Thank you Mark and Jeff, for taking the time to sit down like this. I watched it all and took notes, also to share internally (and I'm sure many people at Pimax will watch the whole video). We all want virtual reality and Pimax to succeed so this is all very useful critique and advice. I feel really encouraged by you two, not so much attacked. I think the situation at Pimax is a bit more nuanced and complex - but Jeff's insights are very good and several times spot on. I do want to highlight that Pimax is absolutely product-driven, way more than any other department. That said, we're not Meta or Apple (yet!) - not just in terms of company size or our ability to produce tens of thousands of headsets before launch and stock them in warehouses around the world - but also in the way we push headset designs to the edge of what is possible with the technology available today. Regardless of that, Jeff definitely has many great points and there are many points we can learn from Meta or Apple. On the policy changes, those are made (and still being discussed in some areas). We didn't go over those in the earlier interview because we were already up 40 minutes, and because it's a relatively dry list - but they were in an email I shared earlier with Mark. I don't think this is suitable for a RUclips comment, but we are making changes to warranty and replacement headsets. But I also honestly believe the core issue wasn't the protocols themselves (or their ambiguity), but the problem that no feedback loop existed to properly monitor and police these policies and the cases they affected. (This actually is not too different from Jeff talking about data and statuses going green, amber, and red, as in: For company processes, systems > cases.)
@@SINfromPL I tried out the Pimax 8kx a few years ago and Even though I ended up returning my PCL (and 8kx btw), the software (now Pimax Play) has improved quite a bit. TBH, of my PCL lens had have better QC I def would be using these for msfs2020/2024. So. imho things have improved a lot but QC still needs improving.
Appreciate you commenting on the video for sure. I hope you can get everything headed in a better direction because the number of people that I'm seeing in the comments that are being turned off by all this is going to make that uphill climb that much steeper. I hope your company can take some of Jeff's suggestions to heart... especially the Marketing getting out over its skis so much which is leading to the "broken promises" that Jeff touched on. The VR industry needs Pimax, but Pimax needs to remember it needs customers just as much. Good luck!
I remember 4 or 5 years ago Kevin was going to seriously address the issue of poor customer service, and so this has been known about at pimax for years and not addressed properly. Telling people to go on discord or reddit is a poor solution, as many people like me don't use discord because of the terrible UI. You need better email/ website response system. Also, the issue with the crystal and 8kx isn't so much the lenses themselves, it's something else in relation to the lenses, which relates to prior production, that I'm amazed the many clever engineers didn't resolve in testing.
Jeff hit the nail on the head. Pimax need a “Just Culture”. People should be in fear of NOT owning up to mistakes and problems, rather than fearing owning up. Honesty and sharing must be rewarded with positivity and no penalisation. The sharing of problems and mistakes allows focus on solutions and for others to learn from mistakes. We use this culture in aviation. Even if it’s a silly mistake that you shouldn’t have done, you own up. Because there’s always a reason behind something occurring and it’s never one thing “pilot error”. It’s usually a layer of issues and contributing factors. Not always obvious either. This way we can pool knowledge of occurrences and not only learn from others mistakes but create training centred around the most common issues in the industry. Same needs to be done at Pimax. Learn from mistakes. Pool the knowledge of problems and errors to create focus on solutions and mitigation moving forward. With regard to the product line, it’s a mess. I’ve got a highly tech savvy group around me and we’re all having discussions as to what model to go for and how it would best suit us. There’s not enough focus on a core product. It’s spread thin at present and offers only confusion to the purchaser. No one I’ve spoken to has said out right which one they want. It’s always a discussion to see what the pros and cons are for each case. Make a really great first offering that is modular, sure. But do that behind closed doors and don’t try to sell it all now. Go core, then expand. If the core doesn’t work well cause you’ve spread your teams thin, the rest will be useless too and you have nothing but a bad product or a failed one.
THANK YOU for such an amazing post. This is exactly on point, and very well written! It is an honor to have such intelligent people like yourself watching my channel. As for which headset... Unfortunately with the new "Subscription Model" and Pimax's ability to remotely turn off your headset with the new Super Line... I'm hesitant to recommend those regardless of how good they are. I feel like the subscription model is just a way for Pimax to lessen how much it will cost them to refund defective products... "Oh I know you paid $1700 for the Super, but really the headset was only $999 of that because the other $700 was a subscription... plus since it is used, we can only refund you $300... please enjoy shipping that back to us on your dime." I know that might be an exaggeration... but the unfortunate thing is I think may people could see that actually being a real reply from them. Anyway, my recommendation to you if you want to stay with Pimax, get a Crystal Light now... go through the pain of sending it back and forth until you get a good one and then skip the super until they come to their senses and kill off that stupid subscription. Thanks for watching and thanks again for such a great comment.
Haha! I’m not sure you could call me intelligent… but thanks. I agree. I too am worried of the prospect of reduced refund value. I’m not a fan of the subscription model. Yes, why not have a payment plan system to allow people to enter at a lower initial cost and spread payments. But this? Not for me. Great channel. Keep them coming!
@@patricksmithsloth Well based on your original post, you are more intelligent than the average bear in my opinion. I certainly won't be recommending a Pimax with this subscription model in place, not sure if others will care or not so it might not matter. We will see.
Mostly Thanks Jeff... I certainly didn't have the expertise to cover this topic like Jeff does. I really appreciate you all watching such a long video. I sometimes worry my content is too long form, but there was nothing good to cut out as I thought all the info was relevant. Appreciate the comment too.
@ no you asked good questions Mark, was a team effort. I like the long form for what it is worth I get fed up with media outlets in my region (UK) just doing sound bite interviews etc without the reasons and rationale. I want to know the reasons, I want learn something from the discussion…. You guys are great
@@bigbangerz5856 Well thanks for watching, makes me feel good about doing this long form content knowing people enjoy it. Thank you for watching and the kind words!
As a dedicated VR enthusiast, I've been using Quest 2 and Quest 3 for a last few years, daily for several hours. I was so excited about the Crystal Light, but when the unit came, I was so disappointed, that I stopped using VR completely. Despite fixing all the ergonomics, the motion blurriness and lack of edge-to-edge clarity were major letdowns. This has significantly dampened my enthusiasm for VR. I'm really hoping that Pimax can address these issues with headsets because I truly believe in their potential. ...for the moment, my Crystal Light is a very expensive paperweight. 😞
@@GYGOtv because I gave it to my girlfriend 😅 and in my opinion, currently Meta Quest 3 is better option than Pimax. My trusty old Quest 2 has been pushed, thrown, and put through its paces, yet it still works like a champ.
@@RandomNoise Just steal it back when she isn't looking LOL... I agree with you about the Quest 3. I've been using mine as the replacement since I sent my OG Crystal back and I am really impressed how good it compares... noticeably lower clarity, but not by much. I think the Quest 3 is the best value in VR right now for sure!
And that is the problem, how many times have we had this same debate about Pimax... Nothing ever seems to really change, I hope this time it will, but honestly it won't surprise me if it doesn't. Thanks for watching.
Thank you Mark and Jeff. This session is a lesson for every company selling products to the public. A good tutorial to the management and whoever wants to become a top manager in any industry. I will start using this video as a mentor and consultant to start up companies and EMBA students.
Well thank you for watching and what an honor to think we put something together that might help future professionals! Does that mean I can be call "Professor Mark" now? Happy so many people are finding value in our video.
Very good presentation, thanks. I do hope that Pimax takes this on board and is successful. I recently bought a PCL and returned it for a refund because the lens were faulty and I wasn’t prepared to enter the lens replacement lottery. I preordered the Super OLED with pancake lens a few months ago but I’m not very confident that these are ever going to be released and/or will it be a quality product from day one. Time will tell I guess.
Thanks for watching! It is so disheartening because on paper the Pimax Lineup should be a no brainer... but in reality it is a dice roll if you get one that works or not. I hope they sort this all out as well as VR needs a company that is innovative like Pimax BUT they have to treat customers better or they won't make it in the long run.
I think any new VR headset that is released has some issues. I recall some with the HP Reverb G2 when it came out (i.e. the cable issue with AMD) and the Quest 3 had some of it's own. I think it's pretty common that initial batches can have issues that were not discovered during testing. That's why I'm always hesitant to buy right when released. That being said the HP Reverb G2 I still have has been working great for 4+ years. But now that headset has serious issues of no longer being supported/playable if OS updated.
@@stevenmay5703 For sure, it is how the company handles these issues that matters. HP was right on top of the new cable and made it super easy to get fixed for example. I don't fault companies if the product isn't 100%... it is just how they handle it that matters.
@@GYGOtv regarding the cable that might be true although I heard some have had struggles getting a cable. But I would say that HP no longer supporting the G2 or finding a way for existing customers to continue using the headset with WMR going away is also bad reflection of that company. I'm sure a lot G2 owners like me are upset at HP and Microsoft for doing what they did.
@@stevenmay5703 I think the anger is better directed at Microsoft personally, but yes HP could have tried to come up with something. Honestly with the Quest 3 out now, that is the best replacement IMO... going to pancake lenses is an amazing jump and maybe some people will even thank HP for making them get a newer headset? Maybe? Thanks for the comments.
Excellent video and discussion Mark and Jeff! You are the man Mark, and I’ve heard you bring up Jeff from time to time over the years so it’s great to finally hear from him and put a face to the legend. Thanks for sharing this info! To touch on the comments on Valve, I will say that their VR hardware and customer service has been by far the worst of any VR company that I’ve had or dealt with. And as you know, there are very few companies that I’ve not purchased or dealt with. One of the main reasons I purchased the Index was because of the people I know who raved about not just the Index, but Valve as a whole. But my experience has been so bad, that I wouldn’t buy the Deckard or whatever headset they have worked on, if it released today. I want to preface this by saying that I take care of my electronics, and especially VR equipment to an above and beyond manner. I’d go against anybody else out there in this regard. I received my Index with a faulty link cable right away, which RMA had them send me another one. Ive also had three different major issues with numerous controllers. All of which have been manufacturing issues. I’m currently on my 6th and 7th knuckle controllers within 2 years! Grip sensor has popped off when I wasn’t even using it, I’ve had the joystick not go forward (which makes games and menus impossible to play) and the ever so common stick drift. I even go as far as washing my hands before every VR session and remapping bindings so I don’t use the joystick unless necessary. And their customer service has been beyond frustrating and have flat out refused help at times. They’ve even gone as far as sending me a link to buy another product as their “help”, when it wasn’t even in stock, was within warranty and clearly a manufacturing issue! I don’t know if I’ve just had terrible luck or what, but as expensive as VR hardware is, I won’t buy another headset that relies on Valve lighthouse system. One of the major selling points of my Crystal were the inside out tracking and controllers that work great for casual VR. It goes to show that no company is without fault and they all have issues. It’s a very subjective experience with VR and the same can go with the companies. Sorry for the book. Cheers!
Don't be sorry for the "Book", that is what this channel is here for... open discussion and this is a great data point to add into it. I've always had good experience with Valve, but I only had the OG Vive and Vive Pro and some Knuckle controllers, all of which worked from the beginning so I've not needed any customer support. It was my understanding that they were very good so I'm glad you shared your experience here. I'd love to hear from other viewers about their experience with Valve too and find out if you just indeed have "terrible luck" or if this is a wider issue with Valve itself. Thanks for watching my friend.
That was very informative and in speaking to reps they are paying attention to this issue, they obviously have to. The challenge for the team is whether they can pare down any of the issues they have and rectify them to rebuild consumer trust and perception of the brand.
Hey Prickly, thanks for stopping by. Yes I hope they do but I fear they wont. I think Jeff spells out pretty well a good path forward. I personally think they hurt their cause even more with that stupid subscription deal. I guess we will see.
I know, we are still waiting on the Wireless, which was one of the original reasons I bought the Crystal... and we won't even talk anymore about the Wide FOV lenses.
I sincerely want pimax to succeed, I also feel it’s an uphill battle because they have a bad name unfortunately. I wanted to purchase crystal light but my confidence is too low. Maybe through time they will get a positive response from customers feeling they have confidence in quality and assurance if things go wrong ,pimax will react quickly and positively. A satisfied customer is worth their weight in gold . Word of mouth is how products sell.and company’s grow. Pimax have a great product when it works .
