This makes your GH5 & 5s Cinematic
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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This video will teach you the theoretical basis for correcting your gh5 & gh5s footage. Colour correction is important because it's the base for colour grading, and without it, you can't get the quality of films.
I have created a Colour correction KIT for the GH5 & 5s cameras and a free mini-course on colour correction and grading. You can join the course and download the free LUTs here:
Subs to the channel:
/ @jooworks
Contact me for whatever reason:
joonas@jooworks.fi
This is ludicrously backwards. Shooting in Cine-D and converting to V-log in post will not improve your footage, it is one of the most misguided things you can do with a GH5. V-log L is engineered purely to maximize the dynamic range of IMAGE CAPTURE, it is not intended as a post-production grading format.
This video's earlier advice is correct: With GH5 V-log L footage, you should use a calibrated LUT to convert it into Rec 709 format before attempting to grade it with other tools. But when you shoot in Cine-D, the footage is already in Rec 709 format, straight out of the camera, and it is TOTALLY POINTLESS to convert it into V-log format. If you do so, you will gain ZERO improvement in dynamic range and will only wind up converting it back to Rec 709 format at some later point in the grading process.
Yes, you will not recover any data you didn't capture, just like I said in the video. cine-d is not calibrated image profile. It's colour accuracy is really bad. When you turn it to v-log and then to rec709 with an accurate LUTs you will not gain any more data, but you gain calibrated (or at least more calibrated) colours and a format that is easier for grading. When it comes to DR cine-d doesn't have that much of a difference to v-log. Tested it my self and there is starting to pop up videos on youtube talking about the same thing.
Like this: ruclips.net/video/86Dx5qIljZY/видео.html But I'm not here to talk about the DR difference or not. I will not take any stand on the issue.
Yes, LUTs are good start, but one needs to be mindful of which LUT to use. There is big differences between different LUTs. The first video inside the course compares few different LUTs for V-log.
If your actual concern is to improve Cine-D color accuracy, V-log conversion is a time-consuming sidestep. There's a much more efficient and accurate way to calibrate Cine-D footage: Shoot a standard 4X6 color chart (such as X-rite), download Adobe's free DNG Profile Editor, and make your own calibrated LUT. This will produce superior results because it is calibrated specifically to your camera's tone curve, shooting at the color temperature of those particular lighting conditions. Do this with every scene and it will give you consistent color balance across all footage, regardless of lighting variations.
Or shoot with a 32x16 colour chart and the x-rite with 6 different exposures and offset WB to four different directions, create the LUT with 3D lut creator, which is the best tool on the market for this kind of work, minimise any human interaction to the process and calibrate the LUTs twice during the creation process and voila you will get even better result. :-D
That's the process I used for the LUTs inside the KIT.
That would work as well, but if you're going to that much trouble and expense, you can cut to the chase and produce conversion LUT's calibrated specifically to color correct GH5 Cine-D shot at specific color temperatures. That way you can work directly on Cine-D footage with no need to waste time round-tripping into V-log along the way. V-log offers no post production advantages over Rec 709 - it is NOT independent of white balance, is not standarized to anything more than Panasonic's proprietary specifications, and your monitor is calibrated to display Rec 709, not V-log. White balance is by far the most problematic issue with color correction of all non-RAW capture formats, with V-log footage just as much as Cine-D. Properly normalizing WB is the crucial step, regardless of your preferred camera profile.
YES the shade thrown at 2:18 is hilarious. I literally gasped lmao, recognized that voice and video immediately.
Ok, so I’m not an expert or anything, but v-log is a logarithmic profile while other profiles are linear. This means that v-log will be much more capable to keep details in too bright/too dark areas. It is a way to increase the dynamic range. Switching a normal profile to a log profile will only deteriorate the quality further. You will never get quality back that didn’t exist in the first place.
Correct, except turning std to vlog and then back to rec709 doesn't deteriorate the quality as long as you software's working bit depth is 16 or more. (the footage's bit depth doesn't matter) Premiere Pro, fcpx and resolve work in 16 or more bits.
But you are correct, the luts will not give you more data, it will just remap everything to vlog. Kind of redistribute the data to a new coordinates. Not magic, but makse it easier to work with.
You sir are a lifesaver. Tired of the other youtube channels demonstrating the same wrong way to colour grade.
