The 1001-hp Classic Car - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 26
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2020
- The Bugatti Veyron went into production 15 years ago, which means it’s now old enough to be considered a classic car in some places. Derek and Jason take a minute to discuss what was the fastest car in the world, the most expensive car in the world, and surely one of the most momentous automotive engineering projects in recent history.
Fresh off the heels off of the first episode of ISSIMI’s new “Spotlight” show, where Jason features the Veyron Super Sport 300 - the last-ever Veyron coupe produced - the boys discuss the two different generations of Veyron (the first, 1001-hp car was available in coupe “EB 16.4” and convertible “Grand Sport” form - the second, 1200-hp Veyron was also available as a coupe (“Super Sport”) and convertible (“Grand Sport Vitesse.”)
They reveal insider stories like the differences between Burmester and Puccini stereos in the cars, and what it’s like to drive vintage Bugattis (like Peter Mullin’s 1933 Type 51 that Jason drove on a Bugatti rally.) But really, this is just a discussion looking back at the Veyron’s incredible accomplishments.
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The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on RUclips alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
Don't forget to visit: www.issimi.com/
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Fast Fact: I’ve driven all 4 variants of Veyron a total of 285 miles. That probably cost more than I’m worth. Favorite excerpt from my notes: “You'll remember every second you spend with a Bugatti Veyron, and every one of them will be good. There's nothing to complain about; it's automotive perfection embodied in one 253-mph rocketship. It's faster than an Aventador but feels like being massaged by a down pillow, where the Lambo is like a hammer that hits you on the head. It's beautiful from every angle: inside, outside, and of course, through the microscope. It's a technological marvel that will never happen again; the vision of one crazy megalomaniac who wanted art in motion-and achieved it. And once you pull off the roof and hear the deafening sound of four turbos sucking in the combined lung capacity of 1,001 horses? You'll never be the same.” Indeed, I’ve never been the same.
I disagree that the drama about the speed key is cool. Quite the contrary, actually: They were not able to make the car go any faster than 375 kph because of its bad aerodynamics, the reason for which is not its immense cooling capabilities or anything. It is the round styling of all things, which does not even look good in the first place. The Veyron has a worse coefficient of drag than your Scirocco, Jason!
That's why the engineers had to get creative in order to beat the target of 406 kph. So they invented top speed mode, in which the handling is very much compromised. Which to me is sort of like sticking an M5 badge on your 530i - making people think your car is better than it actually is. And so I dare say the Bugatti Veyron is not only a pointless exercise but also fundamentally not right by Jesus.
Apart from that: I love your show! When I listen to you guys I get a feeling of ”Yes, there are indeed people out there who think like me!“ Apparently, I am quite an old man for my 22 years of age ... All jokes aside though: I have never been a fan of podcasts but you guys get me. Keep up the good work! You are my favorite car journalist Jason, so don't let me down! ;-)
Viele Grüße
How does it compare to Koenigsegg
Hey Jason! First, thanks for the video! I wanted to mention with regards to doing a video on Mr. Piech - Regular Car reviews did a video about Dieselgate that included information regarding his childhood and the relationships inside of the Porsche family. While the video itself does not go into amazing depth or detail, they do a good job of referencing the texts that they used for their research which might be helpful for you.
You are one seriously Lucky man
If you do a special about Piëch, listen to the podcast "Alte Schule" in german. Great interviews with all the key people during his period at Porsche and Audi. Drivers like Kauhsen, Ahrens, Linge, Herrmann, Barth etc and engineers like Mezger, Singer, Indra etc have all great stories about him.
PLEASE do an episode on Ferdinand Piëch - the political machinations within the Porsche/Piech family alone could consume an hour. A deeply talented, arrogant, fascinating man.
100%. Forthcoming.
Piech was a lion in a herd of sheep. He said that to his extended family (cousins and uncles etc). The only person he respected was his cousin Ferdinand (Butzi) Porsche. He used to say, Porsche was more interested in design rather than business. And, everybody knows, the car he designed, aka 911, is one of the most spectacular designs ever. btw, he had to convince his father not to go to wedge shaped and keep the tear drop shape. Sad that 992 version can be mistaken for an Audi from the back. Piech designed the quattro, wanted to work for Soichiro Honda, but couldn't, created the 1L/100KM VW (.89L/100KM actual)- drove this tiny car to a car industry titans' meetings in Stuttgart while having a cold in the middle of German winter. Did all these mergers revamped the brands,
One other thing among many, that is significant. Porsche has won 19 Overall victories at Lemans. And guess what, Piech created the 917 and nearly bankrupted the company, but his perseverance paid off, he created a team and car, to dominate every time they are on the grid.