Agreed, the irony is they have a fantastic product (when it works) which is the hardest part... Good Customer Service and Policies should be the easy part but instead it seems like that is causing the most damage right now.
The overall way Pimax operates is an intentional strategic decision. I don't think it's just the marketing department getting out of hand. The company makes its money by selling new headsets, not supporting the ones it has already released. Pimax releases headset after headset after headset rapid fire. Just look at the litany of models and submodels that Pimax has put out. _Far_ more than any other company despite being much smaller than other companies in the industry. This behavior is enabled by a customer base of hardcore enthusiasts ("Pimaxians") who are willing to accept unfinished, unstable, and all too often defective products. Many of them will just fix it themselves (even when this requires redesign and crafting). Or bypass it. Or workaround it. Or make excuses for it. Some of them will complain bitterly _but will go on buying every new headset from Pimax anyway._ Anything for that sweet sweet cutting edge display. These people are enablers for Pimax. Without this kind of audience, Pimax wouldn't be able to get away with releasing one not-quite-finished product after another. So why should this tiger change its stripes? Versus apologizing over and over again, but continuing business as usual as long as this strategy continues to work.
As an owner of the original Pimax Crystal this is simply not true. I am fully supported and have received and continue to receive updates to improve my customer experience. In addition I am a customer who has had no issues with the hardware I purchased.
@@RonniePeterson Really? Could you buy one if you wanted to? The answer is you can't. This is an advertised feature of the Crystal which is the whole reason it has a battery (unless we're counting standalone which is also nowhere), and it's still not available nearly 2 years after launch as the Crystal has been in a state of near abandonment by Pimax for a while now. Pimax has instead chosen to release not one, but two other headsets ahead of it. Pimax also hasn't fixed the half second audio delay that's been there since launch either. Etc etc. Maybe you're lucky because you don't use or care about any of the parts of the Crystal that Pimax has abandoned. And maybe you were lucky and got a good unit which has never had any problems. But not everyone has been that lucky. You read a lot of posts of original Crystal owners talking about how abandoned they feel. I myself have owned two Crystals, both of which turned out to be defective. I was not one of the lucky ones like you. There are people who have bought Crystals (or Crystal Lights) and experienced smooth sailing, but it's a random die roll. This is part of my point about how Pimax operates.
@@SargonDragon I use the Crystal for Driving sims. Plugged in works perfectly. Any issue others have with batteries is never an issue for me. I don't think I have ever changed one!. Obviously if a product is not available you wait. How hard is that.
This was great. Pimax still thinks that looking after a very small handful of RUclipsrs with test products is all they need to do to build trust and get sales. Obviously that's failing hard. Sadly, if they were going to listen and make big changes, they already would have😢 I'm hopeful and root for them, but I'm also realistic and know how the world works 😢
Yes, I hate that now they see I'm a RUclipsr I'm getting the proper attention as a customer. Should have been a thing from the beginning IMO. Thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Hey Mark, do you know how do I fix my mouse cursor problem? My cursor doesn’t show up in the VR so I can’t play MSFS without it & Pimax is not helping me at all. Can you find out something for me please? Thanks
How many monitors are connected to the system? I encountered a similar issue while testing some games. To resolve it, I disconnected one of my two monitors, connected the main monitor via HDMI, and reset the NVIDIA settings to their default values.
Pimax is not just spreading themselves thin with headset models and variations, but they even tried to make a rather absurd console. I think that personality plays a big role in this. You have a spectrum of personalities ranging from conscientious people who care about every detail, to highly adventurous people who only care about the big picture and want a lot of new things. It seems to me that Pimax' management team leans too far into the latter direction, and they need to concern themselves more with 'little' details like manufacturability. Perhaps they need to add a more 'boring' person to the management team and then actually listen to that person. There's nothing wrong with management with big dreams, but at a certain point a company does need a little reality check, where they accept that not everything is realistically possible.
It does always seem that Pimax is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. I don't know how they really thought they could compete with Quest in the stand alone space and the handheld console I knew was dead from the beginning. Again Pimax, lean into your competitive advantage in the market (the Crystal Light for example) and quit with all the distraction products you try to make. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for watching, yes I was very happy Jeff was willing to share his expertise. I think a lot of people have enjoyed this video. Appreciate you watching.
I'm in the UK. Pimax have a warehouse that deal with returns in the Midlands. Their policy for returns in the UK is not reputable. Pimax insist the customer arranges return and chooses a courier to a cost limit. A reputable company handles that logistical process on the customer's behalf and pays for it. In my case Pimax customer service refused to pay to insure the return which again if they owned this process they would absorb that risk. I then returned via Royal Mail tracked service and my faulty Crystal Light got lost in the mail and now I own that loss of over £600.
And this is exactly why people are hesitant to buy Pimax... they need to build trust back but unfortunately I think for many former Pimax customers, it is too late.
@@GYGOtv pimax switching to subscription model should make everyone completly ignore the company. If they can lock your device because you are not paying, that means they will forever now have this capability to lock your headset. They did that about a year ago already when months after delivering the headset, they locked customer headset and asked them to pay some extra taxes, months after purchase. If the headset doesn't work 100% offline, then you don't own the headset.
@@SINfromPL Yep, I don't get the subscription deal... please tell me more about them basically extorting people for more money? I hadn't heard about that.
@@DS-ze7yc I can't believe how many of these stories I keep hearing... man I'm glad you got it back in the return window so you didn't have to fight with them like everyone else seems to. Thanks for the comment.
Excellent discussion and a master class. I’m a doctor, so I don’t understand a lot of the lingo, but it was well explained. I’m also an electronics enthusiast. Back 150 years, there were 2 kinds of doctors - generalists (GP’s) and pathologists to figure out what went wrong ! They were also close with the coroner ! I would love to know what the results of autopsies on all these replaced units. My thought is that, since these are very power hungry devices, that there is a component level issue in power delivery that is weak and prone to failure after, umm … 7 months.
Thanks for watching, It always amazes me how many highly talented and intelligent people watch my content. Appreciate you you stopping by and leaving a comment. I think maybe its a heating thing that takes its toll over the months, or heck could even be some firmware upgrade that started it. The battery issue happened right after a firmware update, which I did tell them when they were trying to trouble shoot. Either way I hope they figure it all out.
I was about to give Pimax a second chance with the Light but after reading about lens issues giving people headaches...I don't want to play that lottery.
Seems to be the growing feeling towards them right now. I hope they can sort it all out because the Crystal Light really is a unique product for VR right now. Thanks for watching.
I'm one of the lucky ones, I got a good PCL, I've been loving it for 3 months now but in the back of my mind, each time I use it I ask myself "Is this the day it will fail?" I love the visuals but don't trust the quality. I very much agree, I also want Pimax to succeed, but to be honest, dealing with them is a exercise in frustration. Also, their accessories are always out of stock, can't make money with "out of stock", ramp up production of these accessories, the top strap, Dmas speakers, Lighthouse face plate, etc. There's not even a PCL replacement cable available in their store, for the OG Crystal yes, for the light, no. The PCL is my 2nd Pimax HMD, my first was my very first HMD, the Pimax 4k, it was a horrible HMD but it still "WOW'ed" me as to what VR could be, I ordered a OG Vive 3 weeks after getting the Pimax 4k and have been a VR enthusiast since. Please Pimax, become what this video mentions, concentrate on one HMD and make it the best it can be quality wise, you release new headsets way too soon after a new model, the Light seems to be a success story, you should have ridden that wave, make it's quality better and in a year or two, then release the Super, after it's had time to be fully tested and design and production flaw worked out. PS: I still have that old Pimax 4k, in it's box, I take it out every so often as a VR nostalgia session and am always happy to put it back in it's box! 🤪
Great Post, thanks you for sharing. You hit the nail on the head with your statement "Is this the day it will fail?"... when that is even in a consumer's mind when they use your product, you have already lost. It is so funny because my Crystal was my newest headset and yet it is the one that failed first... hell I can still plug in my old DK2 and it will power up and work... Pimax, you have done the hard work getting a product designed that people want... just fix your QA/QC and Customer Service and you have won the battle.
@@GYGOtv So very much agree, if the PCL would have a reputation of something like the Reverb G2 (the one they keep comparing to), they would have won the battle, I also have a G2 and for myself, it has been a very reliable HMD along with all the other HMDs I have had over the years. The PCL is the only HMD I'm almost scared to use due to it's failure rate. But then again, we always hear from the people with problems, how many out there are actually happy with the thing thus never hearing from them?
@@jackr.749 Yes and if it was only a problem with customer service but low defect rate I think you would be ok... or if the defect rate was high but Customer Service took good care of people (Like the Intel reference in the video) that would be ok too. It is the combination of the high defect rate AND poor customer service that is causing such a problem. Kind of the perfect storm for Pimax. Thanks for watching.
I have both a Pimax Crystal and an HTC Vive XR Elite. I haven't had a customer service experience with Pimax to date. I did have an experience with HTC and it was probably the best customer service experience I've ever had. They have their service and system operating extremely well. Another big difference that left a major impression on me is that HTC shipped out an accessory kit with multiple facial interfaces and a top strap for free. Pimax charged me like $30.00 for a top strap. The XR Elite just worked out of the box including the stand alone and 5G wireless. I don't think the stand alone for the Crystal has any useable function to this day I think the wireless module might finally be available, but of course it will cost more money. I love the Crystals image quality and size and the DMAS headphones. Other than that the XR Elite is superior in every way. If I could only keep one headset I would keep the XR Elite over the Crystal.
Thanks for the comment. I've never dealt with HTC customer service but I had good customer service interactions with Both HP (for the G2's cable issue, and also a headphone issue) and Varjo which was amazing. Varjo is by far one of my favorite companies and they make the customer feel both important and listened to. Isn't it amazing how much customer service plays into how we view a company regardless of the tech they sell.
@@GYGOtv Everything discussed in the video was right on target and it can not be understated how important customer satisfaction is especially today with social media and influencers calling attention to those that fail miserably at it. The days of ghosting customers without consequence are over. Thank you for shining a spotlight on Pimax no matter how uncomfortable they find it, it's for their own good.
LOL. That's a long shot for sure. Not that HP has the greatest reputation either but my HP Reverb G2 gen 1 is still kicking and working pretty good. In fact for iRacing I prefer it to my Quest 3.
@@stevenmay5703 Ironically all my old headset still work, it was the newest one (the Crystal) that broke LOL. I loved the G2, but I think I like the Quest 3 more. Thanks for the comment.
11 дней назад
One thing I wanted to ask you Mark is, what happened to your Varjo Aero? I've heard you say many times how much you liked that headset. Maybe you already answered this question in one of your other videos I didn't see. I'm still using the Varjo Aero and just like you, I like it a lot! With that said, it would be nice to have an even more crisp image, more popping colors and better black levels. For that reason, I bought a Pimax Crystal Light some time ago but sadly had to return it due to issues where my eyes were really hurting from using it. It was like my eyes never managed to get things in focus no matter how I tried to adjust both the position of the headset on my head as well as the IPD. Going back to the Varjo Aero was like going onto a really nice vacation for my eyes after being in the Pimax CL... Still though, I'm tempted to buy a new headset down the road once there is one which I think will be a worthy upgrade. I've been thinking of the Somnium VR1 and I'm also very interested in the upcoming MeganeX Superlight 8K. The upcoming Pimax Super of course is very interesting too but sadly based on all issues discussed with Pimax both on your channel as well as elsewhere in combination with my own experience, it's highly unlikely I would spend any more money on a Pimax product at this point in time. Guess I'll hold off for now and carry on enjoying my Varjo Aero at least until the MeganeX Superlight 8K has been released and properly reviewed by trustworthy people such as yourself before I take any decision. I'm also waiting for the Nvidia 5000 series cards which will be very interesting. Especially with a headset such as the MeganeX with its high resolution. Will be so cool when the day comes where can both have and eat the cake looking at visuals and performance.