This page and this guy is so underrated... YOU DESERVE MORE MATE! Keep it up!
Apart from pushing skin tones too far to red, the lut seems to work nicely.
I read a lot of the discussion above, and did I miss something or are you are the first person to mention this? Everyone is extremely rosy cheeked in these corrected pictures. Whereas the examples that are referred to are actually flatter, more natural and therefore more pleasing on the eye in my humble.
Bro you're style of editing and that reddish colours are the best I've seen....pls make videos with this look...
My footage FINALLY FINALLY looks cinematic on my GH5S... you are the MAN!!!! I would have NEVER EVER figured this out on my own. ..thank you thank you!!!!
I think people are just being hostile in the comments because they feel like they're being sold to.
Just wanted to let you know that I totally love what you're doing here and I find your tutorials super helpful. There are way too many channels out there that upload "color grading tutorials" that are really just videos of them teaching you how to ruin all your footage 😂
Keep up the valuable content man, I've definitely learned a lot from your channel!
Man, you changed my life! Thanks for kit and mini course!
The part about "we know who" commenting on V-Log was brilliant and had me giggle 😁 I believe some people on RUclips get too much recognition for the work they actually put, and sometimes they simply give wrong info to people, but that's another story... Anyways, great, informative video, I always appreciate your effort in giving these tips and ideas! Cheers!
Yes, I love the channel too. He is super good at what he does, but misinformation is misinformed. I must spread it sometimes as well. :-D
about whom are you talking? max?
I laughed audibly at that part because “you know who” canon fanboy, who I don’t generally have an issue with normally, had his gh5 vlog video TORN apart viciously lol
thank you Joo, i just bought the GH5, and your the reason i got one....im in south africa....your LUTs will make me a better filmmaker around thank you
Thanks for sharing man. For the mortal color correctors like me, this is more than enough to do better things. I already bought the KIT and everything works fine, congrats.
Thank you for your excellent advice ! As always, the quality of your videos really makes a difference
Your videos are incredibly helpful and clear and informative - but it was the Michael Scott clip that ultimately got you my subscribe :)
I’m not sure if your method is the appropriate way to shoot footage in the gh5 as I haven’t dived into it enough or tested it...but I will say I am impressed with the way you respond to your criticism and push for open dialogue. 🙌🏻
Great video, and right after I watched it I purchased the KIT! Thank you so much for sharing! Great techniques.
Your GH5 kit is the only thing I use to grade my GH5 and it is amazing what you've done! People have no clue! You definitely deserve more subscribers and I even used it on a Sony FS7 S-log2 and it was way better than what I had been used to...I converted the slog footage to rec709 in Davinci Resolve and then used your GH5 kit to convert to v-log and then used the rec709 film ..wow..also for those who doubt your method of converting cined or standard to v-log and then to rec709 using your kit...they should watch or check out Juan Melara (a professional colorist) and his method is just like yours and I consider both of you the best when it comes to color grading. You guys are the closest thing to an Arri footage on a cheap camera...Please, keep doing what you're doing and I'm sure people will notice very soon..please do something for Sony Users ..thanks
I have signed up for the free sample lut to try out and still haven't received the download link so I can't comment on the product (or sample of it). However, I have to say, people need to understand no 1 lut is going to cure all and make everyone's image look magical and cinematic like on an amazing youtube video or a movie. Depending on your exposure, iso, white balance setting, 1 lut can look totally different on 2 separate shots. Heck even when the sun get's covered by cloud your shot will look completely different after you apply a lut. I think people need to learn the workflow to adjust shots prior to applying luts rather than rely on lut packs to make their images look like it came from Hollywood.
Hi, so you signed in to the course as email? I seem to have some issue with my email provider. Need to check into that. Send me an email and let me help you get the links.
And I'm agree 100% that no one lut will fix your shot. Often when you apply the LUTs from the pack, your footage looks bad, but then you adjuste exposure and wb befor the lut and you get something totally different and good looking. The best results come from using the V-log and the LUTs meant for WB fixing inside the KIT, but it's but unpractical to be using them all the time. So Premiere's sliders shall do. :-)
Does this work for any other type of camera? I am shooting with canon 6dII and 5dIV. Also, does it work with FCPX?
