New tech here and I’m telling you Mr Ted I’ve learned more stuff from the old techs than I did in school this is a great example. I very much appreciate you for sharing all you’re knowledge with us thank you sr.
Your always gonna learn more in the field then stop school. Senior techs will know more tricks of the trade cause we been around (27 years here) awhile! But trust me we still don’t know everything!!!
Used to work with my dad in the 90's and early 2000's. Watching this service call reminded me of how easy it was to diagnose a unit with R-22. Thank you for taking me back down memory lane sir.
I've always looked for high side fluctuations on guages to determine noncondensables, but this way is a first for me. You learn something new every day.
Another way to identify noncondensables, requires that you know what type of refrigerant is in the equipment. Then you only run the condenser fan motor to insure that the refrigerant inside the condenser coil is at ambient temperature. Now get out your chart and see if the pressure is what is expected at that temperature. If so all is good if not you have noncondensibles.
The condenser whisperer: "A bad man fed you a bunch of junk and now you're sick, Let's get you all better"😁 Hope no one got hurt when that strap broke,
Interesting call Ted. I still like the ease of the simple old R22 systems, but I have no use for new phony refrigerants. It was good to see the difference with a proper load of R22 in that system.
Not a thing wrong with the old simple ways on an old unit like this. Sometimes all the data and fancy tools can slow you down. It's all about your experience and judging when to break those out or not. Id say you nailed it here. I say this as a huge tool and tech nerd too.
I get ur point but 10 degrees across a coil wouldn't bother me 55 suction 300 head pressure a problem ,so something wrong, to be fair I'd b inclined to think blockage somewhere, but he fixed straight away so as long as customer happy (although R22 banned everywhere else in the world due to global warming) he sorted problem (would like to see a call back visit 6--8 weeks later) to see if problem solved
Hi Ted I just found you and love your videos , I’m a fridge mechanic of 40years and I am still learning every day, thanks for sharing your experience, the young technicians certainly need to watch and learn from someone like yourself, regards Rob Australia
Spot on, the second tool I use on a service call is my hand waving all around the discharge the first tool is my ears listening for a load on the compressor. It's not old school it's "The best School". Good job!
Started out using 407c around 2013 then later was using NU22 and now I use rs44. Ive been happy with results for 10 years. I just dont see a reason to put in very expensive R22 in a 20 year old unit that might have a small leak if i can use cheaper replacments. I dont blame Ted for not wanting to use it. I wanted to see the sub-cool and super heat :(
I have been using 407C/etc for while now in a commercial setting. RTUs etc. Works fine for us. Non condensables is freaking air. This guy a little extra on this....
407 is not compatible with the mineral oil in r22 systems. I have used mo99 with satisfactory results. I do only use that as a band aid though, and typically recommend system replacement on any r22 system because most I come across are in poor condition anyway.
You dont use mineral oil in r22.. use poe.. but that said its technically illegal to put r22 in any system now. Aint supposed to use it at all. So if you put the direct replacement. 407c or whatever itll work fine until the unit burns out from age..
@@MrLandslide84 Yeah seriously. All I heard on this video is "I'm not wrong" over and freaking over. I wouldn't have minded what he did if he wasn't arrogant about it. There was about a 7 degree differential between once side of the condenser to the other before he pulled the refrigerant out. Afterwards it was almost 5 degrees. Not that much of a difference, the difference that was measured was likely just due to head pressure and (more than likely) multiple refrigerants in the system with different techs coming and I didn't see any refrigerant sticker on the unit. There is no telling what all was in that thing. He would've gotten the same results with any other refrigerant, not just R-22. Also, he didn't even bother to get superheat or subcool and judging by that 24 degree temperature split on return and supply air, it's possible he overcharged it. (Again, possible, could be filter, duct work, or blower speed) Probably just told this customer about his anecdotal "R-22 is the almighty savior of refrigerants" experiences and could charge the hell out of them for this simple job. Unless he bought that bottle AT A MINIMUM 3 years ago, I know that drum was at LEAST 1,000 dollars.
You just explained more theory to me than any of the hvac men have before, and I've been worrying about how I was going to pay for it since the 70's. Too late for me, but there are many, MANY worse things a fella, or gal, could learn for a trade. May the good lord bless and keep you safe.
That was totally a contaminated unit. Most likely someone too an R22 Drop In replacement and just put it on top of the existing charge. Everyone says 'oh you can do it, its a DROP IN'. No, you cant. It's a drop in replacement. You have to take the old stuff out. Someone who doesnt know any better, or didnt want to take the time needed to do a vacuum probably. I've run into someone doing that with R453 on top of R22, and the gauges wouldnt settle, just kept dipping up and down.
Sadly, there are too many "licensed" "professionals" out there doing the public wrong. Some techs are well aware of it and some just don't know. It's sad which makes it bad for those who do the work as it should be.
I’m not an hvac expert but I am surprised anyone would expect a compressor, valving, and coils designed, tuned, and balanced for a certain refrigerant would work properly with anything else. The customer is lucky they’ve engaged the expert tech with a private reserve of R-22.
People like you think there is some special "tuning" for different refrigerants. The reality is very little difference... because nobody is doing anything terribly special for a given refrigerant. It's the black box theory. What you don't know is always the causation.... but it seldom is. See by your logic any deviation results in reduced performance... That is illogical... But stick to your guns.
There are other refrigerants which are marketed as "drop-in replacements" for R22. The idea is that they have a PT chart which is the same or similar as R22. I'm of the same school of thought as Ted, in that they're more trouble than they're worth.
Nice split on that unit after correcting the issue Theodore. Think maybe the moron that was there and added refrigerant added 410 without thinking. That head pressure would lead you to think that is what happened. Loving the old school work ethic Theodore. From your friendly old hvac guy in Toronto, Canada. Been in this industry since 1974 and now I just putter around a couple days a week doing service work. Thanks for what you do to show these young folks how a real professional works.👍👍🇨🇦
At my old job we had to use 422B and I never liked it very much. I’ve got my own jug of actual virgin R22 that I use for my own purposes. Glad you got it taken care of and I’m sure the homeowners were thrilled.
Thanks for the video sir. I watched it the day you posted it. The hand around the condenser fan trick saved me hours of head scratching and frustration.
Good stuff Ted. Thanks. Be nice to those gauges though. I’ve been out of the business for a few years but I fed my family for a number of years with Yellow Jackets just like that.
Ted, back when I still had my Toyota 4runner, I had come across a company that was mowing a street run off basin. It was relatively dry. They had a zero turn mower in there and were doing well, but they hit a soft spot. I asked them if they needed help, and they were about to unhitch their van from their trailer to get the mower out. They liked my idea better, and I got them out easily. Having the right equipment is always important for getting the job done the right way.
I broke a brand new 410a window unit when 410a first came around. I fixed the leak, vacuumed and recharged with r22 because that's what I had at the time. That thing worked great for 10+ years after that.
