Looking again at the ink usage of the P700 and Pro300 - Fotospeed | Paper for Fine Art & Photography
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In this weeks video Tim answers your comments from his video a few weeks back looking at which printer, the P700 or Pro300 uses more ink per prints.
Tim has run more tests and the results are interesting again!!
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![Checking out a printer not used for six months [Canon PRO-300]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J3NrYxnlDXg/mqdefault.jpg)
I own a Pro-300. And I'm thinking of switching to Epson. What I would be very interested in is the ink consumption for cleaning. For example if the printer is turned off for 14 days. Canon runs an ink mixing and cleaning cycle. And that costs a lot of ink. I only print black and white photos, but the color cartridges are depleting rapidly (all the same) which I believe is because of the cleaning and it makes printing significantly more expensive. I also find it incredibly irritating that if I run out of one colour cartridge the printer won't let me print anything. Not even a simple page of black text. I had a Pro-1 before and it would print even if it ran out of color.
It sounds like canon try all the way they can to use your link and make you buy more. Am I correct?
I m wondering to pick espon p708 or canon pro 300. The price is a huge different between these 2 model.
Canon will use slightly more ink on gloss paper since it has CO. However, the diff you see is coming from cleaning cycle once you put canon cartridges into printer. Canon runs automatic cleaning cycles and there is no way to change that. Epson on other hand does not do any clening until insructed by the user, which usually happens when there is clogged nozzle and you can spend tons of ink on cleaning it. Also in my view p900 is much better buy than p700. You pretty much have to buy new set of inks since initial set up uses almost all of the ink that comes with the printer. Once you factor in the cost of new set of inks, you are close in price to p900. P900 will be much cheaper in long run (GBP 45 for 80ml vs GBP 26 for 25ml) and can print 17 inch wide.
the correct answer is Canon Pro300 : 16g (10 prints) -5g ( 1 print)=11g (9 prints), so 11/9=1.22 g for 1 print. Cleaning ink = 5g-1.22 =3.88 g. Canon Pro 300 ink consumption/A3 = 1.22g and Epson P700 = 12g/10 prints=1.20g !
The 4g difference between the 10 prints is the same as the difference with just a single A3 print. I think you should try weighing the cartridges, put them back in, take them out WITHOUT having done any printing, and then weigh them again, then I think we have found the mystery around the 4 grams. I'm quite sure the 4g disappear during some cleaning or "getting ready" process. And NO, this video didn't put my mind at rest ;-)
I'm going to try this one next, it has to be the "getting ready" cycle using the 4ml. Tim
@@FotospeedUK this is clearly visible once your cartrages are close to being empty. Quite often it results in domino effect, you change the cartridge that is empty, but after that the other that was low on ink changes status to empty without any printing, you change that one and the other... That is a clear indication that Canon runs cleaning cycle once you install new cartridge.
The 4g difference is the Canon cleaning cycle
One suggestion would be to weigh the prints as well, although the accuracy may vary.
you can measure the paper before putting on the printer, that way it will be more precise
I'm going to try this next, may not be a full video but i will let you know what I find out. Tim
The Epson is always going to win as its a cold printer head, hence less cleaning cycles . the Cannon however is a thermal print head, hence inbuilt more cleaning cycles when switched off and then turned on again, a Week or so later. Also if you replace one ink cartridge on the Cannon because its low or running out then the printer does a complete cleaning cycle of all the ink cartridges acerbating the ink usage but there are ways to avoid this and only clean the ink cartrige channel one is changing.
I suppose it depends also on the volume and price of replacement for the cartridges on both printers.
Most know that the Epson is more economical.
I could agree more, think i'm going to leave this one now et back to paper. Tim
The bottom line is that the Canon runs more cleaning cycles as this is part of the self maintanance that the printer is designed to run, this is also more of a requirement of the thermal print head design on Canons (vs Epson which uses a non thermal design that they have patented). This is a big part of the reason why the Canon's use more ink. This becomes even more of an issue if you don't use the printer over longer periods.
I still think you just showed that the Cannon uses 4ml to do a purge cycle after re-inserting the ink cartridge. This removes any air that is added when the print head is exposed. (I would use the Pro-1000 to do the test, then you will be comparing two printers that have stationary ink cartridges.)
I think you are right, the Pro-1000 and P900 will be interesting though. Tim
@@FotospeedUKAre you still planning to do comparison between the pro1000 and P900? There are a lot of discussions online about the pro1000 ink consumption on purges/cleanings so it would be great to see your testing.
Thanks for the second video. Much more logical result. Would love to have the same test done but in standard mode. To see from 1.6g to how low we go by diminishing the quality to standard.
Very helpful videos. Currently researching for printer purchase and very glad to find your page!
Which printer Will y buy?
What is the cost difference per mil or gram of them both?
The cost per a ml for both is, Pro-300 £1.35 per ml and £1.00 for the P700. Tim
@@FotospeedUK Interesting - in the US from Amazon it's 93 cents for the pro-300 per ml and $1.52 per mil for the P700.
