The Book Club: Frankenstein by Mary Shelley with Gina Bontempo | The Book Club
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- The first science fiction novel ever written (over 200 years ago), Frankenstein is a tragic and cautionary tale about failed humanity, the dangers of scientific knowledge, an overreaching scientist playing “God,” and the universal desire for a sense of belonging. Enjoy this discussion of a gothic classic with Michael Knowles and Gina Bontempo!
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Frankenstein is one of my favorite books ever -it’s depth of love for mankind and seeing God in this book is so missed by mainstream people and Hollywood. It wasn’t as scary as they promote it to be, and I found myself crying at parts.
When I read this book, my primary thought about it was that it was about fatherlessness and perhaps more specifically illegitimacy. Frankenstein makes this "child" and when he finds out about it, he runs away. The monster has no name. His creator hates him. The monster is aching for what he doesn't have and expresses that longing in rage and crime.
I strongly agree. The overall tragedy of his mere existence is riddled with blight, dispair, and loneliness, of which are all further illustrated through Shelley's themes of belonging and utter loneliness. The matter of which can also be particularly true during the few chapters where the 'nameless fiend' relays his secret life with the cottage dwellers to Frankenstein.
I can say from experience, you are exactly right.
I am a fatherless child, having never known my creator I identified wholeheartedly with the wretch.
When I first read this book it was like the book was pieced together from my own inner thoughts and emotions about being abandoned by my father.
Am I a wretch? What is wrong with me that I could be so easily discarded?
Rage filled my youth and I wandered aimlessly looking for companionship in much the same way the wretch does in the story.
I've grown out of despair over the years however there is a lingering ambition to chase and torment the man who gave me the spark of life and ran from it.
I treasure this book.
This can all be related even much further back to the story of illegitimate creation in the book of Enoch where the Watchers took it upon themselves to disobey God and father children with mortal human women creating the Nephilim as alluded to in the old Testament Genesis 6.
This really triggered you, didn’t it? That’s so sad. Please indulge me in a thought: you may not know your earthly father, but please know that we all have a Heavenly Father. (I don’t know if you are a believer, but please don’t dismiss this.). Please know that God our father would not want you to hunt down your earthly father, but to turn to him and allow him (God) to stand in the stead of your earthly father. It is so sad that we treat life so cheaply, but you have not been cheaply made - you have been fearfully and wonderfully made. Don’t allow your life to be cheap. Make it what God made it - a life worth living and living well. Be well. You have so much healing to do. Go and be well.
@@mrsjobo6458 I don't know if you're talking to me, but God has been an even more absentee father than my actual DNA blood related father. Even my birth father has at least had to pay child support, God has never actually done anything for me not even a damn thing.
Guys, please, I beg of you, do The Count of Monte Cristo! One of many books that are so popular and yet talked about so little. I would love to see a deep discussion on this book.🙏 please. Thanks.😊 love your videos.
@Papa F Jose there is a lot to why I think its an amazing story. Where do I even begin? I think I would have to start by saying that it is much more than just an adventure novel about a man that gets screwed, and then goes on a quest of revenge. The subject of revenge is turned into more than just why is revenge bad. It begins with revenge yes, but than over a period of time it transforms into something much deeper. Questions of revenge turn into questions about the limits of human justice, and the limits and weaknesses of the legal justice system itself. I saw this in the relationship between the Count, and Monsieur Villefort. One other thing I found interesting in the story was the shift in the main character. The Count turns into the antagonist. There are several ways where this is evident but, but one I found very interesting was his use of the Bible to excuse his decisions. He uses the Exodus 20:5 "... for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" But then he completely neglects other scripture such as Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." or Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. He uses these verses to justify not only getting revenge on Fernand, and Mercedes, Danglars, and Villefort, but there families that never had anything to do with what happened twenty years ago to the count. There is much more to the book than just that, but its hard to summarize, which is why I think it needs to be discussed more often. I do really want to read the original French. I hope this makes sense and answers your question, and thanks for asking.