I'm just an old retired, Broadcast and Music Recording Engineer. I was mentored, I was trained, by others, old school, competent, engineers. And I just love engineering. You're a wonderful engineer! I love your technique. And hearing you talk about, old school.. Yes! The way to do it right! The way real engineers, do it. Thank you sir! I had a, Bard, central HVAC unit installed. 33 years ago. And have maintained it. But might be time for a change? And I am weighing my options. But to hear and see you. Was an inspiration. That took me back. To my much earlier younger days. Getting my training. From the guys who had been doing it, 30 and 40 years before me. And I knew I was getting it from the best in the industry. The knowledge that carried me through for over five decades. And so nice to hear it again from you. Yes, I loved my mentors and colleagues. Most are gone now. And I remember them fondly. They were so important to me. They helped to make me the superior engineer, I became. And I not only found myself, one of the best, in my industry. I never thought I'd become a world authority on anything, myself? I mean who am I? I certainly don't possess the college degrees my mentors had. I don't have any college degree.. I mean I do but I don't. From years and decades of experience. Better than any school can provide. As now I help the younger engineers and mentor them as I was mentored. And hope they value from me. What I valued from my mentors and colleagues. I wanted to know that old school stuff. And the people who made it happen for all of us, early on.. From the real Golden Age of Engineers. I get a little sad, these days. Realizing that we are the last of our kind. They don't make them like us anymore. They don't make them like us. And so I feel like we are all going, technically, extinct. As nobody really has to design and build anything for themselves, anymore. Computers have largely removed the need for our technical skills. And with that. The technical knowledge to create. Imagination and creativity seem to be waning. Now, you just purchase the software you want. And no real need for engineering anymore. Now everybody can be competent enough to work at, McDonald's. When they weren't competent enough to make a hamburger, before. And still aren't. Because they are already premade and frozen. And how do you get ground beef patties? Do you first cut the beef up with scissors? Where does the propane go? Do you put it in the meat? How does this cooking thing work? Do you need heat? I don't understand meal preparation? If you can't just pull it out of the ground and crunch on it? Cooking seems to be complicated? I mean what's a Temperature? Cooking is getting very complicated. As you might have to use a spoon? How do you make a spoon? Can you make it out of paper? I guess I'm getting engineering and retirement, confused? Perhaps my Alzheimer's is affecting my dementia? I think I might need a, Lobotomy? Or a bottle in front of me? Yes that's it! I think I'll have another? What's with this liver, thing? Am I getting George Soros of the liver? Or is it Lung Can't Sir? RemyRAD
Wait I think your mistaken. Ted isn’t an engineer, he is an Hvac technician. Huge difference. Engineers only know theories but can’t do the work. That’s where the technicians come into play. We make your super smart crazy ideas and designs come to life! We couldn’t do it without each other, teamwork!! We have a joke about engineers about how they are way too smart. They can tell you how to create an electro magnetic field by slapping two objects together. But can’t open your front door to leave. Hahahaha
Old junk gauges!!???!! WTF? That's what I use all the time and they're as accurate as you'll ever need'em to be. And you forgot to check the suction line to see if it was beer can cold! 😉😃
That says a lot for the company that said they needed a compressor ! I have no problem with the old gauges, thats what they used when that condenser was built. The big problem I see is those HVAC companies or techs who don't have any R22 are so greedy that they will push the alternative stuff. He likely didn't evacuate the system and simply used some of the crap he want to use to "charge it up". Maybe more education is needed with that dude who did that. This is so simple to conceive if folks would just let it.
I used to be in this field. The diagnostic for this no cool complaint and how you diagnosed it was great! I learned a valuable lesson on that situation.
Did a lot of r22 back in the late 70’s till the 2000’s. what you did was right on. Have two r22 units still today. All I do is feel the low side line if it is cold never put a gauge to it. Hose inside out the condenser and turbine oil the motors. Good for another year.29 year old Rudd units. Contactors and capacitors only thing they ever needed
He is talking about the fan motor that the blade attaches too that takes an oil type too or lubricant think hair clippers and lubricating the blades. Or greasing a wheel bearing or changing oil on a car or transmission. All require oil and a certain type. To continue to run correctly.
@MrZzz877 As a customer, your perspective is rare now a days. I have had techs play all sorts of games so I would buy a new unit. One tactic is to scare customers to think their unit is to dangerous to use. Or rack up a list expensive parts that makes fixing it not worth it, then you are forced to get a new one. I had one do that, days later found out what he did on his 10 second video. I was so angry because I told him it was working fine a couple of days ago and even felt the heat come out when he was there. How awful to treat people like that. He downright lied, and actually told me the flue failed when it did not. and rack up expensive parts to fix when it all worked just fine. Pushing the dangerous story lie to customers. I didn't use that unit for over a month. Well we are not all stupid customers. I now know how my HVAC runs, I understand the whole heating cycle, and know all the names of the parts and what they do to complete that heating cycle. After a 2nd opinion, I found an honest tech, and my R22 23 year old unit is still working. My advice to others avoid big companies, their service contracts, their techs run on big commissions. Spend the time and find an honest tech, and don't allow anyone to bully you.
I deal with a company that has over 200 commercial units most of which are older R22 units. We are using up our stock of R22 and will eventually have to switch to a "retrofit" blend. Sure, they don't perform the same, but it's better than the extreme cost of R22. Most important thing is to make sure you've changed / added the proper oil to get proper refrigerant performance. If I had it my way, I'd use only R22 on R22 systems. But, the EPA has forced us to always be in a transition in the HVAC world.
Being the curious sort I am, I'd have really wondered just what was really in that unit, or at least what the standing pressures were. I make no claim to being a "super tech"...heaven knows I've done plenty of dumb stuff in the field! In fact, although I went to a trade school and enjoyed my time there, this didn't actually turn into my livelihood. I wouldn't have thought that temperature difference was abnormal, so I've definitely learned something today.
i aggree with you uxwbill though i havent been to trade school im seen in person and gave my thoughts on things and my self would use eather 407-c and NU-22 as there prices are much cheaper to use then the real r-22 but if you can afford to use the real stuff then great
I swear in my 12 years of RUclips membership, I've seen you everywhere,and are one of the original channels i joined to subscribe to, and yet I see you everywhere I go.
Finding noncondensibles with the uneven temperature off the condenser fan is a good piece of info to add my my toolkit. I appreciate learning that. Though charging without a superheat measurement on a piston system (I assume it is) kind of rubs me the wrong way if I am honest. For the age of the unit I am not sure this is the most financially wise repair but I definitely think it was a well done diagnostic and I LOVE learning new diagnostic tricks.
In the video,he stated that the people want to hold on to this unit because they're building square footage in the back of the house and don't want to replace the unit till addition is done.
Nice tip about temperature probe on top of condenser about diagnostic non condensables,really appreciate it Is good to find a guy with a knowledge to follow Thanks for sharing
I’d like to thank Ted for taking through this and through his thermostat in another video. Talking through the pressures and temperatures, making his assessment then his correction to demonstrate correct operation is most helpful. I have no criticism of “old school” when it is systematic and thorough (verified results).
Sounds like they just charged 410a in a 22 system. No problems with 407c 422d 448 449. Got plenty of supermarket rack systems that were retrofitted running fine for 10+ years
For 10 years now I have been charging and servicing ac units and never charged it by weight always went by the gauges, and never pulled vacuum on micron scale (still using old school gauges) and never had a problem.
Great lesson , R22 was so much more forgiving. 65 to 68 was always a good target suction.The "DROP INNS" never made me comfortable especially when you know your the third man out. The vacuum pump is always my starting point in this situation. Young or old the guys that use drop ins don't always get it and the customer doesn't even know what's going on . The problem is once a clean unit runs with that high head the life is diminished. Your correct it all boils down to math. Unfortunately $dollars and math dont always= performance. If it don't sweat and pee it ain't workin.
