It really helps me - that is my "good" scope you see in the video, but I've also got a crappy DSO kit one that sits here plugged into the mixer just for everyday use :)
You said leave a comment, so here it is. One way to experiment with the sound you are creating is to select another or all the other algorithms (individually) to see how the sound changes as it’s processed by the other algorithms. Sometimes you find one that does a better job than the one you’re fighting with.
Thank you a ton sir! I was starting to get depressed trying to figure this out i was afraid I wasted money on this keyboard because I couldn’t figure out how to tweak the synth leads. now I realize sound design is possible its just alot more nuanced than I anticipated. Im starting to understand!
Hey Scott, I’m a keen follower of your channel and on the back of watching a few MODX videos I just taken the leap and grabbed one myself. I’ll be rewatching those videos with even greater interest. Thanks.
As an electronic music fan. 80s synthwave, industrial dance, etc i have been looking into playing with synths learn to play the 80s riffs and recreate those amazing sounds. I like the montage for the versatility i would need as a very true beg as never playing a piano/keyboard plus messing wuth the sound design aide. As a newbie to the ins and outs i have to wrap my head around what you are describing, but the more of your videos i watch the more it is all sinking in. Well done.
I love the video, I learned a lot. I have the modx but never bothered to learn the fm x engine and I am excited that you have created this. Not many videos out there that goes into this and I really hope they you will create additional videos like this. Maybe a series into recreating some fm sounds on the modex that simulated other sounds from other synths you have
Thank you so much! This video has been exactly what I was looking for. I have still some experiences in creating sounds with several synthesizers but always the fm-synthesis had been a task. You were very helpful, especially because I own a modx7 - so keep on making videos and have good year 2024! Greetings, Peer
Absolutely great! Thank you! Kind of videos I am really missing. Finally a explanation of basic knowledge. There are many sounds I want to rebuild in my MODX. Especially supersaws of Techno-Musik (e.g. AW - Faded) . Please continue, if there is more information to know.
Excellent video, thanks. The only experimentation I've done so far after years of ownership is to play with some of the performances that I bought from Easysounds, but never really understood what it is I'm doing!
I have a MODX, but it was to complicated to learn synthesis with FM synthesis 2 years ago when I bought it, because the greatest classic synth sounds were created with subtractive analog synths and that’s why one month after MODX I bought Roland Jupiter Xm and I’m glad I did, because I learned almost everything what I know about synths and synthesis with Jupiter Xm. I love it particularly because except Roland filter it has Moog and Sequential P5 filter and emulations of 4 classic Roland synths, so I could experience how is it to work with different synths with different possibilities and characteristics and that every synth is not good for all sounds. With Jupiter Xm started my journey to the amazing world of the synths, that’s why I was reading all what I could find about synths and synth history and how and why they made some of the legendary synths and which synths were competition to those classic Roland synths that I have as emulations in Jupiter Xm (Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-101 and JX-8P). I discovered synths about 2 years ago and they changed my life and perception of music. Now I have Hydrasynth and I just touched FM synthesis, but this video encouraged me to give one more try to MODX as a FM synth (I used it only as a rompler on some gigs). In addition to that I saw your video about Yamaha VA synth engine for new Montage+. If they would enable VA engine to MODX as well it would be great to have Yamaha VA synth engine. Subscribed! 🙂
I don't think it was physically possible with the processor in the old Montage. The new Montage main processor is MUCH faster (it calculates Smart Morph interpolations in less than a second - the old Montage and MODX took about 15 seconds). And with that faster processor, they can do real-time oscilloscope display.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Right, but Yamaha may have been inspired by your video to decide to put it in the M. Although they may have decided that a bit longer ago…
Thanks Scott, I'd suggest in addition to the basic wave shaping to demonstrate the filter and the effect block entirely missing on the DX7. It would showcase the more 'analog' feel and progress into the area of D50 - another classical synth that had superseded DX7 due to its extra features.
Wow, thank you for this! I've been wondering how this works. Haven't programmed analog sounds since my old Kawai K3 back in the 1980's! Already saved this video for future reference (got stuck on the Algorithm Search cause it won't play a sound except on Algorithm 1...definitely something I'm doing wrong).
Thanks for the tutorial. I’m still not able to spend much time on my MODX8, but will have more time starting next month. I am very interested in creating sounds, not really trying to recreate sounds that match a sound from someone else. At 67 almost 68 I thought MODX would be a simpler way for me to play around with sounds. I’m really more of a bass player, keyboard is a recent adventure.
