You are most correct, during my 28 years military service and what I’ve witness at ranges would scare the public sector if they knew how many soldiers have a hard time qualifying with their weapon! Just because their soldiers doesn’t mean they can shot!
QUESTION: A great video topic for you: Real value of family and land vs money and personal experiences. A lot of people I know wonder why I left the big city and high paying career to buy land in rural America. People think going to work, fighting over a parking space in front of a bistro restaurant, in a manicured neighborhood is superior to having a decent piece of land/country home, access to clean water and a stand-off from neighbors. Real estate listings in the city or suburbs, show small plots are valued higher than even developed acreage, despite the fact that most of these urban locations are laced with crime and actually create anxiety and dependence on an artificial system. Our society today, will generally tell you that a 1500 foot condo or bungalow in an area with good public transportation, nice restaurants and covered parking, is much more valuable than 5 acres with a small country home. They'll also tell you that taking a vacation to a foreign country or a cruise somewhere, is building experiences that are individually more valuable than building an estate that passes on generational wealth to those who come after you and also, gives you the freedom to grow and harvest your family's food and water. In my humble opinion, somewhere along the way our value systems have been scrambled. This is not a political question, it is a question Pavlovian conditioning as opposed to traditional values. What are your thoughts?
I’m a retired cop & a veteran (Navy ‘64-‘68) but don’t care about what you weren’t. Most of us appreciate you for who you are & what you do for our 2A community now. Keep up the good work Hickcock!
Excellent talk. Even among gun owners, there are a lot of different levels of engagement in practice and differences in skill levels. I've met hunters who had a 20 round box of ammo they've been using to hunt with for years, and I've seen gun owners at the range who ask whether someone there could oil their pistol since they haven't used it in ten years. Anyone who's good at it gets that way from practicing and people only practice if they're drawn to it and can afford it or are forced to it and are given the ammo to practice with. I've never met a "natural shooter" who was good for more than a few decent shots at a time unless they started a regular practice schedule. I feel for those in uniform who want to get better and have to fund their own practice - you'd think that should be a part of what our taxes support, but it too often isn't. That said, almost anyone can afford a pistol or a rifle in .22 LR that makes it financially feasible to get a lot more practice that you can apply towards using a 9mm or other pistol caliber or most rifle calibers. You just have to do it.
I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts and knowledge of firearms, and shooting. I don't care if you are a veteran, or if you were a cop, and I am a retired LEO. Keep up the great job you're doing.
You're right on the military aspect. Depending on your branch and position, someone may only have the bare minimum of exposure to firearms: basic training and if a deployment requires qualification. From my experience, if they're at the range, they probably are just interested in firearms and building their skills.
You’re a great shot! I was an infantryman in the Army & we did a ton of shooting mostly with an M4, and belt fed machine guns but I think we only went to a pistol range once. If you’re a soldier/marine that isn’t infantry you don’t shoot that often. It’s really the job you choose within the military.
Ret AF (1988-2008). Trained at least one 8 hour day per year on rifle - less than 100 rounds per year. Got to go to range once in 1994 in Germany for handgun. That was about it. Except when we closed Zaragoza AB - got to go several days over the last year the base was open to expend tons of ammo instead of shipping it off to another base.
Yeah this is so true. People need to understand that a soldier isn't just someone that shoots guns. Shooting is a very small part of what a soldier does. A soldier has so many other tasks and jobs to do than shoot, the military doesn't want its infantry to be the absolute best shots, they have to balance everything out to be realistic and viable. They want people that are good enough at shooting, people that are good enough at learning lots of information in a set time span, people that are good enough at carrying heavy equipment over long distances and so on. The more you begin to specialise the more budget will be placed into specific things. They don't need a truck driver in a logistics division to be a grade A marksman, they don't need a special forces guy to be a grade A truck driver. They do completely different jobs, but everyone will go through basic and have that baseline skill that is necessary. I know many soldiers who aren't at all interested in guns and barely like talking about them or even know much about them. My uncle was a paratrooper and he left after 4 years because he decided it honestly wasn't for him and just really lost interest and he barely likes guns. But that's okay, people are all different and that's how life is. Things aren't all just black and white. Not every soldier is a black ops seal sniper recon marine, and decorated in medals head to toe. Some just do it for 4 years or 2 years depending on country and then leave and don't have a whole lot to say about it, you know?
As a Marine aircraft mechanic, I can personally confirm that many, if not most non-combat Marines are poor shooters. We shot once, maybe twice a year, and very few ever shot expert. In my experience, the issue seemed to be people who learned how to shoot from hunting or plinking at home and had bad habits. Ironically, the folks with no firearms experience tended to shoot pretty well by comparison.
Grew up as an enthusiast/son of an enthusiast but we didn't go out that much(more than some I'm sure). Joined the military and the type of units I were in as well as the time-frame(recession) we really shot just the minimum for qualifications and if you were any good at shooting you really didn't shoot more; the ammo went towards remedial training for those need help qualifying. I've probably shot more post-injury and with my kid in shooting sports to measure my metrics and teach him these last 2 years than my entire life being around them civilian and military.
1974,introduced to firearms Basic training,M-16,MP school,.1911,Civilian ,Corrections Academy,78. Firearms training multiple times, Safety was very important,accuracy still emphasized,practice,practice.Skills honed is the primary focus for many
You sir, are one humble individual. I don't know many, if any at all gunners may I call them that shoot half as good as you. I not only enjoy your shooting videos, but your techniques have helped me quite a bit. Thank you for the help you and John has given me. Please tell John I'm from Massachusetts and would love to buy or trade for his Gen 2 Glock 19. Stay safe. Mikey.
As a USN aircrew in the late 60's early 70's we went to the range 1 time during boot camp and qualified. As a previous shooter i was Ok and recieved high marks. then went onto NAS Millington and hooked up with a USMC E7 gunny and was allowed to qualify on various weapons. I was lucky to be able fire almost unlimited rounds in 45acp, and .308 M14/M-15(.556) By the time my training was up and I was flying as an aircrewman in SVN I was very confidnet in my abilities.
Most excellent "talk" sir. I enjoyed very much, and even enjoyed the comments, as on too many channels some folks can get downright nasty. I think they'd get a serious attitude adjustment behaving that way face to face. Police especially do get a bad rap. Just my opinion here but as I'm sure is true for all of us I've met good ones and bad ones in my 73 years on earth. Some, like you say do the job because they have a genuine desire to serve. Unfortunatley though, some are on a "power trip" and their desire is to show their power and authority over you. At first my only experiences with police would be traffic stops as when I was young I did have a "heavy right foot". I went to work for US Steel straight out of high school and came to hate it very quickly. I stayed 5 years and almost became suicidal I hated it so much. I actually applied with the Birmingham Police department at a time they were hiring. I was not hired mainly because I had a not so good work record at the steel plant. I did Interview and that was an experience. The fellow interviewing me was a personal friend of one of my supervisors! In the waiting room with a few other fellows it amazed me chatting a bit and listening to them chatting what strange "attitudes" these fellows had. I have always thanked God I was not hired, as I don't think it would have worked out. I finally managed to leave US Steel because of my Dad, who was a machinist there (almost 30 years) worked with a fellow machinst who had been there 19 years and hated the place as I did, if not worse. He opened his own Gunsmith shop and needed help. I met him and was hired. Saved my life and we worked together for 5 years, when he let me go as he was a member of the Alabama National Guard and got a full time job as an Armorer. This man had shot on the National Guard pistol team and at one time ranked 5th in the nation with the Colt .45. Luckily I was able to hired by Walker Arms Co. in Selma, Al and was there nearly 20 yeas. I still love to shoot, but now it's mostly springer air guns in my back yard. My gosh, I have really run off at thekeyboard too much. My apoligies.
