This is actually the reason why I stopped playing hearthstone. Just feels like there is no fun deck I really enjoy playing. The game is just way to fast now and trying to play slwoer decks is impossible, because you just get blown out from hand without any counterplay.
I think another huge issue and a reason why people don't want to play control is almost any deck being able to generate an ocean of random cards giving them infinite value. People are never out of steam and never out of answers because every deck has cards that generate cards, that generate two more cards, that generate a card, that gegenrates three more cards etc. And because the power level of cards in general is so high, the chance that the random cards are good is high too. It is such a tedious slugfest and you feel like both players are just machine gunning out random cards until someone gets very lucky and wins. There is barely any thinking or tactic involved, you just crank up the slot machine and pray. My solution: Make it so cards that generate cards can't generate cards that give you more cards. For example make it so Infinitize the Maxitude only ever pulls from a pool of cards like Frostbolt, Counterspell, Fireball etc. Make an exception for cards that just draw from your deck. Make people actually have to think again and not just throw stuff against the wall until something sticks.
I'd like to see something like "to generate a card, use 1 mana" If you don't have 1 mana, the card you play that would generate a card just doesn't. I think THAT would actually go a long way.
When thats been tried it has led to some horrible expansions like boomsday project. I think the answer is to make each set have good cards but not exactly synergize with each other too much.
The problem with card design recently is that it feels they are designed in a vaccum, they just create busted effects and randomly assign them to different classes, interactions are not thought through, balance was thrown out the window and testing seems non-existent
the druid location that discovers a taunt minion and reopens when you gain armor, combined with the mech that gains you 3 armor when you us3 a location, instantly uses the whole location when needed.... its not BROKEN but it SCREAMS "poorly thought out, bad game design"
I have been hoping for a hard reset now for over 2 years. I think we should skip one expansion, to reset ALL the cards. Rework them, nerf them, buff them. That way we can slow the game down, get the power level on a more healthy path and the game will feel fresh again.
@@bllllood I've been thinking of doing something similar. But then I realised that they'd have to give so many refunds (including runestones because of diamond bundles) that even in the small chance they care/see it, it'll never happen.
I was just playing reno shaman, and guess what, druid otk's me on turn 6, dealing over 20 damage from hand... I honestly don't think the devs play their own game at this point, like what the hell is this?? Remember when we cried about astalor's 8 mana 14 damage on turn 10?
Why do you not play 4 mana 2/5 pirate that makes cards from other classes cost 2 more? Peoples still use platebreaker against armor druid that saw no play in 2 years, the playrate of cobold sticky finger was x2 more than playrate of kingsbane. I think it is your bad that you don't understand and underestimate tech cards...
@@impkiller5932 because it doesnt fit in my deck and it doesn't really matter. They have more than enough damage to kill both me and the minion and once its dead, druid's shit costs 0 again. its not my fault that the design team is a failure.
@@generalkenobi4818 tell me you know nothing about game but don't tell me you know nothing, in wild all control decks run the 3 mana dragon that makes cards cost bot less than 2. This card can win the turn it was played against rogues or any other aggro deck, loatheab is still meta even after years it was released. Mana tech cards are insane powerfull, like the house 2/3 that was increasing each card you draw cost 1 more nerfed almost instantly.
The problem is you can’t solve power creep with weakening new sets. If they want to do this right (and make a lot of players upset), they could fully rotate all of the sets in standard when the new season starts while printing sets with weaker cards. They won’t ever do that though.
What j wish they would do, rotate all sets at the start of the next year, bring back 3 old sets, and make a new, weak set, on power with the 3 wild sets. Ideally, the old sets would not have been in standard together, so that standard is still new, with maybe some very minor tweaks. For example, you could make it spooky themed and bring back Whispers of the Old Gods, Witchwood and Madness at the Darkmoon Faire, ideally with added Demon Hunter and Death Knight cards Some thing they could do in addition would be instead of making one set, make 3 Mini-sets, one for each old expansion. Not sure what they would put instead of the normal miniset then though...
They really need to nerf card draw. Sleep Under The Stars is 100% the most problematic card in hearthstone right now and i feel like it slips under people's radar. 1 mana draw 2 4 mana draw 4 7 mana draw 6 INSANE flexibility or you can gain a billion armor. Whatever happened to managing resources?
@@juryrigg5568basically guy above is saying if you play this card at 9 mana you get 2 mana for free because if you refresh 3 times that’s 2 mana gained
their afraid of reno at 8-9, but give sonya rogue infinite fireball + heal, and people already gave up on the format while waiting for nerfs and better buffs, otherwise just remove every +7 mana cards if they don't want them in their game
Its insane to me, that there is an 1 mana neutral 3/2, that gives a minion in you hand +1+1... There was a time, when this had been played as a 2 mana minion.
"Are late game cards dead?" Yes they are and always will be. Any time they release a high mana card designed to win on turn 10+ everyone complains until that card gets nerfed to the ground.
I mean because if that one card just makes you instantly win on turn 10+, then you just build your entire deck to purely stall and ignore your opponent amd just remove everything. This is not fun for the opponent. Atleast if everybody dies on turn 7-8 it was a rather quick game
@@williamhooper3541 i mean atleast agro is fast and lets you do your thing. In comparison to priest stealing all your minions, warlock killing everything or mage casting 50 different random spells to kill you
You know what is a bigger problem? The absolute boatload of bugs that occur since the last patch. Games getting stuck, achievements not popping up, shop not working, games failing to start, reward track rewards not coming through, broken animations and the list goes on.
Not to forget, the expensive skins don't stay linked to their decks and the game keeps giving you any of your skins after every time you exit the game...
as i see it, 5 mana 6/5 is the biggest a minion should be to be cost effective, based on the math of what it takes to clear it, the number of minions it can up-trade into, and for the amount of time you have to wait to play it. seeing as sinrunner was a 5 mana 6/5 with a massive upside of a deadly shot deathrattle that no one knows exists, yeah, game too fast.
When pit fighter came out back in the day it was considered to have "premium stats" as a 5 mana 5/6, which works well if we consider premium stats for 4 mana to be 4/5.
Control died with all the win cons and combo damage from hand. Its crazy decks can deal so much damage from nothing in a game where the only interaction u have with your opponent is what they have on board.
