I did my Masters at The University of Winchester, graduating in 2008. My subject was the development of the City as an important Army garrison from the 1820s through to the 1870s and a lot of my research centred on The King’s House. It is one of the great Lost Palaces of England. And a huge what might have been for Winchester had Charles II carried through his plans.
Had Charles lived and this palace had been completed, I think the whole shape of the country could have been very different. Living here would have emboldened the king.
Enjoyed your video. I live in the modern King's House, and from my windows I can see the cathedral upper windows and tower above the rooftops of the intervening buildings. It gives some idea of the view that King Charles II and Wren were hoping to create. When the 'new' (=Victorian) King's House was built, the army wanted to have their parade ground centrally placed, and so built closer to the western edge of the site, over the area where the prisoners were exercised. There is still a marker in Peninsula Square showing the position of the west (rear) wall of the original Wren building.
I am always happy to see your videos. I don’t live in this country but I do have ancestors and love finding out about that side of my family. You are a great source in teaching me the history of the past. A little thing I have started doing. I keep your magazine inside the envelope that it was mailed in. I protect the magazine, I think and hope. I read this magazine as soon as I get it. Later in the month I pick it up again to read and look up the name of towns you mention in it. Thank you for taking me back In time.
As a born Wintonian I found this absolutely fascinating. I have always known the splendid Peninsula Barracks building but not many details of its history, Winchester has so much history going on that anything as recent as Charles 2 seems almost too modern to notice so this was a bit of a revelation :) Thank you
I’m glad to have introduced you to something new. Had Charles survived, and this palace been completed, I think there was a very distinct possibility that Winchester might have become England’s capital again.
@@allanbarton Unlikely, London was significantly larger and more economically important, as well as being long established as the seat of parliament. I highly doubt parliament would leave Westminster just to be near the King's main residence, especially since the Civil War and the creation of a constitutional monarchy (unlike the French absolute monarchy at he time).
@@JohnyG29 We will never know. Despite the Interregnum, our constitutional monarchy only really began with the Glorious Revolution in 1688 in any meaningful sense. Charles was already beginning to rule without recourse to Parliament, as his father did. Parliament would not have moved, the organs of government (which were then entirely in the king's hands) would have moved with him, as they always did.
@@allanbarton Arguably since John's reign, none of the other monarchs before Charles II moved the capital to any of their numerous Royal Palaces spread throughout the country. No, London was always going to be the capital city by Charles II's time.
@@JohnyG29 there is no suggestion that Charles or any other king would move the capital. Even in John's time London was the capital, if that term has any real significance. You are getting confused I feel between Parliament and Government, which are two quite distinct things. In the Early Modern period, apart from during the interregnum, Parliament had no role in government. Parliament has been static in the Palace of Westminster since the reign of Edward VI - and was unlikely to move. Government was, of course, in the hands of the king himself, and functioned wherever he was, hence why the cabinet is called the cabinet - as it met in the king's inner sanctum. It is why Whitehall is the seat of government today, and not Westminster. It has been helpful in the past for kings, when government was directly in their hands (as it was up to the reign of George II when it became convenient to vest the day to day work in ministers) to move themselves and therefore government away from London and Parliament.
I never fail to learn from your episodes, Dr Barton. You consistently give what could be somewhat dry subjects an air of interest, without sacrificing detail and expertise. Quite a nice 'block of flats' nowadays (around £700k for a three-bed apartment)! Thank you so much.
Thank you for another absorbing video. I knew nothing at all about this - I wish Pepys had carried on with his diary to this point, he surely would have had plenty to say about it! And when one talks about the King wanting privacy, I'm remembering how often Pepys saw him at the theatre - it wouldn't happen nowadays.
Thank you, Allan. I'd no idea that this palace existed. It's good to know that it was eventually used even tho' Charles II never got to spend time there.
Thanks so much for uploading this fascinating video. I learned so much from it. 30 years ago, I worked as an archaeologist in Winchester at the time they were excavating the area on the High Street which later was the site for the Brookes shopping centre. At the time, our finds' processing unit was in the Barracks. I had no idea of its history until now.
