How Do You Know When It's Time to Leave a Church? | Thabiti Anyabwile
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- Опубликовано: 8 янв 2022
- A clip from the "Politics and the Pulpit" panel at Courageous Conversations 2021.
You can watch the full conversation on demand here: www.courageousconvos.org/onde...
The full conversation is available here: www.courageousconvos.org/ondemand
When it Waze time for me to leave a church the spirit of the Lord let me know that churches are like schools he was allowing me to leave one church and go to the other because it was for my growth in him it was not about church hopping it was just that the former pastor had poured into me everything I needed on that level and I needed to go to the next level it's all about glorifying God and being led by the spirit of God the scripture says as many as are led by the spirit of God they are the sons of God so let's not get bogged down in the traditions of men and family and let us be led by the spirit so we can grow in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ amen
" Great Word. Preach the Word. Challenge us to stay Free in Christ.Stay on the Potters wheel"!! This Blessed me"!! Amen
Thanks very much. You just encouraged me. I'm at this phase in my life n I want to leave my current church graciously.
I believe I’m at this point in my life. I think I did all I’m supposed to do at the place I’m currently at.
Amen 🙏🏽
Thank God some one tells the truth! “ it hurts sometimes to be sanctified” 🔥 But thank God it is for our good to be sanctified by Almighty God.
Study your people, challenging them to grow in Christ, and let the word do the work!
Our faith will be challenged to stay on the potters wheel!🙌🏾
I had to leave my church after 12 years. It was where I came to Christ and I had wrestled with the reality that they were too soft on sin for a few years. However, when they embraced the LGBTQ+ community and said that it was okay for same sex couples to get married and that Paul didn't mean literally what he said in 1 Corinthians 6, I had to leave.
That was an obvious
That is a dead give away … don’t walk, run from that church.
Guess you became God here. You decided who is worthy of love and who isn’t. You decided to choose Paul over God. You decided to allow the enemy to steal your joy and keep you from loving others and worshipping God in spirit and truth. You decided so much in your choice to leave that you did not get the opportunity to see God’s grace at work. Perhaps you’ve missed God’s grace in your own life. We are the body. The straight cannot say to the gay, we don’t need you. We are all one body in Christ. Perhaps those are the words of Paul you could have chosen to live by, rather than his or your own misunderstanding and misinterpretation of who is in God’s family. Paul was not God. Neither are we. Love God. Love your neighbor. Love yourself. Do not judge lest you be judged. Blessings and peace to you.
I agree with you. We all justify things when it fits a certain narrative that we want to live by. Unfortunately some churches today openly accept these situations because they want to keep getting "money" by any means necessary, so they'll twist the words in the Bible and overlook what's there to satisfy worldly matters. It's really sad!
@@bearngiftsplus9524 just to add a thought: I think many go along with falsehoods or they will lose their 501C3 status they locked into many years ago for tax exempt knowing if they do not comply with satan's rules they will have to reimburse the past taxes also...
Grow your relationship with the Holy spirit and allow Him to lead you into His perfect plan for your life.
That’s IT!
Amen, so true!
Agreed!
So true. More often than not we as believers think our direction is coming from a medium in the form of another human when the Lord has ALREADY given each and every one of us the same measure of his spirit, which is 100%....for all men. God is not a respector of persons, so why would he give someone outside of ourselves divine instructions for our lives? It has already been given to us. Anything spoken to us by another human being should be confirmation of what God already told us. Anything other than that is confusion. God is not the author of confusion. The challenge is submitting to our own adamic nature to the spirit within us already.
"You're free in Christ. If you feel like you need to leave, leave. If you feel like you need to stay, stay."
Thabiti has come a long way since his 9Marx days. I welcome this change.
Change he’s always been like this, he’s Islam debates in Dubai 20 years ago he sounds exactly the way he does now
You need to hear God tell you that it is time to leave or stay. I have experienced this more than once, it is not about your feelings. It is about what God is doing in You or what He may want to do through you in that particular situation. I humbly submit .
I'm in that predicament now....my mental state is causing me to need to leave at this present time....humbly asking for prayer....
