A Series- Demystifying Cults: Two by Twos
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2022
- Quincee Gideon, PsyD talks about the Two by Twos (2x2s), this is a home based religious movement, originated in Ireland by an evangelical preacher, William Irvine. The church is called “The Way” or “The Truth”. Irvine was known for comfortable lifestyle (speculation of church funds) and “weakness with women”. In this video, Dr. Quincee talks about some of the concerning features that are seen in cult groups.
Some cult features in this group you will see:
🚩Preachers are itinerant (stay at churches for short periods of times and then move to another church) and work in groups of two.
🚩Believe that all god’s teachings must be expressed orally (almost nothing is written down)- red flag
🚩Ministers do not own homes or draw salaries
🚩King James Bible is the only book used
🚩Have to hear the preaching directly because it’s god speaking through minister or “worker”
🚩Salvation requires self-sacrifice and suffering is revered
🚩Modest dress, no jewelry, long hair for women, short hair for men, avoiding frivolous activities such as watching movies or TV, no social media
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thank you for this... I grew up 2x2 with heavy familial involvement going back 5 generations. When I left nearly 20 years ago, there was NOTHING out there for support or anything... so good to see more and more exposure. THANK YOU
I am so glad that you are here! Yes, trying to get as much exposure on groups like these! You're so welcome!!
I also grew up in the 2 by 2's and left it about 20 years ago. I rejoined briefly and quit again about 17 years ago, when I lived among this group in South America.
@@quinceegideonpsyd it's wreaked havoc on my, and others, mental health... I hope the exposure will catch on and help people to see how dangerous these insular groups can be - childhood indoctrination, oi vey talk about complex trauma...
Your video was shared on a group page I'm apart of with other ex members, just so you know there are many people who are grateful :)
@@momicamcgregor9452 Oh I love that the message and video is getting out there! Thank you so much for sharing that with me! I fully agree with you on the dangers of these groups, that's why I want to bring all the awareness that I can!
Yup, 2006
It’s been 5 years ago at age 17 I left the meetings. I have never been happier. I just wish my family will someday come to the same conclusions I have.
My dad grew up in this cult. He wanted my siblings and me to be part of it too, but my mom stood strong, and wouldn't let us. I am so thankful for her
Thanks Dr. I grew up in this group and left forty four years ago. Only now am I still unwinding the twists in the soul that this type of indoctrination leaves in a person.
Despite the obvious downsides which you cover well, most of these people mean well and try very hard to live a good life. This side seems to not get a mention in the ‘de-mystifying’ but it is quite real.
I feel like it's more so that they have been brain washed and we know that these people mean well, but they have been taught this way of life for however many years and then it's hard for them to see reality when they are sucked into the things of these groups that are harmful.
@@quinceegideonpsyd yes I know that we know. My point was that the actual goodness does not get a mention. I speak for my Mother, Father, Sister and many lovely people whose behaviour would be a fine example to many people messed up by the moral disintegration of the modern world. You cannot successfully demystify this cult without telling the whole story. I suspect you are more interested in bagging it than de-mystifying.
Don’t get me wrong. I cannot believe what these people seem to actually believe, but it’s about living in a psychological vehicle that allows the existence of faith, hope and charity. Institutionalising any such system is doomed to fail on some and perhaps many levels. Still there are wonderful people trying to do good.
@@randallmathews8365 no no not bagging here at all, I think I misunderstood your response which I apologize, I definitely could have stated that they are good people and mean well, but again to my point people in these groups have definitely been taught a certain way with teaching, as with every group and religion, but de-mystifying that way people know that weren't ever alone in their struggle when apart of groups like these.
I was scarred by growing up in this sect/cult. I was the first in my extended family to leave when I was 17 and it was incredibly hard to do. I was ostracised at school because of how I had to dress. You grow up believing that all love is conditional which is awful, ie thinking that God, the workers, even your family will only love you if you follow the (rigid, ridiculous and contradictory) rules. Maybe I’ll write a book about it someday! Of course all the people themselves are lovely, but they’ve mostly been unwittingly brainwashed and are emotionally/socially trapped with no concept that if they live another way they will still be worthy.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing. And that’s not the Gospel
Me too.
I’m growing up in a home going to meetings in this church and i want to leave so badly. i’m almost an adult, so i don’t have much longer but learning about other people who have escaped this toxic environment is so so meaningful to me
Yesssss my mom is the black sheep for joining a Methodist church when I was 12. Her parents still host meeting almost every Sunday. Thankfully my dad’s side of the family is normal.
I am a member of this faith and am surprised to hear some of your claims. I found your video when searching for information on my faith involving a large sex abuse scandal. So, I am open to hearing criticism of my faith. In the interest of fair play and accurate information, I'll let you know what I've learned about my faith in the last 58 years.
Although having been raised in this faith since I was born, I have never heard about William Irvine or his history. I did hear, however, that some of the early workers that came to the US were from Ireland. Unlike the Mormons for example, who revere Joseph Smith quite openly to this day, my faith does not talk about William Irvine or his doctrine. It's not that we aren't allowed to talk about him, it's just that he is a non-entity, at least in my experience and in others that I know of in this faith. So, it would be inaccurate to suggest he is someone with a cult-like following. Perhaps that was so when he was alive? But I assume any influence he may have had died with him, otherwise he'd be a familiar name and be revered openly to this current day. I read up a bit on him, and it sounds like he was a man of poor character. However, I haven't read any references so far that indicate he was a man who lived a "comfortable life." I'm not saying that's inaccurate, I'm saying I haven't seen evidence for that.
You claim we believe God speaks to us directly through the oral preaching by the two workers. That is not correct. I was never taught that. It is preached, and is common knowledge among the friends that the truth of God is found in the bible. Yes, we commonly use the King James Version, but some use other versions and many possess various versions for the purpose of more indepth study on the meaning of what is written. I remember hearing more than once that if we hear the workers - or anyone - speaking doctrine that is not in line with the bible, then that is false doctrine. What the workers preach is respected but only if it is in line with the bible.
You also say we can't get the word of God from anywhere else. Yet in my faith, we acknowledge being spoken to by the holy spirit in many various personal experiences in life. Ultimately, the word of God comes from the bible, but prayer and meditation are also tools that God uses directly to our hearts to teach and guide us. I have often felt spoken to by something a non-member says or something I viewed in nature, etc. So no, the word of God does not only come from workers. Also, our fellowship with each other is a big source of the word of God to our hearts.
You say we are only allowed to hear the preaching directly. That is not true either. While it is true that it is encouraged that people be present in person to hear the preaching, that is not a hard, fast rule. During Covid, for example, there were many meetings that were done over the phone on a zoom call. Also, it is very common to take notes of a meeting and share those notes with members who were unable to be there in person. I myself have been unable to attend some meetings but have been given a way to listen in because I am disabled and therefore need special accommodations. They are very good at supplying those alternatives.
