Any device you put on your network should be subject to an information security /cybersecurity review. Not to mention firewall rules can be set to block both incoming and outgoing data streams. If a vendor needs to access a piece of equipment or update software you schedule a time period and you have your technical staff oversee whatever is done. Not to mention you can just make certain specific ports available. You can either mitigate this risk or accept the risk. Your choice.
I will add, the wifi connected to these unit need have no internet connection. The port cranes in the sixties never had any wifi. Data collection need only be communicated with the port server to get container assignment and relay offload details.
Indeed, if you fail to air gap critical networks and systems, do not perform regular network traffic analysis, use plain internet connections rather than VPNs and the like, and fail to take similar basic security precautions you kind of deserve whatever happens next. There's a solid argument to be made for these cranes not having any way to get to the internet. Even for the car infotainment systems that I worked on for a major car manufacturer we had security audits. It did take a few scandals for those to be put in place (like plain text info being sent to the central server...), but it helped immensely with weeding out potential issues. For us developers, the company's own servers were also only available after logging in via secure, on-premises VPN. Takes a lot of guesswork and paranoia out of security.
I agree.. I am an IT consultant and that is standard practice for any new medical equipment/devices are placed on the network. However.. maybe the concern is that the harbors who use them are not taking proper security proctocols and leaving them wide open? Here is an example.. I was working on a review for a building automation system controlling air handlers etc, we found that the vendor (a very large corp) did not have any security on these devices and were running a raspberry pi controller. It was the vendor's recommendation that we just install them.. no review needed. I would hope that the harbors or government would do their due diligence on new hardware.
So what do you do if one of your big pieces of kit has a micro controller from, say, Espressif that has the ability to set up its own ad-hoc non-wifi wireless network? Sure in theory those alone won't be able to get to the internet at large to communicate, but what happens if an unrelated Espressif micro controller is in range of the ones inside of your gear? What good is an air gap if you have a piece of industrial kit that can spin up its own network for communication? Are you monitoring all of the RF in the air of your air gap? Again, all in theory, but with the number of the things out there, kind of hard not to take that additional step.
Name ten of anything ! We won't admit it but the World Party has US by the you-know-whats. THEY just waiting for the best time to spring the trap. It's not Asian courage I admire. It is their long-view patience.
Thanks, Professor Sal! As we someday sit around our little survival fire pits, no electricity, no natural gas, no diesel, rationed feeble food supplies, only polluted rain water to drink ... 🤯 ... we will lift a cup to you who sounded the alarm. Thank you. 🥴
High D D We here in AUS sit around in our nice warm environment with plenty grains, coal and nat gas for elec, rare earth minerals, beef and lamb on the bbq, boating and fishing of everything etc.etc., while you Northerners are shivering. Cheers, I'll drink to your health, 28deg C (that's 83F to you foreigners) on my back deck as I gaze at the Lake and count the chineseum coal ships parked out the front awaiting loading !
The internet of things…..everything is subject to tampering ……motor cars, washing machines, container cranes…you name it it’s susceptible to a cyber attack….great video Sal.
Hi Sal, I find your series very informative. I do have a question regarding some of your statements in a previous video about the Jones act and LNG shipping to New England. You stated that the only pipeline that services NE. only supplys gas from the NY State Marcellus fields. But what about the upgrades to the Algonquin Gas Transmission Pipeline from 26 inches to 42 inches that brings gas from Pa. (upgraded service began in 2017)?
I was in Meba and we had the USA made cranes with GE drives. PASCO brand I think. I took a crane maintenance course and we did a field trip to our cranes in Port Newark . After that we visited the Longshoreman cranes that were brand new Chinese units. This was over 25 years ago and they had Two Chinese service techs that were there for years as part of the deal! Remove all the controls replace with Allen Bradley or Magnatec drives . The steel, motors , can stay. Meanwhile Air gap them! Turn off the internet.
You don't think there isn't something that controls those motors with a protected memory section the content of which only the Chinese manufacturer knows? I mean if that's true then you are safe, but if not.... PS micro controllers these days have the ability to set up their own wireless network that do not use wifi, ie your air gap has been circumvented.
Like every net engineer ever said. If you want it safe do not connect it to the internet. Why company's feel the need to online everything is beyond me. All major systems should be closed loop even if they need to online it for scheduled updates they could use another system that is online and transfer it to the closed system after its deemed safe. Same for performance data transfer it off then broadcast it. So simple but I know why they dont do this it would require a trained IT/systems engineer which would be over budget.
You're right, but you're asking a lot of lazy ass IT department heads who want to switch jobs every two or three months, and even more of the BAs whose ignorance they're trying to sate.
Pricing in the short term and long term has a lot of power over decisions. Its cheaper to have an automated system that broadcasts data from the cranes to a central system than to have someone actively baby the system.
Excellent information that every citizen should be aware of. Our government and people must be focused on conducting business in a manner that prevents us from being held hostage by China. This is serious business!
The port near me got new cranes a couple of years back, and they got delivered on a ship all standing bolt upright - I'm amazed it didn't capsize from all the weight aloft. And they took the old ones away for scrap.
I'm glad to hear about this issue of the vulnerable container cranes. It seems to reaffirm that to keep some ships capable of self loading with over haul gear, and trained longshoremen in place for the future, just in case the containers can't be used. Not as 'efficient' but it might be necessary.
@@isokabooks3758 What makes you think we are not concerned with iPhones? A gantry crane is a 24/7 365 feature of a port. An individual's iPhone or other mobile device is not.
@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 It is quite probable that as I write this an enormous computer is spying on me, you and and everyone else. Beware, Big Brother is hearing everything we say , everything we write and if your phone is in your pocket everywhere you go. If you have GPS in your car they hold you by the balls too. The end of personal freedom is just around the corner.
An other example of big business to looking for the interest of the nation, but just their own personal interest. America as a nation is dysfunctional.
I'm curious of what you know about the UN's Universal Postal Union and how it may be the source for why shipments out of China cost close to nothing, as a means to help 3rd world countries become more developed.