As a Marine and Army Veteran who's primary job was Rifleman...I can attest to what you're saying 100%. Each time I go to a local IDPA match, 99% of the dudes in my squad are either active duty OR fellow veterans and we always joke in between stages how if it were ALL rifles, we'd be masters since we suck with pistols due to never training with them much 😅
I was a police officer. Our range qualifications were every six months and if memory serves me we generally fired 250 rounds per qualifications. Some of that was the standard shooting at paper targets from various yard lines and some was running from cover to cover shooting at various targets, some moving, some hostage situation targets, some you would pop through a door and have to decide which target was the bad guy. I got to shoot extra during the years that I was on our Emergency Response Team. It was fun. But like any group of people, police officers are no different in that there were firearms enthusiasts and those who just shot when they had to. Consequently our skill levels varied.
Short of a handfull of rates (jobs) or one collateral (extra duty) in the Navy, there's almost zero emphasis on rifle marksmanship. There is pistol quals which happen frequently due to most rates needing to stand watch on a ship, and at some shore commands, but those are annual re-certs with very lax standards. Most of my marksmanship came from after the military
Marine in mid 1960s rifle training and qualification one week at Camp Pendleton MOS 1300. In my opinion the best shots are flintlock shooters pistol or rifle. Only shot 1911 one time one mag. at rifle range. Lieutenant Colonel William W. McMillan, Jr. gave my platoon our pistol shooting lesson.
Exactly right. When I was a cop, we were lucky if we shot 200 rounds a year. I couldn't buy extra ammo to practice because we couldn't shoot our state-owned weapon off-duty.
On the law-enforcement side, I can attest that this is true. We have some people who are lifelong gun guys and were into marksmanship prior to entering police academy (there are a few of us at every agency), you have some people who have never touched a gun in their lives prior to entering police academy, and then there are those (most officers) somewhere in the middle. Except for the largest agencies, most agencies have a limited budget for ammunition and additional firearms training. Some agencies have just enough ammunition for their officers to qualify once or twice a year, and those officers are on their own when it comes to buying ammo and going to the range - some do and some don’t. Some officers are excellent marksmen, most officers qualify with no problem, and occasionally there are officers who benefit from additional training.
b. 1959. I talked to the Marines and they didn't like my color blindness and mole-like uncorrected vision - happly better than 20/20 corrected. This was post Vietnam, post Beruit . . . service was not as desireable at that time. I might have gotten in, but not for my choice. So I worked my way through a two year college and then a university going nights and, disagreeably, some day classes that my employer eventually refused. But I did get my BS. Then I went into civil service. At one point I signed the checks for 180 police men/women and battled our city council to get them the budget they wanted. Shot PPC with the local sheriff's and have the upmost respect for the police. I still have and treasure my S&W M14 .38 Spl 6" barrel with the best Bullseye spring equipped and honed SA & DA trigger ever. Though, the top shooters were ALWAYS civilians. Because they were interested and not just expending the mandated number of rounds (and many had expensive "race guns" with bull barrels, stoned/tuned actions and target sights which skewed the results a bit). BUT! 99.9% of police/sheriff duty does not and should not involve shooting. Upmost respect for these guys who walk up on a stopped car with multiple people inside (or just one), alone, at night. Or walk in on a domestic dispute (most lethal call for police) or clear a bar fight. God bless our law enforcement officers.
I've seen senior people in the military (in over 20 years) that were the worst shots ever! A lot of guys have never fired until they were in the military and that opened their eyes, so they buy some and train at home after that.
There should be no regulation on open carry or concealed carry no background checks it’s ridiculous they wanna take our guns away any regulation is too much , Abolish the ATF!!
I can confirm your observation regarding police officers. Most departments do not have the budget to constantly train their officers unless they are in a specialized unit. The vast majority of officers are not “gun people” the gun is just a tool that’s required for their job.
They sure have enough money to hide in a corner with the car running, getting all their officers military gear, and apcs. Militarization of the police and if they don't have budget funds they send low ranking goons to ticket as many people as they can.
Very true sir. I was our SWAT commander and members of our Team qualified every month b/c I had $$ in my budget for ammo, AND b/c it’s an important skill for Team members.
y0 man. Thanks for what you have done over the years. Would love to meet ya, but I'm just some dude from Idaho. My wife would love to shake your hand also. Bless you and yours. You a good dude.
I’m a Marine veteran and you are 100 percent right. I was in the air wing and the most we shot was once a year. Most of my knowledge of firearms I acquired on my own. All the handgun shooting I’ve done was outside the military with my personal handguns.
I was also in the USMC and I couldn't believe there was a real "Un'q" among the Marines unit I got to the fleet. Same as you, I learned pistol shooting after I got out on my own. The Marines gave me the foundation, that's about it
I was in the Navy during Vietnam. Except for basic training where we went to the range and shot a dozen rounds with M-1s, I didn't even handle a gun. I was not deployed to Vietnam so some sailors who went there did handle guns and Navy Seals certainly handled guns. But I would say that most sailors just did not shoot more than they did in boot camp.
Majority of people cant shoot with a darn even the ones that go to the range is something ive noticed. I truly believe its something you have or dont have. Some people just never will have it no matter how much they shoot.
Drafted for Vietnam in the late 60's, retired as a police officer after 33 years and based on my experience I believe you are very close to that 80% you spoke of. (most officers have NO knowledge of guns...when qualifying it was not uncommon to find officers with guns that had not been cleaned for several years) When I was an active PO there was an officer in our department who frequently failed his bi-annually qualification course. One year this officer failed ALL attempts to qualify, and it got to the point that (per policy) recommendation for termination was made. When the officer was given notice of possible termination he went to the media and pressure was put on the department to not terminate his employment. (This was not the first time the officer went to the media to complain when he felt he was being mistreated) He complained about his department so often that the NAACP stopped returning his calls, but the news media loved it when he would complain. When all was said and done, this officer was not terminated...think of the danger this man put his fellow officers in, not to speak of the citizens. I've even heard many people say that they will not let a gun in their house, but yet they will call police (who have guns) to help them. Little do they know many/most have problems qualifying. Just look at NYPD and the number of innocent bystanders who are shot when one of their officers are involved in a shooting.
Consistency+time= Expertise. Maybe you don't have a badge or a cert for "expert" but that only shows a brief historical moment of qualification issued by an organization. It's how you train BETWEEN THAT TIME of qualification that holds real weight to your skills as a shooter. It's simple. The more invested you are in your training, the better you will preform. With the exception of luck. That is applicable to everything. The more time invested in training.. The more likely you are going to be an excellent shot.
I know from listening to you for a while that you are not a golfer. It’s probably an even better comparison than ping pong or pocket billiards as far as practice and playing often to improve and keep skills intact. As always a great talk. Stay well. Cheers
Socks still are the best and taking some highlights back to their home, its mostly therapy what rolls terms, names and vocabulary making the best out of issue.
A good friend of mine who’s been an operator in naval special warfare. Told me one time if you wanna get pretty good at something do it a hundred times. If you wanna get get a lot better at it do it ten thousand times. If you want it to become muscle memory and be completely great at it. Do it a million times.