Suffering is respected? Goodness me. Yes and No. I can respect those who have a particularly hard life as they keep fighting to be right before God. But that happens as life evolves. It is not a requirement we seek. We don't recommend wearing hair shirts, for example. This life is full of suffering naturally without looking for it or creating it. No, no. That's not how it works. Did Jesus suffer? Yes! He was/is our example. It's very hard to have battles with the inner voices, human vs spiritual. Some verses that speak of suffering are: Phillipians 1: 21 and 29, II Corinthians 12:10, I Peter 4:12-19, Mark 10:29-30.
Yes, it is certainly preferred that both men and women present themselves modestly. As far as appearance. That is not an unknown virtue among religions. It is not super obvious like the way Mennonites or Amish dress, for example, and I wouldn't call them cults. But yes, we do advocate for modesty and that is also biblical. I Timothy 2-9, for example.
You also claim we are not allowed to have a media presence or are discouraged from doing so. Well, here I am having a media presence. I have for many years, as have many others. There are preachers and members alike who have Facebook pages, for example. What is said about the internet is to be careful that we don't get so caught up in it that we give it a more important place in our lives than God. That's a pretty normal admonishment. Even schools, for example, work to restrict internet access so kids have a well-rounded and safe learning experience as opposed to having eyes and brains glued to the internet. We all know that isn't healthy.
I am just one person, of course, and you don't know me from Adam, but this is my own personal 58 year experience with my faith. I hope I have presented a more accurate picture of this group by telling my side of the story.
Thank you.
Most of what I heard in the video is far from accurate. If she wanted to get the facts straight she needed to interview honest professing people. She listen to one side and judge it a cult. Farthest thing from it. We dont have our own doctrine either. We follow the doctrine of Christ. The whole reason I have been professing for over 30 years leaving false doctrine of the worldly denominations behind. Thank you for your input on this. You are spot on with the facts.
@@terryruda6425 Thank you, Terry. I hope you are having good, uplifting days.
Look up on RUclips:
The Two by Twos (The Truth, Workers and Friends)
It’s the history in a nutshell.
I also was raised in this way. Things were different when I was young. The internet didn’t exist. Until you open your mind to see the real truth of many, you will defend what you know. If you’re happy worshiping this way, no one can tell you you’re wrong. Likewise, you cannot tell someone who doesn’t believe like you that they are wrong. That’s the whole point.
Sadly, my home was one with much abuse and we had Wednesday night bible study in our home all of my life growing up.
Things don’t seem to be as strict as they used to be under Hubert Childers, Dale Spencer, Jim Price and so my others. It has evolved in what I was taught would never change.
Just try not to judge. If you’re happy, then be happy.
God loves all of us.
I suggest you buy the book Preserving the Truth and learn something about the history of the group. The reason you never heard of William Irvine is because the overseers that eventually excommunicated him then made a point of erasing him. The organization has been rife with corruption since very early on. Does that mean all members are bad? Definitely not. But the underlying doctrine is false. If you haven’t already, I suggest you join Connected and Concerned Friends and learn about everything that has come out in the past year.
And to preempt your questions about me credibility, I was a member for nearly 50 years, and left last year after discovering the historical and pervasive corruption and cover ups and the false doctrine that is the basis of the group.
youtube.com/@aandrus2169 -Well said! Thank you all for speaking up.
I spent 45 years in this group.... left years ago so found this interesting and meaningful.
Thank you.
What was the reason you left? I am still professing and just happened upon this video while looking up verses for the Sunday morning meeting. I am a bit shocked that people actually think that is what we are. So I am curious about your story.
@@rainydaywindsor7953 Hello! I’m not the original commenter but also left the truth a couple of years ago. I’m not sure where you’re located but I’m in the midwest of the US. I’ll share a little bit of my story! I want you to know that this was my journey and not yours; whether or not you decide to continue professing in the cult is completely your journey and I respect that. I grew up as a 4th generation girl (meaning my great grandparents were introduced to the truth). I believed it with all my heart. I was super into music and used to play the hymns by memory and switch the keys from major to minor for fun. I prayed constantly, probably about 100 times a day every day. I woke up at 5am to read my bible for the 100th time and believed every word was holy. When I was about 12 all the other girls started talking about boys so I joined in. We’d go around saying our crushes and I’d pick the super faithful guy that everyone else had a crush on. I’d convince myself that I’d like him because of his faith and this and that. But the feelings were never really there. When I was 15 I had this standpartner who was a prodigy at the cello. I liked the way her hair sat perfectly at mid-back, the way she sat in her chair, the way she expressed herself when she played the cello; her fingers brushing against the fingerboard. It hit me like a ton of bricks- I had a crush. The word crush is so perfect because I literally felt crushed. It felt beautiful and ecstatic and I was feeling this beautiful feeling for the first time, but I felt an insane amount of shame, thinking that it was sinful and I was going to go to hell unless I could get rid of it. She was my first crush, and I wanted with everything in me to crush the feelings out of my body. I prayed, I talked to workers, I listened to my parents read leviticus and romans and matthew and every verse they could find with any possible reference to homosexuality. But my crush never went away. It was a terrible amount of shame and loss. But eventually I started to realize how beautiful the feeling of love was. I prayed to God and I had a dream (maybe he gave it to me, but I’m agnostic so I don’t care as much anymore- I did then). In my dream I had this woman I wanted to ask out and we were sitting on a boat together. It was stormy and we were close to some rocks, and we were scared our paddle boat would capsize. I grabbed a rope and dove into the water, and found a rope less anchor at the bottom. I fastened the rope to the anchor and swam back up to the boat. When I got back in the boat, the water was calm and the environment was so beautiful and peaceful. So from that dream I believed that God told me as long as I had him as my anchor he would give his blessing on my queer love. I had my first girlfriend when I was 17, and I didn’t tell my parents because I knew they would react badly. When they found out I was dating her, they sent me three hours away to a different state. I had this great feeling that maybe if I followed all the rules like keeping my hair long, wearing dresses and skirts, letting the men lead, continue to share sunday morning and wednesday night, and strengthen my relationship with God that he would help me to show them that love is beautiful and that it is not a choice. But over and over again I had people cutting me out of their lives for fear of becoming gay or ruining their chance of getting into heaven. Over and over I had ministers preaching that gay people should die in a fire “as god intended”. Over and over I had to try to explain to people that had never felt queer love that it wasn’t a choice that I had feelings for women and that love with them was beautiful and my God knew that. Eventually I started to see the holes in the system of the truth. For me the holes that were evident were: the belief that God was peaceful and perfect (when in reality he was very angry and vengeful through most of the old testament, that a woman’s length of hair did not define her faith towards God (curse my slow growing hair versus everyone else’s super long hair), that pants did not belong on women (except sweat pants and shorts? make it make sense lol mind you it took me YEARS to feel comfortable in pants after being brainwashed into skirts and dresses my whole life). My sister is a worker and I love her dearly and will always respect whatever choices she makes with her religion. I wouldn’t want to coerce anyone in or out of the truth. But I do think it’s powerful to share stories! I left the cult when I was 19, and it wasn’t easy to leave. I would never go back due to the mind control tactics and trauma I have from people trying to convert me out of being gay. No living person made me gay, or way I grew up, or lifestyle. It was the last thing I could have ever wanted. But I’m so glad I ended up being gay because I’m not sure I would have seen the holes otherwise. One thing that is interesting to look at if you’re thinking what on earth is this person talking about mind control: You could look up Steven Hassan’s BITE model of authoritarian control. Have a wonderful 2024 (or whatever year people might read this haha).
