Those 1909 Mausers are still being shot today in the target ranges of our country, for us we have a nostalgic charge due to the level of quality that the equipment had in those years. They were our golden years. Greetings from Argentina, a faithful follower of the channel!
@@hanisk2 The times I have seen them in target ranges, there are few rounds, and the owners treat them better than their mothers. They don't shoot much. In addition to the care they are given, ammunition is expensive.
I am Argentine and I had never heard of this model. Thank you very much for this new knowledge. I always thought that the only sights of that time were the Nedinsco 4x (actually the Zeiss optics that could not be produced in post war Germany by the Treaty of Versailles). A curiosity of the manuals of the Argentine Army of the time, telescopic sights were not called telescopic sights but "alza óptica" wich translate like "optical rear sights" . Greetings (very emotional greetings) from Patagonia Argentina.
I have served nearly 40 years in the Argentine Army. Never saw or heard about this " French" scope , mount or modification, but the Zeiss scope, its mount and relevant rifle modification in later years is quite known. The Zeiss scopes were used in the Argentine 75 mm recoilless gun in the early 50's as the sniper techniques and tactics became somehow out of fashion. Ian Mc Callum has motivated me to search and dig the Army inventory archives.
Por lo menos existe hoy una carabina 1891 con la mira SOM montada, igual a la del video. Hace muchos años, el dueño quizo canjearlo en el museo de armas de la nación por un fusil con mira standart, no lateral, y dieron muchas vueltas. El museo no tiene una exhibida con esta mira. Es una lástima, no sabía que eran tan pocas las carabinas con este montaje y mira.
U - Hey Ian, wanna make a video about my argentine sniper? Ian - Why would I want to do that?! A dime a dozen mauser.. U - Its got a French scope.. Ian - You SOB, Im in. 😂
Making your snipers cavallery makes perfect sense for a country like argentine, especially if you remember the boer wars, which were only a few decades before.
That has got to be up there as on of the very best scope mounting solutions we've seen on this channel, solid, simple and looks repeatable. and doesn't require too much of the rifle. And in theory there is the French Connection.
@@gaminggamer9698 ya okay, that clears the action, but screwing into the barrel there..? I think the side of the receiver gives the best opportunity for fixing a mount. Also I don't know how common it was to project a far away-eyebox at the turn of the century. edit: I don't think being offset to the side makes a difference for a 3x scope, you're only gonna shoot at what, 3-400 meters. I was mostly impressed with the repeatability of the rail + bolt lock on this mount, arguably better than a picatinny, where you have to hold the crossbolt forward onto the rail while screwing it down.
I'm from Argentina and I adore this rifle, my dad used to have one until it was stolen... I'm planning to get one, as soon as I have enough money hahaha, luckily they are still available here I have to say that these scopes and this setup are very rare in Argentina... in fact, I have never seen one here.
@@-Zevin- The price will depend on many factors, many of these rifles are not in original condition and some were sported or changed caliber... But one in original condition can range from 800 to 1000 dollars. As for the laws, it is quite broad and I could spend hours talking about it haha so ask me what you want to know.
@@trigonome777 Interesting thanks, the rifle I just got is a 1909 in original condition very clean, all matching serial numbers, in-tact crest for $500, I'm surprised they go for more in Argentina itself. In some ways I think here in the USA they are underappreciated because all the collectors want a German K98k which will sell for $2,500 while being in many ways worse quality than the 1909. As far as the laws go, I'm just generally curious how difficult it is for a average citizen to get a gun. Is there expensive licensing involved? Are you allowed rifles only, no pistols?