It is possible to implement layered security controls and zero trust best practices. But the question is, are proper security frameworks being used? Are the software bill of materials being tracked for patching, updating, and vulnerability analysis? Are quantum resistant encryption algorithms being used? Are security certificates and keys being rotated on a prudent schedule? And a benefit of open source is the possibility of auditing and testing but is anyone with cyber security expertise actually doing this ongoing analysis?
I always enjoy sharing with my significant other just how far ahead of the power curve on issues that eventually show up in the media you are, Sal. You explanation of the significance of such issues far exceeds anything ever reported in the main stream media. If I had a magic wand I think it would benefit our nation greatly if politicians in DC were required to hear a briefing from you on a regular basis to secure a better military presence at sea and to address all the other issues you present. I often reference your stories when reaching out to my senators in hopes they and their staffers are paying attention to your channel. Thanks again for all you do!
I totally agree. As a Canadian, I'm more removed from the impacts of shipping in the US. But as Sal has clearly articulated it is all part of the global system and conundrum - we are all connected. Great idea to get Prof Sal in front of the policy makers in DC! Anything that affects US security, domestically or internationally, ultimately impacts Canada.
The company I worked for got rid of the Lincoln single side welder that worked fine with a new Miller welding unit I realized that it could be linked to a monitoring terminal any where in the world and THAT made me uncomfortable. Big brother wanting us to be robots, and the slap in the face was we were in Cleveland Oh. the hometown of Lincoln Electric. Goodbye Demag thanks to TEREX selling us to KONA.
If you’re an artisan welder, you could be measured to teach the artificial welders in real time. Gives them a great starting point to take over your job.
Saw this story in the news. Wanted to know specifically how are they spying? 4:29 these cranes have uplinks. 4:46 they are connected through the internet. Container data to the crane operator is transferred over the internet? Container Data should be transferred on an Intranet. None of this should equipment should be hooked to the internet. Who's idea was that? Where is the IT department? In China?
That's stupid. These modern cranes are made to be integrated into robotic modern ports. Go look at their operation in Chancay, zero people, fully automated.
My family and myself worked longshore in LA harbor since the 1950's,,we remember when the Gantry cranes showed up with the containers,,I remember back in the day a new crane failed,,hit the deck of the ship,, they claimed the metal was bad,my Dad and brother ran cranes,, good job 👍
Also the fully automated terminals here at LA/LB like LBCT and Maersk don’t have UTR moving cargo in the yards. The strads are fully autonomous. If they push the “red button” the whole dock goes down.
Its interesting you bring up the bridge construction, I know another state that is doing something similar. Even with projects that we're meant to have the added benefit of creating local jobs, even if it costed more. But they eventually outsourced it to a foreign company to save money. Who then made up an excuse that they were unable to find the talent they needed in the region and were then allow to modify the contract with an exception to allow them to bring in staff from outside the region and outside the US.
Common engineering principle would tell you that basic redundancy is the order of the day. By that I mean manual overides to keep a crane operating when communications are lost. It may be slower and require more people to manage, but it's better than nothing. That's how it was done in the old days,with radio.
All modern quay cranes are fitted equivalent sensors. This sensors are utilised for the proficent and safe operation, taking into account weight, speed wind speed and direction just to mention some. If the Chinese or any government/corporation wanted any information they would proable hack into the software, data collection and storage.
Hacking is actually a lot more difficult than portrayed on tv. 99.9% of hacking is done by either getting someone (i.e. a spy) to physically download things straight off a computer that they are already authorized to access, or getting authorized personnel to click on Trojan horse links in their emails and installing viruses that allow the hacker to take control. Just breaking through a firewall from the outside is incredibly difficult with modern encryption. Not saying it’s not possible to do that with shipping facilities, but it might be more trouble than it’s worth.
Port facilities can be forcibly seized by the US government via eminent domain if necessary, or via civil forfeiture if it is deemed that the owners are using the ports to further a criminal enterprise. That’s no problem. The cranes are a problem because the manufacturer is the one who maintains them. We’d need to have US firms go ahead and start figuring out how to do that, just in case. But I do agree that no company owned by individuals or other entities from China, Russia, or any other US enemy should ever be allowed to have any ownership interest in any US infrastructure or strategic industry.
I'm old enough to remember when there were no electronics except for maybe the operator's radio. Everything was magnetic contactors and wound rotor induction motors
Sal, you are right. You ran this story over a year ago and it was answered with crickets by the US Government. I wonder if the Chinese can render those cranes inoperable remotely via the Internet.
Seems that since the US doesn't make this equipment that we don't have much of a choice but to use that built by others, including China. We just need to check our systems to ensure we can block any snooping or shutting the cranes down.
And where was this concern when these cranes were being purchased? Talking about closing the barn door long after the horses are gone. Another piece to what is going to be an interesting future.
@1:29 Still don't understand why these crane operators have to lean forward and look down, when all they have to do is put a video camera facing down, and have a viewer/TV straight ahead in the cab. I wonder how many of these operators end up with neck/back problems because of the constant leaning forward.
I was thinking the same thing! Or if they like the 'analog' aspect of being able to see the load directly - they could certainly come up with a better operators station. Start with your average Gaming Chair, put a tilt mechanism on that and tweak from there. But I agree 100%
How much time do you ( or some arbitrary example person ) spend hunched over your phones? Is the angle that off from how 1:30 Terry is sitting. That's about how im sitting as I write this. As a guess on video cameras they have probably had issues with depth perception, latency, lighting levels, maintenence.
This idea has been tried many times, and doesn't work out. At best, you end up with motion sickness. A recent example is that one of the major issues with the USAF KC-46 is the remote boom operator video viewing station. Another problematic idea is moving tank crews out of the turret to the hull.
@@Adept893I think the only issue would be choosing the right camera. A lot of cameras (and all phones) have at least a little bit of "wide angle" which round the edges and might affect depth perception. The cost to implement and maintain is small compared to long term physical/medical issues that might end up causing early retirement with pension and medical costs as long as they're alive. How we view our laptops/phones and what happens over the long term if we have bad posture, is on us. We can still sit up straight and use our electronics. These crane operators have to lean forward, hours on end. With a camera and a viewer, they would see exactly what they see when they lean forward, without leaning forward.