This is the first expansion I haven't spent a dime on, for cards or cosmetics or anything. I'm thoroughly disgusted by the state of standard that I will not support this team in any financial way until they completely reverse course and stop the ridiculous power creep every new set brings.
I would say it's not that Sargeras itself is bad, but the slow warlock archetype is, since their only proactive curve of forge into alley pact doesn't work anymore
One thing can really making change is making hero health 60 In decks using ten cards more than 6 mana but i don't think devs like late game decks problem is this its more fast than marvel snap
the modern "Have counterspell/oh-my-yogg/objection/okani up or I change how the game works for the rest of eternity" cards are why I only play solo content anymore
How can we make most players want the same? People just want to play broken things every turn, most of those who cared for wholesomeness of the game left already
handbuff is so good because it can buff floodgates that turn the broken stuff off without completely tanking the consistency or curve of the deck. I hope hearthstone doesn't go the mystic mine approach to slowing the game down; that would be universally hated. I see that as more likely though than a recalibrated card design approach.
I started to hate the 3 mana copy anything cards when the warrior one appeared, and they just keep making them Please make them friendly, it’s so frustrating to pay for an expensive minion that gets stolen for 3.
My biggest probelm with aggro decks is that no amount of board clears helps when all their minions have charge or they help deal direct damage. They need baord clears with lots of healing or armor gain to have a chance.
When I saw DK's new 2-mana 4/4 across 3 bodies that can survive 2 board clears AND has Rush AND has no synergy requirements, I uninstalled. I'm pretty sure they have no sense of balance or good design over there at Blizzard HQ 0:40 - 1:01 Sums it up. It wasn't just the Devs fault, aggro/tempo players asked for this. Be careful what you wish for, now everyone plays less and yall wonder why they increased the quest requirements
In MTG every color can access mana ramp, but in hearthstone it's mostly been restricted to a single class. As long as the developers maintain this restriction it will make the more expensive cards worse for all classes that aren't druids.
Strange how the two games I play, HS and Mortal Kombat, are having similar issues. Characters in MK1 don’t all have clear archetypes. MK has rush, zone, set up, defensive, and a few just “all rounded” characters… but MK1 has so many characters that just feel… lost. Just like the decks nowadays. I only play BGs in HS and it’s been that way since Badlands. Reno and Brann can suck my nuggets.
Tekken 8 is similar, the well rounded characters got insane rushdown tools. While the rushdown characters who already had broken rushdown got the few holes in their gameplay patched up making them very all round.
@slippers8000 Why do fighting game devs insist on watering down their games and mechanics of those games to cater to a wider audience..? Oh wait, I know why, money. That’s the only goal anymore. Ed Boon used to be passionate about making over the top gore with great lore and shit… nowadays… just sad.
In mtg we call decks by their color combinations. Really helps with explaining how the deck functions... Like how Jund( red, green, black) is a midrangy "fair" deck that aims to disrupt your opponent's early, play cheap threats in the midgame and win with grindy threats in the late game. I see hearthstone is at this point now, where you might as well call frost death night, buttons frost midrange. Kinda mixing the two classes together. Kinda happy to see that they are finally doing this in hearthstone because there are still different types of strategies that probably have not been found yet. Now, will they be good strategies, who knows, but they are there.
I've stopped thinking this is an accident when Deckhand and Leeroy were added to the core set. Maybe if they wanted to slow down quest completion they could make it so you don't play 15 cards a turn
I really noticed this with the Lackey set. Every card draws you another card. I suppose Hearthstone has always been a game where people sit there holding 6 or 7 or more cards all game but this reduces an aspect of a card game. Traditional aggro decks can’t get through all the junk they can easily put on the board. It seems pretty crazy out there. Someone attacked me on turn 4 with a 42/42 1/1 beast/haste creature (my turn 3). Combo can still win apparently
The reason is expansion relevance. When an expansion gets released without powercreep, it competes with 3-5 other expansions and a core set for usage on constructed decks. This means that like 75%-85% of the new cards are below par and do not get played in top decks. This would cut sales, as people can keep playing with old cards and craft a few good cards that can improve their decks. If the expansions are powerful, people will buy the packs.
The only ways i see this changing would be 3 options. 1. Wait for rotation and tone down expansions. Will probably not work unfortunately because that means for the expansions previous still being very powerful and the new ones being super lackluster and would probably lose peoples interest in hearthstone anyway. 2. Make a hearthstone 2 or something it is not what i would want, but a new game with limited expansions or brand new expansions starting from scratch. This i dont think is a good idea as there are as many cards and memories that would be thrown away for a lot of people they would have to try and compensate those that may lose cosmetics on cards. 3. I think the only semi-realistic option is to so something similar to dead by daylight where a while ago they did a huge patch changing nearly every perk in the game turning it on its head. Doing this with hearthstone and changing nearly everycard in the game even old cards could make the game worse or better, but could be very tailored to change the wild and standard metas to how the devolopers and hopefully players would want.
You’re entirely right. They had good ideas like Aranna Demon Hunter but they failed to follow through with it. They didn’t give demon Hunter any cards that do anything when they take damage, although they certainly could have.
Do you remember when Savage Roar and Force of Natur was an insane Druid combo, that dealed 14 dmg with 2 cards and couldnt bypass taunt? Oh Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I want fighting for board actually. Personally, I think the best approach would be to nerf the hell out of removal and poof effects (and their likes especially), buff the health of a lot of minions but nerf their attack, and nerf the hell out of cards that can snowball out of control - mainly by making their effects once per turn (for example Sharpshooter, Observer of Myths, Crimson Clergy, Sonya, Etc.) Those are the direct changes I'd make to push more board based interaction, and obviously there would need to be more indirect changes to ensure it (Main things I thought of are heavy nerfs to combo and handbuff decks, reworks to infinite value/damage cards and alternative wincons, nerfs to card draw in general, reworking late game payoffs and wincons, and increased starting health for all decks.)
With 7/7 in stats, Dr. Boom REMAINS one of the best seven cost minions in the game, especially to evolve into or summon. So many seven cost minions have 4/4 or comparable stats that he's technically an Evolve highroll.
I’ve reached legend with Secret Hunter the past two seasons and never thought about how the highest cost card in the deck is the 6 mana titan and two 5 mana 5 damage weapons, that get discounted to 0 through secrets.