70 is more of a good target suction, 65-68 only if it's dry indoors, and the indoor temp is down to 70, or if it's a cool day outside. It's very normal to have 58-60 psi on systems like this with no low ambient controls and 60-65 degree outdoor temperatures and the system is not under much of a load.
In the old days we would say you pulled the vaccum all the way down Had 36yrs in trade never thought to test the non - condensable that way. But we didn’t have guys going out dumping all kinds of mixtures in them. I glad to see you’re actually using the right Freon. I hear most companies now won’t even work on them or mix shit up
We don't work on them at my company anymore. Bar some irregularities here or there, all the R22 systems are past manufacturer's life expectancy and the price for refrigerant repairs is practically a lock out to a new unit. We don't try to be sneaky and inform customers that some other companies may do the repair, just that we won't. Besides, as an industry, we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot trying to always be the "superhero" while charging almost nothing. It's a different time and a different work environment, and because technicians are tired of being paid wages from 20+ years ago for twice the work...things by necessity just cost more now. It sucks but we gotta eat, and it isn't our job to subsidize someone else owning a house at the expense of us constantly having to frankenstein repairs that never should be made anyway.
I mostly agree but if the owner wants to spend 2,000 dollars on r22 alone plus the repair them I'm your guy. Obviously we push for replacement but we do get stubborn people.
@@MindzEnt Lol, I am a little stubborn, got a R22 that's 23 years old. Yes not as efficient, but works pretty good even in over 100 degrees. Found an honest tech, who understands I have some knowledge in how it all works. Many customers can learn quite a bit from YT channels like this. I am subscribed to several to try to expand my knowledge in this field as a customer. I read most of the comments as well, and take notes. I won't be scammed by big company dishonest techs looking for a higher commission. Electric bill not out of range. I also know where that cost point is that tells me its time for a new unit.. But in the meantime I don't consider these units disposable either. The life of these appliances should be 15-25 years, not 10 to 15 years.
I'll use MO99 if the customer agrees to fix the leak, and it's not a unit that has head pressure issues (an area with bad cotton wood, wrong after market fan motor, older Payne units etc...) I have a few still running good now, and a few that bit the dust. One thing I learned the hard way, is don't forget to cut out or seal up your service valves, they WILL leak! If I had Ted $$$, I would also still use R22, but as a 1 man operation, you have to help the customer the best you can!
Proof is in the pudding Ted....she is pumping out hot air and cooling the downstairs. Like the way you old schooled her. This will be 31 seasons on my old Goodman 3 ton I installed in 1992. Hoping I make to Sept. 97 here in Orlando. Love your videos.
The way you charged the unit is exactly how I do it every time. The old school way is the best way in my opinion same with the vacuum leak down test. Tried and true. Maybe the “drop in” phony gas they used fractionated or they mixed a drop in with what little 22 was left In there. Also I’ve had experience with the oil holding onto gas and moisture causing issues similar to this. It’s best to use whatever gas was in there or designed for no matter how expensive.
You like what you like, but exactly how many microns of decay did he actually measure? Old school is a good way of saying no school! We all were able to get away with those methods in the R-22 days. I have accepted that for the new refrigerants to work reliably, we have to employ more advanced methods. It’s called “stewardship “!
A thermal camera is very useful checking the glide of the coil. A liquid saturated condenser will have excessive subcooling, with a large area with ambient temperature as no heat is expelled, due to no condensation. Liquid or non condensable gas will both give those symptoms. Whoever charged the unit last did not check the area of subcooling. Subcooling should not be more than 10% of the coil. To keep up with EPA 608 regulations, pick up a digital vacuum gauge from your refrigeration supplier. Yellow Jacket makes some excellent units that meet the requirements of the EPA. Update the Manifold to support the larger vacuum hose and the digital vacuum gauge.
Brand new r22 for 2-3 months lol. I find that cost hard to justify for just replacing it so soon. Otherwise did a great job. It is possible though to recover the refrigerant, remove the non condensibles and reuse what's left with a 2nd tank and transfer pump while still adhering to all epa regulations.
Ted, you have posted some really nice videos and you are a very experienced hvac technician, thanks. Wonder if you have any opinion on the leak stop/saver products? Which you simply inject into your system and supposed to seal small leaks. I wonder if you have used any of these and do they actually work? Thanks
Dude is really good...wish he worked in my area...I have a 5 ton Trane HVAC/Air Handler system with the ComfortLink II XL 1050 command control system...complicated system
Currently in LA 30lb jug of R-22 is $1,800 - $2,000. Always try to find leak first & never "gas & go". If it's only couple pounds short I'll top off charge with R-22. If replacing compressor or lost charge I use R-407C for POE oil & R-427A for mineral. Didn't see any pipe clamp thermistors when charging or any mention of type of metering device. I ALWAYS weigh in manufacturer's data plate if using original design refrigerant. If retrofitting with new blends I weigh in 80% of data plate & adjust according to metering device. Sub-cooling for TXVs & superheat for piston or other non-TXV. Now days can't just rely on "old school rule of thumb" & gauges.
It’s not brain surgery. I’ve been doing commercial/industrial HVAC for over 30 years. On a fixed orifice the beer can cold method gets them close enough. It wasn’t exhibiting any signs of being short on refrigerant. The fact he pulled it into a vacuum and the gauge didn’t rise tells you there’s not a leak of any significance. Don’t really need all the fancy digital crap. Everything doesn’t need to be right on. Besides you don’t really have any idea if you have enough airflow or if the duct work is properly sized. Years of experience like this guy obviously has he can judge by what he sees and feels if it is good enough or not. I know I sure can. Maybe one day you’ll be able to do the same.
The problem you'd run into on the car A/Cs (when R12 was going off the market), I converted a few of my cars to R134a. I got whatever R12 was left evacuated first. But people would NOT do that, then they'd have a mix of R12 and R134a. That doesn't work right. The fake R12 replacements, whether they worked or not otherwise, same issue, people'd just think they could top off their system with it. I bet some joker just topped it up with whatever. Good job keeping 'er running! I still have an old R22 A/C in my place and it's running great. If you were in my area I'd definitely give you a call if I ran into any problems with it!
HVAC tech from NY. The biggest problem is a lot of techs think they can mix refrigerants. The big chain repair companys like home serve are mixing r22 and 422b wich we know wont work. Plus most places dont say anything about the BTU loss from going to the drop ins.
I wish R22 was still in use for brand new home systems in the U.S.- because it was probably the best all around performer. I also think it ran at lower pressures which, if true, means less stress on the systems. Also, the new systems seem to be less durable compared to 20 years ago- like many products in the world. It's unfortunate.
I had 2 HVAC techs try to scam me. One said i needed a new condenser and the next one said i needed a new HVAC unit. Took a look at it myself and it someone put a 1 amp fuse in a slot labeled 5amp on the HVAC unit and pulled compressor fuse next to the condenser . System works fine now but i think it needs recharged but i don't want to call another scam artist.