That is a fantastic question! I still have my Varjo Aero and I would have been using it once I sent my Crystal back except I've have had some questions about using the Quest Pro Controllers for Motion Compensation so I thought it was the perfect time to sort that out while I'm between headsets. My Varjo Aero is still my backup for sure and it is comforting to know I can always go back to it if need be. As for your CL issue, I bet you had defective lenses and that was causing the problems. I hear of lots of people having this issue lately. Anyway, the MeganeX is looking more and more like my next headset and I'm very excited to "see" how it looks. Thanks for watching.
Yep, we have heard this same thing for years now... it takes a lot to fix a culture that operates like this... we will see if they can change or not I guess.
I ordered the pimax crystal super and i hav to wait till next march - the good news is i am building a homecockpit and upgrading my pc so i can handle the crystal super - but true jeff is speaking right .anouncing a product and making customers wait 5 months for it is not a good move i think
I think Jeff was right about a lot of things. If I were Pimax I'd be asking him to consult and get the company on the right track. I guess we will see if they can achieve that on their own.
@@GYGOtv come on man, pimax does not need help.. this is their way of doing business. It's a chinese company, with non-chinese guy as public spoke person. They made a kickstarter not too long ago for crappy clone of Nintendo Switch on Android, which has already been discountinued, and the multiple VR headsets promised for that Pimax Portal has also never been truly released. In my opinion you always give too much cred for Pimax. Oh we need Pimax. No we don't. You "simmer" guys just desire extreme resolutions, and that's pretty much the only thing pimax could brute-force their way in. I've been watching the company since the very beginning, their first product being Pimax 4k, which was just a chinese clone of Open Sourced Oculus Rift DK1. Immediatly back then the dishonesty started with calling it "4K" because of the typical chinese math.
@@GYGOtv to be honest with you the more the time passes the more stressed i am that the device i will receive will be faulty. and than i will have to go with what you went trough which is very horrible. I mean from one hand they make the best VR in the world undoubtedly but on the other hand its a gamble Either it works or it doesn't and if it don't well shit . I'm not Shure if i should ask for a refund and then buy it once its released to the public and then i see the public opinion on it and then i order it. or i should just wait and hope for the best.
Great video Mark and Jeff ! Thank you for an open and non Pimax bashing take on the issue. I agree that I want Pimax to be successful, we all benefit from that.
Send them over the link :) Thank you, yes Jeff has amazing knowledge and his willingness to share it is unheard of. Truly one of the great guys in our industry! Thanks for the comment.
@@Panzerlangsure it is niche but to me that is what driving the industry and for all different companies do better in the long run where we all benefit from. I’m not sure where we are with Somnium right now in terms of quality and just delivering what is promissed. If and when they are meeting the expected standard then it is probably well worth it even a lot more expensive. I’m not waiting on a HMD that gets broken after a couple of weeks because it is 1000$ cheaper because it still costs 1500$ and turn out to be an expensive paperweight. A matter perspective I guess
Not sure what you mean, the Super is like $1700 and you can get the base model VR1 for around $2000, with the MeganeX at $1900 so All pretty close in my opinion. Yes the Super has more features... but what good are all the extra features if the thing doesn't work?
@@GYGOtv I stand corrected, thanks! I think though that more fair would be comparison between the eye tracked version of VR1 (2500 euros without VAT) and Super. I waited for the VR1 for a long time but gave up after price reveal; preordered Super.
@@pertsonvelts1699 I've kind of lost interest in Eye Tracking as it seems Dynamic Foveated Rendering might fall to the wayside (see www.reddit.com/user/mbucchia/comments/) I think a better option will be to just brute force the graphics with the 5090 so I'm not as worried about having Eye Tracking as much now. Now obviously if you get eye tracking for the same price as one without then that is a bonus... but will the cheaper one (Super vs. VR1) actually work or are you going to run into QA problems with it too? I hope by the time the Super comes out, they have all this QA sorted for everyone who got one, It really sounds like amazing tech if it all works and doesn't break.
I just want a better 8kx. Same FOV with better qled panels and glass lenses, smaller form factor, more comfortable headgear. With the proven lighthouse tracking and save money on inside out tracking. Use dual cables for the bandwidth. Sell it for about $1000. Maybe the super will fit the bill. But with Pimax track record, I'm sure they'll screw it up. Maybe a BSB 2 with more pov and adjustable IPD?
I mean we all want that magical headset, I would only want OLED because I'm an OLED Snob! The unfortunate thing is the Crystal Light actually is a great experience even as is. The problem is you can't be sure you will get a working one when you buy it. Even if they make the headset with the specs you say, it still needs to work and not be defective like you mention. I know I'm just preaching to the choir here, it is just so frustrating to watch what his going on at Pimax. Thanks for the comment.
@@GYGOtv I heard rumor that if you kneel down on both knees and pray, often time you ended up with the best quality lenses or headset. It does works, trust me!
Yep, I agree. Even with the 8kx, I have USB connection issues. I also went through the period of them putting out firmware that broke the headsets. I learned never to update their software or try the latest headset. I'll wait till the Super has been out for about 6 months before I'll even consider it. Thanks for publishing your real life experiences and talking to the Pimax folks. I hope they listen to y'alls feedback.
@@Hwy929 I hope they listen too... sure would like to see them turn all this around and offer a great headset that people can have faith will work when thy buy it. I guess we will see.
The problem is that they are very greedy as a business model, they release a product prematurely and then half way without addressing the faults and short-comings of the newly released product, they announce the next product and focus on releasing that instead. The loop continues with with bad quality control and subpar customer service. At this point, I don't think they care, like many other Chinese businesses I have dealt with, they grab your money and bye bye.
That is how I felt dealing with them before the video came out. It was like, sorry you are having problems... if you pay us a little more then we might be able to help you better. That was the thing that made me so mad. They certainly have a reputation that will take a lot of effort to turn around. Thanks for watching.
@@GYGOtv Beware that they could just be shining you on. I don't take the position that Pimax is an evil company and everything they say is a lie or whatever. But I'd point out that the company has been caught a number of times in apparent deliberate premeditated lies. Such as when they showed in a video interview with MRTV 2 years ago what they claimed was a working 12K prototype that was doing 6K per eye at 90Hz. It's Jaap's job to sooth and persuade, and he's very good at it. He certainly seems very sincere. But I've met people before who seemed perfectly and absolutely convincingly sincere when they were never actually being honest at all. Some people are very good at putting on a convincing face. And so how can we know? Some of Pimax's actions and even some of Jaap's own actions I've seen paint a different picture in ways that are very hard to handwave away as not having been deliberate dishonesty. They're not fully innocent. But I'm not convinced they're fully bad guys either. At the end of the day, they need to prove what they say with actions rather than cheap words. This company has not in any way earned being trusted at its word, no matter how convincingly that word is spoken.
The specs are awesome, but I simply can't afford to spend a ton of money on a lemon. It should not be a lottery as to whether you get a good unit or not. BTW, excellent show. You touched on issues that are very relevant to troubleshooting QC problems, not addressed in other podcasts.
Genuingly learned a couple things for my job and first time hearing the quote "In God we trust, but everyone else has to [provide] data." which should be a mantra everywhere
I've seen other brands turn around their bad QC and reputation (xiaomi is one that comes to mind of a big brand, in the sim world, moza and simagic went from mediocre products to top products nowadays) however it took them years. I hope pimax survives enough to see that change, for the sake of competition in the market at the very least.
I would love to see them join that list and that was one reason we did this video. BUT they have to want to change AND be willing to put in the hard work to do it. From their track record this seems unlikely, but I hope this time is different. Thanks for the comment.
I ordered a crystal light a couple of months ago and when i received it and tested it 5 weeks after order i realised it was faulty, lens and contrast issues with with screens,dead pixels. I couldn't even get answers to simple questions, they never once directly answered over 20 questions over 2 weeks of daily messages. I simply wanted to swap my order to the super and if this was possible and i just couldn't get a straight answer, so now i have returned the light, i still don't know if i'm going to get a refund or a replacement of a headset i don't want anymore. It's so frustrating trying to communicate with them and they have nearly a £1000 of my money. I have insisted they swap my order for the super but the more i read i really think i should just get a refund and see how everyone else gets on in the future with the super.
And this is exactly what pisses me off!!! I was in the same boat, and if I hadn't made that video I would still be in that boat. They need to treat EVERYONE well, not just the people who have a platform to stand on. I hope it works out and this is exactly why I can't get behind Pimax right now. Thanks for the comment.
@@GYGOtv No, thankyou. It's good to be listened too. I'm still really torn with a decision but with the looks of it i don't actually have a choice, i'm just at the mercy of what they decide or what their system actually gives me in the end, it could be either a replacement a order for a super or £900 lol. I have given up and will just see what happens. I've got a feeling they will end up saying my package has been lost because on their returns instructions it insists the package isn't singed for on their end. Will end up going through insurance or something. My heart wants to give it another chance and see if i get a "good one" but my head is saying refund, save money and hope they turn things round with the Super which on paper makes the most sense but from what i can gather the super will be their win or bust product.
@@MrAnthonyfrench I so feel your pain. I felt the exact same way on my deal. I was sure they would send me a defective replacement and then when I mention that to them... they would say well since it is out of warranty now you will have to pay an extra $XXXX to have it replaced again. I already planned for it to go into the trashcan at that point. Honestly I still think that might have happened if I hadn't made my video but we will never know. I sincerely hope yours works out in your favor, please keep me posted.
Whilst they are making money they won't fix a thing. Why should they? They're making money. Customers are good for new business and each year as people turn eighteen and become financially independent the markets have an endless supply of new customers so new product will always be sold to the unsuspecting and nothing will change until no one buys anything again from that supplier. Hit the pocket, hit the problem. It's really that simple. But too many people are stupid enough not to pay heed.
I don't think people are stupid, we all just want the experience that a headset with those specs can provide. So in that pursuit, we justify Pimax by saying to ourselves... O' it is just a vocal minority... These things can't be that bad, people are just exaggerating... or any other justification we can come up with to reinforce our desire to have a Pimax. Then the reality hits when you headset fails and we realize, damn I guess everyone was right. They will eventually run out of goodwill out there and if they keep going down this path they will eventually fail... it is just a matter of how long that will take. I personally think they are already on the downhill so they need to do something fast if they truly want to turn things around. More likely they will just ride it into the ground until they close shop. We will see.
@@GYGOtv Whilst I can see that you are being diplomatic, I have to say... no mate... there are stupid and naive people in the world. They will be caught out by Pimax and other companies that put profit before quality. Stupidity does exist and it is not the sole preserve of the education deficient. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... there is enough info out there for Pimax to have started to crumble already but people are still listening to influencers and the product is still being bought. Like I said, each year brings a new generation of foolish people with plenty of money to the market place.
@@GYGOtv I can't agree with you... whilst I am not saying that everyone is stupid... there are people out there who will not listen to good advice. I have learned never to take a good review and to always look at the bad ones to see if they have any substance because you cannot take positive promotion on face value anymore.
Pimax needs a proper EU representation, run by a EU citizen, not a Chinese person who doesn't understand the culture and laws. Pimax will never do such a thing because they're not stupid and know about EU consumer protection laws. If Pimax ever gets a full fledged EU office, with local stock and repair service, THEN and only then can you be sure they fixed their sh1t.
@@GYGOtv China is where Japan was in the 70s and 80s of last century. Which Japanese company, a household brand back then in electronics, still actually exists and thrives? Only Sony. Sony was also the only company that would put a local Western CEO in their local offices. All other Japanese electronics companies were afraid of this and insisted on Japanese CEOs they shipped out. Now they are seriously reduced in market presence or no longer exist.
@@bakakafka4428 LOL ya Sony was what came to mind and then you mentioned them, but honestly I'm not an expert in this area so I take your word for it. So my point, Pimax COULD do what Sony did and have a chance right? Unlikely but possible wouldn't you agree?
I have crystal cause of eye tracking, also going for super qd, 57ppd if binocular overlap will be +- as on 50ppd. Not interested in light. I am pretty sure they now dont focus too much on that oled version, but they have to focus on oled a bit cause when new larger oled panels come out, to be rdy.