Great video. I own a Montage and really haven’t explored its FM-X capabilities. I like this type of “under the hood” type of videos, especially for the Montage. I would like to see more using FM-X to create a famous patch from the ground up and then maybe do the same patch with other synths.
Something that would be very interesting to explore would be Roland Tone structure that seems to be a very rare discussed subject in synthesis ! You know..the four tone or partials combination found in most traditional Roland PCM synth.
It's a good video and I'll study up your tutorial to learn about programming the FM-X engine in my MODX. Excellent explanation about the subtractive analog synth abilities of the Montage & MODX. I don't think they are only created via the FM-X engine, but also by the AMW2 engine. Although the Montage & MODX can do a surprisingly good job of recreating analog sounds, I don't think it technically has a virtual analog engine like the Roland Fantom, Jupiter-X, System 8 or the Korg Kronos/Nautilus do. But what is very surprising, is how good the Montage & MODX stack up to those keyboards for those kind of sounds. Having explored the Fantom/Jupiter-X/System 8 available sounds from Roland via their software versions and gone through many expansion models & sound packs, as an 80s/70s classic rock performer I've found more suitable recreations of those kind of sounds available for the Montage & MODX than I have with Roland's offerings, even with it's various VA engines. Roland's own sound collectiions largely focus on Synth Pop & rap, which I don't play. I've also never been too impressed with Korg's VA offferings in the Kronos or Nautilus either, simply because, the kinds of keyboards used by the original bands I cover were generally, not made with Roland or Korg analog synths in the first place. They used Oberheim, Moogs, ARP's, Prophet, etc. The strength of finding this kind of sounds for the Montage/MODX is because the MOTIF series was also able to recreate some of them too, and you can import over 20 years worth of MOTIF series sounds from the numerous 3rd party sound collections from the MOTIF series into your Montage & MODX. Still if you want maximum flexibility and the very best recreations of those kind of analog synths, go with exact VST recreations of them. But the Montage/MODX will generally get you as close as Roland or Korg's flagship offerings. I tend to think creating sounds from scratch would be easier on a Roland or Korg however. Fortunately, tons of expert sound designers who make sounds for Yamaha so we don't have to make most of them ourselves. For the kind of analog sounds I need for my bands without trying to always make them from scratch myself, I believe the Montage & MODX will do as good a job or better than the Fantom, Jupiter-X, System 8, or Nautilus simply because, there are far more sound collections made that are compatible with the Montage & MODX where expert 3rd party programmers have already made many of these kinds of sounds I need. The Kronos also has a lot of great 3rd party sounds too, but the Nautilus is incompatible with more than half the 3rd party Kronos sound collections, which is a huge disadvantage. I also want to point out for those that don't have a Montage, MODX or OpSix, Yamaha recently released the FM-X engine of the Montage/MODX as a VST soft synths through Steinberg software whom Yamaha owns. I wish they had offered the full Montage/MODX as software, but the FM-X engine now exists as a VST. It's called FM Lab. Look it up online. Korg also offers their OpSix keyboard as a VST also, which I agree is also very good.