@@SteamCrane I would think at first, the operators may have issues with it. But just like anything else, once they get used to it, they would be ok with it. And even if they don't like it, they'll still have that option of the window below their feet. They would have the convenience of both
Safety-critical systems present little issue: you can't just telnet into a crane and disable them. Generally, they're independent computer and/or control systems. And damaging the cranes themselves or using them to "spy" on what's being moved where is both unnecessary and almost certainly more difficult than just hacking the systems that keep track of the containers. Those tell you a lot more than a crane will about what's in a container and where it's going, and if you manage scramble or shut down that system, nothing's going anywhere because nobody will have any idea of which containers are where, and where they should go.
Once the cane is on US soil, the US has the ability to test and monitor any communication to/from the crane. Same cyber security stance for these as for other technology platforms. If the owner/government is not managing that risk, it ain't the manufacturers fault.
This shows how little these people know about cybersecurity. If these cranes are strictly managed by the people running them, and the cranes are isolated in the operation area network, and no need to have them connect directly to the Internet. Even if the device had built-in call-back capabilities, the cybersecurity monitoring system should be able to detect unusual network activities and stop any kind of data from being sent out to the internet. It is poor management of the operational environment not able to stop any potential attacks.
I'm just going to pretend that you have an idea of whst you're talki g about. But I secretly hope that nobody has let you manage critical infrastructure.
I have been wondering about ship to shore cranes: since more cargo quantity per vessel is increasing, it seems moving more containers per lift on/off is an idea being worked on ...
Have they checked the containers, they can have a mind of their own. They are all individuals already with their own personal numbers. They will know what they are carrying and where they are going.
My man. We have one of these cranes on our pier. We can't even get parts for it let alone offshore/online support for it. If they can't be bothered to support their gear, why would they be using it for tracking? Btw, did you get permission from CBC and Brett Ruskin for the initial crane footage? Asking for a friend...
That would imply that every crane has detonation materials on board. Way too risky. Much easier to destroy the computer by remote. Certainly feasable. We can have an operator sit in an office in the US and fly a drone over Afghanistan and deploy weapons. Ducky!
Ummm, it's about US military equipment being shipped out. Actually important. Additionally, remote shutdown of all cranes if the Taiwan balloon goes up. Oops, that takes on a new meaning now!
Absolutely, there is a better chance soon to start cutting our dependency on Chinese products. This product should be made in America with American Steel.
I wonder how the F-22’s air to ground capabilities are? 😂 In all seriousness though, Thinking about how easily compromised everything is, is sobering! Practical Engineering has had some awesome videos too on how fragile our infrastructure is and between you and him I’m thoroughly concerned. I really hope the right people are paying enough attention to this stuff. As Always I appreciate what you do! I can give you a small part of my day and in return you give me anxiety! 😂
Hi, Great video. It's a big sleeping problem, not talked about much. There are critical parts of computers made in off shore locations. Is there some US agency that seriously analyzes these computers for little spy chips? There was a story in Bloomberg a few years back about a tiny chip found in high level router equipment that turned out to be CCP linked. Maybe it's impractical to control the end user equipment and that's the reason for the moving to storage on the cloud. Data used to be centralized in Corporate Datacenters on Mainframe Computers. Then the PC arrived and a year after every US tech advance, design and innovation we see a copy by the Chinese. Once data is re-centralized our agencies hopefully can help protect it instead of leaving Zero Day bugs that allow them (the agency) to get into computers. Thank you!
Something doesn't add up. Why the sudden concern? The CCP's ill intent has been known for generations. Technical characteristics of the cranes have been known since they were conceived. There have always been heightened security concerns about our ports, and this concern became hyper-heightened after 9-11. If this problem truly was a concern, the cranes wouldn't have been installed in the first place. There's something weird about this.
Who thinks of these potential problems in the first place? Amazing. What about changing the functioning or capabilities of these cranes to what they can handle WITHOUT having an uplink? So if the units are properly maintained (electronically) with anti-virus etc, then they would not be able to impact the port - or the entire system - or even be shut down. Just less-capable.
@@grooviefan Care to provide details that confirm that? Why would a Chinese manufacturer of multi-million dollar equipment platforms (that are not portable or transportable and end up all over the world), design and build them with US made programs and OS?
If nothing else the shipping needs to know what the container is placarded with. Bio, flammable, perishable, heated, frozen and temperature sensitive. etcetera.
I have been saying for more than 16 years that many Chinese electronic components, transistors, and Integrated Circuit chips can talk to each other until the electronics of all industries will collect personal data and other sensitive data find a modem and transmit the data to China. I refuse to by any electronics made in China including transistors, I.C. Chips, and consumer and industrial electronics (computers, printers, phones, etc.).
Seems a bit late worrying about these issues when they are already installed in ports and infrastructure perhaps buy from the home market if worried about spying, but anything with a electronic controller is open to being hacked wherever it was built or operating
What's up with Dole Fruit Terminal Port in Wilmington DE ? Its been so goofed up and slow getting loads and paperwork for 3 weeks now. Story is it was Hacked. Haulers are staying away in droves since all got badly bitten from gauranteed delays or non-loads issues. Even with less traffic, its still no joy going in there . Chiquita shares facility All is same normal with them. They invented "remote work" long ago as in "Not my job
Glad somebody else is paying attention to this stuff! And, other stuff like undersea cables that have had unidentified subs skulking around them. I've heard that China is building ice breakers, what to they need ice breakers for?
Our local Utility, (SCANA, now owned by Dominion,) had built a very luxurious hangar facility for all their jets and helicopters. One day they went to get a jet out to fly the CEO somewhere and the hangar doors were locked and couldn't be opened. They called the manufacturer of these computerized doors. They were told they had a 90 day old installation bill past due and until the money cleared the bank they would remain locked. That bill was paid very quickly.
It would of course, be possible to replace the computers in these cranes with US made boxes, programed in the US. It would be possible to get around these fears in many ways. I would note, however, that all our chips are made off shore... silicon valley does not play with silicon, they just design it any more. It sort of makes me laugh, the US gov (whatever departments all the way down to local law enforcement) has been using a security flaw in almost all cell phones to track it's own citizens forever, who are they to complain when others do the same? I wonder how long it will take for the US to realize they are no longer a world power... They have given it all away quite freely.