I have been around firearms since i was 7 years old, first time i ever went into the woods hunting with a firearm was with my brother, my second dad basically, at 8 years old and i was so excited to hold that sears and robuck 20 gauge bolt action shotgun for the first time hunting, before that I was tought how to shoot it at 7 years old so I was comfortable with it, at 7 years old it kicked at years old it kicked at 9 years old it kicked ,at 10 years old it didn't, back to the beginning here, we started out in the woods I was handed the gun so excited my brother said it's ready to go and I knew the saftey, and how to load it , but he said it's all good do not touch it JUST carry it, I said ok but what if I see somthing and we are together of course and he said we will get to that point just carry it, of course I was kinda sad right, a little discouraged , well he knew that, it was a lesson at that point, of course I'm all excited it had ammo in it at least i thought it did 😂, which he knew me better than me, of course I'm 8 years old , so we start out and walked a good ways so much I got got tired of carrying it, he said you tired yet , well yeah, it began to rain which he must have known it was going to rain after looking back, so I'm wet I'm tired and worn out, so we sat down and he said we will sit here , so at this point my mind wasn't on that excitement of the gun anymore and possibly shooting a deer for the first time, I was obviously going to be shooting a slug which I practiced with him, all prepared and all of course , so basically it's miserable at this point 😂 sitting there , but the anticipation of shooting a deer was on my mind , but a strong lesson tought here, I wasn't even holding the gun it was leaning against the tree, tired of holding it my arms worn out, from carrying the damn thing, 😂, so he grunting and making noise with the horns rattling, nothing for a little bit nothing at all , finally a few does walking threw the woods now hes hunting with a high powered rifle If i remember it was a 30-06 , so I start to say can I shoot it can I shoot it kinda loud, he says shh, be quiet, another lesson learned , the deer heard us and took off, so I felt I let him down, changed my perspective at that point I need to be quiet, remember this is my very first time hunting while "holding a firearm" , he says well we gotta wait even longer now , I said why, he said because you scared them off, another lesson learned, we are on the ground I'm soaked and I swear this was all a lesson that I never was told it was a lesson except for one thing, we'll get to that, so the gun shotgun goes back leaning against the tree, so we are sitting even longer and I'm worn down , so it gets to a point where we see more deer, so he says slowly grab the gun easy in a whisper, so I did barley all worn out, and he says hold it up to the deer but don't shoot I said OK so I'm all ready to go and he says don't shoot until you got a good clear shot you must see the whole deer and whatever is behind it and around it another lesson learned, he says do u have a clear shot, and I didn't because we were in some thick stuff, and he said we'll I'm gonna take it keep holding your gun up but don't shoot just hold it it there until I say take it down, getting my drift here folks, these were all lessons, so he gets a clear shot and shoots the deer, and it runs away, I didn't know weather he got it or not , I was kinda sad I didn't get to shoot the deer but happy one was gotten anyways after all that time we spent trying to get one all that miserable walk and rain and soaking wet 😂, he say go ahead and put the gun down we will sit here a minute before we go track it, a long minute at that, like 30 minutes, another lesson, so we go track it, he shows me the blood trail and showing me how to track it teaching me the ropes about what to look for , the rain did let up at this point but still drizzling, so we go find and shows me the first time a deer gets cut open, and of.course I'm like grossing out and he says , you wanna hunt deer you gotta know how to gut it buddy, so he said pay attention, so I did , another lesson learned, we carry back to the dirt bike we rode in on to begin with , put the deer on the back insat very uncomfortably on the gas tank as we hauled all that back to the barn , we get back to the barn, he says grab the shotgun , of course I loved holding the gun but at a worn put point I was more in tune with being more aware of anything I'd ever be aware of because it was time to unload it, he said unload it and point it over there towards the woods and cock the bolt back always told me even though I knew how , just gettingnin my head is all he was doing, another lesson, I rolled the bolt back of the shotgun, and nothing came out of the gun, and I looked at him and said , I didn't do anything I didn't take the bullets out , he looked at me and smiled ear to ear and said, somtimes in life you don't always get what you want, and I took it lightly, I was worn the hell out , and thats why I understood it, he said you did such a great job hunting with me today that the next time we go hunting you will be the one who takes the deer,i was so excited about that and I anticipated the next hunt being patient another lesson, tought me a good sense of firearm responsibility I have never forgotten till this day and low and behold I never paid attention until that point at the beginning of the hunt he had one slug and he said I'll hold onto this you just Carry that , I remember saying but don't I need that and he said no it's extra 😂.. the moral of the story is ,patience , hard work, positive anticipation, making the right shot at the right time, understanding hunting you won't always get what you want, and deer tracking, the work it takes to get one .... tought me many lessons, and all those lessons continued all the way until I was able to go out on my very own with the same gun while he hunted elsewhere when I was 13 years old, and I carry the same intentions until this very day...and will for a lifetime...
During the pandemic when ammo prices went through the roof, I largely switched over to BB pistols and rifles because the cost per round is fractions of a cent. It's possible to get decent quality CO2 gear cheap complete with rifled barrels, nice sights, etc. It's not exactly the same of course as with a real firearm with pretty much zero recoil, but it allows me to put thousands of rounds down range without breaking the bank. And maybe this sounds silly, but perhaps law enforcement or the military could do something similar? Target acquisition is still target acquisition. And sights are sights. But of course I still practice with various real firearms on occasion to not lose touch with recoil control and so forth. But some shooting to me is better than no shooting. Edit: I should add regarding accuracy, within common self-defense distances the accuracy is pretty much the same as with any other firearm. I've thought of starting my own RUclips channel to demonstrate that. Of course what you lose is distance. Definitely no sniper training with CO2 powered weapons! (Although there are some powerful, accurate pellet rifles that could be a good start.)
If I remember correctly, he was a gunslinger from the old west! True story. You can know it’s true because every time he says something that’s true, he follows it up with “ can you believe that??”.
My military service was my intro to firearms and tactics. There I was taught the basis. After that, it was up to me to decide how much I wanted to advance. If you didn’t improve, you generally weren’t enrolled in schools/advanced in rank. Anyone that tells you that they didn’t learn much while they served is because of their own choices/lack of motivation.
Not a cop or a veteran. Worked alongside Law Enforcement as EMS. In the 80s I was an RSO at out local indoor Municipal Range during a period when the local LE had not yet completed building their new Training Range. For several years they leased training time from our range. Per the agreement and our Insurance, they had to use our RSO's. I ended up competing against several of their "Top" Marksman, and not bragging, did quite better than their shooting team in impromptue matches. You're right, about 70 to 80% of the Officers in the Department were not anywhere close to being competent shooters.
Competition shooting is much different than deadly force encounters that involve shooting on the move, shooting in unorthodox positions, running, aiming behind cover, all while getting shot at. The list goes on. You can be ass on a static range and put stuff down in a dynamic range. Also what's in one agency might not be in another's. But yeah just because someone is a cop OR military doesn't mean they are great with guns.
You nailed it, depends on your service branch and MOS. I was Army Infantry, 11B. I wouldn’t expect a Sonar Tech on a submarine to be as proficient with firearms than we were. Unless like you said, they trained on their own time.
I have a friend who was retired Air Force. A few years ago, he was doing something with his gun and shot his bathroom gfci. I'm an electrician who didn't know much about guns at the time and changed the outlet thinking "that's weird" Now, I know a little more about guns and I asked him, "how did that happen?" He said "he has no idea" Ouch.
I have a Viet Nam license plate on my car. Actually the comments from people are much better than they were in 1968. People thank me for my service which is better than being ostracized by society.
I don't think that Jerry Miculek or Elmer Keith were in the military or police. I was in the military over 20 years. We only shot less than 100 rounds every couple years.
