I am in Australia, so similar problems with accessing things like WWS base glue. I use Modge Podge as my base glue to avoid that shine from the dry glue. I have found most spray adhesives will lose their stick over time - the back of the can says that a single coat is for temporary bonds - and when using spray glue on my trees, I then need to give the tree another spray (I use cheap extra strength hair spray) to fix the leaves. I have found, when making pine trees, that a spray of spray adhesive, then apply the static grass, then apply the hair spray - almost with no time gap between applications works best.
Thanks Eric for your feedback and tips, brilliant stuff. I'm in agreement with your methods in that further coats plus an overall fixative (hairspray) is needed when using standard spray glue. It will be interesting to see how the water based spray glue goes over time. It is more expensive than standard spray glue ($21 NZD) but Supercheap Auto in NZ are selling cans for just $9 NZD.
WWS glues and products are now readily available through their Ebay store. The postage costs aren't too bad. The layering spray comes as a pump bottle due to them not being able to post the aerosol cans.
I needed material for making my own static grass and decided to use the furry edges of a piece of MDF that has been laying in my back yard exposed to the weather for about 18 months. I placed it in my coffee grinder and it fluffed up very nicely in random fibre lengths. I added artist's acrylic paints straight from the tube to the fibre in the grinder and whizzed it for a few seconds. Good result and it is able to be statically charged. I have not tried it through a static grass applicator but sprinkling it onto a PVA glued surface from a sieve produced quite satisfactory results. Rolly
Interesting experiment, i enjoyed seeing what works and what doesn't. About spraying glue..I wonder if an airbrush could do that job (i hate spraycans). Maybe the bigger version would work i.e. a touch up gun. I think it's time for me to do a little experimenting with that.... Happy Modelling ! (and greetings from Netherlands) :O)
That was interesting i never thought that lemon juice would work i have always done the classic neat PVA glue and that seems to work but again nice video.
Brilliant video and well-timed. Couldn't have been better in fact,. Just yesterday (July 18 2020) I bought a static grass applicator for a diorama I am working on. The static grass I got was cheap and a little false looking, so will be looking at a better quality one.
Thank you for your kind feedback, greatly appreciated. It's definitely a case of shopping around for static grass as there's numerous manufactures, types, quality and prices out there. As with me, It's a case of experimenting to achieve the desired result, and this includes all the post-treatments applied to the grass to bring the scene to life. So even a cheap/false looking grass may be salvageable with the addition of scatter, matte spray and dustings of powder or soil etc.
Brilliant feedback, thank you. I won't class myself as the mad scientist but I do love a good experiment, and regardless of the outcome... it's just fun.
When I started doing static grass, I thought the clip needed to be in the glue. I was wrong, and there are many others online that show that all you need to do is to keep the clip below the hopper. See ruclips.net/video/MY2uPg49tZg/видео.htmlsi=iJZyl47MQV2Yw2gH&t=79 and you will realise that putting the clip in the glue doesn't do anything at all. As a proof. After you have applies static grass, pull the clip out of the glue, hold it under the hopper, and watch the grass being pulled upright as you pass the hopper near the newly laid static grass. This is because the electrostatic field that guides the fibers is present in the air . Try it sometime, you'll be surprised.
Yes, I did make the applicator and for that exact reason, the price of pro applicators, which seem to range from $200 - $300 NZD, are ridiculous! I didn't see the point the in doing a video on how I made it because there are countless videos on RUclips on how to make them in all manner of varieties, it's just a case of searching 'DIY static grass applicator' or similar.
Hi. Just in the interests of scientific method, did you use a new square for the water-based spray glue, or just straight on top of the GP spray glue? I have no idea if this would be necessary, just wondered.
I did just go straight over the top on the same squares but 2 days later, so the previous spray glue residue had dried off. I doubt whether this would have had any effect on the success of the water based spray glue.
I've had a difficult time with static grass. I have both a peco/wws smaller one and bigger noch pro. I tried a variety of white glues. Except for cheap crud from China, us Elmer's or mod podge is ok. I found though all my static grass fell over once the applicator was removed. So I finally got so frustrated I created it in swaths... With a sheet of aluminum foil under baking parchment paper... And glue on that parchment. Then with both applicators connected to the foil I could apply grass and with some effort get the results I liked. I generally used the bigger noch. I also found the noch grass worked better for me than woodland scenics... Although why eludes me. Finally I developed a kind of layered approach, after an initial pass with 1.5 mm to 2.5 mm grass. I then sprayed over it fairly lightly a thin glue mixer I made following a recipe off the paepercuts channel. It's made from matte medium. This once prepared will spray through a pump bottle sprayer. Although it'll eventually clog. So spray over then initial pass and do it again with a longer length. Basically I'd go to 4mm and then 6mm. Sometimes I let the coats dry and did one swath of it a day or so. I guess in the end I think the vid channels promoting static geass are... faked, at least a little. Towan for example. Etc...
I suspected this might have been a factor with the standard spray glue as I sprayed the squares in the garage (didn't want glue everywhere in the office) and then brought the sample into the office for the grass application. Approx a 30sec delay maybe but spray can indicated up to 2mins for repositioning so thought it would be ok. I used exactly the same method (with time delay) on the water based spray glue with the successful result. Obviously the water based glue doesn't form a skin straight away.