This system might have had low airflow, or maybe a dirty air filter. I've found with R22, a good very approximate rule of thumb is suction pressure about the same as indoor temp. 76 indoor should be roughly 75psi. 72 degree indoor temp, 70 suction. A typical 9 or 10 seer unit would be roughly 70 psi low, 225 high side. Since this unit is 12 seer, I'd rather see more like 205-210 head pressure. With a fixed orifice, and those pressures I have no doubt in my mind Ted nailed the charge on this unit. Probably not very hot outside, and maybe not very humid in the house. Those suction pressure examples I change can and will change a lot depending on indoor humidity, because if the indoor coil is running really cold like this one was, and running at a 22 degree split, if there was a lot of indoor humidity, a lot of the cooling effect is going into removing that latent heat, and the telltale sign of that is a LOT of water from the condensate drain. In a very dry climate, if the dew point temperature of the ambient air is below say 40 degrees, and the coil temp is only 40 degrees at 65 psi low side, then there will be little to no condensate, and suction line dry as there will be no condensation.
It’s great to watch an “old school” evacuation and recharge of an R22 system. R22: When a standard manifold gauge set, a vacuum pump, and a thermometer were enough to get the job done.
I found a leak on an r22 system evaporator coil before my leak detector was pulled from the truck. Similar method of deduction to yourself, i actually had a huge temperature difference over the evaporator coil which made me at first question non condensibles, but low and behold the leak sniffer went off the rails right where the temperature change occurred
Ted Im glad your the kinda guy that takes the time to pay attention and know how an a/c unit is supposed operate and what to look for if it ain’t. How much longer is the life gonna be for that unit. It would sure be nice to know what them boys were carrying in that bottle when they filled up the first time? Hopefully nothing dangerous.
@williegillie5712 >>>> Well you never will know....just think they could have topped it off with R407 (refined propane) or cheap R134A gas (Tetrafluoroethane) I know a few have converted their old R22 to R134A .... they've had no issues. Legal? Well it's in a grey area if it works for trucks/cars/industrial cooling systems. All these new gasses/blends..... all flammable !!!! Where the old (R-12) dichlorodifluoromethane worked so well it didn't need much of anything. Oh don't give me all this climate bullsr*p as all the modern gasses are far worse than R12/R22!!! The most simple answer is to bring back R22 (other countries produce it..) keep R410 as is (they want to ban like R22) & stop reinventing the wheel..........
Ive only been to a couple units that someone has put a drop in and thankful they did write on the unit about using a drop in freon so i told the homeowner to get the company back that put that stuff in it
As a youtube supertech R-22 units need R-22. In some compressors, R-407C or R-458A can be used, but you need to check which oil it uses then purge all traces of R-22. You can't mix the stuff. IIRC there are a bunch of company specific blends now that work with R-22, but they need to be charged as a liquid and each have their own rules. Then in most old unite they say that it may eat seals, gaskets, etc that were used...unless its a late model R-22 unit its probably just putting it on life support for a year or two. But most of the time that means at least a new dryer and valves, and sometimes pressure sensors need to be replaced.
From an amateur who has studied A/C as a hobby and even took a course at the local votec on car a/c systems...I have a question. School was a long time ago but I remember weighing the charge and also using a chart with the ambient temp and going to what the high side and low side pressures should be when adequately charged. Using your experience what told you the charge was right on this system?
Listen nothing replaces R22 except R22. When your working on a 40 , 60 or 90 ton RTU and your refrigerant charge is over 130lb for two circuits you look to save money when R22 is $1550 per bottle.
Good Job, automotive hvac tech here. That unit was refilled by some hack i have started to do my own hvac work because im sick of calling pro hacks and getting ripped i can not tell you how many techs ive told off brazing lines on my unit with out running nitrogen or running a good vacuum on my system 🙄. I know do all my own work
We miss you R22 😢. I Learned a new skill with this video. Ted, I liked the confidence, but that was just showing off 😅 by opening the low side manifold valve to final charge while taking vacuum pump back to van.
I only put in r 22. I agree 100 % that the blends etc are BS . I did learn something from this video that I was doing and did not even know it. The hot spots on the discharge air at condenser. I always thought dirty coil. I did not think of improper blends or dummies that drop MO 99 etc.. right on top of whatever is in the 22 system. As always great info.
I have very little experience with residential/commercial HVAC but I have quite a bit of experience with automotive HVAC especially with r12 systems. I have retrofitted several but there are some r12 systems out there that work perfectly with r134a and some that just don't behave well with anything other than r12.
Its all about the condenser. R12 did great cooling with small condensers but when they moved to 134a, condensers had to be larger because 134a didn't carry the heat as well as R12. Especially at slow speeds with little air rushing through the front grill area.
That's when r 134a first came out. Nowadays for example if you were to buy new let's say fox body mustang replacement ac parts they are designed to work well with r134 a. The biggest differences is the condensers they have much smaller fins so a flushing solution won't work on most of them anymore and use aluminum VS copper. But condensers for cars are cheap these days like radiators at around 100 dollars I think the most expensive component is the compressors and clutch. But to me on old car you might as well do the whole ac system and flush all the lines out. Replace seals or o rings vacaum use the correct pag oil then charge it. Heck there is company that makes whole systems for vintage cars now.
@@gabrielstern4992oh I know. Whenever I do retrofits I toss the old condenser and install a new parallel flow one if possible however for some old obscure cars that's not always possible.
New tech here and I’m telling you Mr Ted I’ve learned more stuff from the old techs than I did in school this is a great example. I very much appreciate you for sharing all you’re knowledge with us thank you sr.
Your always gonna learn more in the field then stop school. Senior techs will know more tricks of the trade cause we been around (27 years here) awhile! But trust me we still don’t know everything!!!
*then in school. Not stop. Wtfook?!
Used to work with my dad in the 90's and early 2000's. Watching this service call reminded me of how easy it was to diagnose a unit with R-22. Thank you for taking me back down memory lane sir.
I've always looked for high side fluctuations on guages to determine noncondensables, but this way is a first for me. You learn something new every day.
Another way to identify noncondensables, requires that you know what type of refrigerant is in the equipment. Then you only run the condenser fan motor to insure that the refrigerant inside the condenser coil is at ambient temperature. Now get out your chart and see if the pressure is what is expected at that temperature. If so all is good if not you have noncondensibles.
The condenser whisperer: "A bad man fed you a bunch of junk and now you're sick, Let's get you all better"😁
Hope no one got hurt when that strap broke,
Interesting call Ted. I still like the ease of the simple old R22 systems, but I have no use for new phony refrigerants. It was good to see the difference with a proper load of R22 in that system.
Had 410 in it that was issue
Back in the day... R22 was the most consistent and easy to use refrigerant👍
Not a thing wrong with the old simple ways on an old unit like this. Sometimes all the data and fancy tools can slow you down. It's all about your experience and judging when to break those out or not. Id say you nailed it here. I say this as a huge tool and tech nerd too.
All Hail Brak!
I get ur point but 10 degrees across a coil wouldn't bother me 55 suction 300 head pressure a problem ,so something wrong, to be fair I'd b inclined to think blockage somewhere, but he fixed straight away so as long as customer happy (although R22 banned everywhere else in the world due to global warming) he sorted problem (would like to see a call back visit 6--8 weeks later) to see if problem solved
Hi Ted I just found you and love your videos , I’m a fridge mechanic of 40years and I am still learning every day, thanks for sharing your experience, the young technicians certainly need to watch and learn from someone like yourself, regards Rob Australia
There is just no substitute for years of experience as is shown in this video. Great Job!