I suspect it varies a great deal by locality. My grandfather was a Two By Two a long time ago. My uncle said they were very trustworthy people. @@rainydaywindsor7953
I have ptsd from leaving this church and leaving my abusive ex
I grew up in the middle of this in Brazil and Thank God I got out when I was 23! My whole family is still part of it and they don’t accept no one saying nothing against it! They believe that they are the one ones that has the chance to be saved ( they don’t believe you are saved just accepting Christ)
Meu Deus, nunca pensei que no Brasil, essa heresia existisse. Por ser tão fechada. Como era as reuniões? É verdade que as mulheres não podem não podem cortar o cabelo, os membros são proibidos de assistir televisão?
This breakdown is extremely helpful - especially how you showed all the different examples of red flags. When I work with clients suffering from Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) and we revisit their experience, they often speak on many of these topics. This is extremely helpful and simplified for those who may be suffering.
I was raised in this and this is spot on (minus the social media! The majority of people I know including older people, have social media!). Thank you for speaking out about it!
You are so welcome for speaking on this! How do you feel like those in the group act on social media? Do you find there are different ways in their postings, engagement, vs others who aren't associated in this group?
We were told the internet was of the devil and worldly in "The Truth" (called two by Twos only by outsiders which I didn't even know they called us that until I was shunned and excommunicated for calling police to get help for abuse by my husband). When internet came out it was a huge no no/sin. We still got it but we were only allowed to use it for school work. When I was a kid if you watched a movie you were going straight to Hell. Social media only became "ok" due to so many rebelling against the rules. Many of the old school workers though still don't agree with it at all, mostly because the internet has movies and porn and outside exposure.
@@jenj9837 Fair enough! I think it definitely depends on location! Even though I left in 2013 I am still friends with many workers on Facebook! I know professing people all over the states and other countries that have social media so I guess maybe it’s changed since you left or something! Every single VERY professing family member I have (including the older ones) are on social media! There’s entire Facebook groups for fields and what not now! So yeah maybe that’s your experience but as far as I’ve seen, the majority of friends that I’ve meet all over the world have social media.
@@quinceegideonpsyd I used to be on Facebook and had friends from the truth on there. I started talking about the truth on a Facebook post and one of the friends said let's talk about this in a private message not in public, almost like it needed to be hidden for some reason. I ended up thinking that guy wanted to debate me or help me believe in the truth again. But during the PM during the next few days I told him all my biblical arguments that disprove the truth and I started getting this really bad feeling, i actually felt physically ill and it had something to do with that conversation. he ended up exploding at me saying, "it's over, and we're not friends anymore" and he unfriendly me on Facebook. It was a pretty tense experience unfortunately, and I didn't know that that would happen.
I have heard the 2x2 in the 🇺🇸 are currently being told not to read the Child s abuse claims on social media
I grew up going to meeting and professed when I was 14, I only did because i wanted to make my family happy. I was 17 when I left and it was the hardest time of my life it was so emotionally difficult seeing my parents cry when I said I didn’t want to follow “the truth” anymore. I’m 20 now and I still feel so alone there’s no one to talk to about this since most people don’t even know this exists and it still affects me so much because I love my parents and I used to be very close to my entire family but ever since I left I hate being around them I just feel so judged and they always just seem so sad and disappointed every time they look at me. There always telling me there’s hope and their praying for me and when I said I didn’t believe in it they lost their mind and I just don’t know what to believe anymore because their constantly just trying to convince me to return. The workers are coming to stay with us and I have so much anxiety about it. Any way probably no one cares but yah
I care. I'm so sorry you are going through that. I honestly care and feel so much empathy for you because of my experience.
Hey! I know how it feels to be so isolated like that. If you need a friend or someone to talk to who gets it, I’m here!
I professed at 12, baptized at 16, I’m 17 and want to leave so badly. Knowing how disappointed my parents will be breaks my heart and makes me so scared but these stories are encouraging and make me feel less isolated.
my daughter helped me see the light. Now she's passed and I know the only thing God requires of us is to show love abe lights of that love to all.
I never grew up in the truth, but found it when I was in college. It was so pure and so beautiful and we both know that what this woman is saying about it isn't all true. It is not a cult by any lengths. I think it can be hard to see what you have when you have it. Me coming from the world and then finding it made it so clear. It's okay that you are working it out for yourself. You feel lost because you are now missing the one thing that can hold us together when we are lost. If you aren't ready to profess, than absolutely don't....wait until God speaks to you. My husband realized he did the same thing as you and professed because he felt it was the right thing to do and so he decided to stop speaking in the meetings and wait for God. Maybe just go back to the missions to hear what God places on your heart. And I want to say that I'm sorry that your parents are putting pressure on you. That isn't this way, that is the human nature of a scared parent. It IS a scary world out there and I am sure they love you so much that their hearts feel safer if you are professing. But that isn't their call, and they need to trust both you and God.
Who was a kid at convention in Utica, South Dakota in the 90’s?? You’re my people 😂
I was there in the 90's! I had a 7 year old son and 13 year old daughter. Who are you?
@@leeannekaden2600 I’m Kirkman adjacent
I grew up in this "religion" and it has affected me until adulthood. I quit going to meetings at 13. I feel i missed out on childhood not being able to do social things with my peers. No music, no dances. My most hated time of year was conventions and the constant pressure to profess. Sadly after rebelling i fell into despair of feeling lost and doomed. I fell into drugs heavily and spent my late teens to mid 30s in a haze. I am 10yrs sober now. It wasnt until recently i began to research the 2x2s. I feel relief like a huge weight being lifted, there are others like me. Others that were cheated and have recovered. I have small children now and cringe whenever they ask about god or religion. I give the most generic answer i can and move on.
My family started going in the '93 or '94 when I was 5. My brother left when he was 17 and me when I was 19. I'm glad we left and our parents support our choices - not at first, but over the years, they have accepted and supported our decision.