@Papa F Jose Yes, I love that quote! And I did know this about Dumas. It's very interesting. Have you ever read the Black Count, Thomas Reiss? It's like biography about Dumas father. It is very sad what's going on now. I think that a lot of people are waking up though, and I hope we get back on track. I know it is still possible. Quick question what did you think about the book's ending, when the Count ends up with Haydee?
I love this book! Still have it in my little library, adding it to my stack to read again! Great choice!🙋♀️
@@tappychef1098 only read it once last year for the first time. Not very useful for quarantine when you can't get out and talk about it to anyone about it😊
@Papa F Jose I haven't read the Black Count but I have wondered if it was any good. I wasn't quite sure, but I was afraid of people using the fact that Dumas was of mixed race as propaganda. I'm not sure if this is still happening, ( because the Rona) but recently I saw an article about a new film adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo, and they were going to cast a black man as the Count. I don't know how this would work. I have nothing against black actors, but if your only casting someone for the color of their skin and not for there skill or even understanding of their character, then your missing the point. Something that really aggravates me is when people in the entertainment and art industry use race as a tool instead of creating good art, and things that are beautiful and complex. Or perhaps one of the worst, changing a well loved and appreciated story and changing it to fit the progressive slot so that the left will be happy. That sort of adaptation is not needed. I have not seen one decent adaptation of this story and I would love to, but I wish someone would focus on making an adaptation that would do the original story justice by looking at the artistic and philosophical value of it instead of shaping it for their own narrative.
"I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.”
Relatable
Thanks for this review. I read this while in elementary or junior high school. It has been decades since I last revisited it. It is possibly the first modern science fiction novel.
“Frankenstein. Thou art my Creator. Thou hast shaped me into being with thine own hands. I was meant to be your Adam but instead I an thy fallen angel”
That was a Michael Crichton line from Jurassic Park: "They spent time asking if they could, but never asked the question if they should recreate dinosaurs." Definitely original and not something from many 90s movies, yet it was so potent that no one can believe someone recently came up with that. RIP Crichton.
Human and animal cloning will become a reality soon and we might think that this kind of science are not immorral and evil. The future is quite scary. 😱
No discussion can ever be a substitute for reading this piece of classic literature for yourself. You will be enchanted with the writing style
This book is even more interesting when you read about Mary Shelly's life. You can see where she gets the inspiration from.
Wdym?
@@kevinchan4911 just watched the movie Mary Shelley, staring Elle Fanning in a moving performance, but even better, just finished the Audible version of The Truth and the Beauty by Andrew Klavan, which includes her story. My next listen- Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin Shelley's Frankenstein. I cannot wait to begin it, after listening to this video.
Don't forget, he didn't just say "nah, I'm not gonna make you a lady friend". He made her, and just before animating her, when the monster comes to check on his progress, he has 2nd thoughts... and rips her apart in front of the monster!
Yayyy! So glad you were able to get Gina on here! I like Frankenstein, too. Can’t wait for this episode! 😁
It’s FRAHNKensteen!
This is my all time favorite book
God Bless and Grace you all at Prager U for keeping the good stuff, good!! Keep seeking and speaking all that is golden and truth, Prager U!.🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
I have a problem with calling the unnamed person a monster; by all definitions I'm aware of, this is a human being who is truly a victim of the circumstances he was "born" into through no choice of his own. And even in those horrible circumstances, he tries to be kind and friendly with the family he watched for a while. Dr. Frankenstein himself is the true monster, cowardly running from his own creations rather than owning his mistakes and learning from his folly.
Never found the original version of Frankenstein to be horror myself, more of a story on the ills of untempered passion for knowledge. Knowledge alone leads to misery and compassion alone leads to sorrow, melding the two of them well leads to prosperity and joy.
Yes. It's more tragedy than horror.
That was not even vaguely the point
Literally the entire reason things in the book go sour is that people *fail* to be compassionate to the Creation. I do not understand how you could possibly take away "Unconditional Compassion... Bad." from this story.
The greatest irony of this marvelous story by Mary Shelley is that, out of his obsession with discovering how to create life, Dr. Frakenstein reaps nothing but death.