Spot on, the second tool I use on a service call is my hand waving all around the discharge the first tool is my ears listening for a load on the compressor.
It's not old school it's "The best School".
Good job!
Started out using 407c around 2013 then later was using NU22 and now I use rs44. Ive been happy with results for 10 years. I just dont see a reason to put in very expensive R22 in a 20 year old unit that might have a small leak if i can use cheaper replacments. I dont blame Ted for not wanting to use it. I wanted to see the sub-cool and super heat :(
I have been using 407C/etc for while now in a commercial setting. RTUs etc. Works fine for us. Non condensables is freaking air. This guy a little extra on this....
407 is not compatible with the mineral oil in r22 systems. I have used mo99 with satisfactory results. I do only use that as a band aid though, and typically recommend system replacement on any r22 system because most I come across are in poor condition anyway.
You dont use mineral oil in r22.. use poe.. but that said its technically illegal to put r22 in any system now. Aint supposed to use it at all. So if you put the direct replacement. 407c or whatever itll work fine until the unit burns out from age..
@@MrLandslide84 Yeah seriously.
All I heard on this video is "I'm not wrong" over and freaking over. I wouldn't have minded what he did if he wasn't arrogant about it.
There was about a 7 degree differential between once side of the condenser to the other before he pulled the refrigerant out. Afterwards it was almost 5 degrees. Not that much of a difference, the difference that was measured was likely just due to head pressure and (more than likely) multiple refrigerants in the system with different techs coming and I didn't see any refrigerant sticker on the unit. There is no telling what all was in that thing. He would've gotten the same results with any other refrigerant, not just R-22.
Also, he didn't even bother to get superheat or subcool and judging by that 24 degree temperature split on return and supply air, it's possible he overcharged it. (Again, possible, could be filter, duct work, or blower speed)
Probably just told this customer about his anecdotal "R-22 is the almighty savior of refrigerants" experiences and could charge the hell out of them for this simple job. Unless he bought that bottle AT A MINIMUM 3 years ago, I know that drum was at LEAST 1,000 dollars.
Ted is the smartest tech on the planet.
You just explained more theory to me than any of the hvac men have before, and I've been worrying about how I was going to pay for it since the 70's. Too late for me, but there are many, MANY worse things a fella, or gal, could learn for a trade. May the good lord bless and keep you safe.
Videos like this are invaluable to younger guys in the trade. Thank you!
That was totally a contaminated unit. Most likely someone too an R22 Drop In replacement and just put it on top of the existing charge. Everyone says 'oh you can do it, its a DROP IN'. No, you cant. It's a drop in replacement. You have to take the old stuff out.
Someone who doesnt know any better, or didnt want to take the time needed to do a vacuum probably. I've run into someone doing that with R453 on top of R22, and the gauges wouldnt settle, just kept dipping up and down.
Sadly, there are too many "licensed" "professionals" out there doing the public wrong. Some techs are well aware of it and some just don't know. It's sad which makes it bad for those who do the work as it should be.
I’m not an hvac expert but I am surprised anyone would expect a compressor, valving, and coils designed, tuned, and balanced for a certain refrigerant would work properly with anything else.
The customer is lucky they’ve engaged the expert tech with a private reserve of R-22.
People like you think there is some special "tuning" for different refrigerants. The reality is very little difference... because nobody is doing anything terribly special for a given refrigerant. It's the black box theory. What you don't know is always the causation.... but it seldom is. See by your logic any deviation results in reduced performance... That is illogical... But stick to your guns.
There are other refrigerants which are marketed as "drop-in replacements" for R22. The idea is that they have a PT chart which is the same or similar as R22. I'm of the same school of thought as Ted, in that they're more trouble than they're worth.
Change the oil, it's just a pump the oil has to be compatible with the refrigerant.
Right we all said that in 1996.
Dumb comment....
Nice split on that unit after correcting the issue Theodore. Think maybe the moron that was there and added refrigerant added 410 without thinking. That head pressure would lead you to think that is what happened. Loving the old school work ethic Theodore. From your friendly old hvac guy in Toronto, Canada. Been in this industry since 1974 and now I just putter around a couple days a week doing service work. Thanks for what you do to show these young folks how a real professional works.👍👍🇨🇦
A new age problem solved with old school wisdom. Great video Ted!
At my old job we had to use 422B and I never liked it very much. I’ve got my own jug of actual virgin R22 that I use for my own purposes. Glad you got it taken care of and I’m sure the homeowners were thrilled.
Virgin
Thanks for the video sir. I watched it the day you posted it. The hand around the condenser fan trick saved me hours of head scratching and frustration.
Good stuff Ted. Thanks. Be nice to those gauges though. I’ve been out of the business for a few years but I fed my family for a number of years with Yellow Jackets just like that.
Ted, back when I still had my Toyota 4runner, I had come across a company that was mowing a street run off basin. It was relatively dry. They had a zero turn mower in there and were doing well, but they hit a soft spot. I asked them if they needed help, and they were about to unhitch their van from their trailer to get the mower out. They liked my idea better, and I got them out easily. Having the right equipment is always important for getting the job done the right way.
I broke a brand new 410a window unit when 410a first came around. I fixed the leak, vacuumed and recharged with r22 because that's what I had at the time. That thing worked great for 10+ years after that.
Interesting!
Same thing happened to me! I just used nitrogen and it work perfect too
Back off and look at the compression ratios! IJS
I'm just an old retired, Broadcast and Music Recording Engineer. I was mentored, I was trained, by others, old school, competent, engineers. And I just love engineering. You're a wonderful engineer! I love your technique. And hearing you talk about, old school.. Yes! The way to do it right! The way real engineers, do it. Thank you sir!
I had a, Bard, central HVAC unit installed. 33 years ago. And have maintained it. But might be time for a change? And I am weighing my options.
But to hear and see you. Was an inspiration. That took me back. To my much earlier younger days. Getting my training. From the guys who had been doing it, 30 and 40 years before me. And I knew I was getting it from the best in the industry. The knowledge that carried me through for over five decades. And so nice to hear it again from you.
Yes, I loved my mentors and colleagues. Most are gone now. And I remember them fondly. They were so important to me. They helped to make me the superior engineer, I became. And I not only found myself, one of the best, in my industry. I never thought I'd become a world authority on anything, myself? I mean who am I? I certainly don't possess the college degrees my mentors had. I don't have any college degree.. I mean I do but I don't. From years and decades of experience. Better than any school can provide. As now I help the younger engineers and mentor them as I was mentored. And hope they value from me. What I valued from my mentors and colleagues. I wanted to know that old school stuff. And the people who made it happen for all of us, early on.. From the real Golden Age of Engineers.
I get a little sad, these days. Realizing that we are the last of our kind. They don't make them like us anymore. They don't make them like us.
And so I feel like we are all going, technically, extinct. As nobody really has to design and build anything for themselves, anymore. Computers have largely removed the need for our technical skills. And with that. The technical knowledge to create. Imagination and creativity seem to be waning. Now, you just purchase the software you want. And no real need for engineering anymore. Now everybody can be competent enough to work at, McDonald's. When they weren't competent enough to make a hamburger, before. And still aren't. Because they are already premade and frozen. And how do you get ground beef patties? Do you first cut the beef up with scissors? Where does the propane go? Do you put it in the meat? How does this cooking thing work? Do you need heat? I don't understand meal preparation? If you can't just pull it out of the ground and crunch on it? Cooking seems to be complicated? I mean what's a Temperature? Cooking is getting very complicated. As you might have to use a spoon? How do you make a spoon? Can you make it out of paper?