I think this should be a prime target for friend-shoring. Pick some country we have a current or are desirous of a deeper geopolitical friendship with and encourage them to grow this industry. The United States should be more focused on producing the actual ships, because of how that will support our Navy and lower its operational costs. That would leave other sectors like the big ship-to-shore crains for a different friends to supply. I heard it casually mentioned that ZPMC 'has an island they build theses things on and the have one guy that dies a year ( month? Maybe month I remember being hinda shocked maybe someone knows if its BS or not )
Chinese Law requires that all Chinese companies adhere to Chinese Law regardless of where they sell. This means Chinese software is *always* spyware because that is Chinese Law. This should never be allowed on American infrastructure.
@@jack99889988 No, you are dead wrong. American software is not required to spy on the user, and is not required to have backdoors directly to the government. America and the EU have pretty strict rules about software spying on the user. It is why Huawei is banned in the West, and TikTok is banned in sensitive locations.
US government is too honest, every time she accuses China of doing sth, we know that she has already done that before. I know law service is very expensive in US, but Americans should have commen sense that you must have evidences to support your prosecution in court.
This is a two fold issue. Network security has nothing to do with the Cranes/Devices. If the FBI/CIA/NSA etc have concerns then incentivize removing the Chinese devices with trusted ones. There are plenty of industrial automation outfits in the US that can re-do all the controls and devices on these cranes.
If you're curious about what the Chinese might be up to, why don't you ask that Brother printer that is a foot from your chair? Just kidding...or am I? Lol
U.S. railroads should get ZPMC to monitor our trains and tell us when and where the next derailment is likely to be. U.S. railroad companies don't seem to know or care. The U.S. averages one train derailment a week.
How can you tell an American from a Swiss? One is paranoid about everything. I love the host is talking about crane accessing wireless network while setting in front of a Brother all-in-one wireless printer that have access to all the documents printed / scanned not to mention access to the office network and the internet
Too bad our politicians do not care about issues like this. They will call it (free trade) and shove it under the rug and if it does come back, they will play stupid.
Federal politicians & their families should face more oversight of their finances, with greater restrictions on their investments...let them receive 20 year stocks/bonds that are tied to national prosperity, including mean/median wealth. If war occurs with a predictably problematic country, anyone who excessively sold out American interests, they & their family are prioritized for a draft to the front lines.
Any device you put on your network should be subject to an information security /cybersecurity review. Not to mention firewall rules can be set to block both incoming and outgoing data streams. If a vendor needs to access a piece of equipment or update software you schedule a time period and you have your technical staff oversee whatever is done. Not to mention you can just make certain specific ports available. You can either mitigate this risk or accept the risk. Your choice.
I will add, the wifi connected to these unit need have no internet connection. The port cranes in the sixties never had any wifi. Data collection need only be communicated with the port server to get container assignment and relay offload details.
Indeed, if you fail to air gap critical networks and systems, do not perform regular network traffic analysis, use plain internet connections rather than VPNs and the like, and fail to take similar basic security precautions you kind of deserve whatever happens next. There's a solid argument to be made for these cranes not having any way to get to the internet.
Even for the car infotainment systems that I worked on for a major car manufacturer we had security audits. It did take a few scandals for those to be put in place (like plain text info being sent to the central server...), but it helped immensely with weeding out potential issues. For us developers, the company's own servers were also only available after logging in via secure, on-premises VPN. Takes a lot of guesswork and paranoia out of security.
I agree.. I am an IT consultant and that is standard practice for any new medical equipment/devices are placed on the network. However.. maybe the concern is that the harbors who use them are not taking proper security proctocols and leaving them wide open? Here is an example.. I was working on a review for a building automation system controlling air handlers etc, we found that the vendor (a very large corp) did not have any security on these devices and were running a raspberry pi controller. It was the vendor's recommendation that we just install them.. no review needed. I would hope that the harbors or government would do their due diligence on new hardware.
So what do you do if one of your big pieces of kit has a micro controller from, say, Espressif that has the ability to set up its own ad-hoc non-wifi wireless network? Sure in theory those alone won't be able to get to the internet at large to communicate, but what happens if an unrelated Espressif micro controller is in range of the ones inside of your gear? What good is an air gap if you have a piece of industrial kit that can spin up its own network for communication? Are you monitoring all of the RF in the air of your air gap? Again, all in theory, but with the number of the things out there, kind of hard not to take that additional step.
Get Elon to manufacture new cranes.
I would like someone to name 10 pieces of electronics in their house that weren't made in or use parts that were made in China! Bet you can't do it!
I have radios bought back in 1973 along with many other units bought back in the 1930's.
TV Grundik dan ITT 🤣🤣
Name ten of anything ! We won't admit it but the World Party has US by the you-know-whats. THEY just waiting for the best time to spring the trap. It's not Asian courage I admire. It is their long-view patience.
So.......
Can you name 10 things invented by China in the last 100 years......??
200k subs approaching. Glad I’ve been able to see you grow Sal! Love the jab at Wall Street Journal on their 1 year late anniversary!
Thanks, Professor Sal! As we someday sit around our little survival fire pits, no electricity, no natural gas, no diesel, rationed feeble food supplies, only polluted rain water to drink ... 🤯 ... we will lift a cup to you who sounded the alarm. Thank you. 🥴
Get a taste for bugs now. Beat the rush.
High D D We here in AUS sit around in our nice warm environment with plenty grains, coal and nat gas for elec,
rare earth minerals, beef and lamb on the bbq, boating and fishing of everything etc.etc., while you Northerners are shivering. Cheers, I'll drink to your health, 28deg C (that's 83F to you foreigners) on my back deck as I gaze at the Lake and count the chineseum coal ships parked out the front awaiting loading !
@@linmal2242Watch out for those poisonous bugs, reptiles and even mammals down there! 😉✌️😂
love your channel..always good stuff, cheers from Central Florida, Paul
Glad you enjoy it!