The kit is done only for gh5, but if I would remake the LUT for some other camera the same process could be done for other cameras as well. But I would not use Vlog as my base. :-D Maybe c-log for canon. Canan has good colours allready, so the benefit would not be so noticeable. On sony, this would be a lifesaver. So I'll do this for sony next. :-D Canon. Hmm I don't know if canon even needs this.
ok thank you!
love love love it! thanx for creating superior content and sharing your skills,
I'm really glad you used Matti's voice and "tips" to show what should be avoided. He should stick to sponsoring Canon instead of teaching things he's not good at :P
Your skin tones look a bit lobster-like to my eyes. And shooting in Rec709 then "converting to log" then converting back to Rec709 seems very silly.
:-D Yes, I like saturation and redness. inside the course in the next video, I'll show how to go beyond "my style" and how to work with saturation for example. :-) Try my best to upload it today.
this video is beyond silly - its bad,-
damn - you are resilient ! Ill give you a thumb up for tenassity ! ;) (y)
Because it IS silly. And ineffective.
@Joo.Works Titanium is right, double converting is not good thing.
And you know that when you say :
"...for example the CINE-D has less dynamic range than the real Vlog...but there is the trick to get most of it back..."
Hmmmm. The "most of it" is enough ? Because we wanna save $100 for the Vlog upgrade ? Hmmm. You are a little bit one-sided, biased towards yourself. Because you dont think of disadvantages you don't really care, because the idea is "great". Nah its not so great at all. You convert jpeg to RAW then you edit it then you convert RAW to jpeg again. And you think this double conversion (compressions) is lossless or almost.
I pay $100 instead, (for Vlog upgrade) its nothing compared to equipments and accesories. Then I shoot in RAW not in jpeg. Of course in video world its not RAW and jpeg, but at least everyone can get the methaphor.
"I like saturation and redness..." - ok but you don't seem like a great photo/video artist sorry to say. It's my opinion, no offence. You should buy GoPro6 , you could get tons of saturation.
Just don't mix the art and the technical details please, they are totally different categories. That's your mistake.
Maybe other people don't like the lobster skin, oversaturated and underexposed picture, maybe they do, who knows. Some people above who say "I much prefer 4:44 to 4:48" , they are maybe right maybe not. But I think 4:48 is definitely not better than 4:44 , not at all. They have just differerent problems.
Just stick to the technicals in my opinion. And saving $100 is not a great deal to a professional for "almost as good" and for "most of it" :)
best salesmen ever
awesome video man! was that a TF sound bite about the youtube color correction? lol love the vid and the tips. liked and subscribed!
matt dutiel yes it was TF. I relly like his channel.
me too! I thought I recognized that voice! great info, keep up the great work!
Joo brother your visuals are effing stunning..........started checking your work out (as you genuine and its good)....im still struggling between buying a gh5s and the blackmagic 4k.....i know all the differences.....have you any thoughts on this? ......i love the rich colours of panasonic.....still think (even thought the dynamic range is different between the two cameras)......have you bought any anamorphic lenses yet to work wiht the gh5s.......i know the sirui......are awesome....let me know your thoughts......ide be grateful bro.....keep up the magic.....these shots are stunning mate.....rich and poetic ......
used your channel mixer settings with a S curve and it's the best LOG to REC709 conversion I have used by far 🙏🏼 thank you so much
I prefer it like this: (not a secret)
Shoot V-LOG-L video clip of color chart in nice light.
Take clip to resolve, go to color charts : Source V-LOG
REC 709
REC 709
Use chart.
Create cube file.
Now you go to premiere pro to apply lut using lumetri, (not the first tab but the second (creative?))
Then go to first one (basic editing?) and do adjustments if wanted. Also in second tab can use sharpening ofc.
Love the way it turns out!
I'll give it a try. Thanks man!
Dood this was dope! Thank you so much. Definitely helped me out big time. I paid for the luts and did your course. Excellent. :)
Paul Scott thaks for telling! :-)
You are my favorite RUclipsr joo humble person as well. I look forward to the more content you have in store.
Thanks! It's better to be humble. Less trouble... :-D
fool
This is awesome!! Great work, thank you for sharing the info!!!
Thank you Joonas, been learning a lot through your very descriptive and detailed videos.
Blessings,
Mike
Good to hear this Mike! :-)
fool
Mikkel Grum Bovin :-D short and sweet.