There is no argument that they have great tech for sure... the problem is will the headset you get actually function or will it be faulty. These are too expensive to take that risk for many people. For those that do, I hope you all get great working headsets!
I’ve pre ordered the Super, despite the warnings, on the basis that you want this company to work and I think they will make it work having watched their responses and your interviews
I ordered one 8 days ago and it still hasn't been shipped yet. When it eventually does it's going to take a further 4 weeks to get to Australia. Totally pissed off with them He was obviously full of crap, if they can't even get shipping sorted. I ordered it a few days before I ordered my $6000 laptop to power it. My laptop will be here next week and that has to be built. My laptop is coming from Australia, but it's from Perth. A long haul flight with 1 stop. just a few hour shorter than coming from China. Why should it take more than 5 weeks longer? Not a good start to my pimax experience.
Sorry to hear that... I feel your pain, that is how my replacement has gone too. I hope when you get it, it works right out of the box with no issues because it is AMAZING when you get a good one. Just be sure to double check everything within that 10 day (maybe 14 day now) window so you don't have to fight like I did to get something fixed. Good Luck and thanks for the comment.
In my case it did ship and was magically delivered yesterday and within the stated 2 to 3 week window when ordered. It just appears the tracking system/link was never updated for me so I never new it was shipped. So perhaps that might be the case for you. Did you get it delivered?
Almost an hour of talk, and I don't think "CHINA" was mentioned even once? This is a Chinese company, products Made In China. They don't have legal access to global Steam, they can't even get on RUclips, Reddit or Discord without VPN. I'm sorry, but you sir as a "nobody" (no offense) knows how the company should run etc, and you're just a customer, then what does it say about the company? It doesn't take a genius to realize any of the things you guys talked about. This is just classic chinesium we're dealing with. Anyone who has done a lot of business with China will sooner or later come to conclusion that this is all just a cultural difference. Also, praising Steam for refund policies is wrong, because they fought against it, till European Union forced them to. You think they are so pro-customer, when in reality everything they do & offer is designed to tie you into their version of walled garden. If you use any of Steam features, like Workshop, no other platform can ever access it. So your games become Steam exclusive, or other platforms suffer from lack of parity.
You are welcome to your opinion, and there certainly are cultural differences that are likely at play here but that doesn't mean Pimax can't be different... it will just be difficult IMO. Not sure if I'd say someone who did this at Amazon for 12 years and was connected with some of the biggest product launches they had doesn't know how a company should run... but whatever. As for Steam, you can say what you want but THEY ARE the standard in the digital game marketplace... How many other companies have tried to launch their own platforms and failed by comparison. But again you can look at it however you want. Thanks for watching.
Agreed, the "buck stops here" when you get to the CEO! According to Jaap, Robin is very on board with "fixing Pimax", but we all know talk is cheap so we will see what happens. Thanks for the comment.
The best solution is to hire Jeff Weaver. Too bad, Jeff doesn't speak Mandarin since Pimax seems to only hire outsiders that speak both English and Mandarin. I agreed that Valve and Amazon have the best customer services, I can't remember how many times I gotten $5 or $10 credits off of Amazon delaying my shipment lol...or they even sometimes let me keep the product and refund. Valve allowing you refund the game up to a certain amount of game play time is a cool idea. In regard to Pimax, I think it's just hiring the right people. They should hire people that know what they're doing rather than those they're comfortable to work with. If you limit to just people that need to speak Mandarin and English, then the pool of outside talents get smaller. Maybe the very people that do the hiring aren't talented enough to spot out talents? I seen they let go of two English speakers a year or so ago. I wonder if there was any problem internally. I thought they did a fine job speaking about the products like Josh. I don't know about the other guy, but Josh is a talented marketer. Of course, marketing wasn't the issue...it's the product manager...the one that decide when it is ready. The idea to have so many different variation in a product may be coming from the CEO Robin. Focusing on a single product is definitely a better path, I agreed. However, if Pimax has the financial resource to hire a lot of people and have them work on different product, it works for me too. I think the different variation of products from OG Crystal to Crystal Light was sort of a learn experience as you go. They learned what people wanted...but if they solely focus on just the OG...I think it's still wouldn't be a great product due to its weight and size. So, they transform it into a lighter one and now even smaller size with the Super. The different variation of Super is fine because of the optical lenses engine replacement. Of course, if something didn't work as expected, it requires better quality control and communications.
Another great comment from you, thanks for that. I personally think Pimax needs to get the quality control in line before they do anything else! Selling 100 defective headsets just makes 100 people who will never buy your product again. Already we can see potential new customers hesitant to buy Pimax... and currently it doesn't really seem like Pimax is doing much to develop or regain trust in the marketplace. I guess we will see what happens long term but I hope we aren't having these same discussions in say 2 years when the 12k comes out.
So you think problem are the people and not leadership? Why Jeff? They had Kevin, a random guy who claims to have worked at NASA - only to switch working on vr toys?
@@reptilexcq2 why would you? SweViver after he got employed PROMISED to remain independent and continue running his channel. He stopped nearly immediatly, and for years it's been an outlet for Pimax propaganda. These guys are not your friends. These are pimax employees, doing everything to keep their job, meaning = following pimax leadership orders, even if each one of them individually want company to operate differently. But SweViver never quit, so he is happier to take their money, and tell you how awesome pimax headsets are.
@@SINfromPLI think Jeff spelled out what the problems are... now if you don't think he has the experience to have an opinion then that is up to you. I'm not sure why you are attacking a guy who is just offering advice to Pimax? I'm kind of confused by your comments.
I think the problem with MS Flight Sim is the arrogance so I don't think they would listen even if he tried. They didn't listen to much of the early feedback and felt they could implement streaming despite gaming services like Stadia failing because the tech just isn't as good as local installs. They need to be humbled before they will listen to anyone... maybe that is happening now. Thanks for the comment.
Jaap assured me they would make this right, so I'm sure it is in process. They paid for the shipping back of the old headset, which I sent on Nov. 27th. As of right now, I'm still waiting for a replacement Crystal Light and I haven't seen any refund so nothing tangible has really changed yet. We will see if anything ever gets taken care of but honestly I'm not holding by breath. I'm sure it eventually will, I just don't know when.
@@GYGOtv There's a 100% chance Pimax will fix this for a high profile case being posted on RUclips. Pimax has a history of focusing resources to resolve cases where it is being publicly embarrassed. The problem is all the other people this also happens to that don't have a voice.
@@SargonDragon I'm trying to fight for everyone else, I totally agree that without my channel I wouldn't have gotten this result no matter what they say. I tried everything before making that video and nothing worked until the other video went live. I'd love to see changes at Pimax but I'm not holding my breath at this point.
@@GYGOtv I appreciate that. But at the same time, I'm concerned that Pimax may be using your channel to perform very effective damage control, too. I see so many comments on videos where Jaap responds and people are swayed to turn it all around and see it all as a net positive for Pimax, actually reinforcing their confidence in the company instead. And I want to remind people to remember how we got here. And that words are cheap.
@@SargonDragon All we can do is inform them of the situation (and what has been an ongoing situation for years and years at this point). The one thing I've learned is that if someone is dead set on buying a Pimax they will find the justification for it whatever it is (Jaaps replies, other positive reviewers, or whatever). These videos are not for them, these videos are for people who honestly might be thinking of a Pimax and are open minded for the facts. I'm certainly not giving Pimax another dollar unless I see some honest change and I can tell you that Subscription Model is exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for. I know for me, I had heard all the talk of change when the OG Crystal was coming out and I thought... I should give Pimax a chance... You see how that worked out.
Hi, It's very unfortunate that you had to make this video, the culture at Pimax is unbelievable. They have great ideas but the execution is how to say it.....the customers have a right to get a good VR headset and NOT a roll of the dice as their money is also good. Their culture makes it hard to buy their products. If they had confidence in them they would give a 3 years warranty. I bought something else and it's not Pimax.
I really didn't want to make the original video because I know this can do a lot of damage to a company. I tried everything to work it out behind closed doors but when they tried to charge me that extra $339 I was dumbfounded. I'm pro-customer so that was the point I knew this story had to be made public. I hope Pimax can turn things around as they have a good product... when it works. Thanks for the comment!
Looks like Pimax is going to be their own worst competition after today’s announcement. Flabbergasted about their decision to announce and pre-sell yet another headset. They are going to put themselves out of business…fascinating to watch.
My Pimax Crystal, i need ever 2hours for this Headset. PC off,on, Headset Off, on Cable Plugin ect... The Bug is With the VR image? Yaw2 and Pimax Crystal are a Misstake. Pimax next Gen Will definitely get better. But YawVR this cant better, the Team is too little.
Pimax will *NEVER* get better, stop kidding yourself. They've been around for over 5 years now fairly mainstream and their QC issues are only getting worse from "was bad from the get go". They will crash and burn and honestly, I hope so. Let them burn out and a new higher tier headset maker come along and take its place.
@@Munky332 Unfortunately for Pimax, this is how a lot of people feel about them. Certainly an uphill battle that they have earned themselves. Thanks for the comment.
I am in the market for a new set of VR. I am using the Varjo Aero now, and think the Pimax Super looks interesting. I will for sure look closer at them after release and some good reviews.
I think the Super should be amazing as a product. We will see if the Quality Control and Customer Service has improved by then, I hope it has! Thanks for the comment.
Jaap might be sincere but he also knows his job is on the line if he pushes too hard, so guess what he won't do. Note, "pushing hard" in china wouldn't open a well-greased door in the west.
If I felt the company wasn't sincere, I wouldn't work here. It's not like I have nowhere else to go. I believe in Pimax, in the company and our products. We make mistakes and we'll improve. I don't think it's about being afraid to push too hard, but reminding and helping the company to grow as a team. Also, I'm far from the only one doing that.
@@JaapGrolleman you are talking in exactly the same way as Kevin Henderos and Joshua Son - your Pimax colleagues who quit the company and announced it in an interview during CES 2024. You are not an external observer, you are just a talking head representing the company interest, not anyone else.
@SINfromPL I'm not Joshua, I'm not Kevin. I know what my role is and I focus on that. Other than that I don't want to compare. But to put me off as some talking head I think is pretty offensive.
@@JaapGrolleman You literally are a talking head. That's all you do to the outside world. Just like SweViver. He also promised everything you have said already multiple times. It doesn't matter you are not Kevin, Joshua or Sweviver. You are representing Pimax interests just like all of them before you.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you Mark and Jeff, for taking the time to sit down like this. I watched it all and took notes, also to share internally (and I'm sure many people at Pimax will watch the whole video). We all want virtual reality and Pimax to succeed so this is all very useful critique and advice. I feel really encouraged by you two, not so much attacked. I think the situation at Pimax is a bit more nuanced and complex - but Jeff's insights are very good and several times spot on. I do want to highlight that Pimax is absolutely product-driven, way more than any other department. That said, we're not Meta or Apple (yet!) - not just in terms of company size or our ability to produce tens of thousands of headsets before launch and stock them in warehouses around the world - but also in the way we push headset designs to the edge of what is possible with the technology available today. Regardless of that, Jeff definitely has many great points and there are many points we can learn from Meta or Apple.
On the policy changes, those are made (and still being discussed in some areas). We didn't go over those in the earlier interview because we were already up 40 minutes, and because it's a relatively dry list - but they were in an email I shared earlier with Mark. I don't think this is suitable for a RUclips comment, but we are making changes to warranty and replacement headsets. But I also honestly believe the core issue wasn't the protocols themselves (or their ambiguity), but the problem that no feedback loop existed to properly monitor and police these policies and the cases they affected. (This actually is not too different from Jeff talking about data and statuses going green, amber, and red, as in: For company processes, systems > cases.)
Very thoughtful reply imho.
Very dry pasta response. This could be posted in 2020 and and still nothing has improved.
@@SINfromPL I tried out the Pimax 8kx a few years ago and Even though I ended up returning my PCL (and 8kx btw), the software (now Pimax Play) has improved quite a bit. TBH, of my PCL lens had have better QC I def would be using these for msfs2020/2024. So. imho things have improved a lot but QC still needs improving.