The internet of things…..everything is subject to tampering ……motor cars, washing machines, container cranes…you name it it’s susceptible to a cyber attack….great video Sal.
Hi Sal, I find your series very informative. I do have a question regarding some of your statements in a previous video about the Jones act and LNG shipping to New England. You stated that the only pipeline that services NE. only supplys gas from the NY State Marcellus fields. But what about the upgrades to the Algonquin Gas Transmission Pipeline from 26 inches to 42 inches that brings gas from Pa. (upgraded service began in 2017)?
I was in Meba and we had the USA made cranes with GE drives. PASCO brand I think.
I took a crane maintenance course and we did a field trip to our cranes in Port Newark .
After that we visited the Longshoreman cranes that were brand new Chinese units.
This was over 25 years ago and they had Two Chinese service techs that were there for years as part of the deal!
Remove all the controls replace with Allen Bradley or Magnatec drives .
The steel, motors , can stay.
Meanwhile Air gap them!
Turn off the internet.
Yes, they have been waging economic 'warfare' against U S and the West for years so why has not the U S responded?
Retired MEBA here too. I didn't take that course but highly endorse your suggestion.
You don't think there isn't something that controls those motors with a protected memory section the content of which only the Chinese manufacturer knows? I mean if that's true then you are safe, but if not.... PS micro controllers these days have the ability to set up their own wireless network that do not use wifi, ie your air gap has been circumvented.
I said get rid of all the controllers!
It could be in the software that it won’t run without an internet connection.
Like every net engineer ever said. If you want it safe do not connect it to the internet. Why company's feel the need to online everything is beyond me. All major systems should be closed loop even if they need to online it for scheduled updates they could use another system that is online and transfer it to the closed system after its deemed safe. Same for performance data transfer it off then broadcast it. So simple but I know why they dont do this it would require a trained IT/systems engineer which would be over budget.
Yes, absolutely nutz to leave critical systems online for any body to hack or commandeer !
Exactly. That’s what happens when you have bean counters in charge and not people with maritime industry experience.
You're right, but you're asking a lot of lazy ass IT department heads who want to switch jobs every two or three months, and even more of the BAs whose ignorance they're trying to sate.
Pricing in the short term and long term has a lot of power over decisions. Its cheaper to have an automated system that broadcasts data from the cranes to a central system than to have someone actively baby the system.
Thankyou sal!!
Steve here
From port of Oakland
Keep doin what you’re doin
Much appreciation!!!
Excellent information that every citizen should be aware of. Our government and people must be focused on conducting business in a manner that prevents us from being held hostage by China. This is serious business!
NEVER TRUST THE CHINESE
The port near me got new cranes a couple of years back, and they got delivered on a ship all standing bolt upright - I'm amazed it didn't capsize from all the weight aloft. And they took the old ones away for scrap.
Here is an idea that will really get everyone up in arms, expand the Jones Act to include Container Cranes. 🤣
The US needs to see a shrink ASAP.
I'm glad to hear about this issue of the vulnerable container cranes. It seems to reaffirm that to keep some ships capable of self loading with over haul gear, and trained longshoremen in place for the future, just in case the containers can't be used. Not as 'efficient' but it might be necessary.
In the internet of things what machine can't spy on you? You worry about cranes and not Iphones? Good grief!
@@isokabooks3758 What makes you think we are not concerned with iPhones?
A gantry crane is a 24/7 365 feature of a port. An individual's iPhone or other mobile device is not.
@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 It is quite probable that as I write this an enormous computer is spying on me, you and and everyone else. Beware, Big Brother is hearing everything we say , everything we write and if your phone is in your pocket everywhere you go. If you have GPS in your car they hold you by the balls too. The end of personal freedom is just around the corner.
An other example of big business to looking for the interest of the nation, but just their own personal interest. America as a nation is dysfunctional.
I'm curious of what you know about the UN's Universal Postal Union and how it may be the source for why shipments out of China cost close to nothing, as a means to help 3rd world countries become more developed.
Thanks!
Thank you!
It is possible to implement layered security controls and zero trust best practices. But the question is, are proper security frameworks being used? Are the software bill of materials being tracked for patching, updating, and vulnerability analysis? Are quantum resistant encryption algorithms being used? Are security certificates and keys being rotated on a prudent schedule? And a benefit of open source is the possibility of auditing and testing but is anyone with cyber security expertise actually doing this ongoing analysis?
I always enjoy sharing with my significant other just how far ahead of the power curve on issues that eventually show up in the media you are, Sal. You explanation of the significance of such issues far exceeds anything ever reported in the main stream media. If I had a magic wand I think it would benefit our nation greatly if politicians in DC were required to hear a briefing from you on a regular basis to secure a better military presence at sea and to address all the other issues you present. I often reference your stories when reaching out to my senators in hopes they and their staffers are paying attention to your channel. Thanks again for all you do!
I totally agree. As a Canadian, I'm more removed from the impacts of shipping in the US. But as Sal has clearly articulated it is all part of the global system and conundrum - we are all connected. Great idea to get Prof Sal in front of the policy makers in DC! Anything that affects US security, domestically or internationally, ultimately impacts Canada.
The politicians, at least on the right, know it all. If you are wondering, just ask them. They will go on at great length about how great they are.
The company I worked for got rid of the Lincoln single side welder that worked fine with a new Miller welding unit I realized that it could be linked to a monitoring terminal any where in the world and THAT made me uncomfortable. Big brother wanting us to be robots, and the slap in the face was we were in Cleveland Oh. the hometown of Lincoln Electric. Goodbye Demag thanks to TEREX selling us to KONA.
If you’re an artisan welder, you could be measured to teach the artificial welders in real time. Gives them a great starting point to take over your job.
Very interesting show. I posted a link to your video in "The Dive | War Zone" comments section, so they can see it. All the best.
Saw this story in the news. Wanted to know specifically how are they spying? 4:29 these cranes have uplinks. 4:46 they are connected through the internet. Container data to the crane operator is transferred over the internet? Container Data should be transferred on an Intranet. None of this should equipment should be hooked to the internet. Who's idea was that? Where is the IT department? In China?
probably India..