Wonderful stuff - this is my period, and I hadn't a clue about this! Interesting sideline, perhaps: under Cromwell there were multiple proposals for using St James's Palace to house the poor or the sick... thanks for your excellent work! ❤
Thank you for this video Dr Barton! I studied at Winchester for both my undergraduate and masters, so know the place well! I’ll never forget walking through the site of the old palace, now the barracks, almost daily on my way into and out of the city. Great to revisit some of the memories for my masters degree too with the talk of the Catholic refugees! My final dissertation was on post-Reformation Catholic history in Winchester - a very interesting topic!
Ashamed to have to admit I've never heard of this building. To be honest, I'd always thought of Blenheim Palace as the 'English Versailles'. Thanks for the video.
Great history of Winchester and the connection with Charles II. The palace is also connected with the founding of Pennsylvania and Delaware as Charles borrowed large sums of money from Admiral William Penn which were repaid to his son William Penn in the form of a large land grant which became the states of Pennsylvania and Delaware. I am familiar with the 'country house' in Newmarket story which is an understatement to say the least. Audley End in Saffron Walden, owned by the 3rd Earl of Suffolk (4th creation) became the Royal Palace and was quite stupendous, putting just about every other palatial estate on the island to shame. What remains today is barely one-third of the palace that was returned to the possession of Baroness Griffin in 1701 in payment of the mortgage taken out by Charles on which no payments had been made.
Allan, when you mentioned the Napoleonic Wars, and this video being _(comme toujours)_ set in England, I immediately remembered reading that the English had built (or prepared) a house for Napoleon if he had succeeded in his invasion there. How gracious of them. I wonder if this house is still extant and if so, if you might consider making us a video about it? And thank you for this upload. As ever, I always learn so many new and interesting things everytime a new YT arrives for us on your channel.
Interesting detail at 15:39 about the local fireman abandoning the palace to save the Great Hall. I wonder if that points to it never being that popular? Or was it just the desire to save the older medieval building as Winchester is so steeped in the history of that time? I think the same actions would be taken now if the circumstances were the same and a choice had to be made. Even if the palace had been completed. A Versailles in Winchester, not feeling it TBH. Thank you for an interesting video about a slice of history that's not well known.
I agree, with this statement. I do find it ironic that Henry VIII destroyed the churches and monasteries. While Cromwell destroyed the Tudor palaces. We lost so much history at the hands of these two men.
Thank you for this detailed account. I was aware of this building from reading a biography of Wren, but it was only briefly mentioned. It would be great if you could do a video on the Wren wing of Windsor Castle.
I have always thought I knew what I wanted to learn about but once again you take me down a path that leads to a new interest. You now have me interested in architecture and where it was built, and is it still standing. Question- I have never been to Blenheim Palace but have seen documentaries on it. I see similarities in the drawings for Winchester Palace and Blenheim, do you know if that is accidental or if a student of Wren had anything to do with the building of Blenheim? Thank you Allan for your post
An interesting detail, but the boundary between the two counties once ran right down the middle of Newmarket high street, with the parish of St Mary in Suffolk, and All Saints in Cambridgeshire. The king’s house was in the parish of All Saints snd Cambridgeshire.
It is a wonder that could have been! I have always felt that Charles Il was cheated by fate. I feel this all the more upon learning of the King’s Castle.
This was such a missed opportunity. I find it strange that William and Mary decided to by pass Winchester and focus on Hampton court, I mean it was almost done. If they had left alone Hampton court, we would have a perfect example of a pure Tudor Palace. Not a hybrid and sometimes disjointed Tudor/English Baroque structure (still pretty). Winchester Palace I suspect if it had been completed would have been a cohesive Hampton court , probably 3x the size. A truly English Baroque Versailles. 😢
I wonder why Charles didn't just upgrade Hampton Court. It has always struck me as one of the more underrated of the various royal residences and it would have served well as a retreat for the King. I can only guess that Charles was infected with the same bug that swept Europe after Louis built Versailles and he felt he needed his own baroque monument to power and wealth. FWIW, having been to Versailles, you may color me unimpressed. If I were the King of France, I'd have dumped that tasteless pile of gilded foppery in a New York minute and moved the court back to the palace of Fontainebleau, which is magnificent.
