Balun Choke Myths - The Long Overdue Clarification
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- In this video, we dive deep into the world of ham radios to debunk the common myth surrounding chokes and baluns. Join us as we explore the truth behind these components and separate fact from fiction. If you're a ham radio enthusiast looking to enhance your knowledge, this is a must-watch! Stay tuned to stay informed and educated on all things ham radio.
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Now I am not the Ham Police but, Another Masterpiece my friend!
lol, thanks Paddy 👍
@@TheSmokinApe No worries Ape, most of us just really appreciate you publishing this information. I hate that you guys have to put up with these lonely types.
Eh, if they didn’t we wouldn’t make videos like this 😮
As new-ish ham in the hobby, I find that most of these "experts" we encounter don't bother reading and simply parrot other "experts" and their practices and misinformation. This is what most people suffer from: not doing their own hard work. What they really don't realize is how much of a turn-off their behavior is to new hams and because of it, hampering this hobby. Human nature is an odd thing. Thanks, Ape!
Totally agree. Thanks for watching James, glad you liked it 👍
I’m not the ham police but I am an electrical engineer and again you’re correct! Let’s get on with testing these and showing well they work stopping common mode. Keep up the good work.
Hey Thuff, thanks for watching 👍
Loved the ham police picture. Looks familiar!
Haha
The quick flash of the Tres Amigos de la Mythtaken Knowledge in the intro; the guy on the left looked suspiciously like my favorite mythmatched presenter from Fladuh.
😳
Ape, I just call them " common mode current choke" and "49:1 impedance transformer" and try to leave out the terms balun and unun all together...as long as we know what they do, we're good... nicely explained!
Hey Aniruddha, hope you are well. I tried that but the ham police don't like "impedance transformer" either... 🚨 👮♀️
Great video Ape. This is easy to understand, I don't know what's going on with the ham police, maybe they are a little emotional about the " power gain " an antenna tuner provides after the conjugate match on your first PTT press , maybe getting into Harry Potter's territory here, but let's move on. If it is installed at the antenna feed point and its only purpose is to balance currents, it is a balun. If it is installed down the transmission line, closer to the shack, it is a line isolator or common mode choke. If it is used as a matching transformer, there is little to no chocking action, thus the term balun transformer is more appropiate. 73's
Agreed, it's more about the application than the hardware. All of these applications take advantage of the same electronic principles, to address different (but still related) needs. Hardly worth arguing about.
Sounds reasonble to me. Good job. Jerry Sevick, as you likely know, wrote a couple of books on baluns and ununs.
Hey Philip, I have a few of them. Thank you for watching 👍
Asimple test for unbalaced to balanced is ---Use a cro and then a signal generator plus a small toroid transformer ,one winding for input and an output center tapped winding on the output.
Then put your 2 test leads from the cro on two legs and groung clips to the center tapped winding so you can see the 180 degree differance on the two probes. and bingo you have a unbalanced to balanced unit.
I use this for all my RF transformers and read up on transformers single ,dual ,3 phase, as it all applies for AC/-Audio/RF. Thanks for the primer keep up the good work.
Not a bad idea for a test, thanks for the comment Bob 👍
Good basic explanation. Would like to see more in-depth discussion on the differences between Guanella (current) baluns and Ruthroff (voltage) baluns. Ruthroff baluns do not suppress common mode currents.
Thanks Andy, that’s on the list 👍
I had no intention of arguing technicalities. Just curious where you found a picture of someone so profoundly constipated for the thumbnail picture.... :P
LOL! It's stock photography 👍
Sadly there are some in the hobby that spend their time trying their bast to trash the efforts of others.