My experience is if you were not born in this group, you're treated like an outcast by the members of the truth and the "worldy" people. Which I feel fucked me up cause I felt like I did not belong anywhere.
@@binz88 me too
@Josh Nelson - times may have changed, but my story and experience hasn't. Have a blessed day, now.
How do they “support” your decision? I’m in a family of 6 and 3 have left and my dad believes they are lost and outside of the “fold”. I have my own thoughts on all of this contrary to what the “truth” believes of which I think can co-exist.
@@byronmann4525 ask your dad how Jesus could say "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold" and "he that is not against us is for us". Jesus was not exclusive. Nor did he preach hiding truth to maintain appearances (Child S3x Abuse Scandal surfaced after Dean Bruer died), but rather quite the opposite: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men’s bones and of all uncleanness." and "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."
I grew up in this group and by age 30 I was on anxiety medication (no longer, hurrah!). It really is a toxic belief system that messes with your mental health. What is said in the video is pretty accurate although I think in some parts of the world the dress code is less strict and I have seen workers on social media such as Instagram but this is probably the minority. I read in the book ‘the secret sect’ that the founder Irvine spent his last days exiled in Jerusalem, thrown out of the group he created, possibly quoting the group as ‘a great experiment’.
Irvine later on (after the truth was already a group) started thinking he was one of the 2 witnesses that would be killed and rise from the dead after 3 days, I think in Jerusalem? It never happened. But apparently he died with a significant amount of money, which he bequeathed to at least one family member. He was a former scottish freemason (3rd degree i think) who never renounced freemasonry.
The workers actually live comfortably off the members - from using members' cars to staying in members' homes, getting washing and laundry done for them along with meals, to members having to be silent in their own homes to satisfy the workers "quiet times", to workers receiving donations. Mealtimes are even arranged around the workers' whims & children mist address the workers as "aunty" and "uncle".
This group wrecked my mental health. They hammer in the teaching that there is no guarantee of heaven but that there is a small chance through obeying the workers' rules and the workers' interpretation of the Bible. It left me convinced I was going to hell.
😂 I’ve never had to call them aunt or uncle where in the world were you raised?? That’s crazy
The UK
I wouldn’t call this a cult in the sense that you aren’t chased and rehabilitated back into it; you’re allowed to leave. But I see why people do call it a cult with commonalities in dress plus behaviour and the idea of a lost eternity outside of it. The latter of which is something I disagree with still being a “member”
The King James Bible in commonly used, however there is no rule against using other translations, I am a member of this church and use the New King James Bible, and I know people who use the ESV as well.
the use of any other text besides the King James bible was frowned on by the workers where I grew up
The variations between regions is interesting. My grandfather was denounced by an elder in front of the congregation for using The New American Standard Bible to try to gain a better understanding of the scripture.
Don't bastardize the term "homeless" by defining it by the choreography of the "workers"; it's quite disingenuous to those who are ACTUALLY homeless. Same with the worker's "poverty". Insular, ostracizing, retaliatory, fraudulent, deceptive are more accurate terms.
William irvine had a child with his cousin i believe in Scotland. That child ended up living with his grandparents, and he ended up living in New Zealand and became a Presbyterian minister.
Oh wow!
The saddest part is in "The Truth" abusers are actually rewarded in many many different ways. It's disgusting the hundreds of abuse of all kinds and sexual abuse stories from within that I could tell you. It's heartbreaking. The PTSD that they gave me and thousands of other women and children, is so disturbing.
Yeah, and more came to light in the past year. Kind of makes me question the hierarchy, yet the meetings themselves don’t seem to change in meaning.
Thanks for this, Dr. Gideon. This group showed up on my radar 2 or 3 years ago in Canada. More publicity and education is required in general to warn others and provide help.
Thank you so much for this! My mom was involved in this movement. She left but somehow got roped back in at the end of her life. I have been dealing with aftermath of this exposure my entire life. I never understood it, and this is very helpful!
I grew up in this very group. Southern Illinois, USA. 2x2s I have family that still goes.
I was raised in this church in Northern Ireland, although in a very odd way. My father married into it and his family were very aristocratic, and I was brought up by domestic servants who weren't 2x2. I always remember that being a bone of contention at home because my father always said "the workers are just illerate peasants" but we also had to go to the meetings and conventions. On the one hand we were told to do as they said but on the other hand we were constantly told they were social inferiors and treat them like a peasant. Both my parents would make us sit through hours of meetings a week but also say, "if you don't go to university and marry well you might have to become one of those pathetic little workers." It was very confusing.
thanks for doing this video!!! i’m an ex-2x2 😃
Same
I have a relative that acts like that but I never knew. Thanks for letting us know the basics of what they believe now I know why they never leave their community very often. I wondered why they talk about God so much. I see that everything must be communicated in a close group.
I grew up in this like so many others. A few things have changed, but most of what you shared is accurate. They are okay with certain people listening to phone in broadcasts of meetings/conventions, but only if that’s the only option available to said person.
Correct - I think podcasts are more common since the lock down
modest dress is a good thing
I am not a member, but my in-laws are & while I have many issues with the religion, there are some inaccuracies in this video.
My MIL has given us a number to call to listen in on conventions & meetings.
Thank you… I got out summer of this year…
They will also listen live to “meetings” or the church services if they can’t make it. Thank you so much for this! It will help me describe the “church” I grew up in to others.
You are so welcome! Thank you for being here and listening!!
Listening live only became a thing in my town and in my parents meeting in their home anyway during covid. And recording it has never been allowed. The exception to that was Conventions if you were too elderly to attend you could call in on the phone. At weddings also the prayers of workers for instance were not supposed to be recorded. I can't think of any sunday gospel meetings or Wed. Bible study meetings or Sunday morning meetings with live zoom/skype/phone call ins ever that I was in, it wasn't allowed in our area until covid. I'm thankfully shunned anyway.
All i can say is me too! it feels so good to be understandood
I am currently forced to go to meetings by my parents I will say a LOT of this video is very accurate, there is definitely a lot more stuff however I will say the only inaccuracy would be social media. I know a lot of people who go to meetings who have social media they don't tend to post things like "verses" and "god loves you" etc. it is mostly just normal things like family photos etc.
I grew up in truth and have NOTHING but fond memories.... Most of this video is a load of crap. I still go to meeting on occasion...... 46 years, and its the only sincere faith I've ever come across
Satan working hard to destroy God's true way. I came out of the world and God showed me his ministry and way. Sad some workers had issues with sexuality like the rest of the worldly denominations. We are all human and prone to sin. The way is still right.
@@terryruda6425 absolutely
Agree
basic understanding of Church history dismantles the whole 2x2 ministry, the epistemology is lacking within 2x2's and they are not succeeding the apostles (apostolic succession) You're now burdened by knowledge and I advise you to research and actually find TRUE Christianity, God bless.