Elon Musk is afraid that Artificial Intelligence, in the wrong hands, will become the Frankenstein monster of our time. I believe that's a realistic fear.
it is a very realistc fear, scifi novels and movies have expressed that fear in many interesting ways
I heard him also say...fear of an all powerful AI overlord, and he reluctantly said...better to merge with AI than to be subjugated by it
@Ian Westby Elon doesn't scare me. Bad people with powerful weapons do scare me.
That's not Frankenstein, you're talking about Terminator. 🤖
Excellent book to cover. The Island of Doctor Moreau would also be very interesting.
One of my favorites. I love Shelley's use of Shakespearean dramatic language during the confrontations between Frankenstein and the monster.
It's Frank-en-steen!
😂
Good one! Best Movie! 🤣
I can fix that hump...
@@terrykrall What hump?
Is it...Fr-O-drick?
And the books the Monster reads are The Sorrows of Young Werther, Plutarch’s Lives and Paradise Lost. And he references Paradise Lost at every opportunity throughout the rest of the book
Can you do Crime and Punishment next?
Fyodor Dostoevsky would be rolling in his grave if a conservative or a socialist reviews his books, especially if both make everything extremely political about his books.
@Domagoj Čović Never said that. I just said he'll be rolling, as I made an assumption about him (since he didn't like defenders of capitalism neither did he like socialists) also I think his interpretation and his own words about his books trumps everyone else's, since he has a greater understanding of what he's writing. If you wish to expand on the idea while sticking to the subject that is perfectly okay. Yet all I said was having both people he doesn't like (as he literally stopped being friends with people with such beliefs or non beliefs) review his books to make it extremely political is disgusting and close minded. Especially if it's from a capitalist point of view (since capitalism with tsars is what made his people poor).
@Domagoj Čović A word of advice, proofread and edit your comments so they'll at least be comprehensible. We're talking about a man who brought a lot to the table of literature and here you are fumbling with writing a sentence and, with other comments you made, used ad hominems. Also I doubt your a real account anyway, due to you being 2 months old and making short, simple, and redpilled bot comments.
@Domagoj Čović Crime and Punishment talks about poverty and criminality, both being caused by a state and government. It is political, psychological, and philosophical. Most of Russia's greats works deal with philosophy and politics, yet people like conservatives and socialists tend to review these works for political purposes to support their side. It's pathetic. Also I highly doubt someone invited to PragerU to review a book would give a sound review due to the underlying agreements between channel and guest upon political beliefs. PragerU gives vague and easily digestible words and simple agreeable subjects to lure in people, because it eases the viewer and makes them hear out the ridiculous tirade of nonsense. It's propganda.
@@MiloTheCrotonian, what system did he want if he had a strong dislike for both capitalism and socialism?
Personally, I'd rather see something on The Brothers Karamazov than Crime and Punishment. Both are amazing, classic works, but I got a lot more out of The Brothers Karamazov.
Great review and discussion. Reading has been lost in younger generations, especially reading the classics. Thank you for the reading club, hopefully it will inspire people to read more.
Considering that Victor had just destroyed the bride he had built for the Monster breaking the promise he made to the Monster in so doing when the Monster told him “I shall be with thee on thy wedding night” it was pretty stupid of Victor to assume the Monster was seeking to kill him instead of Elizabeth
I read this book in high school taught me 2 things:
1. Science is good, but remember it has a dark side.
2. Any form of action (severe or minor), has consequences.
The #2 is somewhat similar to The Law of equivalent exchange from Full Metal Alchemist anime and manga series.
I think the creators of the Hulk took some inspiration from this book.
And Marvel’s Vision and Ultron at least the movie versions
Stan Lee actually stated that he was inspired by both the stories of Frankenstein and the curious case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, when he was creating the Hulk.
the fact that when we hear "Frankenstein" we then think of the monster is because Victor himself is a monster
Frankenstein is one of my favorite books. Shelley is actually one of my influencing authors for my writing style.
Great Great Book Club.
Never read it but will have to now.
TY
Many Blessings to All 🙏
It’s also worth noting that the University to which Victor goes is the University of Ingolstadt whose reputation is being the University where The Illuminati was founded.