Long story short odds are the 'best' cops when it comes to firearms are likely the ones who policed warzones for at least a decade or more and survived. By simple virtue of being involved in shootouts every other day and having survived. While their techniques might not be typical for cops in quieter places it got them through some tough times.
i was navy for 10 years. people assume i shoot well because of the military. not true. i learned a lot on my own personal range time and youtube the majority of MIL/LE shooting standards is shoot twice a year, barely qualify, and not shoot your buddy. compare that to competition shooters, that's nothing.
Over the years I have met police officers who were safe, competent shots and all of them had learned how to shoot as civilians before entering the police service. I have also encountered ex military personnel who were simply not safe when handling firearms but they knew better than everyone else because they had "professional" training. The non shooting public have the misguided idea that military or police service results in some level of expertise. Strangely they don't consider ex soldiers to be road safety experts even if they did drive tanks!
One of my fellow retired Marines was an FTO at the local PD and I stopped by one day-he was holding a class for officers to learn how to clear revolvers-he said a lot of the younger ones had never dealt with anything but Glocks and had no clue how to clear a revolver at a crime scene---thought that was interesting. Also, have competed locally with LEOs-ummm, no, nice folks but not shooters! USMC 0311/8651 VERY old school shooter
Wait. What?? Hickok45 I think I saw a Yeti or Sasquatch 100 yards or so down left behind them trees. Don't know for sure but saw some movement. Make sure you packing man. 😆
My time in the Army, we hardly ever got to shoot live rounds or had much if any marksmanship "training". They were more concerned with the shine on your boots and if your uniform was ironed. I learned more about marksmanship as a kid with my pellet rifle and my Sears .22 lr single shot rifle. One time back in the 1980's they made us qualify with some kind of crappy Mickey mouse .22 lr contraption the fit in our M16A1's. If you like to shoot, I wouldn't count on the Army. It was bullshit in my opinion. Just like everything else was in the Army.
First off , you are the best Hickok 2nd , many of my friends are cops, one is very much into guns and has been a great shooter since before he became a cop, since we were kids.. the other doesn't care a bit about guns , and he is first to admit it. Hell, he came to my job site and of course i asked what are you guys carrying these days, did you go from .40 to 9mm and he didnt know, he pulls it up a tad from holster and it says 17.. i said ok you use the G 17 9mm... So both are good dudeds, not tyrants at all and what you are saying reminds me of these two guys.. The one would kick my butt in comp. and the other maybe not, but hes good with the job, and at the top of the chain now..
Sadly he’s not entirely wrong. I remember seeing people take 2 or 3 firing orders to qualify on Army ranges. We only went 1-2 times a year. Very low bar for accuracy.
I was in the academy with some people that shouldn't have been and didn't last long once they were on the streets. I don't care what anyone did in a past job, I want to know what your capabilities are now.
There's a lot of soldiers who aren't very good shooters and struggle to meet qualification standards. Marksmanship isn't necessarily the only thing that makes them a good and competent soldier.
@@rexman971 I saw it once in 2003. Several soldiers panic fired on a crowd of unarmed civilians. 2 of them have since committed suicide. I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic of marksmanship though?
As with just about anything the more you do something the better you get at that thing. So-called professionals in the military and paramilitary LEO careers may not be doing the thing much.
Next to do about is absolving an First Aid licence like you need a hold to for getting a driving licence following with absolving a self defense Class getting this licence also, thats things you need for like running a Workshop or getting throu a bad street if you need to run their.
You are older. Do you have any knowledge that young people may not be are of? Did they do gun training in school? How did that turn out? Do you think they should train children to properly use guns at a young age?
Not necessarily knowledge but, experience and that comes from spending time practicing the rules and paying attention. I did shoot targets in the high school's gun range in the basement. There was never a problem or threat with it. I've been handling firearms since the age of nine and got my first gun at that age. I bought my daughter her first firearm when she turned nine. Removing the mystery of firearms, instruction for safe handling is key but it really needs to be drilled into the mind. Teaching focus on every move you make when armed is key. Complacency kills more people than anything else, whether you're firing a pistol, running a table saw or driving a car. You have to keep your mind in gear when doing anything that has the potential to un-alive you or anyone nearby.
Dad was NYPD from 1946-1968. Once a year he went down to a spit of land called Rodman’s neck in the Bronx to qualify. Maybe a 50 round box or so. That was it. He was a marine during WW2 and was a pretty good rifle shot but he complained he couldn’t hit much with his pre model m&P.
I've said much the same, "'I'm a cop." However, I have to qualify my meaning of the term. I'm 'my cop' might work better. I make my admissions; I admit my faults etc., which then led to patrolling places like dubious hospitals, dicy corridors, or stadiums and venues in the cities where contests are won and lost (and where we keep guns out for good reason).
Just bc a person was in the Military / LE doest mean they're a GUN person. Plenty Military folks and fellow LE Officers - some of the worst shots I've ever seen. 😮😅
"I was a reserve deputy". Good. You seem like the kind of person that should be any type of law enforcement. Like your channel. Like your demeanor. Calm yet stern, obviously caring (most people don't choose to do things like that out of some diagnosed or undiagnosed mental disorder), truly FUNNY, and like GLOCKS. Figured you were anyway...
lol I knew he was a fed. The FBI and ATF probably watches the comments and puts us all on lists. Explains how he could afford the movie magic that makes him look like such an accurate shooter.
Was wondering what you thought about the secret service agent protecting Trump, that wasn't familiar with how to holster her firearm. I'm guessing they don't practice much. Maybe it was stress but, it appeared there wasn't much training.
I spent 28yrs in the Army, infantry. Your life is training. For many years, there were deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan. CQB, rifle, crew served weapons, lots of that. Yes, some handgun training. My most dangerous weapon? Radios. That is your real weapon. There are always a core group of soldiers and officers that put their own time and money into shooting for recreation. I always did that. I think I can shoot well enough to get it done if and when it is needed.
"There's hardly anything on my mind that I need to talk about..."
Heart of gold, pure at soul. I can feel it oceans away. God bless!
You are most correct, during my 28 years military service and what I’ve witness at ranges would scare the public sector if they knew how many soldiers have a hard time qualifying with their weapon! Just because their soldiers doesn’t mean they can shot!
QUESTION:
A great video topic for you:
Real value of family and land vs money and personal experiences.
A lot of people I know wonder why I left the big city and high paying career to buy land in rural America. People think going to work, fighting over a parking space in front of a bistro restaurant, in a manicured neighborhood is superior to having a decent piece of land/country home, access to clean water and a stand-off from neighbors. Real estate listings in the city or suburbs, show small plots are valued higher than even developed acreage, despite the fact that most of these urban locations are laced with crime and actually create anxiety and dependence on an artificial system.
Our society today, will generally tell you that a 1500 foot condo or bungalow in an area with good public transportation, nice restaurants and covered parking, is much more valuable than 5 acres with a small country home.
They'll also tell you that taking a vacation to a foreign country or a cruise somewhere, is building experiences that are individually more valuable than building an estate that passes on generational wealth to those who come after you and also, gives you the freedom to grow and harvest your family's food and water.
In my humble opinion, somewhere along the way our value systems have been scrambled. This is not a political question, it is a question Pavlovian conditioning as opposed to traditional values. What are your thoughts?
Just got recommended this video, didn't have any idea you had this channel. Saw Gun Grandpa and clicked as if it were the main channel!
I’m a retired cop & a veteran (Navy ‘64-‘68) but don’t care about what you weren’t. Most of us appreciate you for who you are & what you do for our 2A community now. Keep up the good work Hickcock!
It's a great treat to hear you speak sir! Thanks from some random guy!