I couldn’t agree more, I really don’t get it. Thank you for watching g0fvt 👍
great job explaining the choke balun. The ARRL antenna book is back in stock ! was sold out . what ever you call them, they work . even getting RF off a DC or AC power feed . 73's
Hey Robert, thanks for watching 👍
Hi Ape, obviously these folks just can’t understand what’s been studied by smart people is the true picture of the subject. Pull the chain, let it flow away, and keep producing content that is clearly useful to the hobby. Be safe. David
Thanks for watching David, I appreciate the comment 👍
Thanks for the many excellent videos. I am curious how the Balun Choke that is longer and skinny is constructed. Is it just 3-7 ferrite beads around the coax with shrink wrap around that? Have you ever explained how/why the ferrite bead chokes work? If not, then that might be an interesting video.
To follow the "Always Be Choking" (ABC) advice that you and others have shared I need to buy or build a few. Those skinnier chokes look nice because they are more streamlined (so I am thinking of buying a few), but my guess is they aren't as effective as the other ones you show and have explained are coax wound around a toroid.
Hey Cary, thank you for watching. The skinny ones are beads on coax, each bead is kind of like a turn through a toroid. I have tested both and what I typically see is that the toroids work better and are pretty cheap / easy to make. I've actually been working on a beaded choke and will have a video at some point, just have a lot of project going on at the same time.
I'm not the Ham Police, AND... 😁
Really enjoy your videos!
You presented support documentation to what was perceived as a claim... twice.
Good enough for me!
Thanks Roy, I appreciate you watching 👍
Love this . Thank you !
Thanks for watching 👍
Well, I’m not the ham police, BUT I have to tell you, Ape…..
I had an amazing New York strip with red potatoes, fried okra and garden salad for dinner this evening. Then the wife let me play some radio!
🤓 73s!
That sounds like a great dinner 😳
Another great well explained video Ape. I have noticed the cognitive dissonance can be pretty thick with some of the hams out there. Maybe what you telling them will sink in a little over time.
Hey Bryant, it’s crazy right? Instead of being concerned about what the device is doing they want to argue semantics about incorrect naming conventions. It’s crazy…
Here’s my question are the Ham police an unbalanced load?
I think so 😮
This comment made me snort with laughter. Well done sir 😂😅
We call 'em PO lease around here. Got my popcorn ready!
I'm sure more will show up 😳
Sad Hams are the equivalent of a hobby pilots thinking they are Top Gun fighter pilots! Whenever I used to run into them I'd always ask where they earned their EE degree. However I have no problem with Hams such as yourself and many other social media folk learning., experimenting, building and sharing their "earned" knowledge with others which really is the heart and soul of Amateur Radio. 73 *roger beep*
Thanks Doogs, glad you liked the video 👍
You need to start calling these sad-ham-correction episodes "The Banana Peel Slap"....great stuff, my friend
🤨 you have me thinking Todd 👍
Got'em Ape! Keep up the good work!
Thanks Dean 👍
I'm not the Ham Police, but I am very fond of bacon.
Also, nice clear explanation again. Thank you.
I like bacon too. Thanks for watching Iain 👍
My Moto - "I made it from old parts, It works, I'm a genius!"
Exactly, thanks for watching Tom 👍
As someone who has been involved with message boards since the 1990's; in one form or another this really comes down to what I call the "nay-sayers". People who just want to take an opposing view to whatever it is you want to present, and it really doesn't matter the subject being talked about or their knowledge on the subject.
This might be the truest comment ever…
I've found that it helps if you intentionally pronounce it, "Bay-`Len" for the ham police -- as in, it helps to make those forehead veins throb harder and the twitch more pronounced.
I’ll try that!
Thanks for the video.
I bet most of those "Ham Police" are licensed for less than 5 years, passed the licensing test strictly by blind memorization of answers (assuming they didn't just give a VE a few bucks to pass), and have no clue what Morse Code is, yet they consider themselves "experts". They have never grabbed pieces and parts from the junk box, added some scrap wire and actually soldered together an antenna. Their idea of "building" and antenna is buying pre-cut/pre-assembled "kits" on-line--and they'll believe whatever the advertisers tell them..