@@zimzadaahI'm there with you but as much as I seek God he has not released me clearly. I strongly feel he's testing my character, it's a tried by fire situation so until it's crystal clear then I cannot go 😢 prayers that you make the right choice as hard as it is
@@priscillajimenez9419 this was a year ago and I did leave. The Lord actually released me to go way before I physically left. As I look back on it now, it was the right decision and I'm at peace about it.
@@zimzadaah amen to that, growth!
Let the word do the work. That’s it.
What if the word is being twisted by the pastor from saved to being saved?
@@jld4870 Let the word do the work. Think about it.
@@michaelfarmhand Thank you Micheal, I hear you and believe that the holy spirit will guide us all should we listen and wait.
Yet I am still struggling, for if the true doctrine of Christ is not being preached how can the flock move from milk to meat and become teachers for the lost.
Heb 5:12, 6:1-2.
In prayer 🙏
This is good..thank you! Personally, My commitment is NOT to culture, but to Christ Jesus..am I witnessing with my own eyes Leaders that are devoted to the Word of God exclusively, and not just keeping their eyes on the man next to them?? Constantly comparing themselves?!? That man doesn’t draw me closer to God, but the Word of God surely will. Some people leave because their church is no longer their “flavor”, let the motive to stay/leave be a Spiritual one..😌
totally agree with what he said, preach the word flat footed and let it do its work. support those who would like to leave . some does it does hurt, God is the works through it all.!!! Amen
Preach the GOSPEL only,not anything else
“Let the Word do the work”. That is profound.
Oh this man is awesome I cannot wait to hear the full episode
Thanks for the encouragement & enlightenment!!!!👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Thank you for directing People with compassion. We must empower people to live what God called them to be. 🙏🏾
Thanks for this Blessed encouragement. Find it to be so true"!!Amen
Good. That’s been me since this Pandemic, I’ve been challenged to leave.🔥🙏🏽
This was awesome. Id love to hear more from him.
…often encouraged, and blessed with Godly insight when I hear this brother. js
Cover my Pastors Lord. They really shepherd. Serve unselfishly and sacrificially. Give us more like them oh Lord.
Wonderful clip. Love the wisdom here
Thank you so much!!!
Amen. Thank you so much.
YES preach the word!!🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Well said brother. This is sound teaching and wisdom💪🏽
Most importantly, WHEN THE HOLY GHOST SAYS TO LEAVE.
That’s some good word! Man, if we could just let the conflict(iron) sharpen the conflict(iron) with a huge dose of grace.
Bless you!!! The body of Christ needs to hear this.
What if the doctrine of Christ-Christ died for all our sins for all time-is not believed by the pastor. Pastor believes-being saved not saved and that we can ‘lose’ our salvation if we choose to walk away, Christ will not fight the will of man. Yet the word says Jn 10-29: My father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
Is this not against the foundation of which we stand?
Not sure you’ll answer this but I am struggling with it.
Gods peace and rest be with all!
I'm listening. However, the "wisdom look" of "hoary hair and beard" is outstanding.
Now, the word went forth with power. The disciples should have learned to EXPOSE enemies in the Kingdom. If not, they will become MORE BRAZEN. They're angry because you "don't fit in". I'm peculiar, l don't want to fit in. I will expose those who "come against me like a flood, God will raise up a standard against them". Amen. Amen. Amen.
preach to the sins of other people with fear of people leaving. preach the word challenge your congregation to come up in Christ. it hurts to be sanctified. be holy because Christ is holy
Preaching to God's people.
First time I've ever heard someone from the Gospel Coalition say women pastors Favourably 🔥🔥
Thabiti doesn’t believe in women pastors but there where some on the panel
Fully Agree
Well it sucks not having a pastor for the past two years 😅. In addition to that, I’m no longer “there” theologically… in a Pentecostal church.
Keep Flying 🐦 Brother Until You Find your Truth Ase Ase Amen
“If those who guide you say: Look, the Kingdom is in the sky! Then the birds are closer than you. If they say: Look, it is in the sea! Then the fish already know it. The Kingdom is inside you, and it is outside you. When you know yourself, then you will be known, and you will know that you are the child of the Living Father; but if you do not know yourself, you will live in vain and you will be vanity.” - Yeshua
What passage is this?