@@-Zevin- na... the price ratio is not strange at all, even the Bersa pistols are cheaper there than here, it is due to tax issues in Argentina. And yes, the Kar98... you can imagine the price they are here if you find them. Regarding your question, the requirements to have a gun are the following: - Be 21 years old or older, be a resident of Argentina and be a legitimate user of firearms. To be a legitimate user of firearms you must obtain the credential (CLU), to do this you have to do the following: -Accredit a psychophysical examination by an authorized specialist (By the way, ANMAC is the entity that regulates firearms and explosives here) -Prove competence in the use of firearms, through an authorized instructor. - Demonstrate legal means of living, that is, prove that you have a blank job and pay taxes, this is simply done by showing a salary receipt or retirement receipt in case you are retired (there are thousands of ways to prove it even if you don't have a black job) - Have a certificate of clear criminal record (Although as of this year that will be handled by ANMAC itself) - A certified photocopy of your ID - And pay the stamp for the procedure at ANMAC, which is $5,000 Argentine pesos (currently equivalent to US$3.52 dollars) The procedure itself is not expensive or cumbersome, but what is expensive is usually what the psychiatrist and the shooting instructor will charge you, that will depend on each professional. What is cumbersome are the waiting times. These usually take two months or more, depending on... I don't know... the gravity of the earth haha. This credential lasts 5 years, then you have to renew it. Once you have your credential, you can buy your gun, but before taking it home you must do the possession procedures, each gun will have its possession card in your name and an ammunition consumption booklet (This booklet is for caliber, not for weapon and yes, it is a robbery, it costs 8,000 pesos). This possession card can take another 2 or 4 months or sometimes a week to 3 weeks if you pay extra (The price is 10,000 pesos and another 10,000 if you want it urgently). The possession card is permanent, it is not renewed. As for the weapons we can have, I will start with what we CANNOT have. -Automatic weapons (machine guns) are prohibited. - Piercing, armored, incendiary and poison ammunition are prohibited. Also the 50 BMG ammunition because it has an armored core. -Hollow point ammunition is only allowed for hunting and sporting use. - Starting in 1995, the Menem government imposed Decree 64/95. This restricts, but does not prohibit, semi-automatic long weapons (rifles and carbines, does not include shotguns) with detachable magazines, derived from a military platform, whose caliber is greater than 22Lr. Although they are not "prohibited," the truth is that practically no one is given an exception to this decree, so those who have these guns are counted on the fingers of one hand. Starting in 2003, semi-automatic pistols and revolvers whose power was greater than the 44 Remington magnum or that used rifle bullets were also added to the list. - We also have an ammunition stockpile limit, it cannot be greater than 1000 per caliber and 2500 maximum for 22LR and shotgun cartridges of any caliber. Except for this, we can have any rifle, carbine, shotgun, semi-automatic pistol or revolver that we want. We have no limits on the number of guns we can have, we have no limits on magazine capacities, nor limits on calibers (Except for those mentioned in the decree and the .50 BMG). Only firearms manufactured after 1870, ammunition reloading machines, gunpowder and ammunition are registerable controlled materials. Everything else, including magazines, is free sale, that is, you do not need permission to buy it or at least it is not required.
@@-Zevin-not the original dude but it is quite a hassle. You need a license which takes time and money and even then there's a bunch of rules regarding transportation and use of weapons. Also it is expensive because everything in Argentina is. Anyone who sells things here will go for the highest possible price and the issues with getting stuff from out of the country makes it so they don't have to fear being outcompeted.
Been hunting guanacos with a 1909 all my life. Great gun only downside is the 300m starting point for the slide. Havent been able to hit anything reliably at close range haha. Saludos desde Argentina
I have a 1909 Argentine Mouser rifle that I built a custom sniper rifle on. The 1909 Argentine Mauser action had a silver finish due to its high Nickel content. Great vid!
Was anyone even slightly surprised when he just pulled out a hundred year old French rifle to compare to the hundred year old Argentine rifle? as soon as he said the French adopted the same system I *knew* he'd have something to compare.
SOM-Berthiot are still in operation today under the SAGEM banner. I have a 90mm SOM Berthiot lens in 39mm Leica Thread Mount although they were better known for their cine camera lenses.
I'm argentinian and have a C mount 25 mm SOM lens, for some reason they where available as new old stock in our version of Amazon some years ago. Didn't knew they made scopes, hope they are more accurate than my lens, it has character but I wouldn't call it a precision optic
@@dnlvrl. my 90mm SOM Berthiot is not a great lens either. I took it apart and cleaned it with a marginal improvement. It came free on a Leicina Special Super 8 cine camera, using an LTM to Leica M adapter ring, so I cannot complain.
@@katywalker8322 SAGEM merged with SNECMA the aero engine maker to form a huge multi threaded combine now called SAFRAN concentrating mainly on Aeronautical products.
Love having argentinian guns on FW! Also the iconic Ballester-Rigaud was designed by a frenchman. And yes, my italian grandfathers fough for the germans. France 1944.
Schneider made tack sharp lenses. I thought we'd them in a few of my cameras, my enlarger, and earlier in both of my projectors (4x3 masked). The enlarger lens was the best I ever used.
Thanks for the video haha loving it, great pronunciation of our country name, really appreciate the times where we actually competed for the top world country in many relevant industries and not only on football...
It's amazing how people that made the SLR vision device ( see bloke on the range and 9 hole reviews) didn't think to research some of the older mounting device's
Watching this after Bloke and Henry's SUIT videos, it's mind boggling how bad the SUIT mount is when something this elegant was available 50-60 years earlier...
@@petrimakela5978 Yeah that would be nice to. Too bad most Engineers I know don't touch their own products with a ten foot pole. Though I wish they did. Make my job as a Master Electrician simpler.