"It's Franken-STEEN!" 😉
Wrong!!! The combination of letters Ein” in Stein (stone) is pronounced in German exactly like Michael Knowles does. And Frankenstein IS a German name.
You are making reference to the Mel Brooks movie “Young Frankenstein,” aren’t you?
@@dlee645 ayessssss.
Please talk about Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers sometime!
Yes. It anticipates future warfare and Iron Man's technology. It is also one of Robert A. Heinlein's thought experiments in societal structure. It eliminates Military conscription and attempts to link rights and responsibilities.
And also Dune and I forgot the name of that author. And now it inspired on a sci-fi film. 😁
A monster created a monster 💀
I haven't read this in ten years and this makes me want to reread.
You guys should do more book clubs with her
I think that’s the major difference between Walton and Victor which is that unlike Victor and the Monster Captain Walton knows when to stop
Ah, yes, the book that was inspired by long nights indoors while a volcano in Indonesia dictated the global weather, and which in turn inspired the invention of the pacemaker, the defibrillator and Hollywood.
Don't forget about organ donation
And a cholera outbreak in India from the ashes of said volcano!
@@somedandy7694 I refuse to blame a volcano for a disease that is almost 100% preventable by good hygiene and boiling your potable water--and also by not pooping and throwing your dead in it!
I think that considering the distinction between the words demon and dæmon, (as is mentioned in the book) is a very interesting angle to look at this book, with the former obviously representing an evil being while the latter meaning an inner voice of sorts.
Also (I don't know if you cover this later, I'm not through the whole video yet)the danger with creating a bride is that they would spawn a race of super-humans far better physically and mentally than us, more so than Cro-Magnon were to Neanderthal. And though the creature made a solemn promise, who's to say the offspring of their offspring would keep it? I once played with the idea for a series (would have made a great 90's era show, similar to Hercules or Xena) where tall, physically superior specimens arrive in various small towns and kill indiscriminately. Rogues who refuse to honor the promise of their progenitor. Perhaps the original creature himself arrives and fixes the problem sometimes, or his bride. Of course it's an alternate world from the story, where the good doctor did make a bride and accepted the promise.
I actually regard Captain Walton as a morally superior analogue of Victor Frankenstein since sure Walton wants to explore the world and discover new territory in an effort to try and amass glory but he still diverts his attention from his mission to try and save Victor when he was under compulsion to do so. And when Walton’s crew wants him to return to England for their safety he obliges since he recognizes that their a priority. And when Walton meets the Monster despite his visceral reaction to him he’s more concerned with the Monster’s misdeeds than anything else and can’t help but pity the Monster when he commits suicide
'Frankenstein' is NOT the 'first Science Fiction story', not even in Western culture. In the second century, Lucian of Samosata wrote a (rather strange and possibly satirical) story about a trip to the moon, where all kinds of strange beings and plants lived.
publicdomainreview.org/essay/lucians-trips-to-the-moon
I always thought the great tragedy was that Frankenstein and Walton must *learn* to value family over ambition. But family is all the Monster wanted in the first place and, through no fault of his own, can never get it.
What is little known about the novel is Mary Shelley wrote two versions: the original 1818 version and the more watered down, palatable version from 1831. The later version is what most readers are familiar with.
People are quick to point out that Frankenstein is the name of the doctor not the name of the monster. But Frankenstein WAS the name of the monster because the doctor was the real monster. I remember having a rather spirited debate with my then boyfriend when I was a teenager about whether the monster was actually the villain. I argued that when the creator breaks faith with his creation, the creation is no longer bound by the creator's moral law.
Don't know if anyone else has noted this, but Victor Frankenstein never completed his formal studies and is therefore not a 'Doctor'.
Having just finished teaching this novel for the 12th time, I wanted to point out one significant point about VF's reaction to his creature is that Shelley may be channeling feelings that often accompany post-partem depression, or the immense emotional response people often feel upon the completion of a project or creative endeavour that fails to live up to the vision and expectations of the creator. VF's rejection of the Creature is tragic, yes, but is the reasonable response to what was beyond reason and a violation of the natural order God put in place. His failure to take ownership of what he had done, to confess earlier, leads to a trail of blood and tears.