I guess I'm getting engineering and retirement, confused? Perhaps my Alzheimer's is affecting my dementia? I think I might need a, Lobotomy? Or a bottle in front of me? Yes that's it! I think I'll have another?
What's with this liver, thing? Am I getting George Soros of the liver? Or is it Lung Can't Sir?
RemyRAD
Wait I think your mistaken. Ted isn’t an engineer, he is an Hvac technician. Huge difference. Engineers only know theories but can’t do the work. That’s where the technicians come into play. We make your super smart crazy ideas and designs come to life! We couldn’t do it without each other, teamwork!! We have a joke about engineers about how they are way too smart. They can tell you how to create an electro magnetic field by slapping two objects together. But can’t open your front door to leave. Hahahaha
Old junk gauges!!???!! WTF? That's what I use all the time and they're as accurate as you'll ever need'em to be. And you forgot to check the suction line to see if it was beer can cold! 😉😃
That says a lot for the company that said they needed a compressor ! I have no problem with the old gauges, thats what they used when that condenser was built. The big problem I see is those HVAC companies or techs who don't have any R22 are so greedy that they will push the alternative stuff. He likely didn't evacuate the system and simply used some of the crap he want to use to "charge it up". Maybe more education is needed with that dude who did that. This is so simple to conceive if folks would just let it.
Good job sir, I as an havc technician definitely appreciate the folks that came before me. Austin Texas baby!!!!
Great vid Ted! Love the tips and symptoms of issues that a new tech wouldn’t catch 👍
I used to be in this field. The diagnostic for this no cool complaint and how you diagnosed it was great! I learned a valuable lesson on that situation.
Did a lot of r22 back in the late 70’s till the 2000’s. what you did was right on. Have two r22 units still today. All I do is feel the low side line if it is cold never put a gauge to it. Hose inside out the condenser and turbine oil the motors. Good for another year.29 year old Rudd units. Contactors and capacitors only thing they ever needed
What is turbine oil?
AKA “Zoom spout”, good stuff, keep those motor bushing/bearings happy :)
Turbine oil is a light oil for electric motors
He is talking about the fan motor that the blade attaches too that takes an oil type too or lubricant think hair clippers and lubricating the blades.
Or greasing a wheel bearing or changing oil on a car or transmission.
All require oil and a certain type. To continue to run correctly.
@MrZzz877 As a customer, your perspective is rare now a days. I have had techs play all sorts of games so I would buy a new unit. One tactic is to scare customers to think their unit is to dangerous to use. Or rack up a list expensive parts that makes fixing it not worth it, then you are forced to get a new one.
I had one do that, days later found out what he did on his 10 second video. I was so angry because I told him it was working fine a couple of days ago and even felt the heat come out when he was there. How awful to treat people like that. He downright lied, and actually told me the flue failed when it did not. and rack up expensive parts to fix when it all worked just fine. Pushing the dangerous story lie to customers. I didn't use that unit for over a month.
Well we are not all stupid customers. I now know how my HVAC runs, I understand the whole heating cycle, and know all the names of the parts and what they do to complete that heating cycle. After a 2nd opinion, I found an honest tech, and my R22 23 year old unit is still working. My advice to others avoid big companies, their service contracts, their techs run on big commissions. Spend the time and find an honest tech, and don't allow anyone to bully you.
I just learned something new. Thanks for the video and diagnosis about non condensable
I deal with a company that has over 200 commercial units most of which are older R22 units. We are using up our stock of R22 and will eventually have to switch to a "retrofit" blend. Sure, they don't perform the same, but it's better than the extreme cost of R22. Most important thing is to make sure you've changed / added the proper oil to get proper refrigerant performance. If I had it my way, I'd use only R22 on R22 systems. But, the EPA has forced us to always be in a transition in the HVAC world.
Being the curious sort I am, I'd have really wondered just what was really in that unit, or at least what the standing pressures were. I make no claim to being a "super tech"...heaven knows I've done plenty of dumb stuff in the field! In fact, although I went to a trade school and enjoyed my time there, this didn't actually turn into my livelihood.
I wouldn't have thought that temperature difference was abnormal, so I've definitely learned something today.
i aggree with you uxwbill though i havent been to trade school im seen in person and gave my thoughts on things and my self would use eather 407-c and NU-22 as there prices are much cheaper to use then the real r-22 but if you can afford to use the real stuff then great
I swear in my 12 years of RUclips membership, I've seen you everywhere,and are one of the original channels i joined to subscribe to, and yet I see you everywhere I go.
hope you are doing good bill.
Laser focus on the problem sir. Great job! Makes me miss those good old, inexpensive R12/22 days...
This happened to me on a job the other day that definitely left me scratching my head. Thank you for the lesson sir.
Finding noncondensibles with the uneven temperature off the condenser fan is a good piece of info to add my my toolkit. I appreciate learning that. Though charging without a superheat measurement on a piston system (I assume it is) kind of rubs me the wrong way if I am honest.
For the age of the unit I am not sure this is the most financially wise repair but I definitely think it was a well done diagnostic and I LOVE learning new diagnostic tricks.
In the video,he stated that the people want to hold on to this unit because they're building square footage in the back of the house and don't want to replace the unit till addition is done.
Nice tip about temperature probe on top of condenser about diagnostic non condensables,really appreciate it
Is good to find a guy with a knowledge to follow
Thanks for sharing
Great job correcting the problem. Now homeowner needs go after previous tech and get a refund.
I’d like to thank Ted for taking through this and through his thermostat in another video. Talking through the pressures and temperatures, making his assessment then his correction to demonstrate correct operation is most helpful. I have no criticism of “old school” when it is systematic and thorough (verified results).
Sounds like they just charged 410a in a 22 system. No problems with 407c 422d 448 449. Got plenty of supermarket rack systems that were retrofitted running fine for 10+ years
Great job Ted ! I love the way you break everything down to simple terms!
For 10 years now I have been charging and servicing ac units and never charged it by weight always went by the gauges, and never pulled vacuum on micron scale (still using old school gauges) and never had a problem.
Not a super tech here, but love the channel and enjoy you diagnosing problems on HVAC units.
I like the old school analog gauges and methods. The enviro-phobiasts have made things more expensive, more complicated, and less reliable.
When in doubt evacuate, vacuum, and put the right stuff in. You got them calibrated hands. Thanks for a good on Ted.
Great lesson , R22 was so much more forgiving. 65 to 68 was always a good target suction.The "DROP INNS" never made me comfortable especially when you know your the third man out. The vacuum pump is always my starting point in this situation. Young or old the guys that use drop ins don't always get it and the customer doesn't even know what's going on . The problem is once a clean unit runs with that high head the life is diminished.
Your correct it all boils down to math. Unfortunately $dollars and math dont always= performance. If it don't sweat and pee it ain't workin.
70 is more of a good target suction, 65-68 only if it's dry indoors, and the indoor temp is down to 70, or if it's a cool day outside. It's very normal to have 58-60 psi on systems like this with no low ambient controls and 60-65 degree outdoor temperatures and the system is not under much of a load.
Thanks for the teaching experience. Apparently I don't know everything. You make it look easy.