Appreciate you commenting on the video for sure. I hope you can get everything headed in a better direction because the number of people that I'm seeing in the comments that are being turned off by all this is going to make that uphill climb that much steeper. I hope your company can take some of Jeff's suggestions to heart... especially the Marketing getting out over its skis so much which is leading to the "broken promises" that Jeff touched on. The VR industry needs Pimax, but Pimax needs to remember it needs customers just as much. Good luck!
I remember 4 or 5 years ago Kevin was going to seriously address the issue of poor customer service, and so this has been known about at pimax for years and not addressed properly. Telling people to go on discord or reddit is a poor solution, as many people like me don't use discord because of the terrible UI. You need better email/ website response system. Also, the issue with the crystal and 8kx isn't so much the lenses themselves, it's something else in relation to the lenses, which relates to prior production, that I'm amazed the many clever engineers didn't resolve in testing.
Jeff hit the nail on the head. Pimax need a “Just Culture”. People should be in fear of NOT owning up to mistakes and problems, rather than fearing owning up. Honesty and sharing must be rewarded with positivity and no penalisation. The sharing of problems and mistakes allows focus on solutions and for others to learn from mistakes. We use this culture in aviation. Even if it’s a silly mistake that you shouldn’t have done, you own up. Because there’s always a reason behind something occurring and it’s never one thing “pilot error”. It’s usually a layer of issues and contributing factors. Not always obvious either. This way we can pool knowledge of occurrences and not only learn from others mistakes but create training centred around the most common issues in the industry. Same needs to be done at Pimax. Learn from mistakes. Pool the knowledge of problems and errors to create focus on solutions and mitigation moving forward.
With regard to the product line, it’s a mess. I’ve got a highly tech savvy group around me and we’re all having discussions as to what model to go for and how it would best suit us. There’s not enough focus on a core product. It’s spread thin at present and offers only confusion to the purchaser. No one I’ve spoken to has said out right which one they want. It’s always a discussion to see what the pros and cons are for each case. Make a really great first offering that is modular, sure. But do that behind closed doors and don’t try to sell it all now. Go core, then expand. If the core doesn’t work well cause you’ve spread your teams thin, the rest will be useless too and you have nothing but a bad product or a failed one.
THANK YOU for such an amazing post. This is exactly on point, and very well written! It is an honor to have such intelligent people like yourself watching my channel. As for which headset... Unfortunately with the new "Subscription Model" and Pimax's ability to remotely turn off your headset with the new Super Line... I'm hesitant to recommend those regardless of how good they are. I feel like the subscription model is just a way for Pimax to lessen how much it will cost them to refund defective products... "Oh I know you paid $1700 for the Super, but really the headset was only $999 of that because the other $700 was a subscription... plus since it is used, we can only refund you $300... please enjoy shipping that back to us on your dime." I know that might be an exaggeration... but the unfortunate thing is I think may people could see that actually being a real reply from them. Anyway, my recommendation to you if you want to stay with Pimax, get a Crystal Light now... go through the pain of sending it back and forth until you get a good one and then skip the super until they come to their senses and kill off that stupid subscription. Thanks for watching and thanks again for such a great comment.
Haha! I’m not sure you could call me intelligent… but thanks. I agree. I too am worried of the prospect of reduced refund value. I’m not a fan of the subscription model. Yes, why not have a payment plan system to allow people to enter at a lower initial cost and spread payments. But this? Not for me. Great channel. Keep them coming!
@@patricksmithsloth Well based on your original post, you are more intelligent than the average bear in my opinion. I certainly won't be recommending a Pimax with this subscription model in place, not sure if others will care or not so it might not matter. We will see.
Another excellent video with good in depth discussion on the topic, thank you Mark and Jeff
Mostly Thanks Jeff... I certainly didn't have the expertise to cover this topic like Jeff does. I really appreciate you all watching such a long video. I sometimes worry my content is too long form, but there was nothing good to cut out as I thought all the info was relevant. Appreciate the comment too.
@ no you asked good questions Mark, was a team effort. I like the long form for what it is worth I get fed up with media outlets in my region (UK) just doing sound bite interviews etc without the reasons and rationale. I want to know the reasons, I want learn something from the discussion…. You guys are great
@@bigbangerz5856 Well thanks for watching, makes me feel good about doing this long form content knowing people enjoy it. Thank you for watching and the kind words!
As a dedicated VR enthusiast, I've been using Quest 2 and Quest 3 for a last few years, daily for several hours.
I was so excited about the Crystal Light, but when the unit came, I was so disappointed, that I stopped using VR completely.
Despite fixing all the ergonomics, the motion blurriness and lack of edge-to-edge clarity were major letdowns.
This has significantly dampened my enthusiasm for VR.
I'm really hoping that Pimax can address these issues with headsets because I truly believe in their potential.
...for the moment, my Crystal Light is a very expensive paperweight. 😞
Thanks for watching and the comment. Just wondering why you don't go back to the Quest 3? Did you have a good experience with it?
@@GYGOtv because I gave it to my girlfriend 😅
and in my opinion, currently Meta Quest 3 is better option than Pimax.
My trusty old Quest 2 has been pushed, thrown, and put through its paces, yet it still works like a champ.
@@RandomNoise Just steal it back when she isn't looking LOL... I agree with you about the Quest 3. I've been using mine as the replacement since I sent my OG Crystal back and I am really impressed how good it compares... noticeably lower clarity, but not by much. I think the Quest 3 is the best value in VR right now for sure!
I'm not gonna buy Pimax, but I'm also not going to buy anything from Meta... I guess BigScreen is the only option left?
Pimax has to want to change and I'm not paying to be a beta tester for them.
And that is the problem, how many times have we had this same debate about Pimax... Nothing ever seems to really change, I hope this time it will, but honestly it won't surprise me if it doesn't. Thanks for watching.
Thank you Mark and Jeff. This session is a lesson for every company selling products to the public. A good tutorial to the management and whoever wants to become a top manager in any industry. I will start using this video as a mentor and consultant to start up companies and EMBA students.
Well thank you for watching and what an honor to think we put something together that might help future professionals! Does that mean I can be call "Professor Mark" now? Happy so many people are finding value in our video.
Very good presentation, thanks. I do hope that Pimax takes this on board and is successful. I recently bought a PCL and returned it for a refund because the lens were faulty and I wasn’t prepared to enter the lens replacement lottery. I preordered the Super OLED with pancake lens a few months ago but I’m not very confident that these are ever going to be released and/or will it be a quality product from day one. Time will tell I guess.
Thanks for watching! It is so disheartening because on paper the Pimax Lineup should be a no brainer... but in reality it is a dice roll if you get one that works or not. I hope they sort this all out as well as VR needs a company that is innovative like Pimax BUT they have to treat customers better or they won't make it in the long run.
I think any new VR headset that is released has some issues. I recall some with the HP Reverb G2 when it came out (i.e. the cable issue with AMD) and the Quest 3 had some of it's own. I think it's pretty common that initial batches can have issues that were not discovered during testing. That's why I'm always hesitant to buy right when released. That being said the HP Reverb G2 I still have has been working great for 4+ years. But now that headset has serious issues of no longer being supported/playable if OS updated.
@@stevenmay5703 For sure, it is how the company handles these issues that matters. HP was right on top of the new cable and made it super easy to get fixed for example. I don't fault companies if the product isn't 100%... it is just how they handle it that matters.
@@GYGOtv regarding the cable that might be true although I heard some have had struggles getting a cable. But I would say that HP no longer supporting the G2 or finding a way for existing customers to continue using the headset with WMR going away is also bad reflection of that company. I'm sure a lot G2 owners like me are upset at HP and Microsoft for doing what they did.
@@stevenmay5703 I think the anger is better directed at Microsoft personally, but yes HP could have tried to come up with something. Honestly with the Quest 3 out now, that is the best replacement IMO... going to pancake lenses is an amazing jump and maybe some people will even thank HP for making them get a newer headset? Maybe? Thanks for the comments.
Excellent video and discussion Mark and Jeff! You are the man Mark, and I’ve heard you bring up Jeff from time to time over the years so it’s great to finally hear from him and put a face to the legend. Thanks for sharing this info!
To touch on the comments on Valve, I will say that their VR hardware and customer service has been by far the worst of any VR company that I’ve had or dealt with. And as you know, there are very few companies that I’ve not purchased or dealt with.
One of the main reasons I purchased the Index was because of the people I know who raved about not just the Index, but Valve as a whole. But my experience has been so bad, that I wouldn’t buy the Deckard or whatever headset they have worked on, if it released today.
I want to preface this by saying that I take care of my electronics, and especially VR equipment to an above and beyond manner. I’d go against anybody else out there in this regard. I received my Index with a faulty link cable right away, which RMA had them send me another one. Ive also had three different major issues with numerous controllers. All of which have been manufacturing issues. I’m currently on my 6th and 7th knuckle controllers within 2 years! Grip sensor has popped off when I wasn’t even using it, I’ve had the joystick not go forward (which makes games and menus impossible to play) and the ever so common stick drift. I even go as far as washing my hands before every VR session and remapping bindings so I don’t use the joystick unless necessary.
And their customer service has been beyond frustrating and have flat out refused help at times. They’ve even gone as far as sending me a link to buy another product as their “help”, when it wasn’t even in stock, was within warranty and clearly a manufacturing issue!
I don’t know if I’ve just had terrible luck or what, but as expensive as VR hardware is, I won’t buy another headset that relies on Valve lighthouse system. One of the major selling points of my Crystal were the inside out tracking and controllers that work great for casual VR. It goes to show that no company is without fault and they all have issues. It’s a very subjective experience with VR and the same can go with the companies. Sorry for the book. Cheers!
Don't be sorry for the "Book", that is what this channel is here for... open discussion and this is a great data point to add into it. I've always had good experience with Valve, but I only had the OG Vive and Vive Pro and some Knuckle controllers, all of which worked from the beginning so I've not needed any customer support. It was my understanding that they were very good so I'm glad you shared your experience here. I'd love to hear from other viewers about their experience with Valve too and find out if you just indeed have "terrible luck" or if this is a wider issue with Valve itself. Thanks for watching my friend.
That was very informative and in speaking to reps they are paying attention to this issue, they obviously have to. The challenge for the team is whether they can pare down any of the issues they have and rectify them to rebuild consumer trust and perception of the brand.
Hey Prickly, thanks for stopping by. Yes I hope they do but I fear they wont. I think Jeff spells out pretty well a good path forward. I personally think they hurt their cause even more with that stupid subscription deal. I guess we will see.
Some of us original Crystal owners are feeling a bit left behind, when it comes to updates and additionally added options vs the Light.
I know, we are still waiting on the Wireless, which was one of the original reasons I bought the Crystal... and we won't even talk anymore about the Wide FOV lenses.
I sincerely want pimax to succeed, I also feel it’s an uphill battle because they have a bad name unfortunately.
I wanted to purchase crystal light but my confidence is too low.
Maybe through time they will get a positive response from customers feeling they have confidence in quality and assurance if things go wrong ,pimax will react quickly and positively. A satisfied customer is worth their weight in gold . Word of mouth is how products sell.and company’s grow. Pimax have a great product when it works .
Agreed, the irony is they have a fantastic product (when it works) which is the hardest part... Good Customer Service and Policies should be the easy part but instead it seems like that is causing the most damage right now.
The overall way Pimax operates is an intentional strategic decision. I don't think it's just the marketing department getting out of hand. The company makes its money by selling new headsets, not supporting the ones it has already released. Pimax releases headset after headset after headset rapid fire. Just look at the litany of models and submodels that Pimax has put out. _Far_ more than any other company despite being much smaller than other companies in the industry.
This behavior is enabled by a customer base of hardcore enthusiasts ("Pimaxians") who are willing to accept unfinished, unstable, and all too often defective products. Many of them will just fix it themselves (even when this requires redesign and crafting). Or bypass it. Or workaround it. Or make excuses for it. Some of them will complain bitterly _but will go on buying every new headset from Pimax anyway._ Anything for that sweet sweet cutting edge display.
These people are enablers for Pimax. Without this kind of audience, Pimax wouldn't be able to get away with releasing one not-quite-finished product after another.
So why should this tiger change its stripes? Versus apologizing over and over again, but continuing business as usual as long as this strategy continues to work.