@@clothar23 my ex engineering chief required that the designer always installs the first example of a component he has drawn. Kinks like crappy tool clearances usually disappear really fast
In "Across an Angry Sea" Cedric Delves relates how during the Falklands War they captured an Argentine officer who did not seem to grasp the situation that he was now a POW. Acting all high and mighty. In his possession they found a powerful hunting rifle with a massive scope. Only when they furthermore found Non-Geneva Convention hunting ammunition did it dawn on the officer from the now very angry looks directed at him, that he was a long way from home and entirely without friends.
Hola Ian, me has sorprendido con un arma y visor de mi país de la que ignoraba su existencia. Espero que algún día llegue a tus manos alguna SMG Halcón. Ojalá pudieras llevar esta carabina al campo de tiro.
@@treintaceroseis3081Y por eso vas a ponerlo a Ian a traducir lo que dice un Sudaca? Así sea solo hacer 1 click, no te costaba nada traducirlo vos mismo jajaja
I am Argentine, and an enthusiast of the Mauser rifles, and especially our 1909. It is the first time I see this sniper rifle model. It is impossible to find it in our country. Saludos desde Buenos Aires!!
Hi Ian, you have to take a chance and come to argentina to visit the Nation weapon's museum, where you can find a lot of interesting things. It is in Buenos Aires and, with the actual economical crisis you can travel with a few dollars.
That scope case is pretty sweet. I'm guessing it's worn on the belt. It would be a nice scene in a film to see a period piece where a soldier has spotted an enemy far in the distance, and without taking his eyes off his target, reaches down, unbuckles the case and pulls the scope out and mounts it on his rifle- all without looking or fumbling because he's obviously done it a thousand times before, and then puts the rifle to his shoulder and takes his shot.
I wonder if the barrel length thing was because of some “well that makes sense to me” thought with the higher ups like the thing with gas ports in the barrel for semi auto badly effecting accuracy or some such.
The 1891 carabine with the SOM side scope exist. Its true what you read. It perfectly fit, with the serial number of the gun on it. I can provide you a photo if you want, of a one that have it mounted at this days.
So good keep watching our rich history being explored by Ian. Influences and ideas from early Argentine history are way better explained via their tools. Hope to see more of it and more about Spanish Civil War.
That scope looks quite a bit like the pre-WW1 German Goertz scope. It and its very sporty QD claw mount popped up as the Patt. 18 scope package on the P-14 sniper, and, a couple of decades later, on the Australian SMLE-based sniper rigs. That means that four decades on, Oz was trying to use really rudimentary early-Edwardian era optics at the same time Britain had grudgingly graduated to the No32 and the Germans and Russians had developed several major "product improvements". This seems to be a perpetual issue in military and other procurement systems. Copy someone else's homework without any serious attempt to study the mechanism for possible "design" / material defects? The "exigencies of war" are understood, but sometimes it beggars belief. Maybe, in the case of the "sniping biz", it is because that field of endeavour has long been regarded as "ungentlemanly behaviour". See also the obsession with fitting bayonets to rifles that could almost out-range light artillery. The "spirit of the pike" eventually died, along with millions of young men, but it took a couple of World Wars to happen. The sub-machine gun / machine pistol took over as the "long-range bayonet" in mobile, combined-arms warfare. Australian small arms buffs will be aware that the SMLE-based, Pattern 18-equuipped sniper rigs were STILL on the books and being issued to ACTIVE service Battalions in 1972, at least. The "system" was also still issuing "updates for the maintenance documents up to that time.
Congrats!!!! Amazing channel. It would be great if you can make a video about FARA 83 (Argentine Assault Rifle 5.56 mm) and another video about FN FAP (Fusil Automatico Pesado 7.62 mm). Thanks a lot.
Hey Ian this is probably the wrong place to ask this, but i would love to see a video on the cetme ameli light machine gun. Thanks for your hard work and time!
-mix the tech and influence from 2 rivaling coutnries. -create a sniper rifle way ahead of its time. This gun is unironicaly an incredible argument for world peace.