I agree with most of your points, although what is the case in the US or Canada, does not necessarily hold true in other parts of the world. Quite a number in my country, Workers included, use the NIV Bible for example, and it can be not uncommon to see the Convention Ground owners in the Movie Theatre. Some Dress Codes seem to be loosening up, finally, although there is a long way to go. But in the 5 minute clip, you covered a lot of ground. We have saying down under, that "if you throw a stone into a mob of sheep, the ones that bleat are the ones that got hit", and this is evident by some of the comments on here. Keep up the good work
Although I am not a member of this church I grew up around it. It is not true that you can only hear through mtgs in the home. They have conventions where they pipe in our people at home can hear the conventions going on.
My mom is there… She believes it the true way…
Eu nasci nessa seita e permaneci lá até meus 21anos. Foi uma infância infeliz e traumática pois tudo era proibido e era pecado, sofri bulling na escola devida só minha roupa e cabelo, até hoje tenho sentimentos de inadequação e luto com isso. Por ser filha única tudo era muito mais opressivo. Quando eu finalmente me libertei, minha mãe se tornou minha inimiga e eu fui excluída por todos da seita. Do após muitos anos,minha mãe se reconciliou comigo, foi triste, pois ela era infeliz mas não tinha coragem de se libertar. Quando ela faleceu, após ser fiel por 65 anos os ninguém foi ao seu enterro, pois ela foi cremada e a seita não aceitou essa decisão.Hoje tenho 64 anos e apesar de tanto tempo se passar, tenho péssimas recordações desse tempo.
Meu Deus, eu já pesquisei tantas seitas religiosas radicais que já perdi a conta. A maioria prega a doutrina do cabelo longo, nada de televisão, rádio, telefone, maquiagem, batom, calça e short jeans, bermuda, camisa de mangas curtas, e sempre vivem isolados e não se associam com pessoas fora da seita religiosa radical. Algumas não tem aqui no Brasil, e nunca pensei que o Two by Twos tivesse chegado aqui no Brasil. Na verdade, essas doutrinas dessas heresias também tinha nas Assembleias de Deus, na Igreja Deus é Amor, na Congregação Cristã, entre os Pentecostais Apostólicos (até hoje tem entre eles). Bem, eu sou membro da Assembleia de Deus em Pernambuco, e a doutrina é assim rígida ao extremo, a minha mãe não corta o cabelo, e aqui não podemos visitar nem mesmo outras Assembleias de Deus, pois sempre fomos ensinados que só a nossa Assembleia de Deus iria para o céu mas confesso que me acostumei. Tenho medo que eles encontrem esse meu comentário, às vezes me pergunto se Deus se importa com o que vestimos, mas não quero quebrar a doutrina e ser visto como um mal exemplo, pois sempre fui visto como uma criança, e depois um adolescente exemplar. Tenho medo de sair, às vezes me pergunto se essa doutrina é a verdade, não cortar o cabelo, não usar batom, salto alto, tecido jeans, bermuda, sandália. Minha mente está tão confusa. Tem uma página no Instagram chamada "Berean Holiness" que fala sobre essas seitas religiosas radicais, e a fundadora era membro da Free Holiness Church, uma igreja muito rígida nos EUA, mas conseguiu sair. Talvez eu não seja tão forte como todos para tomar uma decisão, não quero tomar uma decisão errada. Talvez o tempo diga o que está certo ou não. Só espero que eles não vejam a minha mensagem, pois já excluí as mensagens nessa página do Instagram pois eles viram.
Some of this isn't true, at least not for the community I grew up in. I had an NIV Bible growing up and people definitely listened to recordings of sermons. Almost everyone was on Facebook and Instagram too. There was even a "professing" memes page for a while.
The Instagram one😂
i still in this cult and you can have over the phone meeting now and media is more okay with them. but other then that this is spot on.
I grew up with this religion and it completely effected my childhood in a negative manner. I didn't have the feelings of "love" for this god who could know my every thought. I felt cursed at a young age to "Know the Truth" and know it wasn't something I felt genuine joy or any positive feelings about so would end up in a scary place called hell. so I left as a teen, broke my mothers heart. she felt (as did I ) that I would be doomed to go to hell. not until I was in my 40's!!! did I recognize it was all bs Now I consider myself aitheist and have a moral compass that doesn't require a bible or prayer.
Many Mormons and JW's i have met and heard of who left their organizations have had similar experiences of forsaking faith entirely. Because the experience they had turns them away from all Christian faith (as well as other religions probably). I thought I was going to hell after leaving the truth too. I ended up browsing the new age bookstore for a few years, seeking something, anything to help me understand why we're here. I ended up having sleep paralysis a lot during that new age phase so I sold and threw out all my new age books and started reading the Bible again. I never really became atheist although I have had moments where I contemplated the possibility. I just couldn't accept a universe devoid of meaning. A Godless universe with no other purpose besides blind chance and science that somehow by accident created everything. The truth was all I knew until I was 17. So it really got ingrained in my personality and to this day is the only thing that I feel completely at home in....despite the fact I know it's not the church that began 2000 years ago with Jesus and denies areas of scripture's theological teaching. It was tough for me to leave, and I would never have done so if my father didn't leave the truth first, in protest to the kickouts that happened and abuses that were allegedly covered up. The kickouts were people the workers kicked out for asking too many questions and supposedly not "minding their own business" to paraphrase the culture in the truth in how people are expected to operate.
*Kickouts and abuses in the province of alberta, canada back around the 2000's*
@@prayunceasingly2029Thank you. This was really well written.
@KatKrueger you're welcome! Thank you too 😊
If you were a part of this organization and it influences you heavily still whether you are or are not a part of it, I recommend never to try any psychedelics. I would talk about my experience if anyone’s interested, but short story, this way heavily influences me whether I want it to or not. There’s no line between serving god and going to meetings, they are intertwined, which is extremely internally conflicting for me.
Okay...around 3:20 when you mention listening directly...my gf (when she can't go to meeting) listens to it by calling in....and muting her phones mic etc...I'm brand new to this...While I'm familar with many other denominations/religions, I grew up in the Assembly of God...I see this as a cult and am researching this before I make a judgment...but I will say I have been to one Wednesday night meeting...in which we met at a persons home, sat in chairs in the living room...each person shared what was on their mind as it relates to the passage they were suppose to read...except for my gf...she wasn't allowed to share her thoughts on the passage she read in preperation for the meeting....nor was she allowed to share her thoughts on what was read that night. I was taken a-back!
She probably hasn’t professed than but she could share if she really wanted too, no one’s gonna stop her
L
hulu has a special, released last week: secrets of the 2x2 church
I think they're getting more accepting of other Bibles now but they still have no recordings/videos/literature and only believe that the teaching orally is still the way to know how to be saved.