Excellent talk. Even among gun owners, there are a lot of different levels of engagement in practice and differences in skill levels. I've met hunters who had a 20 round box of ammo they've been using to hunt with for years, and I've seen gun owners at the range who ask whether someone there could oil their pistol since they haven't used it in ten years. Anyone who's good at it gets that way from practicing and people only practice if they're drawn to it and can afford it or are forced to it and are given the ammo to practice with. I've never met a "natural shooter" who was good for more than a few decent shots at a time unless they started a regular practice schedule. I feel for those in uniform who want to get better and have to fund their own practice - you'd think that should be a part of what our taxes support, but it too often isn't. That said, almost anyone can afford a pistol or a rifle in .22 LR that makes it financially feasible to get a lot more practice that you can apply towards using a 9mm or other pistol caliber or most rifle calibers. You just have to do it.
I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts and knowledge of firearms, and shooting. I don't care if you are a veteran, or if you were a cop, and I am a retired LEO. Keep up the great job you're doing.
You're right on the military aspect. Depending on your branch and position, someone may only have the bare minimum of exposure to firearms: basic training and if a deployment requires qualification. From my experience, if they're at the range, they probably are just interested in firearms and building their skills.
You’re a great shot! I was an infantryman in the Army & we did a ton of shooting mostly with an M4, and belt fed machine guns but I think we only went to a pistol range once. If you’re a soldier/marine that isn’t infantry you don’t shoot that often. It’s really the job you choose within the military.
Ret AF (1988-2008). Trained at least one 8 hour day per year on rifle - less than 100 rounds per year. Got to go to range once in 1994 in Germany for handgun. That was about it. Except when we closed Zaragoza AB - got to go several days over the last year the base was open to expend tons of ammo instead of shipping it off to another base.
Yeah this is so true. People need to understand that a soldier isn't just someone that shoots guns. Shooting is a very small part of what a soldier does. A soldier has so many other tasks and jobs to do than shoot, the military doesn't want its infantry to be the absolute best shots, they have to balance everything out to be realistic and viable. They want people that are good enough at shooting, people that are good enough at learning lots of information in a set time span, people that are good enough at carrying heavy equipment over long distances and so on. The more you begin to specialise the more budget will be placed into specific things. They don't need a truck driver in a logistics division to be a grade A marksman, they don't need a special forces guy to be a grade A truck driver. They do completely different jobs, but everyone will go through basic and have that baseline skill that is necessary. I know many soldiers who aren't at all interested in guns and barely like talking about them or even know much about them. My uncle was a paratrooper and he left after 4 years because he decided it honestly wasn't for him and just really lost interest and he barely likes guns. But that's okay, people are all different and that's how life is. Things aren't all just black and white. Not every soldier is a black ops seal sniper recon marine, and decorated in medals head to toe. Some just do it for 4 years or 2 years depending on country and then leave and don't have a whole lot to say about it, you know?
As a Marine aircraft mechanic, I can personally confirm that many, if not most non-combat Marines are poor shooters. We shot once, maybe twice a year, and very few ever shot expert. In my experience, the issue seemed to be people who learned how to shoot from hunting or plinking at home and had bad habits. Ironically, the folks with no firearms experience tended to shoot pretty well by comparison.
Grew up as an enthusiast/son of an enthusiast but we didn't go out that much(more than some I'm sure). Joined the military and the type of units I were in as well as the time-frame(recession) we really shot just the minimum for qualifications and if you were any good at shooting you really didn't shoot more; the ammo went towards remedial training for those need help qualifying. I've probably shot more post-injury and with my kid in shooting sports to measure my metrics and teach him these last 2 years than my entire life being around them civilian and military.
1974,introduced to firearms Basic training,M-16,MP school,.1911,Civilian ,Corrections Academy,78.
Firearms training multiple times, Safety was very important,accuracy still emphasized,practice,practice.Skills honed is the primary focus for many
You sir, are one humble individual. I don't know many, if any at all gunners may I call them that shoot half as good as you. I not only enjoy your shooting videos, but your techniques have helped me quite a bit. Thank you for the help you and John has given me. Please tell John I'm from Massachusetts and would love to buy or trade for his Gen 2 Glock 19. Stay safe. Mikey.
As a USN aircrew in the late 60's early 70's we went to the range 1 time during boot camp and qualified. As a previous shooter i was Ok and recieved high marks. then went onto NAS Millington and hooked up with a USMC E7 gunny and was allowed to qualify on various weapons. I was lucky to be able fire almost unlimited rounds in 45acp, and .308 M14/M-15(.556) By the time my training was up and I was flying as an aircrewman in SVN I was very confidnet in my abilities.
Most excellent "talk" sir. I enjoyed very much, and even enjoyed the comments, as on too many channels some folks can get downright nasty. I think they'd get a serious attitude adjustment behaving that way face to face. Police especially do get a bad rap. Just my opinion here but as I'm sure is true for all of us I've met good ones and bad ones in my 73 years on earth. Some, like you say do the job because they have a genuine desire to serve. Unfortunatley though, some are on a "power trip" and their desire is to show their power and authority over you. At first my only experiences with police would be traffic stops as when I was young I did have a "heavy right foot".
I went to work for US Steel straight out of high school and came to hate it very quickly. I stayed 5 years and almost became suicidal I hated it so much. I actually applied with the Birmingham Police department at a time they were hiring. I was not hired mainly because I had a not so good work record at the steel plant. I did Interview and that was an experience. The fellow interviewing me was a personal friend of one of my supervisors! In the waiting room with a few other fellows it amazed me chatting a bit and listening to them chatting what strange "attitudes" these fellows had. I have always thanked God I was not hired, as I don't think it would have worked out.
I finally managed to leave US Steel because of my Dad, who was a machinist there (almost 30 years) worked with a fellow machinst who had been there 19 years and hated the place as I did, if not worse. He opened his own Gunsmith shop and needed help. I met him and was hired. Saved my life and we worked together for 5 years, when he let me go as he was a member of the Alabama National Guard and got a full time job as an Armorer. This man had shot on the National Guard pistol team and at one time ranked 5th in the nation with the Colt .45. Luckily I was able to hired by Walker Arms Co. in Selma, Al and was there nearly 20 yeas. I still love to shoot, but now it's mostly springer air guns in my back yard. My gosh, I have really run off at thekeyboard too much. My apoligies.
No apology necessary, in fact thank you for sharing your experiences. I personally found it very interesting.
I appreciate this, not too long winded. God bless
As a Marine and Army Veteran who's primary job was Rifleman...I can attest to what you're saying 100%.
Each time I go to a local IDPA match, 99% of the dudes in my squad are either active duty OR fellow veterans and we always joke in between stages how if it were ALL rifles, we'd be masters since we suck with pistols due to never training with them much 😅
I was a police officer. Our range qualifications were every six months and if memory serves me we generally fired 250 rounds per qualifications. Some of that was the standard shooting at paper targets from various yard lines and some was running from cover to cover shooting at various targets, some moving, some hostage situation targets, some you would pop through a door and have to decide which target was the bad guy. I got to shoot extra during the years that I was on our Emergency Response Team. It was fun. But like any group of people, police officers are no different in that there were firearms enthusiasts and those who just shot when they had to. Consequently our skill levels varied.
Short of a handfull of rates (jobs) or one collateral (extra duty) in the Navy, there's almost zero emphasis on rifle marksmanship. There is pistol quals which happen frequently due to most rates needing to stand watch on a ship, and at some shore commands, but those are annual re-certs with very lax standards. Most of my marksmanship came from after the military
No matter what you were or weren't, this fan appreciates your contribution to the 2A movement.