From the om617 to the veyron the man is a genius
@@coreygolphenee9633 but the podcast is still not out lol
Woohoo can’t get enough of these
I hate the pandemic set up.
9:30 DThyphenScott is referring to a survey that found: "The average Bugatti Veyron owner, apart from their Veyron, already have 84 cars, 3 jets, and a yacht." _PS_ love you guys, where the hell else would I ever hear a comparison of the ABS pump frequency differences between the 1966 Jensen Interceptor and a 1990 Plymouth Voyager?? 👍👍
I finally have a reason to put off my work
I really did enjoy the Veyron vid last week, great episode of Carmudgeon this week too.
The drivers who drove the 917 in the 70's say that they never did 400 in Le Mans, just a bit below. Plus the tires were only homologated until 350 km/h. A fact the drivers didn't know...
although you guys mentioned hating sourcing the inserted images or clips, I must say they do add to the story. especially since opening two YT clips on your phone is nearly impossible. The "corinthian leather" clip for example was a nice addition. So guys; thanks for your efforts.
I was going to say just from an engineering perspective it is an incredible feat. That pushes the envelope for all cars. I also loved the hearing more about it.
"The Super Sport 300, 1 of 1, because it was the 300th coupe made." *brain explodes*
Oh yeah? Well my Corvette is also 1 of 1, because it is the only 1,058,394th one ever made. Luckily for you, it's for sale. No low balls - I know what I got.
@@dragonist2 is that a vinwiki ref ?
@@shubhadinesh6536 i think so, Ed Lambo ref
Puccini is not a made up name techically. Giacomo Puccini was an italia composer. (But then again the danish company Dynaudio just used his name for VW soundsystems. And they aren't connected to the old composer or his family)
Something else about the awd Audi: the concept didn't include a center diff. One of the prototypes was given to one of the senior engineers to take home over a weekend to try out the car in normal peoples use. And drove home to vienna, and he let his wife drive it. When she came home she complained about the behaviour of it while doing close turns like for parking the car ect. He then tried it out, and on Monday when he showed up again at Audi, he said: put a center diff in it!.
And another fun fact: The reason why Walter Rörl missed a season when Audi started with awd was that he had signed to drive for Mercedes, who wanted to build a awd version of the 190 for Rallying, but the upper management then got cold feet and canceled the project. (They weren't convinced that the FISA would change the rules to allow awd.) Now imagine Walter Röhrl in an awd 190... The guy who set a stage record in an rwd Opel in the early 80's on the Monte Carlo Rallye that was only beaten 2016 or so...
This is the first time I've ever heard about a potential AWD W201. You sure about that?
@@JasonCammisa Well, i remember Röhrl telling it in an interview (that i can't find on YT) but tas you know german, the fastest reference i can give you is a part of the german wiki page of Walter Röhrl, i quote: "Für die Zeit ab 1983 hatte Mercedes-Teamchef Erich Waxenberger Röhrl den Einsatz eines speziell auf die Anforderungen der Gruppe B hin entwickelten Wagens mit Mittelmotor und Turbolader, vergleichbar etwa mit dem Peugeot 205 Turbo 16, in Aussicht gestellt.[25] Wie Waxenberger und Röhrl sich übereinstimmend erinnern, stoppte der Vorstand der Daimler-Benz AG das Rallyeprojekt wenige Wochen vor der Rallye Monte Carlo 1981, als berechtigte Zweifel aufkamen, die Debüt-Rallye mit dem 500 SL zu gewinnen.[26] Nach Verhandlungen erhielt Röhrl eine Abfindung von 900.000 DM und wurde aus seinem Fünfjahresvertrag entlassen.[27]"
@@nirfz Iiiinteresting, but the timeline doesn't line up. There was indeed a plan to make a short-wheelbase, hatchback 16-valve W201 WRC, but that was Group A. The SWB hatch would race together with the LWB sedan (with a turbocharged 2.14-liter engine) to give MB the best chance at winning the manufacturer's championship (the SWB car would do better on low-speed rallies, LWB better on high-speed) but that was cancelled when MB realized it had no chance against the Quattro. The LWB sedan was given the 16-valve engine and the rest is 2.3-16 history. But that was never to be AWD... I'd never heard about the mid-engine version of the W201, but that would also be RWD, never AWD... but maybe that was the plan to homologate the hatchback with a Mittelmotor? I'll look deeper. But meantime, look up pix of the hatchback. I have some factory photos of the thing, complete with a W123 T-Modell hatch. Crazy-looking thing.