I only know this because I have family in this group. They read from other Bibles now. But when I was in it the king James was the only Bible from what I remember.
Edit - Also dress code when not in meetings has seemed to relax a lot. The women sometimes wear leggings instead of the traditional dresses they wore back in the day
Thank you so much for this information!
@@quinceegideonpsyd
You're welcome 🙂
@@prayunceasingly2029 dress code still the same in Australia.
@@lauraconti7900
Oh, in Canada the dress code remains while attending, but when they're out and about and doing non church related activities, the female relatives I have in it no longer only dress in dresses and skirts etc. They wear jeans and leggings in non church activities. They still all have long hair though. And no piercings etc. But I think they cut their hair shorter now. But still the shortest is shoulder length or longer. Back in the day cutting of women's hair shorter was frowned on. I was at convention as a non member about 8 years ago and the worker in his sermon on the worker stand literally said (to more than 100 people) that cutting of women's hair was as bad as cutting a piece off Jesus's cross. But he was likely a more extreme worker because such extreme sounding rhetoric isn't very common.
I grew up in this religion in Ireland, having been born in a family that followed it, but i never made the choice to profess or be baptised, and stopped attending over as a teen almost 20 years ago. None of my immediate family are still in the religion (my dad having left when I was very young, my siblings never interested, and my mum disillusioned by my twenties), although some extended family is, and remain friends with members too. Personally, I am agnostic.
A lot of what this video says is inaccurate though, maybe a really extreame version, but not one I would recognise. Distinctly, we were always told the word of god was from the bible as the single source of truth, never ever the workers. Not sure where this idea that suffering being celebrated has came from either? Also, everyone i know that remains in the religion is on social media, and stream movies etc all the time..
As a member of this church I would say that most of what you have said has changed quite a bit in the pas 30-40 years.
Here after the Dean bruer debacle. No it hasn’t. Aren’t you encouraged to not look up stuff on the internet about the ‘truth’? I know I was by the leaders
I call bs the only difference is everyone has smart phones and the internet the rest remains true.
@@zman42 well it caused me a good deal of religious trauma I hope it’s doing better
@@zman42 no one I know is trying to ‘harm those in the gatherings’ they do enough to harm themselves by hiding sexual predators
@@zman42 There are leaders, overseers. Dean Bruer was an overseer
Hi! I am afraid that so so much of this information is completely inaccurate :/ i can only imagine that is because your sources are mostly people who have left and don’t have a very high opinion of the church…
Hi, actually, don’t kid yourself.. I grew up in this church. Guess what, life is way better outside of this way x
she didn't miss
If you read the Bible you will see it didn't start in Ireland. The word Ireland isn't even in the Bible. It started when Jesus called the 10 disciples.
2x2's do not have solid epistemology, unlike Orthodoxy, Catholicism or a few protestants. 2x2's is a sect that started less than 300 years ago out of spite.
You are not entirely correct about much of what you have said. Almost everyone even the ministers are on social media and the like. People also watch TV shows and movies if they want.
A lot of this isn't true at all. However I know that you are working on third hand info., so I respect your effort. ie. they are all on social media in the 1000s.
Their church services are not.
@@kathyfoster7461 True they are not. But in my area (at least during most of Covid) they were available via Zoom and phone.
Disappointing to find many factual errors in this report, and ordinary matters reported in such a disparaging way. The KJV isn't the only translation used, ESV, NKJV and NIV are common. Salvation is not widely taught as dependent on self sacrifice, but a free gift to the undeserving; modest dress, yes, but not so rigidy enforced. No Social Media? There's many Facebook groups, RUclips used extensively and so on. That's just wrongly reported. Preventing access to info? Back in the 1970s I was directed to "The American Encyclopedia of religions", whose short article was described as "pretty accurate". Only hear God's word aurally? Never heard that said in the last 40 years or more. Please: do the research, and get a wide opinion, not just rely on some hearsay from a small group of dissidents.
Unfortunately, you have evidently only seen a small slice of the whole 2x2 religion experience. Good for you that it's mainly been positive. Don't discount the lived experience of others who have received religious bullying from the workers and some of the 'friends'. It happens. Try to be better informed.
@@prairiesky1144 I can understand why you might think that, but Having lived in a few countries, travelled extensively I do have a wide exposure. I am not trying to deny horrible behaviour by some. Just pointing out that a public description should be balanced, representative and fair, from all angles. It should not make out outliers as typical.
You may have traveled extensively etc. but your comments indicate that you are lacking in first hand experience of how others have been treated by the 2x2 system. Growing up in the so called 'truth' I recall hearing some of the workers speak about only the KJV bible was to be used. A close friend was strongly reprimanded by a worker for wanting to use a bible dictionary. I was scolded by a worker for asking about the history of the 2x2 religion, which was a strange response because if something is really 'the truth' it would welcome deeper study and understanding. There are other things that eventually caused my eyes to be opened to the real truth that salvation is in Jesus, our Lord and our God. (Do a bible study on this, and yes, it's in the bible). Salvation is not due to and because of going to meetings/conventions and relying on what the workers speak. But, it is God who opens our eyes to His Truth. So, having been raised to believe that going to meetings and professing was the ONLY way to possibly be saved, it was like having the lights turned on when I realized that God's salvation, grace and mercy are so much more than what I had heard from the workers. We all need to pray, read, study and humbly ask our Heavenly Father to help our understanding of His will for our lives. We need to not be afraid to learn about church history and the church fathers. "Perfect love casts out fear". I believe that.
@@prairiesky1144 GLORYbe to God our Father and our Lord & Savior Christ Jesus!!!
i agree! thank you Jesus!!!
The point is...If you get Jesus wrong, it doesn't matter what you get right because it's a CULT. They think of Jesus as a god, the Holy Spirit as a feeling that is given...not a person of the Godhead. They believe only their workers can decide when your ready for salvation. NO....they ways are so FALSE!!
@@zman42 u don't like the truth.....just b ignorant than
I was just looking up a few verses for Sunday morning and somehow came across this video. I have heard that people call what I am apart of as the "two by twos" and wondered what they thought we were about, as I am SURE I am not in a cult. (and I understand how silly that must sound as many people that actually are in cults are blind to it) I can see clearly and you can ask me anything you want. As kindly as I can say it, you are putting out information that isn't actually true about what people call the "Two by Two's". We don't actually give ourselves a name because Jesus didn't go by a church name. It sounds like you have gathered up bits and pieces here and there to present a video but don't know what it is actually like. I would love to let you know what you have wrong if you are interested.
hi again, it's internationally registered as a cult
@@jenicanaef8042 that is literally "irrelevant" ...cults have a "leader" at the top ... in some cases, there will be more than 1 leader at the top, such as with "jehovahs witnesses"...
myself and my brother have been called by God, and i mean quite literally. our testimony of how it happened is really long but in a nutshell, it was an act of God, and we have received not only miracles but also God has ...HIMSELF sent my brother and i out... so in reality, it can be said about us that we were sent " 2x2" and althought this happened 4 years ago now, it wasnt until last night that i ever even eard of a group called the " 2x2's".
also, when this all happened ...it happened when we got on our knees and "cried out" to God, "IN THE NAME" of CHRIST JESUS! AMEN
by the way, i agree with what jenicanaef8042 said regarding a name... why would anyone who truly walks that "narrow way" ever label themselves as a religion or denomination? those who have the "truth"(ill say it), they KNOW that they walk "in the Spirit" that Christ said would be sent to them.
the Spirit and the "receiving" of the Holy Spirit is not just some idea, it IS an "EVENT" that actually happens.
people are quick to judge others ...especialy when they go by what others have to say about something they themselves do NOT understand.