Competition, yes. I haven't been to Versailles, but I'm not that impressed from what I see on the TV and photographs of it. I think its allure may be more about the French Monarchy than The Palace itself for some as well as just being a tourist attraction. I think this is true for a great deal of visitors to Buckingham Palace as well.
Bernini didn’t do any actual building work at the Louvre - he only drew up plans for its redevelopment that were rejected as too Italian. Indeed, Bernini’s Louvre would have looked ridiculous in Paris.
I love the history and ambition of this but not a fan of the architecture - looks too much of a reaction against the French model's decorativeness. Hampton Court is much better - Wren clearly learned his lesson.
I mean, putting up with the Christian Taliban whilst briefly a republic was probably both traumatic and had a strong rebound effect in terms of making people think that catering to the whims of a somewhat inbred manny with a fancy hat was what the Divine Being intended.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I did my Masters at The University of Winchester, graduating in 2008. My subject was the development of the City as an important Army garrison from the 1820s through to the 1870s and a lot of my research centred on The King’s House. It is one of the great Lost Palaces of England. And a huge what might have been for Winchester had Charles II carried through his plans.
Had Charles lived and this palace had been completed, I think the whole shape of the country could have been very different. Living here would have emboldened the king.
Enjoyed your video. I live in the modern King's House, and from my windows I can see the cathedral upper windows and tower above the rooftops of the intervening buildings. It gives some idea of the view that King Charles II and Wren were hoping to create. When the 'new' (=Victorian) King's House was built, the army wanted to have their parade ground centrally placed, and so built closer to the western edge of the site, over the area where the prisoners were exercised. There is still a marker in Peninsula Square showing the position of the west (rear) wall of the original Wren building.
I am always happy to see your videos. I don’t live in this country but I do have ancestors and love finding out about that side of my family. You are a great source in teaching me the history of the past. A little thing I have started doing. I keep your magazine inside the envelope that it was mailed in. I protect the magazine, I think and hope. I read this magazine as soon as I get it. Later in the month I pick it up again to read and look up the name of towns you mention in it. Thank you for taking me back In time.
As a born Wintonian I found this absolutely fascinating. I have always known the splendid Peninsula Barracks building but not many details of its history, Winchester has so much history going on that anything as recent as Charles 2 seems almost too modern to notice so this was a bit of a revelation :) Thank you
I’m glad to have introduced you to something new. Had Charles survived, and this palace been completed, I think there was a very distinct possibility that Winchester might have become England’s capital again.
@@allanbarton Unlikely, London was significantly larger and more economically important, as well as being long established as the seat of parliament. I highly doubt parliament would leave Westminster just to be near the King's main residence, especially since the Civil War and the creation of a constitutional monarchy (unlike the French absolute monarchy at he time).
@@JohnyG29 We will never know. Despite the Interregnum, our constitutional monarchy only really began with the Glorious Revolution in 1688 in any meaningful sense. Charles was already beginning to rule without recourse to Parliament, as his father did. Parliament would not have moved, the organs of government (which were then entirely in the king's hands) would have moved with him, as they always did.
@@allanbarton Arguably since John's reign, none of the other monarchs before Charles II moved the capital to any of their numerous Royal Palaces spread throughout the country. No, London was always going to be the capital city by Charles II's time.
@@JohnyG29 there is no suggestion that Charles or any other king would move the capital. Even in John's time London was the capital, if that term has any real significance. You are getting confused I feel between Parliament and Government, which are two quite distinct things. In the Early Modern period, apart from during the interregnum, Parliament had no role in government. Parliament has been static in the Palace of Westminster since the reign of Edward VI - and was unlikely to move. Government was, of course, in the hands of the king himself, and functioned wherever he was, hence why the cabinet is called the cabinet - as it met in the king's inner sanctum. It is why Whitehall is the seat of government today, and not Westminster. It has been helpful in the past for kings, when government was directly in their hands (as it was up to the reign of George II when it became convenient to vest the day to day work in ministers) to move themselves and therefore government away from London and Parliament.