A high-level executive wanted to be able to real-time monitor the port operations while on a 'Leadership seminar' in the Bahamas?
That's stupid. These modern cranes are made to be integrated into robotic modern ports. Go look at their operation in Chancay, zero people, fully automated.
So Wise , Thank You .
My family and myself worked longshore in LA harbor since the 1950's,,we remember when the Gantry cranes showed up with the containers,,I remember back in the day a new crane failed,,hit the deck of the ship,, they claimed the metal was bad,my Dad and brother ran cranes,, good job 👍
Another Great episode that was fun and informative. A little disappointed no TOM HANKS references 🤷🏻♂️ your slacking 🤣
Also the fully automated terminals here at LA/LB like LBCT and Maersk don’t have UTR moving cargo in the yards. The strads are fully autonomous. If they push the “red button” the whole dock goes down.
Its interesting you bring up the bridge construction, I know another state that is doing something similar. Even with projects that we're meant to have the added benefit of creating local jobs, even if it costed more. But they eventually outsourced it to a foreign company to save money. Who then made up an excuse that they were unable to find the talent they needed in the region and were then allow to modify the contract with an exception to allow them to bring in staff from outside the region and outside the US.
Common engineering principle would tell you that basic redundancy is the order of the day. By that I mean manual overides to keep a crane operating when communications are lost. It may be slower and require more people to manage, but it's better than nothing.
That's how it was done in the old days,with radio.
I remember that video from last year. Better late than never for the WSJ.
All modern quay cranes are fitted equivalent sensors. This sensors are utilised for the proficent and safe operation, taking into account weight, speed wind speed and direction just to mention some. If the Chinese or any government/corporation wanted any information they would proable hack into the software, data collection and storage.
Hacking is actually a lot more difficult than portrayed on tv. 99.9% of hacking is done by either getting someone (i.e. a spy) to physically download things straight off a computer that they are already authorized to access, or getting authorized personnel to click on Trojan horse links in their emails and installing viruses that allow the hacker to take control. Just breaking through a firewall from the outside is incredibly difficult with modern encryption. Not saying it’s not possible to do that with shipping facilities, but it might be more trouble than it’s worth.
It was an astronomical blunder to off shore our manufacturing.
Ross Perot was right!
@@mikedx2706 He sure was.
Sounds like automation, outsourcing, and monopolies may have negative consequences. Who knew?
I'm a fan of low bidder - what could go wrong - he he
Automation is an inevitable/necessary component of economic evolution, but it's ownership, oversight, and implementation matters.
I am FAR more worried about foriegn ownership of the ports themselves rather than just the cranes
Port facilities can be forcibly seized by the US government via eminent domain if necessary, or via civil forfeiture if it is deemed that the owners are using the ports to further a criminal enterprise. That’s no problem. The cranes are a problem because the manufacturer is the one who maintains them. We’d need to have US firms go ahead and start figuring out how to do that, just in case. But I do agree that no company owned by individuals or other entities from China, Russia, or any other US enemy should ever be allowed to have any ownership interest in any US infrastructure or strategic industry.
@@bluemarlin8138the entire world is becoming your enemy
I'm old enough to remember when there were no electronics except for maybe the operator's radio. Everything was magnetic contactors and wound rotor induction motors
I believe a Bloomberg Terminal has information on what a ship carries in terms of gas and petrol, not sure about other cargo.
I'd properly respond to this but right now my toaster is looking at me funny. I gotta go hide now.
Sal, you are right. You ran this story over a year ago and it was answered with crickets by the US Government. I wonder if the Chinese can render those cranes inoperable remotely via the Internet.
As Sal said, not just China. Think Russian criminals. Iranian actors, North Korean, you name it. The Chinese are a small but persistent problem.
if the Chinese can, so can many others
Very probable.
No they can’t. The software for the cranes is developed here in America
@@grooviefan won't stop the crackers.
Seems that since the US doesn't make this equipment that we don't have much of a choice but to use that built by others, including China. We just need to check our systems to ensure we can block any snooping or shutting the cranes down.
And where was this concern when these cranes were being purchased? Talking about closing the barn door long after the horses are gone. Another piece to what is going to be an interesting future.
The software for the crane is developed in here in the states.
@1:29 Still don't understand why these crane operators have to lean forward and look down, when all they have to do is put a video camera facing down, and have a viewer/TV straight ahead in the cab. I wonder how many of these operators end up with neck/back problems because of the constant leaning forward.
I was thinking the same thing! Or if they like the 'analog' aspect of being able to see the load directly - they could certainly come up with a better operators station. Start with your average Gaming Chair, put a tilt mechanism on that and tweak from there. But I agree 100%
How much time do you ( or some arbitrary example person ) spend hunched over your phones? Is the angle that off from how 1:30 Terry is sitting. That's about how im sitting as I write this.
As a guess on video cameras they have probably had issues with depth perception, latency, lighting levels, maintenence.
This idea has been tried many times, and doesn't work out. At best, you end up with motion sickness. A recent example is that one of the major issues with the USAF KC-46 is the remote boom operator video viewing station. Another problematic idea is moving tank crews out of the turret to the hull.
@@Adept893I think the only issue would be choosing the right camera. A lot of cameras (and all phones) have at least a little bit of "wide angle" which round the edges and might affect depth perception. The cost to implement and maintain is small compared to long term physical/medical issues that might end up causing early retirement with pension and medical costs as long as they're alive. How we view our laptops/phones and what happens over the long term if we have bad posture, is on us. We can still sit up straight and use our electronics. These crane operators have to lean forward, hours on end. With a camera and a viewer, they would see exactly what they see when they lean forward, without leaning forward.
@@SteamCrane I would think at first, the operators may have issues with it. But just like anything else, once they get used to it, they would be ok with it. And even if they don't like it, they'll still have that option of the window below their feet. They would have the convenience of both
Safety-critical systems present little issue: you can't just telnet into a crane and disable them. Generally, they're independent computer and/or control systems.