I feel this might be accurate. Let’s not forget get they repeat whatever they hear as well…
HOW DARE YOU use Logic, Reason, and Factual Proof, to set the record straight.
You keep this up... Common Sense Might Break Out!!! (GASP!)
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Keep Spreading the Good Word , Ape! 73 -mike
Haha, thanks for watching Mike 👍
Is there a way to look at those transformers on an oscilloscope? I mean to show anyone how they work by showing signals passing through different points, e.g. entrance and exit. I've heard about phase shift at that middle pass-through, and that makes sense, as flux should flow in one way in the toroid. Therefore, it determines the current phase, but I can't imagine the measuring circuit to see it.
ruclips.net/video/E9F7Aot_AFg/видео.html&ab_channel=TheSmokinApe
@@weather_wizard67 That's the frequency response measurement, and I'm curious to see the transformation of the signal-voltage response in time. For a regular transformer, that is simple-two input oscilloscopes and measurement of voltage on input and output, and you will see signal ratio and phase delay. But for chokes or baluns, will it be measure of voltage drop on coils. How can a signal with the common mode current be generated artificially, and then what to measure to see the current symmetric again after the choke?
I am betting those that claim your all coax balun cannot measure the difference between yours and what they claim is "balanced.
Get 'em Ape!! 🙂
lol, thanks for watching BA 👍
Can you have a 1:1 balun that isn't a choke and if so why would you ever use one?
Well the job of the Balun is to balance currents which really is the same role of the choke.
I worked in a shop of 32 well educated people. Ask a question and you were likely enlightened by 32 different opinions! I kind of focused on what worked and what didn't work. Same with this Amateur Radio hobby. I listen to multiple answers, look out for egos and pay attention to well reasoned explanations, then decide how I want to go about it. Let the rest of it go...
Hey Steve. 3 hams = 5 opinions 👀
You could drive the proof into their heads with the proof at the end of a nail, and they will still disagree. How many times I have heard that is a compromised antenna I'll never know. Any antenna is a compromised antenna unless you only operate it on the frequency it is cut for. Same people with beams with traps on the limbs. I just ignore them and build what I want, tune it and have fun.
Agreed Steven, thanks for watching and for the comment 👍
did ask you a question about nanovna in a previous vid but no answer....
What was it?
@@TheSmokinApevid "Alligator Test Leads and the NanoVNA" .... i thought you will be notified ... sorry
I worked in a machine shop as a cobbler for the counter intelligence department. Our sole job was to defund the ham police. Last I heard , bare grass and rocks made them take to the webs
They will never stop...
I sense a T shirt on the horizon
Haha
If it walks like a balun and talks like a balun, it probably is a balun.
It is all about how it electrical works, not how it is constructed.
💯 thanks for watching 👍
HAM POLICE LOL!! GREAT VIDEO BUDDY!!73!!
Thanks for watching 👍
YEAH!! You tell em Ape.. :)
lol, thanks for watching HB 👍
woo wooo wooooo ...Pull ovah, pull ovah! Put your hands on the balanced Un-Un and don't move! Bro, ....it is def not odd that you shook those folks out of their recliners.
lol Ron. Hope you have been doing well bro!
@@TheSmokinApe I'm good. Busy. Got me a fed job! I figure that I'll give them 5 years, to be vetted, and retire....3.5 years left!
@@Ron_C ah, working for the man! Congrats on the gig 🍻
@@TheSmokinApe Thanks! I'll have to tell you about it offline some day.
@@Ron_C hit me up on email thesmokinape @ gmail DOT com
Bad Ape, bad Ape,.....whacha gonna dooooo, whacha gonna dooooo when they come for youuuuuu....
👀. Thanks for watching FW
Shakes his fist at Ape
Lol
I am not a "HAM POLICE", HOWEVER ... I think you just did a "bal-bal" job on the subject Ape!
73 - KF6IF
Hey Phil, thanks for watching bro 👍
Balun Choke or Choke Balun 🤔🤔🤔 The later just sounds more correcter....