Great topic, and a very accurate perspective.
Marine in mid 1960s rifle training and qualification one week at Camp Pendleton MOS 1300. In my opinion the best shots are flintlock shooters pistol or rifle. Only shot 1911 one time one mag. at rifle range. Lieutenant Colonel William W. McMillan, Jr. gave my platoon our pistol shooting lesson.
Exactly right. When I was a cop, we were lucky if we shot 200 rounds a year. I couldn't buy extra ammo to practice because we couldn't shoot our state-owned weapon off-duty.
On the law-enforcement side, I can attest that this is true. We have some people who are lifelong gun guys and were into marksmanship prior to entering police academy (there are a few of us at every agency), you have some people who have never touched a gun in their lives prior to entering police academy, and then there are those (most officers) somewhere in the middle. Except for the largest agencies, most agencies have a limited budget for ammunition and additional firearms training. Some agencies have just enough ammunition for their officers to qualify once or twice a year, and those officers are on their own when it comes to buying ammo and going to the range - some do and some don’t. Some officers are excellent marksmen, most officers qualify with no problem, and occasionally there are officers who benefit from additional training.
b. 1959. I talked to the Marines and they didn't like my color blindness and mole-like uncorrected vision - happly better than 20/20 corrected. This was post Vietnam, post Beruit . . . service was not as desireable at that time. I might have gotten in, but not for my choice. So I worked my way through a two year college and then a university going nights and, disagreeably, some day classes that my employer eventually refused. But I did get my BS. Then I went into civil service. At one point I signed the checks for 180 police men/women and battled our city council to get them the budget they wanted. Shot PPC with the local sheriff's and have the upmost respect for the police. I still have and treasure my S&W M14 .38 Spl 6" barrel with the best Bullseye spring equipped and honed SA & DA trigger ever. Though, the top shooters were ALWAYS civilians. Because they were interested and not just expending the mandated number of rounds (and many had expensive "race guns" with bull barrels, stoned/tuned actions and target sights which skewed the results a bit). BUT! 99.9% of police/sheriff duty does not and should not involve shooting. Upmost respect for these guys who walk up on a stopped car with multiple people inside (or just one), alone, at night. Or walk in on a domestic dispute (most lethal call for police) or clear a bar fight. God bless our law enforcement officers.
Vancouver, Canada 😊
I've seen senior people in the military (in over 20 years) that were the worst shots ever! A lot of guys have never fired until they were in the military and that opened their eyes, so they buy some and train at home after that.
Cool Story Bro, were you a nurse?
We must all push for national constitutional open carry, I have over 30 years of experience open carrying and I know first hand that it saves lives.
There should be no regulation on open carry or concealed carry no background checks it’s ridiculous they wanna take our guns away any regulation is too much , Abolish the ATF!!
I can confirm your observation regarding police officers. Most departments do not have the budget to constantly train their officers unless they are in a specialized unit. The vast majority of officers are not “gun people” the gun is just a tool that’s required for their job.
They sure have enough money to hide in a corner with the car running, getting all their officers military gear, and apcs. Militarization of the police and if they don't have budget funds they send low ranking goons to ticket as many people as they can.
Very true sir. I was our SWAT commander and members of our Team qualified every month b/c I had $$ in my budget for ammo, AND b/c it’s an important skill for Team members.
It depends what department, some departments in the boondocks - all they do is target shoot
@@oldcop18
SEC deathsquad working in ‘asset liquidation’
@@rexman971blah blah blah
y0 man. Thanks for what you have done over the years. Would love to meet ya, but I'm just some dude from Idaho. My wife would love to shake your hand also.
Bless you and yours. You a good dude.
Same here. About half an hour south of Boise.
I’m a Marine veteran and you are 100 percent right. I was in the air wing and the most we shot was once a year. Most of my knowledge of firearms I acquired on my own. All the handgun shooting I’ve done was outside the military with my personal handguns.
>Marien
Have a crayon.
@@alastor8091 much appreciated
@@alastor8091
What’s with all these people msispleling words lately? Is it lead exposure or something?
@@Lksupasteienexperly done sir😂
I was also in the USMC and I couldn't believe there was a real "Un'q" among the Marines unit I got to the fleet. Same as you, I learned pistol shooting after I got out on my own. The Marines gave me the foundation, that's about it
I was in the Navy during Vietnam. Except for basic training where we went to the range and shot a dozen rounds with M-1s, I didn't even handle a gun. I was not deployed to Vietnam so some sailors who went there did handle guns and Navy Seals certainly handled guns. But I would say that most sailors just did not shoot more than they did in boot camp.
Majority of people cant shoot with a darn even the ones that go to the range is something ive noticed. I truly believe its something you have or dont have. Some people just never will have it no matter how much they shoot.
Drafted for Vietnam in the late 60's, retired as a police officer after 33 years and based on my experience I believe you are very close to that 80% you spoke of. (most officers have NO knowledge of guns...when qualifying it was not uncommon to find officers with guns that had not been cleaned for several years)
When I was an active PO there was an officer in our department who frequently failed his bi-annually qualification course. One year this officer failed ALL attempts to qualify, and it got to the point that (per policy) recommendation for termination was made. When the officer was given notice of possible termination he went to the media and pressure was put on the department to not terminate his employment. (This was not the first time the officer went to the media to complain when he felt he was being mistreated) He complained about his department so often that the NAACP stopped returning his calls, but the news media loved it when he would complain. When all was said and done, this officer was not terminated...think of the danger this man put his fellow officers in, not to speak of the citizens. I've even heard many people say that they will not let a gun in their house, but yet they will call police (who have guns) to help them. Little do they know many/most have problems qualifying. Just look at NYPD and the number of innocent bystanders who are shot when one of their officers are involved in a shooting.
I just assumed you served as a Periscope in the Navy.
Keeping talking champ your a voice of reason.
Consistency+time= Expertise. Maybe you don't have a badge or a cert for "expert" but that only shows a brief historical moment of qualification issued by an organization. It's how you train BETWEEN THAT TIME of qualification that holds real weight to your skills as a shooter. It's simple. The more invested you are in your training, the better you will preform. With the exception of luck. That is applicable to everything. The more time invested in training.. The more likely you are going to be an excellent shot.
I was in the field band when I was in the Marines, and I was an expert shot. This was 1971-72, and I was the baddest piccolo player in the WORLD!
I know from listening to you for a while that you are not a golfer. It’s probably an even better comparison than ping pong or pocket billiards as far as practice and playing often to improve and keep skills intact. As always a great talk. Stay well. Cheers
11:00 raise one for the ping pong guy! 🍺😅
great talk!
Socks still are the best and taking some highlights back to their home, its mostly therapy what rolls terms, names and vocabulary making the best out of issue.
Hickok45 Cleans!
We know you clean and take apart.
A good friend of mine who’s been an operator in naval special warfare. Told me one time if you wanna get pretty good at something do it a hundred times. If you wanna get get a lot better at it do it ten thousand times. If you want it to become muscle memory and be completely great at it. Do it a million times.