Slick Trick Exactly 💯 This is Kemetic my People Perish Because they Lack Knowledge
@@BboyKsmooth Gospel of Thomas, Logia #3; Translation by Jean-Yves Leloup
When and where can I see this in its entirety?
You can watch the full conversation here: www.courageousconvos.org/ondemand
Facts. Most definitely leave the unhealthy church that is destroying the local body. If your Pastor's messages are abusive, condescending and lacks comparison to the character of Jesus.
Especially if the leaders/elders are tearing down women. Then yes, leave. But stay if your Pastor/Leadership team are trying hard to do things according to the bible in love
AMEN 🙏🏾
Good stuff
Preach to your people!!!!
A true Christian, a child of God, is really asking himself: what do I have to do so that I do not end up in the situation of renouncing the Lord God ??? Or: What can I do to avoid losing communion and fellowship with the saints ???
In the Bible we find it written that: thus we can distinguish between those who are in the midst of the Church and those who are not.
THAT'S THE TRUTH, PREACH ONLY THE TRUTH. LET PEOPLE GET MAD, THERE IS SO MUCH TRADITIONS OF MAN. WE WORSHIP THE PASTOR INSTEAD OF RESPECT HIM FOR BRING THE TRUTH. I'VE SEEN THIS DONE SO MUCH. SOME PASTORS NEED THE ATTENTION SOME WOMEN GIVES THEM, SO THEY PLAY GOD. IF A PASTOR DOES NOT PUT HIM WIFE FIRST, SHOWING HIS LOVE FOR HER AND NOT INAPPROPIATE ATTENTION FOR WOMEN IN THE CONGREGATION I WOULD HAVE NO USE FOR THAT CHURCH.
*Let the Word do the work!* Couldn't have siad it better the problem with many pastors is they want to make things happen by themselves, they try to do things that only God can do and try to apply their own strength in the end they either get frustrated or begin to mangle the truth in order to get more followers. Answering the question, "When should you leave?" I would say when you realise that ;
They do not teach the word or they do but it is always about carnal things or even demons,
The way they do things in church is not based on scripture or even contrary, when there is repetitive preaching of heresy LEAVE!
The last one is the most challenging because yes they may teach the word and adhere to bible principles but somehow you don't see the fruit, the church never seems to grow church is made up of the same old people, you feel suffocated it is as though the Spirit of God cannot move in that place, instead of liberty and joy there is bondage.
When you are no longer growing you feel like you have hit the ceiling and outgrown the church, the same thing happened to me when i left my old church, I was frustrated because I was not growing, church never evolved things were being done the same way over and over there was no room for my gifts to flourish so I left. Two years later the church was split into two because of a dispute over money and power
Love this👏👏👏
What is the litmus test of determining when someone's xenophobic ideology rises to the level that it oredominentlybdrives their homiletical stance
"Resort?" Give me a break. Read John McWhorter take on this as tge Catechism if confusion. This I s an alternate gospel and a civic religion. Our identity is in Christ alone. Read voddie Bachmem and James Lindsey.
Test all spirits that they be of God and secondly keep in mind the Helper the Comforter even. Verse >> Psalms 118:8-9 KJV
Its time to leave when a Pastor spits on you.
🙏
I like that. Stay on the potters wheel.
Amen
I'm still tussling with the fact that my pastor said during the George Floyd situation that he was a recovering racist and that it was hard for him to talk about that particular topic.
At least he was honest. I respect that.
@@camijohnson9750 I respect his honesty as well just trying to figure out how to process it
@@kwilliams6784 Are you in a congregation where you can sit down with your pastor and talk about this face to face with him?
My pastor didn't even mention George Floyd...AT ALL. That was a time when I, as a POC needed acknowledgement and compassion. He also later asked/said, outside the pulpit, why do black people keep feeling sorry for themselves? The Jewish never complain and have done well for themselves." As the 🔥 rose up in me, I made the decision not to engage that type of ignorance. He also denies that there are predominantly white and black churches. Needless to say, my husband and I left that church, a church that we were so heavily involved in. It was absolutely heartbreaking.