A shorter barrel may not give the velocity of longer tubes, making long shots more difficult, but it is potentially more accurate and more consistent . There is less muzzle whip from barrel harmonics when compered to longer barrels of the same profile. This means the bullet is more likely to exit the bore at the same point in its movement each time the gun is fired. Assuming the shooter is competent for the job , it means the bullet strikes closer to the point of aim . Look at bench rest competition rifles ( machine rest rifles), they have super heavy barrels ,much larger in diameter than bull barrels, but they aren't often longer than 20 inches. For them success is measured in thousandths of an Inch . They are the most accurate and consistent guns that we have today. 😂 People talk about minute of angle, .5 moa, .3 moa, well a bench rest gun should give .001 moa if they are to be competitive. (As well as chambered in 6mm ppc)
I do think it’s a little weird to give cavalry a sniper rifle. Yeah they can get into position quickly but they are a massive target which can be seen while doing so. Plus once they are in position their horse will just be standing around behind them acting as a giant ref flag to alert enemy snipers that someone is there. It seems like any terrain which is obscured enough to make the horse less visible would necessarily be a terrain which is difficult to ride in.
A Scope offset to the left with no windage adjustment ? how is that gonna work ? i mean if the scope is zeroed at say 300m then shooting at a distance less than that means you have to aim to the left of your target and shooting at a distance greater than 300m means you would have to aim... right of your target. Dosen't sound like a good idea for a sniper scope to me... maybe the BDC also compensates the fixed angle of the offset ?
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Those 1909 Mausers are still being shot today in the target ranges of our country, for us we have a nostalgic charge due to the level of quality that the equipment had in those years. They were our golden years. Greetings from Argentina, a faithful follower of the channel!
They better not still be being shot. They're relics..
@@hanisk2 The times I have seen them in target ranges, there are few rounds, and the owners treat them better than their mothers. They don't shoot much. In addition to the care they are given, ammunition is expensive.
what was the caliber of these rifles?
@@ciro79 7,65x54 Argentino
@@hanisk2 You don't have to worry, are very resistant rifles, it will probably be whole longer than our country will be hahaha
I am Argentine and I had never heard of this model. Thank you very much for this new knowledge. I always thought that the only sights of that time were the Nedinsco 4x (actually the Zeiss optics that could not be produced in post war Germany by the Treaty of Versailles). A curiosity of the manuals of the Argentine Army of the time, telescopic sights were not called telescopic sights but "alza óptica" wich translate like "optical rear sights" . Greetings (very emotional greetings) from Patagonia Argentina.
Thanks!!!@@gorbalsboy
I have served nearly 40 years in the Argentine Army. Never saw or heard about this " French" scope , mount or modification, but the Zeiss scope, its mount and relevant rifle modification in later years is quite known. The Zeiss scopes were used in the Argentine 75 mm recoilless gun in the early 50's as the sniper techniques and tactics became somehow out of fashion. Ian Mc Callum has motivated me to search and dig the Army inventory archives.
Tas viejo pa, conta de paso a quien votaste para presidente (?
Por lo menos existe hoy una carabina 1891 con la mira SOM montada, igual a la del video. Hace muchos años, el dueño quizo canjearlo en el museo de armas de la nación por un fusil con mira standart, no lateral, y dieron muchas vueltas. El museo no tiene una exhibida con esta mira. Es una lástima, no sabía que eran tan pocas las carabinas con este montaje y mira.
Ian: why should I make a video of this rifle?
“The scope is sorta French?”
Ian: Deal.
i was looking for a joke to make about this and u did it.
well done.
U - Hey Ian, wanna make a video about my argentine sniper?
Ian - Why would I want to do that?! A dime a dozen mauser..
U - Its got a French scope..
Ian - You SOB, Im in.
😂
Making your snipers cavallery makes perfect sense for a country like argentine, especially if you remember the boer wars, which were only a few decades before.
Sniper Dragoons is not something that I ever considered, but I like it.
That has got to be up there as on of the very best scope mounting solutions we've seen on this channel, solid, simple and looks repeatable. and doesn't require too much of the rifle.
And in theory there is the French Connection.
Yeah but it's off center tho which is like, not optimal
@@gaminggamer9698 it's close to the bore, how else would you do it? It's not a thousand meter-system anyway. 🙂
@@davidh5903 I'd mount it on top in the middle
@@gaminggamer9698 ya okay, that clears the action, but screwing into the barrel there..? I think the side of the receiver gives the best opportunity for fixing a mount. Also I don't know how common it was to project a far away-eyebox at the turn of the century.
edit: I don't think being offset to the side makes a difference for a 3x scope, you're only gonna shoot at what, 3-400 meters. I was mostly impressed with the repeatability of the rail + bolt lock on this mount, arguably better than a picatinny, where you have to hold the crossbolt forward onto the rail while screwing it down.
@@davidh5903 I meant kinda like how the Mosin does it, and when I said middle (probably bad wording) I meant in the center above the action
The fact that it is a complete matching set is wonderful!
I'm from Argentina and I adore this rifle, my dad used to have one until it was stolen...
I'm planning to get one, as soon as I have enough money hahaha, luckily they are still available here
I have to say that these scopes and this setup are very rare in Argentina... in fact, I have never seen one here.