Some people just have a commanding presence
I'm saying both! ❤
I have been around firearms since i was 7 years old, first time i ever went into the woods hunting with a firearm was with my brother, my second dad basically, at 8 years old and i was so excited to hold that sears and robuck 20 gauge bolt action shotgun for the first time hunting, before that I was tought how to shoot it at 7 years old so I was comfortable with it, at 7 years old it kicked at years old it kicked at 9 years old it kicked ,at 10 years old it didn't, back to the beginning here, we started out in the woods I was handed the gun so excited my brother said it's ready to go and I knew the saftey, and how to load it , but he said it's all good do not touch it JUST carry it, I said ok but what if I see somthing and we are together of course and he said we will get to that point just carry it, of course I was kinda sad right, a little discouraged , well he knew that, it was a lesson at that point, of course I'm all excited it had ammo in it at least i thought it did 😂, which he knew me better than me, of course I'm 8 years old , so we start out and walked a good ways so much I got got tired of carrying it, he said you tired yet , well yeah, it began to rain which he must have known it was going to rain after looking back, so I'm wet I'm tired and worn out, so we sat down and he said we will sit here , so at this point my mind wasn't on that excitement of the gun anymore and possibly shooting a deer for the first time, I was obviously going to be shooting a slug which I practiced with him, all prepared and all of course , so basically it's miserable at this point 😂 sitting there , but the anticipation of shooting a deer was on my mind , but a strong lesson tought here, I wasn't even holding the gun it was leaning against the tree, tired of holding it my arms worn out, from carrying the damn thing, 😂, so he grunting and making noise with the horns rattling, nothing for a little bit nothing at all , finally a few does walking threw the woods now hes hunting with a high powered rifle If i remember it was a 30-06 , so I start to say can I shoot it can I shoot it kinda loud, he says shh, be quiet, another lesson learned , the deer heard us and took off, so I felt I let him down, changed my perspective at that point I need to be quiet, remember this is my very first time hunting while "holding a firearm" , he says well we gotta wait even longer now , I said why, he said because you scared them off, another lesson learned, we are on the ground I'm soaked and I swear this was all a lesson that I never was told it was a lesson except for one thing, we'll get to that, so the gun shotgun goes back leaning against the tree, so we are sitting even longer and I'm worn down , so it gets to a point where we see more deer, so he says slowly grab the gun easy in a whisper, so I did barley all worn out, and he says hold it up to the deer but don't shoot I said OK so I'm all ready to go and he says don't shoot until you got a good clear shot you must see the whole deer and whatever is behind it and around it another lesson learned, he says do u have a clear shot, and I didn't because we were in some thick stuff, and he said we'll I'm gonna take it keep holding your gun up but don't shoot just hold it it there until I say take it down, getting my drift here folks, these were all lessons, so he gets a clear shot and shoots the deer, and it runs away, I didn't know weather he got it or not , I was kinda sad I didn't get to shoot the deer but happy one was gotten anyways after all that time we spent trying to get one all that miserable walk and rain and soaking wet 😂, he say go ahead and put the gun down we will sit here a minute before we go track it, a long minute at that, like 30 minutes, another lesson, so we go track it, he shows me the blood trail and showing me how to track it teaching me the ropes about what to look for , the rain did let up at this point but still drizzling, so we go find and shows me the first time a deer gets cut open, and of.course I'm like grossing out and he says , you wanna hunt deer you gotta know how to gut it buddy, so he said pay attention, so I did , another lesson learned, we carry back to the dirt bike we rode in on to begin with , put the deer on the back insat very uncomfortably on the gas tank as we hauled all that back to the barn , we get back to the barn, he says grab the shotgun , of course I loved holding the gun but at a worn put point I was more in tune with being more aware of anything I'd ever be aware of because it was time to unload it, he said unload it and point it over there towards the woods and cock the bolt back always told me even though I knew how , just gettingnin my head is all he was doing, another lesson, I rolled the bolt back of the shotgun, and nothing came out of the gun, and I looked at him and said , I didn't do anything I didn't take the bullets out , he looked at me and smiled ear to ear and said, somtimes in life you don't always get what you want, and I took it lightly, I was worn the hell out , and thats why I understood it, he said you did such a great job hunting with me today that the next time we go hunting you will be the one who takes the deer,i was so excited about that and I anticipated the next hunt being patient another lesson, tought me a good sense of firearm responsibility I have never forgotten till this day and low and behold I never paid attention until that point at the beginning of the hunt he had one slug and he said I'll hold onto this you just Carry that , I remember saying but don't I need that and he said no it's extra 😂.. the moral of the story is ,patience , hard work, positive anticipation, making the right shot at the right time, understanding hunting you won't always get what you want, and deer tracking, the work it takes to get one .... tought me many lessons, and all those lessons continued all the way until I was able to go out on my very own with the same gun while he hunted elsewhere when I was 13 years old, and I carry the same intentions until this very day...and will for a lifetime...
A person who does anything for the love of doing it will usually surpass someone who has to do it a job requirement.
During the pandemic when ammo prices went through the roof, I largely switched over to BB pistols and rifles because the cost per round is fractions of a cent. It's possible to get decent quality CO2 gear cheap complete with rifled barrels, nice sights, etc. It's not exactly the same of course as with a real firearm with pretty much zero recoil, but it allows me to put thousands of rounds down range without breaking the bank. And maybe this sounds silly, but perhaps law enforcement or the military could do something similar? Target acquisition is still target acquisition. And sights are sights. But of course I still practice with various real firearms on occasion to not lose touch with recoil control and so forth. But some shooting to me is better than no shooting.
Edit: I should add regarding accuracy, within common self-defense distances the accuracy is pretty much the same as with any other firearm. I've thought of starting my own RUclips channel to demonstrate that. Of course what you lose is distance. Definitely no sniper training with CO2 powered weapons! (Although there are some powerful, accurate pellet rifles that could be a good start.)
If I remember correctly, he was a gunslinger from the old west! True story. You can know it’s true because every time he says something that’s true, he follows it up with “ can you believe that??”.
Us Army guys had a failproof way of knowing when a Navy guy was lying...he would start by saying "This ain't no shit..."
My military service was my intro to firearms and tactics. There I was taught the basis. After that, it was up to me to decide how much I wanted to advance. If you didn’t improve, you generally weren’t enrolled in schools/advanced in rank. Anyone that tells you that they didn’t learn much while they served is because of their own choices/lack of motivation.
Not a cop or a veteran. Worked alongside Law Enforcement as EMS. In the 80s I was an RSO at out local indoor Municipal Range during a period when the local LE had not yet completed building their new Training Range. For several years they leased training time from our range. Per the agreement and our Insurance, they had to use our RSO's. I ended up competing against several of their "Top" Marksman, and not bragging, did quite better than their shooting team in impromptue matches.
You're right, about 70 to 80% of the Officers in the Department were not anywhere close to being competent shooters.
Competition shooting is much different than deadly force encounters that involve shooting on the move, shooting in unorthodox positions, running, aiming behind cover, all while getting shot at. The list goes on. You can be ass on a static range and put stuff down in a dynamic range. Also what's in one agency might not be in another's. But yeah just because someone is a cop OR military doesn't mean they are great with guns.
You nailed it, depends on your service branch and MOS. I was Army Infantry, 11B. I wouldn’t expect a Sonar Tech on a submarine to be as proficient with firearms than we were. Unless like you said, they trained on their own time.
I have a friend who was retired Air Force. A few years ago, he was doing something with his gun and shot his bathroom gfci. I'm an electrician who didn't know much about guns at the time and changed the outlet thinking "that's weird"
Now, I know a little more about guns and I asked him, "how did that happen?" He said "he has no idea" Ouch.
I'd say darts is a good comparison. A lot of similarities where technique and repetition while removing all unnecessary movement.
I love darts
I have a Viet Nam license plate on my car. Actually the comments from people are much better than they were in 1968. People thank me for my service which is better than being ostracized by society.
I don't think that Jerry Miculek or Elmer Keith were in the military or police.