@@neka7994 sorry to hear that.
Only when compassion is present will people allow themselves to hear/see the truth.
God’s peace be with you.
2 of the biggest reason are leaven the church.
#1. Is church hurt.
#2. The church is being ran like a business. No souls are being save that way.
Thats the issue, its Gods people. Until the church is seen as a community of believers within the Body of Christ and not pods of one mans ideology of what the church should look like then this issue will remain unresolved. We must get back, all of us must get to Gods intent of the church.
Biblically God does not dwell in hand made temples and he is not a God of Confusion. Psalms 118:8-9 KJV Finally, Christ is the only expert on Scripture
"Preach the Word, flat footed, is what this Pastor says. I see talk about churches grappling with Pastors who condone 'White Supremacy" I am definitely against that! But, what about Romans 1: 26-28? My church currently accepts Homosexual's to lead in liturgy and music worship. Comments, please?
Maybe they're lesbian guy lol Stop judging
@@Sweetdification I wasn't judging, only asking. Did you read the scripture?
@@ronb4187 I understand But There's A Whole Lot People Don't For insta stances Amen What does that mean? Where does it come From I think 🤔 We should more focused on love Then the Rudiments of the Word With loving Kindness Have I Drawn Thee the LGBTQ is An Ostracized Community and have a right to worship Gd Yah however they feel You don't know what these people are going or been through and sorry for calling you guy Brother you are just going By what you Know!?
How about if Your Pastor make you feel bad if you can not Pay Tithes or Preach on You... These Pastors need to Preach Malachi 3 Correct and telling the Members that they are cursed with a curse if they do not pay Tithes...
May I ask in that case is it the Pastor or the Holy Spirit inviting you to trust him with your finance? May I suggest to pray about it?
You are telling on YOURSELF! You cant afford NOT TO PAY 💰 TITHES!!
@@sanjoserock1 Malachi addresses the priests and was not a rebuke of the people. Malachi is under the law. Paul never addresses the tithe. We are under a new covenant. Paul addresses how we give. We are under a better covenant/Grace. We give because we love the Lord and how he has blessed us. I have always paid tithes. But the tithe is old covenant. God will not curse you for not tithing. "God loves a cheerful giver". That is for us under the new covenant. Please read Malachi from Chapter 1 up to the chapter about the tithe. Some teachings have been distorted to benefit men. It is good for us to financially support our churches and the men of God but we have been deceived by this teaching.
@@patreese4616 You are absolutely correct! Also, tithes have nothing to do with money. This is why we must study the bible for ourselves.
What is the jude 3 project
GARBAGE!!!!!
This is good 🗣🗣🗣🗣
If sin, then leave. Those members need to support n do something. Most complain n do nothing. I see episodes on jude project, I see young folks saying why I left. Guess what young folks stop complaining n help. U not all that either!!
Throwing up the triple 6 at 2:48 why?
When EVERYTHING you say or do and your humiliated like a dog every time you enter the door.
In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13, the Lord Jesus presents 3 different areas where the seed (God's Word) falls into the heart of man.
The heart - the soul of man is the earth in which the Lord God plants His Word. The first example (a harder soul) is the feeding area for birds. Why??? Because it is easy to hunt what you see and it is lost very quickly.
The second example (the stone soul). No matter how hard God tries to put His Word in this soul, it is in vain. The worries of the world, its pleasures and demonic corruptions are powerful. A tree without strong roots, deep in the ground, can collapse in a strong storm.
The third example (the good soul), the perfect soil for sowing, receives the Word of God with joy. During his life with the Lord God, he develops, enlightens, drinks, and nourishes himself with solid, healthy, spiritual food, and the water of life is poured out upon him by the Holy Spirit.
@1:09 "pastor" and "she" ???
The church should not be political
Reading the stuff in that Word.....it was all political, back then!
Our Quaker Meeting went hard for the Narrative.
I'm struggling with leaving my church. It has a under tone of white supremacy
Can you talk to the pastor about how your spirit is not at rest? I have chosen to email mine over some questions so I can re read and review and pray about our dialogue.