I just got a Argentine 1909 here in the USA, I'm curious what do they cost in Argentina, and what are gun laws like there?
@@-Zevin- The price will depend on many factors, many of these rifles are not in original condition and some were sported or changed caliber... But one in original condition can range from 800 to 1000 dollars.
As for the laws, it is quite broad and I could spend hours talking about it haha so ask me what you want to know.
@@trigonome777 Interesting thanks, the rifle I just got is a 1909 in original condition very clean, all matching serial numbers, in-tact crest for $500, I'm surprised they go for more in Argentina itself. In some ways I think here in the USA they are underappreciated because all the collectors want a German K98k which will sell for $2,500 while being in many ways worse quality than the 1909.
As far as the laws go, I'm just generally curious how difficult it is for a average citizen to get a gun. Is there expensive licensing involved? Are you allowed rifles only, no pistols?
@@-Zevin- na... the price ratio is not strange at all, even the Bersa pistols are cheaper there than here, it is due to tax issues in Argentina. And yes, the Kar98... you can imagine the price they are here if you find them.
Regarding your question, the requirements to have a gun are the following:
- Be 21 years old or older, be a resident of Argentina and be a legitimate user of firearms.
To be a legitimate user of firearms you must obtain the credential (CLU), to do this you have to do the following:
-Accredit a psychophysical examination by an authorized specialist (By the way, ANMAC is the entity that regulates firearms and explosives here)
-Prove competence in the use of firearms, through an authorized instructor.
- Demonstrate legal means of living, that is, prove that you have a blank job and pay taxes, this is simply done by showing a salary receipt or retirement receipt in case you are retired (there are thousands of ways to prove it even if you don't have a black job)
- Have a certificate of clear criminal record (Although as of this year that will be handled by ANMAC itself)
- A certified photocopy of your ID
- And pay the stamp for the procedure at ANMAC, which is $5,000 Argentine pesos (currently equivalent to US$3.52 dollars)
The procedure itself is not expensive or cumbersome, but what is expensive is usually what the psychiatrist and the shooting instructor will charge you, that will depend on each professional. What is cumbersome are the waiting times. These usually take two months or more, depending on... I don't know... the gravity of the earth haha. This credential lasts 5 years, then you have to renew it.
Once you have your credential, you can buy your gun, but before taking it home you must do the possession procedures, each gun will have its possession card in your name and an ammunition consumption booklet (This booklet is for caliber, not for weapon and yes, it is a robbery, it costs 8,000 pesos). This possession card can take another 2 or 4 months or sometimes a week to 3 weeks if you pay extra (The price is 10,000 pesos and another 10,000 if you want it urgently). The possession card is permanent, it is not renewed.
As for the weapons we can have, I will start with what we CANNOT have.
-Automatic weapons (machine guns) are prohibited.
- Piercing, armored, incendiary and poison ammunition are prohibited. Also the 50 BMG ammunition because it has an armored core.
-Hollow point ammunition is only allowed for hunting and sporting use.
- Starting in 1995, the Menem government imposed Decree 64/95. This restricts, but does not prohibit, semi-automatic long weapons (rifles and carbines, does not include shotguns) with detachable magazines, derived from a military platform, whose caliber is greater than 22Lr.
Although they are not "prohibited," the truth is that practically no one is given an exception to this decree, so those who have these guns are counted on the fingers of one hand.
Starting in 2003, semi-automatic pistols and revolvers whose power was greater than the 44 Remington magnum or that used rifle bullets were also added to the list.
- We also have an ammunition stockpile limit, it cannot be greater than 1000 per caliber and 2500 maximum for 22LR and shotgun cartridges of any caliber.
Except for this, we can have any rifle, carbine, shotgun, semi-automatic pistol or revolver that we want. We have no limits on the number of guns we can have, we have no limits on magazine capacities, nor limits on calibers (Except for those mentioned in the decree and the .50 BMG).
Only firearms manufactured after 1870, ammunition reloading machines, gunpowder and ammunition are registerable controlled materials. Everything else, including magazines, is free sale, that is, you do not need permission to buy it or at least it is not required.
@@-Zevin-not the original dude but it is quite a hassle. You need a license which takes time and money and even then there's a bunch of rules regarding transportation and use of weapons.
Also it is expensive because everything in Argentina is. Anyone who sells things here will go for the highest possible price and the issues with getting stuff from out of the country makes it so they don't have to fear being outcompeted.