With the direction hearthstone is going in right now, i think it's unreasonable to expect it being any slower ever. It's like playing chess and expecting rpg mechanics at this point, it's just not for you. If this game had different matchmaking and lobbies with house rules, more formats than 2 and stuff like that, it would be different, but unprofitable and money is this game's purpose. Most people don't care about card design or deckbuilding, they just copy a deck and play ranked because they don't even know that you can do anything else in other card games.
I've been playing only the Demon Hunter AI bots and puzzles and it's super fun and better for my mental health. Only time I jump into VS other players is with XP quests and like a joke on que the first game will be some absolute bullshit and I'm like "yup" complete my quest then leave back to solo adventure.
as someone who was away for like 4 years from Hearthstone (I played between 2016-2020) the power creep is even more "visible" lol When I first cam back, and played a few games and I was immediately greeted by Titans and the new Reno, I was very confused lol... even most of the "common" cards felt like they had the power level of Legendaries 4 years ago xD Your example is so perfect as well... I remember Twisting Nether being a good card... and now you have a card with an extra body and a lot of interesting effects for only one Mana more XD
I think the current design team has two highly detrimental to a competitive game mentalities, "The different classes getting access to every resource through slightly different means counts as class diversity" and "cards just need to feel extremely good to play for as little effort as possible to maximize enjoyment per turn" but every turn being a full combo and possible damage push makes combos feel repetitive and the person on the other end just gets to watch themselves lose with a full hand of resources a decent board and 20 hp on turn 6 because "combo=fun so combo every turn=more fun" and as for class diversity I get that they want everyone to get to play their cards and have access to their resources but that doesnt mean every class needs everything all the time, i know that getting stuck a bum hand and no vard draw or good plays feels bad but making it so that rarely happens again makes the game a combo centric hellscape where no one ever runs out of gas and you are in constant danger of losing every single turn, and just making the way you get access to the resources between classes just makes some classes do the same thkng as others but worse, it doesnt diversify anything but power level of the same strategies by gate keeping them differently. Idk I still love me some Death Knight and some Zoo Warlock, but I've grown numb to the fact that everyone pops off every turn so in reality no one ever pops off.
Back in 2015 I was reminiscing about playing caveman yugioh with how fast the game got and all the powercreep. The last few years in hearthstone have been a blur to me but to be honest everything started going downhill since ungoro. I remember I bought 30 packs and blizzard gave me 30 more packs for free because they messed up the drop rates for everyone. But yeah the power levels of cards felt out of whack since then.
I think the point you make later in the video about big cards never being worth it is the real reason everything is so fast now. We still see some big cards get played - Zillix, especially, is still in like every deck. It isn't a problem with games ending before later turns (at least not always) - it's more that there's no reason to ever play an expensive minion when removal is so plentiful and cheap. It's just too high investment unless it does something immediately, before your opponent can interact.
The funny thing is so much of the power of these top tier decks use the "class identity" of Hunter. Flood the board with cheap minions. But Hunter isn't even on the list Zeddy was showing in the first few minutes of the video. Everyone is kind of a better hunter than hunter.
Unfortunately, power creep is the easy way to ensure new expansions are relevant, and in the business world the easy way equals the cheapest way, and thus the preferred way. There are ways in which power level can be brought down and have new cards remain relevant. For example, in one expansion you can make one set of strategies the strongest, but intentionally weave in a serious weakness that you don't exploit that expansion (for example, you could have aggro decks that heavily depend on 2-health minions). Next expansion you lower the overall power level and favor another strategy that doesn't have that same weakness, but also include tools to exploit the weakness of the previous expansion's strategy (in this case lots of AoE that deals 2 damage). This way you can make the new cards remain relevant, even though the average power level goes down... But once again, that's not the easy way, so don't expect to see that happen ever.
So are you saying they're closer to tempo decks? Elemental decks seem to be tempo (Although gaslighter can OTK). But yeah, lots of early kills get annoying in general
the hybridization of decks really hurts the game imo. it's frustrating playing control/midrange, waiting for the aggro deck to run out of steam and they just dont. or worse, it was actually a combo deck the whole time.
This. it feels like there is no variety anymore. I enjoyed playing midrange and control decks, but I am essentially forced to play aggro if I want to win a game. Dying turn 5 to a paladin that just floods the board with massive buffed minions just isn't fun. In my opinion, the past two sets have made the state of the game worse than United in Stormwind.
I feel like this is just kinda something that happens to card games. Like didn't magic also have this problem where at some point the only viable way to play a big card was to cheat it out and for it to immediately do something? I know for a fact this happened with yugioh around pendulum and link era where it became impossible to do things like tribute summon and still win.
Lots of people have talked about it, but most of them have already left, because this has been slowly getting worse for years, and Bliz has basically admitted to wanting the game to be like this, so there's really no chance of improvement.
The mid range shot in basketball is virtually non existent anymore. Its been power creeped by the 3 point shot. Same situation with old HS cards. This is to be expected.
the latest symptom of this dead game is my reno otk priest just hit legend yesterday, because so many have quit that the only players remaining are noobs
I know this wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I would rather have more random card generation in my hand than card draw. Decks are so darn consistent due to card draw. I am a STRONG advocate for always having something good to do every turn, but card draw is just not as fun as just simple value for to card generation. And then of course the games are more unique then.
Norwis cut this card and a lot of other cards, becasue he faced almost just miracle rogues, and the only cards he playd was bunch of tech cards to increase mana on spells to disrupt the rogue. Not becasue the paladin titan is too slow. It's useless in rogue Match up.
I think HS should have respected class identity like Magic respected color pie identity. When every class can do what every other class does with marginally few differences, everything is broken in the same way and eventually it just all becomes kinda sorta meaningless. Like the classes arent relevant, the type of deck isn't relevant, the only relevant things and wincons and how fast you get to them. its also because HS devs refuse to reuse past keywords, and instead opt for making more simple broken effects. We need more complicated and only kinda good effects. Who would play a conditional complicated wincon when you can just handbuff paladin your way to victory
Yess! Spot removal has become too efficient and early game minions are too stronk. If they didn't make those as good, power creep would slow down A TON and the game would be more enjoyable, I think.