I believe just as the pastor needs to be bold all of us need to be bold and listen to the Holy Spirit, it’s ok to have questions.
I'll keep you in prayer. I had to make the same decision. I talked with the pastors and leadership, whom all tried to get us to stay, but the Holy Spirit was so heavy on me and I kept getting confirmation after confirmation that it was time for us to go. Some churches are just for a season.
@@neka7994 Thank you for the response, I appreciate the prayer.
I so appreciate the wise words of this preacher, they came at a time of many questions for me.
This question is not a reflection on your very difficult decision, just a question that has been in my spirit.
What if I lived in a very rural area and there was only one ‘country’ church.
Gods bless you and thank you again.
sound doctrine .. mhhhh
Leave when they charge you 💰
I was listening until he affirmed female pastors.....
I was literally just in my word praying and this is what I was led to before I even saw this video Galatians 3:28
Acts 2:17, Gods word never changes and I know everyone's argument is the scripture where he says " I suffer not a women to teach" that was not a command it was a strong suggestion along with women are not to wear gold or pearls or braids etc. come on man, God will use a rock to cry out if no one else steps up. We must stop being ritualistic and religious and hear from God what does his word truly mean and ask him because he's still speaking loud and clear( another thing people don't believe in) Jeremiah 33:3
Psalms 118:8-9 KJV folks err when not trusting God. Only a few know meaning of true religion.
She? Pastor?
Nobody will force us to be with and to be without The Church Pastor haved no authority over our relationship to Jesus Christ
If you are not receiving biblical teaching...if there is no bible foundation in the church.
Pastor must not blamed Church members going in and out
He didn't really answer the question
Not Really
He has written a whole book about church membership - perhaps you should read that? He also has an article online on The Gospel Coalition. Don't expect a five-point short answer to complex questions. He did a good job here.
If the church doesn't teach the Apostles' Doctrine, Acts 2 38 the original plan of salvation, then you should not have there to begin with. Acts 2 38 the true New Birth.
He said you should leave a church if the pastor is teaching white supremacy? If the pastor is teaching any false doctrine you should leave because “God is no respecter of persons” God does not consider some people better than others. I left a church because the pastor made a fundamental misinterpretation of a passage. He called Jesus a racist. If he is getting that wrong what else is he getting wrong!
The question he was answering was related to race - the Jude 3 project is very much about Christianity and race. So he is answering from that angle. He has written a whole book about church membership which takes a comprehensive approach.
Seriously??? Is that so??? Can some of us think of leaving the Church ??? I haven't read this anywhere in the Bible. Rather, "do not leave the congregation as is customary." "What kind of talk are these people talking about?" Where did they come from and what are their professions ??? What kind of teachings do these people give ??? Nowadays, all kinds of specialists appear on the street corner with all kinds of online courses and light diplomas obtained after 3-6 months of training and an hour-long exam.
Go to a Bible believing church
Yes 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
It so time to leave any church where the pastor is a bully and alway speaking bad about women. If you are not growing why stay,
Agree. My pastor and his wife was a bully and very controlling. So I left. And my life has been the best since I left 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Every church is not CHRIST BODY. If they were they would wear his name.
If your pastor or elder is behaving in a sexually inappropriate way towards you or someone else it's time to go.
when they spit in your face maybe..? ask Pastor Todd 🤣
we shud considr tht "th church systm/culture was religiously manufracturd/nstitutionlyzd out of greek-roman mpyr/roman cathlocysm/colonylyscm/raycsm...
The eklessia-th first calld out-faithfully practicd th gospel/good news of Christ n th powr of The Holy Spirit...it is only n The Holy Spirit do we hv ntimacy wth G.O.D thru Christ...2 cornth 2...since abot th taken up of ndividuls (matt 24) ths continully seems to b achievd for ndividuls who faithfully commit/submit to Christ...jeremh 31:16-40...
Exactly 💯
How bout when the gospel is distorted and all of a sudden wokeness becomes a sacrament...
You’ll know when the pastor stop preaching from the word of God and the Holy Spiritbwill tell you