christmas story only happened two thousand years later when Maceys invented Santa Claus.
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Odd that my comment and questions in this Comment section made a few hours ago. . . were ... deleted.
Sorry a bunch of them are still being held for approval. It might be in there
*Mark vs the Virgin conception/Birth*
Mark did not think there was anything significant to the story about Jesus’ birth worth putting in his gospel, except to imply that people *didn’t know who his father was* and that Jesus’ family was not aware of any god-selection aspect to his birth.
Mark 1:1-13 The whole Judean countryside and population of Jerusalem went out to receive John’s baptism. God calls Jesus his son at his baptism by John, who has announced that someone is coming to baptize the Jews with the Holy Spirit. Soon, it is clear that this future baptizer is Jesus.
The implication is that Jesus became god’s son *upon baptism.* There was no written virgin conception story for people to assume as of the time of Mark.
Mark 3:20-22
According to other gospels, Jesus’ mother had been told by an angel that she was giving virgin birth because of God. How would anyone in his family think he was crazy if that had happened? The simplest explanation is that Mark didn’t think the virgin birth or annunciation occurred, so neither do his characters.
In Mark 3:31-35 Jesus denies his biological family, including his mother, contrasting them with the people around him who are doing god’s will.
That means either that
a) Mark didn’t think Mary was doing god’s will or
b) she disagrees with Jesus as to what god’s will is.
In either case, Jesus is not her spiritual leader. It cannot be that she thinks he was miraculously sent from god to save us.
And that means that Mark did not think Jesus was miraculously sent.
Mark 6:3-4 (only place where Mark identifies Mary as Jesus’ mother?)
People identify Mary as Jesus’ parent. In that culture, people identified sons by their father, if known, so maybe they are saying “Your father is unknown,” which might have been relatively common if Roman soldiers were raping Jews. If Mary's rapist had been a Jew, he could just pay the 50 shekel fine and she'd be forced to marry him.
Jesus indicates that his family does not respect him, which would not be the case if they thought God had sent him. Mark 6:4 "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home." So his family, who would have known of any announcement by god and virgin birth, did not honor Jesus. (This is consistent with Matthew 10:34-36 in which Jesus supposedly said that families would be divided in enmity.)
If Mary went through the process described in Matthew or Luke and heard about Jesus’ baptism and Satan’s tempting Jesus, why is she and Jesus’ whole family not honoring Jesus and not following him as the Messiah and son of god? Why instead is Jesus indicating that his biological family is not doing God’s will and not honoring him?
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Proclamations of good news. Attributed to Mark, Luke, Matthew , John. Not apostles. It is unlikely that the apostles or disciples could write in Greek. Greek was the language of the educated elite and scribes. End of second century books quoted by name. Ancient form of biographies. Stark differences between modern biographies. What kind of person more important than facts.
Read the same stories horizontaly.😎😇😉
Who still says “www.”?
LOL - I'll let Megan know
Douglas Adams pointed out that this is the only abbreviation that takes three times as long to say as the thing it’s abbreviating.
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