I can agree to that
Letting it sink in is how they get you
Sure is LC 🍻
Son you betta get off of my lawn 😅
lol 🍻
Just more evidence that (some? most?) hams are eager to argue about absolutely anything!
That being said, I'm sure somebody will want to argue with me about it. 😁
It really doesn’t matter what you call it anyway…. Some people are way too uptight 👍
We know facts wont stop the ham poilce
No, they wont...
I think you want to 'choke' the ham police!😂💪
👀
Would that make them undercover on plain clothes Ham police? Asking for a friend. Hi Hi 73
I think it would 😳
This sums it all up nicely: (SNL skit from 1976)
Wife: New Shimmer is a floor wax!
Husband: No, new Shimmer is a dessert topping!
Wife: It’s a floor wax!
Husband: It’s a dessert topping!
Wife: It’s a floor wax, I’m telling you!
Husband: It’s a dessert topping, you cow!
Spokesman: [ enters quickly ] Hey, hey, hey, calm down, you two. New Shimmer is both a floor wax and a dessert topping!
I see I'm not the only old guy around here.
@@socallars3748 LOL! I have a memory like a steel trap. 73
Hey Hollywood, thank you for watching 🍻
Ham 👮♂️🚨🚨🚨
Howdy 45 👍
Kinda boils down to nomenclature. Don't care what the thing does but what we call it
Pretty much, thanks for watching OA 👍
Hey I'm not the ham police but......REEEEEEEEEEEEEE! 😤
Sure your not 🤨
There is no such thing as a balun, or a choke, and there is no spoon.
It's all a scam, started by Big Spoon.
How do people eat soup without spoons?
I think some of your ham police need to go back to Ham Police College 😁
I think you are right 👍
Cq qrp qrp cq qrp lol
Right
I am running out of cat videos.
Need to get some more 😽
Recently, you commented "Interesting" on a video showing a 1:1 doesn't do anything but lose RF power output. Yet, here we are pi$$ing about what these lossy components should be called. Call them worthless. We all know that they are. The ARRL is in business to market these things. Of course they are going to promote them.
Lewallen wrote the article about common mode current and unbalanced lines but he marketed EZNEC which has nothing on CMC or on unbalanced lines.
Then you have all this test equipment and you don't know how to interpret what you see. I noticed that you deleted the one video that use the o-scope to possibly improperly bash a radio. It's easy to see you have not been in the trenches.
Read real engineering texts and not this pseudoscience garbage if you really want to know what is what.
Hey Jerry.
So I made that comment on that video with the 4:1, I assume that's what you are talking about? I did find it interesting because the results were not what I expected. Also, what I don't recall seeing in that video was an overview of the build or pics of the construction. So yes, it was "interesting" to me, is that triggering to you???
Yes, I have bought test equipment. I did that to learn and play with stuff I find "interesting." That video was taking down, for the reasons I explained to you... I mistakenly thought the scope was 500MHz and not 350MHz and I shouldn't have ran the 440 signal through... also, I wanted to rerun the test checking the input impedance AFTER we traded comment... I am a person, and as a result am subject to making a mistake. Is that triggering to you???
Send over the links to the "real" texts... that would be helpful. I'd love to take a look at them.
I'm not sure if this comment means you're not going to respond to my email but Chuck did pass along your info.
@@TheSmokinApe I replied. You were in the spam folder.
Trenches?? Seriously? This is a hobby and not WW2.
I care not what it is called! Monkey see, monkey do (a bit of wire and a ferrite toroid). I use a random wire, around 30m, with a 49:1 balun. In the shack, I initially use a manual tuner (Kenwood AT-230), to adjust my compatibility with 5W CW, (followed by the rigs ATU if required). This gives me all the voice bands I want, 160 to 10, just 100w from the rig, and I also seem to get excellent reception.
Thanks for the comment Tom 👍