This is maybe the best video so far from a gh5 user. Thx a lot
You completely got me with the Michael Scott's toby reaction... LOL
Really impressive! Thank you Joonas! You have such a inspiring way to think out side the box. Kiitos, Magnus
fool
Mikkel Grum Bovin You mis spelled cool
I fucking died when you included Matti bashing the GH5.
Connor Lipke it's my weird way to show respect to the work he does. :-)
This has been my saving grace for my gh5, really excited to try this out!
Great work brotha! Much appreciated
You’re right. This is what I was looking for.
hahahaha 2:14 calling out Travel Feels video. Great stuff. I disagreed with that guy as well. GH5 is such a great camera.
Panasonic has a free vlog to 709 LUT. Try that first before buying this.
is it a plugin?
I tested it and it's super bad. The first video on the free course compares different lut's. The official is among the worst.
Straight called out Matti from Travel Feels 😂
Did attend film school? which camera are you using today for filming?
Do you have any “tutorials” where you teach something other than “buy my LUT pack”?
:-D Have been thinking about it. And lately I have not uploaded anything else. But does "Buy my sony KIT-tutorial" count as a "something else"? Those are up soon.
2:22 this could actually be me. Its just so stupid to see all these people on RUclips who have no idea how to use their equipment but still talk about how great their 4k camera shoots in log. But in fact they don‘t even know what that means
luckydrum96 it's not their fault, It took me a long time to understand this as well. :-) we are all just eagar to share what we have learned no matter if it's miss infomation or not. :-D I must do the samething sometimes.
I'd disregard everyone's comments telling you that you're wrong. Anyone that has experience with nodes will know you're right.
man apreciate your work, amazing. keep makin.
This will be fun to try out for some video nerding out. But for my comedy vlog I need to do as little in post as I can and I’m super happy shooting with Natural and white balancing against a Kodak 57, 18% grey card. So my question will a pre-white balance reduce my dynamic range?
Hello, Mr.Chato! Your fan here! No, pre-white balancing does not influence on DR at all
Hey, Serj, we must stop meeting across other people's channels like this. People will talk. Thanks for the info.
Hello you people! Thanks for helping Serj.
Huge WB shifts may increase the noise in blue channel. And probably reduce DR of blue channel. It's depends of internal camera processing.
It actually increases the dynamic range, since you don't have to mess with it in post, since no matter what, this is not RAW. :D
Necessity is the mother of invention - I will try this
nice tips ... like. BTW , do u recommend GH5S?
Primitive Age I tested it and I liked it a lot, but would still take gh5 because of the Ibis.
Joo.Works thank You 🙏🙏🙏🌟 i trust You and this helps me to choose wisely. Great tips . Kiitos
I Have RED Scarlet but i really hate it! So, I got myself the GH5 and thx for your tips bro.. ill subc u. Some good tips for Lowlight situation with GH5
?
I made a video about "how to shoot in the dark with gh5" go and search for it you'll find it. :-)
Thx, ill do so
Really clean!
thanks alot for sharing bro!
Really really strong tutorial there. I'm not a GH5 user, but this gives me some ideas on how to better correct footage from other cameras. Channel mixer is inspired! Tell me something on sound too. I'm struggling a little with my lapel set up that I have. What lavalier are you using? (lapel microphone)
Hmm... when it comes to sound. I'm no expert. But here is my tips: 1. Mic close to the mouth. 2. Leave headroom to the levels, peaks around -6 db 3. In Audition run a match volume process with -16 4. Then apply a parametric EQ and play around with lows and highs. That's how I do it.
Thanks for that... I'll try those. Question was a little about the hardware too... there's not doubt some systems have a better high and low response... and there's a good response in the mic you use.. I'm intrigued by which one it is? (Now you're going to tell me it was really cheap) :-) Great tutorials. I've subbed.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
A series is running in NETFLIX, "Deichbullen", which was shot with GH5. I don't think the recordings look cinematic at all. What do you think about?? how can it be that your recordings look better?
I much prefer 4:44 to 4:48
Interesting! :-)
respect to ya, but I really prefer the 4:48
No problem! :-) it's good to hear that.
Vince Lujan No worries, that's what makes life interesting.
