4:30 "Clitic" is used to describe different things from language to language, but the general difference between a clitic and an affix is that, while both need to be attached to a word, affixes have to be attached specifically to the word they're associated with. So, the in "queens" is a suffix because it has to attach to 'queen' (compare "queens of England", not "queen of Englands" because queen is the thing that's plural), while the
That's the way I think of it too! It seems like a clitic attaches to a whole grammatical phrase but an proper affix attaches to just one word that can't be broken down and have those bits move around. I usually try to add a relative clause or adjectives in to see if the affix moves away from the head or sticks to it. I like to compare the 's in English to other languages' Genitive affix. It seems fine for me to say "The woman who just ~left's~ box of clothes is making a ticking sound" but the structure of that sentence in a language that uses a Genitive case might have that reflected on the word for woman itself.
I wonder how you would categorise an affix that attaches to multiple words in the noun phrase; consider the definite article in Hebrew ⟨ה־⟩, that essentially 'infects' all adjectives attached to a definite noun ⟨עץ גדול⟩ → ⟨העץ הגדול⟩
Louie here :) Thanks for the mention Alex!!! And thanks for the video! I finally have a grasp on glossing; now that I understand it, I'll use it when I do my conlang showcases on my channel!!!
OMG KIMKIMKIMKIMIMIKIKIM i actually don't like dis vid too much 😭 i got so mad at the audio and idk so i'll probably remake it at some point in de toekomst
Thanks for talking about word order like I asked! I think at the end of the day my problem with interlinear is that there aren't enough rules, which sounds dumb since it's good for people to be able to choose their conventions, but I'm a very rules-focused and indecisive person, so it's sometimes hard for me. Like if I did want to gloss something shown by word order, I'd have to come up with my own convention, and the same if I wanted to gloss a morpheme conveyed through vowel lengthening, deletion, or grammatical stress. Idk I guess it's a problem with me, not the system. Great video!
Thanks! IMO the problem isn't with you, it's with the fact that glossing is just not a replacement for actually explaining how a language's morphemes work. It's impossible to extract from the gloss that the word _tētahi_ in Māori becomes plural when you remove the /t/ ( _ētahi_ ), nor that _tangata_ becomes plural by lengthening the first vowel ( _tāngata_ ) this is something you'd just have to explain if it's relevant in the context, since it's impossible to fit every single detail about a sentence in a gloss. Like I said at the end, it's a great tool for simply providing more information beyond just translating, but it'll never provide all of it.
Thank you so much, this video is a lifesaver. All the resources I could find about this on the internet just listed all the abbreviations for verb tenses.
Remember that an interlinear is NOT a replacement for a translation if you do not know the grammar (or anything) of the object language! Funny something like that should be said, but I've met people who "translated" stuff from Koine Greek with an interlinear, and they didn't know anything about Ancient or Modern Greek.
I am a very visual learner and I use colors when I try to break down and understand hard grammars all the time. If there was a standard way to use them so we could use the same colors to communicate the same things. (🙃 Another standardization) I would love to learn more about how you and your friend's hlossing system works. It looks super interesting!
That's very cool! It's exactly what he does (labels each thing with a color). This would be great in theory, but in practice, most languages have much more categories than feasibly distinguishable colors, so it could be hard to have this sort of standard, but if it helps _you_ , by all means keep doing it in your notes!
@@agodawg Thanks! I think most actually don't really like it too much, especially as loud as it had to be in this video (see the description lol) but yk. Will keep refining stuff :)
4:30 the way I think of clitics is that they are subject to syntax rather than morphology, but which join an adjacent phonological word. These can be difficult to identify, of course, and the clitic/affix distinction often remains hotly debated when describing a language.
This is very cool and I'm surprised I've never heard of it. I guess it's just a more elaborate version of word for word translation. More of a standard notation for linguists though, I don't think this is that helpful to language learners.
Yeah it's absolutely something made and used by linguists, but I've found it to be very helpful when learning languages since I'm more aware of which morphemes contribute which bits of meaning to the overall word, so I'd say there's no negatives to learning how to gloss!
AW why not? Even if you don't want to commit to linguistics as your entire major, it's totally possible to take some intro level classes and see if it's something you'd wanna do!
If you have one element in the object language that has several different definitions in english, do you just indicate them with a forward slash in the metalanguage? E.g., the word "dire" in Italian means "to say/tell" so would I gloss it like this: "say/tell-INF"?