I wouldnt even care about the power creep if all the classes did broken shit (because then nothing is actually broken), but theres always 2 or 3 classes that are significantly more broken while others get throwaway cards that wont matter in 2 expansions. Pretty sad.
Ironically enough, there are a ton of classes that are viable across the board (outside of Mage and Hunter at the current moment, basically every class has some meta or niche deck), and yet everything feels homogenous in terms of game feel. Power creep itself is something thats always going to be a problem, lets be completely honest its not something they can just flip a switch to stop, but the amount can be toned down(which leeds into the next problem). Balance patch cycles have had a very poor impact in the past couple expansions. Some cards are just not being hit hard enough, or are just changed in bizarre ways that ultimately dont effect the efficiency of the card(An example of this was splish splash whelp going from a 2/1 to a 1/1: this did not impact the cards power in a meaningful way).
I'd say reactivity is dead, and that's not necessarily bad. Look at how many decks are viable, almost all classes have unique strategies that see play, so I'd say Perils was a success. Many decks still can go late, Overheal, Handbuff, DK, etc, but still have proactive tools.
Left the game when those titans were relised. Sargeras looked busted. Got back a few day ago to play some 3 blood death knight and got killed by druid turn 3. Not even 2 minutes into the game
There is a very easy solution to some of these aggressive combo-oriented decks: "but not less than 1 mana"... Also, as an example, why was Zarimi nerfed that way but there was no mana increase? Zarimi should be at 7 mana to be fairer. But yeah, there is too much combo stuff going on right now. And some of the recent buffs were just stupid tbh. Like Buttons at 4 mana? Why don't you instead nerf some of the more aggressive stuff, so that Buttons can find a home at 5 mana? There were many other cards that are a lot worse and didn't get any buffs. Their buffing policy makes no sense whatsoever
Easy change. Heros start the game with 60 Health. If thats not enough, add a cap to the amount of card you can draw and allow whales to spend $10 per game to remove the cap. Blizzard would like the last part and so would I, cause I’d laugh every time my opponent lost $10.
Classic blizzard with their god awful balance teams. Was an issue in overwatch too. They have no design philosophy and they just power creep the hell out of everything. Every class gets to do everything. It makes their games so unbelievably boring
I like grindy matches going back and forth. But not fatigue dont get me wrong but 15-20 turn matches. It is almost impossible in standard due to combo/aggroo and it is clearly impossible in wild due to either inevitable win cons (wild seed etc) or stupid gimmicks like gnoll rogue flooding board with 3-5/8-8 s by turn 3. It is not about generating value for a while now, it is about maximizing the value you are getting from each mana which is just math, there is always a "correct way" to play nowadays. Check rarrans video about first ever hearthstone tournament and you will goncrazy how many options there are, all are good and bad in their own ways.
I feel like the game becoming too fast is the only way reno and sargeras and aman’thul can ever be considered “bad” It definitely hurts me being a control player seeing this especially because of how great alota late game cards are what they need to do is go back nerf or rework alota the staple cards and slow down the game
This is actually the reason why I stopped playing hearthstone. Just feels like there is no fun deck I really enjoy playing. The game is just way to fast now and trying to play slwoer decks is impossible, because you just get blown out from hand without any counterplay.
and when you get past turn five, you go to turn 30. NO inbetween. its just disgusting.
agreed.
Attrition decks were my favourite. That archetype has been dead for years at this point
Only deck I play is espionage cutlass rogue in wild and it’s fun in low ranks past gold it sucks
That is true.
I think another huge issue and a reason why people don't want to play control is almost any deck being able to generate an ocean of random cards giving them infinite value. People are never out of steam and never out of answers because every deck has cards that generate cards, that generate two more cards, that generate a card, that gegenrates three more cards etc. And because the power level of cards in general is so high, the chance that the random cards are good is high too. It is such a tedious slugfest and you feel like both players are just machine gunning out random cards until someone gets very lucky and wins. There is barely any thinking or tactic involved, you just crank up the slot machine and pray.
My solution: Make it so cards that generate cards can't generate cards that give you more cards. For example make it so Infinitize the Maxitude only ever pulls from a pool of cards like Frostbolt, Counterspell, Fireball etc. Make an exception for cards that just draw from your deck. Make people actually have to think again and not just throw stuff against the wall until something sticks.
It's ridiculous! I often burn draws esp on coin if I'm holding it for a bomb. Every card replaces itself!
I'd like to see something like "to generate a card, use 1 mana"
If you don't have 1 mana, the card you play that would generate a card just doesn't.
I think THAT would actually go a long way.
They need to stop power creeping cards and when rotation happens just tone down the power level of future expansions
When thats been tried it has led to some horrible expansions like boomsday project. I think the answer is to make each set have good cards but not exactly synergize with each other too much.
People did not seem to appreciate that with Rastakhan's Rumble.
@@shadowpriest2574 well it's what needs to happen in order to get HS playable for all strategies otherwise it's a dead game
Well simultaneously, if an expansion is powerful, we the players will feel the need to buy packs to keep up.
Powerful expansion = money
@@grahamflatt5838then nerf stuff and rotate its the only way
As Kibler said at some point: cards SHOULD cost mana.
Yugioh/pokemon players in shambles
The problem with card design recently is that it feels they are designed in a vaccum, they just create busted effects and randomly assign them to different classes, interactions are not thought through, balance was thrown out the window and testing seems non-existent
the druid location that discovers a taunt minion and reopens when you gain armor, combined with the mech that gains you 3 armor when you us3 a location, instantly uses the whole location when needed....
its not BROKEN but it SCREAMS "poorly thought out, bad game design"
I'd like to see a compilation video of all Zeddy's opponents using hex, transform, etc on his Dr. Stichensew in arena
Now that’s good content lol
I have been hoping for a hard reset now for over 2 years. I think we should skip one expansion, to reset ALL the cards. Rework them, nerf them, buff them. That way we can slow the game down, get the power level on a more healthy path and the game will feel fresh again.
You're telling blizzard to give up quarterly profits. You have a better chance of getting a superpower.
Literally never gonna happen 💰
Yes, pick 3/4 core mechanics and reset EVERYTHING to that core.
You're describing HS 2.0. I want it so bad, but they are in too deep.