The FM Lab engine for Halion has a lot of similarities to FM-X, but it is definitely not the same thing. Patches from the FM-X engine in MODX/Montage cannot be transferred to FM Lab. But you're correct that the MODX/Montage do not have a true VA engine. That requires that the oscillators themselves be modeled. You can get close by using sampled AWM waves of analog synths, and then run them through the filters, envelopes, mod engine and effects of the synth. But things that are the realm of analog (or VA) synths such as oscillator sync or other similar technics where the oscillator itself is modulated can't really be recreated accurately. That said, using the FM-X engine to create those oscillators means that you can directly modulate the FM-X parameters and get pretty close to the same effect, then running the result through filters, envelopes, mod engine and effects. For classic analog sounds, for me, nothing is faster than a knob-per-function synth. My System-8, which is designed specifically to do this, trounces my Montage. The Fantom and JP-X have modeled engines, and can do the same things...but definitely not as easily and require menu diving. I have two Fantoms and a System-8, as well as a Juno-106 and SH-101, and to my ear, the difference between the modeled versions on the Fantoms and System-8 and the real thing are pretty much indistinguishable.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Someone had posted online that is was the FM-X engine, but maybe they were incorrect in saying that. It does say on the FM Lab page "The Algorithm Finder is loaded with all the algorithms from Yamaha’s legendary DX7, TX81Z and modern FM-X synth engine". The VST would have to offer FM-X compatibility to be of much use to me. But then again, I have the MODX so I don't really need it. I think a lot of the classic analog recreations for the Montage/MODX are done by a combination of the AWM2 engine & sometimes combined with the FM-X engine too. I use Roland's VST's, which includes most of the Fantom engines as well as the System 8. I also like that with their software option, they offer some of their famous classic synths not available for the Fantom, or System 8 such as the D-50 and others and that they also offer both the user interface of the Fantom/Jupiter-X or a user interface that functions more like the original synths they modeled and with the better sounding ACB modeling plus the ZenCore modeling so you get your choice. I prefer editing sounds and working with a computer than menu diving on keyboards. Korg is starting to offer their newer technologies as VST's also, and I hope Yamaha gets more into that. Ideally, a person should be able to choose either a hardware keyboard or software VST's for modern digital synthesizers.
I have the opsix and I’m not planning on getting a Montage, but it was nevertheless very interesting to get a glimpse into the workflow of the Montage. Having an oscilloscope constantly on screen to show the waveform is a great idea. In the future however, you might consider trying to set the vertical attenuation (Volts/DIV) on the Rigol so that the waveform is not clipping. You can see that the waveform on the Rigol scope was clipping at the top and the bottom almost during the entire video. This doesn’t produce a faithful representation of the actual waveform coming out from the synth, because this clipping is happening inside the oscilloscope due to the fact that the waveform hits the upper and lower part of the scope screen. Turning the volts/DIV knob one step in the anti-clockwise direction would have taken the displayed amplitude down to a level which doesn’t cause it to clip and distort on the scope screen. Great video and keep up the good work.
I have been torn between the Montage/Modx vs Roland Fantom/07-08. Glad - very glad I chose the Nord Wave 2 instead. More playing, less or, ehh - no menu diving. It takes no time to make or alter an existing sound on a Nord Stage or Wave. Something the Japanese brands could learn of. And maybe they have. Just look at the new Yamaha YC series. Does it have something in common with the Nord Stage 😉 Physical buttons and sliders at your fingertips is just more fun and engaging for me. But very good video. One could wish the coming Montage + could be more intuitive, engaging and user friendly.
When I try to do fm sound design on MODX, I have a hard time getting sounds out of carriers. I only get 1 sound on 1 carrier. I'm also trying to duplicate what you're doing. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
I have buyer's remorse. I just purchased the Fantom for $3,600 to save money. I will eventually buy the EX upgrade. With that said, the only thing the Fantom is supposed to be better than the Montage at is the synthesizer. The Zen-Core is supposed to compete with the FM-X, but I feel so limited with it unless I pay $250 for the Zenology, the soft synth version.
Aha, you've fallen into the Roland trap! Overpriced synths and paid upgrades, endless Roland Cloud membership fees... That said, n/zyme (which you get with the EX) is excellent.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I have been interested in soft synths for a few months now. I picked up Phase Plant and may even consider UVI Falcon. While Phase Plant is cheaper than Zenology Pro and a lot more powerful, I would say that it might even be worth adding Zenology to my collection. It might have additional MUSICAL presets and will make it easier to modify them. N/zyme has the potential to be great, as it adds a wavetable in the mix. However, the presets are not impressive. Roland needs to do a better job marketing it. As I discovered, making sounds from scratch isn't easy. You're almost better sampling or playing around with a preset that is close to what you want. In order to create a sound from scratch, you must develop an ear on how the sound wave may look like. Does it sound closer to a sawtooth wave? What about a square wave? What about the effects? Do I hear a highly detuned chorus? So yeah, while it sucks that Roland is charging for their products for some, I do appreciate them always trying to create something awesome that I may consider buying. By the way, I wish Roland can add some really cool acoustic violins that I can buy. The Seattle violin by the Montage is magical. I have a new Fantom coming in tomorrow as the demo version that I received from Sweetwater was broke. I couldn't hear audio from the left speaker. That might be enough to almost make me like the Fantom violin a little bit more, but I don't seeing it closing the gap by a lot. Lastly, after reading the documentation for both Montage and the Fantom, I would say that the Fantom does have the synth edge, though if you were to compare the Montage M with the Fantom, then the gap is closed a bit more. It seems like Yamaha improved the Montage M in almost every way. I also love the sound wave that you see as you play. It would be nice if the Fantom can get that in a future update.