Great talk ! Thanks !
In that time, cousin-marriage was allowed but a bit scandalous, so between the 1818 edition & the 1831 one, Mary rewrote cousin Elizabeth into an adopted orphan.
I think that the ending of this video actually connects well to the early parts of Frankenstein when young Victor reads ancient works of science which are actually alchemy and ignores his father Alphonse when Alphonse dismisses it all but when lightning strikes and Alphonse can explain it scientifically Victor realizes that it’s all outdated and decides to learn modern science so he goes to Ingolstadt and meets Professor Waldman. And when Waldman asks what works of science Victor has read and they’re all by alchemists Waldman scoffs at the education of Victor and comments “Men no longer search for the Philosopher’s Stone and the Elixir of Life has proved a Chimera for we have moved past the shadows of the cave” and Victor agrees with Waldman’s assessment but once he learns modern science he uses it to pursue effectively the same goals as the alchemists did with the Elixir of Life the conquest of Death but in so doing he only causes more deaths as a result because Waldman was wrong and we haven’t moved past the shadows of the Cave.
Thank you for doing this! This discussion was really enjoyable and elevating; please do more!
I love Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein it’s an excellent book. I’m glad you made a video about it. It was highly enjoyable
This was great I hope you guys make more of these
I love picking up classics at thrift stores, though I’ve not gotten around to reading many of them. I got Frankenstein recently, and the cashier remarked how good it is.
This discussion and the comments section here has pushed it to the top of my pile.
Thanks y’all! 😊
I read this book years ago, I might reread it! It is an amazing first novel and the themes universal. The human condition continues through the ages.
Excellent analysis. An important point that wasn't mentioned is that Prometheus stole fire from the gods, and Victor stole "fire" from God, essentially.
If anyone wants to explore these themes in other forms of media, the films Prometheus and Alien Covenant have numerous references to Frankenstein and even Paradise Lost. Also, check out the graphic novel The Invisibles (the Shelley's and lord Byron are characters in it).
Thankyou!
My high school teacher made our class read this over ONE weekend (obviously I didn't do it) and I have refused to read this book out of spite ever since, but because of this talk, I might read it now
I read this book back in high school I enjoyed it then watching this I believe I need to read it again
I will read it Bc of her explanation. :)
Gina 😍
Great book. My son had to read this in high school and finished it quickly, so I of course took that opportunity to commandeer it and read it myself. Loved it.
“Thou art my Creator. My father. Thou callst me murderer yet Thou art worse than I for Thou wouldst kill thine own child”
We need to post none political enterntaiment content on bitchute youtube has so much power because it's has all views
Fun fact: the terrible stormy weather that led Mary Shelley and her friends to be cooped up in that mansion for a week (when she wrote the Frankenstein story) was caused by a volcanic eruption in southeast Asia....the eruption also caused a MAJOR cholera outbreak in India because the ash cloud made the water a PRIME breeding-ground for a particular strain of the disease.
Love the show, Thank you Mr. Knowles and Ms. bontempo.
"Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein is not the monster. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstien is the monster."
-Not my quote
I love the book club series that Michael Knowles does-they are fascinating.
My first introduction to this book was the kids TV show Wishbone. Read it when I was about 25. I agree with most of what was said in the video.
Read this one many a time. Brilliant novel.
I love Frankenstein. I’ve read it several times. One of my favorites
Mary Shelley was actually considered as a (first wave) feminist. How the time had made a huge chasm between the 1st to nowadays 3rd or 4th waves.
Michael let your guest talk and you should listen ana only ask a question that leads to your guest staying on topic, which in this interview your guest is far more capable than you are Knowels.
Thank you for sharing this interview and having your guest here for your subscribers.
Ciao
Shabbat Shalom
Shalom Aleicham
From
Slim Red Tex 🤠
So much of that period was put into fictional depictions of real life. Kafka is my favorite author from then.
Go check out Gina's podcast: "I'm Doing Great." So good!