Yup, balance team is incompetent. Not long til The Bazaar now.
reynad about to cash in like crazy on hearstones downfall
Always said that too
incompetent since darkmoon faire...i posted a huge list of nerfs on the official forum but they ignore it..just show how they dont care about balance
@@bllllood I've been thinking of doing something similar. But then I realised that they'd have to give so many refunds (including runestones because of diamond bundles) that even in the small chance they care/see it, it'll never happen.
The heat death of the universe will happen before The Bazaar is ever released.
I was just playing reno shaman, and guess what, druid otk's me on turn 6, dealing over 20 damage from hand... I honestly don't think the devs play their own game at this point, like what the hell is this?? Remember when we cried about astalor's 8 mana 14 damage on turn 10?
Why do you not play 4 mana 2/5 pirate that makes cards from other classes cost 2 more? Peoples still use platebreaker against armor druid that saw no play in 2 years, the playrate of cobold sticky finger was x2 more than playrate of kingsbane. I think it is your bad that you don't understand and underestimate tech cards...
@@impkiller5932 because it doesnt fit in my deck and it doesn't really matter. They have more than enough damage to kill both me and the minion and once its dead, druid's shit costs 0 again. its not my fault that the design team is a failure.
@@impkiller5932 also, mana isnt a problem , by turn 6 druid's already at 13 lol
@@generalkenobi4818 tell me you know nothing about game but don't tell me you know nothing, in wild all control decks run the 3 mana dragon that makes cards cost bot less than 2. This card can win the turn it was played against rogues or any other aggro deck, loatheab is still meta even after years it was released. Mana tech cards are insane powerfull, like the house 2/3 that was increasing each card you draw cost 1 more nerfed almost instantly.
@@impkiller5932 no lol...once u start putting niche 2/5, your winrate goes down
The problem is you can’t solve power creep with weakening new sets. If they want to do this right (and make a lot of players upset), they could fully rotate all of the sets in standard when the new season starts while printing sets with weaker cards. They won’t ever do that though.
What j wish they would do, rotate all sets at the start of the next year, bring back 3 old sets, and make a new, weak set, on power with the 3 wild sets. Ideally, the old sets would not have been in standard together, so that standard is still new, with maybe some very minor tweaks. For example, you could make it spooky themed and bring back Whispers of the Old Gods, Witchwood and Madness at the Darkmoon Faire, ideally with added Demon Hunter and Death Knight cards
Some thing they could do in addition would be instead of making one set, make 3 Mini-sets, one for each old expansion. Not sure what they would put instead of the normal miniset then though...
And give refund for all cards that rotated a year earlier? Are you dumb?
@@gameboyj6309you’d have to add all those expansions to the core set or you’d basically fuck over anyone who didn’t already have those cards.
They really need to nerf card draw. Sleep Under The Stars is 100% the most problematic card in hearthstone right now and i feel like it slips under people's radar.
1 mana draw 2
4 mana draw 4
7 mana draw 6
INSANE flexibility or you can gain a billion armor. Whatever happened to managing resources?
You forgot "Manathirst 9: Refresh 2 mana crystals". That card is just broken.
???
@@juryrigg5568basically guy above is saying if you play this card at 9 mana you get 2 mana for free because if you refresh 3 times that’s 2 mana gained
I dont agree, its a solid card but it doesnt do anything before 7 mana. Some druid lists dont even run it
Wild: Rogue 1 mana draw 4.... 1 mana draw 3.... this is a problem too
their afraid of reno at 8-9, but give sonya rogue infinite fireball + heal, and people already gave up on the format while waiting for nerfs and better buffs, otherwise just remove every +7 mana cards if they don't want them in their game
Its insane to me, that there is an 1 mana neutral 3/2, that gives a minion in you hand +1+1... There was a time, when this had been played as a 2 mana minion.
"Are late game cards dead?"
Yes they are and always will be. Any time they release a high mana card designed to win on turn 10+ everyone complains until that card gets nerfed to the ground.
This is the philosophy that has pretty much asserted the dominance of paladin over the past couple years really.
wheel of death was the most fun I had in a while. I really hope they unnerf it, still don’t get why they hit it with 3 nerfs
I mean because if that one card just makes you instantly win on turn 10+, then you just build your entire deck to purely stall and ignore your opponent amd just remove everything. This is not fun for the opponent. Atleast if everybody dies on turn 7-8 it was a rather quick game
@@ДюсековИльяс Dying on Turn 5 consistently isn't fun for the opponent either. You cant ignore aggro has historically been a problem in hearthstone.
@@williamhooper3541 i mean atleast agro is fast and lets you do your thing. In comparison to priest stealing all your minions, warlock killing everything or mage casting 50 different random spells to kill you
You know what is a bigger problem? The absolute boatload of bugs that occur since the last patch. Games getting stuck, achievements not popping up, shop not working, games failing to start, reward track rewards not coming through, broken animations and the list goes on.
Not to forget, the expensive skins don't stay linked to their decks and the game keeps giving you any of your skins after every time you exit the game...
as i see it, 5 mana 6/5 is the biggest a minion should be to be cost effective, based on the math of what it takes to clear it, the number of minions it can up-trade into, and for the amount of time you have to wait to play it.
seeing as sinrunner was a 5 mana 6/5 with a massive upside of a deadly shot deathrattle that no one knows exists, yeah, game too fast.
When pit fighter came out back in the day it was considered to have "premium stats" as a 5 mana 5/6, which works well if we consider premium stats for 4 mana to be 4/5.
Control died with all the win cons and combo damage from hand.
Its crazy decks can deal so much damage from nothing in a game where the only interaction u have with your opponent is what they have on board.
Super on point with the problems of too much value and power.
This is the first expansion I haven't spent a dime on, for cards or cosmetics or anything. I'm thoroughly disgusted by the state of standard that I will not support this team in any financial way until they completely reverse course and stop the ridiculous power creep every new set brings.
i dont think HS can be saved at this moment, even with a NEW team. GGS.
only way to save is go back to old HS and delete these new cards
With this incompetant dev team hs is completely screwed
its past its prime. OG devs and ideas got swallowed by time, all is left is amalgamation of cards. Some time later this game will die
I would say it's not that Sargeras itself is bad, but the slow warlock archetype is, since their only proactive curve of forge into alley pact doesn't work anymore
Running it in Fatigue Warlock it feels pretty good
Sargeras doesn't need to be nerfed I'd say it's on par with all of the other titans it's just all of them are very very good and power crept
"When everyone is a super. No one will be."