@@justinhemion6279 no, i'm fouth generatioin in the truth and it is still internationally registered as a cult. your definition is convenient but inaccurate. you can have your faith, that's totally fine. i think if you truly follow the ten commandments you're doing alright. not all the friends do. you do you.
My wife goes to this church. Not a cult at all.
She wears pants but dresses up to go to church just like many other people who go to different churches do. Wears light makeup. Has social media. Watches movies. Doesn't rely on the ministers for salvation but just like any other church and their preachers she listens to them for encouragement. Not sure where you are getting your facts from but that’s not how things are today from what I see. I’ve even listened to a couple of the sermons on the phone with her and it was just messages of uplifting Jesus and encouraging words.
I grew up in this also and am not a part of it anymore. You actually misrepresented much of what is true. While it may be a cult (I don’t personally think it is), I would take this video with a grain of salt.
I’d just like to tell you from a personal 2 by 2 this is wrong, we are aloud to record the meeting for later and still use the King James Version because it’s the most correct and pure bible
Maybe this is something that varies from region to region.
The debate is out on whether the KJV is currently the most correct and pure, but in the early 1900’s when Irvine formed the church, KJV was likely the best. I still love it for it’s beautiful wording.
Recording has never been allowed in any region I've ever been in, especially strict for prayer. Calling in live on phone/zoom was not allowed until covid (exception being convention and special meetings for elderly if can't attend). Maybe your area was looser on rules. Still thankful everyday to have been shunned and excommunicated. It was so hard and made no sense at the time that everyone supported my convicted abuser and that I was not to be spoken to by the friends and workers and that I was "removed", but now I see how I was being saved from that cult of religious darkness and evil and allowed to awaken and grow and be brought out into light where I could shine and finally know love and peace 💜.
@@jenj9837 I’m sorry to hear about your experience and yes I did word the part about recording wrong, what I meant was that if you weren’t able to attend then someone could call you and put there phone next to the speaker so you could listen in if not able to make it
I never knew of a recording but definitely notes from meetings are passed around via hand, email or letter.
I was a member of this cult about 60 years ago.I must have been a peculiar case as altho I was reared in it and even professed I was not very religious and faded away when I was about 21. I had a lot of good friends and and still remained friends when I faded away.. The conventions were fun and used to serve the meals and they made excellent porridge.Sorry for the girls with no lipstick etc and so when I took a trip to Canada married a lovely nurse of that outside bad world and she was sure nice. The was trouble in the Truth in Victoria when Mr CRrol retired and took a couple of the nice female workers to look after him, My very nice mother spoke to me about it but I suggestered she stay as it was a nice friendly club for her. And she was religious and enjoyed the Bible. I was a bit bad and did associate with Worldling. 93 now and attend Canadian United church.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of eternal life to all who realize that they are sinners deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever they trusted in before, if indeed they trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
'a man' who is "AMEN"
Word salad processed through a pig.
Sounds like the "Two by Two's" need to get hit in the head by 2 × 4's.
The only thing I agree with is King James only.
Ethiopian bible still has many of the original stories in it that King James had removed. King James also changed it to control and confuse humans. Many of the original stories are found hidden in caves to save them in the Dead Sea Scrolls as well.
@@jenj9837 LOL, okay sounds good.
King James didn’t change the word of God to control or confuse humans that’s the devil! King James stick close to the original manuscripts. You must be bound by sin and if you can say the Bible is corrupted which it’s not. Then you can make an excuse for your sinning. The wages of sin is death
@@jeffreymullen4129 thats right! God PROMISED to "preserv" His Holy Word! and it just so happens that the KJV is just that...God Word preserved!
They actually get paid through government allowance
Not true
@@livelove11 they do I was with a worker when he first started and he was showing me all his paperwork they are/were on a government allowance under being a priest ect
If this is the case then it’s not true 2by2 literally knowing people right now who have to get rid of everything including alllllllll money in order to go into the work, and they will never receive or be able to spend money again.
You need to listen to those who are inside the faith, NOT those who have left for whatever reason. You will find a very happy contented people who simply follow the simple teachings of Jesus.
a week before i left, the other Friends would have considered me happy and contented. but i hadnt been for years. former friends are more clear eyed than current ones. Also lol literally hundreds of people left over the past few years, especially with the Dean Breuer scandal a few months ago.
If those still in are happy and content, then where is their joy? Look in early Acts at the joy of the early believers. Then look at the grim faces in sombre silence before the meeting and the women sobbing at "testimony time" at convention for "failing" & not being "good enough" to the so called standards of the workers
I was born into the group and was neither "happy" nor "content" in it. My mental health really suffered as a result of the workers preaching on no guarantee of heaven & even then only a slight chance of heaven if we kept to their rules and obeyed them.
So sorry, but you are speaking untruth. I can see your heart is wanting to protect people, and I'm thankful for that, but I don't understand why you speak about something you have never even encountered.
You are wrong in your research The finest people on earth. Truthful law abiding citizens who appreciate what Jesus taught and that he died for everyone!
Jesus wasn't a law abiding citizen. (in a good way.)
and many of the Workers being kicked out and arrested for molestation and rape arent law abiding citizens at all.
Maybe you should get some of your information from those who haven't left--a more unbiased way of reporting surely. Many of the things you report are simply not true. Have you ever attended meetings yourself? If not why not?
it's laughable to imagine that current members would be less biased than former members. former members may be biased, but they would by definition be far less biased than current members.
modest dress is good, dont sckew this issue
This lady is completely incorrect in many of her points.
1) not a cult. A cult is easy to get into but hard to get out of! This way is hard to get into, EASY to leave!!!
2)workers do not live on destitute poverty.
3)other bibles are used! Children’s version, NIV, etc.
4) no social media. Wrong!
Are the people or the workers perfect? No! Jesus is the only perfect one!!! Show me a group or religion that is perfect🤔
If you get TRUE PEACE in your form of worship stay there. I do!
Thank you for sharing your experience. It doesn’t match up with what others have reported in this group but I’m glad your experience sounds safe.