Hi Scott! Thanks you for this! One question! I can't control the operators with the faders, even though the element /operator mode is activated on the left side of the faders.
I was just messing with this today because I noticed my Modx doesnt have faders like the montage. Looks like the faders control the OP Level parameter. its found in the Level tab thats below Form/Freq. (theres only two tabs on OP options) It goes from 0-99 and is next to the Level/Vel box. instead of using faders you need to manually bring up and down the level using scroll wheel.
@@alterI4 I don't know if you figured it out in the 5 months since, but if you press the button next to the faders labelled "PART" you can switch between ELEMENT and OPERATOR. Then you'll be able to use the faders instead of manually changing the OP level each time!
Scott I know your busy but your plblowin my mind here. Hope you see this. You recently said the hydra synth would be your desert island synth , but would it not be a modx/montage ? Maybe the montage 8x will have wavetable and granular and just take it all the way.
If you look at my ruclips.net/video/hDJU6qke0HM/видео.html video, I actually talk about this. The Montage if I need it to actually make/produce music, the Hydrasynth if I want to do synthesis and sound design.
An oscilloscope just reads whatever you feed into it. So to connect it to an audio source, you connect it across the ground and signal of whatever it is you want to visualize.
I think this is an awesome keyboard but idk what it is with these workstations the makes me feel like the miss Low end and low mid power. The price and features of this very compelling though. I wish there was one with the Roland engine and the Yamaha fm in one 🤣
I get sound with only the first slider up (I know I only have 4 sliders as only got ModX8+ It is about 4mins 26 secs into your video. If I put first slider down and second one up I hear nothing. I’ve followed your instructions exactly up to this section. And on 6.25 I pick the same algorithm you choose and get no sound either
I have the modx8, so the way I made it work is by changing the Level patameter manually rather than with fader. In each OP menu click the Level tab on the left, and at the bottom there should be a box that says Level. If that level is at 99 it means on the “slider” is all the way up, if its at 0 it means its down. Hope that makes sense. I feel like that was a tricky thing to figure out might have to follow up with a video showing how his programing works on the modx8
It is definitely very different, and definitely not as simple. I don't know that I would go as far as calling it a nightmare, but with great capability comes some complexity in order to support that capability.
So that's 9 sawtooth waves, and you didn't even use the fourth pair in the algorithm. That's also only three parts in the Performance, so you could conceivably make a Performance that is 32 sawtooth waves...? Am I doing that math right on what's possible with this engine?
If you dont have the montage faders you have to raise the level manually. By default OP 1 will be at level 99 and OP2 will be at 0. Use the scroll wheel to move the levels up and down. It was confusing for me too, but then I realized thats all the faders are doing.
"New FM synthesis is so much easier, it's the future now!" also FM Synthesis *takes 20 minutes to make a basic sawtooth and square wave pad.* It's a no for me dawg.
Multiple parts of eight oscillator FM synthesis, with alternative wave shapes. We are spoilt for sure. That was very well explained.
I've watched this video over and over again. It was somewhat challenging on the MODX. BUT I thank you for knowledge.
Having the oscilloscope is a great idea! Having a visual representation of the waves makes it a lot easier to understand. Great work!
It really helps me - that is my "good" scope you see in the video, but I've also got a crappy DSO kit one that sits here plugged into the mixer just for everyday use :)
1052. A brilliant scope 😊
You said leave a comment, so here it is. One way to experiment with the sound you are creating is to select another or all the other algorithms (individually) to see how the sound changes as it’s processed by the other algorithms. Sometimes you find one that does a better job than the one you’re fighting with.
Thank you a ton sir! I was starting to get depressed trying to figure this out i was afraid I wasted money on this keyboard because I couldn’t figure out how to tweak the synth leads. now I realize sound design is possible its just alot more nuanced than I anticipated. Im starting to understand!
Thanks for this video. I am definitely going to dive into this FM programming with my MOD+, sure it's gonna be funny.
Hey Scott, I’m a keen follower of your channel and on the back of watching a few MODX videos I just taken the leap and grabbed one myself. I’ll be rewatching those videos with even greater interest. Thanks.