Can you get Mod Podge Matte in New Zealand? I know that at least where I live I'd have to go out of town to get it, but at least then it's an option to avert the glossy grass appearance you get with that other stuff.
Mod Podge is available here in NZ from various retailers. As David mentioned, Spotlight, but also art stores and I think Warehouse Stationery. The only issue with Mod Podge is it's price.
Hi mate great video mate every intheresting i will try the water based spray glue if I can get it here in the UK I am using hhairspray at the minti it works not bad mate but that does seems to be better mate stay safe and well mate Clive
Hi I would be interested to know, did the acidity of the lemon juice take away the glittery shininess of the cheaper PVA glue in your experiment? Craig
Ok just wondered, thanks. Also have you looked at some of the free download kits from people like Wordsworth Model Railway? Mike has tutorials on here as well. Craig.
Your welcome Craig. I can't say I had heard of Wordsworth but have just had a quick look. The idea of downloadable kits to print is currently parked for me. I only have colour laser printers and they don't work too well for printing kits. Unlike inkjet where the ink soaks into the paper a bit, laser printers infuse an outer coating that cracks and rubs off if manipulated too much, this in the kit building side of things isn't much use. I do intend to purchase an inkjet printer at some point but possibly a large format printer so I can produce my own back scenes as well.
How wonderful to see someone carrying out a proper controlled experiment. Brilliant, informative, and so, so useful. Many thanks. Martin.
I am in Australia, so similar problems with accessing things like WWS base glue. I use Modge Podge as my base glue to avoid that shine from the dry glue. I have found most spray adhesives will lose their stick over time - the back of the can says that a single coat is for temporary bonds - and when using spray glue on my trees, I then need to give the tree another spray (I use cheap extra strength hair spray) to fix the leaves. I have found, when making pine trees, that a spray of spray adhesive, then apply the static grass, then apply the hair spray - almost with no time gap between applications works best.
Thanks Eric for your feedback and tips, brilliant stuff. I'm in agreement with your methods in that further coats plus an overall fixative (hairspray) is needed when using standard spray glue. It will be interesting to see how the water based spray glue goes over time. It is more expensive than standard spray glue ($21 NZD) but Supercheap Auto in NZ are selling cans for just $9 NZD.
WWS glues and products are now readily available through their Ebay store. The postage costs aren't too bad. The layering spray comes as a pump bottle due to them not being able to post the aerosol cans.
Hi from over the ditch, really enjoyed your experiment. Cheers from Australia
Thanks Gregory for your wonderful feedback, it's always greatly received.
Muy esclarecedor video sobre las cualidades y defectos de los distintos productos analizados. Felicitaciones desde Argentina.
Great video
Great practical experiment. Thanks!
Have you tried a test with matte medium? Wonder what the resistance is and how well it would work in the test.
I needed material for making my own static grass and decided to use the furry edges of a piece of MDF that has been laying in my back yard exposed to the weather for about 18 months. I placed it in my coffee grinder and it fluffed up very nicely in random fibre lengths. I added artist's acrylic paints straight from the tube to the fibre in the grinder and whizzed it for a few seconds. Good result and it is able to be statically charged. I have not tried it through a static grass applicator but sprinkling it onto a PVA glued surface from a sieve produced quite satisfactory results. Rolly
That's sounds fascinating and thank you for sharing, I'll have to give it a go at some point. Cheers, Julian
Excellent video with clear explanation and conclusive results.
Interesting experiment, i enjoyed seeing what works and what doesn't.
About spraying glue..I wonder if an airbrush could do that job (i hate spraycans). Maybe the bigger version would work i.e. a touch up gun.
I think it's time for me to do a little experimenting with that....
Happy Modelling ! (and greetings from Netherlands) :O)
That was interesting i never thought that lemon juice would work i have always done the classic neat PVA glue and that seems to work but again nice video.
I'd seen the lemon juice theory pop up several times over the years, so thought it was time to test it.
I am definitely saving this video. Unfortunately it came out just after I tried my hand at static grass on my module.
It's so great to hear the static grass experiment will be of help to you, albeit a bit untimely as you mentioned.
@@StationRoadModelRailway It is guaranteed I will install more static grass at some point in the future, so it will be useful at some point.
Brilliant video and well-timed. Couldn't have been better in fact,. Just yesterday (July 18 2020) I bought a static grass applicator for a diorama I am working on. The static grass I got was cheap and a little false looking, so will be looking at a better quality one.
Thank you for your kind feedback, greatly appreciated. It's definitely a case of shopping around for static grass as there's numerous manufactures, types, quality and prices out there. As with me, It's a case of experimenting to achieve the desired result, and this includes all the post-treatments applied to the grass to bring the scene to life. So even a cheap/false looking grass may be salvageable with the addition of scatter, matte spray and dustings of powder or soil etc.
Interesting and informative video-thanks for sharing 😎😎😎
Thanks Mike, more experiments are in the pipe line, so stay tuned.