Second one looked too contrast to me as well
Great tips.. had no idea about the channel mixer and will play around with that. I will say that i use VLOG-L exclusively now (don't bother with CINE-D unless you only want to do minor tweaks and need footage out faster). I do most of my color correcting then grading by Eye normally with scopes. The Skintone line is always the most difficult to adjust for and get correct. He is absolutely correct in converting the color space first this is logical because you edit for your output format. VLOG-L allows you to push the colors further then would be possible in a standard on Camera LUT due to its dynamic range. Thats the whole point of VLOG.. It would be interesting to see if Joo has a workflow for HDR color spaces yet however? ie a different LUT for those as that is becoming the next big thing.. I will say that I have been using Panasonic's Varicam 35mm to Rec709 Log (downloadable from Panasonic - sorry don't have the link currently) which is also usable on the GH5.. and with some minor tweaking afterwards also gives really good results for REC709 output.
Just watched this video and learned so much! I don't have the GH5 yet, only the GH4 and love it. Would these LUTs work on the GH4 by any chance? Thanks for your insights and for being willing to share them with us.
I feel sorry for Joo Works for having so many hostile comments.
what i see was :
1. Joo not only gave advices, but show actual examples
2. most of the hostile comments are pure theory
Theories may be correct but I feel more convincing on actual examples.
I have watched tons of color correcting videos on youtube, and almost no one pull a better looking color of a GH5 than this man.
to quote from a legend : "if it looks stupid but it works, IT BLOODY WORKS"
Thanks for this comment. I wanna say as well, that there is alot I have learned after this video and will continue forward. But it's true most arguments against me can't share examples.
Thanks for your work. Learned a lot for my videos!
Great stuff man, I'm going to get your LUTs and try them out!
You mentioned V-Log is not necessary. I feel like either me or you are confused about what V-log is for. Turning a normal profile captured footage into V-Log misses the point of using V-Log to begin with, which is at the point of capture, not grading. V-log's purpose is not to help grading, but to help set exposure when you have too large of a dynamic range in a scene. If the scene's dynamic range is not wide, then a standard profile can capture it no differently than V-log; but if it's a high dynamic range situation and you capture it with standard profile it doesn't matter if you turn it into V-log in post, you never captured the information at the point of capture. So, I'm not sure why you say V-log is not necessary. Yes, it's not necessary if you're always shooting under controlled lighting and can light to reduce dynamic range. But otherwise, V-log is needed to make up for the required latitude in a scene. Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding of V-log, not something that's helpful to grading of all scenes!
You are correct. The whole idea of log is to get RAW-like flexibility to the post-production. On the gh5 in 8 bit's vlog sometimes doesn't really work and you end up having macro blocking and banding, it's better to shoot in cine-d for a cleaner image. In 10bit's there is no issues with the vlog profile, but in theory HLG (that has the same DR and as wide colour space) can capture more information than vlog.
So if I would remake this video, I would say that for 8bits capturing vlog is not the best, for 10bits HLG is in theory better for capturing. BUT for post vlog is just great. Really gives a good flexibility for correcting. That's why the other profiles are turned to that. It's like 1 litre of soda is put into a bottle of 2 litres for easy mixing and modifying. You don't get more data, but it's easy to play around with it in vlog. :-D You get the metafore?
So in practice, if you can get better quality in 8 bit with cine-d turned to vlog and 35% more bits in HLG turned to vlog, what is the point of getting the upgrade? OF course, this is just the first version of the LUTs so there might be some issues in some shooting situations. (I'll run more tests soon) So for now if you wanna be totally sure, then get the upgrade, but after version 2 there should not be any reason to shoot in vlog profile, if you get the same with HLG turned vlog.
I really enjoy your personality
Thanks!
You got me! I paused haha. I'm about to purchase the GH5 and this is super helpful! Thank you so much man
Adan Sotelo you are most wellcome. Do check the free course as well.
You can approximate the color output of VLOG with what you have done but you will not have the same dynamic range in the footage. You will have less detail in the highlights and shadows. Also I would be careful of introducing extra processing that introduces banding.
You certainly have achieved a nice final look in the footage here though.
Matt Drummond I would agree with you in the case of real cinemacameras, but in the case of gh5 the dr difference is not so obious. For example a "senior colourist" was not able to see the difference in dr between cine-d, hlg and v-log after the conversion to v-log. The banding is an issue if you work in 8bits workspace (the footages bit depth doesn't matter) but luckily all major editing softwares work in 16 or 32 bit mode. Thanks for your words.