I never fail to learn from your episodes, Dr Barton. You consistently give what could be somewhat dry subjects an air of interest, without sacrificing detail and expertise. Quite a nice 'block of flats' nowadays (around £700k for a three-bed apartment)! Thank you so much.
Thank you for another absorbing video. I knew nothing at all about this - I wish Pepys had carried on with his diary to this point, he surely would have had plenty to say about it! And when one talks about the King wanting privacy, I'm remembering how often Pepys saw him at the theatre - it wouldn't happen nowadays.
That was very interesting, you learn so much from this channel
the theme of kings seeking privacy is such a recurring occurrence
It is, it must be a nightmare existence being constantly on show. I wouldn’t trade my privacy and freedom for all the wealth in the world.
Great subject. So many great buildings lost.
Wonderful as always! ❤🎉😊🎉❤
Thank you, Allan. I'd no idea that this palace existed. It's good to know that it was eventually used even tho' Charles II never got to spend time there.
One of those what if moments in history. It’s fun to postulate what would have happened if….
Many castles look the same, from that era. They all glance at Versailles.
Thank you!
Always something new to learn from your channel. Thanks 👍
Thanks so much for uploading this fascinating video. I learned so much from it. 30 years ago, I worked as an archaeologist in Winchester at the time they were excavating the area on the High Street which later was the site for the Brookes shopping centre. At the time, our finds' processing unit was in the Barracks. I had no idea of its history until now.
'that the King might well *beheading* towards imposing an absolutist form of monarchy...'
Ah, now that is magnificent. 😀
Excellent episode l! Ty
Thank you so much for this fascinating story.
Christopher Wren was busy architect !
Thank you for a very interesting video - but
as a resident of Winchester, I am pleased it was never completed!
Fascinating! Thanks.
Wonderful stuff - this is my period, and I hadn't a clue about this! Interesting sideline, perhaps: under Cromwell there were multiple proposals for using St James's Palace to house the poor or the sick... thanks for your excellent work! ❤
Thank you for this video Dr Barton! I studied at Winchester for both my undergraduate and masters, so know the place well! I’ll never forget walking through the site of the old palace, now the barracks, almost daily on my way into and out of the city. Great to revisit some of the memories for my masters degree too with the talk of the Catholic refugees! My final dissertation was on post-Reformation Catholic history in Winchester - a very interesting topic!
Ashamed to have to admit I've never heard of this building. To be honest, I'd always thought of Blenheim Palace as the 'English Versailles'. Thanks for the video.
Fascinating as always, and as always this made me wish I could travel and visit these sites.
merci, you have done it once again...
magnifique... thanks for the video...
i have a suggestion ,
woodstock palace...
So very interesting. Thank you for your scholarship and excellent presentation.
Great history of Winchester and the connection with Charles II. The palace is also connected with the founding of Pennsylvania and Delaware as Charles borrowed large sums of money from Admiral William Penn which were repaid to his son William Penn in the form of a large land grant which became the states of Pennsylvania and Delaware. I am familiar with the 'country house' in Newmarket story which is an understatement to say the least. Audley End in Saffron Walden, owned by the 3rd Earl of Suffolk (4th creation) became the Royal Palace and was quite stupendous, putting just about every other palatial estate on the island to shame. What remains today is barely one-third of the palace that was returned to the possession of Baroness Griffin in 1701 in payment of the mortgage taken out by Charles on which no payments had been made.
Fabulous, one of your best.
This comes at an opportune moment, as I have just finished reading Maurice Ashley's 1971 biography of Charles II.
Fascinating!
Thank you Dr. Barton for this explanation. It was very interesting and educational. Martha
Allan, when you mentioned the Napoleonic Wars, and this video being _(comme toujours)_ set in England, I immediately remembered reading that the English had built (or prepared) a house for Napoleon if he had succeeded in his invasion there. How gracious of them. I wonder if this house is still extant and if so, if you might consider making us a video about it?
And thank you for this upload. As ever, I always learn so many new and interesting things everytime a new YT arrives for us on your channel.
Interesting detail at 15:39 about the local fireman abandoning the palace to save the Great Hall.
I wonder if that points to it never being that popular?
Or was it just the desire to save the older medieval building as Winchester is so steeped in the history of that time?