Having revisited Loris Bicocchi's career spanning interview, as well as his recollection of the 400 kph accident that he had in the Veyron at Nardo all I can say that I wish I were a fly during your test drive with him.
Two of the people with great car culture, whose life work and views on cars I admire and deeply respect sharing the same engineering marvel is something I'd definitely watch.
Hat's off to you gentlemen, keep up this great work that you're doing.
well well well if it ain't the static duo greeting me with a video at 2 am ........I accept this graciously
Giacomo Puccini was an Italian opera composer, so it was very fitting and quite creative to name a sound system after a composer.
Piech - yes please do a show about him. He is a legend here in Germany with a mixed legacy - his management style was...he was known as the tyrant - but also kinda genius, the brain and driving force behind a lot of innovations and legendary cars.
Someone get Jason a Chiron. I need that footage in my life.
I wouldn't doubt that wearing the same exact shirt as the day that photo was taken was intentional hahah
Great episode, thank you so much!!
Loris Bicocchi knows a thing or two about speed and engineering - Lamborghini Countach, Bugatti EB110, Pagani Zonda... Great to hear his name mentioned here!
Yesss!!! The day just got better.
Can’t get enough of you guys! Hands down! How about doing an episode about you two personal favorite modern cars of each category if you were to buy one? Like Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio for best sport sedan!
Loving the topics and dynamic of the show, addicted.
Always love the topic of conversations. But would like to add that it’s REFRESHING to listen/watching this channel and hear about about cars of passion and cars that I would not have known how amazing they are with out this channel. It’s just great to hear about cars from the past instead of ALWAYS hearing about new cars. Thank you for that.
Yes give me more of these!
I'm binge watching ur talks just because of spotlight! Content is amazing, keep it coming!
Love Carmudgeon Shows! Keep 'em coming fellas...
Veyron-episode was great! And VERY ready for an episode about Piech!
Always loved the Veyron, the Veyron SS feature and this makes me love it even more. Thanks a lot guys!
Another great episode.
The Type 35 is still being built, in Argentina of all places.. google Pur Sang
Love what you guys are doing! Keep it up!
If remenber correctly, Loris tune the first prototype of the veyron probably like or more aggressive than the SS. Piech at that time reject the car and told that it was too aggressive. So knowing the man, i can believe he cried when you told him that he felt like a Lotus
I fucking love these. That story about the veyron suspension tuner and the 80 year old chiron owner was great.
finally it’s here again!
My hotdog inspires awe.
7:30 "which is a completely made up name". No, it is named after Giacomo Puccini. It is interesting they chose this particular name. For many classical music listeners, Puccini = "cheap opera".
I think a Veyron dyno'd between 1030 and 1090 bhp at the crank recently.
That sounds about right.
Yes Jason, props on the Veyron video
Keep coming!
I really enjoyed the spotlight video. Interesting facts and tid bits I didn't know. Would like to see some more, bring on the Tests Rossa!!!
That is a GREAT thumbnail.
Very much agree. They seem to get their thumbnails right.
I remember the "Binaca Blast"! Oh, and I enjoyed the Polestar Spotlight!
Great Great work guys! May I suggest an episode on the targa top?
Every one dream to live in a castle, but not many are able to appreciate living really in one.
an episode featuring the Testarossa and all its variants would be great. an expose of the evolution, the different variations, and models would be eye-opening.
Eric Bauer a WHITE one. Definitely.
cNow I'm actually looking forward to Wednesdays/Thursdays for a new Carmudgeon show.
Quick note about the 917: It actually was even madder as depicted by you. There was a variant with about 1500PS. That thing weighed 845kg and had a 400 litre tank! So it was basically a driving bomb that could make 0-200kmh in 5,6 seconds and could reach up to 413kmh. It could be very well been used as a ground missile. And there were actually people mad enough to drive this thing
Yes. Do an episode about the Testarossa, TR, & 512M!