In the old days we would say you pulled the vaccum all the way down Had 36yrs in trade never thought to test the non - condensable that way. But we didn’t have guys going out dumping all kinds of mixtures in them. I glad to see you’re actually using the right Freon. I hear most companies now won’t even work on them or mix shit up
We don't work on them at my company anymore. Bar some irregularities here or there, all the R22 systems are past manufacturer's life expectancy and the price for refrigerant repairs is practically a lock out to a new unit. We don't try to be sneaky and inform customers that some other companies may do the repair, just that we won't. Besides, as an industry, we have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot trying to always be the "superhero" while charging almost nothing.
It's a different time and a different work environment, and because technicians are tired of being paid wages from 20+ years ago for twice the work...things by necessity just cost more now. It sucks but we gotta eat, and it isn't our job to subsidize someone else owning a house at the expense of us constantly having to frankenstein repairs that never should be made anyway.
I mostly agree but if the owner wants to spend 2,000 dollars on r22 alone plus the repair them I'm your guy. Obviously we push for replacement but we do get stubborn people.
@@MindzEnt Lol, I am a little stubborn, got a R22 that's 23 years old. Yes not as efficient, but works pretty good even in over 100 degrees. Found an honest tech, who understands I have some knowledge in how it all works. Many customers can learn quite a bit from YT channels like this. I am subscribed to several to try to expand my knowledge in this field as a customer. I read most of the comments as well, and take notes. I won't be scammed by big company dishonest techs looking for a higher commission. Electric bill not out of range. I also know where that cost point is that tells me its time for a new unit.. But in the meantime I don't consider these units disposable either. The life of these appliances should be 15-25 years, not 10 to 15 years.
Retired old tech hear. That charging lesson is old school. It’s like a photo out of the 90s. Nice Ted👍
That's a great trick to tell u if have non condensibles w/o gages. I like it. " Super Tech Series"
I'll use MO99 if the customer agrees to fix the leak, and it's not a unit that has head pressure issues (an area with bad cotton wood, wrong after market fan motor, older Payne units etc...) I have a few still running good now, and a few that bit the dust. One thing I learned the hard way, is don't forget to cut out or seal up your service valves, they WILL leak! If I had Ted $$$, I would also still use R22, but as a 1 man operation, you have to help the customer the best you can!
I use the Mo99 also. But do recommend replacement of the system due to availability and price of R22.
Proof is in the pudding Ted....she is pumping out hot air and cooling the downstairs. Like the way you old schooled her. This will be 31 seasons on my old Goodman 3 ton I installed in 1992. Hoping I make to Sept. 97 here in Orlando. Love your videos.
Great job from one old school tech to another !!!
Ted, I don’t understand half of what you’re doing, but you are a true craftsman. Really a pleasure to watch!
Ted I can always trust your opinion you are a great diagnostics guy there needs to be more of you around great job here as always
The way you charged the unit is exactly how I do it every time. The old school way is the best way in my opinion same with the vacuum leak down test. Tried and true. Maybe the “drop in” phony gas they used fractionated or they mixed a drop in with what little 22 was left In there. Also I’ve had experience with the oil holding onto gas and moisture causing issues similar to this. It’s best to use whatever gas was in there or designed for no matter how expensive.
You like what you like, but exactly how many microns of decay did he actually measure? Old school is a good way of saying no school! We all were able to get away with those methods in the R-22 days. I have accepted that for the new refrigerants to work reliably, we have to employ more advanced methods. It’s called “stewardship “!
This way works us older guys all done it this way but its best 2 weigh it in so u no 4 sure what u done
A thermal camera is very useful checking the glide of the coil. A liquid saturated condenser will have excessive subcooling, with a large area with ambient temperature as no heat is expelled, due to no condensation. Liquid or non condensable gas will both give those symptoms. Whoever charged the unit last did not check the area of subcooling. Subcooling should not be more than 10% of the coil.
To keep up with EPA 608 regulations, pick up a digital vacuum gauge from your refrigeration supplier. Yellow Jacket makes some excellent units that meet the requirements of the EPA. Update the Manifold to support the larger vacuum hose and the digital vacuum gauge.
Learned something new today. Thank you
Brand new r22 for 2-3 months lol.
I find that cost hard to justify for just replacing it so soon. Otherwise did a great job. It is possible though to recover the refrigerant, remove the non condensibles and reuse what's left with a 2nd tank and transfer pump while still adhering to all epa regulations.
If a previous tech mixed 22 with a drop in the refrigerant mix is not usable and cant be separated.
Nice job. Good to have a supply of 22 left. Getting rare.
Ted, your the best. Nothing beats experience.
The process you used is exactly the process I use. Especially on the old style 22 systems. Have not had a bad experience doing so.
I agree with you Ted on impostor blends, ive seen this many times when the blends came out, but i only have 55 yrs as hvac tech.
This is something I would have never learned on my own. Thanks for showing.
Ted, you have posted some really nice videos and you are a very experienced hvac technician, thanks. Wonder if you have any opinion on the leak stop/saver products? Which you simply inject into your system and supposed to seal small leaks. I wonder if you have used any of these and do they actually work? Thanks
NO !! I would never use such a silly product. Adding glue to a system can’t be good.
Dude is really good...wish he worked in my area...I have a 5 ton Trane HVAC/Air Handler system with the ComfortLink II XL 1050 command control system...complicated system
Thanks Ted
Great repair
Very good info Ted. Thanks for sharing
Experience rules! Nice work Ted.
I like the old school way of thinking great work my man
Currently in LA 30lb jug of R-22 is $1,800 - $2,000. Always try to find leak first & never "gas & go". If it's only couple pounds short I'll top off charge with R-22. If replacing compressor or lost charge I use R-407C for POE oil & R-427A for mineral. Didn't see any pipe clamp thermistors when charging or any mention of type of metering device. I ALWAYS weigh in manufacturer's data plate if using original design refrigerant. If retrofitting with new blends I weigh in 80% of data plate & adjust according to metering device. Sub-cooling for TXVs & superheat for piston or other non-TXV. Now days can't just rely on "old school rule of thumb" & gauges.
It’s not brain surgery. I’ve been doing commercial/industrial HVAC for over 30 years. On a fixed orifice the beer can cold method gets them close enough. It wasn’t exhibiting any signs of being short on refrigerant. The fact he pulled it into a vacuum and the gauge didn’t rise tells you there’s not a leak of any significance. Don’t really need all the fancy digital crap. Everything doesn’t need to be right on. Besides you don’t really have any idea if you have enough airflow or if the duct work is properly sized. Years of experience like this guy obviously has he can judge by what he sees and feels if it is good enough or not. I know I sure can. Maybe one day you’ll be able to do the same.
Guys like you paved my road. Just hit 38yrs in the business now. Im still old school. Old school trumps!
The problem you'd run into on the car A/Cs (when R12 was going off the market), I converted a few of my cars to R134a. I got whatever R12 was left evacuated first. But people would NOT do that, then they'd have a mix of R12 and R134a. That doesn't work right. The fake R12 replacements, whether they worked or not otherwise, same issue, people'd just think they could top off their system with it. I bet some joker just topped it up with whatever.
Good job keeping 'er running! I still have an old R22 A/C in my place and it's running great. If you were in my area I'd definitely give you a call if I ran into any problems with it!