As an owner of the original Pimax Crystal this is simply not true. I am fully supported and have received and continue to receive updates to improve my customer experience. In addition I am a customer who has had no issues with the hardware I purchased.
@@RonniePeterson How well is the wireless support working for you on your Crystal?
@@SargonDragon I don't actually have a requirement for the PImax 60G Airlink. But if I did it is compatible with the PImax Crystal I currently use.
@@RonniePeterson Really? Could you buy one if you wanted to?
The answer is you can't. This is an advertised feature of the Crystal which is the whole reason it has a battery (unless we're counting standalone which is also nowhere), and it's still not available nearly 2 years after launch as the Crystal has been in a state of near abandonment by Pimax for a while now. Pimax has instead chosen to release not one, but two other headsets ahead of it.
Pimax also hasn't fixed the half second audio delay that's been there since launch either. Etc etc.
Maybe you're lucky because you don't use or care about any of the parts of the Crystal that Pimax has abandoned. And maybe you were lucky and got a good unit which has never had any problems. But not everyone has been that lucky. You read a lot of posts of original Crystal owners talking about how abandoned they feel.
I myself have owned two Crystals, both of which turned out to be defective. I was not one of the lucky ones like you. There are people who have bought Crystals (or Crystal Lights) and experienced smooth sailing, but it's a random die roll. This is part of my point about how Pimax operates.
@@SargonDragon I use the Crystal for Driving sims. Plugged in works perfectly. Any issue others have with batteries is never an issue for me. I don't think I have ever changed one!. Obviously if a product is not available you wait. How hard is that.
This was great. Pimax still thinks that looking after a very small handful of RUclipsrs with test products is all they need to do to build trust and get sales. Obviously that's failing hard.
Sadly, if they were going to listen and make big changes, they already would have😢 I'm hopeful and root for them, but I'm also realistic and know how the world works 😢
Yes, I hate that now they see I'm a RUclipsr I'm getting the proper attention as a customer. Should have been a thing from the beginning IMO. Thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Hey Mark, do you know how do I fix my mouse cursor problem? My cursor doesn’t show up in the VR so I can’t play MSFS without it & Pimax is not helping me at all. Can you find out something for me please? Thanks
I have no idea but I'll ask around. If I find something out I'll let you know. Is it MSFS2020 or MSFS2024?
How many monitors are connected to the system? I encountered a similar issue while testing some games. To resolve it, I disconnected one of my two monitors, connected the main monitor via HDMI, and reset the NVIDIA settings to their default values.
Very interesting video. As always.
Thanks for taking the time to watch... this was certainly not a short one!
Pimax is not just spreading themselves thin with headset models and variations, but they even tried to make a rather absurd console. I think that personality plays a big role in this. You have a spectrum of personalities ranging from conscientious people who care about every detail, to highly adventurous people who only care about the big picture and want a lot of new things. It seems to me that Pimax' management team leans too far into the latter direction, and they need to concern themselves more with 'little' details like manufacturability.
Perhaps they need to add a more 'boring' person to the management team and then actually listen to that person. There's nothing wrong with management with big dreams, but at a certain point a company does need a little reality check, where they accept that not everything is realistically possible.
It does always seem that Pimax is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. I don't know how they really thought they could compete with Quest in the stand alone space and the handheld console I knew was dead from the beginning. Again Pimax, lean into your competitive advantage in the market (the Crystal Light for example) and quit with all the distraction products you try to make. Thanks for the comment.
a super good tutorial on how to run a product development
Thanks for watching, yes I was very happy Jeff was willing to share his expertise. I think a lot of people have enjoyed this video. Appreciate you watching.
I'm in the UK. Pimax have a warehouse that deal with returns in the Midlands. Their policy for returns in the UK is not reputable. Pimax insist the customer arranges return and chooses a courier to a cost limit. A reputable company handles that logistical process on the customer's behalf and pays for it. In my case Pimax customer service refused to pay to insure the return which again if they owned this process they would absorb that risk. I then returned via Royal Mail tracked service and my faulty Crystal Light got lost in the mail and now I own that loss of over £600.
And this is exactly why people are hesitant to buy Pimax... they need to build trust back but unfortunately I think for many former Pimax customers, it is too late.
@@GYGOtv pimax switching to subscription model should make everyone completly ignore the company. If they can lock your device because you are not paying, that means they will forever now have this capability to lock your headset. They did that about a year ago already when months after delivering the headset, they locked customer headset and asked them to pay some extra taxes, months after purchase. If the headset doesn't work 100% offline, then you don't own the headset.
@@SINfromPL Yep, I don't get the subscription deal... please tell me more about them basically extorting people for more money? I hadn't heard about that.
Ive returned two Crystals. The only thing I did right was ensure they were sent within 7 days
@@DS-ze7yc I can't believe how many of these stories I keep hearing... man I'm glad you got it back in the return window so you didn't have to fight with them like everyone else seems to. Thanks for the comment.
Excellent discussion and a master class. I’m a doctor, so I don’t understand a lot of the lingo, but it was well explained. I’m also an electronics enthusiast. Back 150 years, there were 2 kinds of doctors - generalists (GP’s) and pathologists to figure out what went wrong ! They were also close with the coroner ! I would love to know what the results of autopsies on all these replaced units. My thought is that, since these are very power hungry devices, that there is a component level issue in power delivery that is weak and prone to failure after, umm … 7 months.
Thanks for watching, It always amazes me how many highly talented and intelligent people watch my content. Appreciate you you stopping by and leaving a comment. I think maybe its a heating thing that takes its toll over the months, or heck could even be some firmware upgrade that started it. The battery issue happened right after a firmware update, which I did tell them when they were trying to trouble shoot. Either way I hope they figure it all out.
I was about to give Pimax a second chance with the Light but after reading about lens issues giving people headaches...I don't want to play that lottery.
Seems to be the growing feeling towards them right now. I hope they can sort it all out because the Crystal Light really is a unique product for VR right now. Thanks for watching.
I'm one of the lucky ones, I got a good PCL, I've been loving it for 3 months now but in the back of my mind, each time I use it I ask myself "Is this the day it will fail?" I love the visuals but don't trust the quality. I very much agree, I also want Pimax to succeed, but to be honest, dealing with them is a exercise in frustration. Also, their accessories are always out of stock, can't make money with "out of stock", ramp up production of these accessories, the top strap, Dmas speakers, Lighthouse face plate, etc. There's not even a PCL replacement cable available in their store, for the OG Crystal yes, for the light, no.
The PCL is my 2nd Pimax HMD, my first was my very first HMD, the Pimax 4k, it was a horrible HMD but it still "WOW'ed" me as to what VR could be, I ordered a OG Vive 3 weeks after getting the Pimax 4k and have been a VR enthusiast since.
Please Pimax, become what this video mentions, concentrate on one HMD and make it the best it can be quality wise, you release new headsets way too soon after a new model, the Light seems to be a success story, you should have ridden that wave, make it's quality better and in a year or two, then release the Super, after it's had time to be fully tested and design and production flaw worked out.
PS: I still have that old Pimax 4k, in it's box, I take it out every so often as a VR nostalgia session and am always happy to put it back in it's box! 🤪
Great Post, thanks you for sharing. You hit the nail on the head with your statement "Is this the day it will fail?"... when that is even in a consumer's mind when they use your product, you have already lost. It is so funny because my Crystal was my newest headset and yet it is the one that failed first... hell I can still plug in my old DK2 and it will power up and work... Pimax, you have done the hard work getting a product designed that people want... just fix your QA/QC and Customer Service and you have won the battle.
@@GYGOtv So very much agree, if the PCL would have a reputation of something like the Reverb G2 (the one they keep comparing to), they would have won the battle, I also have a G2 and for myself, it has been a very reliable HMD along with all the other HMDs I have had over the years. The PCL is the only HMD I'm almost scared to use due to it's failure rate. But then again, we always hear from the people with problems, how many out there are actually happy with the thing thus never hearing from them?
@@jackr.749 Yes and if it was only a problem with customer service but low defect rate I think you would be ok... or if the defect rate was high but Customer Service took good care of people (Like the Intel reference in the video) that would be ok too. It is the combination of the high defect rate AND poor customer service that is causing such a problem. Kind of the perfect storm for Pimax. Thanks for watching.
I have both a Pimax Crystal and an HTC Vive XR Elite. I haven't had a customer service experience with Pimax to date. I did have an experience with HTC and it was probably the best customer service experience I've ever had. They have their service and system operating extremely well. Another big difference that left a major impression on me is that HTC shipped out an accessory kit with multiple facial interfaces and a top strap for free. Pimax charged me like $30.00 for a top strap. The XR Elite just worked out of the box including the stand alone and 5G wireless. I don't think the stand alone for the Crystal has any useable function to this day I think the wireless module might finally be available, but of course it will cost more money. I love the Crystals image quality and size and the DMAS headphones. Other than that the XR Elite is superior in every way. If I could only keep one headset I would keep the XR Elite over the Crystal.
Thanks for the comment. I've never dealt with HTC customer service but I had good customer service interactions with Both HP (for the G2's cable issue, and also a headphone issue) and Varjo which was amazing. Varjo is by far one of my favorite companies and they make the customer feel both important and listened to. Isn't it amazing how much customer service plays into how we view a company regardless of the tech they sell.
@@GYGOtv Everything discussed in the video was right on target and it can not be understated how important customer satisfaction is especially today with social media and influencers calling attention to those that fail miserably at it. The days of ghosting customers without consequence are over. Thank you for shining a spotlight on Pimax no matter how uncomfortable they find it, it's for their own good.
@@MichaelMoellerTRLInc Thank you for taking the time to watch it and commenting.
Recommendation for you guys next topic.
Convincing HP to re-enter the VR space.
I'd rather convince Valve to release the Deckard!!!
LOL. That's a long shot for sure. Not that HP has the greatest reputation either but my HP Reverb G2 gen 1 is still kicking and working pretty good. In fact for iRacing I prefer it to my Quest 3.
@@stevenmay5703 Ironically all my old headset still work, it was the newest one (the Crystal) that broke LOL. I loved the G2, but I think I like the Quest 3 more. Thanks for the comment.
One thing I wanted to ask you Mark is, what happened to your Varjo Aero? I've heard you say many times how much you liked that headset. Maybe you already answered this question in one of your other videos I didn't see.
I'm still using the Varjo Aero and just like you, I like it a lot! With that said, it would be nice to have an even more crisp image, more popping colors and better black levels. For that reason, I bought a Pimax Crystal Light some time ago but sadly had to return it due to issues where my eyes were really hurting from using it. It was like my eyes never managed to get things in focus no matter how I tried to adjust both the position of the headset on my head as well as the IPD. Going back to the Varjo Aero was like going onto a really nice vacation for my eyes after being in the Pimax CL...
Still though, I'm tempted to buy a new headset down the road once there is one which I think will be a worthy upgrade. I've been thinking of the Somnium VR1 and I'm also very interested in the upcoming MeganeX Superlight 8K. The upcoming Pimax Super of course is very interesting too but sadly based on all issues discussed with Pimax both on your channel as well as elsewhere in combination with my own experience, it's highly unlikely I would spend any more money on a Pimax product at this point in time.
Guess I'll hold off for now and carry on enjoying my Varjo Aero at least until the MeganeX Superlight 8K has been released and properly reviewed by trustworthy people such as yourself before I take any decision. I'm also waiting for the Nvidia 5000 series cards which will be very interesting. Especially with a headset such as the MeganeX with its high resolution. Will be so cool when the day comes where can both have and eat the cake looking at visuals and performance.
That is a fantastic question! I still have my Varjo Aero and I would have been using it once I sent my Crystal back except I've have had some questions about using the Quest Pro Controllers for Motion Compensation so I thought it was the perfect time to sort that out while I'm between headsets. My Varjo Aero is still my backup for sure and it is comforting to know I can always go back to it if need be. As for your CL issue, I bet you had defective lenses and that was causing the problems. I hear of lots of people having this issue lately. Anyway, the MeganeX is looking more and more like my next headset and I'm very excited to "see" how it looks. Thanks for watching.