I'm interigued. Ok ready to give this process a fare shake but I'm stuck... how do I capture in huberglobama? Can you please spell out what you're saying around the 8min mark?
Hyper log gamma. :-D inside the free course you can find instructions about it on the settings page.
Awesome work keep it up!!!
I shoot Vlog. In premiere I apply tge Panasonic vlog to 709 lut. Then I tweak the curves saturation contrast etc to my liking. Simple and good results.
Good to hear that. Try my vlog to rec709 LUT, you might like it better. :-) Tell me what you think. The LUT is on the course page.
This is my third visit to this VDO, and Today I noticed the voice. I know who it is. It is used to be called Travel Feel. Well I have subscribe both channels buts everyone can have opinion.
Actually m thinking of Blackmagic Pocket 4K but not available so looking for GH5. Checking this vdo to make sure can I get BMD color. Thanks man. Keep ROLLING.
I have found no better luts than Joo Works. The Goat.
I'm eger to see what you can do with these LUT's. Your latest videos have already been so gooood!
Joo.Works bought them earlier 🙏💪 thanks for all your work 🔥🔥🔥
lapidoutnumber i went viral after learning from joo works 💰
lapidoutnumber i did with a lil help from the goat 😁
I like the Scandinavian look of log.
Love ur vids Bro!
Thanks for so professional speach. Respect. Great knowladge.
Great video man! just a question, when you reverse engineer the rec709 stuff to vlog, wouldnt the rec709, by its nature, have some of the blacks and whits clipped, which are un-recoverable when you add the log curve?
Yes, the conversion doesn't give you any new data. It wild just spread the captured data to vlog space. Where it's much easier to work with. Try the free coure and you get the idea on how to the process works.
Great video, definitely I will have to check out this package. Somewhat silly question, it might have been answered already. You see any major issues using these luts with the GH5s? I hear that the GH5s look/footage is very slightly different looking than the normal GH5. I'm assuming it doesn't matter however since the panasonics are made to match up for the most part.
I would assume that there is some differences and I'm still waiting for my GH5s to arrive so I can make tests and see how it really is different. I'll most likely make a set of LUTs for the gh5s as well and add them to the pack, then ship the new version to all previous purchases. But before that, I would assume that the gh5s looks good with the LUTs still, but just bit different. If you have one, then you can try the pack for 14 days and if you don't like it, just return it and I'll refund you.
Joo.Works thanks. I'll give them a try on the weekend. My GH5s arrives Thursday. I'll let you know how they work.
That would be super! I'm determined to make the LUTs work on gh5s as well as they work on gh5. So thanks for any help!
B&H NY store I ordered from closed for another Jewish holiday thing, so probably not till next week I will be able to send you some samples, but I'm at the edge of my seat to try out your awesome LUTS!
I paused. This was a great tutorial my guy.
Hahahahaaa TravelFeels exposed! I'm so glad someone finally addressed this "RUclips" way of color grading. It must come to an end!! Subbed :)
Luke Holliday :-) sony user will benefit very much from using the channel mixer as well. When shooting on redlog gamut the benefit is not as obious.
Very informative tutorial. You're right! never seen anything like this before. It looks simple but effective. I guess this should also work with the sony #a6300 and the sony #x1000v action camera. Thank you for secret settings 😉
Thanks! Yes, a6500 and a6300 will be next. First I'll refine the logic of the KIT as well.
This is amazing
You allways talk about GH5 and GH5s. But the GH5s has very different color rendering and output than the GH5. So with and for wich camera ist your colorkit been made?
I'd spend $ on one of your color correction courses. Great work Joo!
Recording a standard profile and making Vlog out of it in Post ist just bullshit. You miss a bunch of dynamic range and the low data rate of the GH5 signal wont hold up this insane way of grading. please stop confusing people to sell your lut package.
Nice to meet you as well. ;-)
ruclips.net/video/vUrjcAEtATE/видео.htmlm47s "of course the look up tables will not give you back any information you didn't capture... cine-d has less DR than vlog"
+when working in 16bit it doesn't matter if you bring the footage to the moon and back, as long as the ending point and starting point are close enough.