One thing can really making change is making hero health 60
In decks using ten cards more than 6 mana but i don't think devs like late game decks problem is this its more fast than marvel snap
the modern "Have counterspell/oh-my-yogg/objection/okani up or I change how the game works for the rest of eternity" cards are why I only play solo content anymore
reno ruined sargeras
I've said multiple times before, we need a year of rastakans rumble. Low power year where once rotation happens they can reset the power lvl
How can we make most players want the same? People just want to play broken things every turn, most of those who cared for wholesomeness of the game left already
@@grakuynosc7270 ya that is completely true, it will be hard to do. The only thing I can think of is just make interesting archetypes.
handbuff is so good because it can buff floodgates that turn the broken stuff off without completely tanking the consistency or curve of the deck. I hope hearthstone doesn't go the mystic mine approach to slowing the game down; that would be universally hated. I see that as more likely though than a recalibrated card design approach.
I started to hate the 3 mana copy anything cards when the warrior one appeared, and they just keep making them
Please make them friendly, it’s so frustrating to pay for an expensive minion that gets stolen for 3.
My biggest probelm with aggro decks is that no amount of board clears helps when all their minions have charge or they help deal direct damage. They need baord clears with lots of healing or armor gain to have a chance.
When I saw DK's new 2-mana 4/4 across 3 bodies that can survive 2 board clears AND has Rush AND has no synergy requirements, I uninstalled. I'm pretty sure they have no sense of balance or good design over there at Blizzard HQ
0:40 - 1:01 Sums it up. It wasn't just the Devs fault, aggro/tempo players asked for this. Be careful what you wish for, now everyone plays less and yall wonder why they increased the quest requirements
The game only continues to get faster and less interactive and it never seems to get addressed.
In MTG every color can access mana ramp, but in hearthstone it's mostly been restricted to a single class. As long as the developers maintain this restriction it will make the more expensive cards worse for all classes that aren't druids.
Strange how the two games I play, HS and Mortal Kombat, are having similar issues. Characters in MK1 don’t all have clear archetypes. MK has rush, zone, set up, defensive, and a few just “all rounded” characters… but MK1 has so many characters that just feel… lost. Just like the decks nowadays. I only play BGs in HS and it’s been that way since Badlands. Reno and Brann can suck my nuggets.
Tekken 8 is similar, the well rounded characters got insane rushdown tools.
While the rushdown characters who already had broken rushdown got the few holes in their gameplay patched up making them very all round.
@slippers8000 Why do fighting game devs insist on watering down their games and mechanics of those games to cater to a wider audience..? Oh wait, I know why, money. That’s the only goal anymore. Ed Boon used to be passionate about making over the top gore with great lore and shit… nowadays… just sad.
In mtg we call decks by their color combinations. Really helps with explaining how the deck functions... Like how Jund( red, green, black) is a midrangy "fair" deck that aims to disrupt your opponent's early, play cheap threats in the midgame and win with grindy threats in the late game. I see hearthstone is at this point now, where you might as well call frost death night, buttons frost midrange. Kinda mixing the two classes together. Kinda happy to see that they are finally doing this in hearthstone because there are still different types of strategies that probably have not been found yet. Now, will they be good strategies, who knows, but they are there.
I've stopped thinking this is an accident when Deckhand and Leeroy were added to the core set.
Maybe if they wanted to slow down quest completion they could make it so you don't play 15 cards a turn
I really noticed this with the Lackey set. Every card draws you another card. I suppose Hearthstone has always been a game where people sit there holding 6 or 7 or more cards all game but this reduces an aspect of a card game. Traditional aggro decks can’t get through all the junk they can easily put on the board. It seems pretty crazy out there. Someone attacked me on turn 4 with a 42/42 1/1 beast/haste creature (my turn 3). Combo can still win apparently
Really agree with what you said about Reska and yogg punishing expensive cards.
The reason is expansion relevance. When an expansion gets released without powercreep, it competes with 3-5 other expansions and a core set for usage on constructed decks. This means that like 75%-85% of the new cards are below par and do not get played in top decks.
This would cut sales, as people can keep playing with old cards and craft a few good cards that can improve their decks. If the expansions are powerful, people will buy the packs.
Tourist is such an egregious example as well because not only do you need cards for your class you need new cards from the other class as well
Fitting video since I got a quest "Play 6 cards that cost 7 or more" today but everyone's playing cards that are 6 or less...
The only ways i see this changing would be 3 options.
1. Wait for rotation and tone down expansions. Will probably not work unfortunately because that means for the expansions previous still being very powerful and the new ones being super lackluster and would probably lose peoples interest in hearthstone anyway.
2. Make a hearthstone 2 or something it is not what i would want, but a new game with limited expansions or brand new expansions starting from scratch. This i dont think is a good idea as there are as many cards and memories that would be thrown away for a lot of people they would have to try and compensate those that may lose cosmetics on cards.
3. I think the only semi-realistic option is to so something similar to dead by daylight where a while ago they did a huge patch changing nearly every perk in the game turning it on its head. Doing this with hearthstone and changing nearly everycard in the game even old cards could make the game worse or better, but could be very tailored to change the wild and standard metas to how the devolopers and hopefully players would want.
You’re entirely right. They had good ideas like Aranna Demon Hunter but they failed to follow through with it. They didn’t give demon Hunter any cards that do anything when they take damage, although they certainly could have.
I love your in-depth view if the current situation Zeddy :)
Do you remember when Savage Roar and Force of Natur was an insane Druid combo, that dealed 14 dmg with 2 cards and couldnt bypass taunt? Oh Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I want fighting for board actually. Personally, I think the best approach would be to nerf the hell out of removal and poof effects (and their likes especially), buff the health of a lot of minions but nerf their attack, and nerf the hell out of cards that can snowball out of control - mainly by making their effects once per turn (for example Sharpshooter, Observer of Myths, Crimson Clergy, Sonya, Etc.) Those are the direct changes I'd make to push more board based interaction, and obviously there would need to be more indirect changes to ensure it (Main things I thought of are heavy nerfs to combo and handbuff decks, reworks to infinite value/damage cards and alternative wincons, nerfs to card draw in general, reworking late game payoffs and wincons, and increased starting health for all decks.)