And damaging the cranes themselves or using them to "spy" on what's being moved where is both unnecessary and almost certainly more difficult than just hacking the systems that keep track of the containers. Those tell you a lot more than a crane will about what's in a container and where it's going, and if you manage scramble or shut down that system, nothing's going anywhere because nobody will have any idea of which containers are where, and where they should go.
The pressure on these crane operators would be unbelievable, What a demanding job.
better than air traffic controller..
PAYS WELL TOO
Once the cane is on US soil, the US has the ability to test and monitor any communication to/from the crane. Same cyber security stance for these as for other technology platforms. If the owner/government is not managing that risk, it ain't the manufacturers fault.
it's because it's a propaganda. don't really need proofs to accuse anyone. not the first time the US has done that.
This shows how little these people know about cybersecurity. If these cranes are strictly managed by the people running them, and the cranes are isolated in the operation area network, and no need to have them connect directly to the Internet. Even if the device had built-in call-back capabilities, the cybersecurity monitoring system should be able to detect unusual network activities and stop any kind of data from being sent out to the internet. It is poor management of the operational environment not able to stop any potential attacks.
I'm just going to pretend that you have an idea of whst you're talki g about. But I secretly hope that nobody has let you manage critical infrastructure.
I have been wondering about ship to shore cranes: since more cargo quantity per vessel is increasing, it seems moving more containers per lift on/off is an idea being worked on ...
Safety is why they don’t.
Have they checked the containers, they can have a mind of their own. They are all individuals already with their own personal numbers. They will know what they are carrying and where they are going.
They used to be called "portainers" (porter (to carry), 'ainers (containers)).
My man. We have one of these cranes on our pier. We can't even get parts for it let alone offshore/online support for it. If they can't be bothered to support their gear, why would they be using it for tracking?
Btw, did you get permission from CBC and Brett Ruskin for the initial crane footage? Asking for a friend...
Thanks Sal
When Sino-American war happens China will press the big red button that said "US port cranes self-destruct" then all of them will explodes 😱
That would imply that every crane has detonation materials on board. Way too risky. Much easier to destroy the computer by remote. Certainly feasable. We can have an operator sit in an office in the US and fly a drone over Afghanistan and deploy weapons. Ducky!
Funny enough they had to replace much of what ZPMC did because the metal failed to meet the quality it needed to.
oh no! the Chinese will know about all the containers they're sending us
Ummm, it's about US military equipment being shipped out. Actually important. Additionally, remote shutdown of all cranes if the Taiwan balloon goes up. Oops, that takes on a new meaning now!
What do you think they learn by holding “farm land” around our military bases? Agricultural secrets? I doubt it.
Absolutely, there is a better chance soon to start cutting our dependency on Chinese products. This product should be made in America with American Steel.
Any item I turn over that I picked up on the shelf says Made in China I put back and look for another item.
Where do you buy your light bulbs?
Jack Rhysider has an awesome video on Maersk getting hit by the virus.
Excellent example of what you say might happen here.
I wonder how the F-22’s air to ground capabilities are? 😂
In all seriousness though, Thinking about how easily compromised everything is, is sobering! Practical Engineering has had some awesome videos too on how fragile our infrastructure is and between you and him I’m thoroughly concerned. I really hope the right people are paying enough attention to this stuff.
As Always I appreciate what you do! I can give you a small part of my day and in return you give me anxiety! 😂
Thanks for mentioning Practical Engineering. It looks really interesting.
@@kevintaylor4913 I love his channel! I’m about as far from an engineer as you can get but he’s explains things so well no matter who you are!
Hi, Great video. It's a big sleeping problem, not talked about much. There are critical parts of computers made in off shore locations. Is there some US agency that seriously analyzes these computers for little spy chips? There was a story in Bloomberg a few years back about a tiny chip found in high level router equipment that turned out to be CCP linked. Maybe it's impractical to control the end user equipment and that's the reason for the moving to storage on the cloud. Data used to be centralized in Corporate Datacenters on Mainframe Computers. Then the PC arrived and a year after every US tech advance, design and innovation we see a copy by the Chinese. Once data is re-centralized our agencies hopefully can help protect it instead of leaving Zero Day bugs that allow them (the agency) to get into computers. Thank you!
As always,
Great shares
The Jawas sand crawlers from episode 4 are in my opinion modeled after
Large auto ships /ro/ro
Always love the Star Wars references!!!
There are a bunch of these in oakland i remember when they came under the golden gate bridge
The government will make noise about this issue but won’t put a dime towards doing a thing about it.
Great video! Like the tree (plant). Support Jones Act.
Something doesn't add up. Why the sudden concern? The CCP's ill intent has been known for generations. Technical characteristics of the cranes have been known since they were conceived. There have always been heightened security concerns about our ports, and this concern became hyper-heightened after 9-11. If this problem truly was a concern, the cranes wouldn't have been installed in the first place. There's something weird about this.
Who thinks of these potential problems in the first place? Amazing. What about changing the functioning or capabilities of these cranes to what they can handle WITHOUT having an uplink? So if the units are properly maintained (electronically) with anti-virus etc, then they would not be able to impact the port - or the entire system - or even be shut down. Just less-capable.
BC-Guy. Sal has join the conspiracy mob. Crane software is developed here in america
@@grooviefan Care to provide details that confirm that? Why would a Chinese manufacturer of multi-million dollar equipment platforms (that are not portable or transportable and end up all over the world), design and build them with US made programs and OS?
@@bc-guy852 probably the same reason the crane was designed by Americans but built in China.
@@bc-guy852 the software is for the American ports.
Reminds me of some states finding it cheaper to order bridges from China than having local labor build them.
If nothing else the shipping needs to know what the container is placarded with. Bio, flammable, perishable, heated, frozen and temperature sensitive. etcetera.
I have been saying for more than 16 years that many Chinese electronic components, transistors, and Integrated Circuit chips can talk to each other until the electronics of all industries will collect personal data and other sensitive data find a modem and transmit the data to China. I refuse to by any electronics made in China including transistors, I.C. Chips, and consumer and industrial electronics (computers, printers, phones, etc.).
LMFAO, so how did you post this comment then? Shouldn't you be using the carrier pigeon then?
As an American, I feel ashamed with this kind low taste accusation.