Been hunting guanacos with a 1909 all my life. Great gun only downside is the 300m starting point for the slide. Havent been able to hit anything reliably at close range haha. Saludos desde Argentina
I have a 1909 Argentine Mouser rifle that I built a custom sniper rifle on. The 1909 Argentine Mauser action had a silver finish due to its high Nickel content. Great vid!
wasn't expecting an argentinian gun today, great video 🇦🇷
"Hey Ian do you want to come review an argentinian bolt action rifle"
"Hmmm I don't think so"
"It's 'slightly french' "
"You son of a bitch I'm in"
Your pronuntiation of "República Argentina"
*cheff's kiss*
A rare find indeed!! I'll bet the scope case serialized to the scope is the rarest part of the set! Thanks for sharing this with us you're the best!!
Was anyone even slightly surprised when he just pulled out a hundred year old French rifle to compare to the hundred year old Argentine rifle? as soon as he said the French adopted the same system I *knew* he'd have something to compare.
Definitely an interesting and unique optics mount for the period.
SOM-Berthiot are still in operation today under the SAGEM banner. I have a 90mm SOM Berthiot lens in 39mm Leica Thread Mount although they were better known for their cine camera lenses.
They also made a lot of lens for Semflex (or SEM) 6x6 TLR cameras.
I'm argentinian and have a C mount 25 mm SOM lens, for some reason they where available as new old stock in our version of Amazon some years ago. Didn't knew they made scopes, hope they are more accurate than my lens, it has character but I wouldn't call it a precision optic
@@dnlvrl. my 90mm SOM Berthiot is not a great lens either. I took it apart and cleaned it with a marginal improvement. It came free on a Leicina Special Super 8 cine camera, using an LTM to Leica M adapter ring, so I cannot complain.
Same company who makes fuel injection parts?
@@katywalker8322 SAGEM merged with SNECMA the aero engine maker to form a huge multi threaded combine now called SAFRAN concentrating mainly on Aeronautical products.
"I think it makes sense, which is odd", absolutely savage and I am here for it
Love having argentinian guns on FW! Also the iconic Ballester-Rigaud was designed by a frenchman. And yes, my italian grandfathers fough for the germans. France 1944.
Schneider made tack sharp lenses. I thought we'd them in a few of my cameras, my enlarger, and earlier in both of my projectors (4x3 masked).
The enlarger lens was the best I ever used.
And people think QD Scope mounts are a new thing. It would be interesting to do an episode on the history of QD scopes and other attachments....
Was very important for storage and travel
Your pronounciation of "Republica Argentina" is flawless.
The scope mount is pretty slick kinda surprised it wasn't used more
It's really awesome to see Ian with a Mauser from Argentina. Thanks a lot for reviewing this one.
Only Ian can find the most oddball, obscure guns I never knew I needed to know about.
Great video! We don't often hear much about sniper rifles outside of the Great Powers in this era. I also find this type of info fascinating.
Its more of a .311-312 cartridge, perhaps the best of all Mauser millitary cartridges .
I have a model 1909 Cavalry carbine like that...always wondered how they could have mounted a scope. Great video!
Thanks for the video haha loving it, great pronunciation of our country name, really appreciate the times where we actually competed for the top world country in many relevant industries and not only on football...
That is a beautiful firearm! It has a very attractive look to it and i bet it shoot extremely well.
Thanks for reviewing a piece of history from my country! Best wishes from Argentina Ian!
Even slightly French
You know Ian Wants it
Thanks. Great history -- I see you have fans in Argentina!! Bravo!
It's amazing how people that made the SLR vision device ( see bloke on the range and 9 hole reviews) didn't think to research some of the older mounting device's
Watching this after Bloke and Henry's SUIT videos, it's mind boggling how bad the SUIT mount is when something this elegant was available 50-60 years earlier...
Engineers in my opinion should always be advised by their end users. The best products always result that way.
@@clothar23 or when the engineer is also an end user
@@petrimakela5978 Yeah that would be nice to. Too bad most Engineers I know don't touch their own products with a ten foot pole.
Though I wish they did. Make my job as a Master Electrician simpler.
@@clothar23 my ex engineering chief required that the designer always installs the first example of a component he has drawn. Kinks like crappy tool clearances usually disappear really fast
Ian, you Really need to see a Ballester-Rigaud carbine and its magazine. Greetings from Argentina!
Thank you!, please make more videos about Argentinian weapons! :D
That's an absolute piece of a kit.
Thanks for sharing, Ian.
Cheers.
my dad used to told me that they used scoped m1909 mausers in the malvinas conflict
Having Ian taking a look at a rifle used here is awesome
A carbine with a scope. Years ahead of their time.