With 7/7 in stats, Dr. Boom REMAINS one of the best seven cost minions in the game, especially to evolve into or summon. So many seven cost minions have 4/4 or comparable stats that he's technically an Evolve highroll.
I’ve reached legend with Secret Hunter the past two seasons and never thought about how the highest cost card in the deck is the 6 mana titan and two 5 mana 5 damage weapons, that get discounted to 0 through secrets.
With the direction hearthstone is going in right now, i think it's unreasonable to expect it being any slower ever. It's like playing chess and expecting rpg mechanics at this point, it's just not for you. If this game had different matchmaking and lobbies with house rules, more formats than 2 and stuff like that, it would be different, but unprofitable and money is this game's purpose. Most people don't care about card design or deckbuilding, they just copy a deck and play ranked because they don't even know that you can do anything else in other card games.
I've been playing only the Demon Hunter AI bots and puzzles and it's super fun and better for my mental health. Only time I jump into VS other players is with XP quests and like a joke on que the first game will be some absolute bullshit and I'm like "yup" complete my quest then leave back to solo adventure.
as someone who was away for like 4 years from Hearthstone (I played between 2016-2020) the power creep is even more "visible" lol
When I first cam back, and played a few games and I was immediately greeted by Titans and the new Reno, I was very confused lol... even most of the "common" cards felt like they had the power level of Legendaries 4 years ago xD
Your example is so perfect as well... I remember Twisting Nether being a good card... and now you have a card with an extra body and a lot of interesting effects for only one Mana more XD
I think the current design team has two highly detrimental to a competitive game mentalities, "The different classes getting access to every resource through slightly different means counts as class diversity" and "cards just need to feel extremely good to play for as little effort as possible to maximize enjoyment per turn" but every turn being a full combo and possible damage push makes combos feel repetitive and the person on the other end just gets to watch themselves lose with a full hand of resources a decent board and 20 hp on turn 6 because "combo=fun so combo every turn=more fun" and as for class diversity I get that they want everyone to get to play their cards and have access to their resources but that doesnt mean every class needs everything all the time, i know that getting stuck a bum hand and no vard draw or good plays feels bad but making it so that rarely happens again makes the game a combo centric hellscape where no one ever runs out of gas and you are in constant danger of losing every single turn, and just making the way you get access to the resources between classes just makes some classes do the same thkng as others but worse, it doesnt diversify anything but power level of the same strategies by gate keeping them differently. Idk I still love me some Death Knight and some Zoo Warlock, but I've grown numb to the fact that everyone pops off every turn so in reality no one ever pops off.
10:17 One of my favorite cards ever, built a whole deck around getting him out turn 5/6/7
Back in 2015 I was reminiscing about playing caveman yugioh with how fast the game got and all the powercreep.
The last few years in hearthstone have been a blur to me but to be honest everything started going downhill since ungoro. I remember I bought 30 packs and blizzard gave me 30 more packs for free because they messed up the drop rates for everyone. But yeah the power levels of cards felt out of whack since then.
I think the point you make later in the video about big cards never being worth it is the real reason everything is so fast now.
We still see some big cards get played - Zillix, especially, is still in like every deck. It isn't a problem with games ending before later turns (at least not always) - it's more that there's no reason to ever play an expensive minion when removal is so plentiful and cheap. It's just too high investment unless it does something immediately, before your opponent can interact.
The funny thing is so much of the power of these top tier decks use the "class identity" of Hunter. Flood the board with cheap minions. But Hunter isn't even on the list Zeddy was showing in the first few minutes of the video. Everyone is kind of a better hunter than hunter.
Unfortunately, power creep is the easy way to ensure new expansions are relevant, and in the business world the easy way equals the cheapest way, and thus the preferred way.
There are ways in which power level can be brought down and have new cards remain relevant. For example, in one expansion you can make one set of strategies the strongest, but intentionally weave in a serious weakness that you don't exploit that expansion (for example, you could have aggro decks that heavily depend on 2-health minions). Next expansion you lower the overall power level and favor another strategy that doesn't have that same weakness, but also include tools to exploit the weakness of the previous expansion's strategy (in this case lots of AoE that deals 2 damage). This way you can make the new cards remain relevant, even though the average power level goes down...
But once again, that's not the easy way, so don't expect to see that happen ever.
I miss so much playing my stonehill defender and elise in every controll deck! Bring back old hs
Best Warrior deck is Odyn with 46%....Blizzard needs to nerf more warrior cards
I miss the days when the opponent would put Dire Mole on the field on turn one and you thought "how the fuck do I deal with this?"
Perils in storm-wind time?
Aggro feels bad considering every deck has life steal. I think most decks are midrange with burst options.
I love it when an aggro deck plays board clears on my big creatures and heals back to full for 2 mana
So are you saying they're closer to tempo decks? Elemental decks seem to be tempo (Although gaslighter can OTK). But yeah, lots of early kills get annoying in general
may adding more signature cards will fix the problem ?
Been trying to climb with the triple blood deck you highlighted but I continuously die to concierge druid and elemental rogue 😢
the hybridization of decks really hurts the game imo. it's frustrating playing control/midrange, waiting for the aggro deck to run out of steam and they just dont. or worse, it was actually a combo deck the whole time.
This. it feels like there is no variety anymore. I enjoyed playing midrange and control decks, but I am essentially forced to play aggro if I want to win a game. Dying turn 5 to a paladin that just floods the board with massive buffed minions just isn't fun. In my opinion, the past two sets have made the state of the game worse than United in Stormwind.
At this point just get rid of mama since the game already plays like Yu-Gi-Oh
I feel like this is just kinda something that happens to card games. Like didn't magic also have this problem where at some point the only viable way to play a big card was to cheat it out and for it to immediately do something? I know for a fact this happened with yugioh around pendulum and link era where it became impossible to do things like tribute summon and still win.
Magic has the virtue of Commander, where 4 people ballance each other out, which is the most played format for a reason.
Tribute summoning was kind of dead ever since xyz came out tbh
Lots of people have talked about it, but most of them have already left, because this has been slowly getting worse for years, and Bliz has basically admitted to wanting the game to be like this, so there's really no chance of improvement.