I would personally pick the one that's more appropriate in the metalanguage translation, and then if needed, make a note/footnote explaining the nuance. I'd probably gloss "voglio dirti qualcosa" as so: Voglio dir-ti qualcosa want.1SG.PRES **tell**-2SG.DAT something I want to tell you something I would choose "tell" since you wouldn't say "I want to say you something" in English (the metalanguage). Then, depending on how relevant it is to what we're talking about, I could write a footnote along the lines of "dire means both 'to say and to tell'". Again, glosses are not replacements for complete explanations, so it's not always a good idea to try fitting as much information as possible in a gloss if it's not necessary or fully relevant :) (I don't speak Italian so let me know if this translation is off)
Hey! Overleaf's XeLaTeX compiler (could be different on other platforms) supports a much wider array of unicode characters (though not anywhere near all unfortunately), so I was just able to directly input the character _š_ Lmk if you have further questions!
@@Sundrobrocc oh, thank you. i didnt know if those were implemented into latex or if it was an external program that does it, so thanks for clarifying :D
I've always done some kind of glossing in my head out of boredom (with examples very similar to "maktbtš") without ever realizing that it's an actual standardized linguistical tool!! Thanks for this introduction to this process. It seems very useful not to mention how fun it is ^^
4:30 "Clitic" is used to describe different things from language to language, but the general difference between a clitic and an affix is that, while both need to be attached to a word, affixes have to be attached specifically to the word they're associated with. So, the in "queens" is a suffix because it has to attach to 'queen' (compare "queens of England", not "queen of Englands" because queen is the thing that's plural), while the
Very interesting and the example you gave makes a lot of sense, since it's useful to make the distinction in the context of English. Thank you!
That's the way I think of it too! It seems like a clitic attaches to a whole grammatical phrase but an proper affix attaches to just one word that can't be broken down and have those bits move around. I usually try to add a relative clause or adjectives in to see if the affix moves away from the head or sticks to it. I like to compare the 's in English to other languages' Genitive affix. It seems fine for me to say "The woman who just ~left's~ box of clothes is making a ticking sound" but the structure of that sentence in a language that uses a Genitive case might have that reflected on the word for woman itself.
@@agodawg Yeah, that's absolutely right.
I wonder how you would categorise an affix that attaches to multiple words in the noun phrase; consider the definite article in Hebrew ⟨ה־⟩, that essentially 'infects' all adjectives attached to a definite noun ⟨עץ גדול⟩ → ⟨העץ הגדול⟩
Exactly what I needed at 3 in the morning, more (really cool) linguistics content to feed on
AW YAY
Louie here :) Thanks for the mention Alex!!! And thanks for the video! I finally have a grasp on glossing; now that I understand it, I'll use it when I do my conlang showcases on my channel!!!
hell yeah!
AAAAAA!!! I absolutely adore your content
OMG KIMKIMKIMKIMIMIKIKIM
i actually don't like dis vid too much 😭 i got so mad at the audio and idk so i'll probably remake it at some point in de toekomst
Thanks for this, i always wondered how glossing worked
Always love the clear and logical examples in your videos! Can’t wait for more!
HAHA AW VANE 🍑🏓
Thanks for talking about word order like I asked! I think at the end of the day my problem with interlinear is that there aren't enough rules, which sounds dumb since it's good for people to be able to choose their conventions, but I'm a very rules-focused and indecisive person, so it's sometimes hard for me. Like if I did want to gloss something shown by word order, I'd have to come up with my own convention, and the same if I wanted to gloss a morpheme conveyed through vowel lengthening, deletion, or grammatical stress. Idk I guess it's a problem with me, not the system. Great video!
Thanks! IMO the problem isn't with you, it's with the fact that glossing is just not a replacement for actually explaining how a language's morphemes work. It's impossible to extract from the gloss that the word _tētahi_ in Māori becomes plural when you remove the /t/ ( _ētahi_ ), nor that _tangata_ becomes plural by lengthening the first vowel ( _tāngata_ ) this is something you'd just have to explain if it's relevant in the context, since it's impossible to fit every single detail about a sentence in a gloss.
Like I said at the end, it's a great tool for simply providing more information beyond just translating, but it'll never provide all of it.
Thank you so much, this video is a lifesaver. All the resources I could find about this on the internet just listed all the abbreviations for verb tenses.
Glad it helped!!
Remember that an interlinear is NOT a replacement for a translation if you do not know the grammar (or anything) of the object language! Funny something like that should be said, but I've met people who "translated" stuff from Koine Greek with an interlinear, and they didn't know anything about Ancient or Modern Greek.
exactly!!!
thank you for the mention!!! it means a lot to me ❤
Ofc! I love my commenters :)
I am a very visual learner and I use colors when I try to break down and understand hard grammars all the time. If there was a standard way to use them so we could use the same colors to communicate the same things. (🙃 Another standardization) I would love to learn more about how you and your friend's hlossing system works. It looks super interesting!