+the DR difference between profiles is not actually that different in low iso (based on testing). But I'm not interested to shake peoples beliefs so let's not start arguing about that. I'll upload a video about it sooner or later.
+The biggest difference between cine-d/std and V-log is the smaller gamut (colour space) this will limit the post-processing possibilities of the footage, for example, you can fix rather big WB differences in Vlog, but in cine-d, you hit the walls of the gamut much faster. BUT HLG has almost as big gamut as the vlog, so you don't loose there either (well... assuming that the conversion to vlog would be perfected, which it's not... at least in the version 1.0). Video about this will be up sooner or later as wel.
everything you say here is wrong: The Signal is 10bit max, VlogL has the highest dynamic range of all profiles, the big difference of VlogL is that you can shoot ETR and recover the signal by -1,5 Stops to get a clean and crisp image. please do you homework before publishing this videos.
AH! Scroll down the comments, we had these conversations already with someone else there. You seem like a guy who is more interested in theoretical arguments than actually testing. I'm more interested in testing. There will be test videos on the channel soon showing you what I sad in practice. Let's continue after those videos.
-With 16bit I was referring to the software working bit depth, which is 16bit in premiere pro, fcpx and resolve for example.
-Vlog has about 1/3 stop more highlight DR, but maybe 1/5 less in the shadows than HLG, based on testing
-ETR? ETTR? You can ETTR with whatever profile, even with your mobile phone's camera.
I invite you to join my messenger for chatting. I have learned a lot by chatting with people from youtube on my messenger. joo.works/join
Joscha Seehausen ..acually...Joscha you are wrong there.. Yes...in both GH4 amd Gh5 ....employing or using V log l does give 12 stops of dynamic range.......However...in the case of GH5s....hybrid log gamma has 14 stops... So.. It has more than v log l. I thought this was strange myself.. But when I attended an event for this camera.. I was explained this..
Why would use a channel mixer when you should be using a LOG to rec709 LUT that will perfectly, accurately, and optimally transform the image consistently to its intended output? That's the base of every LOG color grade and any good colorist would know this.
Interesting advice... There is a video of the course where I compare different LUTs and most of them are not accurate at all. Channel mixer is a tool to move colour primaries and change colour gamuts to each other. I would assume that this is common knowledge among good colourist, but if not... dunno why. :-/
Here is the course video about different LUTs: ruclips.net/video/TT8f7itteEI/видео.html Which one do you think is the most accurate?
There actually is a way to test the accuracy of LUTs. If you have a colour target with batched of known colour, you can measure the average delta (average difference in values) in the end result.
X-rite colour passport Macbeth chart done in sunlight with correct WB in V-log on the GH5:
Official LUT from Panasonic: 15,07
Leeming one LUT: 13,64 (after compensating for the exposure drop exposure 11,55)
Resolve colour management input LUT: 10,43 (after compensating for exposure 9,14 and after removing the extra DR with white point, as well 6,79)
The film LUT inside the kit in gamma 2: 9,86
The video LUT inside the kit with same DR as rec709: 5,07 (and to 4,29 with some manual channel mixer tweaking)
That was exciting to measure these! The film was surprisingly accurate even when it's a stylized look, but I'm sure the result would be worse if I would use a wider target to measure the tests with! But still what a surprise. BUT the lowest average delta you get from using the video look up table and you clip the high lights at 61 ire in vlog, where the super whites start. But that doesn't look good... rec709 has much less DR than V-log and to get the most accurate colours you need to clip the DR to match with rec709. But no one doesn't like clipped images and less DR, so total accuracy is not what people want (opinion).
None of the "not mine LUTs" clip the highlights, Leeming is the closest to and it's "DR roll-off" looks the worst (opinion). Real film is rather inaccurate, a good video camera is rather accurate, but most people prefer the look of film (opinion).