I installed a nest on my unit 8 years ago and have had zero problems with it.
idk my company has been using 422b as a drop in replacement for 2 years and we havnt had issues
LOL. Love the Decay test...Your the best.
Amazing 👏 craftsmanship 👏 Great job, sir 🎉
Wish we had some trustworthy AC companies like yours here in Texas! I've got an old "junky Goodman" that could use last leg love 😉
HVAC tech from NY. The biggest problem is a lot of techs think they can mix refrigerants. The big chain repair companys like home serve are mixing r22 and 422b wich we know wont work. Plus most places dont say anything about the BTU loss from going to the drop ins.
I wish R22 was still in use for brand new home systems in the U.S.- because it was probably the best all around performer. I also think it ran at lower pressures which, if true, means less stress on the systems. Also, the new systems seem to be less durable compared to 20 years ago- like many products in the world. It's unfortunate.
FACTS 🇺🇸👍
Love your videos just. curious will this also work for 410A? how you describe? in this video.
I had 2 HVAC techs try to scam me. One said i needed a new condenser and the next one said i needed a new HVAC unit. Took a look at it myself and it someone put a 1 amp fuse in a slot labeled 5amp on the HVAC unit and pulled compressor fuse next to the condenser . System works fine now but i think it needs recharged but i don't want to call another scam artist.
As an old retired grizzled R22 guy I like everything you did.
Not knowing the ambient I predicted 73 suction and 210 head.
This system might have had low airflow, or maybe a dirty air filter. I've found with R22, a good very approximate rule of thumb is suction pressure about the same as indoor temp. 76 indoor should be roughly 75psi. 72 degree indoor temp, 70 suction. A typical 9 or 10 seer unit would be roughly 70 psi low, 225 high side. Since this unit is 12 seer, I'd rather see more like 205-210 head pressure. With a fixed orifice, and those pressures I have no doubt in my mind Ted nailed the charge on this unit. Probably not very hot outside, and maybe not very humid in the house. Those suction pressure examples I change can and will change a lot depending on indoor humidity, because if the indoor coil is running really cold like this one was, and running at a 22 degree split, if there was a lot of indoor humidity, a lot of the cooling effect is going into removing that latent heat, and the telltale sign of that is a LOT of water from the condensate drain. In a very dry climate, if the dew point temperature of the ambient air is below say 40 degrees, and the coil temp is only 40 degrees at 65 psi low side, then there will be little to no condensate, and suction line dry as there will be no condensation.
Throws me off hearing anyone call refrigerant "freon"
Totally agree. Great video man. Learned a few things. Keep it simple.
Those boys with the stuck truck would have benefitted by using Matt's Off Road Recovery Kinetic Rope!
It’s great to watch an “old school” evacuation and recharge of an R22 system.
R22: When a standard manifold gauge set, a vacuum pump, and a thermometer were enough to get the job done.
I found a leak on an r22 system evaporator coil before my leak detector was pulled from the truck. Similar method of deduction to yourself, i actually had a huge temperature difference over the evaporator coil which made me at first question non condensibles, but low and behold the leak sniffer went off the rails right where the temperature change occurred
Great job, the old way still works today. I would have charged the same way. A lot of techs don’t know about the high side way. No Problem
Looking good Ted, love old school techniques. I also love the redneck truck rescue.. thanks for the comedy
Good call
Ted definitely learned something here keep
Up the good work !!!!
Ted Im glad your the kinda guy that takes the time to pay attention and know how an a/c unit is supposed operate and what to look for if it ain’t. How much longer is the life gonna be for that unit. It would sure be nice to know what them boys were carrying in that bottle when they filled up the first time? Hopefully nothing dangerous.
@williegillie5712 >>>> Well you never will know....just think they could have topped it off with R407 (refined propane) or cheap R134A gas (Tetrafluoroethane) I know a few have converted their old R22 to R134A .... they've had no issues. Legal? Well it's in a grey area if it works for trucks/cars/industrial cooling systems. All these new gasses/blends..... all flammable !!!! Where the old (R-12) dichlorodifluoromethane worked so well it didn't need much of anything. Oh don't give me all this climate bullsr*p as all the modern gasses are far worse than R12/R22!!! The most simple answer is to bring back R22 (other countries produce it..) keep R410 as is (they want to ban like R22) & stop reinventing the wheel..........
@@gettogo0159 I hear there’s lots of of R22 still around. Might be a good idea
Ive only been to a couple units that someone has put a drop in and thankful they did write on the unit about using a drop in freon so i told the homeowner to get the company back that put that stuff in it
As a youtube supertech R-22 units need R-22. In some compressors, R-407C or R-458A can be used, but you need to check which oil it uses then purge all traces of R-22. You can't mix the stuff. IIRC there are a bunch of company specific blends now that work with R-22, but they need to be charged as a liquid and each have their own rules. Then in most old unite they say that it may eat seals, gaskets, etc that were used...unless its a late model R-22 unit its probably just putting it on life support for a year or two. But most of the time that means at least a new dryer and valves, and sometimes pressure sensors need to be replaced.
From an amateur who has studied A/C as a hobby and even took a course at the local votec on car a/c systems...I have a question. School was a long time ago but I remember weighing the charge and also using a chart with the ambient temp and going to what the high side and low side pressures should be when adequately charged. Using your experience what told you the charge was right on this system?
Listen nothing replaces R22 except R22. When your working on a 40 , 60 or 90 ton RTU and your refrigerant charge is over 130lb for two circuits you look to save money when R22 is $1550 per bottle.
Good Job, automotive hvac tech here. That unit was refilled by some hack i have started to do my own hvac work because im sick of calling pro hacks and getting ripped i can not tell you how many techs ive told off brazing lines on my unit with out running nitrogen or running a good vacuum on my system 🙄. I know do all my own work
We miss you R22 😢. I Learned a new skill with this video. Ted, I liked the confidence, but that was just showing off 😅 by opening the low side manifold valve to final charge while taking vacuum pump back to van.
I only put in r 22. I agree 100 % that the blends etc are BS . I did learn something from this video that I was doing and did not even know it. The hot spots on the discharge air at condenser. I always thought dirty coil. I did not think of improper blends or dummies that drop MO 99 etc.. right on top of whatever is in the 22 system. As always great info.
Can't beat old school experience. I'm that my self.
I have very little experience with residential/commercial HVAC but I have quite a bit of experience with automotive HVAC especially with r12 systems. I have retrofitted several but there are some r12 systems out there that work perfectly with r134a and some that just don't behave well with anything other than r12.
Its all about the condenser. R12 did great cooling with small condensers but when they moved to 134a, condensers had to be larger because 134a didn't carry the heat as well as R12. Especially at slow speeds with little air rushing through the front grill area.
That's when r 134a first came out. Nowadays for example if you were to buy new let's say fox body mustang replacement ac parts they are designed to work well with r134 a.
The biggest differences is the condensers they have much smaller fins so a flushing solution won't work on most of them anymore and use aluminum VS copper.
But condensers for cars are cheap these days like radiators at around 100 dollars I think the most expensive component is the compressors and clutch.
But to me on old car you might as well do the whole ac system and flush all the lines out. Replace seals or o rings vacaum use the correct pag oil then charge it.
Heck there is company that makes whole systems for vintage cars now.
@@gabrielstern4992oh I know. Whenever I do retrofits I toss the old condenser and install a new parallel flow one if possible however for some old obscure cars that's not always possible.