Weigh the 10 sheets of paper before and after the printing to see how much ink is actually deposited on the paper. Also drain a couple of cartridges and assess the densities of the inks.
I'm going to try this one next I think. Tim
It doesnt matter how much ink is on the paper, it matters how much you use in the printer, as it goes to the waste pad sometime.
Ink will dry up, then weight less
Great video! I havent still decided which printer I am going to buy.. 😊
Its a hard choice and normally go back and forward between the two makes. Tim
There will be differences because the printhead technologies are not the same. The fact that the Canons consume more than the Epsons does not seem illogical because the epson nozzles and droplets are smaller (1.5 pl vs 4pl) and when printing at maximum quality, the losses must also be lower.
I would also be curious to redo the test in standard quality and I'm pretty sure that the difference between the 2 would be reduced
Weighing paper 10 A3 sheets or 100 A4 sheets requires a tare and a tray to deposit them. In addition I also think that there will be differences between matte and glossy paper and that we complicate the problem rather than simplify it.
On the other hand, using several images would be more representative:
1 to avoid possible defects in the print head of each printer
2 the consumption would be an average consumption between all the colors (rather than red and black for example)
Weight the paper. Ink density differences will show in the dried material deposited.
Perhaps you can weight the paper instead if the cartridges ?
You forgot to mention whether this particular printer had the inbuilt Spectrophotometer?
I'd still be looking at a larger print run. e.g if I am doing a set of 5 individual images, as edition prints (edition of 10) I'll do the full 50 plus possibly 2 Artist proofs of each where I may be seeing if a certain paper works better or not for example, switching between both Matte and glossy/lustre finishes for example.
It's quite likely that the Canon is still using the 4ml of ink for performing the cleaning cycle. Some suspect it's only because the ink cartriges are removed to measure the weight. As a Pro-1000 user I suspect it is a built in function of the Canon and 4ml of ink are used EVERY TIME the printer performs a first print after either being turned off and on again or a longer pause.
It's interesting to see that Epson does not need this and will definitely influence my buying decision even though I am not overly thrilled by Epson's build quality.
I think you are right, I expect the Pro1000 and P900 to be closer. Tim
...love your videos - really great stuff and very helpful. A "big thank you" to you! I tried to download the free e-book "Art of Printing", but unfortunately I was not able to download it ;-(
.......it finally worked ;-)
Great to hear, if you are still having problem drop me an email at tim@fotospeed.com.
Is it possible the Canon is using the gloss enhancer extra layer even though the paper doesn’t need it? This could explain the difference
Hi Tim, great & interesting Pt 2 vid regarding inks, there's 2 more, things ive found out regarding ink carts, 1, its generally regarded that Epson & Canon are both guilty of Not providing Full ink carts when you buy a New printer? Would this effect the weighing of these ink carts your testing Tim? Secondly, ive noticed on both my Canon iP8750 & my Epson Expression XP-15000 printers that the first ink to start running out is the Grey ink, closely followed by the Yellow ink & not far behind the yellow is Magenta & Cyan! I have looked at the Grey ink 478XL for my Epson printer contains 11.2Mils on the packaging, not sure how many mils on the other 5 ink carts are probably the same? On the canon iP8750 the Full inks are just 7Mils per cart! no wonder they dont last long Tim, Thats why i think the only way to go if you want to save serious money is to invest in the exellent Epson ET 8550,( i will replace the XP-15000 for the ET8550 & the iP8750 with either the Canon Pro 200 or 300) but i understand those photographers who like to print with 8 or 10 inks for best possible colours & accurate tonal B&W prints.
Thanks for the time to do these videos So how many A3 prints per set
I printed a set of 10 prints on each printer. Tim
YES!!!
glad you liked it!
why don't also weight your 10 sheets of paper before print and then after prints just to see if there is also a small difference?
Y don’t you side by side let us see the picture? I may have missed it but???
If you still consider that after weighing the cartridges, the canon uses about 5g of ink to clean up while the Epson doesn't, then you have it.
=> On the canon side, you have16g-5g = 11g for actual printing while the Epson uses 12g.
You could then argue that Canon does slightly better than the Epson after all, provided that you only remove the cartridges once in normal usage.
How to verify that ?
Simple : make the same experiment but print 20 copies now. If both the averages are getting closer to each other, then it means it was all about that initial cleaning of the canon and the actual printing is using about the same amount of ink...
Thank you for your suggestions. it would point to the Canon doing a clean. I may come back to it and make a part 3 in future. Tim
cost is for mathematics and the inland revenue I am trying to bring my reality into a another reality basically hold it if you bothered about the cost you brought the wrong printer ffs can we talk more about paper because that's more important to me because I want to excite the imagination not worry about decimals
I'm not a pro so HMRC isn't a concern and I'm paying out of my income.
Quite right, normal service resumed this week. Tim
is there a source to purchase fotospeed paper here in the EU
Fine Art Imaging in German stock our papers the website is: www.fine-art-imaging.de/