I sincerely think that people don't look at the Veyron from the perspective it should be looked at, and unfortunately the car - and the Bugatti brand as a whole - has developed a negative "playboy-ish" image in the media similar to how Lamborghinis are seen. What people don't see though, is that the Veyron was an engineering marvel and a milestone in supercars. It wasn't just a 250+ mph supercar, it was a 250+ mph supercar that Bugatti wanted to be everyday-usable, comfortable and reliable. Sure there were equally fast supercars around at the time, but the Veyron made the performance accessible in a more sensible and well engineered package. The backstory of the Veyron is also equally fascinating. And I think it's great to see that there are people that have started appreciating this side of the Veyron, whether it's their style of car or not.
I think what made the original veyron so special wasn't the numbers but the ease at which it could achieve them, similarly the concorde wasn't the first aircraft that flew faster than mach 2 but it was the first that it's passengers could have that expereince twice a day without wearing a g-suit and some times that is a bigger challenge.
As for a car that Gordon Murray probably hates i think that honnor goes to the sl55 amg because during the slr development, which Murray was part of and had lost many battles against the mercedes managment regarding the car's layout and purpose (he wanted an f1 succesor, mercedes wanted pretty much what we got), AMS published a nardo speed test which featured an early sl55 that reached 335 kph just a kilometer shy of the slr's official top speed. When he saw the article allegedly he went nuts...
ps1: a spotlight episode on the 600 benz would be quite interesting i think, another money no object german project!!!
ps2: etymologically corinthian is something from Corinth a greek city, which i supose sounded exotic enough for chrysler in the seventies :-P
Guys, please get randy pobst to join in on these! Great stuff, keep it coming. Looking forward to the piech episode.
I don't get why people say modern cars are heavy....so far as I can tell they've actually gotten substantially lighter in the last 5 years thanks to increased use of high strength alloys and composites, and smaller turbocharged engines. I'd venture to say that the mid 2000s, around when the Bug came out, car's were as heavy as they've ever been.
tbh I'm surprised they didn't use multidisk brakes on the veyron. cause they're much more thermally efficient and lighter than huge single disk brakes
They are noisy at all times, and require special wheels. they also transfer an incredible amount of heat to the wheels. I'd pass...
Has either / or Jason or Derek driven any Pagani? I wonder their take on them, because they have a lot of mechanical / analogue features for being modern hypercars.
Also - what about Koeningsegg? Their drivetrains, Freevalve etc.?
Jason, you're awesome, loved what you've done historically! Derek, wow dude, how much do you know?! What's your background? How do you know all this stuff?
Spotlight episode on the Mk2 recaro office chair! Haha but for real it’s cool
Yes! Best chair ever! :)
Having had the luck of being in a barrage of Bugatti's (only driven one though, but have been driven in them), I personally like the Chiron far more the Veyron, both visually and mechanically.
Sidenote: I also got to go into two McLaren F1's and yes, they are EVERYTHING they are said to be. The most amazing thing about the F1 is how small it is (seriously, think Miata), but it carries 3 people, a weekend custom / fitted set of luggage (in the 'wings' behind each door), and 6 CD's 😉.
4:25 I must be in the minority. Total car guy through and through, and I liked both Veyron's, and Tesla. lmao They're both impressive for what they are and push the envelope.
Steve Oswald same here
Either ur a snob, or ur just a car guy through and through
@@jswede1 How am I a snob for liking those 2 brands? I would legitimately own a Yugo as well.
If I'm not mistaken it takes a "shit ton" of additional horsepower to go from that 210 to the 268 MPH, that might explain the lack of luggage space as well, not to mention the 15 year fact Jason pointed out...
Just for accuracy, even Can-Am had significant restrictions from 1969 onward, essentially intended to restrain Jim Hall's Chaparrals. Unrestricted, both the Porsche 917/10 and 917/30 could have been even more radical and impressive.
There were still no engine restrictions, but there were rules forbidding movable aero devices and suspension upright-mounted wings. Given that Mark Donohue spent about a year at Weissach immersed in the design and development of the 917/30, and that Porsche was obviously deadly serious about it, imagine a truly unrestricted version with Hall's banned aero tricks.
So the Puccini audio system in the Veyrons is actually from Dynaudio
I had the opportunity to see the Bugatti Chiron SS 300+ in person and have a couple videos!
I think I remember reading that Veyron owner garage stat and it was 80 cars, a yacht and a private jet. Compared to the average Bentley owner that had only 18 cars.
Please make a video on Chiron also
Can we do one for the SL65 Black
please! I will never sell mine. No RS, AMG, or M car can come close to the 65 Black with its larger turbos. My car with only an ecu and ram air intakes makes 810hp and 1000tq. More mods coming soon.