In "Across an Angry Sea" Cedric Delves relates how during the Falklands War they captured an Argentine officer who did not seem to grasp the situation that he was now a POW. Acting all high and mighty. In his possession they found a powerful hunting rifle with a massive scope. Only when they furthermore found Non-Geneva Convention hunting ammunition did it dawn on the officer from the now very angry looks directed at him, that he was a long way from home and entirely without friends.
Thanks for sharing that very interesting 👍
Hola Ian, me has sorprendido con un arma y visor de mi país de la que ignoraba su existencia. Espero que algún día llegue a tus manos alguna SMG Halcón.
Ojalá pudieras llevar esta carabina al campo de tiro.
No te entiende, pavo.
@@Tomemos1Jager Para eso esta el traductor...
Nabo
@@Tomemos1Jager Javeeeee... Yo también quiero ver el 1909 SOM en el polígono, jajaja!!!
@@treintaceroseis3081Y por eso vas a ponerlo a Ian a traducir lo que dice un Sudaca? Así sea solo hacer 1 click, no te costaba nada traducirlo vos mismo jajaja
You are the one I'm searching for!! Long live,May God Bless you❤🎉
"slightly french" is very much enough to peak Ian's attention it seems
I am Argentine, and an enthusiast of the Mauser rifles, and especially our 1909. It is the first time I see this sniper rifle model. It is impossible to find it in our country. Saludos desde Buenos Aires!!
Ian PSA is using Steel that was mined in france , might wanna check out their stuff too
Excellent video. I've never saw one of these sniper carbines in my country. I ignore the sniper 1909 cavalry sniper carbines.
Muchaaaaachossssss
El Jesus de los Fierros hablando de nuestros caños, una vez mas
@@Cynical_Hypocrite un verdadero orgullo de mejores épocas de nuestro querido país.
Haha when I saw the big knurled knob I thought that looks like a terrible idea as somebody will strip the threads. But that’s actually really clever
Very interesting, I've never heard of this model. I enjoyed eating breakfast to this. I never knew why the bolt handle was bent, thanks.
I suspect the longer barrel isn't heavy enough to be that long. The barrel harmonics and bedding are likely better with the shorter barrel.
Hi Ian, you have to take a chance and come to argentina to visit the Nation weapon's museum, where you can find a lot of interesting things. It is in Buenos Aires and, with the actual economical crisis you can travel with a few dollars.
As soon as he looks at all the French stuff in the musem, one thing's for sure. He's not leaving the place.
That scope case is pretty sweet. I'm guessing it's worn on the belt. It would be a nice scene in a film to see a period piece where a soldier has spotted an enemy far in the distance, and without taking his eyes off his target, reaches down, unbuckles the case and pulls the scope out and mounts it on his rifle- all without looking or fumbling because he's obviously done it a thousand times before, and then puts the rifle to his shoulder and takes his shot.
Smart scope mount,never saw this one before.Thanks for the video
Cool mounting solution. Nice machining
It appears to be very well thought out.
Thank you as always Ian.
Gracias por mostrar el video . saludos desde Argentina
ALWAYS wanted a 1909 Argentine Carbine.
I wonder if the barrel length thing was because of some “well that makes sense to me” thought with the higher ups like the thing with gas ports in the barrel for semi auto badly effecting accuracy or some such.
Thanks, Ian. Fantastic, as usual.
You should check out the firearms museum in Buenos Aires someday Ian, it is quite wonderful.
I would invite him and let him loose in there. I bet he will have a wonderful time. Like a kid in a candy store.
Argentina? Click inmediato
Same.
Somos varios (We are many).
MUCHAAACHOOOOOS
@@asdf6297 AHORA NOS VOLVIMO A ILUSIONAR…
Very rare combination of rifle and scope, a 1891 scope in a 1909 carbine 🤯
Nope ...its a 1913 Scope
amazing weapon and era, Salute!
One is listed for sale on GB now. No SOM scope, but mount is there.
I really like that mounting system.
The 1891 carabine with the SOM side scope exist. Its true what you read. It perfectly fit, with the serial number of the gun on it. I can provide you a photo if you want, of a one that have it mounted at this days.
Ian correcting the manuals 👌
So good keep watching our rich history being explored by Ian. Influences and ideas from early Argentine history are way better explained via their tools. Hope to see more of it and more about Spanish Civil War.
The scope has our national shield too.
Love the research, interesting.
That scope looks quite a bit like the pre-WW1 German Goertz scope. It and its very sporty QD claw mount popped up as the Patt. 18 scope package on the P-14 sniper, and, a couple of decades later, on the Australian SMLE-based sniper rigs.
That means that four decades on, Oz was trying to use really rudimentary early-Edwardian era optics at the same time Britain had grudgingly graduated to the No32 and the Germans and Russians had developed several major "product improvements".