As an electronic music fan. 80s synthwave, industrial dance, etc i have been looking into playing with synths learn to play the 80s riffs and recreate those amazing sounds. I like the montage for the versatility i would need as a very true beg as never playing a piano/keyboard plus messing wuth the sound design aide. As a newbie to the ins and outs i have to wrap my head around what you are describing, but the more of your videos i watch the more it is all sinking in. Well done.
Hey Scott this was interesting and instructive. Thanks for taking the time to show us. I would like to see you create some actual patches
I love the video, I learned a lot. I have the modx but never bothered to learn the fm x engine and I am excited that you have created this. Not many videos out there that goes into this and I really hope they you will create additional videos like this. Maybe a series into recreating some fm sounds on the modex that simulated other sounds from other synths you have
I hear virtually no one talk about the EssenceFM when they talk about FM. It's by far the best FM synth I've ever used.
Good straightforward tutorial on how to do it... Thank you... 🙂
Thank you so much! This video has been exactly what I was looking for. I have still some experiences in creating sounds with several synthesizers but always the fm-synthesis had been a task. You were very helpful, especially because I own a modx7 - so keep on making videos and have good year 2024! Greetings, Peer
Absolutely great! Thank you! Kind of videos I am really missing. Finally a explanation of basic knowledge. There are many sounds I want to rebuild in my MODX. Especially supersaws of Techno-Musik (e.g. AW - Faded) . Please continue, if there is more information to know.
Great Scott as Always, very informative & easy to understand for fellas like ne who are not too technically minded. Thanks again.
Pulling out all the stops, thanks!
Excellent video, thanks. The only experimentation I've done so far after years of ownership is to play with some of the performances that I bought from Easysounds, but never really understood what it is I'm doing!
Very educational 🎶
I have a MODX, but it was to complicated to learn synthesis with FM synthesis 2 years ago when I bought it, because the greatest classic synth sounds were created with subtractive analog synths and that’s why one month after MODX I bought Roland Jupiter Xm and I’m glad I did, because I learned almost everything what I know about synths and synthesis with Jupiter Xm. I love it particularly because except Roland filter it has Moog and Sequential P5 filter and emulations of 4 classic Roland synths, so I could experience how is it to work with different synths with different possibilities and characteristics and that every synth is not good for all sounds. With Jupiter Xm started my journey to the amazing world of the synths, that’s why I was reading all what I could find about synths and synth history and how and why they made some of the legendary synths and which synths were competition to those classic Roland synths that I have as emulations in Jupiter Xm (Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-101 and JX-8P). I discovered synths about 2 years ago and they changed my life and perception of music. Now I have Hydrasynth and I just touched FM synthesis, but this video encouraged me to give one more try to MODX as a FM synth (I used it only as a rompler on some gigs). In addition to that I saw your video about Yamaha VA synth engine for new Montage+. If they would enable VA engine to MODX as well it would be great to have Yamaha VA synth engine.
Subscribed! 🙂
Awesome, they listened to you and put the scope in the m8x,which for us engineers is not just a cool gadget, but actually helpful!
I don't think it was physically possible with the processor in the old Montage. The new Montage main processor is MUCH faster (it calculates Smart Morph interpolations in less than a second - the old Montage and MODX took about 15 seconds). And with that faster processor, they can do real-time oscilloscope display.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Right, but Yamaha may have been inspired by your video to decide to put it in the M. Although they may have decided that a bit longer ago…
This was a cool video! I like to watch how other synths work just for fun or because I'm enquiring whether I want one.
Great job, Scott! DX7 is my all-time favorite. Yamaha gave us 2 extra operators on Montage as homage.
I had one back in the day. The DX7 has an excellent keybed as well!
Just bought the modx8+ and it's gonna help me a lot when starting with fm Sound Design!
Thanks Scott, I'd suggest in addition to the basic wave shaping to demonstrate the filter and the effect block entirely missing on the DX7. It would showcase the more 'analog' feel and progress into the area of D50 - another classical synth that had superseded DX7 due to its extra features.
Wow, thank you for this! I've been wondering how this works. Haven't programmed analog sounds since my old Kawai K3 back in the 1980's! Already saved this video for future reference (got stuck on the Algorithm Search cause it won't play a sound except on Algorithm 1...definitely something I'm doing wrong).