I was in the military over 20 years. We only shot less than 100 rounds every couple years.
Long story short odds are the 'best' cops when it comes to firearms are likely the ones who policed warzones for at least a decade or more and survived. By simple virtue of being involved in shootouts every other day and having survived. While their techniques might not be typical for cops in quieter places it got them through some tough times.
Good Morning 😊😊
i was navy for 10 years. people assume i shoot well because of the military.
not true. i learned a lot on my own personal range time and youtube
the majority of MIL/LE shooting standards is shoot twice a year, barely qualify, and not shoot your buddy.
compare that to competition shooters, that's nothing.
Over the years I have met police officers who were safe, competent shots and all of them had learned how to shoot as civilians before entering the police service. I have also encountered ex military personnel who were simply not safe when handling firearms but they knew better than everyone else because they had "professional" training.
The non shooting public have the misguided idea that military or police service results in some level of expertise. Strangely they don't consider ex soldiers to be road safety experts even if they did drive tanks!
Please do a review on the CZ SP-01 manual safety version
One of my fellow retired Marines was an FTO at the local PD and I stopped by one day-he was holding a class for officers to learn how to clear revolvers-he said a lot of the younger ones had never dealt with anything but Glocks and had no clue how to clear a revolver at a crime scene---thought that was interesting. Also, have competed locally with LEOs-ummm, no, nice folks but not shooters! USMC 0311/8651 VERY old school shooter
Wait. What?? Hickok45 I think I saw a Yeti or Sasquatch 100 yards or so down left behind them trees. Don't know for sure but saw some movement. Make sure you packing man. 😆
My time in the Army, we hardly ever got to shoot live rounds or had much if any marksmanship "training". They were more concerned with the shine on your boots and if your uniform was ironed. I learned more about marksmanship as a kid with my pellet rifle and my Sears .22 lr single shot rifle. One time back in the 1980's they made us qualify with some kind of crappy Mickey mouse .22 lr contraption the fit in our M16A1's. If you like to shoot, I wouldn't count on the Army. It was bullshit in my opinion. Just like everything else was in the Army.
Happy Sunday midnight.
I’m a jack of all trades, master of none.
You could tell a Corn Pop tier story and I'd tune in.
If I was a cop. I would carry a single action and levergun.
There is this bow hunter, I don't remember his name, but he said that he isn't good with the bow, he just shoots 1000 arrows a day
First off , you are the best Hickok 2nd , many of my friends are cops, one is very much into guns and has been a great shooter since before he became a cop, since we were kids.. the other doesn't care a bit about guns , and he is first to admit it. Hell, he came to my job site and of course i asked what are you guys carrying these days, did you go from .40 to 9mm and he didnt know, he pulls it up a tad from holster and it says 17.. i said ok you use the G 17 9mm... So both are good dudeds, not tyrants at all and what you are saying reminds me of these two guys.. The one would kick my butt in comp. and the other maybe not, but hes good with the job, and at the top of the chain now..
Sadly he’s not entirely wrong. I remember seeing people take 2 or 3 firing orders to qualify on Army ranges. We only went 1-2 times a year. Very low bar for accuracy.
Sight picture is the secret.
Cops in my town make over 100,000 a year with overtime .
I was in the academy with some people that shouldn't have been and didn't last long once they were on the streets. I don't care what anyone did in a past job, I want to know what your capabilities are now.
There's a lot of soldiers who aren't very good shooters and struggle to meet qualification standards. Marksmanship isn't necessarily the only thing that makes them a good and competent soldier.
Most of the time you don't see soldiers mag dumping an unarmed "enemy".
@@rexman971 I saw it once in 2003.
Several soldiers panic fired on a crowd of unarmed civilians.
2 of them have since committed suicide.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic of marksmanship though?
Who's your favorite gunsmith?
I'm from Kentucky. How can I get this translated.
That's funny.
First put some shoes on
Hypoglyfix
🤣OK that made me spray coffee everywhere lol
Hickok45 could be a security officer. There's a lot of elderly security officers.
I just want to know if you've ever had to draw your weapon in a self defense situation.
As with just about anything the more you do something the better you get at that thing. So-called professionals in the military and paramilitary LEO careers may not be doing the thing much.
Next to do about is absolving an First Aid licence like you need a hold to for getting a driving licence following with absolving a self defense Class getting this licence also, thats things you need for like running a Workshop or getting throu a bad street if you need to run their.
😂
You would have been a good squared away Marine.
i get the bed seizures every day and night. make it stop please.
You are older. Do you have any knowledge that young people may not be are of? Did they do gun training in school? How did that turn out? Do you think they should train children to properly use guns at a young age?
Not necessarily knowledge but, experience and that comes from spending time practicing the rules and paying attention.
I did shoot targets in the high school's gun range in the basement.
There was never a problem or threat with it.
I've been handling firearms since the age of nine and got my first gun at that age.
I bought my daughter her first firearm when she turned nine.
Removing the mystery of firearms, instruction for safe handling is key but it really needs to be drilled into the mind.
Teaching focus on every move you make when armed is key.
Complacency kills more people than anything else, whether you're firing a pistol, running a table saw or driving a car.
You have to keep your mind in gear when doing anything that has the potential to un-alive you or anyone nearby.
It is no one’s business.
I know of a cop that was asking me how to load a ar-15... Like we have the internet and you've been a cop for 3 decades just how.
Here's a suggestion: talk about cell phones in schools. It's timely and I'm sure you'd have some insight.
I definitely have opinions on that, as I've talked about in Sunday videos.
@@Hickok45Talks I do too. As a public school teacher, frankly, I hate phones in the schools. A big negative. Big. My opinion.
Dad was NYPD from 1946-1968. Once a year he went down to a spit of land called Rodman’s neck in the Bronx to qualify. Maybe a 50 round box or so. That was it. He was a marine during WW2 and was a pretty good rifle shot but he complained he couldn’t hit much with his pre model m&P.
I've said much the same, "'I'm a cop." However, I have to qualify my meaning of the term. I'm 'my cop' might work better. I make my admissions; I admit my faults etc., which then led to patrolling places like dubious hospitals, dicy corridors, or stadiums and venues in the cities where contests are won and lost (and where we keep guns out for good reason).
A grammar cop perhaps? 😉😇
Just bc a person was in the Military / LE doest mean they're a GUN person.
Plenty Military folks and fellow LE Officers - some of the worst shots I've ever seen. 😮😅
When you are supplied thousands of rounds for free and have your own range, you will eventually get proficient. Did Doc Holiday take shooting courses?
"I was a reserve deputy". Good. You seem like the kind of person that should be any type of law enforcement. Like your channel. Like your demeanor. Calm yet stern, obviously caring (most people don't choose to do things like that out of some diagnosed or undiagnosed mental disorder), truly FUNNY, and like GLOCKS. Figured you were anyway...
lol I knew he was a fed. The FBI and ATF probably watches the comments and puts us all on lists. Explains how he could afford the movie magic that makes him look like such an accurate shooter.
Was wondering what you thought about the secret service agent protecting Trump, that wasn't familiar with how to holster her firearm.
I'm guessing they don't practice much. Maybe it was stress but, it appeared there wasn't much training.
Hes adding Navy SEALS to his protection now.
L.I.G!
I spent 28yrs in the Army, infantry. Your life is training. For many years, there were deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan. CQB, rifle, crew served weapons, lots of that. Yes, some handgun training. My most dangerous weapon? Radios. That is your real weapon. There are always a core group of soldiers and officers that put their own time and money into shooting for recreation. I always did that. I think I can shoot well enough to get it done if and when it is needed.