The "way" is correct because it follows Jesus. The people are not right because they are human. There are traditions and philosophies that are not correct, which workers, elders, and followers have a hard time getting away from or don't realize that's what they are. The problem is that people have a tendency to follow the messenger and not the message (Jesus) and that my friend is wrong. You have to have an individual relationship with God to get to heaven. Modesty is wearing jeans on a windy day so you don't flash your neighbors, that's common sense which some people are still trapped in the tradition of wearing a dress. Cutting your hair so you can comb it or because you have COPD is common sense. I've cut a workers hair because she had headaches. Sister workers wear pants in Vietnam because their skirts get caught in the motor bikes and it will kill them.
@@quinceegideonpsyd agree, you need to talk with people that go there. As others said, no one is perfect except for Jesus. A lot of people are stuck on old traditions, but things are changing. People MUST have a relationship with God. With all the chaos and business of social media, is it easy to make time to be alone with yourself and God? Reading your Bible, Praying? Going to meeting forces you to learn how to make time away from the world to be with God. I am now learning of the corruption from certain workers and that is not okay at all. Paul did say that someday evil will infiltrate the church. Get rid of the poison and carry on stronger.
This is very interesting. I know people that have been in the truth for over 5 generations and almost every single thing she said is on point. Kings James Bible is the only one that’s allowed -especially for the kids.
@@quinceegideonpsyd the variety of experience I think comes down to parenting. My parents only “forced” me to go to meetings. Other than that I’d behave how I wanted
What you say is not true.
seems pretty true imo, ik what i have seen
I have tattoos , wear makeup,blue jeans ,this is very inaccurate
Brilliant, at least you can understand most children raised in this church would not be allowed to do that or are shamed for it.
@@zman42 you are a male, of course you are allowed to wear jeans.
In the 1970s 1980s when I grew up in this men were allowed to wear jeans, women 2x2s were not allowed to were any kind of pants, no make up, no bangs, no jewelery and you had to have long hair which was usually put up in a bun, a french braid, french twist (up), or two braids if you were younger.
@@rach9466 well what parent would let a child get a tattoo? That’s a big decision for someone under 18 years old!
Don't think this is true
It is true my wife came out of this wicked cult. They believe you lose your salvation if your not a part of their group.
@@zman42 Your are totally lost and you need to read the Bible. The only way you can be reconciled to God is through Jesus Christ. No other name under heaven whereby man must be saved but Christ Jesus. This wicked religion doesn't hold the key to salvation. Please explain how telling the truth is spreading hate.
@@zman42 The only workers I find in the Bible are the Workers of Inequity. We need to stand behind the Word of God and not behind what man is telling us. Some of the doctrines that are being told are way off. Ask the Workers about the 144,000 only being the ones in heaven. My Bible says multitudes that man could not number. You do know the only other religion that believes that is the Jehovah Witnesses. Where is their statement of faith which tells what they believe in? Oh that's right they don't hold to a statement of faith. Don't you see the problem there? Their doctrines are all over the place. One group teaches one thing and the other group teaches something else. They go by every wind of doctrine. Ephesians 4:11-16 And He gave some to be apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,12 for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ,13 until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;14 that we henceforth be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and their cunning and craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;15 but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, even Christ,16 from whom the whole body, fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Stay from this wicked religion. They do not stand behind the Word of God. Where is the fivefold ministry? It's all made up by one man William Irvine and followed by many lost souls. Ask your workers about Adulterous William Irvine and they follow this wicked guy.
@@zman42 How did I dive off of topic? I would say you are correct with your assertion that the workers of iniquity are not saints. The Bible is clear we are to be saints set apart from this world. To be sanctified by his word and to be Holy as the father in heaven is Holy. And again what about William Irvin that started the two by two. He was a heretic and people that are caught up in this wicked religion are going to end up in hell just like him. I'm very concerned about people getting caught up in these wicked religions. We need to be caught up in Jesus Christ not a religion that leads to hell. Just think of what you are trying to say about the two by two religion. It was formed by a wicked adulterous man. This is no different than the Mormon religion formed by Joseph Smith or the Jehovah Witnesses formed by Charles Russell. They all claim to hold the truths from the Bible. Why not stop following man and be lead by Jesus Christ. He said he would send the Holy Ghost to lead us into all truths. 1 John 2:27
Plenty of incorrect information. Lots of ignorance. Too many generalities. Cult is a nasty word. Try talking to some of the people in the church before making assumptions.
I was raised in this church and I think cult is a very fair description.
@@zman42 Have you read all the recent sex abuse allegations and Dean Bruer letters and other recent letters about workers that were accused/convicted or child sex abuse??
You don’t get the truth by talking to current brainwashed members
I was also raised in this and everything she said is correct except that they do use social media and since covid they have access to listen to gospel meetings by phone. She should do an update about all the CSA that is coming out now. This cult attracts pedophiles just by how they move around and spend so much time in people's homes. Also she didn't talk about the lack of transparancy with respect to $$$ - this cult still has a long way to go before it is no longer a cult.
Same
This faith was NOT started by William Irvine. William Ivine was just another branch that fell off. Jesus himself instituted this fellowship and ministry. Maybe read your Bible and do your homework and trace the roots, not the branches that have dropped off, before you make such videos.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nothing of any record before 1897 in Ireland.
I was told what you were told all my life… except there is nothing to back it up.
@@janeencovlin1563 You dont need anything to back it up. Read your Bible. We walk by faith not by sight. Go back further to Titus, to Timothy, to Peter, to Paul, to Jesus. Follow the roots, not the branches. If this faith was started by William irvine, it would have fizzled out as quick as it started but because it is of God you cannot overthrow it. Read Acts 5. V38 n 39. Also read 1 John 2:19. God only reveals it to those who genuinely are seeking and blinds those who turn aside. 2 Thessalonians 2:11. God works by Spirit and revelation, not by leaving a trail. God gave us Jesus and that is all we need. Your answers are all in the Bible, not on the internet. Pray for revelation of what you read.
@@janeencovlin1563 Do you ever hear the Workers talking about William Irvine??? No, they preach Jesus. Thats where our roots are. Jesus, and only Jesus.
@@valstevens8319 They absolutely did talk about William Irvine. His was a household name just as much as Jack Carroll, Willie Jamison, George Walker, Irvine Weir, et al. He was excommunicated, though, and they tried to whitewash him from their history.
Basic understanding of Church history dismantles the whole 2x2 ministry, the epistemology is lacking within 2x2's and they are not succeeding the apostles (apostolic succession) You're now burdened by knowledge and I advise you to research and actually find TRUE Christianity, God bless.
Half this crap is a lie .get some better info woman
Sounded accurate to me lol
You are so wrong in many points! Jesus said there is only one way!!
That’s so not true