You have to accept the fact that they are just waiting for it to completely die and milking as much as they can while they still have a chance
I agree so hard that I don't even have anything to add... just yeah, Zeddy straight up right.
~also I'm still mad they removed Classic.
Very fun designed meta, you delete a board of 15/15 worth of stats on turn 5 just to have them play 20/20 worth of stats the very next turn
Every time Zeddy says control is dead, I immediately queue into 4 big druids that win the game with control cards, wheel warlock, and rainbow Dk
You must be in bronze or somethin, would love to see some of that.
@@RedEyeStorm7 😂😂😂
The mid range shot in basketball is virtually non existent anymore. Its been power creeped by the 3 point shot.
Same situation with old HS cards. This is to be expected.
the latest symptom of this dead game is my reno otk priest just hit legend yesterday, because so many have quit that the only players remaining are noobs
I know this wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I would rather have more random card generation in my hand than card draw. Decks are so darn consistent due to card draw. I am a STRONG advocate for always having something good to do every turn, but card draw is just not as fun as just simple value for to card generation. And then of course the games are more unique then.
Priest used to be otk with inner fire I believe it was called, doing the health doubling then attack
Remember when everyone was on their heels about classes with too many discovery effect... yeah here we are.
Last time late games card were good was Zilliax Inventor boom and hydration station meta. People just hated it. 🤔
Norwis cut this card and a lot of other cards, becasue he faced almost just miracle rogues, and the only cards he playd was bunch of tech cards to increase mana on spells to disrupt the rogue. Not becasue the paladin titan is too slow. It's useless in rogue Match up.
I think HS should have respected class identity like Magic respected color pie identity. When every class can do what every other class does with marginally few differences, everything is broken in the same way and eventually it just all becomes kinda sorta meaningless. Like the classes arent relevant, the type of deck isn't relevant, the only relevant things and wincons and how fast you get to them. its also because HS devs refuse to reuse past keywords, and instead opt for making more simple broken effects. We need more complicated and only kinda good effects. Who would play a conditional complicated wincon when you can just handbuff paladin your way to victory
Yess! Spot removal has become too efficient and early game minions are too stronk. If they didn't make those as good, power creep would slow down A TON and the game would be more enjoyable, I think.
i actually prefer the meta now. i really really hate control decks and how it results in long games. i prefer games
I wouldnt even care about the power creep if all the classes did broken shit (because then nothing is actually broken), but theres always 2 or 3 classes that are significantly more broken while others get throwaway cards that wont matter in 2 expansions. Pretty sad.
The bearded guy made a nice point here, I didn't realize it but that's why Ladder is so boring, every meta deck is strong at any point of the match 🎉
Ironically enough, there are a ton of classes that are viable across the board (outside of Mage and Hunter at the current moment, basically every class has some meta or niche deck), and yet everything feels homogenous in terms of game feel. Power creep itself is something thats always going to be a problem, lets be completely honest its not something they can just flip a switch to stop, but the amount can be toned down(which leeds into the next problem).
Balance patch cycles have had a very poor impact in the past couple expansions. Some cards are just not being hit hard enough, or are just changed in bizarre ways that ultimately dont effect the efficiency of the card(An example of this was splish splash whelp going from a 2/1 to a 1/1: this did not impact the cards power in a meaningful way).
I'd say reactivity is dead, and that's not necessarily bad. Look at how many decks are viable, almost all classes have unique strategies that see play, so I'd say Perils was a success. Many decks still can go late, Overheal, Handbuff, DK, etc, but still have proactive tools.
Has anyone noticed there's almost no positive feed back on this game anymore tbh I don't even know why I still play it
Sunk cost. I think your quest log is full
Left the game when those titans were relised. Sargeras looked busted. Got back a few day ago to play some 3 blood death knight and got killed by druid turn 3. Not even 2 minutes into the game
I miss my 40 card triple win condition Druid. Yes it was powerful if you had Guff online, but it still had to wait to later in the game to pop off.
There is a very easy solution to some of these aggressive combo-oriented decks: "but not less than 1 mana"... Also, as an example, why was Zarimi nerfed that way but there was no mana increase? Zarimi should be at 7 mana to be fairer. But yeah, there is too much combo stuff going on right now. And some of the recent buffs were just stupid tbh. Like Buttons at 4 mana? Why don't you instead nerf some of the more aggressive stuff, so that Buttons can find a home at 5 mana? There were many other cards that are a lot worse and didn't get any buffs. Their buffing policy makes no sense whatsoever
I'm not only the power creep but also the game dev's philosophy of faster games
make sarg great again
Clark loves Pen Flinger :)
Easy change. Heros start the game with 60 Health. If thats not enough, add a cap to the amount of card you can draw and allow whales to spend $10 per game to remove the cap. Blizzard would like the last part and so would I, cause I’d laugh every time my opponent lost $10.
Classic blizzard with their god awful balance teams. Was an issue in overwatch too. They have no design philosophy and they just power creep the hell out of everything. Every class gets to do everything. It makes their games so unbelievably boring
I like grindy matches going back and forth. But not fatigue dont get me wrong but 15-20 turn matches. It is almost impossible in standard due to combo/aggroo and it is clearly impossible in wild due to either inevitable win cons (wild seed etc) or stupid gimmicks like gnoll rogue flooding board with 3-5/8-8 s by turn 3. It is not about generating value for a while now, it is about maximizing the value you are getting from each mana which is just math, there is always a "correct way" to play nowadays. Check rarrans video about first ever hearthstone tournament and you will goncrazy how many options there are, all are good and bad in their own ways.
I feel like the game becoming too fast is the only way reno and sargeras and aman’thul can ever be considered “bad”
It definitely hurts me being a control player seeing this especially because of how great alota late game cards are what they need to do is go back nerf or rework alota the staple cards and slow down the game
Doc Boom used to summon 4 bo-bomb. At 2 for today's game, it's garbage. Even if he'd fill the board, his usefulness would be questionable.
Dr. Boom has always summoned two boom bots?
Last time I had fun in ranked was in Titans. It feels like we stepped on a pedal and are ramming through the roof with every single expansion.
The biggest problem right now is that the quest system is seriously buggy! They don't progress when players do them.
i may have seen that myself. restarting the game worked for me.
Yes, but still not for other players, including me.