This seems to be a perpetual issue in military and other procurement systems.
Copy someone else's homework without any serious attempt to study the mechanism for possible "design" / material defects? The "exigencies of war" are understood, but sometimes it beggars belief.
Maybe, in the case of the "sniping biz", it is because that field of endeavour has long been regarded as "ungentlemanly behaviour". See also the obsession with fitting bayonets to rifles that could almost out-range light artillery. The "spirit of the pike" eventually died, along with millions of young men, but it took a couple of World Wars to happen. The sub-machine gun / machine pistol took over as the "long-range bayonet" in mobile, combined-arms warfare.
Australian small arms buffs will be aware that the SMLE-based, Pattern 18-equuipped sniper rigs were STILL on the books and being issued to ACTIVE service Battalions in 1972, at least. The "system" was also still issuing "updates for the maintenance documents up to that time.
Even in Argentina they are hard to find....
Outstanding video...
Interesting stuff. Berthiot photographic lenses, particualrly their movie camera lenses, are much sought-after and command high prices today.
Thank you , Ian .
🐺 Loupis Canis .
Wonderful history, as always. Thanks, Ian
So you are telling me that Argentina used that scope mount first, and France in second place?🤔
Muchaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaachoooooooooooooooooooooooooooos
Some might say, Argentina campeón y segundo Francia.
Congrats!!!! Amazing channel. It would be great if you can make a video about FARA 83 (Argentine Assault Rifle 5.56 mm) and another video about FN FAP (Fusil Automatico Pesado 7.62 mm). Thanks a lot.
Hey Ian this is probably the wrong place to ask this, but i would love to see a video on the cetme ameli light machine gun. Thanks for your hard work and time!
It's scheduled to post in two weeks. :)
The Argentinians have always had decent weaponry, I wonder how that is. German veterans perhaps, I think so.
-mix the tech and influence from 2 rivaling coutnries.
-create a sniper rifle way ahead of its time.
This gun is unironicaly an incredible argument for world peace.
Most people already want peace, it's just not that simple.
@AdamantLightLP I think you underestimate the amount of psychopaths in the world and what people do for power and money.
That looks like a very handy little rifle. I need one
QD still solid as can be over a century later. Pay heed modern manufacturers.
Me sorprende ver el escudo nacional intacto. Tenía entendido que se lo borraba cuando se vendía
ARGENTINA! ARGENTINA! ARGENTINA! 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
One looks at that simple yet entirely functional French mount and then compares it with the SUIT mount that nearly gave the Bloke a black eye...
Hopefully someday more come into the market
Great video!!!
A shorter barrel may not give the velocity of longer tubes, making long shots more difficult, but it is potentially more accurate and more consistent . There is less muzzle whip from barrel harmonics when compered to longer barrels of the same profile. This means the bullet is more likely to exit the bore at the same point in its movement each time the gun is fired. Assuming the shooter is competent for the job , it means the bullet strikes closer to the point of aim . Look at bench rest competition rifles ( machine rest rifles), they have super heavy barrels ,much larger in diameter than bull barrels, but they aren't often longer than 20 inches. For them success is measured in thousandths of an Inch . They are the most accurate and consistent guns that we have today. 😂 People talk about minute of angle, .5 moa, .3 moa, well a bench rest gun should give .001 moa if they are to be competitive. (As well as chambered in 6mm ppc)
I have a 1909, bit it isn’t that sniper variant. It is a beautiful rifle.
Some would call this a Sightly French Model
I do think it’s a little weird to give cavalry a sniper rifle. Yeah they can get into position quickly but they are a massive target which can be seen while doing so. Plus once they are in position their horse will just be standing around behind them acting as a giant ref flag to alert enemy snipers that someone is there. It seems like any terrain which is obscured enough to make the horse less visible would necessarily be a terrain which is difficult to ride in.
Most country is not dead-flat. You park your horses in a draw or the like, and crawl up to the top of it and fire from there, and so on.
How does the scope offset affect a left handed shooter?
They learn to shoot Right handed just like they learned to do everything else.
Would a shorter barrel not give more of a sound and light signature? I suppose that would be downside to some sipers?
A Scope offset to the left with no windage adjustment ? how is that gonna work ? i mean if the scope is zeroed at say 300m then shooting at a distance less than that means you have to aim to the left of your target and shooting at a distance greater than 300m means you would have to aim... right of your target. Dosen't sound like a good idea for a sniper scope to me... maybe the BDC also compensates the fixed angle of the offset ?
Remarkable and efficient mounting for the period.
Seen a scope like that bit smaller brass but tube.