Thanks for the tutorial. I’m still not able to spend much time on my MODX8, but will have more time starting next month. I am very interested in creating sounds, not really trying to recreate sounds that match a sound from someone else. At 67 almost 68 I thought MODX would be a simpler way for me to play around with sounds. I’m really more of a bass player, keyboard is a recent adventure.
Great video. I own a Montage and really haven’t explored its FM-X capabilities. I like this type of “under the hood” type of videos, especially for the Montage. I would like to see more using FM-X to create a famous patch from the ground up and then maybe do the same patch with other synths.
Super learnful - Thanks alot!!
Excellent video!!!!!
Something that would be very interesting to explore would be Roland Tone structure that seems to be a very rare discussed subject in synthesis ! You know..the four tone or partials combination found in most traditional Roland PCM synth.
Your videos are great!!! They help a lot.
Great video.Thx!
It's a good video and I'll study up your tutorial to learn about programming the FM-X engine in my MODX.
Excellent explanation about the subtractive analog synth abilities of the Montage & MODX. I don't think they are only created via the FM-X engine, but also by the AMW2 engine. Although the Montage & MODX can do a surprisingly good job of recreating analog sounds, I don't think it technically has a virtual analog engine like the Roland Fantom, Jupiter-X, System 8 or the Korg Kronos/Nautilus do. But what is very surprising, is how good the Montage & MODX stack up to those keyboards for those kind of sounds. Having explored the Fantom/Jupiter-X/System 8 available sounds from Roland via their software versions and gone through many expansion models & sound packs, as an 80s/70s classic rock performer I've found more suitable recreations of those kind of sounds available for the Montage & MODX than I have with Roland's offerings, even with it's various VA engines. Roland's own sound collectiions largely focus on Synth Pop & rap, which I don't play. I've also never been too impressed with Korg's VA offferings in the Kronos or Nautilus either, simply because, the kinds of keyboards used by the original bands I cover were generally, not made with Roland or Korg analog synths in the first place. They used Oberheim, Moogs, ARP's, Prophet, etc. The strength of finding this kind of sounds for the Montage/MODX is because the MOTIF series was also able to recreate some of them too, and you can import over 20 years worth of MOTIF series sounds from the numerous 3rd party sound collections from the MOTIF series into your Montage & MODX. Still if you want maximum flexibility and the very best recreations of those kind of analog synths, go with exact VST recreations of them. But the Montage/MODX will generally get you as close as Roland or Korg's flagship offerings. I tend to think creating sounds from scratch would be easier on a Roland or Korg however. Fortunately, tons of expert sound designers who make sounds for Yamaha so we don't have to make most of them ourselves.
For the kind of analog sounds I need for my bands without trying to always make them from scratch myself, I believe the Montage & MODX will do as good a job or better than the Fantom, Jupiter-X, System 8, or Nautilus simply because, there are far more sound collections made that are compatible with the Montage & MODX where expert 3rd party programmers have already made many of these kinds of sounds I need. The Kronos also has a lot of great 3rd party sounds too, but the Nautilus is incompatible with more than half the 3rd party Kronos sound collections, which is a huge disadvantage.
I also want to point out for those that don't have a Montage, MODX or OpSix, Yamaha recently released the FM-X engine of the Montage/MODX as a VST soft synths through Steinberg software whom Yamaha owns. I wish they had offered the full Montage/MODX as software, but the FM-X engine now exists as a VST. It's called FM Lab. Look it up online. Korg also offers their OpSix keyboard as a VST also, which I agree is also very good.
The FM Lab engine for Halion has a lot of similarities to FM-X, but it is definitely not the same thing. Patches from the FM-X engine in MODX/Montage cannot be transferred to FM Lab.
But you're correct that the MODX/Montage do not have a true VA engine. That requires that the oscillators themselves be modeled. You can get close by using sampled AWM waves of analog synths, and then run them through the filters, envelopes, mod engine and effects of the synth. But things that are the realm of analog (or VA) synths such as oscillator sync or other similar technics where the oscillator itself is modulated can't really be recreated accurately.
That said, using the FM-X engine to create those oscillators means that you can directly modulate the FM-X parameters and get pretty close to the same effect, then running the result through filters, envelopes, mod engine and effects.