Seems a bit late worrying about these issues when they are already installed in ports and infrastructure perhaps buy from the home market if worried about spying, but anything with a electronic controller is open to being hacked wherever it was built or operating
So why is China still considered a "Developing Country"? And still get the benefits.
What's up with Dole Fruit Terminal Port in Wilmington DE ? Its been so goofed up and slow getting loads and paperwork for 3 weeks now. Story is it was Hacked. Haulers are staying away in droves since all got badly bitten from gauranteed delays or non-loads issues. Even with less traffic, its still no joy going in there . Chiquita shares facility All is same normal with them. They invented "remote work" long ago as in "Not my job
I watched the first story and it was well presented.
Glad somebody else is paying attention to this stuff! And, other stuff like undersea cables that have had unidentified subs skulking around them. I've heard that China is building ice breakers, what to they need ice breakers for?
Well …..if we are undone by all these Trojan Horses … It will at least be an Homage to the Classic …
Chinese ballons, now it’s cranes…?total maddness the US wants a war
Worked on the last one constructed invancouver ever since they've come in on barges complete for all intents and purposes that had to be early 80s
Our local Utility, (SCANA, now owned by Dominion,) had built a very luxurious hangar facility for all their jets and helicopters. One day they went to get a jet out to fly the CEO somewhere and the hangar doors were locked and couldn't be opened. They called the manufacturer of these computerized doors. They were told they had a 90 day old installation bill past due and until the money cleared the bank they would remain locked. That bill was paid very quickly.
It would of course, be possible to replace the computers in these cranes with US made boxes, programed in the US. It would be possible to get around these fears in many ways. I would note, however, that all our chips are made off shore... silicon valley does not play with silicon, they just design it any more. It sort of makes me laugh, the US gov (whatever departments all the way down to local law enforcement) has been using a security flaw in almost all cell phones to track it's own citizens forever, who are they to complain when others do the same? I wonder how long it will take for the US to realize they are no longer a world power... They have given it all away quite freely.
One of Biden's first priorities was to build a chip building facility in the U.S. A HUGE undertaking, but he thought it was vital.
The software in the cranes is developed here in the states. End of story
Hahahaha this crap is gold, what about the Chinese made printer behind you? Scanning your paper’s secretly and sending remotely via Balloons lmao 🤣
So how do we get the cranes under the Jones'act 😉
I am all for that
I think this should be a prime target for friend-shoring. Pick some country we have a current or are desirous of a deeper geopolitical friendship with and encourage them to grow this industry.
The United States should be more focused on producing the actual ships, because of how that will support our Navy and lower its operational costs.
That would leave other sectors like the big ship-to-shore crains for a different friends to supply.
I heard it casually mentioned that ZPMC 'has an island they build theses things on and the have one guy that dies a year ( month? Maybe month I remember being hinda shocked maybe someone knows if its BS or not )
Chinese Law requires that all Chinese companies adhere to Chinese Law regardless of where they sell.
This means Chinese software is *always* spyware because that is Chinese Law.
This should never be allowed on American infrastructure.
@@jack99889988 No, you are dead wrong. American software is not required to spy on the user, and is not required to have backdoors directly to the government.
America and the EU have pretty strict rules about software spying on the user. It is why Huawei is banned in the West, and TikTok is banned in sensitive locations.
中国并没有这个要求，少看点假新闻
@@唐伯虎-g9d 你是中国机器人
all the cranes on our terminal Cosco Zeebrugge/Belgium are also ZPMC cranes, should we also be worried
US government is too honest, every time she accuses China of doing sth, we know that she has already done that before.
I know law service is very expensive in US, but Americans should have commen sense that you must have evidences to support your prosecution in court.
Why can’t they just disconnect these things from the internet and take out the chips doing this and replace them?
11:29 - Maybe we should write to Amy or Abby: "What should we do about those rude, nosy ZPMC cranes?"
This is a two fold issue. Network security has nothing to do with the Cranes/Devices. If the FBI/CIA/NSA etc have concerns then incentivize removing the Chinese devices with trusted ones. There are plenty of industrial automation outfits in the US that can re-do all the controls and devices on these cranes.
I’m worried about ANYTHING Chinese in America!😡
If you're curious about what the Chinese might be up to, why don't you ask that Brother printer that is a foot from your chair? Just kidding...or am I? Lol
U.S. railroads should get ZPMC to monitor our trains and tell us when and where the next derailment is likely to be. U.S. railroad companies don't seem to know or care. The U.S. averages one train derailment a week.
How can you tell an American from a Swiss? One is paranoid about everything.
I love the host is talking about crane accessing wireless network while setting in front of a Brother all-in-one wireless printer that have access to all the documents printed / scanned not to mention access to the office network and the internet
The host is not too worried on the Chinese spying on What's Going on With Shipping. He hopes they subscribe and like!
Too bad our politicians do not care about issues like this. They will call it (free trade) and shove it under the rug and if it does come back, they will play stupid.
Federal politicians & their families should face more oversight of their finances, with greater restrictions on their investments...let them receive 20 year stocks/bonds that are tied to national prosperity, including mean/median wealth. If war occurs with a predictably problematic country, anyone who excessively sold out American interests, they & their family are prioritized for a draft to the front lines.
agree that it's unsafe. eg cheap surveillance cameras, where you have to have an account for them to work.
This is not a YES or NOT question, it's a WHEN it was going to start happening.
Nothing surprises me anymore.
It’s already happened but it was a phishing ransom ware attack on Maersk’s company email global network a few years ago. Not spies in Beijing.
Perhaps if the U.S. would move towards being a less malevolent force towards other countries we wouldn't have to worry about cargo cranes.
What country produced the chips that Chinese cranes use?
That is a lot to expect from a country that lets MS Windows stop their computers to update Windows 11.
Good morning Sal
Our cranes are made in China. What a freaking surprise 😮
My underpants are made in China and they are squeezing my balls. Grrrrr!
We supply your military with components that go into, Jets, tanks, ships, submarines, helicopters, you name it! 🇨🇳
Lucky we have cyber security Department for that at the federal level unless they are corrupted like the Supreme court justices.