I think it’s relevant to mention that the Monster starts off as a Noble Savage but ends up becoming a Savage Savage
summary: victor frankenstein was in a search for self glorification so he created a monster that would adore him and worship him. but of course, he is just a man, and does not have the power to create pure life. he creates a horrible and hideous monster. this is all a result of pride and a longing for glory. in the end, we see that man cannot and should not try to become like God and create life.
Such a good conversation guys, thanks.
By serendipity, I just read this book myself a few months ago. Seems like I'm the only one who saw the monster a truly "monstrous." A mass murderer! Everyone else seems to be sympathetic toward him.
Waiting for the guest who brings the Most Dangerous Game to the book club
Henry Clerval is also great at taking care of Victor during his delirium
And after Victor tells Captain Walton what happened Victor dies of pneumonia. Then the Monster shows up on the ship and laments his Creator’s death. When Walton confronts the Monster about his murders, the Monster appeals to his sad backstory quoting Shakespeare “Am I to be thought the one criminal when all mankind have sinned against me” but still acknowledges his guilt and decides to kill himself for his evil deeds. The Monster reveals he will take Victor’s body to the North Pole to burn it and will cast himself upon the funeral pyre.
“I will be with thee on thy wedding night”
I love these book club videos!
The world:
It’s about a man who makes a monster, Frankenstein is the inventor but also in the end the monster
The book:
“WOE IS ME, I AM A POOR SAP. FEEL MY PAIN, FOR I VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN AM A VICTIM OF MY OWN ACTIONS” *rosebud*
It’s also worth noting that Victor Frankenstein is partly an alchemist and partly a scientist. And in a way he is not really the transition from one to the other
Long ago, deep into my childhood, I read a graphic novel version of this story in Boy's Life magazine. It was BAD-ASS!
I like the story of Frankenstein, but I always got annoyed reading it because it was like Mary would find a random big word in the dictionary and had to incorporate it at least four times within two pages before she would find another big word to use.
Yes. For instance, the term "ignominy."
I, also, was not impressed with the writing itself. The value is in the ideas.
It was the 1800s. People talked differently back then. Personally, I love the prose.
closer to the heart
Michael, do you tell in advance which book you're reading next? I'd like to read aloing with you and your guests.
If you read E.TA. Hoffman’s The Sandman which was written a year before Frankenstein and on a similar subject matter then it’s actually much more horrifying a horror inasmuch as in it there’s the horror of the mind based on questioning reality itself the tragic hero has done far less than Victor to deserve the tortures he’s put through and the villainous Coppelius gets away scot free in the end. Whereas in Frankenstein, it’s hard not to blame Victor for most of what happened to him and in the end The Monster dies for what he’s done.
Thanks for making this video .
Two more points of interest with Mary. Her husband, Percy Bysshe Shelley, was among the earliest atheists. Her mother, Mary Wollstonecraft, was a women's rights advocate.
I think there is an important details wasnt mentioned in this book analisation.
Mary Shelley dedicated the book to her father, to Willam Godwin.
As we know he was the founding father of the anarchism just as her mother was also the first feminist writer. So I think Viktor Frankeinstein(or Prometheus) is the father himself.
Can you do Lord of the Rings?
Frankenstein is actually routinely accused of being an anti-science novel
a very good book and one that places very interesting questions
Well. Originally Victor agrees (albeit reluctantly) to create a female companion for the Monster, goes to England with the Monster to do the necessary research builds the bride for the Monster and plans to reanimate it but at the last minute reconsiders reanimating her and destroys her in front of the Monster which is what provokes the “I shall be with thee on thy wedding night”.
Love this show
Nice episode
Hey! We have a children’s reader book on Frankenstein that is perfect for children
Great illustrations too. And the classics are original. We also have the best retold classics.
Elizabeth was basically Victor’s parents’s ward though Victor’s father Alphonse Frankenstein refers to her as “your cousin”
Yes. The woman was married to a man similar to herself. They were both popular sci fi writers.
They inspired each other.
How do we find out what the next book is ahead of time so we can read along?
Frankenstein makes for a good review. You know what else would be a good review? The Satyricon!