Testarossa is my dream car. I owned one once, for a few days, as part of a complicated three way part trade process against a muscle car I had. The car needed a new clutch, windscreen, and had no service documentation. I did the clutch ($300 all told, and so easy), and passed it to the next guy. I truly couldn't afford to keep it; and the next guy spent astonishing amounts of money on it before it grenaded because he couldn't really afford it either. Honestly, I regret letting that car go more than any woman I've ever had. Actually, I miss many of my cars and motorcycles more than any woman that I've dated, so maybe that's the wrong benchmark.
That's because there is always a better woman to find, but not necessarily a better car.
Come to Houston when all this passes if you want to drive a Norwood TT Testarossa, Jason.
Just one question: What's Issimi? (Love these video's by the way.)
Great video as always. Do you have any experience with Koenigsegg? A spotlight video on them would be fantastic, or even icons. I think it is one of the most iconic hyper cars after it smashed the Veyron record and forced VW to respond, multiple times.
Puccini I guess was named after Giacomo Puccini a great italian opera composer of the late '800/early '900. I guess it was suited for a stereo in a 1.000.000+ bucks car.
Can you guys do an episode on Depreciation rates?
Jason hair has aged 20 years since 2010 but his face hasn't aged a day
You guys should make an episode about diesels, they seem to have a much cooler image in the U.S.
Hey Jason and Derek! How's it going?
As they are going on about weight of the original Veyron, I looked up the 2005 Lamborghini Murcielago. Also 4000+ lbs
36:47 technically the Koenegges beat them by 1 year with the "dear god don't let me die" CCR. but no one ever remembers that, so you're effectively right.
I hit a pheasant in a Ford Ranger back in the 1990's....That was costly...for the bird.
I’d expect named after Giacomo Puccini, the very famous (and very dead) Italian composer. Wrote a little ditty called ‘Nessun Dorma’ (from the opera Turandot) some bigger guy named Luciano Pavoratti sang the crap out of.
The anecdote about the 1001bhp "meaning it has more than a thousand horses" is a good example: People! Stop banging on about the numbers!
You should ask Manny khoshbin to drive his Chiron.
The only podcast better that this one Is joe Rogans, and maybe Chris Harris’s one
I'd much rather see more on the E30 Touring than the VW.
Ayyee
You can't inspect belts! It's not just the belts, it's the bearings too. It's not even mileage, rubber goes brittle, just have a look at your tires if you kept them 5 years
I think probably not yet, the Bugatti Veyron not even went to her first decade after It end production.
rcr did the research
Lists 500hp cars from mid 2000's, no mention of the viper.
If they each had a 5 car garage and unlimited funds, what would Jason and Derek purchase? Electric Smart car to a Chiron.....
Corinthian are those who have an origin from city of Corinthos here in Greece! :-)
But I bet that crappy leather in that piece-of-shit Chyrsler wasn't. :-D
You should always pronounce Italian names with full flamboyance in your videos because we Italians RULE!!!
Okay, fine. I'll just repeat what my parents said so many times: va-fon-culo, stron-zo, brutto, fa-tend-eh schi-vooooootz. Is that better? :P
The only song Jason has sang that I acc know and thats only cause Tyson fury sings it as well
Saleen S7 had 700+ HP around that time, right?
You guys are a little low on your GT3/Turbo S curb weights...
We should thank the french too then
Woudl like to know why you think David e Davis was an asshole. My experience in talking to him was the opposite. He was extremely genuine, honest and easy to talk to. He took my call, without an appointment gave me a lot of tome to tak about Phaeton Factory, Piech, 993, Ferrari etc. And the trade deals between US and Italy and Germany affecting cost of cars.
Apparently when landing a commercial airliner the brakes make enough heat to heat an average home for one year..
I've changed enough of them to believe it. Hauling a 200,000 pound vehicle from 160mph to 20 in 4000 feet is a big job, even with the help of reverse thrust.
I clicked on this video so fast I dislocated my thumb. 👍🏻
Please don't sue.
Your response to my comment has absolutely made my day Jason. 😁
As supple as fine Corinthian leather.
Wait wait what? Im pretty sure the Veyron had port and direct injection...
I doubt it
This discussion of rich people accepting the cost of things "like pheasant shooting" is why we should eat the rich. I agree that anyone should be able to spend on what they please, but I don't understand why we have made society so friendly to subsidizing them when their lifestyles are so offensive. The Veyron exists because all of us accept being just a bit poorer so that the rich can be so much richer that the huge cost is but a rounding error.