I think the same actions would be taken now if the circumstances were the same and a choice had to be made. Even if the palace had been completed.
A Versailles in Winchester, not feeling it TBH.
Thank you for an interesting video about a slice of history that's not well known.
Thanks 🎉
He had to have a new palace after his fathers killer destroyed all the Tudor palaces
That’s a fair point, there were few options.
I agree, with this statement. I do find it ironic that Henry VIII destroyed the churches and monasteries. While Cromwell destroyed the Tudor palaces. We lost so much history at the hands of these two men.
Thank you for this detailed account. I was aware of this building from reading a biography of Wren, but it was only briefly mentioned. It would be great if you could do a video on the Wren wing of Windsor Castle.
I have always thought I knew what I wanted to learn about but once again you take me down a path that leads to a new interest. You now have me interested in architecture and where it was built, and is it still standing.
Question- I have never been to Blenheim Palace but have seen documentaries on it. I see similarities in the drawings for Winchester Palace and Blenheim, do you know if that is accidental or if a student of Wren had anything to do with the building of Blenheim?
Thank you Allan for your post
Last time I was this early, Charles I still had his head! Just a joke. Cheers mate!
😂
@@raphgalban2007 my mother remembered living there in the early 1920s as my grandfather was in the army
I love this channel!
Glad you’re enjoying my videos!
Always watching
1:04 might be-heading! I like that.
😂😂
Newmarket itself is in Suffolk,a lot of the surrounding area where the gallops for the racehorses train are in Cambs.
An interesting detail, but the boundary between the two counties once ran right down the middle of Newmarket high street, with the parish of St Mary in Suffolk, and All Saints in Cambridgeshire. The king’s house was in the parish of All Saints snd Cambridgeshire.
It is a wonder that could have been! I have always felt that Charles Il was cheated by fate. I feel this all the more upon learning of the King’s Castle.
Imagine what a wonderful museum might be housed there if it had survived.
So sad they destroyed Winchester Castle basically for nothing.
It goes on to this day!
The whims of "modernity"
This was such a missed opportunity. I find it strange that William and Mary decided to by pass Winchester and focus on Hampton court, I mean it was almost done. If they had left alone Hampton court, we would have a perfect example of a pure Tudor Palace. Not a hybrid and sometimes disjointed Tudor/English Baroque structure (still pretty). Winchester Palace I suspect if it had been completed would have been a cohesive Hampton court , probably 3x the size. A truly English Baroque Versailles. 😢
All part of the story though.
I wonder why Charles didn't just upgrade Hampton Court. It has always struck me as one of the more underrated of the various royal residences and it would have served well as a retreat for the King. I can only guess that Charles was infected with the same bug that swept Europe after Louis built Versailles and he felt he needed his own baroque monument to power and wealth. FWIW, having been to Versailles, you may color me unimpressed. If I were the King of France, I'd have dumped that tasteless pile of gilded foppery in a New York minute and moved the court back to the palace of Fontainebleau, which is magnificent.
Competition, yes. I haven't been to Versailles, but I'm not that impressed from what I see on the TV and photographs of it. I think its allure may be more about the French Monarchy than The Palace itself for some as well as just being a tourist attraction. I think this is true for a great deal of visitors to Buckingham Palace as well.
The Ghost Palace.
I wouldn't say Whitehall is a fishbowl.
Bernini didn’t do any actual building work at the Louvre - he only drew up plans for its redevelopment that were rejected as too Italian. Indeed, Bernini’s Louvre would have looked ridiculous in Paris.
Shocking how much concern and money was lavished on the monarchy compared to bulk of the (peasant) population.
I love the history and ambition of this but not a fan of the architecture - looks too much of a reaction against the French model's decorativeness. Hampton Court is much better - Wren clearly learned his lesson.
Why would anybody restore a king, watch this obscene waste of money for him and then keep putting up with more of them?
I mean, putting up with the Christian Taliban whilst briefly a republic was probably both traumatic and had a strong rebound effect in terms of making people think that catering to the whims of a somewhat inbred manny with a fancy hat was what the Divine Being intended.
Why not go read about why? It is called The Restoration.
@@CrowSkeleton Puritan Taliban!