So the video LUT is the most accurate method (that I have in my arsenal), but the DR and extra colour gamut is compressed by eye to fit inside the rec709 gamma/gamut. Other than compression I have not done any "artistic interpretation" to is. (So don't thank me, thank the numbers) The film one is based on one old calibration file I did with the x-rite colour checker passport (not accurate at all :-D ) and for the unknown reason people really liked it, so I decided to make that into a thing and call it my "Film lut" :-D
I don't talk about these things in my videos, for only a few people really care about this level detail. But I do love to talk about these things with people who do... So... You have been so far the best commenter with the best arguments/questions on the topic. Most critique is just "opinions", like "this is a terrible workflow, don't use it" Without any arguments behind. If you would like to continue talking let's do so on FB messenger. I would really like to talk with a colour nerd like me. :-D joo.works/join Just send me a message and I see it and reply. You can immediately write "stop" to prevent the bot from sending you any notifications.
Thanks Connor. I'm glad I'm not the only one that see the fault in the logic and in the product. It's misleading, and that's more importantly the issue. I'm in no way 'unhappy' that I spent $100 on v-log. It lets me access camera data, highlight and shadow information, that no internal image profile can access, and to say otherwise really is wholly inaccurate. There is no extra recoverable data from cine-D that makes it act the 'same' exact way as v-log. If it could, you would have done a true A/B side by side to show it. All he's done is transformed the nuances of the gamma curve to a pseudo log, and recorrected via a style lut back to more of a full range rec-709 look.
Again, it's great that you're making Cine-D correction luts that improve the color accuracy of the profile, but don't tell people it's a replacement for v-log.
The cine-d to vlog is exactly that a pseudo v-log also called "remapped to vlog colour space." The LUTs do not give you back any data you didn't capture as I said in the video. When you shoot in cine-d the gamut is narrower that v-log so you can't recover that, but HLG is almost as wide as v-gamut. If I understood correctly that you said in the comment above that not other profile does give you the same data as V-log? How about HLG, it has the same DR and almoast as wide gamut, so what is the data that you are not collecting with HLG?
So how is this video misleading? Or how is this misinformation? I would be interested to hear some proof to these statements.
And a full A/B tests have been done, but no youtube video of them yet. I can send you a link to a dropbox folder if you wanna see your self. Or better yet, try to see the difference in the different profiles. So far few "professional colourists" have not been able to see the difference.
Hi Joonas!!! From Finland? I am in Helsinki as well, aspiring photographer and videographer! Cool channel, subbed :)
Well hello! I'm located in Tampere, at least the next month or so. Then I don't know where next.
Great job dude
Hey great video....doing the color conversion and then doing the curve stuff...would that work equally well with a black magic cinema camera ....have you used their codecs?
amazing work!!!
Hello,
does the Color Correction Kit also works with V-Log or any other footage coming from the GH4.
Thank you in advanve.
I have use the kit with gh4, with nice results. If you shoot 8bits and v-log the quality is bit bad, but cine-d works just fine on gh4.
Good video mate. Deffo will try. Learn smth new every day
Such a great work man! Thank you so much!
You are wellcome!
This guy just loves red color.
Hello, i watched your course, but I couldnt find your free luts. Where to download them?
How many luts are included in this colour correction kit?
I don't understand. I bought the Kit, but there is no "vlog to rec709", there's is only a "3. V-log to Rec709" folder with 19 .cube's in it, and none of them look good or natural. Extreme color, extreme contrast, not usable at all. Help?
Send me a short video or still to joo.works/feedback and I'll try to grade it with these Luts. If you don't like the end result, ask for a refund.
Thank you for showing the world the good way of color correcting video. Are you getting the GH5s?
I think I will... I have been playing around with cinematic lighting lately and it's easy to get cinematic lighting at light levels around 1600 iso, but with the gh5 the image is not as sharp anymore then... I hope the 5s has more sharpness there.
when shooting in hlg, hlg shooting settings stay at zero?
U got a like cause i paused :D Anyway thanks for ur work and thanks for sharing.
Well done... or heel goed if I judged your accent correctly.
I don't have a GH5, but still found this interesting. I'll be working on a film this Spring & may be able to use the techniques.
Dank U wel!
Channe mixer technique should work with any LOG profile and for example I'll be doing a video for sony a6500 someday soon. What camera are you using?
I just bought a GH5 but how do I get VLog downloaded to my camera?
Does all this apply to the GH4 aswell? or is there internal coding/mechanical nonsense that strictly makes this advice only suitable for the GH5?
Basically, are your luts only work with the GH5 V-Log or the GH4 V-Log aswell?
I have only made short test and based on those I would say it does. Others have said the same. So test your self there is 14day money back quarantee.