For classic analog sounds, for me, nothing is faster than a knob-per-function synth. My System-8, which is designed specifically to do this, trounces my Montage. The Fantom and JP-X have modeled engines, and can do the same things...but definitely not as easily and require menu diving.
I have two Fantoms and a System-8, as well as a Juno-106 and SH-101, and to my ear, the difference between the modeled versions on the Fantoms and System-8 and the real thing are pretty much indistinguishable.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Someone had posted online that is was the FM-X engine, but maybe they were incorrect in saying that.
It does say on the FM Lab page "The Algorithm Finder is loaded with all the algorithms from Yamaha’s legendary DX7, TX81Z and modern FM-X synth engine".
The VST would have to offer FM-X compatibility to be of much use to me. But then again, I have the MODX so I don't really need it.
I think a lot of the classic analog recreations for the Montage/MODX are done by a combination of the AWM2 engine & sometimes combined with the FM-X engine too.
I use Roland's VST's, which includes most of the Fantom engines as well as the System 8. I also like that with their software option, they offer some of their famous classic synths not available for the Fantom, or System 8 such as the D-50 and others and that they also offer both the user interface of the Fantom/Jupiter-X or a user interface that functions more like the original synths they modeled and with the better sounding ACB modeling plus the ZenCore modeling so you get your choice.
I prefer editing sounds and working with a computer than menu diving on keyboards. Korg is starting to offer their newer technologies as VST's also, and I hope Yamaha gets more into that. Ideally, a person should be able to choose either a hardware keyboard or software VST's for modern digital synthesizers.
I have the opsix and I’m not planning on getting a Montage, but it was nevertheless very interesting to get a glimpse into the workflow of the Montage. Having an oscilloscope constantly on screen to show the waveform is a great idea. In the future however, you might consider trying to set the vertical attenuation (Volts/DIV) on the Rigol so that the waveform is not clipping. You can see that the waveform on the Rigol scope was clipping at the top and the bottom almost during the entire video. This doesn’t produce a faithful representation of the actual waveform coming out from the synth, because this clipping is happening inside the oscilloscope due to the fact that the waveform hits the upper and lower part of the scope screen. Turning the volts/DIV knob one step in the anti-clockwise direction would have taken the displayed amplitude down to a level which doesn’t cause it to clip and distort on the scope screen.
Great video and keep up the good work.
That was really helpful! Do you have any more videos or know any resources for learning more about fm synthesis?
I have been torn between the Montage/Modx vs Roland Fantom/07-08.
Glad - very glad I chose the Nord Wave 2 instead.
More playing, less or, ehh - no menu diving.
It takes no time to make or alter an existing sound on a Nord Stage or Wave. Something the Japanese brands could learn of.
And maybe they have. Just look at the new Yamaha YC series. Does it have something in common with the Nord Stage 😉
Physical buttons and sliders at your fingertips is just more fun and engaging for me.
But very good video. One could wish the coming Montage + could be more intuitive, engaging and user friendly.
When I try to do fm sound design on MODX, I have a hard time getting sounds out of carriers. I only get 1 sound on 1 carrier. I'm also trying to duplicate what you're doing. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
I have buyer's remorse. I just purchased the Fantom for $3,600 to save money. I will eventually buy the EX upgrade. With that said, the only thing the Fantom is supposed to be better than the Montage at is the synthesizer. The Zen-Core is supposed to compete with the FM-X, but I feel so limited with it unless I pay $250 for the Zenology, the soft synth version.
Aha, you've fallen into the Roland trap! Overpriced synths and paid upgrades, endless Roland Cloud membership fees...
That said, n/zyme (which you get with the EX) is excellent.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I have been interested in soft synths for a few months now. I picked up Phase Plant and may even consider UVI Falcon. While Phase Plant is cheaper than Zenology Pro and a lot more powerful, I would say that it might even be worth adding Zenology to my collection. It might have additional MUSICAL presets and will make it easier to modify them. N/zyme has the potential to be great, as it adds a wavetable in the mix. However, the presets are not impressive. Roland needs to do a better job marketing it. As I discovered, making sounds from scratch isn't easy. You're almost better sampling or playing around with a preset that is close to what you want. In order to create a sound from scratch, you must develop an ear on how the sound wave may look like. Does it sound closer to a sawtooth wave? What about a square wave? What about the effects? Do I hear a highly detuned chorus?