You cant fix something that does not want to be fixed. Their terrible customer service has not changed a bit. I am still dealing with them.
Yep, we have heard this same thing for years now... it takes a lot to fix a culture that operates like this... we will see if they can change or not I guess.
I ordered the pimax crystal super and i hav to wait till next march - the good news is i am building a homecockpit and upgrading my pc so i can handle the crystal super - but true jeff is speaking right .anouncing a product and making customers wait 5 months for it is not a good move i think
I think Jeff was right about a lot of things. If I were Pimax I'd be asking him to consult and get the company on the right track. I guess we will see if they can achieve that on their own.
@@GYGOtv come on man, pimax does not need help.. this is their way of doing business. It's a chinese company, with non-chinese guy as public spoke person. They made a kickstarter not too long ago for crappy clone of Nintendo Switch on Android, which has already been discountinued, and the multiple VR headsets promised for that Pimax Portal has also never been truly released. In my opinion you always give too much cred for Pimax. Oh we need Pimax. No we don't. You "simmer" guys just desire extreme resolutions, and that's pretty much the only thing pimax could brute-force their way in. I've been watching the company since the very beginning, their first product being Pimax 4k, which was just a chinese clone of Open Sourced Oculus Rift DK1. Immediatly back then the dishonesty started with calling it "4K" because of the typical chinese math.
@@GYGOtv to be honest with you the more the time passes the more stressed i am that the device i will receive will be faulty. and than i will have to go with what you went trough which is very horrible. I mean from one hand they make the best VR in the world undoubtedly but on the other hand its a gamble Either it works or it doesn't and if it don't well shit . I'm not Shure if i should ask for a refund and then buy it once its released to the public and then i see the public opinion on it and then i order it. or i should just wait and hope for the best.
Pimax: "it's the costumer supports fault".
Jeff: "It's everyone but the customer supports fault".
And there in lies the problem don't you think? Thanks for watching.
Great video Mark and Jeff !
Thank you for an open and non Pimax bashing take on the issue.
I agree that I want Pimax to be successful, we all benefit from that.
Thanks Danny... as an old show once said... "Just the Facts". Let others decide what that means. Appreciate your support of the channel my friend!
RUclipsrs yapping for hours, Jaap will say thanks these are great suggestions, and then pimax is pimax
To be fair... we only yapped for an hour and I don't think Pimax is listening to any of our suggestion LOL. Thanks for watching.
Eagle Dynamics could learn a lot from this discussion.
Send them over the link :) Thank you, yes Jeff has amazing knowledge and his willingness to share it is unheard of. Truly one of the great guys in our industry! Thanks for the comment.
Thanks. But cmon, Pimax Super and low end Somnium VR are clearly *not* direct competitors - Super is *clearly* more affordable.
Somnium have pretty much priced themselves into assured oblivion imo.
@@Panzerlangsure it is niche but to me that is what driving the industry and for all different companies do better in the long run where we all benefit from.
I’m not sure where we are with Somnium right now in terms of quality and just delivering what is promissed. If and when they are meeting the expected standard then it is probably well worth it even a lot more expensive. I’m not waiting on a HMD that gets broken after a couple of weeks because it is 1000$ cheaper because it still costs 1500$ and turn out to be an expensive paperweight. A matter perspective I guess
Not sure what you mean, the Super is like $1700 and you can get the base model VR1 for around $2000, with the MeganeX at $1900 so All pretty close in my opinion. Yes the Super has more features... but what good are all the extra features if the thing doesn't work?
@@GYGOtv I stand corrected, thanks! I think though that more fair would be comparison between the eye tracked version of VR1 (2500 euros without VAT) and Super. I waited for the VR1 for a long time but gave up after price reveal; preordered Super.
@@pertsonvelts1699 I've kind of lost interest in Eye Tracking as it seems Dynamic Foveated Rendering might fall to the wayside (see www.reddit.com/user/mbucchia/comments/) I think a better option will be to just brute force the graphics with the 5090 so I'm not as worried about having Eye Tracking as much now. Now obviously if you get eye tracking for the same price as one without then that is a bonus... but will the cheaper one (Super vs. VR1) actually work or are you going to run into QA problems with it too? I hope by the time the Super comes out, they have all this QA sorted for everyone who got one, It really sounds like amazing tech if it all works and doesn't break.
I just want a better 8kx. Same FOV with better qled panels and glass lenses, smaller form factor, more comfortable headgear. With the proven lighthouse tracking and save money on inside out tracking. Use dual cables for the bandwidth. Sell it for about $1000.
Maybe the super will fit the bill. But with Pimax track record, I'm sure they'll screw it up. Maybe a BSB 2 with more pov and adjustable IPD?
I mean we all want that magical headset, I would only want OLED because I'm an OLED Snob! The unfortunate thing is the Crystal Light actually is a great experience even as is. The problem is you can't be sure you will get a working one when you buy it. Even if they make the headset with the specs you say, it still needs to work and not be defective like you mention. I know I'm just preaching to the choir here, it is just so frustrating to watch what his going on at Pimax. Thanks for the comment.
@@GYGOtv I heard rumor that if you kneel down on both knees and pray, often time you ended up with the best quality lenses or headset. It does works, trust me!
Yep, I agree. Even with the 8kx, I have USB connection issues. I also went through the period of them putting out firmware that broke the headsets.
I learned never to update their software or try the latest headset.
I'll wait till the Super has been out for about 6 months before I'll even consider it.
Thanks for publishing your real life experiences and talking to the Pimax folks. I hope they listen to y'alls feedback.
@@Hwy929 I hope they listen too... sure would like to see them turn all this around and offer a great headset that people can have faith will work when thy buy it. I guess we will see.
The problem is that they are very greedy as a business model, they release a product prematurely and then half way without addressing the faults and short-comings of the newly released product, they announce the next product and focus on releasing that instead. The loop continues with with bad quality control and subpar customer service. At this point, I don't think they care, like many other Chinese businesses I have dealt with, they grab your money and bye bye.
That is how I felt dealing with them before the video came out. It was like, sorry you are having problems... if you pay us a little more then we might be able to help you better. That was the thing that made me so mad. They certainly have a reputation that will take a lot of effort to turn around. Thanks for watching.
@@GYGOtv Beware that they could just be shining you on. I don't take the position that Pimax is an evil company and everything they say is a lie or whatever. But I'd point out that the company has been caught a number of times in apparent deliberate premeditated lies. Such as when they showed in a video interview with MRTV 2 years ago what they claimed was a working 12K prototype that was doing 6K per eye at 90Hz.
It's Jaap's job to sooth and persuade, and he's very good at it. He certainly seems very sincere. But I've met people before who seemed perfectly and absolutely convincingly sincere when they were never actually being honest at all. Some people are very good at putting on a convincing face. And so how can we know?
Some of Pimax's actions and even some of Jaap's own actions I've seen paint a different picture in ways that are very hard to handwave away as not having been deliberate dishonesty. They're not fully innocent. But I'm not convinced they're fully bad guys either.
At the end of the day, they need to prove what they say with actions rather than cheap words. This company has not in any way earned being trusted at its word, no matter how convincingly that word is spoken.
The specs are awesome, but I simply can't afford to spend a ton of money on a lemon. It should not be a lottery as to whether you get a good unit or not.
BTW, excellent show. You touched on issues that are very relevant to troubleshooting QC problems, not addressed in other podcasts.
Agreed, it shouldn't be a gamble when you spend that much money on a product. Glad you enjoyed the show and thanks for taking the time to watch it.
Genuingly learned a couple things for my job and first time hearing the quote "In God we trust, but everyone else has to [provide] data." which should be a mantra everywhere
Good Ol' Jeff, he has tons of those saying... I really liked that one too! Thanks for taking the time to watch such a long video.
I've seen other brands turn around their bad QC and reputation (xiaomi is one that comes to mind of a big brand, in the sim world, moza and simagic went from mediocre products to top products nowadays) however it took them years. I hope pimax survives enough to see that change, for the sake of competition in the market at the very least.
I would love to see them join that list and that was one reason we did this video. BUT they have to want to change AND be willing to put in the hard work to do it. From their track record this seems unlikely, but I hope this time is different. Thanks for the comment.
I ordered a crystal light a couple of months ago and when i received it and tested it 5 weeks after order i realised it was faulty, lens and contrast issues with with screens,dead pixels.
I couldn't even get answers to simple questions, they never once directly answered over 20 questions over 2 weeks of daily messages. I simply wanted to swap my order to the super and if this was possible and i just couldn't get a straight answer, so now i have returned the light, i still don't know if i'm going to get a refund or a replacement of a headset i don't want anymore. It's so frustrating trying to communicate with them and they have nearly a £1000 of my money. I have insisted they swap my order for the super but the more i read i really think i should just get a refund and see how everyone else gets on in the future with the super.
And this is exactly what pisses me off!!! I was in the same boat, and if I hadn't made that video I would still be in that boat. They need to treat EVERYONE well, not just the people who have a platform to stand on. I hope it works out and this is exactly why I can't get behind Pimax right now. Thanks for the comment.
@@GYGOtv
No, thankyou.
It's good to be listened too.
I'm still really torn with a decision but with the looks of it i don't actually have a choice, i'm just at the mercy of what they decide or what their system actually gives me in the end, it could be either a replacement a order for a super or £900 lol.
I have given up and will just see what happens. I've got a feeling they will end up saying my package has been lost because on their returns instructions it insists the package isn't singed for on their end. Will end up going through insurance or something.
My heart wants to give it another chance and see if i get a "good one" but my head is saying refund, save money and hope they turn things round with the Super which on paper makes the most sense but from what i can gather the super will be their win or bust product.
@@MrAnthonyfrench I so feel your pain. I felt the exact same way on my deal. I was sure they would send me a defective replacement and then when I mention that to them... they would say well since it is out of warranty now you will have to pay an extra $XXXX to have it replaced again. I already planned for it to go into the trashcan at that point. Honestly I still think that might have happened if I hadn't made my video but we will never know. I sincerely hope yours works out in your favor, please keep me posted.
Whilst they are making money they won't fix a thing. Why should they? They're making money. Customers are good for new business and each year as people turn eighteen and become financially independent the markets have an endless supply of new customers so new product will always be sold to the unsuspecting and nothing will change until no one buys anything again from that supplier. Hit the pocket, hit the problem. It's really that simple. But too many people are stupid enough not to pay heed.
I don't think people are stupid, we all just want the experience that a headset with those specs can provide. So in that pursuit, we justify Pimax by saying to ourselves... O' it is just a vocal minority... These things can't be that bad, people are just exaggerating... or any other justification we can come up with to reinforce our desire to have a Pimax. Then the reality hits when you headset fails and we realize, damn I guess everyone was right. They will eventually run out of goodwill out there and if they keep going down this path they will eventually fail... it is just a matter of how long that will take. I personally think they are already on the downhill so they need to do something fast if they truly want to turn things around. More likely they will just ride it into the ground until they close shop. We will see.
@@GYGOtv Whilst I can see that you are being diplomatic, I have to say... no mate... there are stupid and naive people in the world. They will be caught out by Pimax and other companies that put profit before quality. Stupidity does exist and it is not the sole preserve of the education deficient. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... there is enough info out there for Pimax to have started to crumble already but people are still listening to influencers and the product is still being bought. Like I said, each year brings a new generation of foolish people with plenty of money to the market place.
@@GYGOtv I can't agree with you... whilst I am not saying that everyone is stupid... there are people out there who will not listen to good advice. I have learned never to take a good review and to always look at the bad ones to see if they have any substance because you cannot take positive promotion on face value anymore.
@@dalemckenzie335 I certainly agree with this, very good advice.
fantastic video my brother hopefully they listen to you
Thanks for taking the time to watch such a long one. I hope they listen to us too!
Pimax needs a proper EU representation, run by a EU citizen, not a Chinese person who doesn't understand the culture and laws. Pimax will never do such a thing because they're not stupid and know about EU consumer protection laws. If Pimax ever gets a full fledged EU office, with local stock and repair service, THEN and only then can you be sure they fixed their sh1t.
I think they could address this stuff staying Chinese based but the question is will they? I guess we will see won't we. Thanks for watching.