Good to know, thanks.
I like the scientific method to your model railroad madness!
Brilliant feedback, thank you. I won't class myself as the mad scientist but I do love a good experiment, and regardless of the outcome... it's just fun.
@@StationRoadModelRailway I spend more time experimenting then modeling. I agree it is fun!
When I started doing static grass, I thought the clip needed to be in the glue. I was wrong, and there are many others online that show that all you need to do is to keep the clip below the hopper. See ruclips.net/video/MY2uPg49tZg/видео.htmlsi=iJZyl47MQV2Yw2gH&t=79 and you will realise that putting the clip in the glue doesn't do anything at all. As a proof. After you have applies static grass, pull the clip out of the glue, hold it under the hopper, and watch the grass being pulled upright as you pass the hopper near the newly laid static grass. This is because the electrostatic field that guides the fibers is present in the air .
Try it sometime, you'll be surprised.
Did I hear you say you made that applicator,If so any chance of doing a video how you made it.They are very expensive here in NZ.
Yes, I did make the applicator and for that exact reason, the price of pro applicators, which seem to range from $200 - $300 NZD, are ridiculous! I didn't see the point the in doing a video on how I made it because there are countless videos on RUclips on how to make them in all manner of varieties, it's just a case of searching 'DIY static grass applicator' or similar.
simpatico questo signore!
Do you have a video on how you made your static applicator
Hi. Just in the interests of scientific method, did you use a new square for the water-based spray glue, or just straight on top of the GP spray glue? I have no idea if this would be necessary, just wondered.
I did just go straight over the top on the same squares but 2 days later, so the previous spray glue residue had dried off. I doubt whether this would have had any effect on the success of the water based spray glue.
Maybe lemon juice would help if there is greater distance between the probe and applicator, I.e reduced resistance = greater conductivity.
I would say the jury is out for me on the lemon juice. Reading other comments also seems to confirm this.
I've had a difficult time with static grass. I have both a peco/wws smaller one and bigger noch pro. I tried a variety of white glues. Except for cheap crud from China, us Elmer's or mod podge is ok. I found though all my static grass fell over once the applicator was removed. So I finally got so frustrated I created it in swaths... With a sheet of aluminum foil under baking parchment paper... And glue on that parchment. Then with both applicators connected to the foil I could apply grass and with some effort get the results I liked. I generally used the bigger noch. I also found the noch grass worked better for me than woodland scenics... Although why eludes me. Finally I developed a kind of layered approach, after an initial pass with 1.5 mm to 2.5 mm grass. I then sprayed over it fairly lightly a thin glue mixer I made following a recipe off the paepercuts channel. It's made from matte medium. This once prepared will spray through a pump bottle sprayer. Although it'll eventually clog. So spray over then initial pass and do it again with a longer length. Basically I'd go to 4mm and then 6mm. Sometimes I let the coats dry and did one swath of it a day or so. I guess in the end I think the vid channels promoting static geass are... faked, at least a little. Towan for example. Etc...
Spray glue, you need to be quick as it flashes a skin quickly as the spirit evaporates quick and the grass won’t penetrate the surface
I suspected this might have been a factor with the standard spray glue as I sprayed the squares in the garage (didn't want glue everywhere in the office) and then brought the sample into the office for the grass application. Approx a 30sec delay maybe but spray can indicated up to 2mins for repositioning so thought it would be ok. I used exactly the same method (with time delay) on the water based spray glue with the successful result. Obviously the water based glue doesn't form a skin straight away.
Is the water you are using, distilled water? If it was tap water, it should read no resistance or a dead short.
Can you get Mod Podge Matte in New Zealand? I know that at least where I live I'd have to go out of town to get it, but at least then it's an option to avert the glossy grass appearance you get with that other stuff.
Try Spotlight,that’s where I got mine
Mod Podge is available here in NZ from various retailers. As David mentioned, Spotlight, but also art stores and I think Warehouse Stationery. The only issue with Mod Podge is it's price.
Hi mate great video mate every intheresting i will try the water based spray glue if I can get it here in the UK I am using hhairspray at the minti it works not bad mate but that does seems to be better mate stay safe and well mate Clive
Hi Clive, Ted from the USA mentioned Elmer's spray glue (a PVA spray) so not sure if this might be available in the UK?
Aussie science that doesn't involve beer!
Hi I would be interested to know, did the acidity of the lemon juice take away the glittery shininess of the cheaper PVA glue in your experiment? Craig
Maybe slightly, but the glittery appearance was still visible on the lemon test.
Ok just wondered, thanks. Also have you looked at some of the free download kits from people like Wordsworth Model Railway? Mike has tutorials on here as well. Craig.
Your welcome Craig. I can't say I had heard of Wordsworth but have just had a quick look. The idea of downloadable kits to print is currently parked for me. I only have colour laser printers and they don't work too well for printing kits. Unlike inkjet where the ink soaks into the paper a bit, laser printers infuse an outer coating that cracks and rubs off if manipulated too much, this in the kit building side of things isn't much use. I do intend to purchase an inkjet printer at some point but possibly a large format printer so I can produce my own back scenes as well.