So yeah, while it sucks that Roland is charging for their products for some, I do appreciate them always trying to create something awesome that I may consider buying. By the way, I wish Roland can add some really cool acoustic violins that I can buy. The Seattle violin by the Montage is magical. I have a new Fantom coming in tomorrow as the demo version that I received from Sweetwater was broke. I couldn't hear audio from the left speaker. That might be enough to almost make me like the Fantom violin a little bit more, but I don't seeing it closing the gap by a lot.
Lastly, after reading the documentation for both Montage and the Fantom, I would say that the Fantom does have the synth edge, though if you were to compare the Montage M with the Fantom, then the gap is closed a bit more. It seems like Yamaha improved the Montage M in almost every way. I also love the sound wave that you see as you play. It would be nice if the Fantom can get that in a future update.
Hi Scott!
Thanks you for this!
One question!
I can't control the operators with the faders, even though the element /operator mode is activated on the left side of the faders.
I was just messing with this today because I noticed my Modx doesnt have faders like the montage. Looks like the faders control the OP Level parameter. its found in the Level tab thats below Form/Freq. (theres only two tabs on OP options) It goes from 0-99 and is next to the Level/Vel box. instead of using faders you need to manually bring up and down the level using scroll wheel.
@@alterI4 I don't know if you figured it out in the 5 months since, but if you press the button next to the faders labelled "PART" you can switch between ELEMENT and OPERATOR. Then you'll be able to use the faders instead of manually changing the OP level each time!
Make a crazy sound with layers😊😊😊😊😊😊
Scott I know your busy but your plblowin my mind here. Hope you see this.
You recently said the hydra synth would be your desert island synth , but would it not be a modx/montage ? Maybe the montage 8x will have wavetable and granular and just take it all the way.
If you look at my ruclips.net/video/hDJU6qke0HM/видео.html video, I actually talk about this. The Montage if I need it to actually make/produce music, the Hydrasynth if I want to do synthesis and sound design.
Hi scott thanks for the great explanation could u pleas explain how u connected the Oszilloskop? Thanks
An oscilloscope just reads whatever you feed into it. So to connect it to an audio source, you connect it across the ground and signal of whatever it is you want to visualize.
I think this is an awesome keyboard but idk what it is with these workstations the makes me feel like the miss Low end and low mid power. The price and features of this very compelling though. I wish there was one with the Roland engine and the Yamaha fm in one 🤣
Well I expected the FM-X GUI to be a bit more intuitive. My beloved SY77 is not really harder to program.
Hey Scott. I would like to ask you about the oscillator. Is it in ipad? Ehich software is it ? Or a hardware oscillator ? Which one?
The FM-X "oscillator" (made up of carriers and modulators) is entirely done in the hardware DSP chips on the synth.
Make more
I get sound with only the first slider up (I know I only have 4 sliders as only got ModX8+
It is about 4mins 26 secs into your video. If I put first slider down and second one up I hear nothing. I’ve followed your instructions exactly up to this section. And on 6.25 I pick the same algorithm you choose and get no sound either
I have the modx8, so the way I made it work is by changing the Level patameter manually rather than with fader. In each OP menu click the Level tab on the left, and at the bottom there should be a box that says Level. If that level is at 99 it means on the “slider” is all the way up, if its at 0 it means its down. Hope that makes sense. I feel like that was a tricky thing to figure out might have to follow up with a video showing how his programing works on the modx8
I want that shirt! Where did you get it?
My wife bought it for me, and she says she doesn't remember. Sorry!
Is sound design on the montage a nightmare compared to something like the system 8?
It is definitely very different, and definitely not as simple. I don't know that I would go as far as calling it a nightmare, but with great capability comes some complexity in order to support that capability.
So that's 9 sawtooth waves, and you didn't even use the fourth pair in the algorithm. That's also only three parts in the Performance, so you could conceivably make a Performance that is 32 sawtooth waves...? Am I doing that math right on what's possible with this engine?
Whenever I change my algorithm I no longer have sound. Anyone know a fix?
If you dont have the montage faders you have to raise the level manually. By default OP 1 will be at level 99 and OP2 will be at 0. Use the scroll wheel to move the levels up and down. It was confusing for me too, but then I realized thats all the faders are doing.
"New FM synthesis is so much easier, it's the future now!"
also FM Synthesis
*takes 20 minutes to make a basic sawtooth and square wave pad.*
It's a no for me dawg.