@@GYGOtv China is where Japan was in the 70s and 80s of last century. Which Japanese company, a household brand back then in electronics, still actually exists and thrives?
Only Sony. Sony was also the only company that would put a local Western CEO in their local offices. All other Japanese electronics companies were afraid of this and insisted on Japanese CEOs they shipped out. Now they are seriously reduced in market presence or no longer exist.
@@bakakafka4428 LOL ya Sony was what came to mind and then you mentioned them, but honestly I'm not an expert in this area so I take your word for it. So my point, Pimax COULD do what Sony did and have a chance right? Unlikely but possible wouldn't you agree?
I have crystal cause of eye tracking, also going for super qd, 57ppd if binocular overlap will be +- as on 50ppd. Not interested in light. I am pretty sure they now dont focus too much on that oled version, but they have to focus on oled a bit cause when new larger oled panels come out, to be rdy.
There is no argument that they have great tech for sure... the problem is will the headset you get actually function or will it be faulty. These are too expensive to take that risk for many people. For those that do, I hope you all get great working headsets!
@@GYGOtvnail on the head Mark. Too expensive for the highest risks.
@@Lucas_Pit Yep and the new headsets are just getting more and more expensive so I don't see that helping PImax's situation either.
I’ve pre ordered the Super, despite the warnings, on the basis that you want this company to work and I think they will make it work having watched their responses and your interviews
I ordered one 8 days ago and it still hasn't been shipped yet. When it eventually does it's going to take a further 4 weeks to get to Australia. Totally pissed off with them He was obviously full of crap, if they can't even get shipping sorted. I ordered it a few days before I ordered my $6000 laptop to power it. My laptop will be here next week and that has to be built. My laptop is coming from Australia, but it's from Perth. A long haul flight with 1 stop. just a few hour shorter than coming from China. Why should it take more than 5 weeks longer? Not a good start to my pimax experience.
Sorry to hear that... I feel your pain, that is how my replacement has gone too. I hope when you get it, it works right out of the box with no issues because it is AMAZING when you get a good one. Just be sure to double check everything within that 10 day (maybe 14 day now) window so you don't have to fight like I did to get something fixed. Good Luck and thanks for the comment.
@GYGOtv thanks m8.
@@TheebayOffroader Cheers!
In my case it did ship and was magically delivered yesterday and within the stated 2 to 3 week window when ordered. It just appears the tracking system/link was never updated for me so I never new it was shipped. So perhaps that might be the case for you. Did you get it delivered?
@@stevenmay5703 Nothing yet, just shows a label has been created is all.
Almost an hour of talk, and I don't think "CHINA" was mentioned even once? This is a Chinese company, products Made In China.
They don't have legal access to global Steam, they can't even get on RUclips, Reddit or Discord without VPN. I'm sorry, but you sir as a "nobody" (no offense) knows how the company should run etc, and you're just a customer, then what does it say about the company? It doesn't take a genius to realize any of the things you guys talked about. This is just classic chinesium we're dealing with. Anyone who has done a lot of business with China will sooner or later come to conclusion that this is all just a cultural difference.
Also, praising Steam for refund policies is wrong, because they fought against it, till European Union forced them to. You think they are so pro-customer, when in reality everything they do & offer is designed to tie you into their version of walled garden. If you use any of Steam features, like Workshop, no other platform can ever access it. So your games become Steam exclusive, or other platforms suffer from lack of parity.
You are welcome to your opinion, and there certainly are cultural differences that are likely at play here but that doesn't mean Pimax can't be different... it will just be difficult IMO. Not sure if I'd say someone who did this at Amazon for 12 years and was connected with some of the biggest product launches they had doesn't know how a company should run... but whatever. As for Steam, you can say what you want but THEY ARE the standard in the digital game marketplace... How many other companies have tried to launch their own platforms and failed by comparison. But again you can look at it however you want. Thanks for watching.
Gents... This is a problem that starts at the top, I had a PCL and had to send it back due to quality issues.
Agreed, the "buck stops here" when you get to the CEO! According to Jaap, Robin is very on board with "fixing Pimax", but we all know talk is cheap so we will see what happens. Thanks for the comment.
The best solution is to hire Jeff Weaver. Too bad, Jeff doesn't speak Mandarin since Pimax seems to only hire outsiders that speak both English and Mandarin. I agreed that Valve and Amazon have the best customer services, I can't remember how many times I gotten $5 or $10 credits off of Amazon delaying my shipment lol...or they even sometimes let me keep the product and refund. Valve allowing you refund the game up to a certain amount of game play time is a cool idea.
In regard to Pimax, I think it's just hiring the right people. They should hire people that know what they're doing rather than those they're comfortable to work with. If you limit to just people that need to speak Mandarin and English, then the pool of outside talents get smaller. Maybe the very people that do the hiring aren't talented enough to spot out talents? I seen they let go of two English speakers a year or so ago. I wonder if there was any problem internally. I thought they did a fine job speaking about the products like Josh. I don't know about the other guy, but Josh is a talented marketer. Of course, marketing wasn't the issue...it's the product manager...the one that decide when it is ready. The idea to have so many different variation in a product may be coming from the CEO Robin. Focusing on a single product is definitely a better path, I agreed. However, if Pimax has the financial resource to hire a lot of people and have them work on different product, it works for me too. I think the different variation of products from OG Crystal to Crystal Light was sort of a learn experience as you go. They learned what people wanted...but if they solely focus on just the OG...I think it's still wouldn't be a great product due to its weight and size. So, they transform it into a lighter one and now even smaller size with the Super. The different variation of Super is fine because of the optical lenses engine replacement. Of course, if something didn't work as expected, it requires better quality control and communications.
Another great comment from you, thanks for that. I personally think Pimax needs to get the quality control in line before they do anything else! Selling 100 defective headsets just makes 100 people who will never buy your product again. Already we can see potential new customers hesitant to buy Pimax... and currently it doesn't really seem like Pimax is doing much to develop or regain trust in the marketplace. I guess we will see what happens long term but I hope we aren't having these same discussions in say 2 years when the 12k comes out.
So you think problem are the people and not leadership? Why Jeff? They had Kevin, a random guy who claims to have worked at NASA - only to switch working on vr toys?
@@SINfromPL I don't know if I trust Kevin. He came off as non-convincing to me. I like Josh and Swever though.
@@reptilexcq2 why would you? SweViver after he got employed PROMISED to remain independent and continue running his channel. He stopped nearly immediatly, and for years it's been an outlet for Pimax propaganda. These guys are not your friends. These are pimax employees, doing everything to keep their job, meaning = following pimax leadership orders, even if each one of them individually want company to operate differently. But SweViver never quit, so he is happier to take their money, and tell you how awesome pimax headsets are.
@@SINfromPLI think Jeff spelled out what the problems are... now if you don't think he has the experience to have an opinion then that is up to you. I'm not sure why you are attacking a guy who is just offering advice to Pimax? I'm kind of confused by your comments.
Can Jeff talk to the team at MS Flight Sim please, about releasing a half baked product ;)
I think the problem with MS Flight Sim is the arrogance so I don't think they would listen even if he tried. They didn't listen to much of the early feedback and felt they could implement streaming despite gaming services like Stadia failing because the tech just isn't as good as local installs. They need to be humbled before they will listen to anyone... maybe that is happening now. Thanks for the comment.
How about your case now Mark? Did they fix your issues?
Jaap assured me they would make this right, so I'm sure it is in process. They paid for the shipping back of the old headset, which I sent on Nov. 27th. As of right now, I'm still waiting for a replacement Crystal Light and I haven't seen any refund so nothing tangible has really changed yet. We will see if anything ever gets taken care of but honestly I'm not holding by breath. I'm sure it eventually will, I just don't know when.
@@GYGOtv There's a 100% chance Pimax will fix this for a high profile case being posted on RUclips. Pimax has a history of focusing resources to resolve cases where it is being publicly embarrassed. The problem is all the other people this also happens to that don't have a voice.
@@SargonDragon I'm trying to fight for everyone else, I totally agree that without my channel I wouldn't have gotten this result no matter what they say. I tried everything before making that video and nothing worked until the other video went live. I'd love to see changes at Pimax but I'm not holding my breath at this point.
@@GYGOtv I appreciate that. But at the same time, I'm concerned that Pimax may be using your channel to perform very effective damage control, too. I see so many comments on videos where Jaap responds and people are swayed to turn it all around and see it all as a net positive for Pimax, actually reinforcing their confidence in the company instead. And I want to remind people to remember how we got here.
And that words are cheap.
@@SargonDragon All we can do is inform them of the situation (and what has been an ongoing situation for years and years at this point). The one thing I've learned is that if someone is dead set on buying a Pimax they will find the justification for it whatever it is (Jaaps replies, other positive reviewers, or whatever). These videos are not for them, these videos are for people who honestly might be thinking of a Pimax and are open minded for the facts. I'm certainly not giving Pimax another dollar unless I see some honest change and I can tell you that Subscription Model is exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for. I know for me, I had heard all the talk of change when the OG Crystal was coming out and I thought... I should give Pimax a chance... You see how that worked out.
Hi, It's very unfortunate that you had to make this video, the culture at Pimax is unbelievable. They have great ideas but the execution is how to say it.....the customers have a right to get a good VR headset and NOT a roll of the dice as their money is also good. Their culture makes it hard to buy their products. If they had confidence in them they would give a 3 years warranty. I bought something else and it's not Pimax.
I really didn't want to make the original video because I know this can do a lot of damage to a company. I tried everything to work it out behind closed doors but when they tried to charge me that extra $339 I was dumbfounded. I'm pro-customer so that was the point I knew this story had to be made public. I hope Pimax can turn things around as they have a good product... when it works. Thanks for the comment!
Looks like Pimax is going to be their own worst competition after today’s announcement. Flabbergasted about their decision to announce and pre-sell yet another headset. They are going to put themselves out of business…fascinating to watch.
My Pimax Crystal,
i need ever 2hours for this Headset.
PC off,on,
Headset Off, on
Cable Plugin ect...
The Bug is With the VR image?
Yaw2 and Pimax Crystal are a Misstake.
Pimax next Gen Will definitely get better.
But YawVR this cant better, the Team is too little.
Pimax will *NEVER* get better, stop kidding yourself. They've been around for over 5 years now fairly mainstream and their QC issues are only getting worse from "was bad from the get go". They will crash and burn and honestly, I hope so. Let them burn out and a new higher tier headset maker come along and take its place.
@@Munky332 Unfortunately for Pimax, this is how a lot of people feel about them. Certainly an uphill battle that they have earned themselves. Thanks for the comment.
Hopefully, we will see how the Super does once it hits the marketplace.
I am in the market for a new set of VR. I am using the Varjo Aero now, and think the Pimax Super looks interesting. I will for sure look closer at them after release and some good reviews.
I think the Super should be amazing as a product. We will see if the Quality Control and Customer Service has improved by then, I hope it has! Thanks for the comment.
Jaap might be sincere but he also knows his job is on the line if he pushes too hard, so guess what he won't do. Note, "pushing hard" in china wouldn't open a well-greased door in the west.
If I felt the company wasn't sincere, I wouldn't work here. It's not like I have nowhere else to go. I believe in Pimax, in the company and our products. We make mistakes and we'll improve. I don't think it's about being afraid to push too hard, but reminding and helping the company to grow as a team. Also, I'm far from the only one doing that.
@@JaapGrolleman you are talking in exactly the same way as Kevin Henderos and Joshua Son - your Pimax colleagues who quit the company and announced it in an interview during CES 2024. You are not an external observer, you are just a talking head representing the company interest, not anyone else.
@SINfromPL I'm not Joshua, I'm not Kevin. I know what my role is and I focus on that. Other than that I don't want to compare. But to put me off as some talking head I think is pretty offensive.
@@JaapGrolleman You literally are a talking head. That's all you do to the outside world. Just like SweViver. He also promised everything you have said already multiple times. It doesn't matter you are not Kevin, Joshua or Sweviver. You are representing Pimax interests just like all of them before you.
I'll let Jaap speak for himself on this one. Thanks for watching.