Also side note, the music in the background is a nice touch!
That's very cool! It's exactly what he does (labels each thing with a color). This would be great in theory, but in practice, most languages have much more categories than feasibly distinguishable colors, so it could be hard to have this sort of standard, but if it helps _you_ , by all means keep doing it in your notes!
@@agodawg Thanks! I think most actually don't really like it too much, especially as loud as it had to be in this video (see the description lol) but yk. Will keep refining stuff :)
4:30 the way I think of clitics is that they are subject to syntax rather than morphology, but which join an adjacent phonological word. These can be difficult to identify, of course, and the clitic/affix distinction often remains hotly debated when describing a language.
Many others said something like this and I find it incredibly interesting. Thanks for your comment!
many thanks-- I've just been faking it till I make it 👍
We've all done it at some point!
So helpful for undergrad linguists
Would a video on syntax trees be useful?
@@Sundrobrocc for me it would lol
@@konstantinekahadze7153 cool! maybe one day :)
Another banger!
Interlinear glossing and IPA are really helpful for learning languages. I don't understand why they don't teach them more
Right?! Glossing could be a little fringe but I don't see why IPA isn't taught in schools (i.e. before university). There's literally no downsides
thank-PLUR
HAHAHA AWW
This is very cool and I'm surprised I've never heard of it.
I guess it's just a more elaborate version of word for word translation. More of a standard notation for linguists though, I don't think this is that helpful to language learners.
Yeah it's absolutely something made and used by linguists, but I've found it to be very helpful when learning languages since I'm more aware of which morphemes contribute which bits of meaning to the overall word, so I'd say there's no negatives to learning how to gloss!
Fun part is when no one can agree what abbreviation to use (I've seen several ways people have glossed perfective and imperfective)
those are the worst two. especially
the perfect vs perfective
@@SundrobroccAlso is your tag the same on RUclips as on other socials?
you make me really want to learn linguistics in university
AW why not? Even if you don't want to commit to linguistics as your entire major, it's totally possible to take some intro level classes and see if it's something you'd wanna do!
Video quality going up and up
I really hope so! I got so mad at my microphone recording this (more info in description) so hopefully I figure out what's happening lol
Tagalog MENTIONED 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭
YUHH
W cameo
onjittle
Wowie!
❤
So the video talk about suffix and prefix, isn’t it?
Things like that, yeah!
If you have one element in the object language that has several different definitions in english, do you just indicate them with a forward slash in the metalanguage? E.g., the word "dire" in Italian means "to say/tell" so would I gloss it like this: "say/tell-INF"?
I would personally pick the one that's more appropriate in the metalanguage translation, and then if needed, make a note/footnote explaining the nuance. I'd probably gloss "voglio dirti qualcosa" as so:
Voglio dir-ti qualcosa
want.1SG.PRES **tell**-2SG.DAT something
I want to tell you something
I would choose "tell" since you wouldn't say "I want to say you something" in English (the metalanguage). Then, depending on how relevant it is to what we're talking about, I could write a footnote along the lines of "dire means both 'to say and to tell'".
Again, glosses are not replacements for complete explanations, so it's not always a good idea to try fitting as much information as possible in a gloss if it's not necessary or fully relevant :)
(I don't speak Italian so let me know if this translation is off)
@@Sundrobrocc Thanks so much🙏🙏🙏
yup. another Sundro banger.
BAHAHA OML I LOVE U
heya! at 8:40 what did you use to add the diacritic to the -š morpheme?
Hey! Overleaf's XeLaTeX compiler (could be different on other platforms) supports a much wider array of unicode characters (though not anywhere near all unfortunately), so I was just able to directly input the character _š_
Lmk if you have further questions!
@@Sundrobrocc oh, thank you. i didnt know if those were implemented into latex or if it was an external program that does it, so thanks for clarifying :D
@@rokorae ofc!
Love the video, but try speaking a bit more clearly in future videos. I could not understand what language the makatktbš example comes from at all :D
Thank you and trust me I know! Look at the description :)
The language is Darija. Could also be because it's a less known language but yea!
僕はあなたのビデオを見ませんよ！😻
私はあなたを逃がしません！🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've always done some kind of glossing in my head out of boredom (with examples very similar to "maktbtš") without ever realizing that it's an actual standardized linguistical tool!! Thanks for this introduction to this process. It seems very useful not to mention how fun it is ^^
You must not be from a country where you're forced to do parsing in school for 8 years :D
@@enricobianchi4499 Thankfully not😭